Season 25 Live Feeds Discussion

[Brian Cronin]

Johnny Mac in BB17 has gone the furthest as a previously evicted HG, making the final four. Special consideration has to be made, though, for Victor, who made final five after being evicted TWICE in BB18.

Jag obviously has a very good shot at beating both now that he's eligible to win HOH again this week. 

[peachmangosteen]

Cory and America nommed. Apparently there was a bit of a fight but we didn’t get to see it.

America is now just hiding and crying in bed while Cory talks to Bowie.

I’m annoyed America is just giving up.

[peachmangosteen]

Jag was so offended by this. Like sweetie, did you expect her to thank you lol.

[Thalia]

Since the BB Lexicon came up:   Could @Nashville or someone else put up what the initials in DOR stand for?  I know it means a houseguest self-evicts, but I can never remember the words in the acronym itself.  Drives me crazy every year, even if a year like this where it hasn't come up.   

I usually end up asking here for someone to tell me.   But obviously the knowledge doesn't last and I haven't been desperate enough to have it tattooed on my forearm.  I'm afraid it would detract from my Zingbot tat. 

[perfectstorm]

America hiding and crying in bed?  Please.  That's why I'd much rather have someone like Felicia go farther than America.  Felicia is not going to win, but look at how many times she has been on the block and then she was stuck in isolation.  

[Jillibean]

32 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Cory and America nommed. Apparently there was a bit of a fight but we didn’t get to see it.

America is now just hiding and crying in bed while Cory talks to Bowie.

I’m annoyed America is just giving up.

She feels guilty. She thinks it's her fault Cory is going. In reality, I don't think what she said to Blue mattered much at all. Jag told Matt last week that if he couldn't get Blue out he had to go after Cory, and once Blue won veto he knew he had to shift his target. Anything he says about why he made the decision is clearly just rationalization for a move he knew he needed to make. He's given his allies like sixteen reasons, some of which directly contradict each other ("they do nothing, "they're running the game," "they're too paranoid," "they're too comfortable."). Just say you're a threat, we had to get you before you got us. That's the truth. 

Honestly though, if America is going to just walk around and curse people out while wearing sunglasses for a week and a half, that might be kind of fun also. 

I actually do think Jag wants America out and not Cory, especially now that she's showing him "disrespect".He had already dropped some hints earlier this week, saying she's better at comps. But I don't think the ladies are going to oblige him. 

Finally, Jag, don't go to someone's boyfriend and tell him that her behavior isn't acceptable to you. 1) You just blindsided her. She told you to eff off. Absorb the blow.  2) That's gross. She makes her own choices and it's not Cory's job to answer for her or tell her to choose differently. 

Jag is really not having a great decent human week. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Jillibean

[30 Helens]

6 hours ago, Gummo said:

Can we just ban all that when someone's evicted? They used to have to leave immediately after the vote. Now, every single person has to get a hug and some evictees -- *cough*Mecole*cough* -- even get to give speeches on the way out.

No, once you're evicted, you're dead to the house and you have to get out as quickly as possible. 

Trapdoor opens, evicted HG falls through, lands in the netherverse. Done.

[Lady Calypso]

Felicia came by to give America a pep-talk, which was sweet. It's obviously jury management on her end/planting the seeds to get America on her side and not Jag/Matt/Blue's, but it was a nice moment, telling America to feel how she feels but pick herself back up before the end of the night.

Which is true; America is 100% allowed to feel how she feels (and her telling Jag to fuck off because he wants to ease HIS guilt and she didn't want to give that satisfaction to him was gold) but she is still in a game, so she can't mope forever. But since she just got blindsided an hour ago, I think she has every right to just feel everything.

Meanwhile, Cory's already campaigning which is how HE deals with being blindsided, and that is perfectly acceptable too.

[Nashville]

31 minutes ago, Thalia said:

Since the BB Lexicon came up:   Could @Nashville or someone else put up what the initials in DOR stand for?  I know it means a houseguest self-evicts, but I can never remember the words in the acronym itself.  Drives me crazy every year, even if a year like this where it hasn't come up.   

I usually end up asking here for someone to tell me.   But obviously the knowledge doesn't last and I haven't been desperate enough to have it tattooed on my forearm.  I'm afraid it would detract from my Zingbot tat. 

Thought DOR was already in there 

- but it wasn’t

- but it is now. 😉

https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/10081-big-brother-lexicon-bb-doublespeak/?do=findComment&comment=8178094

 

[Brian Cronin]

14 minutes ago, Jillibean said:

Anything he says about why he made the decision is clearly just rationalization for a move he knew he needed to make.

Even there, he's so sloppy that he even specifically said that in the case of Blue winning POV, he'd put up Cirie. In other words, the dude just makes waaaaay too many plans and they're all contradictory of each other. Just pick a fucking lane, dude! Even now, he's, like, "Okay, maybe we get America out instead." :D 

[kellog010]

I get why America feels betrayed. She thought Jag was her actual friend and he blindsided her. She always knew they would get put together but this feels personal to her. 

[LeDucDiableBleu]

While Matt, Jag, Blue, Felicia and Bowie were celebrating in the Have Not room after the ceremony, Cirie comforted America, gave her hugs and said she was there if she needed to talk. America asked if Cirie knew beforehand and Cirie said "I was told last night but I didn't believe it" which was a lie lol. Then America said "I know you had nothing to do with it." So Cirie was working her game, too. Then right after that Felicia came out and gave a pep talk to America. I thought both Cirie & Fe pulled that off flawlessly. Even just for working with her after this eviction, not even necessarily for jury votes.

[Thalia]

I kind of love this point in the season where they suddenly realize they have to start voting out their allies.   All the nonentities (to them) and villains are gone.   Everybody always seems so surprised. 

Now Matt is mad because America hasn't come to talk to him.   Cory on the other hand was very "respectful."   Arrrrrgh.  The men this season have been the worst.  They talk over the women and then get on their high horse if the little wimmonfolk disagree with them.  Oh well, it is bad every year when it comes to this.  

@Nashville -- Thankee kindly!

[Brian Cronin]

6 minutes ago, Thalia said:

Now Matt is mad because America hasn't come to talk to him.   Cory on the other hand was very "respectful."   Arrrrrgh. 

Oooooph, right?

[Nashville]

3 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

10 minutes ago, Thalia said:

Now Matt is mad because America hasn't come to talk to him.   Cory on the other hand was very "respectful."   Arrrrrgh. 

Oooooph, right?

Did Matt’s ego inflate along with his jowls?

[kellog010]

I think an America and Felicia F2 is all I can stomach at this point. 

[peachmangosteen]

I thought Felicia did a much better job with her obviously jury vote related pep talk to America than Cirie did. I guess after seeing Cirie play the same game 7 times it just doesn't really work anymore. Which is how these people should be thinking but what are you gonna do, they're all idiots lol.

Put it in the Louvre.

Then do it bitch! Like please! I want to be entertained! If she's just gonna threaten to say/do stuff all week but never actually do it then I'm gonna so so annoyed.

Rolling!

[Brian Cronin]

I said before I thought that this was TOO big of a move, and, well, I still think it is too big of a move. :) He's just too damn sloppy. Just put Cory up and out, now he wants America out, and he can't do it because Felicia/Cirie/Blue will never vote out America over Cory. You done played yourself, Jag.

That said, due to this stupid twist, he and Matt will probably just win back to back for the next few weeks anyways. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Brian Cronin

[Yogisbooboo64]

Wasn't Jag all uncomfortable last night before the re-noms, when he walked by America while she was in the bathroom hoping to talk to him?

At any rate I see you, Cory....letting America blow up while you stay in the corner Cirie style....I hope he's the one that gets evicted instead.

[Brian Cronin]

Now I know why Jag had so many majors in school, the dude can't pick a fucking lane!

[30 Helens]

1 hour ago, LeDucDiableBleu said:

I thought both Cirie & Fe pulled that off flawlessly. Even just for working with her after this eviction, not even necessarily for jury votes.

They have said they would like to form an alliance with Blue and America once Cory is gone. Blue won’t go for it because she’s too male-focused, but good on them for trying.

1 hour ago, kellog010 said:

I think an America and Felicia F2 is all I can stomach at this point. 

I would actually love this, in a never-gonna-happen kind of way.

[LeDucDiableBleu]

I give props to Cory immediately campaigning and gaming. I wish he would have been like this the whole time. He took his foot off the gas so much when he got caught up in the showmance he didn't even want.

[choclatechip45]

I think it's hilarious this is a mess of Jag's own making. You didn't have to tell America or Cory you won HOH!

[Skooma]

2 hours ago, inandout said:

America hiding and crying in bed?  Please.  That's why I'd much rather have someone like Felicia go farther than America.  Felicia is not going to win, but look at how many times she has been on the block and then she was stuck in isolation.  

Totally.  America has had a free ride in the game.  Now when she is the pawn she is acting out so bad she is turning herself into the target  She is a really REALLY poor player.

Hey, America.  It is a game.  Play it and don't whine.

2 hours ago, kellog010 said:

I get why America feels betrayed. She thought Jag was her actual friend and he blindsided her. She always knew they would get put together but this feels personal to her. 

Because why?  She didn't think a "couple" wouldn't be targeted together?  She thought Jag was playing for her and not himself?

The only thing I complain about here is why the hell did it take so long to put a "couple" up on the damn block together?  She has wishy washy Jag to thank for saving her constantly.  

Anyhow if Cory is still playing the game and she is whining like a baby of course she can go out now.  Instead of getting in with Felicia and Cirie and "playing the f-ing game" she is all poor poor me.  Haven't done anything.  Haven't won anything.  Jag and Cory were suppose to just hand me the $750,000.  Serves her right if she goes out.  She chose to showmance the game and not play.  Good riddance.

I want Cory out but honestly he at least is still trying to play.  She just has been coasting the whole time doing nothing.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Skooma

[pennben]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

 

I thought Felicia did a much better job with her obviously jury vote related pep talk to America than Cirie did. I guess after seeing Cirie play the same game 7 times it just doesn't really work anymore.

 

If this was the first work this week that Cirie did after she knew, I’d agree. However, she’s been working on America for a few days.  Psychopath that she is😂

[kellog010]

The real reason they can't get rid of Felicia is these houseguest would die of food poisoning. She has cleaned out and sanitized the kitchen and pantry areas from grossness.

[Thalia]

In storage room cleaning out the refrigerator.

Matt:  What is tofu? Cheese? 

Felicia:  I don't know.   Matt then asks Cirie.

Cirie:  I don't know what tofu is. 

America has been in bed with the covers over head now forever.   I know Jag is her friend, but at this point he's friends with all the remaining houseguests.   America, you've been voting people out all summer.  I promise you, they didn't like it either but it is the game.  And you haven't won ONE DAMN COMP. 

Being pretty and nice (mostly being pretty) will take you far in life, but they have their limits in the BB house. 

ETA 

America:  if he thinks the "fuck off" is disrespectful, then he hasn't heard anything yet. 

Cory:  as your ally I must advise you against this.  I don't want you to have any regrets leaving here this week.  (Emphasis added) and you know he won't fight back.

America:  I know he'll just sit there with those dopey-ass eyes.  The fucking loser.

And then, LOL, Cory just told her he feels he's been holding her back this season so she should what she wants.  Of course, he won't join in. --- in other words, feel free to blow up your own game, but don't expect me to blow up mine or publicly back you up or anything, K? 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Thalia

[Michichick]

1 hour ago, Skooma said:

The only thing I complain about here is why the hell did it take so long to put a "couple" up on the damn block together? 

It didn’t take until now to put up a couple. Cory put up Jared and Blue.

[Gemma Violet]

3 hours ago, choclatechip45 said:

I think it's hilarious this is a mess of Jag's own making. You didn't have to tell America or Cory you won HOH!

IKR.  If I was Jag, I wouldn't have told a soul, not even Matt.  And then I'd nom Cory and America and everyone would figure Blue was the HOH.  Heck, a lot of them were thinking that already.  The noms would have solidified their belief.  I previously didn't care if Jag won or lost, but now I'm hoping he loses because someone that clueless doesn't deserve to win.  He had this huge advantage dumped in his lap and he wasted it.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Gemma Violet

[pennben]

3 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

said before I thought that this was TOO big of a move, and, well, I still think it is too big of a move. :) He's just too damn sloppy. Just put Cory up and out, now he wants America out, and he can't do it because Felicia/Cirie/Blue will never vote out America over Cory. You done played yourself, Jag.

Yep. Jag ceded all power to the voters this week. I didn’t see the flaw before & understood his thinking, but you were correct in identifying another big whoops, in a series of big whoops this week. 

[TimWil]

I can’t decide what I’d rather see (and I realize this is Fantasyland): Cory blowing up Cirie’s game by outing her as Jared’s mom during his live on TV speech to the HGs or for him to whisper the info in Jag’s ear as he heads out the door. I suppose the latter would be more fun from a game perspective. Jag would assume Blue and Felicia knew about the familial relationship and he, Matt, America and Bowie Jane would then unite in getting all three of them out one by one.

Edited October 17, 2023 by TimWil

[Mamababy600]

6 hours ago, Jillibean said:

She feels guilty. She thinks it's her fault Cory is going. In reality, I don't think what she said to Blue mattered much at all. Jag told Matt last week that if he couldn't get Blue out he had to go after Cory, and once Blue won veto he knew he had to shift his target. Anything he says about why he made the decision is clearly just rationalization for a move he knew he needed to make. He's given his allies like sixteen reasons, some of which directly contradict each other ("they do nothing, "they're running the game," "they're too paranoid," "they're too comfortable."). Just say you're a threat, we had to get you before you got us. That's the truth. 

Honestly though, if America is going to just walk around and curse people out while wearing sunglasses for a week and a half, that might be kind of fun also. 

I actually do think Jag wants America out and not Cory, especially now that she's showing him "disrespect".He had already dropped some hints earlier this week, saying she's better at comps. But I don't think the ladies are going to oblige him. 

Finally, Jag, don't go to someone's boyfriend and tell him that her behavior isn't acceptable to you. 1) You just blindsided her. She told you to eff off. Absorb the blow.  2) That's gross. She makes her own choices and it's not Cory's job to answer for her or tell her to choose differently. 

Jag is really not having a great decent human week. 

What does he expect at this point. He's been responsible for blind siding or influencing the HOH multiple times???🤣🤣

[choclatechip45]

59 minutes ago, TimWil said:

I can’t decide what I’d rather see (and I realize this is Fantasyland): Cory blowing up Cirie’s game by outing her as Jared’s mom during his live on TV speech to the HGs or for him to whisper the info in Jag’s ear as he heads out the door. I suppose the latter would be more fun from a game perspective. Jag would assume Blue and Felicia knew about the familial relationship and he, Matt, America and Bowie Jane would then unite in getting all three of them out one by one.

That would mean Cory knows Cirie is Jared's mom which I don't think he does. 

[30 Helens]

4 hours ago, choclatechip45 said:

I think it's hilarious this is a mess of Jag's own making. You didn't have to tell America or Cory you won HOH!

Of course he had to tell them. Because he is a Loyal Person who Plays With Integrity. Jag has always wanted to be seen as this honorable player who does things the “right” way, never deceiving, never backstabbing. Kind of like Hisam, but without the weird aggressive energy.

But then he also wants to be seen as a strategic mastermind who is one step ahead of everyone else and will not be taken for a fool.

It’s this dichotomy that causes him to rationalize every move— He’s not backstabbing an ally! Cory is a sneaky snake who brought it on himself!— so he can keep his honorable self-image alive.

Now, I’m not faulting Jag for making a game move. That’s what he’s here for. But I do fault him for not owning up to it. I’ve always thought Jag was a nice person, but it’s this kind of wishy-washy gameplay that has kept me from respecting him as a player. If it comes down to Matt and Jag at the end, I will be rooting for Matt. But I’m still holding out hope for another option. (Not Blue.)

[30 Helens]

22 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

That would mean Cory knows Cirie is Jared's mom which I don't think he does. 

Agreed. I know there has been speculation because Cory mentioned the Loved Ones Visit. But I think that is just coincidence, and him looking for more Survivor insider info, as he often does with Cirie. Superfan that he is, there is no reason for Cory to remember every loved one who has ever stepped onto that beach. (Unless they get a little overly demonstrative, like Rupert and his wife. Get a room! Or a cabana!) I have seen that episode with Cirie and Jared at least twice, and I had no recollection of him until I read that he was the one who visited and I rewatched it on YouTube. 

Besides, if Cory had this kind of info, wouldn’t he share it with America? I think he would. He shares everything else. Including things I don’t want to know about.

[choclatechip45]

1 minute ago, 30 Helens said:

Agreed. I know there has been speculation because Cory mentioned the Loved Ones Visit. But I think that is just coincidence, and him looking for more Survivor insider info, as he often does with Cirie. Superfan that he is, there is no reason for Cory to remember every loved one who has ever stepped onto that beach. (Unless they get a little overly demonstrative, like Rupert and his wife. Get a room! Or a cabana!) I have seen that episode with Cirie and Jared at least twice, and I had no recollection of him until I read that he was the one who visited and I rewatched it on YouTube. 

Besides, if Cory had this kind of info, wouldn’t he share it with America? I think he would. He shares everything else. Including things I don’t want to know about.

Plus the memorable Cirie family visit is from her first season with her husband. I don't even think Jared looks the same from his visit which makes sense since it was awhile ago.

[Skooma]

1 hour ago, TimWil said:

I can’t decide what I’d rather see (and I realize this is Fantasyland): Cory blowing up Cirie’s game by outing her as Jared’s mom ...

He does NOT know that  at all.

34 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

That would mean Cory knows Cirie is Jared's mom which I don't think he does. 

Totally.  And 30 Helens explained in detail why.   He asks Cirie everything about Survivor endlessly.  He didn't get the connection in the visit. 

And I agree totally if he had he'd spill the beans to America and also he'd do endless talks to the camera about his super duper secret.  He hasn't.  He is totally completely 100% ignorant of the connection.  Period.

So can we finally lay this false rumor to rest.

[pennben]

Cory/America on hammock. He’s explaining to her that he doesn’t want her to regret her decision to leave over him. I’m assuming she’s not going to drop out. I’m assuming they know they aren’t decider’s, unless he’s trying to push her…..

I’d like these two to get a few more year’s under belt & try again….individually.
Regardless, want to see whoever stays game open up for a bit here. God bless ‘em, but they were both interesting players individually, lost as a couple. 

[30 Helens]

Cirie and Blue talk about who will give them a better chance against Matt and Jag, Cory or America? They think maybe America, because the remaining comps should be mostly mental and she is very smart. They wonder who Bowie will turn to now— I guess they bought into Mecole’s parting message?

Later, Blue talks to Bowie. She says Cory disrespected her, and always referred to her as just “a number”. Bowie says she’s not surprised, but she seems a little unsettled by this.

Bowie tries to catch America for a talk, but she stomps past on her way to DR. She tells Bowie she’s fine, but she’s clearly still very, very pissed. This is not a good look on her, and she really needs to get over it if she wants any chance at all.

Cory does a soliloquy in the backyard, as he plays a solitary game of pool. He says he’s a superfan who came to win. He didn’t expect a showmance, but then he got greedy and thought he could have it all. He really cares about America and is uncomfortable campaigning against her. He doesn’t know about the votes. But he thinks he has Cirie and Felicia. He has to believe that, otherwise it’s a lost cause. He is unhappy to be nominated, but he can’t be mad about it. After all, he was planning to do the same to Jag and Matt next week if he had the chance.

[30 Helens]

America joins Cory for a passive-aggressive game of pool. He says the only thing that annoys him about this is, Jag could have just told him. Just minutes before VC, Jag asked him if he should put up Matt. There was no need for that, other than theatrics. But Cory shrugs it off. Not America. Jag’s been against theatrics all season, so why now?

America says she’ll feel better tomorrow. Will you? Cory asks. Do you still want to win? “Do you?” America asks with a pointed look. I guess they’re both hoping the other will just roll over?

[30 Helens]

Felicia and Cirie discuss their options. Cory might be better on physical comps (slip and slide!) but can they trust him? He told Felicia that he would like a F3 with her and Cirie. Felicia is just looking forward to getting some mental comps, because that’s where she will shine.

Definitely— especially if those mental comps involve counting seconds, or making up 18-letter words.

[30 Helens]

Lots of talk about who Cirie and Felicia will put up when they win and how people will vote in various scenarios. (Please, ladies. Cart here, horse there.)

Brief diversion for a recitation of How Much They Hate Bowie Jane, Chapter 10, and then they finally seem to settle on keeping America as the more trustworthy choice. At least for now.

Nightly Reilly mention! 

[Brian Cronin]

58 minutes ago, 30 Helens said:

Brief diversion for a recitation of How Much They Hate Bowie Jane, Chapter 10, and then they finally seem to settle on keeping America as the more trustworthy choice. At least for now.

 

It's nice that they're at least nominally debating it, but, I mean, come on, right? Was there every any doubt? There actually is something to be said about wanting Cory as a shield or as someone to go after Jag/Matt, but, well, come on, dude got our her son, Cirie isn't letting that go by. 

 

1 hour ago, 30 Helens said:

Just minutes before VC, Jag asked him if he should put up Matt.

Now that? THAT is some straight up psycho shit right there. 

[Jillibean]

11 hours ago, pennben said:

If this was the first work this week that Cirie did after she knew, I’d agree. However, she’s been working on America for a few days.  Psychopath that she is😂

Cirie has been planning to pick up America when Cory went out for at least a couple of weeks. She knew Sunday night that the way Jag was doing this was a nightmare for him politically, and she also knew that would work to her advantage. 

7 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

Now, I’m not faulting Jag for making a game move. That’s what he’s here for. But I do fault him for not owning up to it. I’ve always thought Jag was a nice person, but it’s this kind of wishy-washy gameplay that has kept me from respecting him as a player. If it comes down to Matt and Jag at the end, I will be rooting for Matt. But I’m still holding out hope for another option. (Not Blue.)

It's also less the move and more the way he executed the move. People will forgive game moves, but they become bitter when it feels personal. There were several ways Jag could have done this that wouldn't have lost him America entirely as either a potential number of a jury vote. 

6 hours ago, pennben said:

Regardless, want to see whoever stays game open up for a bit here. God bless ‘em, but they were both interesting players individually, lost as a couple. 

What's interesting to me is that Cirie and Jared actually started lumping them together as early as the Reilly vote, for the purpose of scapegoating them for Cirie's moves. Everyone was under the impression that it was "Cory and America" who had decided Reilly would go, Hisam would go, Jag would go, etc--that Cirie really did try to flip the votes to keep them but "Cory and America" wouldn't allow it. And at the beginning of that narrative they didn't know each other well and weren't actually a duo, let alone a duo of swing votes as they were portrayed. They've both clocked that they were perceived as a pair long before they truly were, but I don't think either ever quite figured out the specific reason it happened. Regardless, it almost became like a self fulfilling prophecy. Everyone talking about them as a pair pushed them closer together, at which point they realized they had a genuine connection. 

I'm not sure I buy into the narrative that either could have done significantly better without the other. Overall I think America is better at reading the house and getting key information, and Cory is better at political maneuvering. But they also both have key weaknesses that the other balanced a bit--America is a chaos child who easily could have gotten herself blown up out of this game, and Cory does way too much, doesn't read social dynamics particularly well, and spirals when he's anxious, all of which could have taken him out a lot sooner if she hadn't been grounding him and distracting him.  

The making out all over the house was a socially tone deaf move, but I also don't think it's what eventually got (one of) them booted. I think if Blue hadn't won that veto, she'd be gone this week. 

I think when Cory becomes privy to the knowledge that Jared is Cirie's son, he's going to realize how little he was on top of things from the very beginning. 

[pennben]

From overnight:

https://twitter.com/ToomsBB_/status/1714175829918576794/video/1

Guys, he knows  

 

 

[Skooma]

1 hour ago, pennben said:

From overnight:

https://twitter.com/ToomsBB_/status/1714175829918576794/video/1

Guys, he knows  

 

I read that link and there is no indication he knows about Jared at all there.  Just the other two.  That's pretty strongly clear from the wording.  So, no, he doesn't know.

Or put another way he is facing eviction.  IF he actually knew he would be using that info with Cirie to try and work a deal to save himself.  He didn't because he is clueless about Jared.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Skooma

[peachmangosteen]

Quote

Bowie tries to catch America for a talk, but she stomps past on her way to DR. She tells Bowie she’s fine, but she’s clearly still very, very pissed. This is not a good look on her, and she really needs to get over it if she wants any chance at all.

No! Let her stay bitter forever! Let her tell people to their faces! Let's bring back old school BB!

Quote

Brief diversion for a recitation of How Much They Hate Bowie Jane ...

Felicia and Cirie's hate for Bowie is so weird. It's WAY too much. I guess maybe they were doing the 'make this person out to be horrible so we won't feel bad about betraying and lying to them' thing right away with her and since she never got evicted it just became huge. But they also 'hate' America and the contrast between how they treated her yesterday and how they treated Bowie after they themselves flat out betrayed her is so stark. I think they just genuinely hate Bowie and I find that strange lol.

[Nashville]

46 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

No! Let her stay bitter forever! Let her tell people to their faces! Let's bring back old school BB!

Felicia and Cirie's hate for Bowie is so weird. It's WAY too much. I guess maybe they were doing the 'make this person out to be horrible so we won't feel bad about betraying and lying to them' thing right away with her and since she never got evicted it just became huge. But they also 'hate' America and the contrast between how they treated her yesterday and how they treated Bowie after they themselves flat out betrayed her is so stark. I think they just genuinely hate Bowie and I find that strange lol.

Well…with Guyana, F&C currently have multiple avenues of emotional manipulation available for them to leverage and exploit - her relationship with Cory, her antipathy towards Jag, etc.  Maybe their Bowie bile is simply due to the fact they don’t have any leverage whatsoever on her…?

[Nashville]

(Not to mention that Bowie making F&C Block buddies last week probably didn’t improve their dispositions overmuch….)

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, Jillibean said:

It's also less the move and more the way he executed the move. People will forgive game moves, but they become bitter when it feels personal. There were several ways Jag could have done this that wouldn't have lost him America entirely as either a potential number of a jury vote. 

Pretty much this is how I feel. There's a reason why blindsides in the jury phase rarely go well. Blindsides in pre-jury make sense; you piss someone off, who cares? They won't be in jury. But it's the way Jag went about it where I think America has every right to be pissed off. Had Jag just embraced the invisible part of the HOH, he wouldn't be in this mess. If he hadn't run around, telling over half the house about him being HOH, including Cory/America before even Bowie, he wouldn't be in this mess. If he had been upfront to Cory/America before the ceremony, he wouldn't be in this mess.

The move's fine; someone had to make the first move and America even admitted it multiple times that she was going to put Jag/Matt up anyway. She's not salty about that. But Cory/America said it last night; it's the way Jag went about the blindside that made it feel more personal than game.

And with the way Jag is trying to ease his guilt by jumping in on Blue/Matt's bash session on Cory/America, I don't think they're wrong to feel that way. Jag's a good guy, he will work it out with Cory/America outside of the house, but currently, he's lost at least one vote, and he needs four to win. Jag was already in a losing position, but this move likely just lost one of the very few locked votes he had.

That's why jury management is the number 1 or number 2 most important aspect of Big Brother. Playing a strategic game doesn't mean shit if you have shit jury management. This is how we've seen people like Tyler and Paul lose the game.