S04.E04: it takes a psycho

[PinkRibbons]

I feel that, as a life-long Angeleno, I have to crap on the Soho Hank idea because YOU DO NOT COMPARE THIS CITY TO NEW YORK. NoHo stand for North Hollywood (what I think of as The Valley although technically more the gateway to The Valley). There's a West Hollywood, which is its own city, and an East Hollywood that's...east. Then there's just Hollywood, which is an actual neighborhood that, while it does have the Hollywood Sign overhead and the Walk of Fame, is for the most part a very normal place. There actually is no South Hollywood, and therefore no LA SoHo.

On the helicopter thing: it's actually pretty regular background noise in (physical) Hollywood (although less so since the Pandemic). Movies still do grand openings there, as well as the Oscars and unveiling Walk of Fame Stars. You could say it's a shorthand for celebrity. I do however think that in this episode it was a police chopper searching for him that's meant to symbolize the idea that Barry could literally be anywhere.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

I feel that, as a life-long Angeleno, I have to crap on the Soho Hank idea because YOU DO NOT COMPARE THIS CITY TO NEW YORK. NoHo stand for North Hollywood (what I think of as The Valley although technically more the gateway to The Valley). There's a West Hollywood, which is its own city, and an East Hollywood that's...east. Then there's just Hollywood, which is an actual neighborhood that, while it does have the Hollywood Sign overhead and the Walk of Fame, is for the most part a very normal place. There actually is no South Hollywood, and therefore no LA SoHo.

I assumed any SoHo Hank would be from NYC.

And now I'm picturing a new character, also played by Anthony Carrigan, but dressed black with a Queens accent.

Edited May 2, 2023 by shapeshifter

[TVbitch]

Damn this has gotten dark. Last season had plenty of quirk and comedy to provide some relief to the violence, but this season there is very little of that. But then maybe that is the point, and Hader wants us to see that violence is just ugly and in real life there is no "relief." I hope the show is not suggesting that every character is just as sick and depraved as Barry. I mean, Hank and Fuches, yes, but Gene, Sally and Jim, no! 

I find it hard to believe Gene's son would just show up unannounced at the cabin, at night, given the situation and how frightened Gene was.

What was with the Hank actor dropping his accent in that last scene with Cristobal inside the house? I was like, what are they doing, he sounds like an American dude. Is there something we don't know about him?! But then didn't amount to anything, so I guess it didn't mean anything.

[tennisgurl]

"Damn..." really is quite the summary of the episode. Every five seconds I was gasping, so much happened. And now a time skip? We really are in the endgame here. 

All of those guys getting sucked into the sand was one of the more disturbing things the show has done, that was haunting, Hank sure does have a side that's cold as ice. That's not a side that Cristobal likes, which unfortunately sealed his fate. I knew as soon as Hank said that he couldn't leave because he knew too much I knew he was doomed, but it was still hard to see. At least Hank didn't have to fire the shot and he didn't die via sand, which seems way worse than getting shot.

I love how Barry only showed up at the last minute, but it felt like he was in every scene, his presence looming large. 

[EtheltoTillie]

Hey, not to be NYC-centric, but there's a NoHo in NYC too (it's the opposite of SoHo--North of Houston St)!  I didn't realize NoHo was also North Hollywood.  Now it makes more sense, actually, to think of NoHo Hank to be from North Hollywood. 

Edited May 5, 2023 by EtheltoTillie

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, TVbitch said:

 

I find it hard to believe Gene's son would just show up unannounced at the cabin, at night, given the situation and how frightened Gene was.

Gene's son might not have known.  Gene was only told about the escape once his lawyer found out himself once he got cell service back.

[carrps]

2 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Now it makes more sense, actually, to think of NoHo Hank to be from North Hollwood. 

Yeah, the Chechens are Vals.

 

[heatherchandler]

On 5/2/2023 at 2:51 PM, tennisgurl said:

All of those guys getting sucked into the sand was one of the more disturbing things the show has done, that was haunting,

I have been so bothered by this.  I have a major anxiety about not being able to breathe so I’m obsessing about how it would feel to be buried alive.  Do you just run out of air?  Do you inhale sand??  

[Joimiaroxeu]

Apparently Hank doesn't quite know what the term "busting your nuts" means.

Wonder how many times Sian Heder has been asked if she's related to Bill Hader?

That moment where Gene shot his son on the porch, sight unseen, was sadly prescient.

Poor Cristobal. After all he'd been through just to end up back in pretty much the same place, a virtual prison. I guess Hank knew they'd kill him, but ditto comments upthread, I wonder if Cristobal did. Perhaps he simply decided he'd rather be dead.

I've been watching Dune this week (in 30-minute blocks instead of all at once so I can avoid falling asleep) and seeing those guys get sucked into the sand hit different. That scene didn't horrify me as much as it likely would've otherwise.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Joimiaroxeu

[Amarsir]

It's really something how the echoed "I love you" exercise has continued to repeat through the last two seasons; usually desperate and unanswered.

What exactly are they holding Fuches on now? LAPD arrested him for killing Janice as The Raven, but they seemed to be all in on Barry once the Moss/Cosineau trap went down. Against Barry there would have been other charges too (which WitSec was willing to overlook). But if they really want to prosecute Barry for killing Janice, Fuches is necessary to connect him to the body so they should be nice to him. It seems to me he should have been out, threatened with at most a fraudulent 911 call, and he's only sitting in prison because the plot wants him there.

[Amarsir]

On 5/4/2023 at 12:10 AM, heatherchandler said:

I have been so bothered by this.  I have a major anxiety about not being able to breathe so I’m obsessing about how it would feel to be buried alive.  Do you just run out of air?  Do you inhale sand??  

Do you really want to know?

Spoiler

If your body is upright, it wouldn't be the sand getting into your orifices that's the problem. Keep your mouth closed and not much comes in through the nose. The problem is that sand is very very heavy and doesn't allow safe pockets. So what happens is you're compressed more and more and you suffocate not from lack of air but from it being impossible to inhale. This can and has happened even with a 6-foot recreational hole on a beach.

 

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Amarsir said:

What exactly are they holding Fuches on now? LAPD arrested him for killing Janice as The Raven, but they seemed to be all in on Barry once the Moss/Cosineau trap went down. Against Barry there would have been other charges too (which WitSec was willing to overlook). But if they really want to prosecute Barry for killing Janice, Fuches is necessary to connect him to the body so they should be nice to him. It seems to me he should have been out, threatened with at most a fraudulent 911 call, and he's only sitting in prison because the plot wants him there.

Good points. Janice Moss's father is going to be really mad if Barry, Fuches, and Cousinea all skate on Janice's murder. 
(I assume her father also hates Cousineau for getting Janice in the crosshairs of these mercenaries, in addition to blowing up the manhunt with his silly and literal theatrics.)

Edited May 5, 2023 by shapeshifter

[shapeshifter]

About the sand death: 
It's interesting to me that so many here are freaked out by it. 
I grew up seeing Lassie and other heroes rescue people from quicksand. It used to be a common plot device for reasons of economics: slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2010/08/terra_infirma.html
Kudos to Bill Hader and Alec Berg for having the vision to see this as the perfect moment to bring back a sand death to terrify a largely unsuspecting public.
Death by quasi quicksand wasn't anywhere on my radar, even with the whole sand importing plot point.

 

[sistermagpie]

52 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

About the sand death: 
It's interesting to me that so many here are freaked out by it. 
I grew up seeing Lassie and other heroes rescue people from quicksand. It used to be a common plot device for reasons of economics: slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2010/08/terra_infirma.html
Kudos to Bill Hader and Alec Berg for having the vision to see this as the perfect moment to bring back a sand death to terrify a largely unsuspecting public.
Death by quasi quicksand wasn't anywhere on my radar, even with the whole sand importing plot point.

 

I suspect that's why so many of us have thought so much about death via some kind of sand!

[meep.meep]

19 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

 

Poor Cristobal. After all he'd been through just to end up back in pretty much the same place, a virtual prison. I guess Hank knew they'd kill him, but ditto comments upthread, I wonder if Cristobal did. Perhaps he simply decided he'd rather be dead.

That was my read on Cristobal - Hank deceived him, killed all their men, and if he stayed he would just be trapped in the house.  He's not interested in being part of the Chechen family.  Why not take a chance on outrunning them?

As nifty a plot device and visual the sand trap was, I call bullshit.  There's no way a bunch of people being dragged down to their deaths are not going to struggle.  The sand should have been moving and you should have seen legs and arms and heads.  Not to mention hearing them cry out.  This was Heder's choice as director and to me it was a bad one.

[Amarsir]

14 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

About the sand death: 
It's interesting to me that so many here are freaked out by it. 
I grew up seeing Lassie and other heroes rescue people from quicksand. It used to be a common plot device for reasons of economics: slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2010/08/terra_infirma.html
Kudos to Bill Hader and Alec Berg for having the vision to see this as the perfect moment to bring back a sand death to terrify a largely unsuspecting public.
Death by quasi quicksand wasn't anywhere on my radar, even with the whole sand importing plot point.

 

Good read, but quicksand is a bit different. It's stable and contains enough water to allow (slow) motion and create gaps. What they experienced is closer to a sinkhole opening up beneath you and then being buried alive.

It is true though that quicksand has been a much smaller factor in my life than I was led to believe as a child. Also I've never been set on fire despite learning Stop, Drop, and Roll. Though I guess I don't begrudge knowing it.

10 hours ago, meep.meep said:

As nifty a plot device and visual the sand trap was, I call bullshit.  There's no way a bunch of people being dragged down to their deaths are not going to struggle.  The sand should have been moving and you should have seen legs and arms and heads.  Not to mention hearing them cry out.  This was Heder's choice as director and to me it was a bad one.

I agree. It was so calm that at first I thought the group was doing it on purpose for some reason.  My guess is that the stunt was so difficult to pull off they couldn't let the actors portray a struggle.

[Amarsir]

14 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Good points. Janice Moss's father is going to be really mad if Barry, Fuches, and Cousinea all skate on Janice's murder. 
(I assume her father also hates Cousineau for getting Janice in the crosshairs of these mercenaries, in addition to blowing up the manhunt with his silly and literal theatrics.)

After Cristobal died and Sally made the wrong choice (again), I don't think any main characters are getting a happy ending. At least Natalie seems to have found success as a happy and well-liked showrunner.

[Milburn Stone]

7 hours ago, Amarsir said:

I agree. It was so calm that at first I thought the group was doing it on purpose for some reason.  My guess is that the stunt was so difficult to pull off they couldn't let the actors portray a struggle.

With a show I really like--like this one--I will make up reasons to satisfactorily explain to myself the things I might otherwise question.

In this case, I "satisfactorily explained" to myself the reason they didn't struggle, which is that they were too shocked to do anything. They all feel the sand is as solid as Mother Earth. Before they can realize that what's happening is really happening, they're buried. All I can say is that it made sense to me.

I half want to know how they pulled off the stunt, and half don't. I assume there was just open space underneath maybe two feet of sand. (Which is obvious when I think about it, since this was done on a soundstage rather than an actual storage bin filled with millions of pounds of sand.) So the platform was elevated above the floor of the soundstage to allow space for the actors to slowly fall. Underneath the maybe-two-feet of sand upon which they stood was a motorized lower-able circular platform, which was slowly lowered to allow them and the sand to gradually collapse. That's all I can figure.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Milburn Stone

[shapeshifter]

15 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

With a show I really like--like this one--I will make up reasons to satisfactorily explain to myself the things I might otherwise question.

In this case, I "satisfactorily explained" to myself the reason they didn't struggle, which is that they were too shocked to do anything. They all feel the sand is as solid as Mother Earth. Before they can realize that what's happening is really happening, they're buried. All I can say is that it made sense to me.

I half want to know how they pulled off the stunt, and half don't. I assume there was just open space underneath maybe two feet of sand. (Which is obvious when I think about it, since this was done on a soundstage rather than an actual storage bin filled with millions of pounds of sand.) So the platform was elevated above the floor of the soundstage to allow space for the actors to slowly fall. Underneath the maybe-two-feet of sand upon which they stood was a motorized lower-able circular platform, which was slowly lowered to allow them and the sand to gradually collapse. That's all I can figure.

Or CGI.

[Milburn Stone]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Or CGI.

I thought about that, but it just didn't look like CGI to me.

Of course, CGI is getting better and better, and maybe it's reached the stage where it is undetectable to me. All I can say is that my gut is telling me, based on what I saw, that it was a practical effect. (Produced physically.) Or perhaps was a practical effect aided by a bit of computer enhancement. 

[meep.meep]

It wasnt CGI.  It was a circular platform that they all lay on and it was lowered slowly.  And it wasn't quicksand - it was supposed to be the dry sand that Hank and Christobal had acquired.  I don't usually complain about stunts, but this one was really bad.

[MJ Frog]

On 5/6/2023 at 8:36 AM, Milburn Stone said:

In this case, I "satisfactorily explained" to myself the reason they didn't struggle, which is that they were too shocked to do anything. They all feel the sand is as solid as Mother Earth. Before they can realize that what's happening is really happening, they're buried. All I can say is that it made sense to me.

Also, it just looked funnier.

[Cotypubby]

I’m a bit surprised to see so many here think the fantasy of Barry happily living with Sally and having kids was anything but his fantasy. It was even in the same middle-of-nowhere desert setting as all his other dream sequences. Come on, that’s not a real house.

[paramitch]

This made me so very sad. I loved Hank and Cristobal, darn it!

I was confused when Hank told Cristobal that he'd made his play for power reasons, when I thought it was very clear he was doing it because they were threatened and had no other choice. 

I'm not sure I totally bought Hank's acceptance of the necessity for Cristobal's death. That felt a little fast and forced to me. But Carrigan was fantastic in Hank's moment of grief on the couch. I definitely didn't think Cristobal understood that he was going to his death -- and it makes sense to me that he wouldn't. Hank had just saved his life already that very day. I just don't think he understood how far Hank was willing to go. Although, again, it was more a matter of Hank not really having a choice in the matter, so the framing of the situation felt odd to me.

I did like the fact that everyone around Hank has consistently and cheerfully accepted his relationship with Cristobal with no toxicity or bias. They may be killers, but at least they aren't homophobes!

And as adorable and funny as NoHo Hank is, he has always been pretty cold-blooded. He started out being present at a variety of murders and being very casual about them. He was also just so nice and charming it was easy to forget.

Speaking of cold-blooded, I loved seeing Sally try to steal the part from the Amazonian girl right in front of her (and the actress visibly did not understand that at all, just asking what she missed when Sally's back was to her.

Like most here, I figured Gene would inadvertently shoot someone else by mistake. There was no way Barry would've turned on the porch light. I hope his son is okay.

And I found it oddly moving that Fuches's loyalty to Barry affected the other prisoners. I know I should hate Fuches, but I somehow can't ever bring myself to do it. Stephen Root is just so damn good at making him vulnerable and somehow lovable.

I am stunned at the time jumps, meanwhile. I truly thought they were all Barry's bizarre dreams of a perfect future with Sally.

On 4/30/2023 at 10:49 PM, MrWhyt said:

I was so worried for Cristobal in the sand, actually breathed a sigh of relief when Hank got him out. But then he had to develop something resembling a conscience. 

That sequence was just superbly done. It was one of the most disturbing things I've seen in a long time, and the cut to black with the audio as we just heard Cristobal suffering and gasping for air was so tough.

On 5/1/2023 at 12:02 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Heh, yeah, the stuff with Sian Heder was definitely this show's little dig/homage to how award winning director/writers get caught up in the superhero; especially Marvel; game, after their initial hits and become part of that wheel.  Don't get me wrong: I love myself a good superhero film; hell, even enjoy some of the not so good ones as well; but I definitely get the whole idea of it being a sight to behold when the likes of Ryan Coogler, Chloe Zhao, arguably Taika Waititi, and other award winning artists are following their indie darlings with big budgeted CGI-fests.  Interesting that it sounded like that one manager had an idea of hiring Sally and while she might not have automatically gone back to where she use to be, it could have been a step in the right direction.  But, instead, she clearly decided not to go through with it.

I loved the air of resignation and ennui around the superhero movie, and loved seeing Paul McCrane as Mark, the agent giving Sally the advice about how to rebuild her career. I always love McCrane, and I also thought his character's advice to Sally was superb. Too bad she didn't take it.

On 5/1/2023 at 9:10 AM, carrps said:

Yeah, Gene's son is not dead. Yet.

The funniest line for me was when that bad actress's agent called Sally the "Entitled Vagina" instead of the "Entitled C-word."

Yeah, I actually liked that little detail. He was trying to be more respectful than just using the slur reference.

On 5/1/2023 at 11:48 AM, shapeshifter said:

Just in case this is not a purely rhetorical question:
Cristobal had just been rescued from the sand pit by Hank.
So Cristobal might be thinking that Hank will rescue him again because Cristobal believes Hank really does love him.

This was my take -- Cristobal had JUST been rescued by a very frantic Hank, so I really think he had no idea that Hank would actually sacrifice him.

On 5/1/2023 at 12:48 PM, iMonrey said:

This show has always been a balancing act between drama and comedy. There is a tendency for these types of "dramedies" to get darker and more serious as they go along, from Buffy the Vampire Slayer all the way to Breaking Bad. I'm more willing to forgive it here since it's a half-hour show and only four seasons long, but the problem is that it doesn't get the kind of Emmy love it should because it doesn't fit neatly into either a comedy or drama category and I think voters get confused/conflicted.

"Barry" has won 9 Emmys and dozens of Emmy nominations, across almost all comedy categories, so I don't think it's missing out on much Emmy love. 

On 5/1/2023 at 1:35 PM, Ottis said:

Side note, but ... I don't know why Last of Us is a success. The commercials alone tell you exactly what kind of show it is and you can guess what sort of things happen. I love Barry because of all the surprises.

It's not for everyone, but "The Last of Us" is a success because it's a beautifully written and produced show that's both moving and entertaining, and which explores some surprisingly deep questions about life, love, and survival. The commercials are great, but they don't reveal the depth and resonance of the show. It's certainly far more than the usual "zombie show."

[heatherchandler]

9 hours ago, paramitch said:

I always love McCrane

Dr. Rocket Romano!! 🚁

Not to get off subject but I watched all of the Last of Us because of Pedro Pascal, and I hated it, so boring.  Since the beginning, Barry has been so out of left field, silly, but also serious and darkly funny.  I don’t love this episode, but maybe this is a nod to David Chase (Sopranos) - when people want wackings, he gave them quiet drives through New Hampshire.

[paramitch]

4 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

Dr. Rocket Romano!! 🚁

Not to get off subject but I watched all of the Last of Us because of Pedro Pascal, and I hated it, so boring.  Since the beginning, Barry has been so out of left field, silly, but also serious and darkly funny.  I don’t love this episode, but maybe this is a nod to David Chase (Sopranos) - when people want wackings, he gave them quiet drives through New Hampshire.

Aw, poor Romano. I hated the way he was written by the final year or two. But always loved McCrane (luckily, he got to play non-assholes in plenty of other things).

Yeah, no worries on TLOU -- varying mileage is the spice of life! 

[shapeshifter]

More about real life death by sand: abc11.com/sand-dune-collapse-teen-killed-cape-hatteras/13223956

― which speaks to the difference between accident and murder for the victim and the viewer.

[rmontro]

Wasn't expecting the time skip.  I guess Sally agreed to the witness protection.  I wouldn't have guessed her going off with Barry, not sure he deserves it.

Poor Gene, unknowingly shooting his son.  Hader (or whoever) can sure come up with some messed up stuff.