All Episodes Discussion

[cooksdelight]

This case was on last night. I fell asleep but pretty sure it was a rerun.

https://nypost.com/2018/05/08/college-football-player-found-guilty-of-murdering-cheerleader-girlfriend/

[JudyObscure]

I haven't seen it yet but the article pretty much said it all.  I was thinking how typical that the newspaper thought he being a football player and she being a cheerleader made it more important, then I clicked on the article and it says, he was a "division III football player," like if he had been some other division it would make a difference.  She was 16 and they had been dating 2 years. Just imagine, that poor girl has had to deal with a stalker since  she was a child.

[iMonrey]

This wasn't even a mystery. I knew it was Riley 3 minutes in. 

Ironically, even though he was found guilty, I could potentially believe that he was just trying to scare her so he could be the hero. The whole kidnapping story was a ruse with the same motive. And the fact that he was able to shoot through the wall directly into her skull in one helluva lucky shot. 

[TVbitch]

If the parents had such a bad feeling about Riley, and she was only 14 when she started dating him, and they were checking her phone and seeing him being that controling, I don't think "there was no telling her how to feel" is a good enough reason to let them continue. 

And this moment in "Odd Fashion Choices by Andrea Canning": a hot pink mini-dress with flowers on it to interview the parents of a murdered teenager. I would not even wear that to an office party. :)

[cooksdelight]

My parents didn’t let me date until I was 16. Of course, we had no cell phone or Internet. I had a curfew of 11 pm. Miss it and I got grounded. 

I think her parents let their free-spirited daughter loose just a little more than I would have. But that’s just how I was raised.

They saw all the signs and ignored them. They will have to live with that. I’m not trying to blame the parents, but I think they were not heeding what was right in front of them.

[biakbiak]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

This wasn't even a mystery. I knew it was Riley 3 minutes in. 

Ironically, even though he was found guilty, I could potentially believe that he was just trying to scare her so he could be the hero. The whole kidnapping story was a ruse with the same motive. And the fact that he was able to shoot through the wall directly into her skull in one helluva lucky shot. 

Yeah I could be missing something but I was not convinced by the fact that he intended to kill her, I mean one shot through a wall that didn’t have a window to see how she was lying on her doesn’t seem to be an easy kill shot! It doesn’t matter if he might have been five feet away he can’t see through walls! 

[thejuicer]

The one silver lining was Riley's two friends going to the detectives and helping with the plan to have him arrested. We hear so many bad stories about teenagers and this restored my faith (temporarily) in humanity.

[biakbiak]

7 minutes ago, thejuicer said:

The one silver lining was Riley's two friends going to the detectives and helping with the plan to have him arrested. We hear so many bad stories about teenagers and this restored my faith (temporarily) in humanity.

That absolutely pissed me off, I get they were most likely over 18 but if I were either of their parents I would have read them the riot act for putting themselves in danger and not at the bare minimum contacting a lawyer before dealing with the police.

[cooksdelight]

46 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

one shot through a wall

Weren’t there two shots? One on the other wall that would have been shot into where her headboard was?

[biakbiak]

3 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

Weren’t there two shots? One on the other wall that would have been shot into where her headboard was?

Perhaps they kept showing only the same bullet hole over so maybe I missed it but even if it was in the direction of the headboard it’s still a lucky shot to hit her head. 

[TVbitch]

There were two holes.

And yeah, how did that one teen put himself undercover with the police to trap a murderer without his parents even knowing! He said he "didn't tell them". Um, so police can just enlist a teen for a dangerous thing like that without talking to and getting permission from the parents?! Then police almost blew it on top of it by losing sound and getting stuck at the gate!

[Irlandesa]

Yes they can because the teens in this instance were over 18.  The boyfriend was older than the girlfriend and they were all in college. 

I don't blame the parents.  They were trying to do what they could to warn their daughter but there are still ways teenagers at that age can hide things/run away.  They were playing the long game.  And they were right eventually.   Their daughter realized he was an ass and broke up with him.  

That's when he decided to kill her.

[One Tough Cookie]

Pam Huppp did an Alford plea to killing the man she lured into her home supposedly to make  Dateline call and  and killed him has been sentenced to life w/op parole.

I don't know why, but this case fascinates me.

Edited August 26, 2019 by One Tough Cookie

[Hank3]

RE: Riley.  Did anyone notice towards the end of the episode that Riley had gained A LOT of weight (after they read the verdict).  There was footage of when he was in court for his plea before the trial started and he was very fit (from being an athlete/wide receiver), so I guess two years had transpired while he was in prison?  I get that he was no longer playing football and not getting as much physical activity...but do they feed prisoners that much good food?

Edited August 28, 2019 by Hank3

[biakbiak]

14 minutes ago, Hank3 said:

but do they feed prisoners that much good food?

Quite the opposite but it’s super shitty but super carb heavy and lots of empty calories which can lead to weight gain.

Edited August 28, 2019 by biakbiak

[saber5055]

On 8/28/2019 at 12:17 AM, biakbiak said:

Quite the opposite but it’s super shitty but super carb heavy and lots of empty calories which can lead to weight gain.

Spoken by one who knows. Personally, I don't have any idea what prisoners eat, but somehow I imagine it's better than the average joe's meal.

Some guys in prison stay super buff, they work out all the time, in the yard and in their cells. Others are lazy asses who spend their time sitting or sleeping. I'd guess Riley is a member of that second club.

[biakbiak]

11 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

Spoken by one who knows. Personally, I don't have any idea what prisoners eat, but somehow I imagine it's better than the average joe's meal.

I don’t have personal experience but given the food strikes that have been happening I have read a lot and I don’t know what you consider the “average Joe” but the food in prison/jails is crappy. 

Also, there are a gazillion different factors involved in being able to get “ripped” while incarcerated especially at jails where people are housed while waiting for trials which don’t tend to have the same facilities versus prisons where one goes after conviction.

[saber5055]

1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

Also, there are a gazillion different factors involved in being able to get “ripped” while incarcerated especially at jails where people are housed while waiting for trials which don’t tend to have the same facilities versus prisons where one goes after conviction.

Push ups. They're free. So are crunches/sit ups. Don't need a gym membership to do those. Or much space. As for food, prisoners can and do strike about anything they want. Is their fried chicken too crispy/not crispy enough? Strike. No ranch dressing, just vinaigrette? Poor things. Strike.

Here's a menu from a federal prison:

While maybe some consider spaghetti and meatballs or bran cereal or salisbury steak with gravy "crappy," IMO every one of those meals beats what I had for breakfast, a week-old doughnut bought on discount, and my lunch was one half of a frozen pepperoni pizza purchased on sale for $1.50.

Prisoners would have something to strike about if they had to eat MY daily meals. I'd love to have any one of those above meals made for me and served to me on a tray. I wouldn't even have to do dishes afterward. Sweet.

Anyone who is overweight, in prison or out, means they spend their time sitting/sleeping/doing nothing. It's not the fault of the environment, it's the fault of the person.

I say this as someone who sits and sleeps a lot.

[biakbiak]

7 hours ago, saber5055 said:

While maybe some consider spaghetti and meatballs or bran cereal or salisbury steak with gravy "crappy," IMO every one of those meals beats what I had for breakfast, a week-old doughnut bought on discount, and my lunch was one half of a frozen pepperoni pizza purchased on sale for $1.50.

No actually the point is that naming something a bran muffin or Salisbury steak doesn’t mean it has any bran it or that the “steak” isnt mostly fillers and has harldy any nutritinal value.

Over crowding, depression, medications to keep people docile, and numerous other factors effect physical fitness of prisoners, assuming someone is lazy because they gain weight in prison is not accurate.

Edited August 30, 2019 by biakbiak

[JudyObscure]

I think they also get tins of cookies every time their mom or wife comes to visit and they comfort themselves by eating and watching TV or reading all the time.  At least that's what I'd do.  Whatever the cause, I've noted the jail weight gain in almost all our perpetrators.

The first true crime book I ever read was  Ann Rule's "Everything She Ever Wanted," about a pretty southern belle who manipulated her husband into killing his parents.  She must have gained over a hundred pounds in prison.  It seemed like a good deterrent to her brand of crime, but she got out and just did the killing herself next time.

[saber5055]

Not sure if last night's episode was a rerun, but it was new to me. The video-game clerk who was murdered in her shop. The show -- for once! -- made it obvious to me that the man who worked there didn't do it. I can't imagine being the wife of the killer and having to lie in bed next to him after he confesses that he's a murderer. She is indeed lucky she got away, and good for her for eventually having the bravery to come forward. At least now, with the guy in jail, she won't have to keep looking behind her and staying awake at night on the chance that was the night he was coming to murder her.

It was a good lesson for all shops and malls to install CC. Now.

On 8/30/2019 at 5:13 AM, JudyObscure said:

She must have gained over a hundred pounds in prison.  It seemed like a good deterrent to her brand of crime, but she got out and just did the killing herself next time.

LOL! Did she lose the weight when she got out? Inquiring minds want to know!

[cooksdelight]

Josh is becoming Keith Jr tonight with the way he’s delivering the last line before a commercial break.

[JudyObscure]

15 hours ago, saber5055 said:

Not sure if last night's episode was a rerun, but it was new to me. The video-game clerk who was murdered in her shop. The show -- for once! -- made it obvious to me that the man who worked there didn't do it. I can't imagine being the wife of the killer and having to lie in bed next to him after he confesses that he's a murderer. She is indeed lucky she got away, and good for her for eventually having the bravery to come forward. At least now, with the guy in jail, she won't have to keep looking behind her and staying awake at night on the chance that was the night he was coming to murder her.

It was a good lesson for all shops and malls to install CC. Now.

LOL! Did she lose the weight when she got out? Inquiring minds want to know!

Nope she stayed fat. It was Pat Taylor Allanson, and she was so old and fat when she got out she couldn't manipulate men anymore so she got a job in the home health field and stole from her rich invalid patients while sprinkling their food with arsenic.  Her daughter turned her in.

Re the bolded.  I felt so sorry for that kid, all that suspicion around him because he hadn't looked in the office or called 911.   Lots of young people in their first jobs act like that.  They take no initiative on their own because they lack confidence, so they just follow the bosses orders. 

[TVbitch]

The killer was a piece of work. ...I'm going to ask my wife to shoot me in the head, but, uh, what the hell, I will rape her on last time first.

Then when the detective asks him why he robbed the store and killed that girl... "My family needed the money and I'm always putting others' need ahead of my own."

[iMonrey]

Quote

Not sure if last night's episode was a rerun, but it was new to me. The video-game clerk who was murdered in her shop. The show -- for once! -- made it obvious to me that the man who worked there didn't do it. 

"Everything She Knew" - yes, a repeat. Actually this episode pulled a bait and switch because at first it seemed obvious the co-worker did it, based on the formula these episodes usually follow. 

I remember when I first saw this one I was suspicious of the killer's wife and still remain so. Some of her story just sounds very performative. Like saying she saw the news on the TV about the victim and said "Oh, isn't that weird?" or something strange. I don't know, I just think she knew more than she let on and knew it sooner than she let on. 

[saber5055]

6 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Re the bolded.  I felt so sorry for that kid, all that suspicion around him because he hadn't looked in the office or called 911.   Lots of young people in their first jobs act like that.  They take no initiative on their own because they lack confidence, so they just follow the bosses orders. 

I agree. The show at first tried to make him look guilty, he's in the store that obviously was trashed/robbed and didn't look for his manager who was dead in the back room. But I was thinking the same as what he said later, that when he got to work and the store was locked, he thought, "Oh, shit, was I suppose to open? Now I'm gonna get canned. And who closed last night and left all this stuff laying around." I could feel his stress over thinking he had screwed up.

He sure looked different today compared to his photos of when the murder happened. But then I guess we could say that about pretty much everyone. Including me!

When they showed the feet of the murdered woman, it looked like she was laying on a sheet of plastic. I thought that was kinda odd.

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I remember when I first saw this one I was suspicious of the killer's wife and still remain so. Some of her story just sounds very performative. Like saying she saw the news on the TV about the victim and said "Oh, isn't that weird?" or something strange. I don't know, I just think she knew more than she let on and knew it sooner than she let on. 

I felt she thought something was up but didn't go to police right away because, gah, her husband is violent and a rapist and murderer and she was pretty much stuck with no way out. That I understand, the hopelessness of being stuck in an abusive relationship. But good on her that she did blow the whistle once she saw she had an out.

I was thinking when he asked her to shoot him after he taped her up and raped her, I might have shot him in the leg or foot, then drove away and called the police and left him writhing around on that deserted road and hopefully crippled for life. But that's just me.

The show sure used every photo of him they could find that made him look like some deranged satanic devil worshipper. He looked normal in his arrest/court videos.

I didn't get to the end of last night's episode, the two women searching for their sister's killer after she was targeted/killed in her parking garage. So ya'll are spared my thoughts on that.

Edited September 1, 2019 by saber5055

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Like saying she saw the news on the TV about the victim and said "Oh, isn't that weird?" or something strange.

At first I was a little suspicious until we learned the whole backstory of her basically being pushed into this relationship and abused while in it.  I didn't think it was strange that she pointed out the news story to him in that it was a place where he worked and it was on the news.

1 hour ago, saber5055 said:

I might have shot him in the leg or foot, then drove away and called the police and left him writhing around on that deserted road and hopefully crippled for life. But that's just me.

I don't blame her for not doing it.  She was right to worry about prison. 

[TVbitch]

On last night's episode, damn were lucky they got a conviction. I'm sure it was mostly due to that smug ass deciding he would take the stand. I rewound the DVR three times to watch his face when they read guilty. He is totally confident until they say "guilty" then you can see his face start to uncontrollable micro twitch and tremble. It is a thing of beauty. 

[Fable]

44 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

On last night's episode, damn were lucky they got a conviction. I'm sure it was mostly due to that smug ass deciding he would take the stand. I rewound the DVR three times to watch his face when they read guilty. He is totally confident until they say "guilty" then you can see his face start to uncontrollable micro twitch and tremble. It is a thing of beauty. 

I was a little surprised that there was a conviction.  While I do find it likely that he was behind the murder, I honestly don’t think there was very strong evidence against him, especially once the alleged shooter recanted. 

A picture of him playing basketball in high school…big deal!  His daughter testifying that he wasn’t all bundles of love really doesn’t prove anything.  Being an ass and being a murder are two different things.

[RedheadZombie]

So my DVR recorded two hours of "Inferno".  I watched the first, an episode from 2015 about a wildfire in California, only to find that the second hour was the exact same episode as the first!

Urgent questions for anyone who knows:

Did the teenaged girl who prioritized dresses above all else live?  Or was it the middle daughter who was a rebel?  Clearly one of them died since only the "responsible" son was ever shown.

Did the ranchers abandon the potbellied pigs to death because the rancher's wife wasn't a pig person?  Did their horses, including her favorite - saved from Canada Clydesdale - make it?  They ended up turning them loose to deal with nature on their own.  In the preview, rancher's wife talked about being in danger - with toddler in the car, cats in the backseat, and dogs in the trunk - did they all survive?  Did the husband and friend make it?  How about the bird?

Was anyone convicted for the obvious arson?

[Hava]

I just watched a rerun of an episode regarding Pepper Smith/Rhonda Christie. Does anyone know about this story? Everything was just so bizarre and unbelievable. 

So Rhonda knew at a young age that she was kidnapped. Did she ever go to the police and say that was a missing person?

[One Tough Cookie]

Dear Keith Morrison

we, your devoted watchers respectfully ask, no DEMAND a  two hour special on our favorite psycho  PAM HUPP-- from her framing Russ Fiera to taking an Alford plea to avoid the Death Penalty.

Come on Keith, enquiring mind have to know

[walnutqueen]

On 9/3/2019 at 7:31 PM, One Tough Cookie said:

Dear Keith Morrison

we, your devoted watchers respectfully ask, no DEMAND a  two hour special on our favorite psycho  PAM HUPP-- from her framing Russ Fiera to taking an Alford plea to avoid the Death Penalty.

Come on Keith, enquiring mind have to know

Yes, please!

[car54]

I am looking forward to the special tonight that Lester Holt is doing all week about going to Angola.    First off I love Lester, but it looks like he did some really good in-depth work--he's been on MSNBC all day today promoting and showing clips.

[saber5055]

21 hours ago, car54 said:

I am looking forward to the special tonight that Lester Holt is doing all week about going to Angola.

I watched and thought it was very good. It left me with no answers to anything, and raised a bunch of new questions in my mind. The hospice segment brought tears to my eyes. Like Lester said, if we can't have forgiveness, at least we can have compassion.

I also paid much attention to the physique of the lifers and other prisoners. No one was much overweight if at all, and the breakfast Lester was served in his cell -- scrambled eggs, grits, biscuits -- looked pretty much the same as the $14.99 breakfast buffet at one of my local casinos. I got a laugh that Lester said he had to eat breakfast to the sound of flushing toilets, like that was so gross. He must not have a bunch of kids/teens at his house.

It was interesting that his bunk was connected to the bunk in the next cell so when that guy rolled over, Lester knew it. My other big takeaway was that Lester has skinny legs.

[Whimsy]

That first episode broke my heart. That inmate, Frank, who died two weeks after they filmed his interview made me cry full fledged tears down my face. Like Lester said, he was a human being. He was so far gone there’s no way he was going to harm anyone anymore. They should’ve let him die in a little bit of comfort.

I was also infuriated at that parole hearing officer that told the prisoner who served 55 years (I sadly forgot his name) that he needed more programs. HOW many more programs can he complete that he hasn’t in 55 years?  I do understand he shot a cop, but first of all he didn’t even know that he was a cop since he was in street clothes.  Secondly, it seems the volatile times they were living in played a big part of the crime. I’m not absolving him of the crime he committed, but I feel 55 years is enough. 

[cooksdelight]

36 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

He must not have a bunch of kids/teens at his house.

I remember several years back he did a short segment about his son leaving home to go to college, Pepperdine University. So no, I don’t think he and his wife have any at home. Unless his wife has some bad habits. LOL

@Whimsy, I couldn’t agree more. I cried also. I cannot imagine being behind bars my entire life with no hope of ever going home.

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, saber5055 said:

also paid much attention to the physique of the lifers and other prisoners. No one was much overweight if at all, and the breakfast Lester was served in his cell -- scrambled eggs, grits, biscuits -- looked pretty much the same as the $14.99 breakfast buffet at one of my local casinos. I got a laugh that Lester said he had to eat breakfast to the sound of flushing toilets, like that was so gross. He must not have a bunch of kids/teens at his house.

Which is something that makes Angola prison unique and part of why it’s studied by prison reform advocates for good and bad. Angola is a working farm so most of the prisoners do a full day of outdoor labor growing and harvesting the food the prisoners eat. This arrangement has come with a lot of criticism as well due to it being seen as just a modern spin on slavery highlighted by the fact that Angola used to be a plantation but is also an argument for providing fresh fruits and vegetables to other prisoners so that decent food isn’t an anomaly in the prison system.

Stupid baseball went long so I only caught 15 minutes of it will have to check it out. 

Edited September 7, 2019 by biakbiak

[saber5055]

2 hours ago, Whimsy said:

That first episode broke my heart. That inmate, Frank, who died two weeks after they filmed his interview made me cry full fledged tears down my face. Like Lester said, he was a human being. He was so far gone there’s no way he was going to harm anyone anymore. They should’ve let him die in a little bit of comfort.

So much this. I needed my Kleenex for that part too.

That segment brought back memories of the Lockerbie bomber who was released in 2009 after serving 8-1/2 years of a life sentence for his part in killing 270 passengers on Pan Am Flight 103. A Scottish judge let him go based on "compassionate reasons." Supposedly the killer had only a few weeks, maybe months, to live. As it turned out, he lived almost three years more in the luxury of his family's Libyan villa after being sent home on a private jet. All kinds of "stuff" hit the fan in Scotland (and the rest of the free world) after that. So bogus. But nothing could be done because some judge made it so.

It angered me that Frank had to die in prison while that creep didn't have to. I'm guessing there are a lot of Franks out there.

[TVbitch]

I didn't see anything wrong with having a working farm. You cannot equate totally innocent slaves held in captivity and forced to do labor to convicted felons working a farm that feeds the prison.  

I find all this stuff so tricky. For compassionate release, do you just let people out who are "no longer a danger"? That does not equate to being reformed or even repentent for what they did. ...does that matter? Who decides?  

[cooksdelight]

2 hours ago, TVbitch said:

I didn't see anything wrong with having a working farm. You cannot equate totally innocent slaves held in captivity and forced to do labor to convicted felons working a farm that feeds the prison.  

I find all this stuff so tricky. For compassionate release, do you just let people out who are "no longer a danger"? That does not equate to being reformed or even repentent for what they did. ...does that matter? Who decides?  

Good questions. I was talking to someone today about the judicial system and how many people question what happens, without being in the courtroom every day.

As part of my work with domestic violence victims, I’m often in civil court, which is a step down from criminal court, or district court. Someone was homeless, had no means to pay for an attorney, and was told by the judge that they could not get a court-appointed attorney in civil matters. I think someone must have spoken to the judge on the defendant’s behalf because later on she informed him that he would have a court-appointed attorney. That was extremely out of the ordinary, but knowing her as I do it wasn’t surprising as she’s very compassionate toward people with addictions. 

Sometimes, prisoners are released by compassionate judges. I think based on their record while incarcerated can sometimes go a long way in showing reform and remorse. But none of us on the outside get to see that.

[JudyObscure]

16 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Which is something that makes Angola prison unique and part of why it’s studied by prison reform advocates for good and bad. Angola is a working farm so most of the prisoners do a full day of outdoor labor growing and harvesting the food the prisoners eat. This arrangement has come with a lot of criticism as well due to it being seen as just a modern spin on slavery highlighted by the fact that Angola used to be a plantation but is also an argument for providing fresh fruits and vegetables to other prisoners so that decent food isn’t an anomaly in the prison system.

The farm work probably explains their fit bodies, too.  I love outdoor work and would so much rather be outside weeding or planting than sitting in a gray, smelly prison all day listening to the clanging noise.

Just the satisfaction of seeing something you've planted grow is a positive thing.  I hate to think some professional outragers would take that away from the prisoners.  I would imagine the worst part of slavery was never the work, farmers across the country did the same work -- it was the excessive hours of the work,  separation of families, cruel physical punishments and most of all the lack of freedom and agency over their own lives that made it so horrible. 

Plus what @TVbitch said about innocence.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I found a follow up article about Pepper Smith, from a British tabloid from 2013.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2258437/Pepper-Smith-The-utterly-inspirational-story-woman-kidnapped-toddler-40-YEARS-ago.html

I bet she's right that the first adoptive mother lied about a lot of things, and was more involved that she admitted.     Pepper did tell a judge her story as a teen (arrested for a minor crime), and the judge didn't believe her.    If Pepper wouldn't have agreed to have another woman adopt her to get a birth certificate, and a legal presence she might never have found any of the truth.   Then the people at the state office would never have researched and found her birth certificate that was the start of finding out her real history.

Edited September 8, 2019 by CrazyInAlabama

[saber5055]

18 hours ago, TVbitch said:

I didn't see anything wrong with having a working farm. You cannot equate totally innocent slaves held in captivity and forced to do labor to convicted felons working a farm that feeds the prison.  

I was fine with Angola being a working farm, and if that's compared to slavery, then so are prisoners working in the laundry, making license plates (do they still do that?) or any other manual labor. The show made the point most of the inmates are black, hence the slavery thing. I guess if it's white guys picking carrots, then it's okay.

Plus didn't one fellow say he got paid two cents per hour for his work? Slaves didn't get paid. You can laugh at two cents an hour, but maybe candy bars there cost five cents. Hey, I remember nickel candy bars and I've never been to jail.

18 hours ago, TVbitch said:

I find all this stuff so tricky. For compassionate release, do you just let people out who are "no longer a danger"? That does not equate to being reformed or even repentent for what they did. ...does that matter? Who decides?   

Lester sort of addressed this too when he said who can you trust is telling the truth and who is giving you a line of BS that they are reformed or repentant for what they did. That's the problem with humans ... you can't trust them.

I expect if someone murdered my loved one, I would never want that person to go free. But maybe not, because one never knows how he/she would react until it happens to that person. Even me.

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Just the satisfaction of seeing something you've planted grow is a positive thing.

The show did say this was a plus, being able to work outside and grow useful things. I don't know if the show talked about this much or was it just a quick mention, but inmates in different prisons now are training dogs for different disciplines such as therapy work, scent detection, handicapped assistance.

There also are prisons, most in the west, where inmates gentle and train mustangs that are then sold in a yearly auction. That's a win-win, the inmates learn a skill, bond with their horse, then the horses are given a second chance on life instead of ending up in a dog-food can. All inmates in these programs say how working with a trusting animal, something they can trust back, is rewarding and healing.

On the down side, Lester's next-cell neighbor gets out of his cell one hour per day, and hasn't been outside in, what, four years? So all is not bright and shiny there.

As I posted above, this show left me with questions that have no answers.

@cooksdelight, thank you for your insight into some workings of the court system. It is always informative.

[saber5055]

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

The farm work probably explains their fit bodies, too.

I did see some guys in the background, in the yard outside, doing push ups. So these guys exercise too. Unlike the fatties in other prisons. Ha ha!

[cooksdelight]

Quote

@COOKSDELIGHT, thank you for your insight into some workings of the court system. It is always informative.

You’re welcome. I’ve learned a lot in the short time I’ve been volunteering to help victims of domestic violence.  Everybody is always so quick to jump on the DA when a case is continued for years, or the judge if they don’t agree with the sentence. Rarely have I seen a judge have prejudice or not follow the law, even if it will piss a lot of people off. There’s a murder case from 2014 that’s not yet come to trial, but the victim’s family has filed a lawsuit for punitive damages. It’s been continued for one year. I’m going to try to find out more about why that happened tomorrow.

I am looking forward to seeing what the alleged killer Dulous has to say tomorrow also in his interview for the Monday night Dateline.

[biakbiak]

8 hours ago, saber5055 said:

You can laugh at two cents an hour, but maybe candy bars there cost five cents. Hey, I remember nickel candy bars and I've never been to jail.

Spoiler alert things aren’t cheaper at the prison stores and tend to be more expensive. And people don’t just buy “luxuries” like a candy bar they often need to buy basic necessities like toothpaste and feminine hygiene products.

There are numerous articles and books exploring the connections between our prison system and slavery. The 13th Amendment specifically allows for slavery for punishment for a crime.

If people are interested but don’t want to read a book or articles on the topic, John Oliver has a good segment on prison labor and cost prisoners incur and the massive amounts of money prisons, which are often run by for profit companies, make off prison labor and prisoners.

Edited September 9, 2019 by biakbiak

[woodscommaelle]

I don’t think Lester needed to stay inside the cell/prison to do this story. But it was very interesting.

Hamilton. I think he was one of the youths who got parole. Very mellow. No change in expression. But he gave a teeny little smile when he was paroled. 🙂

[LizBug]

Things have changed a lot at Angola over the past 25-30 years.  Back then, prisoners did earn $0.04 per hour and now it's $0.02 per hour.  Prisoners were also able to receive "packages from home" (books, shoes, clothes) as long as they contained a receipt for the merchandise enclosed.  

Then, rules were changed so that "home" had to order things from a certain list of retailers (Amazon, JC Penney, hobby suppliers) and have them shipped direct.  Now, clothing and shoes are prison issued and prison approved.  The shoes have part of the sole cut away so it's easier to track an escaping prisoner.

Most of the menu includes the vegetables that are grown there.  There are also "fishing holes" on the grounds.  So, the men can fish and eat what they catch.  

Luxuries ... candy, cigarettes (now banned), cookies ... are purchased either with what the prisoner earns or, more common, money sent from friends and relatives.  Friends and relatives can also order some clothing and foodstuff from Union Supply several times a year.  

There is death row and there is also "the hole" where prisoners are send for infractions of the rules.  And there is also the hobby shop where prisoners can create items that they either give to friends/relatives or sell at the rodeo.  

The rodeo is one weekend in April and four weekends in October.  In addition to the rodeo, there is a large arts/crafts area where prisoners sell paintings, leatherwork, iron work, woodwork items that they made in the hobby shop.  The prison gets a cut of the price; I think it's 30% commission.  This is the one time when you can drive a private car on the prison grounds.  Otherwise, you park in the parking lot and ride in a bus (like Lester) to a meeting place where your prisoner comes to meet you.  

As the prison population ages and limited paroles are granted, I can see a larger hospice area in the future.  IMO, the prisoner (Montgomery) was denied parole because he's the one who filed and won the court case against the Louisiana Prison System.  

Edited September 9, 2019 by DallasGypsy
Edited to add: Yes. License plates are still being made at Angola.

[saber5055]

13 hours ago, woodscommaelle said:

I don’t think Lester needed to stay inside the cell/prison to do this story. But it was very interesting.

I think maybe it gave him some insight into what it would be like to be contained in that cell for years, or life. When I toured Alcatraz, we were given the opportunity to step inside a cell with the door closed if we so chose, just for the experience of being locked in such a small space. We also were able to go inside a solitary cell, which had no windows or lights, then the door was closed so we were in total darkness. Pretty much everyone freaked out except me; it was exactly like my darkroom where I soup film in pitch black. So I would have done okay in solitary. Everyone else ... not so much.

Lester sure was writing a lot in his journal. I wonder if he journals every day. I imagine it will make a great book some day.