S04.E05: ...been to New Jersey

[dubbel zout]

On a school trip to New York, Devi discovers that college may be scarier than she thought, Eleanor faces disappointment, and Fabiola remains tight-lipped.

[dubbel zout]

I like that Devi called Paxton to apologize. She was a judgy brat to him. And he was right that college isn't for everyone.

I know Juilliard was probably Eleanor's first choice, but it's not for everyone either. Sometimes your second or third choice turn out to be your dream school. And frankly, after your first job, no one gives a rat's ass where you went to college unless it's another alum (or a conference rival, hee).

Nalini and Andres make an alarmingly good-looking couple.

[I Want My MBTV]

38 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I know Juilliard was probably Eleanor's first choice, but it's not for everyone either. Sometimes your second or third choice turn out to be your dream school. And frankly, after your first job, no one gives a rat's ass where you went to college unless it's another alum (or a conference rival, hee).

For acting especially no one is going to care what college or any college at all.  Most successful actors didn't go to college.  

I was so confused by the setup on the trip it looked like all the kids were staying in one hotel room with 2 large beds? 

 

[possibilities]

1 hour ago, I Want My MBTV said:

I was so confused by the setup on the trip it looked like all the kids were staying in one hotel room with 2 large beds? 

 

Yeah, that was really confusing to me, too. 

[Samwise979]

I think it was supposed to be a joke about how cheap the school is? (Or maybe not how cheap they are but, how much they can't afford)

[Paloma]

On 6/9/2023 at 7:35 PM, dubbel zout said:

I know Juilliard was probably Eleanor's first choice, but it's not for everyone either. Sometimes your second or third choice turn out to be your dream school.

Both things are true, and even if you go to your dream school it may turn out to be not what you expected and/or too stressful. My daughter was in Juilliard's Dance Division, and with only 18-26 students admitted each year, the demands were too much for some. It was a good fit for my daughter, but about 10-15% drop out or are asked to leave before graduation.

On 6/9/2023 at 8:16 PM, I Want My MBTV said:

For acting especially no one is going to care what college or any college at all.  Most successful actors didn't go to college.  

I'm not sure that's true. Although there are probably plenty of working actors who didn't go to college or didn't go to a performing arts school, going to Juilliard or another conservatory definitely gives actors, musicians, and dancers an edge in getting jobs. Part of it has to do with the talent needed to get in, part of it has to do with the specialized and intensive training you get there, and part of it has to do with the connections that the administration and teachers help you make. There have been many successful actors from Juilliard, including (to name just a few, in no particular order) Laura Linney, Jessica Chastain, Adam Driver, Oscar Isaac, Anthony Mackie, Viola Davis, Mandy Patinkin, Patti LuPone, Christine Baranski, and Wendell Pierce. 

Bringing all this back to Eleanor, it was clear that while she may have sufficient talent for school shows and local theater, it's unlikely she will make it big or even be able to make a living as an actor. As disappointing as her audition was, it's better to find out when you are still young enough to find another path to fulfill your dreams. 

[dubbel zout]

13 hours ago, Paloma said:

Bringing all this back to Eleanor, it was clear that while she may have sufficient talent for school shows and local theater, it's unlikely she will make it big or even be able to make a living as an actor. As disappointing as her audition was, it's better to find out when you are still young enough to find another path to fulfill your dreams. 

Jjust because Juilliard turned Eleanor down doesn't mean she doesn't have sufficient talent. Would you not go to college because Harvard turned you down? Unlikely; you'd find another school. That's one of the biggest problems with getting so caught up in applying to "name" schools.

And even with a lot of talent, you need a lot of good luck.

[twoods]

I always thought that you needed to interview with an alumni for an Ivy college application, but you can opt out of it and won’t be penalized. I was waiting for Devi to have an interview, but maybe meeting with the admissions advisor during the college fair was enough for the writers.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Jjust because Juilliard turned Eleanor down doesn't mean she doesn't have sufficient talent. Would you not go to college because Harvard turned you down? Unlikely; you'd find another school. That's one of the biggest problems with getting so caught up in applying to "name" schools.

And even with a lot of talent, you need a lot of good luck.

I agree but I also think the show has been saying she’s doesn’t have sufficient talent. I’d like it if they proved me wrong but I have felt the show played Eleanor’s dreams and talent off as a joke. 

On 6/9/2023 at 4:35 PM, dubbel zout said:

 

I like that Devi called Paxton to apologize. She was a judgy brat to him. And he was right that college isn't for everyone.

 

I have mixed feelings on this. She was sanctimonious in her approach and he is right that college isn’t for everyone but they wrote him leaving because he couldn’t handle being a small fish in a big pond. She could have been less judgmental but, unless there is something we haven’t seen yet, I think Devi was right. He didn’t even try. 

Overall the show’s take on college is very weird to me.  

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Dani said:

I agree but I also think the show has been saying she’s doesn’t have sufficient talent. I’d like it if they proved me wrong but I have felt the show played Eleanor’s dreams and talent off as a joke. 

I too saw Eleanor's dreams of being a professional actor as unrealistic. Since Mindy and the other show writers are working in the field of performance, I think their portrayal of Eleanor is informed by their own observations of the field of entertainment having an incredibly high failure rate for those who try to enter that field professionally.

 

3 hours ago, Dani said:

Overall the show’s take on college is very weird to me. 

It may be a weird take on college, but none of the outside-the-norm college experiences portrayed in the show are rare either — based on my own experiences: as a college student, as the parent of college students, and as a college-prep high school librarian and as a college librarian.
Wikipedia says Mindy Kaling is a Dartmouth graduate, so she seems to have followed a more traditional college path, but I'm sure she knows many who didn't, and likely other show writers had non-traditional college experiences themselves from which to mine stories for the show's scripts.

Edited June 12, 2023 by shapeshifter

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

It may be a weird take on college, but none of the outside-the-norm college experiences portrayed in the show are rare either — based on my own experiences: as a college student, as the parent of college students, and as a college-prep high school librarian and as a college librarian.

I wasn’t referring to the experiences they are showing. I meant that I find the show’s take on college narratively disjointed and not very well written. 

They could have dropped the pointless Ethan/Eleanor/Devi drama and spent more time of Paxton at ASU and the college tours. The show did a much better job handling Devi’s visit to the boarding school. 

[shapeshifter]

10 hours ago, Dani said:

The show did a much better job handling Devi’s visit to the boarding school. 

In the season finale penultimate episode…. 

Spoiler

Devi’s mother apologetically regrets having let Devi take control of choosing a college.

Narratively it is a weak, throwaway line, seemingly written by an exposition fairy. But it is also the exact mistake my parents made with me, and I regret having similarly done with my kids.🤷🏻‍♀️

Edited June 12, 2023 by shapeshifter

[Paloma]

44 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

In the season finale…. 

  Reveal spoiler

Devi’s mother apologetically regrets having let Devi take control of choosing a college.

Narratively it is a weak, throwaway line, seemingly written by an exposition fairy. But it is also the exact mistake my parents made with me, and I regret having similarly done with my kids.🤷🏻‍♀️

That line did not ring true, and I'll make a more detailed comment in the finale thread. 

[ProudMary]

IMO, The teachers/counselors/principal on this show are caricatures. It's sloppy writing and it really came to a head in this episode. (Manish was the only well-written teacher. I miss him not being around this season.) I hated the story line of Ms. Warner and Mr. Shapiro being off to see a Broadway show, while the kids are supposed to  just stay in their room(s?) and watch a movie. The adults are supposed to be WORKING. They're on the trip to chaperone, not to be sightseeing. Of course, things were going to blow up when 17 & 18 year old kids are left on their own. 

So, Eleanor, Fabiola and Ben hop a train to Princeton to party with Devi. Shapiro and Warner rent a van and also head to Princeton, once again leaving all the other kids without any adult supervision. Then, they decide that because of these three, the remainder of the trip is canceled for all the rest of the kids. Can you imagine the additional cost and logistics of doing this for the number of people involved? Punish the offenders, don't penalize the other kids. 

What a stupid story line. It took me right out of the rest of the episode.

[PepSinger]

1 hour ago, ProudMary said:

IMO, The teachers/counselors/principal on this show are caricatures. It's sloppy writing and it really came to a head in this episode. (Manish was the only well-written teacher. I miss him not being around this season.) I hated the story line of Ms. Warner and Mr. Shapiro being off to see a Broadway show, while the kids are supposed to  just stay in their room(s?) and watch a movie. The adults are supposed to be WORKING. They're on the trip to chaperone, not to be sightseeing. Of course, things were going to blow up when 17 & 18 year old kids are left on their own. 

So, Eleanor, Fabiola and Ben hop a train to Princeton to party with Devi. Shapiro and Warner rent a van and also head to Princeton, once again leaving all the other kids without any adult supervision. Then, they decide that because of these three, the remainder of the trip is canceled for all the rest of the kids. Can you imagine the additional cost and logistics of doing this for the number of people involved? Punish the offenders, don't penalize the other kids. 

What a stupid story line. It took me right out of the rest of the episode.

I couldn’t agree with you more.

My American Studies class went on a field trip to NYC when I was a junior. We all definitely had more than one hotel room. We gathered in the hotel lobby and not a bedroom. So weird! We also had chaperones. Sometimes, they’d say, “ok you have two hours to explore SoHo. Be back in X spot by 2,” but to be left alone for hours on end? No. Also, when we went, we saw two Broadway shows. No way would a trip to NYC not include a Broadway show, so it was ridiculous that only the teachers would be going. Finally, if anyone did act up, it was clear that the offender was going to be the one going home, not anyone else. No fucking way would you be able to exchange tickets for an entire class at the last minute. Our parents would’ve stormed the school, LOL.

Edited June 12, 2023 by PepSinger

[tennisgurl]

You would think that the school would have to worry about a lot of very pissed off parents after that college trip was cancelled over a couple of kids sneaking out because their chaperones ran off to watch a play, especially at a school with all of these Ivy bound rich/ambitious kids. This shows approach to the college process is really weird, both narratively and realism wise, and I know its a sitcom and its playing a lot of this for laughs, but its just taking me out of the story. Devi was right to apologize to Paxton about how snotty she was about him dropping out of school and that college isn't for everyone, which it isn't, but she also wasn't wrong that Paxton just gave up because he wasn't automatically the big man on campus and the show seemed to forget that.

I think the show has implied pretty hard that Eleanor isn't as talented of an actress as she thinks she is, but she shouldn't just give up because the most prestigious and exclusive acting school in the country said no to her. It really sucks but there more schools for her to try.

Devi's plot was well done and she and Ben finally had a nice moment for the first time in ages. 

[Cementhead]

Best line of this one was when Julliard guy told Eleanor that there are different kinds of acting and that he bets Flo from Progressive has two houses. 

Also, Lee Rodriguez who plays Fabiola is such a beauty.  That face, that hair -- what a stunner she is and mom's new love interest Mr. Handsome Pants isn't so bad either. 

[thejuicer]

I really liked the bit with the chaperones ditching the students. I know it would be problematic in reality but this is supposed to be a silly show. "We didn't get tickets for you, but we DID get OURSELVES two tickets to Moulin Rouge" along with the eye rolls from the students just had me rolling. It was delivered so well I thought. Then they discover the students at a party and get mad about that? Ha, OK only in TV world.

[shapeshifter]

27 minutes ago, thejuicer said:

I really liked the bit with the chaperones ditching the students. I know it would be problematic in reality but this is supposed to be a silly show. "We didn't get tickets for you, but we DID get OURSELVES two tickets to Moulin Rouge" along with the eye rolls from the students just had me rolling. It was delivered so well I thought. Then they discover the students at a party and get mad about that? Ha, OK only in TV world.

Do we know if the teacher-chaperones paid for their own tickets to the show? 
It would be too weird for the school to only pay for teacher's show tickets and not at least have the kids' tickets factored into the cost of going on the trip.
So I guess the teachers-chaperones decided to flake out on their chaperoning duties to go see a Broadway show (that they managed to get tickets for???).
IDK. I suppose the teacher-chaperones might have convinced themselves that these were "good" kids who didn't need chaperoning. 🙄
Or, maybe the teacher-chaperones thought they'd "try" to get tickets to Moulin Rouge and were surprised when they got them (from scalpers?).

It's a good thing I'm not writing the show, or Devi and her friends would need 10 seasons to get through high school.😆

Edited June 18, 2023 by shapeshifter

[Scarlett45]

47 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

So I guess the teachers-chaperones decided to flake out on their chaperoning duties to go see a Broadway show (that they managed to get tickets for???).
IDK. I suppose the teacher-chaperones might have convinced themselves that these were "good" kids who didn't need chaperoning. 🙄

I can believe this- picture it, Rome February 2003, 13 of us 17/18yrs olds were being chaperoned by our English teacher and her husband, as we were hanging out in the hotel bar “we are going to our room NOW (it’s 8pm), we will see you all at 9am tomorrow to leave. Please be ready. We are going to our room, we are trusting you- just don’t leave the hotel.” aka it was their second honeymoon and they trusted us not do to anything too stupid so they could enjoy themselves. 

We appreciated the freedom and people smoke/drank/swapped rooms. The two people that were dating shared a room. They didn’t care, we were all ready to get on the bus at 9am the next day, and we kept that freedom the 10days of our trip. 

[BigDfromLA]

I completely thought that the actress who played Blair Quon was Amber Midthunder, but it wasn't. She looked just like her. 

[peachmangosteen]

7 hours ago, BigDfromLA said:

I completely thought that the actress who played Blair Quon was Amber Midthunder, but it wasn't. She looked just like her. 

This is so funny because I thought she was Jeanine Mason from Roswell lol.

[andromeda331]

I laughed at the teachers ditching the students to go to a Broadway show. It's usually the other way around. Yeah, Devi and her friends ran off to Jersey for a party. But the teachers ditched first. They should still be fired but it's still funny. I'm glad Devi called Paxton and apologized. While she doesn't know she was right for why he left ASU seeing her idol messed up made her realize that going off to college might not be that easy.