S01.E07: Best Friends; S01.E08: Caregiving

[T Summer]

Press Release

1.07 - Best Friends - 2023-05-28[Spoiler TV]
An affair threatens the lives of Dan Gallagher and his wife, Beth, in this reimagining of the 1987 movie, exploring marriage and infidelity through the lens of modern attitudes toward strong women, personality disorders and coercive control.

L- R Cliff Chamberlain as Stanley Forrest and Lizzy Caplan as Alex Forrest in Fatal Attraction episode 7

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Cosmopolitan, Town and Country and Ready Steady Cut websites are all stating ep 7 Best Friends and 8 Caregiving will air on 5/28/23:

"The final two episodes will be released on May 28. Think of it like an old-school two-part finale with all the twists and reveals you could ask for. Episodes 7 and 8 on May 28." - quote Leah Marilla Thomas Cosmopolitan

 

[T Summer]

Airs May 28, 202

 

 

Fatal Attraction is now streaming on Paramount+. New episodes are released every Sunday until the finale on May 28, 2023.

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by T Summer
broken link

[Spartan Girl]

Arthur?!

Well, I certainly didn’t see that coming.

[SeanBug]

Me neither. I thought it would be Beth, which was the misdirect when they had her meet with Alex I guess.

Until the boat thing came up I couldn't figure out how Beth or Dan would have disposed of her body at the Marina.  

Is there going to be a Season 2? I can't see them ending this with Arthur getting away with it, or at least Beth and Dan finding out. Did he do it just so Alex couldn't do more to hurt the Gallaghers?  I also got the feeling he killed his wife, maybe gave her too many drugs or something, when he spilled the Ibuprofen all over the floor (also don't put that back in the bottle!!) 

And Ellen turning into a sociopath.  She gets rid of the friend who was having the affair with the professor, and turning up at his house with a faked recording? 

I thought I'd get some closure, now I have to wait for another season? 

[Spartan Girl]

Entertainment Weekly was right, this ending sucks.

Having Arthur be the killer just skews more sympathy for Dan because he kept quiet for all those years AND married Beth. So poor Beth went from a cheater to an older version of Joe Goldberg—yeah, I said it. There’s being a supportive friend and stalking then killing your friend’s husband’s mistress. Obviously he has just as much boundary issues as Alex did.

And to top it all off, now Ellen has grown up into a woman obsessed with her professor. Which explains why she was so invested in why Alex was the way she was.

So much for a more “nuanced” take. Because even though Dan got called out/consequenced for his actions, the show still tries to make us pity him while writing off Alex as Psycho Bitch.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[shelley1234]

I hope there is not a season two and wish it was made to just be a whole story told in one series.   I don't need Ellen as the new Alex.  No thank you.  

One thing that hit me during these episodes is that I felt they made Beth look older in the previous scenes than she did in the current timeline.  Amanda Peet looked absolutely ancient in that scene where she confronted Alex. 

Generally I don't like how much they humanized Dan in this story and he seemed to not lose much other than the 15 years in jail.  He still has his family standing behind him, inviting him to wonderful family dinners.  He still has the system in his pocket enough that the cop that investigated him sit down and hash out the case, even if he doesn't believe him.  He can still get a job in his field, even if he's never going to be a lawyer or judge again.  He seems to have the easiest and most lax parole I have ever seen.  Life ror Dan is, all in all, pretty good other than prison for a crime he didn't commit and being a convicted felon thing. 

I have to think that was their intention when they picked Josh Jackson to play Dan since he's pretty charming and likeable and you just want to believe he's a good guy.  Pacey Witter is not the bad guy, but Dan Gallagher absolutely is whether he killed Alex or not. They didn't do Alex the same favor of humanizing her much at all.   They showed why she so easily became obsessed with Dan with her history, but still made her seem like a psycho bitch and this time she didn't just kill a bunny, she killed a grandma.  It made you not feel much sympathy for her when she turned up dead. 

Arthur as the murderer.  Since he touched things all over Alex's apartment, did they just not have his prints on file to compare them to?  And damn did the murder work out for him.  Dan goes away.  He gets Dan's wife and child and everyone thinks he is a wonderful amazing caring man.  He just has a wee bit of guilt to deal with.  With the two father figures Ellen has...Dan and Arthur...no wonder she all fucked up and kind of psychopathic. 

I would have preferred the original ending to the movie that they ultimately decided not to go with.   That would make it so that Alex ultimately put him in jail and there would no one to find to exonerate him.  He'd be assumed to be a murderer for life.  I wouldn't hate that for Dan.  

[Spartan Girl]

2 hours ago, shelley1234 said:

With the two father figures Ellen has...Dan and Arthur...no wonder she all fucked up and kind of psychopathic. 

Yup, but at the same time I’m not loving the “daddy issues make women go cray-cray” implication. If I wanted that, I’d watch Lifetime.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Madding crowd]

I find it hard to differentiate between the timelines until something happens to tell me it’s past or present. I don’t agree that Dan needs further punishment for cheating than 15 years in prison, losing his job, wife and reputation. I certainly don’t condone cheating and have been married 28 years, but it’s not murder.

I don’t think we know enough about Arthur to think it’s in his nature to brutally murder Alex. I am looking forward to another season and hope he gets caught. To me this show is like all the thriller books I read and I enjoyed it for what it was. Some women are stalkers and disturbed just like men. 

[T Summer]

48 minutes ago, shelley1234 said:

Arthur as the murderer.  Since he touched things all over Alex's apartment, did they just not have his prints on file to compare them to?  And damn did the murder work out for him.  Dan goes away.  He gets Dan's wife and child and everyone thinks he is a wonderful amazing caring man.  He just has a wee bit of guilt to deal with.  With the two father figures Ellen has...Dan and Arthur...no wonder she all fucked up and kind of psychopathic. 

I would have preferred the original ending to the movie that they ultimately decided not to go with.   That would make it so that Alex ultimately put him in jail and there would no one to find to exonerate him.  He'd be assumed to be a murderer for life.  I wouldn't hate that for Dan.  

I agree with just about all of your post.  I wanted it to be sewn up in one season and I feared they'd leave the whole who killed Alex mystery unsolved  in an attempt to draw it out for another season.

Amanda Peet did in fact look younger in the latter day scenes! and it seems Joshua Jackson can't help but come across at least in part as a decent guy.

They may not have identified Arthur's fingerprints if they're not in the system because he's never been booked for a crime or worked as a government official or held a license where they take your fingerprints, like a gun permit. Arthur had a tiny bit of motive besides wanting to end Beth's troubles and she and her daughter being  in danger  as Alex set fire to a house he  and Beth were  in; though I'm sure that was a lesser part of his motivation.

 

As to the sentence Dan served, I wonder what he would have gotten if convicted of assaulting Alex instead? He did toss her all around her apartment and choked her and could have caused serious injury. I have to think he would have served some time for that? No doubt he'd have lost his job and relationships in that event, too.

 

As to your last part: Over on the compare movie to series thread you can see the original ending as filmed  being introduced by Adrien Lynne! I knew when I watched for the first time the other day  why it tested badly with audiences. Alex sets Dan up to take the fall for her murder, but while searching for the lawyer's number Beth finds a cassette tape Alex made that announces her intent to commit suicide. It doesn't say any of that nasty aggressive stuff the tape in the final cut did. She's distraught  and pleading with Dan  if this doesn't work out  I'll just cut deeper next time. In the final scene  Alex slices her throat with the knife Dan had grasped in her apartment. The one just before that shows Beth  weeping with joy clutching the tape that she knows will  completely exonerate Dan.

 

 

[AstridM]

2 hours ago, shelley1234 said:

Generally I don't like how much they humanized Dan in this story and he seemed to not lose much other than the 15 years in jail.  He still has his family standing behind him, inviting him to wonderful family dinners.  He still has the system in his pocket enough that the cop that investigated him sit down and hash out the case, even if he doesn't believe him.  He can still get a job in his field, even if he's never going to be a lawyer or judge again.  He seems to have the easiest and most lax parole I have ever seen.  Life ror Dan is, all in all, pretty good other than prison for a crime he didn't commit and being a convicted felon thing. 

I mean, cheating on his wife was a bad thing, but didn’t he suffer enough by being imprisoned for 15 years for a crime he didn’t commit?

[shelley1234]

12 minutes ago, AstridM said:

I mean, cheating on his wife was a bad thing, but didn’t he suffer enough by being imprisoned for 15 years for a crime he didn’t commit?

It's the redemption tour that the show put him on that I didn't really enjoy.  Dan wasn't this great man who made one mistake that spiraled...he was a pretty brutal man who enjoyed his privileges and thought the rules didn't apply to him. 

With how the show ended, Dan's life was shown as almost better than it was before the murder and conviction.  Which in itself is just not realistic, but alas...

[Elizzikra]

There are so many things I don't understand. First, why are Arthur and his wife (whose name I can't remember) so devoted to Dan and Beth. I get that Beth and Arthur were best friends in college and they are Ellen's godparents but... they pay a shit ton of money for Dan's defense on top of the wife's medical expenses and then Arthur literally kills for them. I have close friends but this really seems like pretty extensive enmeshment to me. 

I also don't like the non-ending. I don't want a second season though I've been pretty forgiving of the show thus far. As best I can tell, the only thing this season did was set up for a second one, leaving more than enough threads dangling. I do think that it was an interesting twist... that Ellen's friend was set up to be the bad actor but then it turned out Ellen was the dark and twisty figure. But I'm also not a fan of the "daddy issues make women crazy" theme either.

Quote

Dan wasn't this great man who made one mistake that spiraled...he was a pretty brutal man who enjoyed his privileges and thought the rules didn't apply to him. 

I multi-tasked during much of my watching of the series so maybe I missed it, but I really didn't view Dan this way. Yes -he cheated on his wife (once - we don't have any evidence that he was a serial cheater) and that's a big bad. But I didn't really see that he was an overall brutal guy who thought the rules didn't apply to him or that he had too much enjoyment of his privileges. His father may have pulled strings to help him get his job but it was clear that his dad was very hard on him and in his own way, Dan paid for that. It wasn't handed to him on a silver platter. He was portrayed as working hard and being genuinely good at his job. He was a devoted father. I just don't see him as the overarching villain in all of this.

[Madding crowd]

I didn’t see Dan as brutal and if someone kidnapped my child even to take them to a park, I would have reacted like Dan did. This was on top of her killing Beth’s mother. 

[Broderbits]

2 hours ago, AstridM said:

I mean, cheating on his wife was a bad thing, but didn’t he suffer enough by being imprisoned for 15 years for a crime he didn’t commit?

I agree; he more than paid for having one affair (although I would never have forgiven him for involving the dog!). He certainly was no where near as bad as Alex's father, what an utter turd he was.

I more or less enjoyed this until the very end, when Ellen started messing around with the sound files and then was revealed to be our new Psycho Bitch. No thank you, not interested in watching that for season 2. Every woman in this show was either a damaged manipulative psychopath, an oblivious happy idiot, or simply too weak to matter much. Except for Arthur's wife; even though she was dying she actually brought a little sunshine to the story. They should have had her kill Alex as a final glorious favor to her friend. That would have been shockingly satisfying.

[txhorns79]

7 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Yup, but at the same time I’m not loving the “daddy issues make women go cray-cray” implication. If I wanted that, I’d watch Lifetime.

Her issues were father related, but her father was a whole other level of awful.  I've seen that personality type before.  He's the hero of his own story, to the exclusion of everyone else.  His being awful to you is your fault.  His failures are your fault.  His daughter's murder is important when he gets to be a star witness, and let everyone know how much his daughter's death is making him suffer.      

[ribboninthesky1]

Welp, my theory was wrong! The hiding in plain sight part was correct, but I had the wrong man.  I still believed it was Mike during episode 7, especially after Dan threw Mike under the bus while he was on the stand FOR HIS DEFENSE. I figured, hey, who better to cover his tracks in a crime scene than a man who oversaw dozens of investigations? And I assumed he would use Arthur's rationale: surely, the head of Major Crimes would not be found guilty by a jury for a crime he didn't commit!

I don't think the Arthur twist was entirely earned, especially since the key call from Beth that was apparently the catalyst for his actions wasn't revealed until nearly the end.  He was never on my radar because how would he know where she lived? But that was answered.  And the conversation with the lawyer was even more WTF? But hey, at least we know why he had no problem with putting up the money for Dan's defense. 

I don't know, Dan can still be a narcissist without being a killer.  He didn't deserve to be in prison for something he didn't do, but he also sabotaged his own case because he refused to admit to the affair.  Hell, he couldn't be bothered to notify law enforcement after Ellen's kidnapping because...?? The very thing he thought would be his downfall might have saved him if he were honest. If nothing else, having the very wife he cheated on vouch for him on the stand would have swayed the jury.  But he could never do that. So I have little sympathy for his own hubris.       

The Ellen reveal wasn't a surprise (to me, it was something telegraphed with the Toni Wolff discussions), but it really wasn't necessary.  Or maybe I was just never that interested in her perspective. 

[Snazzy Daisy]

The killer reveal sucks! 😣

Did Arthur kill Alex because he felt hopeless with what’s happening with his wife and he wanted to help his bff eliminating her “problem”? Did Beth tell him that Alex could be pregnant and she must go?

Arthur didn’t wear gloves when doing the deed. How come there’s no mention of CSIs/ME finding traces of foreign DNA on Alex’s body or in the apartment? Arthur had access to his friend’s boat. He should’ve buried Alex in the deep sea. So why took a risky move by leaving her at the marina?

TBH, I’d rather have Alex faking her death, to return to LA years later (with or without a kid) and to be actually killed in the current timeline.

What did Beth Gallagher do in her previous life to deserve all these?

• A cheating ex-husband.
• A bff & new husband who’s the actual murderer.
• An unhinged daughter who turns into Alex 2.0.
• A mother who died under some questionable circumstances.

Totally some nuanced d!ck moves by the showrunners, eyeing for a second season. 🙄

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Snazzy Daisy

[bilgistic]

I was expecting Arthur's wife to be dead when he came home from killing Alex. I guess there aren't cameras on the dock recording a man carrying a body in a duffle bag.

Add me to the list of people less than interested in a second season with Ellen being Alex 2.0.

[shelley1234]

9 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

😣Arthur didn’t wear gloves when doing the deed. How come there’s no mention of CSIs/ME finding traces of foreign DNA on Alex’s body or in the apartment? Arthur had access to his friend’s boat. He should’ve buried Alex in the deep sea. So why took a risky move by leaving her at the marina?

TBH, I’d rather have Alex faking her death, to return to LA years later (with or without a kid) and to be actually killed in the current timeline.

 

🙄

Until the scene where Arthur met with a lawyer and tried to come forward (and that scene rang pretty sincere to me), I thought he did the murder and left enough clues to set Dan up for it.  

I thought he left the blood there on purpose, so she couldn't just have run away.   I thought he left the body where it could be found since he heard Dan say himself that it is rare they charge someone for murder without the body.  I thought Arthur was killing two birds with one stone.  Protecting Beth in two ways...removing someone who is physically threatening her family and then also removing the one who emotionally damaged it.  I think that is a more compelling motivation for murder than the one we got.  

 

I still would have preferred the angle of Alex actually killing herself.  And there being no voice message or anything to prove that she did it.  So Dan didn't do it, but he can't prove she did it to herself.  She wins in death...in her mind.  She made him pay the price for not loving her and he can't ever prove otherwise. But that never made any practical sense since she can't kill herself and then remove her own body.  

[txhorns79]

10 hours ago, shelley1234 said:

Until the scene where Arthur met with a lawyer and tried to come forward (and that scene rang pretty sincere to me), I thought he did the murder and left enough clues to set Dan up for it.  

I kind of rolled my eyes at that scene.  While the DA wouldn't just accept that Arthur killed Alex, they do have ways to determine whether someone is likely telling the truth.  For example, asking Arthur about things only the killer might know, how he did the deed, etc.  It's not just a "they won't believe you, and will charge you with perjury, so there is no point in doing anything."  

 

12 hours ago, bilgistic said:

 

Add me to the list of people less than interested in a second season with Ellen being Alex 2.0.

Yeah, I don't understand why they would go with that particular "twist."  Perhaps we are supposed to be Alex passed Ellen her "powers of crazy" during their brief time together.  Otherwise, I feel like the writers are insulting the viewers, more so than they already have done.         

[shelley1234]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

I kind of rolled my eyes at that scene.  While the DA wouldn't just accept that Arthur killed Alex, they do have ways to determine whether someone is likely telling the truth.  For example, asking Arthur about things only the killer might know, how he did the deed, etc.  It's not just a "they won't believe you, and will charge you with perjury, so there is no point in doing anything."  

 

His attorney was spot on though that Dan's conviction was their white whale.  Once upon a time, I worked in the criminal justice system and they protect their convictions like nothing else....that's often way more important than the truth and justice.   I've also watched buckets of true crime cases where the person is exonerated and the cops and prosecutors almost always say they still think they did it and the conviction was just and valid.  

And even if they did ask him things only the killer would know.  He's a close personal family friend of Dan, who they think is 100% the killer. 

Now the fact that his finger prints are all over the place and most likely in that pile of prints that Dan and Mike have...that's actual evidence that at least supports his statement that he was there and committed the crime.  

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, shelley1234 said:

 

And even if they did ask him things only the killer would know.  He's a close personal family friend of Dan, who they think is 100% the killer. 

I agree that prosecutors rarely will admit to error, but I think it would be a stretch to believe someone would be willing to go to jail for a couple of decades by making up a confession that they did the crime for which their friend was charged.  If they still don't want to believe him after that, that's one thing, but it's better than doing nothing. 

[millennium]

Apparently it takes a village to kill Alex Forrest.

What we've been watching all this time isn't so much a whodunit as one of those horror movies where the evil spirit jumps from one host to the next.   "Are you mad at me?"

Cue the

I'm out.

 

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by millennium

[Spartan Girl]

Are the showrunners seriously giving us the double standard that Arthur is “a good person stressed by the death of his wife that did a terrible thing for the right reason” Alex/Ellen’s troubled upbringing is no excuse for their actions?!

3 hours ago, millennium said:

I'm out

Ditto.

[TattleTeeny]

On 5/29/2023 at 12:52 AM, Snazzy Daisy said:

Arthur didn’t wear gloves when doing the deed. How come there’s no mention of CSIs/ME finding traces of foreign DNA on Alex’s body or in the apartment?

Not specifically DNA evidence, but Dan filed an appeal based on fingerprints at the scene that didn't belong to him and were never tested. I just assumed that, like too often in real life, the police decided that they had who and what they needed without bothering to go any further -- the investigation equivalent of having extra pieces after putting together the IKEA bookshelf.

Quote

His attorney was spot on though that Dan's conviction was their white whale.  Once upon a time, I worked in the criminal justice system and they protect their convictions like nothing else....that's often way more important than the truth and justice.   I've also watched buckets of true crime cases where the person is exonerated and the cops and prosecutors almost always say they still think they did it and the conviction was just and valid.  

YUP, YUP, YUP! (Also, off topic: have you listened to the Truth & Justice With Bob Ruff podcast? It's mainly about possible wrongful convictions. It is the most thorough reinvestigation of investigations...if you like really digging into the details and minutiae, it is the best. Literally, entire seasons are dedicated to one particular case (for instance, season 5 is West Memphis 3, which is what I immediately thought of when I read the part of your post that I quoted here.)

Was it deliberate that Ellen's mannerisms and way of speaking were very similar to Alex? I mean, probably not because why? But I couldn't stop noticing it.

Edited May 30, 2023 by TattleTeeny

[AstridM]

11 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I agree that prosecutors rarely will admit to error, but I think it would be a stretch to believe someone would be willing to go to jail for a couple of decades by making up a confession that they did the crime for which their friend was charged.  If they still don't want to believe him after that, that's one thing, but it's better than doing nothing. 

He could have also gone to the press and told his story. I bet that would’ve made the system pay attention. 

[margol29]

17 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

IYeah, I don't understand why they would go with that particular "twist."  Perhaps we are supposed to be Alex passed Ellen her "powers of crazy" during their brief time together.  Otherwise, I feel like the writers are insulting the viewers, more so than they already have done.         

These are my thoughts, too. Alex had maybe an hour with Ellen at the park. We are led to believe that in that hour Alex made such an impression on Ellen that she would turn into a "mini-me" of Alex. Instead of spending 20 some years with her mom and learning from Her example?

[shelley1234]

I hate the twist ending of Ellen being the new Alex type.  Hate it.  

I don't think that Alex imprinted on Ellen in their brief meeting and she passed on her "crazy" to her.  I do think that the amount of trauma that Ellen went through could show in a lot of ways.   Her dad that was her world was arrested and went to prison for murder.  She had to testify in the trial to help him and he still went away. Kids often see that as their fault even though it isn't. Her dad cut all contact when he went to jail and it seems her mom didn't talk to her about it much either.  Abandonment issues for days.  Dad comes home who is now a stranger to her.  And then she gets emotionally involved in proving her dad isn't a murderer and all that stirs up.  

Looking back, I am surprised she just got the friend kicked out of school and not that she went missing....never to be heard from again.  Maybe next season.... Ugh.  Please have their be no next season.  

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by shelley1234
Sometimes my grammar be bad

[ribboninthesky1]

9 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Are the showrunners seriously giving us the double standard that Arthur is “a good person stressed by the death of his wife that did a terrible thing for the right reason” Alex/Ellen’s troubled upbringing is no excuse for their actions?!

Wow - was this in an article?

6 hours ago, AstridM said:

He could have also gone to the press and told his story. I bet that would’ve made the system pay attention. 

He also could have gone to the police regardless of the lawyer's advice (if he cared so much about Dan's innocence).  I don't feel the least bit sorry for Dan, but it also felt like a very weak attempt to show that Arthur "tried" to confess.  He really didn't.  It's just another way the twist felt tacked on rather than earned through storytelling. 

9 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

Not specifically DNA evidence, but Dan filed an appeal based on fingerprints at the scene that didn't belong to him and were never tested. I just assumed that, like too often in real life, the police decided that they had who and what they needed without bothering to go any further -- the investigation equivalent of having extra pieces after putting together the IKEA bookshelf.

During the trial, whoever was on the stand being questioned about fingerprints mentioned that several other fingerprints found, but said prints did not show up as matches in the system. No idea how that works in reality, but I guess we are to assume Arthur's was not in the system.  

[TattleTeeny]

Right (I thought they also said something about untested prints too, but maybe not?). But that doesn’t mean that the police are supposed to just give up and say, “oh well, must be this guy then” (not that they sometimes don’t do exactly that, of course!). And in real life, investigators probably would have interviewed some of Dan’s friends. Whether they would have figured it out, who knows? Maybe if Arthur’s wife remembered that he left that night? 

Also, I think I didn’t even know his name was Arthur until now!

Edited May 30, 2023 by TattleTeeny

[shelley1234]

11 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

Right. But that doesn’t mean that the police are supposed to just give up and say, “oh well, must be this guy then” (not that they sometimes don’t do exactly that, of course!). And in real life, investigators probably would have interviewed some of Dan’s friends. 

It is the unfortunately common police work of tunnel vision once a primary suspect is established.   They look for evidence to support that theory and absolutely discount and dismiss anything that does not.  Dan the affair partner was a slam dunk, so they were looking to make that case and not looking at anything else.  

[TattleTeeny]

Oh, I know it. I should have said “good investigators.” (The other kind are the reason we have wrongful conviction podcasts, haha!)

Edited May 30, 2023 by TattleTeeny

[millennium]

A parting thought.

You know who would have made a better Alex?

Aubrey Plaza.

If you think she can't bring the menace, watch her in the series Legion.

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, millennium said:

You know who would have made a better Alex?

I thought Lizzy Caplan was fine.  If you saw her performance as Annie Wilkes (from Misery) in the show Castle Rock, she's very good at playing a character who can initially appear normal, then slowly reveal just how off they actually are.  I think the issue here was the showrunners and writers wanted to do too much, and it just turned into a very muddled take on this property. 

[TattleTeeny]

Oooh! I need to revisit Castle Rock! While Kathy Bates is sheer perfection (always!), I would like to see Lizzie as well!

[T Summer]

5 hours ago, millennium said:

A parting thought.

You know who would have made a better Alex?

Aubrey Plaza.

If you think she can't bring the menace, watch her in the series Legion.

I was thinking about who I would've liked to see cast as the two leads. Thinking of making it a topic but interest seemed to be waning here so I didn't. Lizzie Caplan is plenty capable but I didn't care for the way Alex was portrayed in the series.

 

 Eva Green!

and Timothy Olyphant

 

or for a younger pair:

Amanda Seyfreid  or maybe Riley Keough and IDK...  Chris Pratt?

[millennium]

34 minutes ago, T Summer said:

Eva Green!

If you want the audience cheering on Dan as he cheats on Beth, lol.

[gesundheit]

Well, I'd like to at least feel a tiny bit smug that I predicted the new husband (as some of you above, his name being "Arthur" was news to me this episode), but it was all so incredibly deflating that I'm not even experiencing that satisfaction.

On 5/28/2023 at 5:19 PM, Elizzikra said:

There are so many things I don't understand. First, why are Arthur and his wife (whose name I can't remember) so devoted to Dan and Beth. I get that Beth and Arthur were best friends in college and they are Ellen's godparents but... they pay a shit ton of money for Dan's defense on top of the wife's medical expenses and then Arthur literally kills for them. I have close friends but this really seems like pretty extensive enmeshment to me. 

Arthur paid for Dan's defense out of guilt! But why he would kill Alex "for them" in the first place wasn't well explained at all.

On 5/28/2023 at 6:26 PM, Broderbits said:

 

I more or less enjoyed this until the very end, when Ellen started messing around with the sound files and then was revealed to be our new Psycho Bitch. No thank you, not interested in watching that for season 2. 

So silly. And I couldn't really even track what had happened since I tended to somewhat tune out Ellen's present-day scenes. The Jungian stuff was way too on-the-nose and heavy-handed.

On 5/28/2023 at 11:21 PM, ribboninthesky1 said:

 

I don't think the Arthur twist was entirely earned, especially since the key call from Beth that was apparently the catalyst for his actions wasn't revealed until nearly the end.  He was never on my radar because how would he know where she lived? But that was answered.  And the conversation with the lawyer was even more WTF? But hey, at least we know why he had no problem with putting up the money for Dan's defense. 

I don't know, Dan can still be a narcissist without being a killer.  He didn't deserve to be in prison for something he didn't do, but he also sabotaged his own case because he refused to admit to the affair.  Hell, he couldn't be bothered to notify law enforcement after Ellen's kidnapping because...?? The very thing he thought would be his downfall might have saved him if he were honest. If nothing else, having the very wife he cheated on vouch for him on the stand would have swayed the jury.  But he could never do that.

How did Arthur know where she lived? I missed that detail.

I agree about sabotaging his case, that was completely insane and I don't buy for a second that an experienced prosecutor would make that choice. The affair being real literally explained away every single piece of evidence against him for the murder, but his inexplicable pride did him in.

On 5/30/2023 at 11:38 AM, AstridM said:

He could have also gone to the press and told his story. I bet that would’ve made the system pay attention. 

Or any random true crime podcaster! People would lick that up, it would become a cause celebre!

6 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I thought Lizzy Caplan was fine.  If you saw her performance as Annie Wilkes (from Misery) in the show Castle Rock, she's very good at playing a character who can initially appear normal, then slowly reveal just how off they actually are.  I think the issue here was the showrunners and writers wanted to do too much, and it just turned into a very muddled take on this property. 

It's cute that she's now making a chunk of her living reviving psycho-chick icons from thriller flicks of that era. She going to do Peyton Flanders and Catherine Tramell next?

Add me to the growing list of "nopes" on a second season.

[ribboninthesky1]

On 5/30/2023 at 7:28 PM, TattleTeeny said:

Right (I thought they also said something about untested prints too, but maybe not?). But that doesn’t mean that the police are supposed to just give up and say, “oh well, must be this guy then” (not that they sometimes don’t do exactly that, of course!). And in real life, investigators probably would have interviewed some of Dan’s friends. Whether they would have figured it out, who knows? Maybe if Arthur’s wife remembered that he left that night? 

Also, I think I didn’t even know his name was Arthur until now!

The bolded is probably more accurate than what I recalled.  In any case, it wasn't my intent to defend the police work.  Just that I remembered the fingerprints thing referenced during the trial, which I'm sure was included to explain away Arthur's prints. 

10 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I think the issue here was the showrunners and writers wanted to do too much, and it just turned into a very muddled take on this property. 

Agreed.

3 hours ago, gesundheit said:

How did Arthur know where she lived? I missed that detail.

There was the scene where he was stalking her at work.  I assumed he followed her home, although we never saw him do so.  

On 5/29/2023 at 8:46 AM, bilgistic said:

I guess there aren't cameras on the dock recording a man carrying a body in a duffle bag.

Yes, I thought that was strange.  The affair was in 2007/2008, right? I'm sure cameras at a marina would have been standard. For that matter, the apartment building wouldn't have external cameras, either? I remember wondering how Arthur would have managed to get out of there without being seen or heard.  

[GiandujaPie]

Hated the ending. Arthur was shown as being very loving and devoted to the 2 most important women in his life - his wife and best friend. When his wife became ill with cancer and wasn't getting any better, he felt helpless to alleviate her suffering. When his best friend was going through all of that trauma with her husband's mistress who killed her mother and tried to kidnap her daughter, this was finally something he could take action on. That's the reason I believe he killed Alex. He was powerless in regards to his wife, so killing Alex made him feel like he could do something. And I think that's ultimately why he paid for Dan's defense and bail. He felt guilty that Dan was getting blamed for something he had done so he was trying to help him get acquitted. 

I don't understand why Ellen would turn out to be psycho like Alex but if there is a second season, I think I'm out. This was not as entertaining as I thought it would be. 

[Cementhead]

I genuinely hated watching this show and am wondering why these actors would even attach themselves to it.  Perhaps they were like me initially -- excited by the concept because of the movie.  Now that I begrudgingly made it to the end, I see why we had to waste so much time watching grown-up Ellen naval gaze and and over analyze.  To set up season 2, of course.  No thanks.  I can't wait to not watch it.

Mike & Molly fans:  Earl Broker was played by Reno Wilson (Carl) and Judge Webb in episode 7 was played by Rondi Reed (Peggy.)

 

 

[steph369]

2 hours ago, Cementhead said:

and am wondering why these actors would even attach themselves to it.  Perhaps they were like me initially -- excited by the concept because of the movie. 

It’s a paycheck. We’ve all had to work at jobs we didn’t like at some point, to pay the bills. They were probably all thinking “The things I have to do for a little food and warmth.” 😀

[bilgistic]

Joshua Jackson's doing fine. The man's had three multi-season shows in his life—Dawson's Creek, Fringe and The Affair.

Lizzy Caplan works steadily as does Amanda Peet.

[Elizzikra]

5 hours ago, Cementhead said:

I genuinely hated watching this show and am wondering why these actors would even attach themselves to it.  Perhaps they were like me initially -- excited by the concept because of the movie.  

I think that was it, exactly. The concept had a great deal of promise and could have been great. The paycheck doesn’t hurt either.

[Sweet-tea]

On 5/30/2023 at 2:03 PM, margol29 said:

These are my thoughts, too. Alex had maybe an hour with Ellen at the park. We are led to believe that in that hour Alex made such an impression on Ellen that she would turn into a "mini-me" of Alex. Instead of spending 20 some years with her mom and learning from Her example?

This bothered me too. I found it to be a big flaw in the writing. It also looked like Ellen was looking at Alex kind of suspiciously at one point, as if she knew the woman was not quite right. Yet she just lapped up her nonsense and held onto it for the rest of her life?

Overall, this kept my attention but I don’t think I’d watch a second season about Ellen. I didn’t like her character or find her interesting. 

Agree that Amanda Peet looked much older in the scene with Alex. It was confusing to me. It was like modern-day Beth was meeting past-day Alex. I think part of the problem was the atrocious wig, especially the bangs. Not a flattering hairstyle for anyone, and Amanda doesn’t need bangs. 

I couldn’t figure out what they were doing with Arthur in the scene with the ibuprofen. Every time he checked on his wife I was afraid he was going to smother her or something. 

I wish I could see the 1987 film with the original ending before they changed it. That would be interesting. Even with the flawed ending, the original movie was much more suspenseful to me than this series, which dragged, especially with the jumping back and forth between timelines. 

Edited June 5, 2023 by Sweet-tea

[Elizzikra]

On 6/1/2023 at 11:41 AM, GiandujaPie said:

 

I don't understand why Ellen would turn out to be psycho like Alex but if there is a second season, I think I'm out. This was not as entertaining as I thought it would be. 

I don’t think we are to believe that Alex made Ellen “psycho,” I think we are to believe that men do that to women, and specifically fathers to daughters. Which, in this case would also be murky. Did Dan’s first 8 years with Ellen make her who she turned out to be or was it the decade plus with Arthur? Or Dan’s abandonment of her? Or just all of under some “generalized shitty fathering” diagnosis?

Perhaps not a popular opinion but while I think Dan was shown to be lacking as a husband, he was portrayed as a present and loving father to Ellen. There’s no reason to think that Arthur was anything but a great dad too (murdering past aside). So that doesn’t really add up either.

I didn’t mind the first watch but it really doesn’t hang together or make much sense and I won’t be interested in more, if there is any…

[T Summer]

The whole Ellen thing was beyond ridiculous. They took  a tailor made opportunity to make a massively successful movie even better by eliminating it's weak  final act with a knife wielding psycho killer  who keeps coming back  when you think they're gone.

... and ended the series with yet another disturbed person who sees things that aren't there (between her and her professor)   and is willing to do whatever it takes to remove any obstacles to getting what she wants. She's already looking crazy while uttering Alex's words "It seems like you're mad at me. Are you mad at me?".

The fact that she's studying psychology and is in therapy  doesn't seem to enter into it..

I didn't read anything about the series but the  dribs and drabs that made  their way over here  were about  making Alex less of  a crazed psychopath and  more of a fully fleshed out character and then they give us  unbalanced Ellen on the loose, a blatant set up for more of the same thing  they vowed  get away from with this vehicle.

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by T Summer
corrected grammar