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halgia

By halgia
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Mondrianyone
Mondrianyone

Well, if this story does nothing else, it proves that you don't have to be a femme fatale to be a fatal woman. How on earth did this stumpy little fireplug get multiple men wrapped around her finger?

12catcrazy
12catcrazy

Anybody watch last night's Dateline?  How very sad a story - the poor victim had been dating his new girlfriend for such a short period of time and got murdered because she had an obsessed ex.   

UsernameFatigue
UsernameFatigue

I thought The Clearing was a fascinating case. I don't know if her husband killed Emily, but I do know I could not have convicted him had I been on that jury. And that his attorney was one of the most

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saber5055

saber5055

(edited)

LOL. I was my mom's favorite too, which irked my sisters no end. My brother didn't care.

I don't have any idea of the inventory of Bill's equipment, but one combine, USED, is around $500,000. That's one-half million and doesn't include the corn head. A tractor similar to Shirley's John Deere (I couldn't tell model, just that it was pretty new) would cost $250,000 USED. A grain truck, 10 years old, would run around $75,000 and since Bill was a custom grain hauler, he would have more than one. He also would have more than one tractor, for field work and around-the-farm work, different sizes, models, years. But John Deere was shown, and they are expensive. (Moreso than say CaseIH or Ford.) Then there are grain wagons and no end of other equipment needed to run a working grain farm to say nothing of buildings and storage bins.

The homestead would be sold, I am assuming, since Jason had his own house. That could be $250,000 easy.

Which makes me wonder where Bill is living now, if he went home and back to farming. What happened to Jason's property now that he is in jail? Was it sold to pay his debts/lawyers?

Land price right now in Marion County, Iowa, is around $6,500/acre. I don't know how much Bill was farming or owned. Lots of farmers rent the land they farm, or lease it to other farmers.

Farmers traditionally have a lot of debt. They borrow from the bank in spring to buy seed, fertilizer, new equipment and so forth, counting on the money they get when their crops are harvested to pay back the loan and put something aside in their own bank account, if they have a lucky year. Several bad years in a row can leave farmers destitute, and the bank forecloses and takes the farm. It's a tough life.

I can see Jason going broke in a few years, even if he did inherit the land. That guy was destined to fail. The other two kids would have pocketed the money from above-ground sales and been fine. Jason ... not so much.

Edited by saber5055
  • Love 5
JudyObscure

JudyObscure

We live in town but in Ohio farm country and our 97 year-old neighbors sold their farm for 8 million a few years ago.  Another thing about the will that they didn't mention is that the  parents might have had a few million in the bank to add to the money made from selling the things Saber listed, the money in the bank would be "above ground," I'm guessing. 

What a sad and terrible thing.  If Jason was failing at farming he could get a regular job.  If he no longer wanted to be married he could get a divorce.  Jason's imagination probably didn't take him much further than a vacation in Hawaii with that thin-lipped girlfriend and yet he killed his mother to do it.  He reminded me of the "Before Dawn," guy who shot his pregnant wife while she showered so he could be with some co-worker  who had sent him a topless photo of herself.    Unbelievable.

As for Bill being "controlling" because he didn't like the way she mowed the yard, my husband does diagonals while I say long straight lines on our narrow lot require fewer turns.  Hope one of us doesn't turn up dead.

  • Love 7
JudyObscure

JudyObscure

I agree, Cooks, I think DIL probably made it up.  I'm just saying that, even if it's true, how to mow the lawn is probably like how to squeeze the toothpaste, something lots of couples disagree over, it doesn't mean anyone is controlling.  Bill had me on his side from the beginning, when they showed the high-school pictures and Bill said his wife was the prettiest thing in the whole world.

  • Love 11
Mrs. Hanson

Mrs. Hanson

2 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

Judy, I’m not buying the idiot daughter-in-law’s story about Bill being controlling. He loved her so much, and she loved driving her custom tractor. I think that was all coaching from Jason’s attorney, in their attempt to throw suspicion at Bill. A lame ploy.

I don't buy DIL's story either.  By the way if my hubby complained how I mowed the lawn I would politely offer that he can do it himself! LOL!!  (He wouldn't say anything though!)

  • Love 6
Mrs. Hanson

Mrs. Hanson

19 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

We live in town but in Ohio farm country and our 97 year-old neighbors sold their farm for 8 million a few years ago.  Another thing about the will that they didn't mention is that the  parents might have had a few million in the bank to add to the money made from selling the things Saber listed, the money in the bank would be "above ground," I'm guessing. 

What a sad and terrible thing.  If Jason was failing at farming he could get a regular job.  If he no longer wanted to be married he could get a divorce.  Jason's imagination probably didn't take him much further than a vacation in Hawaii with that thin-lipped girlfriend and yet he killed his mother to do it.  He reminded me of the "Before Dawn," guy who shot his pregnant wife while she showered so he could be with some co-worker  who had sent him a topless photo of herself.    Unbelievable.

As for Bill being "controlling" because he didn't like the way she mowed the yard, my husband does diagonals while I say long straight lines on our narrow lot require fewer turns.  Hope one of us doesn't turn up dead.

That just sounds like typical husband/wife bickering:  no harm, no foul.  My hubby and I?  "How to Load a Dishwasher."  Good Lord we have gone around the horn and back again over that damn thing.  Him:  It is not full enough!  Me:  It is squeezed to the brim!!  Him:  Look!  There is an inch of space!  Me:  No, I can't wait for three days to run it, I want to run it now.  "We can wait until dinner and put more dishes in"  Well......you guys get the idea!!  It is like he could come home with two prostitutes and as long as I don't have to hear about the dishwasher.....I'm cool.

  • Love 19
ari333

ari333

(edited)

Just watched Last Dance again. I had seen it before, but had forgotten the details. Chris, the husband (estranged) seemed guilty from the start. With his smirking and gum smacking I wanted to throw things. 

She looked amazing. How did she lose so much weight so fast and how did her skin look so good? I know she was doing the dancing exercise, but I wonder what she was eating.

So sad.

Edited by ari333
  • Love 2
sinycalone

sinycalone

"Secrets of the Emerald Coast"  - tonight's episode.

How big was that inner circle at the church...dozens?  How much of a secret can it be when that many people are aware of it?  And the paster was also a shill on a home shopping show.  SMH.

Marie (Maria?)  - sad end to her confused life, but the true victims:  both daughters.

  • Love 9
Annber03

Annber03

Oh, man, the awkward pause and nervous laughter that followed the pastor's rant about wanting to "choke the life out of" people who upset him in that video. Seriously, WTF, dude. 

And "Who would kill somebody and bury their body in the backyard?" is proof I watch too many true crime shows, 'cause that didn't surprise me one bit. 

  • Love 13
sinycalone

sinycalone

Big red flag when the pastor and his wife said they just happened to go to the airport to search for her car...and there it was.  Right.

I liked the two detectives...pursued the case even though there were so many detours and leads that went nowhere.  Not sure I believe the wife knew almost nothing about the murder....but hard to prove otherwise.

  • Love 11
Lizzing

Lizzing

In case anyone else had a "where have I heard this case before?" feelings like I did, it was the subject of a Cold Justice episode from 2015. 

I do not buy for a hot second that the wife didn't know about the murder.  First, even her inner circle congregants thought she was more than capable of murder. Second, Marie was buried five feet down.  One scrawny preacher man cannot dig a hole that big, that deep all that quickly and get it covered again without help.  I'm sure if he had a backhoe in his yard that day, the cops would have found out about it very early on.  Tanya had to have known, and I am not taking her defense counsel's word that she was shocked.

So who has custody of Grace? I was hoping the sister did, but she only mentioned her daughter getting together with the older daughter, Paris, and mentioned she "hoped" to tell Grace about her mother.

  • Love 10
AZChristian

AZChristian

1 hour ago, thejuicer said:

Did anyone catch why the pastor and his wife "took in" Marie? She's a grown adult, it's not like she was some foster child without any means of survival.

Maybe pastor and wife BOTH wanted to explore a sisterwife option.  That was what I thought the show was hinting at.  They had one child and wanted more, but Tanya had multiple miscarriages.  Tanya said she was there when Grace was conceived "the old-fashioned way."  Maybe there were nightly threesomes.

  • Love 8
sinycalone

sinycalone

9 hours ago, Lizzing said:

In case anyone else had a "where have I heard this case before?" feelings like I did, it was the subject of a Cold Justice episode from 2015. 

I do not buy for a hot second that the wife didn't know about the murder.  First, even her inner circle congregants thought she was more than capable of murder. Second, Marie was buried five feet down.  One scrawny preacher man cannot dig a hole that big, that deep all that quickly and get it covered again without help.  I'm sure if he had a backhoe in his yard that day, the cops would have found out about it very early on.  Tanya had to have known, and I am not taking her defense counsel's word that she was shocked.

So who has custody of Grace? I was hoping the sister did, but she only mentioned her daughter getting together with the older daughter, Paris, and mentioned she "hoped" to tell Grace about her mother.

Had the same reaction....no way that pastor dug a hole that deep, buried Marie, filled in the hole by himself...without the wife knowing/hel,ping.

I agree, I think the detectives (and Dateline) thought it was about a threesome...not just trying to provide shelter for Marie, then acting as a turkey-baster surrogate.  (And good point, they could have helped Marie without having her move into their home, etc.)

The fact that her ex-husband confronted her (without a real baby bump)...and she replied that she was acting as a surrogate.....leads me to believe she was shocked that he knew asap that she was pregnant.  She thought she had months to manufacture a better story.

  • Love 2
JudyObscure

JudyObscure

3 hours ago, AZChristian said:

Maybe there were nightly threesomes.

Because they were a throuple, you know. Of course Marie didn't deserve to die, but I thought all three were lying fakers who faked.  All those pictures of Marie gazing upward in rapture as she sings in church -- while sleeping with the pastor -- made me a little queasy.  Beware of preachers who wear jeans and act like that makes them way more cool than the other ones.  I've known a few. 

I know Dateline likes to glorify the victims, but they really outdid themselves with Marie, who was, "beautiful, magnetic, a beautiful woman with a gravitational pull, a beautiful woman with a heart of gold, a beautiful woman no man could resist, and  such a beautiful,  wonderful mother."

  • Love 11
ari333

ari333

So they told Marie that she was adopted? Because how can someone be adopted to their own bio father? That seems more like a custody situation

Marie was staying with the pastor and wife until she "got on her feet?" I thought she *was* on her feet. Hhmm

Did she write that weird text? And leaving without calling her other daughter.... odd fishy. 

Did they say who sexually abused /molested her and when?

AZChristian

AZChristian

10 minutes ago, ari333 said:

So they told Marie that she was adopted? Because how can someone be adopted to their own bio father? That seems more like a custody situation.

I assumed from what they said that she was told she was adopted because she was born out of wedlock and her mother couldn't take care of her.  I'm not sure how it was handled legally . . . if bio dad wasn't on a birth certificate, he and his wife may have adopted her as a private adoption, and then told her the truth when she was a little older.

  • Love 5
thejuicer

thejuicer

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

I know Dateline likes to glorify the victims, but they really outdid themselves with Marie, who was, "beautiful, magnetic, a beautiful woman with a gravitational pull, a beautiful woman with a heart of gold, a beautiful woman no man could resist, and  such a beautiful,  wonderful mother."

This. She made very poor decisions and put her two daughters in direct harm's way.

  • Love 5
Ohmo

Ohmo

(edited)
16 hours ago, Jpxfactor said:

Why didn’t Marie’s family get custody of the baby Grace?  That is just crazy!

That was my thought as well.  I wondered why they didn't sue for custody.  I know James is the father, but he also killed Marie.  How does the wife of the man that killed the victim get the child?  Tanya got exactly what she wanted, and I do think she knows more than she's telling.  I'm not saying that she participated, but I can't buy that she's totally clueless if the body was buried in the backyard.  Like she wasn't curious about the appearance of suddenly disturbed ground?  She never looked out a window at the backyard?

I know this is stereotypical, but the moment I heard "pastor" and "strip mall church," I knew James was the father.  Fly-by-night churches like that always seem to have some sort of secret intertwined with religion.  I didn't see the polygamy coming, though.

Edited by Ohmo
  • Love 9
Ohmo

Ohmo

(edited)
8 hours ago, thejuicer said:

Did anyone catch why the pastor and his wife "took in" Marie? She's a grown adult, it's not like she was some foster child without any means of survival.

The show didn't say, but remember that Marie had bipolar disorder.  I can buy that the times that she was taken in by families during her adulthood were probably times when Marie was particularly struggling with her illness...not taking her meds, her meds were in need of adjustment, etc.  She was likely in a vulnerable state.

Edited by Ohmo
  • Love 5
Ohmo

Ohmo

3 hours ago, AZChristian said:

I assumed from what they said that she was told she was adopted because she was born out of wedlock and her mother couldn't take care of her.  I'm not sure how it was handled legally . . . if bio dad wasn't on a birth certificate, he and his wife may have adopted her as a private adoption, and then told her the truth when she was a little older.

I assumed that it was a situation like what happened during World War II, Korea, or Vietnam, only without the war.  American man over in the Philippines meets Filipino woman, and the American man brings the child to the U.S. where his wife quietly adopts the child.

  • Love 4
Ohmo

Ohmo

(edited)
3 hours ago, thejuicer said:

his. She made very poor decisions and put her two daughters in direct harm's way.

I have to disagree somewhat.  This wasn't a choice....well not a choice of her own making.  Engaging in sexually promiscuous behavior or risky sexual behavior is a symptom of bipolar disorder.

A couple of years ago I read an article that the life span of a person with mental illness is typically about 12 years shorter than a person who does not have mental illness.  The  disease itself does not kill the person but it causes the person to be more willing and prone to engage in behavior or put themselves in situations that could lead to harm or death.

That's what I believe happened here.  Marie's bipolar disorder was an indirect cause of her death.  Her choices were not hers.  She was either not being treated or not receiving the proper treatment, and that led her into the situation that ultimately led to her death.

Edited by Ohmo
  • Love 12
EtheltoTillie

EtheltoTillie

So many contradictory feelings. So sad. It looks like the bio family accepted a settlement allowing frequent visitation.  

42 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

I have to disagree somewhat.  This wasn't a choice....well not a choice of her own making.  Engaging in sexually promiscuous behavior or risky sexual behavior is a symptom of bipolar disorder.

A couple of years ago I read an article that the life span of a person with mental illness is typically about 12 years shorter than a person who does not have mental illness.  The  disease itself does not kill the person but it causes the person to be more willing and prone to engage in behavior or put themselves in situations that could lead to harm or death.

That's what I believe happened here.  Marie's bipolar disorder was an indirect cause of her death.  Her choices were not hers.  She was either not being treated or not receiving the proper treatment, and that led her into the situation that ultimately led to her death.

So true. Ironically, I minutes ago finished reading a New York Times story about a homeless mentally ill woman with similar problems. Google Nakesha Williams and read it. No spoilers here. 

  • Love 2
JudyObscure

JudyObscure

Nakesha Williams had schizophrenia, which is a whole lot worse, more continuous and constant, than bipolar.  Not saying both aren't terrible,  but Nakesha, unlike Marie, did not have periods of sustained clear thinking where she could be held accountable for her actions.  For example, when Marie visited her ex-husband and told him she was carrying a baby as a surrogate, she was telling the truth and knew what she was getting herself and her child into.  That's not to say that James and Tonya didn't take advantage of a mentally ill person -- they did.

For me, the saddest part of Nakesha's story was this, "One day, he recalled, she began screaming uncontrollably, and he asked her, “What’s going on, Ms. Williams?”

“‘This is not me,’” she said. “‘This is other people in me.’” 

I once had someone with schizophrenia whisper to me that he was going to kill himself because there was a man living inside him. It was heart breaking. Her story was also sad because so many people tried to help her.  We're just going to have to face the fact that severe mental illness is like heart disease or cancer.  We can't cure it with kindness.  The part that is sick is the brain and it can't understand the need for voluntary commitment.  We have to bring back psychiatric hospitals and involuntary commitment, until patients are well enough to understand the importance of taking their medication and living carefully for the sake of their health.  Treatment Advocacy

  • Love 4
Ohmo

Ohmo

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Not saying both aren't terrible,  but Nakesha, unlike Marie, did not have periods of sustained clear thinking where she could be held accountable for her actions.  For example, when Marie visited her ex-husband and told him she was carrying a baby as a surrogate, she was telling the truth and knew what she was getting herself and her child into.

I'd dispute that she was aware of what she was getting herself into.  She was willing to engage in unconventional sex with James even though he was married to Tonya.  That's atypical sexual behavior that a person with bipolar disorder is much more likely to be attracted to because impulsive behavior is also much more likely.  Telling the truth really has nothing to do with it.  It was true that she was a surrogate, but that doesn't mean that Marie understood what that meant, knew how she had gotten herself in that situation, or understood how Tanya and James manipulated her into that situation.

In terms of clear thinking, that's all relative when it comes to bipolar disorder.  When a person with bipolar disorder is properly medicated, the thinking is more clear than when they're not on meds, but even with the meds, their thinking is not "clear" in the sense that a person without mental illness has clear thinking.  It's not the same.  A person with biopolar disorder has less impaired thinking when they're medicated, but they still have impaired thinking.

I will agree with you that I would like to see psychiatric hospitals reopen on a larger scale.  They can't have the abuses of many years ago, but they need to be available as a viable option for more than 72 hours.  There also needs to be a way to safeguard a person's rights but also be able to commit him/her to treatment if things get to a crisis point.

  • Love 7
ChristmasJones

ChristmasJones

(edited)

On the subject of bipolar, I had a very interesting experience many years ago that gave me personal insight into how it can affect a person's behavior.

I was taking an antidepressant medication called Remeron for chronic headaches.  I had been on it for a couple of years and it worked great. Then I developed another health issue, and started on another medication. A month or so after starting the second medication, I started thinking it would be great to add some more clothes to my wardrobe. So I went to the mall and bought a few outfits. Then a week or two later, I went back and bought a few more items.

At this time, I was living in an apartment building and my next door neighbor was an older man, probably somewhere around 50 years old. I had been living next to him for over a year. I was in my early 30's. We had never done more than said hi to each other in passing. He was not someone I considered physically attractive at all, and this was based on his physical appearance as well as the age difference between us.

As the weeks went on, I started thinking that some of my ideas about a book I wanted to write seemed really solid. They seemed very insightful and I thought to myself why have I been slacking on this? Why haven't I actually started working on this, when its such a great idea? I started feeling really motivated to start working on it.

The weeks of my increased shopping trips passed by, and I was in a great mood. I can't recall how it started, but I came to find that I was feeling very friendly and open when I crossed paths with my neighbor. I was smiling and laughing and he was very receptive to this change in my behavior. He started flirting with me and I was enjoying it! I began to feel quite attracted to him, as if I had a new crush. Within a week or two of this, he asked me out and took me to dinner at a great restaurant. Afterwards, we had a night cap in his apartment. He didn't make a physical move on me, so the night ended there.

On some level, though, I was beginning to realize that I was acting out of character. The shopping trips were out of my budget, and I am the type that always stays on a strict budget. And the guy next door - I didn't know him so it wasn't like he was this average looking guy who I became attracted to after getting to know him. Something inside me had changed and I suddenly became super friendly and flirtatious with a guy two decades older than me who until that time I had never given a second look to. The increasing feeling of motivation to work on my amazing creative ideas, with a sense of purpose - why now?  I realized that I was showing signs of hypomania (a more subtle form of mania that is part of bipolar disorder).

I stopped taking the second medication, and within a couple of weeks, it all went away. I then felt nothing when I saw my neighbor, just as I had the entire year before. And I didn't need new clothes and purses. And I didn't feel this urge to share my ideas with the world anymore.

We don't have any history of bipolar illness in my family that I am aware of.  I'm not adopted and I know my relatives on both sides going back a few generations. So the experience I had with hypomania was totally unexpected. I'm fortunate that I knew what hypomania is and was able to catch it early. But the whole experience, which probably lasted at most a couple of months, gave me a real sense of how bipolar illness can affect someone. 

My actions and behaviors during that time were completely out of character for me. I hadn't lost contact with reality, but I was acting in ways that were not me. And if I hadn't caught onto it as soon as I did, I could have ended up spending a lot of money and probably would have ended up having sex with my neighbor. And who knows what else. I know that during that phase, I felt super happy, confident, and had tons of energy. And it all felt like "me" - just a better form of me. I was no longer the introverted, cautious, frugal person that I normally am. The world seemed brighter and I felt relaxed and happy and flirtatious.

Thankfully such a thing has never happened again. In some ways if I could have dialed that feeling down just a few notches, I would have liked to live life feeling like I did. The experience gave me a lot of insight into why people with bipolar may not always want to take the medications that control mania- because it does feel really really awesome. But the problem is that internal feeling of awesomeness can quickly lead to behaviors that can derail a persons' life.

Anyway, it would have been interesting to hear more about Marie's struggles in that arena.

Edited by ChristmasJones
  • Love 18
JudyObscure

JudyObscure

57 minutes ago, ChristmasJones said:

On the subject of bipolar, I had a very interesting experience many years ago that gave me personal insight into how it can affect a person's behavior.

I was taking an antidepressant medication called Remeron for chronic headaches.  I had been on it for a couple of years and it worked great. Then I developed another health issue, and started on another medication. A month or so after starting the second medication, I started thinking it would be great to add some more clothes to my wardrobe. So I went to the mall and bought a few outfits. Then a week or two later, I went back and bought a few more items.

At this time, I was living in an apartment building and my next door neighbor was an older man, probably somewhere around 50 years old. I had been living next to him for over a year. I was in my early 30's. We had never done more than said hi to each other in passing. He was not someone I considered physically attractive at all, and this was based on his physical appearance as well as the age difference between us.

As the weeks went on, I started thinking that some of my ideas about a book I wanted to write seemed really solid. They seemed very insightful and I thought to myself why have I been slacking on this? Why haven't I actually started working on this, when its such a great idea? I started feeling really motivated to start working on it.

The weeks of my increased shopping trips passed by, and I was in a great mood. I can't recall how it started, but I came to find that I was feeling very friendly and open when I crossed paths with my neighbor. I was smiling and laughing and he was very receptive to this change in my behavior. He started flirting with me and I was enjoying it! I began to feel quite attracted to him, as if I had a new crush. Within a week or two of this, he asked me out and took me to dinner at a great restaurant. Afterwards, we had a night cap in his apartment. He didn't make a physical move on me, so the night ended there.

On some level, though, I was beginning to realize that I was acting out of character. The shopping trips were out of my budget, and I am the type that always stays on a strict budget. And the guy next door - I didn't know him so it wasn't like he was this average looking guy who I became attracted to after getting to know him. Something inside me had changed and I suddenly became super friendly and flirtatious with a guy two decades older than me who until that time I had never given a second look to. The increasing feeling of motivation to work on my amazing creative ideas, with a sense of purpose - why now?  I realized that I was showing signs of hypomania (a more subtle form of mania that is part of bipolar disorder).

I stopped taking the second medication, and within a couple of weeks, it all went away. I then felt nothing when I saw my neighbor, just as I had the entire year before. And I didn't need new clothes and purses. And I didn't feel this urge to share my ideas with the world anymore.

We don't have any history of bipolar illness in my family that I am aware of.  I'm not adopted and I know my relatives on both sides going back a few generations. So the experience I had with hypomania was totally unexpected. I'm fortunate that I knew what hypomania is and was able to catch it early. But the whole experience, which probably lasted at most a couple of months, gave me a real sense of how bipolar illness can affect someone. 

My actions and behaviors during that time were completely out of character for me. I hadn't lost contact with reality, but I was acting in ways that were not me. And if I hadn't caught onto it as soon as I did, I could have ended up spending a lot of money and probably would have ended up having sex with my neighbor. And who knows what else. I know that during that phase, I felt super happy, confident, and had tons of energy. And it all felt like "me" - just a better form of me. I was no longer the introverted, cautious, frugal person that I normally am. The world seemed brighter and I felt relaxed and happy and flirtatious.

Thankfully such a thing has never happened again. In some ways if I could have dialed that feeling down just a few notches, I would have liked to live life feeling like I did. The experience gave me a lot of insight into why people with bipolar may not always want to take the medications that control mania- because it does feel really really awesome. But the problem is that internal feeling of awesomeness can quickly lead to behaviors that can derail a persons' life.

Anyway, it would have been interesting to hear more about Marie's struggles in that arena.

Super interesting story.  It's rare when someone can experience a mental illness and then come out the other side and be able to articulate the experience so well.

  • Love 8
Calamity Jane

Calamity Jane

(edited)
15 hours ago, Ohmo said:

I'd dispute that she was aware of what she was getting herself into.  She was willing to engage in unconventional sex with James even though he was married to Tonya.  That's atypical sexual behavior that a person with bipolar disorder is much more likely to be attracted to because impulsive behavior is also much more likely.  Telling the truth really has nothing to do with it.  It was true that she was a surrogate, but that doesn't mean that Marie understood what that meant, knew how she had gotten herself in that situation, or understood how Tanya and James manipulated her into that situation.

In terms of clear thinking, that's all relative when it comes to bipolar disorder.  When a person with bipolar disorder is properly medicated, the thinking is more clear than when they're not on meds, but even with the meds, their thinking is not "clear" in the sense that a person without mental illness has clear thinking.  It's not the same.  A person with biopolar disorder has less impaired thinking when they're medicated, but they still have impaired thinking.

I will agree with you that I would like to see psychiatric hospitals reopen on a larger scale.  They can't have the abuses of many years ago, but they need to be available as a viable option for more than 72 hours.  There also needs to be a way to safeguard a person's rights but also be able to commit him/her to treatment if things get to a crisis point.

I have said this a lot in various forums - my daughter is a mental health clinician and worked in a county jail for 4 years (now working with juvenile delinquents).  She saw the same people cycle through over and over and over because they're mentally ill, can't access adequate services outside jail or just fall apart too much to do so, behave inappropriately, and get arrested again and again and again, get a little treatment, are put back on the street, and the cycle begins anew.  Jails and prisons are the #1 provider of mental health services these days, and it's unbearably sad to think that we have criminalized mental illness instead of looking for ways to improve on the old system and avoid its abuses.  Families of mentally ill people have so little help available, even savvy professionals, and it gets overwhelming.  The system isn't just broken, it's smashed, and it needs to be reinvented.  

Edited by Calamity Jane
  • Love 13
Annber03

Annber03

It was weird, wasn't it :p? But it was a good episode. I certainly remember hearing about this in the news, but actually seeing the footage of that collapse was horrifying. The fact there wasn't better regulation in place, and no proper inspection of the actual structure, is utterly fucked up. Especially given storms of that sort are quite common in Indiana that time of year, so you'd think the people in charge would've figured out how to better prepare for such possibilities. 

JudyObscure

JudyObscure

Last night was a repeat of Target the one where Ira Bernstein, podiatrist,  and girlfriend Kelly tried to hire a car salesman to murder his wife.

Such stupid, evil people, caught on tape in living color, and yet he gets a minimum of only  five years and Kelly gets four.  What the heck?  We see iffy circumstantial cases where the guy gets life and this was clear cut murder for hire. 

I just listened to the wife's victim statement and the nasty girlfriend had run over and killed someone with her car in the past -- yet it was her idea to have the hitman run over the wife and, "say it was an accident."  This young woman is a heartless sociopath and she'll be out in a couple of years!  I hated that Dateline called her weasel face beautiful and she got to get out of jail for the show and dress up in her dyed black hair, slinky black dress and thigh high boots.  She maintains it was all worth it because it made her realize how much she loved Ira . Puke.  I was too angry to sleep after that.

  • Love 4
walnutqueen

walnutqueen

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Last night was a repeat of Target the one where Ira Bernstein, podiatrist,  and girlfriend Kelly tried to hire a car salesman to murder his wife.

Such stupid, evil people, caught on tape in living color, and yet he gets a minimum of only  five years and Kelly gets four.  What the heck?  We see iffy circumstantial cases where the guy gets life and this was clear cut murder for hire. 

I just listened to the wife's victim statement and the nasty girlfriend had run over and killed someone with her car in the past -- yet it was her idea to have the hitman run over the wife and, "say it was an accident."  This young woman is a heartless sociopath and she'll be out in a couple of years!  I hated that Dateline called her weasel face beautiful and she got to get out of jail for the show and dress up in her dyed black hair, slinky black dress and thigh high boots.  She maintains it was all worth it because it made her realize how much she loved Ira . Puke.  I was too angry to sleep after that.

I'm glad I missed that rerun, because even just reading about those two disgusting people again makes my blood boil!

  • Love 4

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