S01.E12: Nothing Changed Except For Everything

[possibilities]

I think if Betty had been harmed, it would have been the end of Will. And maybe me, too... even though it's fiction. 

[CrystalBlue]

On 4/26/2023 at 5:03 PM, kaygeeret said:

I have loved this show from the first episode, strong acting and writing.  Great tv.

I had one issue this week with Amanda.  I am not hard of hearing, I heard her voice just fine, but I swear I missed 90% of her exposition.  Her speeches seemed mumbled to me as well as being spoken in a monotone and very, very quickly.

I don't know what was wrong.  

Does anyone know if the show is being rerun on one of the streaming networks?  Hulu maybe?  I need to rewatch.

 

I watch on Hulu, the regular with ads subscription.

[waaay2muchTV]

On 4/27/2023 at 1:56 PM, Orbert said:

Speaking of Angie not enunciating clearly, there was a scene near the beginning of the episode where Angie said "Captain Mitchell" but mumbled it so it sounded almost like "Kevin Mitchell".  And the closed captions said "Kevin Mitchell".  Wait, what?  She was talking to Evelyn, the former Captain Mitchell.

I always assumed that closed captions were done from a script, provided by the network or something.  Are they actually done by just someone sitting there transcribing everything they hear, even if what they heard doesn't make any sense?

I believe CC is done by transcription more often than not, as a hearing-impaired lifetime user of the service  It's funny sometimes when watching some old Aussie shows as I do how often "indecipherable" pops up in the middle of a sentence!

[dshgr]

My husband and I started using closed captioning a lot.  We are retired.  I recently realized we don't use it when streaming older programs (from before about 2000).  Upon further investigation, I've noticed newer shows (and movies) have much louder music and background noise, often drowning out dialog.  I don't know why.  Once noticed it has become very irritating.

[Clanstarling]

18 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

The lack of communication was so frustrating, but I do understand why no one was talking to each other about this investigation, which quickly turned very personal for everyone involved. I guessed that Lucy was Will's mom right before Amanda confirmed it, I guess that's one of the big reasons why she's been looking after Will all these years. She really should have told him the truth about his mom, or at least that she knew his mom, that she wanted him, and that she died before she could raise him. She didn't have to lead with her being a prostitute or that she was murdered by a serial killer, that could be a conversation for later.

Amen.

17 hours ago, DEL901 said:

I wish Amanda could have told Will that his mother put him in the dumpster to hide him from the killer, even if it wasn’t true.  

That would be a kind lie, at least.

I have so many questions about Will and Amanda's past now - especially given that Will had such terrible experiences in the system.

[kaygeeret]

10 hours ago, dshgr said:

My husband and I started using closed captioning a lot.  We are retired.  I recently realized we don't use it when streaming older programs (from before about 2000).  Upon further investigation, I've noticed newer shows (and movies) have much louder music and background noise, often drowning out dialog.  I don't know why.  Once noticed it has become very irritating.

OMG.  I think you have hit on it.  I loved the original Night Court and was profoundly disappointed in the reboot  primarily due to over the top loud laughter (where often none was needed) and quick monotone delivery.

It seems we have identified a deliberate ploy by someone for some unknown reason. :)

[Simba122504]

On 4/28/2023 at 8:31 AM, peachmangosteen said:

This show makes me wish the Emmys still recognized network TV.

The show is good and I enjoy it, but I believe it would be great on paid cable or streaming because more freedom. I'm not saying being explicit automatically makes a series better, but the writers who use to work for broadcast back in the day. Clearly moved to cable and streaming. 

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, Simba122504 said:

The show is good and I enjoy it, but I believe it would be great on paid cable or streaming because more freedom.

There's a double-edged sword to more freedom, though. So many shows on streaming (and even paid cable to a lesser extent) have bloated episode lengths that could use some editing.  And they are less likely to do episodic case-of-the-week storytelling.  IMO, the focus on self-contained episodes, even if there are also running character stories, are part of why the show is as good as it is.

[peachmangosteen]

6 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

There's a double-edged sword to more freedom, though. So many shows on streaming (and even paid cable to a lesser extent) have bloated episode lengths that could use some editing.  And they are less likely to do episodic case-of-the-week storytelling.  IMO, the focus on self-contained episodes, even if there are also running character stories, are part of why the show is as good as it is.

This so much.

[Simba122504]

10 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

There's a double-edged sword to more freedom, though. So many shows on streaming (and even paid cable to a lesser extent) have bloated episode lengths that could use some editing.  And they are less likely to do episodic case-of-the-week storytelling.  IMO, the focus on self-contained episodes, even if there are also running character stories, are part of why the show is as good.

The show is good but not great because it's on broadcast TV. The last decade broadcast TV was truly great was probably the '00s at most. I really enjoy the show and I'm glad it was renewed, but we're going to have agree to disagree. Broadcast TV became Walmart while Cable/Streaming became 5th Avenue. 🤷‍♀️

[cinsays]

18 minutes ago, Simba122504 said:

The show is good but not great because it's on broadcast TV. The last decade broadcast TV was truly great was probably the '00s at most. I really enjoy the show and I'm glad it was renewed, but we're going to have agree to disagree. Broadcast TV became Walmart while Cable/Streaming became 5th Avenue. 🤷‍♀️

and there's no room for both?

[DearEvette]

On 4/28/2023 at 9:31 AM, peachmangosteen said:

The casting for young Amanda was on par with the young Angie and young Will casting. She was mimicking her voice so well and looked a lot like her. The casting for young Evelyn sorta worked but not as well as the other 3.

Came here just to say this.  I continue to be impressed by their care in casting.  The look was correct (the actress Sydney Park is Blasian like Sonja Sohn) but it was the voice that got me.  She didn't have quite the low gravelly register, but it was enough with that you can assume Amanda's voice just got a littler lower as she aged. 

I also thought younger Evelyn was nicely cast. Her voice register is lighter and higher just like older Evelyn.  Also the younger two had a height differential like the older two with Amanda being slightly taller than Evelyn.  And I have to give them a shout out for younger Evelyn's hair.  That was 1980s black girl hair.  Also the neon earrings the prostitutes were wearing.

Speaking of.. I liked the small detail of these two WOC cops with the care package for the sex workers.

On a shallow note: Amanda's outfits this episode were fantastic! That first outfit --that duster jacket!  And then the plaid jacket and that belt with the big buckle she wore during lunch with Greg Germann.  LOVE.

Over all this was a good, well written, well acted episode.

I agree about the honest character work.  The conflict with them not talking to each other was frustrating, but man it was believable. And I could see where Amanda was coming from, people make stupid decisions in the name of doing what they think is best for someone. I can imagine you'd think someone might not want to know their mother was a prostitute killed by as serial killer.  But I also think Amanda was suffering under a massive load of guilt for not being there at the bus stop.

I also loved the scene of Angie and Will at their old foster home. That conversation felt so real, like two people actually gong down memory lane.  It is the small stuff like Angie who couldn't wait to  try nougat, that feels more real than reminiscing about important big swing moments.

I lowkey liked Faith and Ormewood working together. This exchange cracked me up.

Witness: "I know how this looks. I was old enough to be her father."

Faith: "Nobody was thinking that."

Ormewood: "I was thinking that."

Faith: "Okay, maybe I was too."

And So glad to see  MPG back.  The first scene with Betty was perfect also him trying to figure out PeePee Percy's legal name by assuming it was PeePee... Percival. LOL

Also PeePee Percy looked like a little weasel.

[peachmangosteen]

25 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Also the younger two had a height differential like the older two with Amanda being slightly taller than Evelyn. 

This was the slight miss for me since younger Evelyn was so much shorter than young Amanda. But hey, they both shrank as they got older and Amanda just shrank more lol.

[mrsbagnet]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

I also thought younger Evelyn was nicely cast. Her voice register is lighter and higher just like older Evelyn.  Also the younger two had a height differential like the older two with Amanda being slightly taller than Evelyn.  And I have to give them a shout out for younger Evelyn's hair.  That was 1980s black girl hair.  Also the neon earrings the prostitutes were wearing.

I was excited because she was the same actress who played Tonya on Everybody Hates Chris.

[Verovee]

My one complaint about this show is the bad guy is always so obvious. It’s always someone who stands out more than their part requires in an early scene. My husband and I have been correctly identifying “that person did it” since the second episode the minute they appeared on screen. So here I’ll be very surprised if the recognizable character actor with the one early scene doesn’t play a big part in the resolution. 

[AnimeMania]

12 hours ago, Verovee said:

My one complaint about this show is the bad guy is always so obvious. It’s always someone who stands out more than their part requires in an early scene. My husband and I have been correctly identifying “that person did it” since the second episode the minute they appeared on screen. So here I’ll be very surprised if the recognizable character actor with the one early scene doesn’t play a big part in the resolution. 

How could you Pee Pee Percival!

[possibilities]

I agree the show is not really a whodunnit in the tradition of most detective shows. It's more of a character drama, focusing on the lives of the detectives, as shown while they do their job, and also on how they work together (or not) while on the trail of the [usually quite obvious] "bad guys". It's an interesting twist on the usual, where detective dramas are like puzzles being solved about who is the bad guy, and character dramas focus on the private lives when folks are NOT at work. 

[chediavolo]

On 4/27/2023 at 1:56 PM, Orbert said:

Speaking of Angie not enunciating clearly, there was a scene near the beginning of the episode where Angie said "Captain Mitchell" but mumbled it so it sounded almost like "Kevin Mitchell".  And the closed captions said "Kevin Mitchell".  Wait, what?  She was talking to Evelyn, the former Captain Mitchell.

I always assumed that closed captions were done from a script, provided by the network or something.  Are they actually done by just someone sitting there transcribing everything they hear, even if what they heard doesn't make any sense?

It sounded like she could not pronounce “Evelyn” either. Maybe her years of drug abuse messed up her mind. 

I don’t know how I missed this! When did Wills mother give birth & why did she put him in the dumpster? Waxing she going to be helped by the 2 cops? 

[mrsbagnet]

4 hours ago, chediavolo said:

I don’t know how I missed this! When did Wills mother give birth & why did she put him in the dumpster? Waxing she going to be helped by the 2 cops? 

They were going to help her, but they showed up late to meet her because those two male officers made them type reports. By the time they got there to pick her up, she had already been taken by the kidnapper/murderer.

Edited May 6, 2023 by mrsbagnet

[chediavolo]

6 hours ago, mrsbagnet said:

They were going to help her, but they showed up late to meet her because those two male officers made them type reports. By the time they got there to pick her up, she had already been taken by the kidnapper/murderer.

Oh yes. I remember they were late. So I guess the kidnapper through the baby in the dumpster.😔

[DEL901]

2 minutes ago, chediavolo said:

Oh yes. I remember they were late. So I guess the kidnapper through the baby in the dumpster.😔

He kept the mom for a while but then she died in childbirth and he blamed Will all these years, instead of himself for her not having medical care.  

[catherinejane]

Just been shown in the uk

i am ashamed to admit it took me half the show before I realised there’s were 2 timelines! It was only when the councillor confirmed juice was dead I worked it all out as I’d just seen juice with the cops! 
 

the Lucy being pregnant made me think the killer (her client) was trying to find her kid (his kid). But that doesn’t quite make sense as she gave birth whilst kidnapped so killer could have had him then? And also known if baby was a boy or a girl I assume.

alao I’d they saw the article then will is right there and “looks like his mum” so why kill others to track him down?

 

have to wait for next week to see resolution!!

[Johannah]

On 6/14/2023 at 5:50 AM, catherinejane said:

Just been shown in the uk

i am ashamed to admit it took me half the show before I realised there’s were 2 timelines! It was only when the councillor confirmed juice was dead I worked it all out as I’d just seen juice with the cops! 
 

the Lucy being pregnant made me think the killer (her client) was trying to find her kid (his kid). But that doesn’t quite make sense as she gave birth whilst kidnapped so killer could have had him then? And also known if baby was a boy or a girl I assume.

alao I’d they saw the article then will is right there and “looks like his mum” so why kill others to track him down?

 

have to wait for next week to see resolution!!

I don't think the others were killed to track Will down.  He just wanted to make Will suffer as he suffered by Will "killing" his mother during childbirth.  So, the killer was killing the only family Will had - his foster brothers/sisters.  

It's been a while since I've seen this, but I remember others asking why others were killed to find Will and I had thought they were killed to punish Will.  But it's been a while and a million other police/mystery shows since, so I could be misremembering.

[akg]

On 4/29/2023 at 11:12 AM, dshgr said:

My husband and I started using closed captioning a lot.  We are retired.  I recently realized we don't use it when streaming older programs (from before about 2000).  Upon further investigation, I've noticed newer shows (and movies) have much louder music and background noise, often drowning out dialog.  I don't know why.  Once noticed it has become very irritating.

It's not in your head. I read an article somewhere investigating why this is and the conclusion was that no one has the budget or time to do better. Older shows had people controlling the sound levels on set and in the editing booth and would call actors in to re-do their lines if necessary. Modern production no longer allows for that kind of thing.

[Clanstarling]

17 hours ago, akg said:

It's not in your head. I read an article somewhere investigating why this is and the conclusion was that no one has the budget or time to do better. Older shows had people controlling the sound levels on set and in the editing booth and would call actors in to re-do their lines if necessary. Modern production no longer allows for that kind of thing.

I have definitely noticed the background music being louder. Background noise issues are part of my hearing issues, both on tv and in life in general. So I've been doing closed captioning for a long while now.   It helps a lot, and is occasionally amusing.

[Johannah]

4 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I have definitely noticed the background music being louder. Background noise issues are part of my hearing issues, both on tv and in life in general. So I've been doing closed captioning for a long while now.   It helps a lot, and is occasionally amusing.

If you really want to have fun, watch a sports program with CC on.  Between the names and sport terms, it can be hysterical.  The Orioles have a player named Santander and the CC called him Sand Sand Air. 

But, yes, having to use CC for shows like this one can be annoying, because you spend time reading and not watching the actors as much.  Frustrating.

[Clanstarling]

18 hours ago, Johannah said:

If you really want to have fun, watch a sports program with CC on.  Between the names and sport terms, it can be hysterical.  The Orioles have a player named Santander and the CC called him Sand Sand Air. 

But, yes, having to use CC for shows like this one can be annoying, because you spend time reading and not watching the actors as much.  Frustrating.

I've gotten to where I can mostly take in both all the acting and the captioning. But that's over a lot of years.

Live shows can be hysterical with CC, I agree. Our city council's meetings are CCd, and boy, do the captions come up with doozies.