S03.E09: The Dress

[scarynikki12]

Quote

 Superman and John Henry clash over how to handle Bruno Mannheim, while Lois worries over upcoming treatments and confides in Lana about her early courtship with Clark.

 

 

[scarynikki12]

Seventeen years ago and we have wedding venues arguments and Lois getting nominated for an almost Pulitzer.

I'm not holding out hope the one more round of chemo will be the last one.

I guess the town's doing a big charity thing? Or they're all donating clothes to the same thrift store on the same day. And, yes, boys, you don't donate used underwear. EVER. 

Yeah, we're getting Lana and Irons sooner than later. Not over the top but also not subtle on the teasing.

Ok, show, I don't like you referencing Diggle when you made the stupid choice to retcon this show out of Earth Prime. 

I won't lie, smug and cocky look good on Irons. 

I don't say this often enough but I would kill to live in the Kent farmhouse.

I hope Lois figured/s out a way to get Clark at least some of his baseball cards back.

I get Nat's point but Candace is hours away, we have no evidence she and Jon have seen each other in person since she moved, and she's away from her father now. Mateo in all likelihood still lives at home with Bruno so Jon's concern about her safety is valid.

Bruno really doesn't believe in subtlety does he? Did Mateo spend his whole life getting distracted by shiny objects and that's how he never had a clue about his dad's criminal empire?

Irons' isn't feeling particularly subtle either I see.

I love Lois' and Lana's friendship and we don't get nearly enough scenes between them. This conversation is fantastic.

I DO NOT want Jon and Sarah to be a thing but I'm enjoying their friendship. And she appreciates some twin reconciliation.

Hee, Clark's first thought when he hears Hooters Bazoombas is chicken wings. You married the perfect man Lois.

Irons your suit is RIGHT BEHIND YOU SO PUT IT ON!!!! Why don't tv characters ever listen to me?

Why do I feel like Bizarro is going to show up? I have no evidence but Bruno's got to let him come out to play at some point.

I hope we get some good emotional fallout from Irons consciously taking a life. 

Bruno I don't think bringing Mateo into your Frankenstein Lab is the best idea. At least I was half right on Bizarro being in the episode.

Since the flashbacks are seventeen years ago the twins were conceived in that limo right? 

Clark is so cute fidgeting with his suit. Sweet shot of them floating in the clouds.

[DanaK]

Wow this show, this season so far. If it ends up getting canceled, at least it will have had a fantastic season instead of the lackluster previous season. That ending was wonderful

Edited May 24, 2023 by DanaK

[Frozendiva]

The end floating in the clouds scene was lovely.

I also enjoyed the Lois and Lana friendship and the painful and difficult conversation both women had about identity.

I hope the show is renewed. It may not make big money, but it is well done and I try to not miss an episode. The CW should be proud of this little show’s accomplishments and part of the whole Superman legacy.

[thuganomics85]

Can't think of many shows; let alone CW/D.C. ones; that actually go that deep into discussion about how cancer can effect your body and especially how women can lose their breasts and how they will make them feel going forward.  Now, obviously, I believe Lana is completely right that Clark is someone who will still love Lois no matter how her body changes going forward, but it was understandable that Lois would have all of these emotions about it: not just because of him but how she would view herself going forward.  Great scene(s) and well acted by both Elizabeth Tulloch and Emmanuelle Chriqui.

I guess we're suppose to think Irons is going too far by keeping Bruno from seeing Peia until he turns his stuff over and then killing Henry Miller, but I kind of understand why.  Not only did Peia literally try to kill him in cold blood, but we've seen way too many times (on this show and others) how letting your guard down with the baddies just leads to them somehow escaping and even regaining the upper hand.  And I'm not quite sure what he was suppose to do when it came to Miller.  Was their a way he could have simply knocked him out?  Or was he suppose to wait for Superman to come back down and finish the job?

Speaking of which, man, I know he didn't mean anything, but some poor civilian is going to come back from wherever they were and find out that their car has been totaled thanks to Supes launching Miller into it.  Hopefully they'll be compensated with whatever clean-up policy is going to be used to fix all of the damage Smallville got tonight!

Bruno is showing himself not to be Father of the Year material, but I guess being truthful about your villainous schemes is slightly better than hiding it from your child.  Kind of?

Kent bro-hug for the win!

All of the Clark/Lois flashbacks were great.  Tyler Hoechlin and Elizabeth Tulloch really have made this one of the best Clark/Lois pairings ever in media.

[baldryanr]

Lois must use the same skin cream as Team Flash because she looks exactly the same today as she did 17 years ago. 

Based on the way it was shot, Henry Miller was charging at John Henry and Superman would not have been able to intervene in time.  Was he expecting JH to dodge instead of swinging his hammer?  It's not like he walked up to a defeated Henry and laid the smackdown on him.

6 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I guess we're suppose to think Irons is going too far by keeping Bruno from seeing Peia until he turns his stuff over and then killing Henry Miller, but I kind of understand why.  Not only did Peia literally try to kill him in cold blood, but we've seen way too many times (on this show and others) how letting your guard down with the baddies just leads to them somehow escaping and even regaining the upper hand. 

Yeah, we shouldn't be glossing over the fact that Bruno and Peia are murderers, so how many privileges should they be given, especially since they're looking for the stolen stuff?  Although it seems like the Bizarro lab is in the basement of Bruno's building, so wouldn't that be the first place for Superman/the DoD/JH to look?

That being said, Mateo should have been allowed to see her.  He might be oblivious but he's also an innocent kid whose mom might be dead in a couple of weeks.  

Edited May 24, 2023 by baldryanr

[DanaK]

2 hours ago, baldryanr said:

Lois must use the same skin cream as Team Flash because she looks exactly the same today as she did 17 years ago. 

Based on the way it was shot, Henry Miller was charging at John Henry and Superman would not have been able to intervene in time.  Was he expecting JH to dodge instead of swinging his hammer?  It's not like he walked up to a defeated Henry and laid the smackdown on him.

And Henry had already died before being resurrected so now he’s back to being dead. Does that count as killing someone?

[Lady Calypso]

So, I found this episode to be the weakest of the season, though not the worst episode from the series and it still had some great moments.

I think a lot of the weak moments had to do with the show's perspective of John Henry being in the wrong when I do think he's been right about some of his actions. I don't think he was right in his very emotional reaction and immediately jumping to piss Bruno off by sending the DOD to raid his home, but his mindset was right in that Bruno IS a problem and not all problems can be solved by talking it out. Even though Superman visiting Bruno almost convinced him to give up the evidence, John Henry isn't wrong to take Bruno as a threat seriously. Bruno's being treated with kid gloves because of his sick wife. If Superman didn't relate, he wouldn't be so gentle with his approach. Not that he'd go the John Henry way, but he wouldn't be trying to give Bruno so many chances.

However, that's what I love about this plot. It's so nuanced and has layers to it that there's no easy decision. I think Superman and John Henry could easily find a compromise that's a win-win. 

I do think Superman was wrong to judge John Henry killing Henry Miller. His life was in danger. It was, in fact, necessary and I hope the show sees it that way. Sometimes, killing IS necessary. Leaving Henry Miller alive would have likely ended in John Henry's death OR led to more deaths once Miller eventually escaped. 

I don't like Nat being so chill about Mateo's family stuff, and being so mad at her dad, but I get it. This is the first time in her teenage years that she can actually BE a teenager. And teens do dumb shit all the time. Look at Mateo telling Natalie that her dad essentially deserved to die by his mother's hand because he took her away from him and he's not a good guy. Look at Natalie completely brushing that off later on. 

And I get Mateo's anger. The DOD could at LEAST allow Mateo to see his mother, even if they can't let Bruno see her. I'm guessing they don't trust Mateo and are playing it safe, but I still get his anger at them and rightfully so. But now, at this point, Mateo will be brought into Bruno's nefarious plans and even if Mateo did get to see Peia, he'll likely be ordered by his father to plant something or do something while inside. 

Jon/Jordan's plot was fine, I do appreciate them making up (and Sarah facilitating it). I don't like when the twins are at odds.

The discussions on Lois' cancer and double masectomy were my favourite parts of the episode. This season has been handling the sensitive topic with such care and I really appreciate that. It really makes this one of my favourite seasons of the Arrowverse (even though I guess the show isn't part of the Arrowverse anymore) and one of my favourite seasons of TV in a long time. 

Lois and Lana get to finally share a scene together that's really beautiful and needed. 

Wonderful episode still, even in its weakest parts.

[blackwing]

I think they should have skipped the flashback scenes from 17 years ago.  Talking about their wedding, giving her the dress, going to the awards ceremony etc.  17 years ago and Clark looks EXACTLY the same which I guess maybe because he's Superman, while Lois's youth seems to be denoted by her pulling her hair back into a ponytail?  Still looked every bit in her 40s.

So John and DOD demanded a bunch of items including Bizarro.  I found it interesting that they know that Bruno has Bizarro.  How?  I recall the scene where Peia stole the data with that doohickey which had the info on all the DOD black sites, then the scene of Bruno going and getting Bizarro.  I don't think we saw a scene of Sam discussing that Bizarro had been taken?

Bruno was going to give DOD the requested items but then John came in with Sam and blew the deal.  So Bruno gets to keep Bizarro and all the items, and now what?  Clearly Bruno sent Henry Miller to kill John, and now Henry is dead.  Why isn't DOD putting Bruno into custody for attempted murder?

Jon >>>>>>>>> Jordan.  He's way more empathic and way more likeable to me. 

I know that the budget is expensive and all, but I've always wondered why we never see Clark and Lois going out on dates around the world.  When they were going on a date all dressed up, I thought he was going to take her to the Eiffel Tower or something.  Not just float up into the sky.  Maybe they did go somewhere, I'd like to have heard some kind of talk about where they were going.  Why be able to get anywhere in the world in seconds and not take advantage of it?

[Quark]

Not particularly impressed with this episode, but the acting was good.

The characters on this show need different names, they're all so similar!

[rmontro]

18 hours ago, DanaK said:

Wow this show, this season so far. If it ends up getting canceled, at least it will have had a fantastic season instead of the lackluster previous season. That ending was wonderful

This show seems to be a cut above most of the other shows on CW, so I hope it doesn't get cancelled.  This episode got pretty mushy though.  I did like Clark's admission that as a man, he didn't know what it was like to have breasts, or to lose them.

[tennisgurl]

Lois and Clark looking exactly the same seventeen years ago as they do now is pretty hilarious, but the flashbacks were still really cute, I always like seeing different parts of their relationship. This was another really good episode with a lot of complexities. I really hope that this show is saved from the CW purge, it really is a gem and they should be proud to have this be a part of the Superman legacy. 

Everything with John Henry and Bruno was really interesting and complicated, I really can see so many sides. Clark probably is being affected by his own situation when it comes to letting Bruno see Peia, but that doesn't mean that he's incapable to doing what needs to be done. John Henry is right that Bruno is a real threat and that he and Peia are dangerous murderers who have tried to kill John Henry on numerous occasions, but doing all of this instead of working with Clark and Sam seems like a bad way to handle things. And regardless of what Bruno and Peia have done, its not right to keep Mateo from seeing his seriously ill mother. He's an innocent kid who hasn't done anything wrong who's life is falling apart, they should let at least him see his mom and its messed up that they wont. 

Lois and Lana talking very frankly about Lois's fears regarding possibly losing her breasts was great to see, its so rare to see that kind of real talk on television, let alone an Arrowverse show, and Elizabeth Tulloch and Emmanuelle Chriqui both did a great job. Lois knows, intellectually, that Clark will love her no matter what and she'll always be beautiful to him, but its totally understandable that she would still feel insecure about it. I fear that there will be more than one last round of cancer, I don't think we're out of the woods yet.

I like that Jon and Jordan's plot went on for a second episode and that they made up, I'm always sad when the twins are at odds. 

Edited May 25, 2023 by tennisgurl

[MissLucas]

I never expected this show to make such a stellar return after last season. But damn it really knocks it out of the park with everything about Lois' plot. The dialogue between her and Lana was incredibly well written and acted. And of course that last scene!

Loved Sarah forcing the twins into a brotherly hug and then joining in. The Lang/Cushing ladies had a very good episode, well except for poor Sophie.

Bruno Mannheim is definitely one of the best villains the show ever had - and kudos to Chad L. Coleman (who I keep calling Fred Johnson in my mind, sorry) for switching from terrifying to vulnerable in a second and oozing charisma in every scene.

I probably did not pay enough attention to that fight scene. I thought John Henry acted in self-defense? Apparently he had an option to stop Miller without using lethal force?

But yeah, not allowing Matteo to see his mom was a dick move.

Edited May 25, 2023 by MissLucas

[Affogato]

20 hours ago, blackwing said:

I think they should have skipped the flashback scenes from 17 years ago.  Talking about their wedding, giving her the dress, going to the awards ceremony etc.  17 years ago and Clark looks EXACTLY the same which I guess maybe because he's Superman, while Lois's youth seems to be denoted by her pulling her hair back into a ponytail?  Still looked every bit in her 40s.?

Bruno was going to give DOD the requested items but then John came in with Sam and blew the deal.  So Bruno gets to keep Bizarro and all the items, and now what?  Clearly Bruno sent Henry Miller to kill John, and now Henry is dead.  Why isn't DOD putting Bruno into custody for attempted murder?

Jon >>>>>>>>> Jordan.  He's way more empathic and way more likeable to me. 

 

The flashback scenes show us why the dress is important to the two leads. I can't see why the actors ages should bother you. If they do, perhaps consider that these scenes were like memory and Lois and Clark both think of her as being the older version. But I don't think it needs to be wanked. We all know people age.

I think the DOD doesn't have jurisdiction as law enforcement. Now, Peia is probably a US citizen and taking her under custody because of her metahumanity, is legally questionable, but they seem to have a mandate to protect the general population from superhumans.  Besides, although Mannheim may have told Miller to attack Irons, Miller actually decided to follow the orders, and was seen attacking Irons. Where is the proof about Mannheim? (Back to our intrepid reporters.)

It seems questionable that the DOD can legally keep Peia from seeing her family. Not because of the sentimental aspects, but because Peia should have rights. If she lives she can sue the DOD.

Jon is the nice, normal looking one. Anyone would guess he would be the more popular one in school. He's designed that way.

-------------------------------

I'm impressed by the amount of time they are allowing Lois in this story line, and that they are allowing all the women in the show to have relationships with other women, as an important part of the show. Yes, this is rare and precious.

I think Irons must be under a lot of stress. He knows family members he recognizes but doesn't know, this has to be disturbing. Lois is sick and possibly dying and he isn't involved, but he used to be married to her, and that can't be easy. Yes, he knows what is going on intellectually, but emotionally it must be devastating. It makes sense he'd want to protect and hold on to Natalie, even as she grows up and away from him.

Bizarro looked a lot better than the last time we saw him, so he may be adjusting to the new world.

I wonder if something to do with Luthor will allow Mannheim to achieve some redemption.

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Affogato

[GHScorpiosRule]

On 5/23/2023 at 9:00 PM, scarynikki12 said:

I don't say this often enough but I would kill to live in the Kent farmhouse.

Unpopular, but that's how I felt about the Kent farmhouse in Smallville. I just loved that kitchen, and the...family room? Living room? Where that fireplace was?

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 5/24/2023 at 2:21 PM, blackwing said:

So John and DOD demanded a bunch of items including Bizarro.  I found it interesting that they know that Bruno has Bizarro.  How?  I recall the scene where Peia stole the data with that doohickey which had the info on all the DOD black sites, then the scene of Bruno going and getting Bizarro.  I don't think we saw a scene of Sam discussing that Bizarro had been taken?

Yes, we did. Or rather, Sam told Clark about the sites that had been stolen from and one in particular gave him an "oh crap" expression and then we cut to Bizarro in Bruno's lab.

Also, even without that scene, they could hardly have failed to notice they were stolen from and who was missing. People will have been there when it happened.

On 5/25/2023 at 10:47 AM, Affogato said:

I'm impressed by the amount of time they are allowing Lois in this story line, and that they are allowing all the women in the show to have relationships with other women, as an important part of the show. Yes, this is rare and precious.

I agree. And also that Lois and Lana had an in-depth conversation about something that had nothing to do with superheroes. This is a hybrid genre show.

[bluvelvet]

Great show. Loved loved loved the Lois and Lana conversation. Also loved the Clark and Lois conversation at the end. Made me tear up. 

[moonshine71]

Finely coming back to the show after a while, wasn't really pulled into this season but figured I'd go ahead and finish it now that all the episodes are available.

Biggest take away...

Wow, I haven't always been John Henry's biggest cheerleader, but everyone else on this show can completely fuck the hell off right now, he's completely in the right.

1. No Clark, there wasn't another way. John should already be dead from the blows he took, he was COMPLETELY justified in using the means he had to defend himself. Miller just kicked Clark's ass, and he expects John to do what else...? Not everyone has the luxury of being invincible, Clark. 

2. Not only are Bruno and his wife murderers, they have stolen potential WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. Imagine if a terrorist was in possession of a stolen nuclear weapon or enriched uranium and someone floated that lame "but he should see his dying wife argument" without using it to leverage the return of those weapons. And that goes for his son, too. Idgaf if he's "innocent", you use any and all leverage you have. The person preventing Mateo from seeing his mother is Bruno, not John Henry. Natalie even said it, but was too stupid to understand she did. She asks John Henry, "Wouldn't you have done anything" for them to get a last chance to see her mother before she was killed. Apparently the answer is no for Bruno, because he clearly has a means to do that. And honestly, fuck Mateo, with his "your dad's not that great, either" line. Your parents are fucking murderers, asshole. Wah, John won't let you see your mom. Your dad could solve that at any time, blame him. And blame you parents for being FUCKING MURDERERS, otherwise there wouldn't be an issue at at all. And fuck Natalie for not shooting that bullshit straight down because she's... in love? With some dipshit she's been on like one date with? And he's clearly a dipshit it he didn't know about his parents. Honestly, I have no idea how this works. Bruno seems to be a pretty well known, public figure. But he had secret wife and child. But this almost adult child has never noticed that he and his mother were kept secret from the public?

Edited July 2, 2023 by moonshine71

[millennium]

Every party has a pooper, right?   While I thought the scenes with Lana and Lois and Clark and Lois were well done and very touching, and that it's an important topic that doesn't get the attention it needs ... I tune in expecting a Superman show, not a Lifetime Movie.   Superman and comic book heroes are supposed to be escapist fantasies but this show is depressing the hell out of me.