All Episodes Discussion

[Madding crowd]

I agree with you; there was not enough evidence to charge him. I just think her cause of death being undetermined was kind of problematic . I can't see her drowning herself and there was no mention she was suicidial.My doctor told me it is unlikely for a person to have seizures from stopping pain meds (I asked because I have been on and off them for several years). Like anything else, we probably won't know the real story. The husband doesn't seem to concerned about a cause of death though.

[ari333]

6 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I agree with you; there was not enough evidence to charge him. I just think her cause of death being undetermined was kind of problematic . I can't see her drowning herself and there was no mention she was suicidial.My doctor told me it is unlikely for a person to have seizures from stopping pain meds (I asked because I have been on and off them for several years). Like anything else, we probably won't know the real story. The husband doesn't seem to concerned about a cause of death though.

But could the seizure (if there were one)  have been from alcohol withdrawal ? That one video after cocktails was sad. And it was sad that he taped her in that condition, but he claimed to have a reason.  I was torn.

The neck marks remain iffy for me

[Madding crowd]

You can have seizures if you are a hard core alcoholic, but I don't know if she was. We saw one video where she was obviously drunk, but if she was an alcoholic, her liver tests would have come back with damage mentioned. Outside of the husband, we have no real confirmation of her being an alcoholic, getting drugs illegally etc. I do think if you are such a hard core drinker than you would have seizures, your liver would show up as seriously damaged. 

[ari333]

1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

You can have seizures if you are a hard core alcoholic, but I don't know if she was. We saw one video where she was obviously drunk, but if she was an alcoholic, her liver tests would have come back with damage mentioned. Outside of the husband, we have no real confirmation of her being an alcoholic, getting drugs illegally etc. I do think if you are such a hard core drinker than you would have seizures, your liver would show up as seriously damaged. 

Good point about the liver tests.

Edited May 2, 2016 by ari333

[RCharter]

On 4/30/2016 at 10:55 AM, ari333 said:

This will sound weird , but I'll say it anyway.

Some folks just give off a vibe of "I did it" - It can be their words or gestures or expressions or fake something or other..... IDK what. . This dude did not have that imo. I know that sounds stupid.

Its this part of the prosecution that is annoying to me.  

So...apparently, he was upset during the phone call because he felt remorse....and he had planned the phone call and come up with a story.  But then he didn't have enough time to hide the "remorse?"  I think this is what upsets me about the police departments on so many of these stories.  No matter what you do, you can be painted as guilty.  If you cried, you cried too much and you're clearly a fake......if you didn't cry and showed signs of shock, you're a psychopath.  

If you get an attorney, you're clearly guilty....but if you don't get an attorney, you can be subject to conditions for a false confession.

I don't think the prosecutor was driven by the family wealth, I think he was hungry to win a high profile case and never stopped to think that it would come at the expense of someone who wasn't guilty.

[RCharter]

18 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

i didn't see anything positive on the tox screen either so I missed that part. I am suspicious of the husband only because there is no cause of death, she had bruises on her neck and when women start talking about divorce is when the men kill them. Men don't want their wives to get either their money or their kids.

Some parts of this case annoyed me. I take pain meds for back pain. They are prescribed by the doctor and I neither hang out with addicts nor act unreasonable or out of it. I'm not sure I believe the story of her getting pills for her husband-did they have any proof besides what he said? I guess my point is, I don't know everything about this case; but I would hate to think if I died under mysterious circumstances it would be dragged out that I was an out of control addict.

As far as the comments that she could not kick the pills in one weekend. She obviously did not have those pills in her system. i have gone periods of time without my pain meds and have been OK except for being in terrible pain. It can be done. She could have had a seizure but they are really not that common and I tend to think they would have found a cause for the seizure if she did. There was not enough evidence to convict him, but I'm still not convinced he is innocent.

If the doctor wrote the RX for him, it would have been under his name, so I imagine that would be traceable either way.

The part I missed was if there was a triggering event for her to start taking pain medication.  If there wasn't, and she was simply taking those drugs recreationally, I think it puts her in a different boat than someone with a back injury.  Someone with an injury generally has the intention not to abuse, and if they do, their use starts out from an honest place and devolves.

While I would hate for my drug use to be dragged out in open court, I would even be more upset if I could potentially spend the rest of my life in jail when no one can even prove the victim was murdered.

[RCharter]

On 5/1/2016 at 6:03 AM, Lizzing said:

One thing the husband said bugged me: he claimed that he saw his doctor, and the doctor asked how his shoulder was doing.  Hubby was perplexed about the question and found out the doctor previously wrote the hubby a prescription for pain killers on the wife's claim hubby had injured himself, and the wife filled the script and kept the drugs for herself.  What kind of doctor would prescribe pain killers for a patient on the word of his wife?!?!  First, how would the doc know what kind of injury it was for sure, the actual degree of pain he was in, and what level of pain killers were protocol?  Second, since when do MDs write controlled substance scripts for unseen patients?  Given the opiod addiction problem in this country, the doc should have been investigated.

I suspect it was the family doctor that they have seen forever.  Powerful family that he doesn't want to piss off, so he is more likely to bend the rules and believe her.  I'm sure given that she was pretty, and moneyed, he may not have thought "addict."  I remember visiting my doctor...that I've seen for years, I was having some sciatic pain and almost right out of the gate my doctor offered me RX pain killers.  I didn't even have to ask, and he didn't really do any tests (not that you could)....and it was the one time I seriously side-eyed my doctor, because he is generally a pretty careful guy.  I declined, but I was always like "wow, I guess it is as easy as that.

I also think addicts just have a way of weaving a story that is believable enough to get them drugs.  I think its almost a survival instinct....it seems like its how so many addicts can keep getting RX's for years before they have to resort to pill mills, buying pills off the street, and heroin.

So yeah, I think a nice, sweet, rich wife that has known the doctor for years could have just mentioned it offhandedly as she was leaving "oh, you know, he just hurt his shoulder, and he has been working so hard that he can't get in to see you.  I know his shoulder is killing him, when he injured it a few years ago, he took oxy and it really helped..."

[Tdoc72]

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 1:49 PM, biakbiak said:

 

I imagine that has everything to do with wanting to be a part of their grandchildrens lives.

Ann Fazzino (Alex's sister in law) posted on FB that the maternal grandparents have never attempted to contact the grandchildren since Emily's death.  Not even when the little girl had cancer!  They also live in Missouri which has good grandparent rights laws. 

12 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

You can have seizures if you are a hard core alcoholic, but I don't know if she was. We saw one video where she was obviously drunk, but if she was an alcoholic, her liver tests would have come back with damage mentioned. Outside of the husband, we have no real confirmation of her being an alcoholic, getting drugs illegally etc. I do think if you are such a hard core drinker than you would have seizures, your liver would show up as seriously damaged. 

Ann also posted that she had Klonopin (a newspaper article said it was Clonazepam a drug used to treat withdrawal), alcohol and Adderall in her system when she died.  She also said that Emily's habit was 50 Vicodin a day.  Nick Fazzino (Alex's brother & Ann's husband) said she was getting them by doctor shopping (7 doctors & 4 pharmacies), ordering online and thru her parent's housekeeper.  The housekeeper admitted it to the police but pled the 5th repeatedly during the trial. 

And Nick said this about drowning:  According to Dr Catellier there is no way in forensic science to say anyone drown. The only way to say it in a autopsy is if someone witnessed it. There is only one sign that it could have been a drowning death at a persons autopsy, a froth like substance inside her throat, which Emily had.

(These posts were all on Dateline's Facebook page.  There were 2 or 3 posts about that episode.  Their remarks were usually a reply to a comment so if you go looking, make sure to open all replies.)

Edited May 3, 2016 by Tdoc72
fix drug name

[Tdoc72]

One last thing, Alex still lives with his parents in their home.  He put any insurance money into trust for the kids.

[RCharter]

2 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

And Nick said this about drowning:  According to Dr Catellier there is no way in forensic science to say anyone drown. The only way to say it in a autopsy is if someone witnessed it. There is only one sign that it could have been a drowning death at a persons autopsy, a froth like substance inside her throat, which Emily had.

Wouldn't there be water in the lungs if someone drowned?  But overall, very informative post...thank you.

[Madding crowd]

The tox screen didn't show any of this stuff in her system so I don't know if I believe it. You can tell if people drown, they have water in their lungs. 

[partofme]

I'm not sure who this Ann person is and why I should believe anything she says.

I did find the victim's mother and her form of detox to be shady.

That said, I was suspicious of the husband, thought it was odd that he said on the 911 call and in his interrogation that his wife committed suicide.  Also thought it was odd that he was upset about his wife not being there for events in his kids life now when he wanted full custody.

[walnutqueen]

9 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

Ann Fazzino (Alex's sister in law) posted on FB that the maternal grandparents have never attempted to contact the grandchildren since Emily's death.  Not even when the little girl had cancer!  They also live in Missouri which has good grandparent rights laws. 

Ann also posted that she had Klonopin (a newspaper article said it was Clonazepam a drug used to treat withdrawal), alcohol and Adderall in her system when she died.  She also said that Emily's habit was 50 Vicodin a day.  Nick Fazzino (Alex's brother & Ann's husband) said she was getting them by doctor shopping (7 doctors & 4 pharmacies), ordering online and thru her parent's housekeeper.  The housekeeper admitted it to the police but pled the 5th repeatedly during the trial. 

And Nick said this about drowning:  According to Dr Catellier there is no way in forensic science to say anyone drown. The only way to say it in a autopsy is if someone witnessed it. There is only one sign that it could have been a drowning death at a persons autopsy, a froth like substance inside her throat, which Emily had.

(These posts were all on Dateline's Facebook page.  There were 2 or 3 posts about that episode.  Their remarks were usually a reply to a comment so if you go looking, make sure to open all replies.)

50 Vicodin a day?!?

I need to see that tox screen.

[RCharter]

1 hour ago, partofme said:

I did find the victim's mother and her form of detox to be shady.

That said, I was suspicious of the husband, thought it was odd that he said on the 911 call and in his interrogation that his wife committed suicide.  Also thought it was odd that he was upset about his wife not being there for events in his kids life now when he wanted full custody.

Yeah, I don't buy the "oh no, we totally didn't care about our image at all!"  It sounded somewhat insincere.

I wonder if he didn't want full custody more as a bargaining chip to get some money.  I'm imagining he would have gotten the house if the kids were in his custody.  I mean even if legally he didn't have rights to it because the grandparents owned it, I can't imagine them letting their grandchildren go homeless.

[RCharter]

On 3/5/2016 at 1:06 PM, saber5055 said:

Professional grifters make their living off of using people. They are smooth, have an answer for everything, and tell their victims exactly what they want to hear. I've known such a person; it's easy to be manipulated if one is trusting and the grifter is SO LIKABLE! And that grifter always says SUCH NICE THINGS and is INTERESTED IN ME! So yeah, I can see her never being questioned, or if she was, having just the right answer. This is a person who had been working multiple victims all her life. She was good.

I always feel like grifters know who to pick....and its generally the nicest people that are too courteous to ask a lot of questions and will engage them.  

I generally will just either try to close myself off, or decide how much money I'm willing to lose.

Sometimes its just easier to hand someone $20 just to get them off your back.  You don't have to feel guilty, and you're hardly giving them the bank.  The trick is in giving them the money before they try to "close you."

I did that the other day with a guy who sat next to me on a train and gave me an hour long sob story.  I guess it was worth the $20 for the entertainment value of the story he made up as we went along.

[backformore]

Maybe 50 Vicodin a day meant 50 mg/day -   which would be 10 pills.  That makes more sense to me.  

  Vicodin not only has a narcotic in it, it also has Tylenol - can mess up your liver really bad, so you can die from the effects long after you stop using. 

[walnutqueen]

3 hours ago, RCharter said:

I always feel like grifters know who to pick....and its generally the nicest people that are too courteous to ask a lot of questions and will engage them.  

I generally will just either try to close myself off, or decide how much money I'm willing to lose.

Sometimes its just easier to hand someone $20 just to get them off your back.  You don't have to feel guilty, and you're hardly giving them the bank.  The trick is in giving them the money before they try to "close you."

I did that the other day with a guy who sat next to me on a train and gave me an hour long sob story.  I guess it was worth the $20 for the entertainment value of the story he made up as we went along.

I can't afford cat food because I'm addicted to cigarettes and crime shows - can you spot me a $20?   :-D

[Christina]

As a long-time watcher of Intervention, 50 pills a day is not only believable, it's a moderate amount for an addict. The amount of pills people can take without dying is incredible.

I know that all these shows have to try and fit in a lot of info into a compressed time frame, but while watching this, I could not figure out why he was even charged. Whatever info they had that made them keep searching for an ME to rule it homicide didn't seem to be shown. They have a throw-away comment that the doctors wanted her to go to an inpatient rehab but she went to her mother's instead, without telling her soon-to-be ex-husband, who she was apparently still living with, and that her mother declared her sober. Then, made an issue of the husband telling the cops she was an addict. Well, she was.

Her sister claiming he was in the mafia and wouldn't let her leave him and live made me think the sister was on something, too. Substance abuse causing a seizure or her insulin to drop makes more sense to me than murder. The prosecutor sought a second opinion on the autopsy for a reason, but I couldn't figure out why. It seems like this show needed to be a two hour episode with a lot more info provided. The bruise on the neck and bump on the head could be explained by him pulling her out of the tub, and didn't seem extensive. If they were, it wasn't shown to us. I found this episode frustratingly sparse. 

[Madding crowd]

I often feel that numbers used on intervention are a gross exaggeration. The tylenol content of vicodin would completely destroy your liver at 50 pills a day. And not to get too off topic, but with the ever increasing number of deaths due to prescription drugs (a friend's daughter recently died of this), I wouldn't want anyone to actually think they could take this number of pills a day and survive. Especially mixed with alcohol or other drugs.

We will never know what happened here. I will continue to think the story odd because of no cause of death. And if the woman really went from taking 50 pills a day to 0, her husband would have to have known she was in a serious condition and he would have/should have taken her to the hospital. 

[RCharter]

9 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

I can't afford cat food because I'm addicted to cigarettes and crime shows - can you spot me a $20?   :-D

LOL...that depends....tell me more about this cat......is he funny like Grumpy Cat?  does she do tricks?  if I give you an extra $5 will you buy the fancy feast?  

[RCharter]

8 hours ago, Christina said:

The prosecutor sought a second opinion on the autopsy for a reason, but I couldn't figure out why. It seems like this show needed to be a two hour episode with a lot more info provided. The bruise on the neck and bump on the head could be explained by him pulling her out of the tub, and didn't seem extensive. If they were, it wasn't shown to us. I found this episode frustratingly sparse. 

I think he needed the "second opinion" in order to bring charges against the husband.  If you have a body and can't even prove that the person has been murdered I don't think you could bring the charge.  Murder is "the killing of one human being by another with malice aforethought" so if you can't even show that the the human being was killed by another person it seems like it would be tough to even be able to bring the charge.  Generally....as far as I know, murder cases without a body have an eyewitness or a confession.

[RCharter]

3 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I often feel that numbers used on intervention are a gross exaggeration. The tylenol content of vicodin would completely destroy your liver at 50 pills a day. And not to get too off topic, but with the ever increasing number of deaths due to prescription drugs (a friend's daughter recently died of this), I wouldn't want anyone to actually think they could take this number of pills a day and survive. Especially mixed with alcohol or other drugs.

We will never know what happened here. I will continue to think the story odd because of no cause of death. And if the woman really went from taking 50 pills a day to 0, her husband would have to have known she was in a serious condition and he would have/should have taken her to the hospital. 

I only wonder where she got 50 pills a day.  I understand pill mills, and even an RX for her husband...but 50 pills a day is still a LOT of pills to get.  Lets assume you have an RX to take 2 pills every 3 hours, that is 16 pills a day.....maybe you have the RX for your husband for another 16 pills a day.  That is 32 pills a day.  That still leaves her with a daily shortage of 18 pills.  

And that doesn't even sound like a normal RX for vicodin.  I can't envision a doctor RX'ing more.

And don't most pharmacies have to keep that sort of RX'ing information on a federal database?  How did she get those additional 18 pills a day?  I mean, maybe once or twice you can go to the pharmacy and claim that you lost the pills, but if they are checking the federal database aren't they going to see if thats a pattern?

I also don't think you can get an automatic RX for those drugs, you have to physically bring in a paper prescription that they take from you and do not give back.  Your doctor can't fax it to you, it must be on a RX pad page.  Maybe she was buying it on the street...

[walnutqueen]

5 hours ago, RCharter said:

LOL...that depends....tell me more about this cat......is he funny like Grumpy Cat?  does she do tricks?  if I give you an extra $5 will you buy the fancy feast?  

Well ... its cats (of course, reclusive TV watchin chain smokin old weirdo here!) - 1 remaining indoor, 7 semi-feral outdoor, some friendly raccoons, a shy possum and an inoffensive skunk.  My indoor Babalu doesn't do many tricks, but when he's playful he snakes his head so he can look at me upside down, sometimes practically standing on his head to do so.  But his real claim to fame is his love of spanking - he stands still & purrs while I spank out a drum solo to the entire opening theme music to Game of Thrones.   More importantly, he alerts me when anyone approaches our home - that means the mailman - 6 days a week!  So serial killers beware - we are SO ready for your soon-to-be-machete-hacked ass!   :-)

I buy the cheapo cat food, not Fancy Feast 'cause my vet says it gives cats the shits.  We'd probably perform tricks for a can of tuna, though.

[backformore]

Yes, narcotics are controlled, pharmacies report all the prescriptions, there's a data base.  And there's no automatic refills, you need a printed script each time.  The prescription for her husband is easily explained if he had a prior injury that was acting up again, and she mentioned it to the doctor.  A lot of doctors would give a short-term script and say "have him see me next week if it's not better".  

BUT -  a lot of stuff is sold on the streets as Vicodin, some of it is actual narcotics, some is not.  When people get addicted to narcotic pain relievers and can't get the pills from the doctor any more, they turn to dealers and buy stuff that looks like the same thing.

[Tdoc72]

11 hours ago, RCharter said:

I only wonder where she got 50 pills a day.  I understand pill mills, and even an RX for her husband...but 50 pills a day is still a LOT of pills to get.  Lets assume you have an RX to take 2 pills every 3 hours, that is 16 pills a day.....maybe you have the RX for your husband for another 16 pills a day.  That is 32 pills a day.  That still leaves her with a daily shortage of 18 pills.  

And that doesn't even sound like a normal RX for vicodin.  I can't envision a doctor RX'ing more.

And don't most pharmacies have to keep that sort of RX'ing information on a federal database?  How did she get those additional 18 pills a day?  I mean, maybe once or twice you can go to the pharmacy and claim that you lost the pills, but if they are checking the federal database aren't they going to see if thats a pattern?

I also don't think you can get an automatic RX for those drugs, you have to physically bring in a paper prescription that they take from you and do not give back.  Your doctor can't fax it to you, it must be on a RX pad page.  Maybe she was buying it on the street...

From my above post:   Nick Fazzino (Alex's brother & Ann's husband) said she was getting them by doctor shopping (7 doctors & 4 pharmacies), ordering online and thru her parent's housekeeper.  The housekeeper admitted it to the police but pled the 5th repeatedly during the trial. 

[Tdoc72]

On May 3, 2016 at 10:38 AM, partofme said:

I'm not sure who this Ann person is and why I should believe anything she says.

I did find the victim's mother and her form of detox to be shady.

That said, I was suspicious of the husband, thought it was odd that he said on the 911 call and in his interrogation that his wife committed suicide.  Also thought it was odd that he was upset about his wife not being there for events in his kids life now when he wanted full custody.

Ann is married to Alex's brother Nick. You can believe her or not but I found her credible. Most if not all of what she said on FB was testified to in trial. Reporter Dennis McGee wrote articles every day of the trial for The Courier. Here's a link to one: http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/fazzino-murder-trial-gets-underway-in-decorah/article_3300f4e4-5bce-5733-a61e-aef71021c786.html. I can't remember how I saw the rest. Advance search on Emily Fazzino maybe.

I didn't like the mother either. Emily told a doctor ( I think, could've been a friend) that her mother was an alcoholic for 25 yrs.. But Emily was known to lie, so ?

IMO I don't think he was doing it maliciously.  I think he was worried about the kids and her taking care of them.  I think he wanted her to get treatment.  His divorce attorney testified to that. (Also another relative that is an attorney was the one that hold him to tape her.)  But we can disagree?.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Tdoc72

[Tdoc72]

On May 3, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Madding crowd said:

The tox screen didn't show any of this stuff in her system so I don't know if I believe it. You can tell if people drown, they have water in their lungs. 

I always thought so too. This is what the original ME had to say (about 1/2way down the page): http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/emily-fazzino-s-injuries-detailed-in-decorah-murder-trial/article_cfa71b6e-8412-5dd8-99c5-e978c82cd65b.html

[RCharter]

22 minutes ago, Tdoc72 said:

From my above post:   Nick Fazzino (Alex's brother & Ann's husband) said she was getting them by doctor shopping (7 doctors & 4 pharmacies), ordering online and thru her parent's housekeeper.  The housekeeper admitted it to the police but pled the 5th repeatedly during the trial. 

But again, these things are tracked through a federal database.  Or at least that had been my understanding

So even if you're going to pharmacy A, they are required to do a check to make sure you aren't getting from pharmacy B and pharmacy C.

[Tdoc72]

Disclaimer:  I am not related or involved in this case in any way. I had many of the same questions and went looking. The Courier, an Iowan newspaper had a great set of articles by Dennis MaGee about the trial that gave me a better sense of what was going on. This is a link to the first one: http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/fazzino-murder-trial-gets-underway-in-decorah/article_3300f4e4-5bce-5733-a61e-aef71021c786.html. I think I used the Emily Fazzino or Alexander Fazzino tag underneath the article to find the rest. Sorry for so many posts. 

I thunk the jury was correct with the not guilty and that he is actually innocent. 

Edited May 4, 2016 by Tdoc72
Spelling

[Madding crowd]

11 minutes ago, Tdoc72 said:

I always thought so too. This is what the original ME had to say (about 1/2way down the page): http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/emily-fazzino-s-injuries-detailed-in-decorah-murder-trial/article_cfa71b6e-8412-5dd8-99c5-e978c82cd65b.html

I read through this but I didn't see anything to suggest that drowning cannot be a cause of death or that water in the lungs is not used in determining this. This suggests that she may or may not have drowned, but that this examiner thought she was likely murdered. I also say nothing about 50 vicodin a day being in her system. it looks like she had been prescribed drugs for anxiety and other conditions, and for all we know those conditions could have been caused by a troubled marriage. 

[methadonna]

I'm at people and I love don't know enough with a the best thing ever is a good time with right now uto and I love 

[Fable]

On 5/2/2016 at 0:54 PM, editorgrrl said:

Who murders someone and successfully flees the country, but comes back to call 911 days later? 

That was weird!  If you are going to leave and flee the country, why not stage a robbery, take and dispose of the gun and return several days later to claim you came home and found him shot?  I don't get it.  

[RCharter]

If I had to bet money, I would say he is innocent.   But there are still some questions, so its hard to be 100%.

I know for sure that this case shouldn't have gone anywhere.  I don't think it was pressure from the family, but I think this is a DA who saw a high profile case and wanted some publicity.

[Christina]

Based on the article posted by @TDOC72 where the ME discusses the bruises, I can see why the prosecutor sought a second opinion. I didn't get it at all from the episode. It sounded like bumps and bruises from pulling her out of the tub. 

 

Quote

Catellier, a forensic pathologist for the state of Iowa, conducted the autopsy on Emily Fazzino, who displayed bruises on her forehead, arm, thigh and neck. She noted what others described as a “goose egg” on the woman’s forehead also had parallel lines through the bruise, suggesting Emily Fazzino’s head struck something with an edge.

Catellier said she discovered more bruises over a wider area on the woman’s head. Bruising was evident on her forehead, above her right ear and on the back of her skull on both sides.

<SNIP>

Using photos projected on a large screen in the courtroom, Catellier also explained internal injuries to Emily Fazzino’s throat. Besides marks on the skin, Catellier said she found bruising inside Emily Fazzino’s neck.

<SNIP>

Catellier said in one medical record, Emily Fazzino admitted she was addicted to opiates and once had taken someone else’s prescription drugs without permission.

I agree with the jury here. To me, there is more than a reasonable doubt that a murder was committed. 

[ButterQueen]

IMO, there was evidence that the Dad had been dead longer than was told to the police.  I was shocked the judge dismissed the charges.  If the son didn't pull the trigger, the mom did.  The man was killed seated at his computer.  Glad the golden boy was tossed from Cornell.  No justice here.

[ButterQueen]

Sadly, I believe he killed her.  My husband is a medical doctor and the injuries bothered him.  

[PepperMonkey]

I hated this episode. I wanted that guy to be burned alive as his punishment after what he did to the family pets. LET ALONE his wife, who, by the way, had stuck with him the entire time he was fat, and she probably told him all the time it didn't matter, she loved him anyway, he didn't have to change for her, etc.

But he gets weight loss surgery, works out for 3 weeks, buys a bunch of black clothes, and decides he needs a younger model??? Did he kill his wife because, in his "religion", it's better to be a widower than a divorcee?

His wife was no troll, either. I hope his children NEVER forgive him. He doesn't deserve their forgiveness OR their love.

[Tdoc72]

On May 4, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Madding crowd said:

I read through this but I didn't see anything to suggest that drowning cannot be a cause of death or that water in the lungs is not used in determining this. This suggests that she may or may not have drowned, but that this examiner thought she was likely murdered. I also say nothing about 50 vicodin a day being in her system. it looks like she had been prescribed drugs for anxiety and other conditions, and for all we know those conditions could have been caused by a troubled marriage. 

I thought it was odd she didn't mention water being in the lungs. But it was only an article & not a trial transcript. So maybe she did. I think she would've put that in the original autopsy though. 

The 50 Vicodin a day is what her doctor (not ME, the one trying to get her into rehab) testified to that was her habit at one time. Emily admitted that to her. I don't think Emily was taking that when she died. My theory is that she knew she was going to be in a custody battle over the kids and tried to stop for possible testing, leading to a possible withdrawal situation (for either drugs, alcohol or both). 

I don't think anyone will ever write a book about this case, but I would love to read one.  I'd also love to read the trial transcripts.

[Christina]

The only evidence they had were his fingerprints on the ammo and ammo box and him telling the cops he did it. Clearly not enough to convict. /sarcasm

I was left wondering if the judge didn't want the young man's life to be spent behind bars when they couldn't get one single person to testify that the husband was a decent human being. I was reading the live tweets while the episode aired, and the local TV station reported that every witness called said he was mean and nasty. There was also a post that during negotiations, the reporters could here the jurors yelling at each other. It got that heated in the room. 

[ChristmasJones]

On 5/4/2016 at 0:16 PM, RCharter said:

But again, these things are tracked through a federal database.  Or at least that had been my understanding

So even if you're going to pharmacy A, they are required to do a check to make sure you aren't getting from pharmacy B and pharmacy C.

It is not a federal data base -  the prescription monitoring programs are run by individual states - you can read about it here: http://www.pdmpassist.org/content/prescription-drug-monitoring-frequently-asked-questions-faq

[RCharter]

1 minute ago, ChristmasJones said:

It is not a federal data base -  the prescription monitoring programs are run by individual states - you can read about it here: http://www.pdmpassist.org/content/prescription-drug-monitoring-frequently-asked-questions-faq

My understanding was that states were not required to participate in the monitoring program, but that if they chose to do so they would get information from the other 48 states (49 states in total use it).  So I had thought there was one federal database that the 49 states fed into....not 49 separate databases. But it could be 49 separate databases.  But even if her RX information was tracked on a state database, it doesn't sound like she was seeing out of state doctors.  But I think it would be better for all states to feed into a federal database, because it seems like it would be easy to trick the system if you were on the border or willing to drive a few hours. 

[Ohmo]

On 5/1/2016 at 9:03 AM, Lizzing said:

One thing the husband said bugged me: he claimed that he saw his doctor, and the doctor asked how his shoulder was doing.  Hubby was perplexed about the question and found out the doctor previously wrote the hubby a prescription for pain killers on the wife's claim hubby had injured himself, and the wife filled the script and kept the drugs for herself.  What kind of doctor would prescribe pain killers for a patient on the word of his wife?!?!  First, how would the doc know what kind of injury it was for sure, the actual degree of pain he was in, and what level of pain killers were protocol?  Second, since when do MDs write controlled substance scripts for unseen patients?  Given the opiod addiction problem in this country, the doc should have been investigated.

The wife's family bugged me.  The mother was delusional if she thought a long weekend of going cold turkey would clean up her daughter's addiction.  And when the mother first described the husband as "EYEtalian" my radar went off, so I wasn't shocked the sister brought up the crazy mafia theory.  I've met people (and sadly am related to some of them) who pronounce Italian that way, and they have been, to a person, extremely prejudicial on race and national origin. YMMV.

When I first heard the injuries, it sounded plausible that she had a seizure or passed out from dextoxing & the temperature differential getting into a hot bath.  The ones around the neck did give me pause, but lack of other evidence and expert shopping by the prosecution left me feeling the jury did the right thing.

This didn't strike me as that strange because she died in 2012, and it was stipulated that Emily had the issue with pills a year before that.  That's 2011, and even within five years time, the painkiller issue has changed.  At that time, I had family members who were having dental procedures and they were given some strong stuff that they probably wouldn't be given today.  It sounded to me that Alex had a patient relationship with this doctor, so I could see, at that time, if he had seen the doctor recently, that Emily might have been able to get the doctor to give her pain meds in Alex's name.

I would have voted "not guilty." Like others have said, I found Alex believable and credible.  Emily had a problem with pills, the Face Time video showed her to be very impaired, and IIRC, Amy Winehouse wasn't drunk at the time of her death, but her prolonged alcoholism contributed to her death.  I can completely buy that something similar happened to Emily.

[Ohmo]

Emily Fazzino’s Drunk Skype Video With Husband Shown In Court

[Ohmo]

No discussion about this episode?  I thought it was the most unusual episode that we've had in quite awhile.  Plus, the way the episode went, I expected those two detectives to become a couple.  That's totally the vibe I got, and I was SHOCKED when they were not only not a couple, but he also died in the line of duty.

Annie still seemed like a troubled girl, but it is tragic to think what that lie cost her.

[JudyObscure]

 We really, really need to get it through to young girls that you can't make the boy you love, love you back by getting  pregnant by him, much less by pretending you're pregnant.  He'll just hate you for trapping him.

I agree with Ohmo,  this one was unusual. That first suspect was such a sociopath. This must be the first time that a man's alibi was that he couldn't have done it because he was busy killing someone else.

The young detective was unusual, too.  She's was so overwhelmed when she was first assigned the case that she went to her parent's house and cried her eyes out.  Then went to work and solved the case.

[A.Ham]

I saw it and thought it was kind of unusual as well. A little too much focus on the female detective being a rookie and her backstory. And I thought it was odd how she was almost crying in the scene where they discuss the male detective getting killed, and then she tearfully mentions that he was a good source of info about the case because he worked it before. She may have actually been crying about her friend, but the scene looked at bit odd to me because it sounded like she was more interested in wrapping up her first case than in her friend. Maybe it was the editing that did her no favors. Having said that, kudos and props to her for being persistent and looking at all options on the table, even when there were big mishaps done by others (ie: lab doing the testing with the incorrect DNA kit).

When "boyfriend" Chris immediately mentioned a mysterious, unknown "LJ" I got this vibe that LJ did not really exist. Also, soooo creepy that he took a call from Annie's mom while he was still around the crime scene, probably having just finished killing her. Ice cold blood in that kid's veins, killing the girl and what he potentially thought was going to be his kid. SMH. I agree Annie was troubled (wanting to run off at 15?) but she definitely did not deserve that fate.

Very unusual that they got a witness to a completely different crime and followed those leads. I wish the original detectives had checked the suspect's whereabouts a bit better and determined he could not have truly been anywhere near Annie or the crime scene, like the female detective did.

[ButterQueen]

I didn't make it past 30 minutes.  Too much about the new detective.  Glad she caught the killer.

[editorgrrl]

49 minutes ago, ButterQueen said:

I didn't make it past 30 minutes. Too much about the new detective. Glad she caught the killer.

This one felt padded. As soon as they showed Annie's diary saying, "I lied to my friends about being p[regnant]," I knew the alleged father did it.

19 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

We really, really need to get it through to young girls that you can't make the boy you love, love you back by getting pregnant by him, much less by pretending you're pregnant. He'll just hate you for trapping him.

I agree! Unfortunately, women of all ages make this mistake.

Here's the episode description: 

Quote

A teenage girl is murdered at a scenic spot on a Utah river. The case almost goes cold until a hairdresser turned detective, with the help of the victim's determined mom, finds the truth. Dennis Murphy reports Friday May 6 at 9:30/8:30c.

[Hank3]

This was a solid episode IMO.  It was 15 minutes longer so we were able to get more info about the case.  I also found it odd that the female detective didn't really discuss or lament at the loss of her detective friend.  She talked more about how she lost her information/intell source.  As A.Ham said, maybe the way the producers edited that segment was the culprit.

I totally missed the part where Chris (the young BF) was called by the mom.  So he actually answered the call from the mom?  When I watched it, I thought they got the ping from that call after the murder happened.  

The young detective's tenacity has to be admired though.  Just when it seemed like all was lost, she went back to the beginning and restarted her investigation.  What a sad story of a young life lost...   

[ChristmasJones]

I could relate to when the female detective was tearing up about her cop friend that had been killed. She did say she lost a friend as she was crying, and then added about how she lost everything he knew about the case.

It made me think of a male co-worker I once had. We became extremely close (totally platonic) during a very stressful time at our company. A merger was going on, there was all sorts of conflict among the employees, and you couldn't trust anyone. So we became allies and really depended on each other to get through all that. And we did become great friends too. He really helped me through a lot of tough times at work, and I know if he had been killed during that time, I would be crying not only because he was my friend, but because of how much I relied on him to get me through all that crap at work.

Anyway, I liked this episode. I wish they had gone more into the background of "LJ" once we found out it was him, but I realize that Dateline attempts to make their episodes have a mystery narrative, where the truth isn't revealed until the end. You can contrast this with the cheaper production true crime shows on the ID channel, for example, where in the first two minutes, they tell you who killed who and how and why. And then the rest of the episode shows you that.

This is one reason I do enjoy Dateline and 48 Hours, even if they are lacking in details of the crimes at times.