Why Grammar Matters: A Place To Discuss Matters Of Grammar

[Yeah No]

I took this little gem in the hotel lobby this morning.

[fastiller]

This is a question that is on an old form from NYC Landmarks Preservation Commission called "FASTRACK SERVICE APPLICANT ACKNOWLEDGEMENT" (I can't tell you how much the single "t" in FASTRACK sends me twitching!).  

I'm inclined to answer "blue" or "eighty-five" or "floppy disks".

 

Edited May 20 by fastiller
typo; thanks @EtheltoTillie!!!

[EtheltoTillie]

Gentle reminder to @fastiller  I think you introduced a typo in your own comment. 

[fastiller]

10 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Gentle reminder to @fastiller  I think you introduced a typo in your own comment. 

Corrected!  Thanks!

[fairffaxx]

1 hour ago, fastiller said:

(I can't tell you how much the single "t" in FASTRACK sends me twitching!).

Don't worry -- "fastrack" isn't a real word anyhow.

[Milburn Stone]

The typo at the beginning of that is the least of its problems.

[Ancaster]

"If you didn't tell me" when the speaker means "If you hadn't told me".

Happens all the time on food shows - "If you didn't tell me this was vegetarian, I'd never have known."

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 5/21/2025 at 5:39 PM, Ancaster said:

"If you didn't tell me" when the speaker means "If you hadn't told me".

I wonder if that's a regional thing.  Like "I know her for 40 years" instead of "I've known her for 40 years."

[fairffaxx]

The language continues to deteriorate (or, as many would say, "evolve"):  "It's not safe for your cat to wonder around the street like that!"

I see "wonder" used instead of "wander" so often, though never the opposite.  One is no easier to spell or say than the other & they don't really sound alike, nor do they mean the same thing -- they're not technical or complicated terms.  How does this happen, & why?  Is it just because people don't read anymore?  So many questions.... 😼

[Quof]

Try making people understand that "weary", "wary" and "leery" are not interchangeable.  

[shapeshifter]

51 minutes ago, fairffaxx said:

The language continues to deteriorate (or, as many would say, "evolve"):  "It's not safe for your cat to wonder around the street like that!"

I see "wonder" used instead of "wander" so often, though never the opposite.  One is no easier to spell or say than the other & they don't really sound alike, nor do they mean the same thing -- they're not technical or complicated terms.  How does this happen, & why?  Is it just because people don't read anymore?  So many questions.... 😼

Some American accents in the Northeast do pronounce them the same, so that's probably the origin of the error, and, alas, spell check doesn't see anything amiss.

That said, cats are known to be very curious. Perhaps they do sort of "wonder around"?
😉🐱

[fairffaxx]

There's no question in my mind that cats do wonder while wandering, & vice versa, but that doesn't make me feel better about what's happening to the poor English language.

If the 2 words are pronounced the same down east, you're probably right about the origin -- but who knew that area had such a farflung influence on the rest of the country?  And I agree that spellcheck is much too limited to help with this.

[SoMuchTV]

Recently ran across in a different forum:  "Another word..." instead of "In other words..."

It actually does make some sense, though, as long as you take the word "word" figuratively and not literally.

[Quof]

That's right up there with "nother".   

" A whole nother thing"

Monica Geller "That's not even a word!!!"

[meep.meep]

Monica Geller's friend, "It's a moo point"

I do really like suposably

[Quof]

18 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

"It's a moo point"

That was Joey.  My colleagues and I all boast we will drop that line in Court one day, but so far no one has.  

[fastiller]

 

Nother 'traces back to the early 14th century.'

Merriam-Webster

[SweetieDarling]

21 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

Recently ran across in a different forum:  "Another word..." instead of "In other words..."

It actually does make some sense, though, as long as you take the word "word" figuratively and not literally.

That's a new one, but I could see that happening with voice to text

[StatisticalOutlier]

000000

On 5/25/2025 at 9:57 AM, Quof said:

That's right up there with "nother".   

" A whole nother thing"

I wouldn't use it in formal writing, but in speech or an email to a friend, I like it.

[EtheltoTillie]

https://www.wsj.com/business/welcome-in-the-two-word-greeting-thats-taking-over-and-driving-shoppers-nuts-8443421f?st=FAhEKG&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Here's a gift link from today's WSJ.  It discusses a trend where people say "welcome in" instead of "welcome."  I have not heard this one myself, but now I'll be listening for it. 

[fairffaxx]

Stores in the San Francisco Bay Area that are trying to keep track of potential shoplifters (i.e., everyone who enters the premises) all require the cashier at the checkout counter closest to the front door to greet everyone with "Welcome in!" & a great big smile.  Maybe the trend is working its way east.

[Absolom]

I hope not.  This sounds like something that needs to die a quick death.  

[Bastet]

I just heard "Welcome in" for the first time this weekend, said a couple of times by a character in a movie, but I watched quite a few movies this weekend and the character was minor, and in just one scene, so I can't remember which one it was.  I do remember the character was from another country, so I figured it was something said elsewhere, but that article says its origin is unknown.  

[EtheltoTillie]

Here in NYC the only thing I notice is that CVS stores have greeters at the front, but they say "welcome to CVS." 

[annzeepark914]

40 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I just heard "Welcome in" for the first time this weekend, said a couple of times by a character in a movie, but I watched quite a few movies this weekend and the character was minor, and in just one scene, so I can't remember which one it was.  I do remember the character was from another country, so I figured it was something said elsewhere, but that article says its origin is unknown.  

Maybe it's related to "velkommen" which, in German and several other northern European countries, means "welcome". But in so many languages translations, it's not really a word-for-word translation. So I can see someone 🙄 taking the translation too far & adding "in" to just a simple "welcome".  

[Bastet]

26 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

Maybe it's related to "velkommen"

That's wondered about in the article:
 

Quote

Speculation abounds on the origin of the phrase. 

Is it a homey Southern greeting that went national? A line from one corporate chain’s training manual that other businesses adopted? An awkward adaptation of “willkommen,” the German word for welcome?

None of those theories are backed by strong evidence, and tracing the roots of “welcome in” has proved to be elusive.

 

Edited 23 hours ago by Bastet

[annzeepark914]

Well, IMO it's more than an adaptation. It's adding another English word when "velkomm*en* does not mean/translate to welcome in. 

[Zella]

I can't say I have ever heard that phrase before. And I live in a small Southern town that really likes to greet people. LOL

[Yeah No]

8 hours ago, Absolom said:

I hope not.  This sounds like something that needs to die a quick death.  

Agreed. I've never heard it up here in CT and I hope I never do. We're not really the "welcome in" type up here anyway, at least not these days. I don't even see Walmart greeters anymore.

7 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Here in NYC the only thing I notice is that CVS stores have greeters at the front, but they say "welcome to CVS." 

I noticed that. Meanwhile at the CVS stores here in CT you're lucky to see a human being manning the checkout.

We do have some pretty welcoming robots patrolling our supermarkets, though.

[Quof]

I hate unnecessary prepositions.  "Meet people where they are at."  NO.  You meet them "where they are." Full stop.   

Would one say "welcome in" if they were outside?  Serious question. 

[Lugal]

19 hours ago, fairffaxx said:

Stores in the San Francisco Bay Area that are trying to keep track of potential shoplifters (i.e., everyone who enters the premises) all require the cashier at the checkout counter closest to the front door to greet everyone with "Welcome in!" & a great big smile.  Maybe the trend is working its way east.

Having worked retail, I can tell you that the employees probably hate it just as much if not more (and not even for any grammatical problems).  Forced spiels and fake happiness is the ninth circle of retail hell.

[fairffaxx]

For me, dealing with the public at all would be the 9th circle, let alone being forced to smile & pretend to care about their good day!