S04.E14: Tongues Out

[jewel21]

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Owen enlists Paul's help in proving Kendra's innocence; Tommy deals with church gossipers over her relationship with Pastor Trevor.

Airdate: 04/25/2023

[Artsda]

This whole Pastor now ending the relationship because people know from church seems a bit stupid. Isn't this something he would have thought about on day 1 of pursuing Tommy?

Owen needs to learn to keep confidential info confidential especially when coming from family. 

Paul should be a detective. 

[Lady Calypso]

This was such a boring episode, I ended up walking away to do other things at the halfway point. 

7 hours ago, LtKelley said:

Since when is Paul some sort of master observer?

I FEEL like there was a plot at one point that revealed this but because the show couldn't give two craps about Paul in general, even with the few episodes he's had that focus on him, hell if I can remember when and what happened.

It was so obvious Kendra didn't kill her husband and I called it at some point that her husband was likely trying to kill her, once they didn't introduce some other potential suspect by the first commercial break. Shame that it looks like Kendra may stick around for a while longer, because she REALLY sucks. Owen risked his life for HER? HER, OF ALL PEOPLE? While his SON was listening on the phone to all this? Seriously? I get the paramedics were on their way and all but c'mon!

Otherwise, nice to see Gabriel again. I'm glad he admitted he was a dumbass for handing Owen the file on Kendra and to never listen to Owen again. 

I really also couldn't care less about Tommy's "scandal" with Pastor Trevor. I actually fast forwarded through whatever speech she gave at the end to win Trevor back, because I knew I would be getting second hand embarrassment from her begging her boyfriend to please not break up with her over gossip church goers. 

There were only two plots this episode and both were painfully boring and predictable. In fact, there's only been a small handful of episodes this season that have been good, and 95% of them have been Marjan-centric. So I guess that means we need more Marjan.

[iMonrey]

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There were only two plots this episode and both were painfully boring and predictable. I

This was a terrible episode. WTF do the writers think this show is? The crew didn't go out on one single 911 call. Not one. The whole episode was about a murder mystery and relationship crap. This isn't Melrose Place. And it wasn't even good drama. Owen has been playing undercover investigator all season long, do the writers think this is a CSI show? The Tommy and Trevor thing felt like something that should have taken place in the 1950s. Stupid all around. The only thing that could have redeemed it is if it turned out Kendra really was the murderer and killed Owen at the end.

[eel21788]

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Shame that it looks like Kendra may stick around for a while longer, because she REALLY sucks. 

I was really hoping that she was permanently dead, but there were too many plot holes in the scenario of her husband trying to kill her. I knew the writers wouldn't let it be successful. Too bad, now that she is the grieving widow, she is exactly Owen's type, so we're probably stuck with her for awhile. 

[marceline]

That foolishness with the church worked my nerves. Tommy walking in in that red dress like the Whore of Babylon was so much overkill. The whole time she was speaking from the pulpit I kept thinking of all the people in the pews how had absolutely no idea what any of this drama was about and who couldn't care less who the pastor is dating.

Edited April 26, 2023 by marceline

[DearEvette]

Pretty bad episode.  Not a single 911 call.  Really, show?  even by Lonestar standards this is bad.

I actually would have found Owen's storyline with Kendra way more interesting if she had been the guilty culprit.  Actually I would find the revolving door of Owen's women much more entertaining if it was a running gag that they were all some sort of criminal and it always ended with them going to jail for something and it was their involvement with Owen that finally got them caught.

13 hours ago, LtKelley said:

I called it. 

Since when is Paul some sort of master observer?

It was established in Season 1 when they went out on a call where an entire office got poisoned by their catered lunch.  Paul figured out what happened through his mad observation skillz.  But I don't think it was ever mentioned again until now.

The Tommy storyline was horrible from top to bottom. 

First, it was clumsily set up.  Why would they bring his clothes to the bible study and give them to him right there?  Who does that?  I assume he visits Tommy since they are dating?  He could pick them up then, or hey, tell him to meet them at the car and give it to him then?

Second, what the women were actually saying was garden variety gossip and speculation.  The congregation will speculate if their pastor is dating and gossip about it.  That is natural.  Hell, we do it with co-workers.  What they were saying wasn't actually malicious.  A bit risque, yes, but not malicious in an of itself.  Grace's interpretation of it was more problematic than what they were saying.

Third, I'd tell his dumb ass to let the doorknob hit him on the way out if his first reaction is to dump me on the basis of third hand gossip that hadn't even resulted in anything happening to him.  Also the assumption that his wife cheating on him would be viewed the same way as him dating a respected member of the community and a widow is dumb.  It is not the same thing.  One is an actual scandal that happened.  The other is not. 

Fourth, Was that a Sunday service.  Cuz, man, that was the saddest little Sunday service I ever saw in a black church.  LOL.  And sorry Tommy, but no one would call out a woman's church crown as a funny hat.  Come on!  Who writes this?  She would be drummed out of church more for that than for dating the Pastor! The church hat is a force of it's own -- a status symbol, a fashion statement, bragging rights, and can cost more than the rest of the outfit!

And finally, that entire walk down the middle of the (weirdly silent) church and the whole entire speech gave me second hand embarrassment. 

[MaryHedwig]

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Actually I would find the revolving door of Owen's women much more entertaining if it was a running gag that they were all some sort of criminal and it always ended with them going to jail for something and it was their involvement with Owen that finally got them caught.

Love this! Like a variation of the 'Carwright Curse' on Bonanza. (Third eligible sons who couldn't get a bride down the altar as something always went wrong/was revealed just before the wedding date..

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Second, what the women were actually saying was garden variety gossip and speculation.  The congregation will speculate if their pastor is dating and gossip about it.  That is natural.  Hell, we do it with co-workers.  What they were saying wasn't actually malicious.  A bit risque, yes, but not malicious in an of itself.  Grace's interpretation of it was more problematic than what they were saying.

Preach it, Sister!
Er. Ah. Excuse me for getting carried away.
But I totally agree.
But also: In a smallish congregation like that, didn't the ladies all know Tommy from before the new pastor came?
Didn't they know Tommy as a grieving widow?
So wouldn't those ladies be hoping and praying that Tommy and the new Pastor would live happily ever after together? 

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by shapeshifter

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, LtKelley said:

Kendra... and I really don't want her sticking around because this show doesn't need a millionaire girlfriend.

Yeah. Kendra's obscene wealth could be used as a source of humor, but it would still be obscene wealth. 
Maybe they can have her get cyberhacked and wind up penniless?
But then we'd be subjected to Poor Little Rich Girl humor, which I don't trust this show to do.
So she's just going to have give it all away.

 

[jcbrown]

10 hours ago, LtKelley said:

Even if Tommy was fucking Pastor Trevor while cosplaying as a Firefly space whore banging Captain Mal, as long as they weren't doing it on the altar while chanting "hail satan!" they weren't doing anything wrong...

You win the internet. 🤣

[Demian]

9 hours ago, DearEvette said:

And sorry Tommy, but no one would call out a woman's church crown as a funny hat.  Come on!  Who writes this?  She would be drummed out of church more for that than for dating the Pastor! The church hat is a force of it's own -- a status symbol, a fashion statement, bragging rights, and can cost more than the rest of the outfit!

Just quoting this because it needs more attention on its own.  Brava!

[Bruinsfan]

14 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Third, I'd tell his dumb ass to let the doorknob hit him on the way out if his first reaction is to dump me on the basis of third hand gossip that hadn't even resulted in anything happening to him.  Also the assumption that his wife cheating on him would be viewed the same way as him dating a respected member of the community and a widow is dumb.  It is not the same thing.  One is an actual scandal that happened.  The other is not. 

Amen! If I were Tommy I'd have had no problem with the wagging tongues, but a HUGE problem with someone I was dating breaking up with me once he found out that uninvolved third parties disapproved. The one moment I cheered for was her "Oh, and you never will again" reply when he said he'd never met anyone like her before.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Bruinsfan said:

Amen! If I were Tommy I'd have had no problem with the wagging tongues, but a HUGE problem with someone I was dating breaking up with me once he found out that uninvolved third parties disapproved. The one moment I cheered for was her "Oh, and you never will again" reply when he said he'd never met anyone like her before.

Yes.  
I might forgive him for my own peace of mind because his stated concern was not putting his daughter through another church scandal like when her mother had an affair while her father was pastor.

But I would never date him again.  
And I’d be pretty depressed about explaining to my tween daughters why we had to find another church — especially if they had close friends at the current church.

But based on all the camera closeups of the pastor’s daughter’s gleeful face, all his daughter ever wanted was to see her maternal parent person march down the aisle in a form-fitting red dress and take over the pulpit like she was the mixed biblical metaphor of a harlot overturning the tables of the people selling church offerings at a profit outside the church entrance, because if her pastor dad rebuked the gossipers, apparently he’d get fired.

Actually, that tracks with my now 40-year-old daughter saying she is still traumatized from seeing a teen pastor’s daughter having to apologize to the congregation for being pregnant.

So we get to see the gossipers taken down a peg by a strong, independent woman (Yay). 
but then the male pastor gets to make out with her at the pulpit (okay, maybe?).

But it was only women who were being judgmental? What about the guys saying stuff?

If only Grace had just ignored the “gossipers” comments instead of repeating them to Tommy, we could have had a couple more rescues.

[cmfran]

I still don't get why Kendra's husband would have poisoned a bottle of gin. Wouldn't there be a very strong chance of her wanting to share it with him since it was a sentimental thing? 

I assume the season finale will be the wedding, which will probably also involve some sort of disaster happening at the same time to show us that love conquers all.

[Bruinsfan]

It's probably TK's turn as the origin for whatever ridiculous drama unfolds, but we can be fairly sure he won't have any heretofore unknown wives or ex girlfriends crashing the wedding with a machine gun for the objections part of the ceremony. Or ex boyfriends for that matter—I don't recall ever seeing any of his exes. Probably any that escaped with their lives are happy to never cross paths with him again.

Maybe Lou I will return to rampage through the wedding guests?

Edited April 27, 2023 by Bruinsfan

[eel21788]

2 hours ago, LtKelley said:

our choir sometimes sings Lady Gaga's Born This Way as a church song

What about Bloody Mary?

Do you dance, dance, dance
With your hands, hands, hands
Above your head, head, head
Like Jesus said?

[eel21788]

1 minute ago, LtKelley said:

No but we get "Jesus was a Trans Kid" :)

Because he had long hair and wore a dress?

[tennisgurl]

This episode was just embarrassing, especially everything with Tommy. If my boyfriend broke up with me just because of a few gossiping old ladies, I would tell him to take a hike if he tried to get back together with me, even if he justified it with it being about his daughter. Who would possibly care that the pastor is dating Tommy, a well respected member of the church and a widow? Why is this show making such a big damn deal about Tommy dating a pastor? He's not a priest, he's allowed to date, and while I buy that there might be some gossip, its not worth all of this trouble. What the ladies said wasn't even that bad, just spicy, Grace really made it a bigger deal than it needed to be. Not to mention its indulging in some silly church lady stereotypes that the show usually avoids. I did at least get some giggles out of thinking of all those people in church watching Tommy give her big speech in her Jezebel red dress having no idea what's going on with this nonsense drama. This relationship has the stupidest problems, between the daughter and the church ladies, but I guess its still better than Tommy dating her brother in law. 

I wish that Kendra had actually been the killer, that at least might have made her a little more interesting. Even if she's not a murderer I don't like her or her relationship with Owen and I have no desire to see more of them. 

Seriously, why does this show have more crime stories than an episode of Law and Order now? Not even a single call or rescue in this one, a new 911 low. 

[iMonrey]

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Who would possibly care that the pastor is dating Tommy, a well respected member of the church and a widow?

Tommy should have whiplash because she expressed those very concerns to both Trevor and to Grace before she started dating Trevor, and both assured her that she shouldn't care if anyone gossiped about it. So why all of a sudden is Grace going "Uh-oh, people are talking and I don't like them talking about you like that!" Geez Grace, make up your damn mind. It's like whoever wrote this didn't see the earlier episodes.

[DearEvette]

7 hours ago, LtKelley said:

I really dislike that this show, when it depicts religious people, it either buys into stereotypes - the hat wearing gossipy biddies who probably get mad if you sit in their pew who hatefully judge anyone not Christian enough, and uses the setting to make the point that religious people are just less tolerant. 

But I think you hit the nail on the head upthread (And I agree with that assessment) that up until this really poorly written episode, I think the show has done a rather nice job of presenting faith as a matter-of-fact, everyday  thing that mirrors how most people handle their faith.  TV and news tends to skew to the sensational and dramatic.  But this show has by and large shown Grace, especially, and Judd as people who we know are religious and go to church and read the bible but don't preach and make others uncomfortable by forcing their belief system on others.  That is why this episode was such a needle scratch in that department.

It really demonstrates that whoever wrote this episode did a disservice to their characters. It was textbook bad storytelling because it elevated a poorly conceived plot over established characterizations.  This show is kinda bad on a lot of fronts, tbh, but they have been good at  keeping the core of their characters consistent. 

7 hours ago, LtKelley said:

our choir sometimes sings Lady Gaga's Born This Way as a church song.

My church growing up was never that progressive. But the bass guitarist, every single week, would play the opening bassline of Frankie Beverly and Maze's  'Joy and Pain' during the passing of the collection plate.  I was older and out of the church by the time I appreciated the meaning of that.  LOL.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I wish that Kendra had actually been the killer, that at least might have made her a little more interesting. Even if she's not a murderer I don't like her or her relationship with Owen and I have no desire to see more of them. 

Hey. The season's not over, is it? Kendra could still have murdered her first husband.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, LtKelley said:

You need to think bigger.

She could try to kill Owen as he tries to save her from a herd of cocaine snorting zebras that got loose from the zoo, after a racist Karen lit a cigarette and flicked it at a group of autistic transgender children.

She's trying to kill him because the bearded dragon that TK and Carlos got is full of blood diamonds she is smuggling to maintain her rich bitch lifestyle and she assumes that the couple will be too deeply in mourning to care if she steals their pet lizard. 

Or that Kendra is just going to try to kill the first person that decides to pursue the suspicious death of her first husband.

[squeezel]

I have pretty low expectations for this show - I really just want to be entertained - but this was ridiculous.  Maybe the season finale can be the gang playing Clue on game night.  And if Kendra was practically dead before the paramedics revived her, shouldn't she have been resting in the hospital bed and Owen should have been wheeled in to see her?

[cmfran]

11 hours ago, squeezel said:

I have pretty low expectations for this show - I really just want to be entertained - but this was ridiculous.  Maybe the season finale can be the gang playing Clue on game night.  And if Kendra was practically dead before the paramedics revived her, shouldn't she have been resting in the hospital bed and Owen should have been wheeled in to see her?

Right. She took a full shot of the poisoned gin, while Owen just ingested a small amount by contact.

[Bruinsfan]

If Kendra were age-appropriate for Owen it probably would have taken her a lot longer to recover from her near-fatal poisoning...

[Maverick]

On 4/27/2023 at 9:45 AM, cmfran said:

I assume the season finale will be the wedding, which will probably also involve some sort of disaster happening at the same time to show us that love conquers all.

 Armed firefighters will rappel into the church spraying bullets across the wedding party.   The episode will end with the church bells ringing as the entire cast lies motionless leaving us hanging until next fall when we find out who lives, who dies (spoiler alert, two tertiary characters we barely know) and that the entire plot was engineered by Billy Burke to overthrow the firehouse again. 

 Gina Torres was more Jessica Pearson than Tommy Vega in that church scene. 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 4/29/2023 at 9:37 PM, Bruinsfan said:

If Kendra were age-appropriate for Owen it probably would have taken her a lot longer to recover from her near-fatal poisoning...

Age appropriate for Owen or age appropriate for Rob Lowe? Because based on the flashback to him growing up in California they are way different numbers. 

Also Kendra is supposed to be crazy rich right? So why is she running from the cops with Owen and using his co-worker to figure out what happened, rather than just lawyering up and getting her attorney to find an investigator to figure that out.

[christie]

On 7/21/2023 at 5:47 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

Also Kendra is supposed to be crazy rich right? So why is she running from the cops with Owen and using his co-worker to figure out what happened, rather than just lawyering up and getting her attorney to find an investigator to figure that out.

Also, why stay with Owen? Why not start at a luxurious hotel?