Chit-Chat: What's On Your Mind Today?

[BetyBee]

On 6/3/2024 at 5:24 PM, bluegirl147 said:

A few years I noticed I was usually the person who texted people first when it came to just wanting to chat.  I decided to stop doing that.  And you know what happened?  I started texting with fewer people.   I'm pretty sure there are some people who still haven't noticed they haven't gotten a text from me in a few years.  And that is OK.  As you get older when it comes to friends quality becomes more important than quantity.

This! For years my younger sister and I texted on a daily basis. Jokey texts, caring texts, how ya doin'? texts. Since my mother passed and my golden child oldest sister took command of the estate, I noticed that baby sister cut way back on our texts. When my narcissistic older sister decided to make my husband a bad guy (she does this with all of her bils on both sides), my little sister was cowed by her and rarely texted any more. It's been devastating to me to realize that they are writing me off over nothing, just because they need an enemy. Since I am also dealing with a health scare, I'm feeling bereft and feelings of being unlovable, old feelings from growing up in a dysfunctional family, have sprung up. Last night I lay in bed counting my blessings - wonderful, loving husband, caring and accomplished daughters and adorable grandchildren. All are loving to me (and beloved by me!) and I realized that I'm not needy. I will survive even if my sisters choose to cut me out. I also have 3 brothers, two of whom I'm close with. I have a lot of love in my life, including a few close friends.  It's been difficult since Mom passed. My eczema has flared up for months. But I don't have time in my life for needless drama. So I text less and keep it shallow when I do, with my sisters. I won't let it bring me down. I'm actually thankful that their behavior has opened my eyes to reality. I've always tended to excuse poor behavior from family members. Quality is far more important than quantity when it comes to friendship. 

[Ohiopirate02]

14 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

shapeshifter's Ghosting Axiom
The ghoster has too many obligations on their plate.
They have likely acquired a partner and/or children and/or dependent parent and/or high-maintenance pet and/or a second job and/or their home blew away in a storm etc. etc. 
So they've decided to phase out people they rarely see, and are definitely not interested in rekindling old friendships.

Or they phase out everyone who does not fit into their new life as part of a couple usually because said friend is single.  You could have talked to the person at least once a week, hung out multiple times a month, but as soon as she has a man, she has no time for you.  This situation has happened to me before where a friend has dropped me to now be friends with the girlfriends of her partner's friends.  Still remember getting her wedding invitation.  I was living in a different state when she sent it to my parents' house (late, and I know her mother was well versed in the correct etiquette.  Bitch sent that invite as a money grab). 

ETA--There's also the possibility that the friend who ghosted you will suddenly have time for you when their relationship ends.  I do believe this behavior says more about the friend than you and the friendship she had before.  Some women care more about being in a romantic relationship with a man than anything else.  

Edited June 7 by Ohiopirate02

[lookeyloo]

When my Sweet Son was diagnosed with cancer in 2019 people I thought were good friends just dropped me.  He died in 2020 and they couldn't even manage a sympathy card.  I chalked it up to his condition registered as fear with them that it could happen to them or raised up issues if it had already happened and they just didn't know how to deal or fell into "I didn't know what to say" so said nothing.  Before his diagnosis I thought I had these friends.  After, I just knew I had to go on without them.  Sad, yes.  Also manageable after my great loss.

[Yeah No]

16 hours ago, Bastet said:

Not very odd, but, yes, I'd find a phone call odd.  An email I'd be fine with, but a call out of the blue after all that time would feel intrusive to me.  But I wouldn't be rude if I got a call like that, I'd just keep the conversation short and make sure there wasn't any false "we should keep in touch" sentiment at the end of it. 

(I don't use Linkedin, but if I did, I'd consider that an opening to potentially message me through the site, on a networking level, not contact me socially, but if I got a social email I wouldn't find that odd, just a call after so many years.  Especially since, when you'd called her 20 years earlier, she didn't call back.)

This was 20+ years ago before people had pretty much ditched phone calls as a first point of contact with anyone.  I wanted to message her through the site but since she accepted my Linkedin invitation I had let my membership lapse and in those days when the site was new they wouldn't let you message anyone without a paying membership.  I think that might have changed later.   And I don't remember why I didn't email her but there had to be a reason like maybe it wasn't on her profile or I forgot to write it down before my membership lapsed.

Actually, now that I think about it,  I didn't just call her expecting to get her on the phone.  I deliberately called her on her work phone late in the evening so I knew I would get her voicemail.  I was not going to put anyone on the spot like that and I didn't feel comfortable doing it either.  As an admin. I knew phone etiquette pretty well and it's just not my way to be intrusive.  I gave her the option of how to respond.  I think I even gave her my email address in the message to make it easier for her. 

She called me back the next day.  I remember it well.  My husband and I were driving in the car on our way to NY to visit friends.  I couldn't believe the way she acted.  She could have blown off my call altogether or emailed me but she chose to call me back just to tell me she didn't talk to "people from the internet" as if I was a stranger, and how I didn't know the half of "what happened" in her life since we we knew each other.  Seriously, it was all kinds of "off".  I asked her why she accepted my invitation but nothing she said made any sense.  I knew there were big issues there and it saddened me.  Looking back on it I realized that her home life never looked too happy.  Whenever I was around her mother she was always in a bad mood and I never saw her interact with her daughter other than to yell at her or tell her what to do.  I always felt like I was walking on eggshells whenever I was around her.  I tend to think now that my friend was hiding a lot and yes, I didn't know the half of it.  But to be frank, a lot of the people I grew up with had serious problems, she just hid hers better than most.  I wouldn't have expected her to go into all that.  A nice "hello and how are you" would have sufficed.  Even her sister gave me that courtesy on Facebook and I didn't really have much of a relationship with her.

Obviously as kids we never got too deep into anything so why she expected my contacting her to be about pumping her for details or whatever she thought it would be is beyond me.  It's not my way and never has been.  She was very shy and awkward as a kid and I don't think she ever developed the social skills I did, not that mine were stellar or anything but I know I had more.  She was a very rational, thinking type, probably an INTJ.  We had a lot in common but she didn't have much grasp of the feeling side of life, not just as a function of type because many INTJs have a better grasp than her.  Her profession was an accountant in a big company.  I worked for accountants for many years. 

P.S.  It just dawned on me that if she had a paying Linkedin membership she could have messaged me through it because I think that was allowed, or gotten my email address from my profile and written to me even if I didn't give her that in my message.

[Yeah No]

16 hours ago, Bastet said:

This was 20ish years ago when there wasn't such a widespread mentality that unscheduled calls are reserved for emergencies (which isn't a philosophy I share, but I understand it's a common one).  The reason I'd think an email was more appropriate under those circumstances is the completely unexpected nature of it, nearly 20 years after we'd last spoken (with that conversation having itself been an anomaly that was not repeated) -- with an email, I can think about if I want to respond, and if, so, how (especially if what I want to do is politely say it's nice to hear from you in a way that doesn't imply I want to keep hearing from you) and do so on my timetable, whereas with a phone call I'm put on the spot in the moment.

Yes, I agree and even 20+ years ago as an admin. to high level execs. I had to know phone and email etiquette and I never goofed on that or it could have cost me my job.  In fact, that was always one of my best skills having cut my teeth while working as the major point of contact at my university's undergrad. admissions office.  And when I contacted this woman I was very careful and dipped my toe in lightly and carefully.  Knowing me I probably apologized for calling her but explained why and then gave her the opportunity to write back.  My memory on the details is still a little fuzzy but I remember now that I left her a message in the evening and got a call back from her.  The response I got was completely inappropriate to the way I handled it in my opinion.  I can understand why people reading my story here might have thought I didn't handle it well but I know I did.  I am just saddened that people jump to the worst possible conclusion like I was being intrusive or out of the blue.  I appreciate how you've understood this, thank you.

Edited June 7 by Yeah No

[bluegirl147]

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

She could have blown off my call altogether or emailed me but she chose to call me back just to tell me she didn't talk to "people from the internet" as if I was a stranger, and how I didn't know the half of "what happened" in her life since we we knew each other.

That right there tells me she had issues that had nothing to do with you. If she truly had no interest in talking to you she would have ignored the call or yes email you to say she wasn't interested in talking to you. 

3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Some women care more about being in a romantic relationship with a man than anything else.  

This goes the other way too.  I mentioned a male coworker earlier.  When he didn't have a woman in his life he was all about being friends with me. But as soon as a new woman came into his life he couldn't be bothered. 

3 hours ago, BetyBee said:

Quality is far more important than quantity when it comes to friendship. 

I think that is a lesson we all eventually learn.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, BetyBee said:

This! For years my younger sister and I texted on a daily basis. Jokey texts, caring texts, how ya doin'? texts. Since my mother passed and my golden child oldest sister took command of the estate, I noticed that baby sister cut way back on our texts. When my narcissistic older sister decided to make my husband a bad guy (she does this with all of her bils on both sides), my little sister was cowed by her and rarely texted any more. It's been devastating to me to realize that they are writing me off over nothing, just because they need an enemy. Since I am also dealing with a health scare, I'm feeling bereft and feelings of being unlovable, old feelings from growing up in a dysfunctional family, have sprung up. Last night I lay in bed counting my blessings - wonderful, loving husband, caring and accomplished daughters and adorable grandchildren. All are loving to me (and beloved by me!) and I realized that I'm not needy. I will survive even if my sisters choose to cut me out. I also have 3 brothers, two of whom I'm close with. I have a lot of love in my life, including a few close friends.  It's been difficult since Mom passed. My eczema has flared up for months. But I don't have time in my life for needless drama. So I text less and keep it shallow when I do, with my sisters. I won't let it bring me down. I'm actually thankful that their behavior has opened my eyes to reality. I've always tended to excuse poor behavior from family members. Quality is far more important than quantity when it comes to friendship. 

The death of our parents also brought into focus the dysfunctionality of my relationship with my only sister. 
It's been almost 5 and 10 years since each of them passed, and my sister and I are now hovering in our usual pattern of truce. 
As I type this I'm thinking of inviting her to "join" me in one of my video therapy sessions.
Of course I'd have to ask my therapist first, since there may be legal reasons this couldn't work. 
I was thinking of something informal, like having her on FaceTime on my phone while the video session with my therapist is on my laptop. 

[Dimity]

4 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

He died in 2020 and they couldn't even manage a sympathy card.

This happened to us after my sister died.  Anyone out there who thinks the bereaved relatives won't notice that you didn't offer any sympathy either in person, by phone or through the simple sending of a card well, you are probably wrong.  We notice.   I will never feel the same towards some of our extended family given they, for whatever reasons (and I don't care what those reasons were), didn't even take the trouble to acknowledge our loss. 

[bluegirl147]

8 minutes ago, Dimity said:

Anyone out there who thinks the bereaved relatives won't notice that you didn't offer any sympathy either in person, by phone or through the simple sending of a card well, you are probably wrong.  We notice.

Coincidentally my husband died 12 years ago today. Other than immediate family and a few extended family nobody reached out to me.  Even after I told a couple people hey I don't know if so and so knows or not but my husband died. These were people who my husband had been close to.  Guess not so close after all.  

[Absolom]

When my next door neighbor's wife died, my neighbor on my other side and I put together a dinner, small flowers, and a card and took it over after asking his son what would be a good day to do it.  The neighbor watched for us to be outside and came up to us crying as no one else even family had done even that much.  We barely knew the woman as she was his third or fourth wife. It was just the neighborly thing to do we thought. He'd been our neighbor for over thirty years. You never know what will impact people.  When the neighbor himself was dying his son asked if we could replicate the meal for his father as he'd never stopped talking about it.  It was the last time we saw him alive.

[Bastet]

About five months before she died, Lisa Marie Presley wrote an essay for People on National Grief Awareness Day about what she'd been living with since her son's death two years prior.  It's really good, and I was reminded of it by the recent posts about people not reaching out to a friend suffering the death of a loved one, because she took that on:

Quote

Two, grief is incredibly lonely. Despite people coming in the heat of the moment to be there for you right after the loss takes place, they soon disappear and go on with their own lives and they kind of expect for you to do the same, especially after some time has passed. This includes "family" as well. If you're incredibly lucky, less than a handful will remain in contact with you after the first month or so. Unfortunately, that is a cold hard truth for most. So, if you know someone who lost a loved one, regardless of how long it's been, please call them to see how they are doing. Go visit them. They will really really appreciate it, more than you know …

Quote

This is where finding others who have experienced a similar loss can be the only way to go. Support groups that have your specific kind of loss in common. I go to them, and I hold them for other bereaved parents at my home.

Nothing, absolutely NOTHING takes away the pain, but finding support can sometimes help you feel a little bit less alone.

Your old "friends" and even your family can and will run for the hills.

The unrelenting reality is that you are FORCED into this horrendous "club," if you will, that you never wanted to be in or a part of, and you are FORCED to then, for lack of a better term, have to go and find your new people now.

I now truly cherish the few who have stayed in there with us throughout this entire nightmare process from the onset. And I have also now come to love and cherish my newfound friends who are in this same "club."

If I'm being honest, I can understand why people may want to avoid you once a terrible tragedy has struck. Especially a parent losing their child because it is truly your worst nightmare. I can recall a couple of times in my life where I knew parents who lost their child and while I could be there for them when it happened, I avoided them after and never bothered to follow up with them because they quite literally became a representative of my biggest fear. I also low-key judged them, and I swore I'd never do whatever it was that I felt they either did or neglected in their parental actions and choices with their child.

Quote

I'm saying all this, on this particular day, "National Grief Awareness Day," in the hopes that I can help raise some awareness of grief and loss. Just know after this day passes, for all your friends who have had a loved one die, every day is grief awareness day. I'm saying this, in the hopes that it helps someone who is suffering as I and my children suffer. In the hopes that maybe today or as soon as possible, you can reach out to someone who is grieving someone they loved and lost. Whether they lost a child, a parent, a spouse, a sibling, a fiancé, anyone.

Ask them how they're doing, ask them to talk about their person. Yes! We DO want to talk about them. That's how we keep them alive in our hearts, that's how they don't get forgotten, that is what keeps us alive as well. And do me a favor, don't tell them that "you can't imagine" their pain. The truth is, oh yes you can — you just don't want to.

 

Edited June 7 by Bastet

[Dimity]

55 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

These were people who my husband had been close to.  Guess not so close after all.  

I'm so sorry this happened to you.  We were fortunate in that most of our family and friends knew how to behave like decent human beings. I had a few friends, far nicer people than I am, make excused for people who ignored our loss by saying things like "oh this may have been their first experience with death" or "sometimes people just don't know what to say" or  "some people are afraid of death and can't cope with a funeral" or "everyone grieves differently".  I do not care.  If you are a functioning adult then you are perfectly capable of, at the bare minimum, sending a sympathy card.  

[bluegirl147]

1 minute ago, Dimity said:

If you are a functioning adult then you are perfectly capable of, at the bare minimum, sending a sympathy card.  

Or even a message on FB offering condolences. That is what I do when someone I'm not particularly close to loses someone. I reach out and say I'm so sorry and if you need anything let me know.  I'm old enough to remember people bringing casseroles or baked goods to someone's house when they lost a loved one.  Now you are lucky to get an acknowledge that someone even knows about your loss.

[Absolom]

1 hour ago, Dimity said:

 I will never feel the same towards some of our extended family given they, for whatever reasons (and I don't care what those reasons were), didn't even take the trouble to acknowledge our loss. 

Curiosity question and no reflection on Dimity, where do people consider the line where someone is one of the bereaved and you don't expect a card or anything and where people should express sympathy?  I remember when we had etiquette books for such questions and everyone sent flowers to funerals and memorial services even if they did it as a family group.  Things have really changed haven't they?

[BetyBee]

When my sister was sick (she has since passed away), her initial diagnosis was lung cancer. Nearly every person who knew about her illness just HAD to ask if she smoked. They seemed to need to know if her illness was her "fault". I think some people need to know details in order to comfort themselves that such an illness isn't likely to happen to them or to anyone they love. The thing is...cancer can happen to anyone and the death of a loved one eventually touches everyone on the planet. I really appreciated every kind word of sympathy when I lost my sister and later my Mom. I saved the sympathy cards and FB mentions will pop up again as memories. Some people are so kind and some are just oblivious to the pain others are feeling! 

Edited June 7 by BetyBee
Just wanted to clarify that I don't think cancer is anyone's fault!

[Anela]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

The death of our parents also brought into focus the dysfunctionality of my relationship with my only sister. 
It's been almost 5 and 10 years since each of them passed, and my sister and I are now hovering in our usual pattern of truce. 
As I type this I'm thinking of inviting her to "join" me in one of my video therapy sessions.
Of course I'd have to ask my therapist first, since there may be legal reasons this couldn't work. 
I was thinking of something informal, like having her on FaceTime on my phone while the video session with my therapist is on my laptop. 

I really wish that my sister had agreed to therapy with me.  She ordered me to go to therapy, so that I would get over her husband’s sexual harassment, and my not wanting to be around him.  I told her it didn’t work that way.  I also pointed out that she still needed therapy, too, and she looked really hurt and said, “I know” but went right back to dehumanizing me. 
 

I have all kinds of thoughts about him and his manipulation.  I’ll just say that I wanted a good BIL. I envy people whose families blend, and really like/love each other.  

Edited June 7 by Anela

[Yeah No]

7 hours ago, Absolom said:

Curiosity question and no reflection on Dimity, where do people consider the line where someone is one of the bereaved and you don't expect a card or anything and where people should express sympathy?  I remember when we had etiquette books for such questions and everyone sent flowers to funerals and memorial services even if they did it as a family group.  Things have really changed haven't they?

When my father died of Covid in early 2020 we were locked down and unable to have a funeral for him.  He knew a lot of people in his local area and I only had the contact info. for a few of them to let them know, but somehow in spite of that word spread.  Suddenly people I barely knew or didn't know were popping up all over my Facebook to send condolences.  And I got many cards in the mail too, even emails.  I guess friends of friends gave them my address.  I didn't mind at the time because it was the only way for people to express their sympathy.  I took down their names and if I could find an address for them I sent them a handwritten thank you note.  Otherwise I replied to them online.

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, BetyBee said:

I saved the sympathy cards and FB mentions will pop up again as memories. Some people are so kind and some are just oblivious to the pain others are feeling! 

8 hours ago, Absolom said:

When my next door neighbor's wife died, my neighbor on my other side and I put together a dinner, small flowers, and a card and took it over after asking his son what would be a good day to do it.  The neighbor watched for us to be outside and came up to us crying as no one else even family had done even that much.  We barely knew the woman as she was his third or fourth wife. It was just the neighborly thing to do we thought. He'd been our neighbor for over thirty years. You never know what will impact people.  When the neighbor himself was dying his son asked if we could replicate the meal for his father as he'd never stopped talking about it.  It was the last time we saw him alive.

When Dad passed, people from work sent emails or cards, which I really appreciated, since my own family couldn't/didn't really respond in helpful ways.
So, if you know of a coworker or neighbor who has passed, don't think you don't know them well enough to send a card. There's no qualification test to join the condolences club. 

[Jaded]

13 hours ago, Bastet said:

About five months before she died, Lisa Marie Presley wrote an essay for People on National Grief Awareness Day about what she'd been living with since her son's death two years prior.  It's really good, and I was reminded of it by the recent posts about people not reaching out to a friend suffering the death of a loved one, because she took that on:

I cried the first time I read that a couple months after she wrote it. I happened to stumble upon it while looking at other articles on People's site.

[ECM1231]

On 6/5/2024 at 6:43 PM, Absolom said:

I've been staying with my daughters recovering from MAJOR surgery.  I've done kids' laundry since they were born.  I came and stayed for months after each birth at daughter's request so yeah I'm up on what and how to wash and if anything is questionable I just don't wash it. 

She's been telling me not to do things, but as I think I'm about ready to go home, I need to move toward being more normal.  She was fine that I'd done laundry so it all worked out.  

Sounds like you're recovering very well.  What a good mom!

[ECM1231]

On 6/5/2024 at 7:32 PM, PRgal said:

Cantonese, there’s a term that translates to “making telephone congee,” which means being on the phone a really long time.

I miss my mother-in-law. My own mom died when I was 30 and my son had just turned 2. My MIL was in my life longer than my mom. She died of Covid in February 2021 at almost 91 years of age.

Anyway, we talked on the phone weekly. We'd have marathon conversations... I mean at least 2 hours long! IDK what we talked about so much, but what really was remarkable was that she had 1 daughter and 3 sons, and she never talked to any of them as long as she did talk with me. One time we were at some repast after a funeral service, and we were seated at the table with her first cousins.  One of her cousins mentioned something about her own DIL and how they weren't that close. My MIL piped in and told everyone about our marathon phone conversations. Her cousin was shocked and said, "Cathy calls you?" and my MIL responded that yes, we talk all of the time. It's funny b/c sometimes my husband will tell me a family story and I will tell him the ending and he'll ask how I knew. I tell him that those stories were just some of the things his mom and I talked about all those years. Gosh, she was a peach.

I have 2 daughters-in-law of my own. They don't call and one hardly ever even answers my text messages. Don't get me started. LOL The other one is a bit more loving, and she does answer texts in a timely manner. But this generation doesn't know from phone conversations. 

[ECM1231]

On 6/7/2024 at 3:14 PM, bluegirl147 said:

I'm old enough to remember people bringing casseroles or baked goods to someone's house when they lost a loved one. 

I'm wondering if this is a Midwest custom. I'm in my 60s and don't ever remember this being done in the metro NY area. I'm Roman Catholic, and we would attend a wake for the deceased in a funeral home. People would bring sympathy cards or Mass cards. Mass cards are cards where you make a donation, and a Mass is said for the deceased. Or if you were very close to the deceased, you'd send a floral arrangement. After 3 days and nights of being waked, there would be a funeral Mass in church the next morning, followed by the burial. Anyone close enough who came to the burial, would be invited back to a restaurant for a luncheon. Sometimes, the repast was in a home, as was my mom's repast. My lovely in-laws graciously put together cold cut platters in my dad's home, while we were at the funeral. 

Only as an adult have I heard about bringing food to the grieving family. I've done this with friends and of course in Jewish households they sit shiva and those who come to pay respects are the ones who bring the food.

When the USA was attacked on 9/11/2001, the phones were down for a long time. My in-laws were in their vacation home in PA and calls could not get through. The bridges were closed, too, and they couldn't get home.

I sat in my home, and nobody called. My husband's 1st born, age 22, perished in his 100th floor office of the North Tower. My husband's baby brother didn't call us for 2 weeks. 2 weeks! EFF that shit about not knowing what to say. It's not that hard. 

At the time I was working as a substitute teacher in the local middle school and had made friends with many of the staff. I was shocked to receive a phone call from one of the staff who was the 'hall patrol lady", for want of a better word. She wanted to know if she could stop by with food. When she got here, she apologized profusely that it was not hot food, but rather cold cuts from the deli. Cold cut platters. Enough to feed an army. I cried. And then I cried again when my husband's first cousin, whom he was not particularly close to, dropped by with homemade baked ziti. 

That was it. No phone calls asking if we needed anything. We had a memorial service 6 weeks later in one of the boroughs b/c my stepson lived with his mom and stepdad and half-siblings in Brooklyn. I will say that the church was packed. It was a rainy day, and the overflow was in the balcony, and in the vestibule. My husband's work buddies came out in droves, along with most of his relatives, and some of my cousins, my 2 aunts, and some mutual friends we had. Even my husband's union president attended. We didn't have a wake, as no body was recovered. 

But it did hurt. Even my baby sister, who is the only sibling I have, didn't really do much. Yes, she attended and sent a Mass card, but I just didn't feel like that was enough. I didn't feel much support. 

The year prior to that fateful day, our youngest was stricken with some weird blood disorder, that came out of nowhere. One day healthy as a horse, and the next day, fighting for his life. It was touch and go for a while and the summer of 2000 was a nightmare. While he did get some hospital visits from aunts and uncles, it was more like once or twice. And he was hospitalized about 6 weeks total. I had a 14 y.o. at home, who was on his own, as I was spending all my time in the hospital. It would have been nice for my BIL and SIL, who live just 10 blocks away, to maybe offer to invite my son for dinner. Or even bring a casserole for my husband and me to heat up. But nope. I got no support. 

I'm sorry for the depressing turn this post has taken, but some painful memories are coming up. 

It really is important to reach out and the grieved really do appreciate any kind words or deeds done. 

 

[Browncoat]

1 hour ago, ECM1231 said:

I'm wondering if this is a Midwest custom.

Not just a Midwest custom.  We do it in the South, too.  Not so much with casseroles, but other foods -- ham biscuits are a popular offering.

[fairffaxx]

There's even a book about funeral food -- Being Dead Is No Excuse: The Official Southern Ladies Guide To Hosting the Perfect Funeral -- written by 2 southern belles, Gayden Metcalfe & Charlotte Hays.  It's hilarious.

[shapeshifter]

Every time I think I may not talk to my 2 former-work, still-friends again (2,000 miles away) one of them calls. We just talked for an hour and 20 minutes.
Maybe I'll text them both some grandkid pix tomorrow.

[Absolom]

5 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

Sounds like you're recovering very well.  What a good mom!

Thanks.  We're in spring dance recital mode and I found dance pants this morning in front of the laundry room door so looked for more dance apparel and washed it.  There was already wash done waiting for the dryer and good for me I didn't put the pricey sports jersey in the dryer.  My daughter was doubly pleased.  They didn't get home until 10:30 last night so all help was appreciated.  We're just now home from the last performance. 

[Yeah No]

8 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

I miss my mother-in-law. My own mom died when I was 30 and my son had just turned 2. My MIL was in my life longer than my mom. She died of Covid in February 2021 at almost 91 years of age.

Anyway, we talked on the phone weekly. We'd have marathon conversations... I mean at least 2 hours long! IDK what we talked about so much, but what really was remarkable was that she had 1 daughter and 3 sons, and she never talked to any of them as long as she did talk with me. One time we were at some repast after a funeral service, and we were seated at the table with her first cousins.  One of her cousins mentioned something about her own DIL and how they weren't that close. My MIL piped in and told everyone about our marathon phone conversations. Her cousin was shocked and said, "Cathy calls you?" and my MIL responded that yes, we talk all of the time. It's funny b/c sometimes my husband will tell me a family story and I will tell him the ending and he'll ask how I knew. I tell him that those stories were just some of the things his mom and I talked about all those years. Gosh, she was a peach.

I have 2 daughters-in-law of my own. They don't call and one hardly ever even answers my text messages. Don't get me started. LOL The other one is a bit more loving, and she does answer texts in a timely manner. But this generation doesn't know from phone conversations. 

This reminds me of my husband and my mom.  He was closer to her than his own mother and it always amused me how they would talk on the phone all the time and I'd hear things from him about her or her about him that I didn't know.  And I was close to my mom too!  When she died in 2001 he cried like a baby.  I never saw him cry like that before or since, and that's including when his own mother died.

7 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

I'm wondering if this is a Midwest custom. I'm in my 60s and don't ever remember this being done in the metro NY area. I'm Roman Catholic, and we would attend a wake for the deceased in a funeral home. People would bring sympathy cards or Mass cards. Mass cards are cards where you make a donation, and a Mass is said for the deceased. Or if you were very close to the deceased, you'd send a floral arrangement. After 3 days and nights of being waked, there would be a funeral Mass in church the next morning, followed by the burial. Anyone close enough who came to the burial, would be invited back to a restaurant for a luncheon. Sometimes, the repast was in a home, as was my mom's repast. My lovely in-laws graciously put together cold cut platters in my dad's home, while we were at the funeral. 

Only as an adult have I heard about bringing food to the grieving family. I've done this with friends and of course in Jewish households they sit shiva and those who come to pay respects are the ones who bring the food.

When the USA was attacked on 9/11/2001, the phones were down for a long time. My in-laws were in their vacation home in PA and calls could not get through. The bridges were closed, too, and they couldn't get home.

I sat in my home, and nobody called. My husband's 1st born, age 22, perished in his 100th floor office of the North Tower. My husband's baby brother didn't call us for 2 weeks. 2 weeks! EFF that shit about not knowing what to say. It's not that hard. 

At the time I was working as a substitute teacher in the local middle school and had made friends with many of the staff. I was shocked to receive a phone call from one of the staff who was the 'hall patrol lady", for want of a better word. She wanted to know if she could stop by with food. When she got here, she apologized profusely that it was not hot food, but rather cold cuts from the deli. Cold cut platters. Enough to feed an army. I cried. And then I cried again when my husband's first cousin, whom he was not particularly close to, dropped by with homemade baked ziti. 

That was it. No phone calls asking if we needed anything. We had a memorial service 6 weeks later in one of the boroughs b/c my stepson lived with his mom and stepdad and half-siblings in Brooklyn. I will say that the church was packed. It was a rainy day, and the overflow was in the balcony, and in the vestibule. My husband's work buddies came out in droves, along with most of his relatives, and some of my cousins, my 2 aunts, and some mutual friends we had. Even my husband's union president attended. We didn't have a wake, as no body was recovered. 

But it did hurt. Even my baby sister, who is the only sibling I have, didn't really do much. Yes, she attended and sent a Mass card, but I just didn't feel like that was enough. I didn't feel much support. 

The year prior to that fateful day, our youngest was stricken with some weird blood disorder, that came out of nowhere. One day healthy as a horse, and the next day, fighting for his life. It was touch and go for a while and the summer of 2000 was a nightmare. While he did get some hospital visits from aunts and uncles, it was more like once or twice. And he was hospitalized about 6 weeks total. I had a 14 y.o. at home, who was on his own, as I was spending all my time in the hospital. It would have been nice for my BIL and SIL, who live just 10 blocks away, to maybe offer to invite my son for dinner. Or even bring a casserole for my husband and me to heat up. But nope. I got no support. 

I'm sorry for the depressing turn this post has taken, but some painful memories are coming up. 

It really is important to reach out and the grieved really do appreciate any kind words or deeds done. 

Don't worry about anything depressing, I appreciated your post and I too am going through a time of recalling painful memories. 

No, casseroles were definitely not a NY area custom.  Although baked ziti is technically a kind of casserole, LOL.  

My mother died on June 6th of 2001.  Your account of the funeral mass above reminds me of her memorial service in her local Episcopal church.  She was cremated so there was no wake but her memorial mass was attended by many people.  I was amazed at all the people that showed up.  My dad and I had a lunch catered by a local German deli that isn't there anymore.  Their food was so good....The owner knew us and gave us a break on the cost. 

Later after Sept. 11th I remember being happy that she didn't live to see that event.  She worked only a couple of blocks from the WTC for many years and it would have been traumatic for her.  It was traumatic for US because of that and because we were still grieving for her.  I remember going down to the Bronx only a few days after Sept. 11 to see my dad.  The city was stunned, in a state of shock.  The wind blew the stench from the fires toward us for a while.  You could see the plume of smoke in the sky.  Planes were circling overhead near Westchester airport, waiting to land. My father was grateful we came down to see him. I remember how his building had a roof antenna back then and he wasn't getting any TV for a while.

A high school friend was in the hospital after the first tower fell and he was injured - both legs shattered.  He was a Daily News photographer.  Many of his photos are famous now and he was featured on a few documentaries.  We found out from his mother what hospital he was in and called him.  I don't remember how or why but we got to talk to him and he was very grateful we called.

That was a rough time for me and my dad.  I had just moved all the way up to the Hartford area and didn't know anyone up here.  Then only months later he lost his lifelong best friend to cancer and then that friend's brother who was also a lifelong friend.  Then my husband lost his mother.  It was a horrible year for us and we were shell-shocked over it for quite a while.  I don't think my dad ever got over all that loss.  But he was a survivor and faced life with his usual cheerful spirit.  I got a lot closer to him after that.  

[Yeah No]

Is anyone having trouble finding dental floss lately?  It's gotten to the point in my area that you can't find any Johnson & Johnson dental floss anywhere except Amazon.  I had to buy store brand and even that seems to be dwindling.  The only name brands available anywhere are Oral B Glide.  It is next to impossible to find out any information on this online.  I read somewhere that some of the ingredients were either in short supply for several reasons and/or had been implicated as possible causes of cancer.  But that's only one article and it's behind a paywall so it was only through Google's AI that I saw that.

Anyway, it's just yet another head scratching moment of many these days.  

Edited June 10 by Yeah No
It's "Google", not "Goodle", LOL.

[Ohiopirate02]

14 hours ago, Browncoat said:

Not just a Midwest custom.  We do it in the South, too.  Not so much with casseroles, but other foods -- ham biscuits are a popular offering.

Fried chicken is the go-to in my part of the South. I lost track at how many people brought fried chicken to the house when my dad died there was so much fried chicken.  Every grocery store and BBQ joint here does fried chicken, and I believe we had some from all of them.  

[Dimity]

I've reached the point where I mostly just ignore the constant stream of ads and suggested groups and whatever that are clogging up my FB feed but today was just silly.  Several posts in succession from various restaurants - located in places like Chicago and New Orleans - with coupons I can scan and use next time I pop in.  Good grief.  They aren't even trying to tailor these things to someone's locale or interests anymore.

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

  Every grocery store and BBQ joint here does fried chicken, and I believe we had some from all of them.  

Almost worth relocating   to the South if I can get fried chicken everywhere I go!

[bluegirl147]

46 minutes ago, Dimity said:

  They aren't even trying to tailor these things to someone's locale or interests anymore.

I get so much junk in my FB feed and not just outright ads but posts that look like they are just from some random person that turns out to be an ad. I don't know what algorithm FB is using but they are missing the mark with me. And since I'm on the subject of online ads if I pay for an ad free streaming service there better not be ads.  I don't care if it's just one before my show.  I don't want to see any.  If I wanted to see ads I would watch TV.  And while I'm at it I really hate sites that stop playing the ad if you click outside the window while it's playing. So obnoxious. I don't want to hear your ad and I sure don't want to see it either.

Edited June 10 by bluegirl147

[Sharla]

10 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Is anyone having trouble finding dental floss lately?  It's gotten to the point in my area that you can't find any Johnson & Johnson dental floss anywhere except Amazon.  I had to buy store brand and even that seems to be dwindling.  The only name brands available anywhere are Oral B Glide

Dental floss does seem a very odd item to go scarce.  You'd think by now the supply chain would be back to normal especially on common items.

[annzeepark914]

@ECM1231 Your post...the part about the loss of your stepson on 9/11, made me teary-eyed. I am so sorry. Re: the custom of taking a casserole or a dessert to the home? It exists in NY. I'm from the lower mid-Hudson Valley and my mom and her friends and other women in the community did this after a death in the family (or when a mother was ill, friends brought meals). I think it's done all over the country. Several years ago, one of our neighbors lost some family members when a plane crashed into their house. I went to Wegmans, searched for a meal, couldn't find anything suitable & bought a big chocolate & whipped cream pie. She mentioned that pie several times afterward, how good it was, how much they enjoyed it, etc., (& I'd felt bad because I hadn't made a casserole). It doesn't take much to show sympathy. A pie, a simple card...even more so, an interest in listening to one's friend or relative afterward, when they just need to  talk about the person(s) no longer here. 

[RealHousewife]

Anyone have tips on how to become a back sleeper? I've tried buying special pillows, but I still end up sleeping on my stomach. The biggest advice I've seen is to put a pillow under your knees or surround yourself with pillows, but I toss and turn in my sleep. The pillows end up on the floor. 

I have read some people recommend pregnancy pillows, but thought I'd see if anyone here has advice before I spend money on yet another pillow that doesn't help.

[Anela]

1 hour ago, RealHousewife said:

Anyone have tips on how to become a back sleeper? I've tried buying special pillows, but I still end up sleeping on my stomach. The biggest advice I've seen is to put a pillow under your knees or surround yourself with pillows, but I toss and turn in my sleep. The pillows end up on the floor. 

I have read some people recommend pregnancy pillows, but thought I'd see if anyone here has advice before I spend money on yet another pillow that doesn't help.

I usually fall asleep on my left side, and end up on my back. I used to sleep on my stomach, when I was younger. I bunch my quilt up around me, or in front of me, like one of those pillows. 

[BetyBee]

 

Anyone have tips on how to become a back sleeper? I've tried buying special pillows, but I still end up sleeping on my stomach. The biggest advice I've seen is to put a pillow under your knees or surround yourself with pillows, but I toss and turn in my sleep. The pillows end up on the floor. 

I have read some people recommend pregnancy pillows, but thought I'd see if anyone here has advice before I spend money on yet another pillow that doesn't help.

I slept on my right side and sometimes on my stomach for years. After recovering from a frozen shoulder, I never sleep on my right side. It's either on my back or on my left side, if I need to change positions. I do use a body pillow and I have a Sleep Number bed. It took a while to get used to back sleeping, but I'm pretty comfortable with it now. Good luck, @RealHousewife!

In other news, I have had an African Violet that my daughter rooted from a cutting from her very healthy plant, for a couple of years now. Hers blooms all the time, but mine never did....until yesterday! I did finally give it some African Violet food and I use a grow light and it did the trick!

[Yeah No]

 

Anyone have tips on how to become a back sleeper? I've tried buying special pillows, but I still end up sleeping on my stomach. The biggest advice I've seen is to put a pillow under your knees or surround yourself with pillows, but I toss and turn in my sleep. The pillows end up on the floor. 

I have read some people recommend pregnancy pillows, but thought I'd see if anyone here has advice before I spend money on yet another pillow that doesn't help.

@RealHousewife, I had to become a back sleeper when I broke my arm several years ago.  Like you I used to toss and turn so I thought it wouldn't be possible but I found that using memory foam pillows that raise the head so you're almost sleeping in an upright position did the trick for me.  Somehow trying to twist or turn in that position is uncomfortable which discourages it.  I still sleep that way now because I find I get better sleep.  I also have to keep my legs propped up for circulation reasons.  My next bed, which is going to happen in the next year or so is definitely going to be an adjustable one.

BTW, there are "beauty pillows" out there that help keep the head in one position which can also help prevent tossing and turning.  They're a little weird, though.

[Yeah No]

 

Dental floss does seem a very odd item to go scarce.  You'd think by now the supply chain would be back to normal especially on common items.

@SharlaI know, it seems like ever since the pandemic it's become a convenient excuse to explain away shortages by blaming "supply chain issues".  Before the pandemic we didn't often have shortages like this, but now it seems like every other week I'm hearing about some kind of shortage or another.  Some were blamed on the various wars, others on climate problems that caused bad crops, etc.

In that one AI sentence I saw that came up in Google it said that there was some ingredient in the dental floss that was scarce because there were problems getting it from the country it's imported from, but I have no idea what that's all about since I can't see the article it comes from (it's behind a paywall).  And given that there is nothing else out there saying that I'm wondering how accurate or current that info. is.  The other reason I saw was that one of the ingredients is now said to cause cancer, but you'd think the media would be all over that if that were the case.

I am still finding it strange that there is nothing written about this issue online anywhere!  Even when you google on dental floss the shopping choices are slim and dwindling all the time, and the only Johnson & Johnson floss that comes up is on Amazon.  While supplies last, I guess!  I've stocked up on store brand for now just in case.

Edited June 11 by Yeah No

[shapeshifter]

 

the only Johnson & Johnson floss that comes up is on Amazon. 

Yeah, @Yeah No, that's how I've bought mine for years because it wasn't in my stores: amazon.com/gp/product/B00LITWSW0

Very wild guess: Maybe it gets stolen a lot so they're not stocking it??

Meanwhile, all my go-to products with few ingredients now have over 20 ingredients! What's up with that?

[Absolom]

I've ordered dental floss from Amazon for about four years.  I haven't seen the brand and type my dentist wants me to use in a store ever.  I thought I was looking for odd floss and it hadn't occurred to me it was supply issue until now.

[Notabug]

 

When Dad passed, people from work sent emails or cards, which I really appreciated, since my own family couldn't/didn't really respond in helpful ways.
So, if you know of a coworker or neighbor who has passed, don't think you don't know them well enough to send a card. There's no qualification test to join the condolences club. 

Absolutely.  If you knew the deceased well enough to note their death, consider reaching out to the family, even if you don't know any of them.  Show up at the wake, introduce yourself including how you know their loved one.  Think of an anecdote or two to share with them.  'Your mother grew the most beautiful roses in her garden.'  'Your father went out of his way to help the neighbors shovel out after that big blizzard a few years ago.'

Those who are grieving want to remember the good things about their loved one, even good things they didn't know about before the death.  They want to know that their loved one was special, that they did things that mattered for others and that there are lots of people who remember them fondly.

I went to the wake for my 7th grade teacher.  She wasn't married when I knew her, but ultimately married and had a couple of kids.  She died about 35 years later.  I saw her obit in the paper and decided to go to the calling hours which were close to where I live.  I introduced myself to her husband and daughters, told them what a terrific teacher she was and how she had said some things to encourage me that stuck with me and helped lead me to my career (I'm an MD).  They were obviously moved and it was well worth it.  Those who are grieving want to know this stuff, they want to confirm that their loved one was every bit as special as they thought.

One of my nephews died at age 5.  At the wake, the grocery store clerk who often saw him at the check out when he came with his mother to get groceries, stopped to offer her condolences.  Believe me, it meant a huge amount to my sister.  

If in doubt, do it.

[ECM1231]

Beautiful post, @Notabug. And I'm sorry about the loss of your nephew at such a young age. 

[Notabug]

2 minutes ago, ECM1231 said:

Beautiful post, @Notabug. And I'm sorry about the loss of your nephew at such a young age. 

Thanks, it was a long, long time ago, 33 years; although, sometimes, it feels like it happened yesterday.

[oliviabenson]

Falling for the new items in Trader Joe’s on instagram and going to the store like a sheep…

Edited June 11 by oliviabenson

[ECM1231]

1 hour ago, oliviabenson said:

Falling for the new items in Trader Joe’s on instagram and going to the store like a sheep…

Is it weird that there's a Trader Joe's at the far end of town and I never, ever go? Like maybe twice a year. Their parking lot is always full. The staff is lovely and very attentive, but I just find them very limited as far as being a grocery store and I don't feel like popping in and spending money on specialty items that I just don't need. Their eggs and dairy are pretty cheap, but I don't feel like making a special trip just for that. They have or used to have a brand of vegetarian sausage links that I'd buy for my son that were very good and very inexpensive, but he's married now and on his own. Their meat isn't cheap, nor is their produce. They do have nice greeting cards and fresh flowers. 

[Bastet]

15 minutes ago, ECM1231 said:

but I just find them very limited as far as being a grocery store

Same here; what they have is good, but they have a lot of packaged items and not nearly a wide enough selection of fresh ingredients for how I shop and cook. 

[Ancaster]

53 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Same here; what they have is good, but they have a lot of packaged items and not nearly a wide enough selection of fresh ingredients for how I shop and cook. 

Same here, plus they have little if any local produce.  I live near one, so I do go in when my snack selection is low!

[EtheltoTillie]

Yes, I don't get the cult of Trader Joe's.  People insist it's cheaper than other stores, but here in NYC it's a shlep.  Plus it has limited stock, so I'd have to go to other stores to get things they don't have. 

[shapeshifter]

I miss Trader Joe's, but it's too far and out-of-the-way since I moved here 2½ years ago. They had 100% whole grain sourdough bread; Wegmans is only about ½ whole grain. They had low-salt chicken noodle soup, which I used to keep on hand in case I was sick. Now I'm craving some walnuts or hazelnuts from there. And their unsweetened soymilk was less expensive.  

[oliviabenson]

I had to try that lol. Someone high came up with that!