All Episodes Discussion

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Just attention, I guess.  I'm shocked when an eyewitness helps compile a sketch and it comes out right! 

I don’t think I could do that with my family and closest friends! 

[iMonrey]

OMG, Sunday's episode "Into the Night." Why a psycho, and poor Aundreah, if she manages to live free of psychological damage from that whole ordeal I don't know how. As if it wasn't bad enough her parents saddled her with a name people will mispronounce every time they read it.

Can't believe the guy's wife was never charged with anything, she seemed sketchy to me.

I don't want to start a thing, but why is it so many serial killers turn out to be heavily active in their church community? How many times have we heard neighbors and friends say "they were such nice people, they went to church every Sunday." Just saying.

[12catcrazy]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I don't want to start a thing, but why is it so many serial killers turn out to be heavily active in their church community? How many times have we heard neighbors and friends say "they were such nice people, they went to church every Sunday." Just saying.

I guess the Devil made them do it...

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I don't want to start a thing, but why is it so many serial killers turn out to be heavily active in their church community? How many times have we heard neighbors and friends say "they were such nice people, they went to church every Sunday." Just saying.

I think it's just one of those things people say while never saying the opposite so it stands out as a correlation.  No one ever says, "He seemed like a nice person, he never went to church." 

It's where you get stigma from things like the news always reporting that, "The killer had schizophrenia," while never reporting that, "The killer had heart disease., "  or any other disease.

[Irlandesa]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I don't want to start a thing, but why is it so many serial killers turn out to be heavily active in their church community? How many times have we heard neighbors and friends say "they were such nice people, they went to church every Sunday." Just saying.

In addition to what others have said---it could be that a lot of people attend church.  And because of the stereotype/theory/belief that churchgoing=good, whether that's true or not, church provides cover.

[cooksdelight]

Geez, they are revisiting or rerunning the story about the lingerie-loving military officer in Canada who killed two women. Once they mentioned the town of Tweed, I knew I was hoodwinked into watching something I already knew about. 

[TVbitch]

Regarding Fridays episode which I guess was new, it really made the Tucson police department look lame. I can't believe they couldn't get that guy sooner, and almost didn't get him at all except the wife grew a conscience (once she became the ex-wife of course) 10 years later.

Also not impressed with his firehouse pals who thought it was hilarious to call him "killer" and "cold case." Wish they would have gone back to them after he was convicted to see if they still found it so amusing. 

[Melina22]

2 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

Geez, they are revisiting or rerunning the story about the lingerie-loving military officer in Canada who killed two women. Once they mentioned the town of Tweed, I knew I was hoodwinked into watching something I already knew about. 

This is one of the most shocking stories we've ever had in Canada. I'm amazed it hasn't been fictionalized yet, although I'm not sure anyone would believe it. I'll probably watch it because the case is so unique and riveting, although I don't want any more details about the actual murderers. They were just too disturbing. 

[cooksdelight]

1 hour ago, Melina22 said:

I'm amazed it hasn't been fictionalized yet

It was made into a movie here in the US.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2223824/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_54

[UsernameFatigue]

2 hours ago, Melina22 said:

This is one of the most shocking stories we've ever had in Canada. I'm amazed it hasn't been fictionalized yet, although I'm not sure anyone would believe it. I'll probably watch it because the case is so unique and riveting, although I don't want any more details about the actual murderers. They were just too disturbing. 

I ended up watching the episode again, as it is one that hits close to home. Jessica's mom and I grew up in the same hometown, close to Tweed. Roxanne is a few years older than me, but our brothers were friends. I haven't lived there since the late 70s, (in fact live across the country) and first heard of Jessica's disappearance when friends from my hometown posted her missing posters on Facebook. It seems like yesterday, and is just as shocking and horrific today as it was almost a decade ago. 

Edited May 26, 2019 by UsernameFatigue

[walnutqueen]

The pictures of Russell Williams in lingerie never fail to give me a case of the serious creeps.  For some reason, I find them just as disturbing as any gruesome crime scene photos.

[car54]

This crime was new to me and the victims coming home and gradually realizing someone had been in their house creeped me out---I'm not easily spooked but our family was robbed once while we were away from home and I can remember how frightening it was to come in and when you'd open a cabinet or drawer, finding things gone or moved around.

I can't believe the guy went on for so long and accumulated so much evidence without anyone noticing.

[Ohmo]

12 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Regarding Fridays episode which I guess was new,

I don't think it was new, even though that's what was posted.  Or maybe 48 Hours did it, but I'd seen something about this case before.  I watched this thinking there was going to be an update, but nope.

[Melina22]

19 minutes ago, car54 said:

 I can't believe the guy went on for so long and accumulated so much evidence without anyone noticing.

He was unique. He didn't fit the profile of your typical psychopath or serial killer. 

It's astonishing to watch his final interview. It's nothing like you see in movies. 

[mythoughtis]

1 hour ago, Ohmo said:

I don't think it was new, even though that's what was posted.  Or maybe 48 Hours did it, but I'd seen something about this case before.  I watched this thinking there was going to be an update, but nope.

I had too.  I really don’t know why all the true crime shows have to do the exact same cases.  There is plenty of cases that surely they could go find some other ones to cover. 

[EtheltoTillie]

On 5/26/2019 at 11:38 AM, mythoughtis said:

I had too.  I really don’t know why all the true crime shows have to do the exact same cases.  There is plenty of cases that surely they could go find some other ones to cover. 

I pretty much only watch Dateline.  I think this was another of those repeats where they call it new.  I was watching this and slowly realizing I had seen it before. 

Edited May 27, 2019 by GussieK

[biakbiak]

17 minutes ago, GussieK said:

I pretty much only watch Dateline.  I think this was another of those repeats where they call it new.  I was watching this and slowly realizing I had seen it before. 

My channel guide listed it as a repeat like most of the Saturday episodes.

[EtheltoTillie]

I fast forwarded to the end.  I can't find any of the old postings, but I remember someone (or I did) commenting on those firefighter mustaches.  Also, so sad that the daughter still thinks her father is innocent.  She was only a little girl at the time of the killings.

[TVbitch]

The only good thing about getting older is I can watch some of the Dateline reruns and not remember that I've seen them before. 

[jabinlbc]

I think I might have posted this before, but a friend of mine works for a US-based company that does business with the Canadian Air Force.  A while back she actually had traveled to Russell Williams' base for meetings with him, and had even gone to a group dinner with him.  How creepy is that!

[ButterQueen]

On 5/25/2019 at 9:47 PM, cooksdelight said:

Geez, they are revisiting or rerunning the story about the lingerie-loving military officer in Canada who killed two women. Once they mentioned the town of Tweed, I knew I was hoodwinked into watching something I already knew about. 

I have been waiting a year for this rerun.  My DH missed it originally.  Keith tells it so well.

[walnutqueen]

7 hours ago, ButterQueen said:

I have been waiting a year for this rerun.  My DH missed it originally.  Keith tells it so well.

It is an all time classic episode.  And Keith tells every story so well, but this one, especially so.

[LittleIggy]

May 31 episode: I would love to know what the perp’s motive was. Please get rid of that blonde correspondent. She is awful.

[biakbiak]

Fun fact Kelly Ripa was a dancer in the show Dancin on Air!

[cooksdelight]

6 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

May 31 episode: I would love to know what the perp’s motive was. Please get rid of that blonde correspondent. She is awful.

Andrea Canning is my least favorite of anyone who hosts an investigative reporting show. Her uptalking drives me nuts. Probably why I have no clue what this show was about last night.

[iMonrey]

Thank goodness this was just a one-hour episode because they spent the bulk of it on red herrings and ultimately the murderer turned out to be someone they hadn't mentioned but was seemingly known to all of the victim's friends. It felt like a narrative cheat. It would have been more interesting if they had mentioned this guy, maybe not as a suspect but just to establish him so when they circled back to him it would have been more of a shocker than a head-scratcher. 

[LakeGal]

We watched this and the victim's friends kind of annoyed us.  Not as much as Andrea Canning, but then that is a given.  I can't believe none of the friends ever considered the DJ when they were told the killer was part Latino.  Were there really that many Latino men in their area?  

The friends chasing a guy that was hiding in the bushes was crazy.  Were they trying to get killed?  It was stated early that the women liked to go to the clubs and stand out and be noticed.  The victim was said to be the type that told guys she was not interested in to get lost.  That is not the smartest thing to do.  Did it never occur to them that maybe they would upset the wrong guy.  Then he would wait outside and want to get even.  Crazy guys don't like to be embarrassed in public by women that think they are better than them.

We laughed every time they showed the photo of Dagger on his motorcycle.  The friends said the victim didn't like to talk about Dagger.  My guess was that she knew he was married and did not think her friends would approve.  So she never told them.  

The killer's former wife must really spend a lot of time thinking back to who she was living with.  That would creep me out to find I was involved with a killer/rapist.   

[LittleIggy]

Why should a woman have to be afraid to tell a guy to get lost?

[LakeGal]

21 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

Why should a woman have to be afraid to tell a guy to get lost?

In a perfect world she shouldn't.  But there are crazy guys out there.  Better to try and be polite when turning a guy down.  The friends made it sound like the victim was very blunt.  

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, LakeGal said:

can't believe none of the friends ever considered the DJ when they were told the killer was part Latino.  Were there really that many Latino men in their area?  

It was 25 years later and they probably didn’t know the partial ethnicity of a DJ they hadn’t  met at the time.

Edited June 1, 2019 by biakbiak

[TVbitch]

I'm only able to make it through Canning episodes by watching for those precious moments when I really despise her, like:

Cop: The DNA wasn't a match.

Andrea (in her best valley girl voice): OMG! So frustrating!! 

Cop: I know! Right?! (Just kidding, cop was deadpan.)

And when one of the friends is crying: "It's upsetting you right now, isn't it?" No shit, Sherlock. Her powers of journalistic observation are unmatched.

I don't think those DNA composits looked anything like Andrea or the killer. 

[biakbiak]

Just now, TVbitch said:

I don't think those DNA composits looked anything like Andrea or the killer. 

Seriously, they both basically looked like generic SIMS characters.

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, LakeGal said:

The friends chasing a guy that was hiding in the bushes was crazy.  Were they trying to get killed?  It was stated early that the women liked to go to the clubs and stand out and be noticed.  The victim was said to be the type that told guys she was not interested in to get lost.  That is not the smartest thing to do.  Did it never occur to them that maybe they would upset the wrong guy.  Then he would wait outside and want to get even.  Crazy guys don't like to be embarrassed in public by women that think they are better than them.

I agree with this so much.  There's so much silly "girl-power" display going on these days. It's just the female version of the macho guys like "Dagger" who have to have a motorcycle and a cool, scary name. As though it's more important to have your girlfriends high five you and say, "You go girl!" than to live life sensibly.  If they had caught that guy in the bushes he could well have stabbed one or more of them.  In fact if they had called the police instead, they might have actually caught the guy.  As for the victim telling guys to get lost, that's not only a dangerous way to talk to a stranger, it shows a real lack of kindness.  There's no reason to publically humiliate someone just because you don't find him attractive.

Now, for the police totally disregarding the person who said they had seen a different make of car.  Hmmm.  Now that sounds suspiciously like disregarding an eye witness because she (I'm guessing she) doesn't sound as sure of herself as some guy who thinks he has a perfect eye for car makes.

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

There's so much silly "girl-power" display going on these days. 

That happened in 1992. It didn’t sound that silly they came out yelling at him and he ran away and went a half a block they were in a group and he clearly was worried/afraid of them.

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

Now that sounds suspiciously like disregarding an eye witness because she (I'm guessing she) doesn't sound as sure of herself as some guy who thinks he has a perfect eye for car makes.

The only gender they revealed of the witnesses was a woman who was the car they went with not the other one.

Edited June 1, 2019 by biakbiak

[biakbiak]

45 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

As for the victim telling guys to get lost, that's not only a dangerous way to talk to a stranger, it shows a real lack of kindness.  There's no reason to publically humiliate someone just because you don't find him attractive.

Telling someone you are not interested them is not rude. They said she was direct not that she told them that they were unattractive. Women don’t need to go out of their way to talk to men who have come up to them without invitation and forced a conversation. 

Edited June 1, 2019 by biakbiak

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

Women don’t need to go out of their way to talk to men who have come up to them without invitation and forced a conversation. 

No one's suggesting she talk to them, dance with them or anything else.  We're suggesting she says something like, sorry,  she just wants to hang with her friends or, no thanks, she's too tired to dance.  Just something nice and face saving for the guy.  Her friend said, "She had no problem telling them hit the road, I'm not interested."  Which is okay but could be nicer.

1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

The only gender they revealed of the witnesses was a woman who was the car they went with not the other one.

Yes, I did say I was guessing.  I've had detectives disregard my evidence because I just didn't seem knowledgeable  to them, so I know it does happen.

Edited June 1, 2019 by JudyObscure

[biakbiak]

7 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Her friends did say she didn't hesitate to tell them to get lost.  I call "get lost," rude.

I take that as a turn of phrase not a literal quote. 

[JudyObscure]

Just now, biakbiak said:

I take that as a turn of phrase not a literal quote

I just went back and checked (not fast enough) and corrected myself.  The friend said she had no problem telling them to hit the road.  Later on in the show Andrea asks someone if her manner might have made some guy angry and they didn't seem to find that unlikely.

[LittleIggy]

4 hours ago, LakeGal said:

In a perfect world she shouldn't.  But there are crazy guys out there.  Better to try and be polite when turning a guy down.  The friends made it sound like the victim was very blunt.  

Frankly, we don’t know what she said. Whatever it was didn’t merit death.

[biakbiak]

5 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I just went back and checked (not fast enough) and corrected myself.  The friend said she had no problem telling them to hit the road.  Later on in the show Andrea asks someone if her manner might have made some guy angry and they didn't seem to find that unlikely.

Having guys get angry even when you say something like I am just interested in hanging out with my friends/have a boyfriend is something that has happened to me and my friends often enough that I don’t take into account what makes guys angry when being turned down as a reflection of the person who did the turning down. To my recollection they also didn’t say that they were angry just that they were noncommittal about remembering their reaction.

Edited June 1, 2019 by biakbiak

[JudyObscure]

7 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

a reflection of the person who did the turning down

Nobody is blaming the victim here. Nothing she said meant she deserved anything at all bad to happen to her, much less be murdered.  The man in question is doing life in prison as  he  well deserves. 

What we're talking about is risky vs safer behavior.  No one should have to lock their doors at night.  People who don't lock their doors don't deserve to be robbed. People sometimes forget to lock their doors.  People can lock their doors and still be robbed.   Not locking their door is not a reflection on the person. 

I would still advise people to lock their doors. and I would still advise  women in clubs to be careful how they turn down men.  That is all.

[biakbiak]

2 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

What we're talking about is risky vs safer behavior

We have no idea how they met or even if they had a conversation before he raped and murdered or if she turned him down. We don’t know if she left the door unlocked she seemed to be leaving her house when he attacked her. So in this case her only behavior was leaving the house when a man she may never have met attacked her.

[Melina22]

I finally watched the Dateline I PVRd about Russell Williams. I was putting it off because although I find the case fascinating, I also find it so disturbing. I hate looking at the photos of the women he murdered, who were both so beautiful (not that that matters, I know) and I dreaded seeing the horrible, creepy photos again of him in ladies underwear. And the creepy message on the computer! And the meticulously catalogued underwear. How is this not part of a bad slasher movie? 

Once again, I found the footage of his interview to be one of the most astonishing, inexplicable things I've ever seen on TV. And I still have so many questions. How could anyone possibly live such a totally double life, where their close family, friends, and co-workers completely respected them and thought they were great? Yet he was filmed laughing and joking, totally relaxed, the same day his latest victim was dead in his garage. 

How could someone be so cold-blooded and apparently psychopathic, yet their biggest concern when caught is that it will hurt their wife? 

How on earth did that detective manage to calmly interrogate him for about 6 hours, and then show zero excitement or fist-pumping when out of the blue, Russell admitted his guilt. Wow, that took discipline! 

There were a few new bits of info, such as the fact that his best friend, while hating what he did, is thinking of visiting him, and still thinks of him as a friend. It seems insane, but I feel like his friend is still trying to understand, like so many others. Then again, as Russell himself says during the interrogation, "I don't know why. And the whys don't matter." 

[Blissfool]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Nobody is blaming the victim here. Nothing she said meant she deserved anything at all bad to happen to her, much less be murdered.  The man in question is doing life in prison as  he  well deserves. 

What we're talking about is risky vs safer behavior.  

I actually think your first point on this subject was about kind vs unkind behavior and I totally agree with you. Dating is hard. Going up to someone is hard. Being rejected is humiliating. The "receiver" should try to be gentle when turning someone down, not because of risk of murder, but because kindness. Most people  are just trying to meet you, no need to demoralize them. And, yes, I do think she was rude when rejecting men.  She was with her group of pretty, young, loud friends so she probably felt brave telling them to get lost. Also, her friend would have used different (less brusque) terminology when describing the situation. 

[biakbiak]

28 minutes ago, Blissfool said:

I actually think your first point on this subject was about kind vs unkind behavior and I totally agree with you. Dating is hard. Going up to someone is hard. Being rejected is humiliating. The "receiver" should try to be gentle when turning someone down, not because of risk of murder, but because kindness. Most people  are just trying to meet you, no need to demoralize them. And, yes, I do think she was rude when rejecting men.  She was with her group of pretty, young, loud friends so she probably felt brave telling them to get lost. Also, her friend would have used different (less brusque) terminology when describing the situation. 

I find it problematic when we know nothing about how these men approached her or what she said to them to assume only good intentions on their behalf and negative on her behalf.

[JudyObscure]

58 minutes ago, Blissfool said:

I actually think your first point on this subject was about kind vs unkind behavior and I totally agree with you. Dating is hard. Going up to someone is hard. Being rejected is humiliating. The "receiver" should try to be gentle when turning someone down, not because of risk of murder, but because kindness. Most people  are just trying to meet you, no need to demoralize them. And, yes, I do think she was rude when rejecting men.  She was with her group of pretty, young, loud friends so she probably felt brave telling them to get lost. Also, her friend would have used different (less brusque) terminology when describing the situation. 

Yes, you're right, I was talking about kindness at first and I agree it is kind to give a stranger the benefit of the doubt, assume he means well or might be very sensitive, so turn them down nicely if he doesn't appeal to you. 

I was on another track with the risky behavior part and was answering the question up thread as to why women should have to worry about whether or not a man is dangerous.

------------------------------------------------------------------

@biakbiak

  The locked door thing was simply an analogy of how we might suggest a safety measure ( like locking doors or not making strange men angry) without meaning it as a personal criticism.  There was no unlocked door in the episode.  Locking doors is just something that is commonly believed to be good safety practice.

Edited June 2, 2019 by JudyObscure

[UsernameFatigue]

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Thank goodness this was just a one-hour episode because they spent the bulk of it on red herrings and ultimately the murderer turned out to be someone they hadn't mentioned but was seemingly known to all of the victim's friends. It felt like a narrative cheat. It would have been more interesting if they had mentioned this guy, maybe not as a suspect but just to establish him so when they circled back to him it would have been more of a shocker than a head-scratcher. 

I don't know why they would have had any reason to mention him though. The friends all said that they did not see him the weekend that Christy was murdered. It doesn't sound like he was the DJ at any club they were at, or even in attendance (that they saw) at one. 

I did find it odd that the one friend insisted that the murderer had to have known who she was, years later when he talked to him about DJ-ing at her daughter's wedding. Really? 

How strange that none of her friends knew that her long time boyfriend was married. I could see them not knowing if she had dated him for a year or so, but they said they had been together for several years. Would that not mean that often he would not be spending holidays etc. with her, since he would be with his wife? Also, since he moved hundreds of miles away with his wife, it would appear that he broke up with her, not the other way around. In any case I found the long time married boyfriend the most interesting part of the story.

It is too bad though that, as part of his plea deal, the murderer didn't have to explain the circumstances of what led him to murder Christy. 

[biakbiak]

15 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

murderer had to have known who she was, years later when he talked to him about DJ-ing at her daughter's wedding. Really? 

Yeah I assume the friends were vocal in the news media at the time of her death but it was still 25 years before. They all sort of struck me as finding self importance in the fact that their friend was murdered.

[cooksdelight]

Toni Fratto is one ugly girl. 

And I don’t believe a word coming out of her mouth.

[EtheltoTillie]

11 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Yeah I assume the friends were vocal in the news media at the time of her death but it was still 25 years before. They all sort of struck me as finding self importance in the fact that their friend was murdered.

I actually thought myself that he must have recognized them.   I did not think it was self-importance on their part.  If you had committed a murder and were hiding it for 25 years, you'd probably know all the details from the time, the TV news broadcasts, interviews with friends.  It would stick in your mind who these people were.  He was obviously one cool cucumber.

As for Dagger, yeah, I guessed he was married when they first described the relationship.  I agree, she was probably hiding it from her friends bc she was embarrassed.  She probably had had enough and coincidentally broke up with him about that time.  Then he came looking for her that day--odd.  It was no surprise that she had never brought him around the school.