All Episodes Discussion

[Peanut6711]

  On 3/1/2025 at 5:09 PM, iMonrey said:

The Haunted House Confession: It is safe to say none of the players in this story were the brightest bulbs in the box? Not the sharpest knives in the drawer? 

The show spent approximately 90 minutes chasing down red herrings only to pull the perp out of hat at the eleventh hour and we learned next to nothing about him. IMO the show should have spent more time on Ryan Riggs. We found out he was a psycho and that's it. It might have helped to know where he came from and what his upbringing was and why he was the way he was. It's like the show didn't bother to find out anything about him.

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⬆️ This!  I felt bad for all the red herrings who were paraded on national TV for simply knowing the victim, living near the victim, or helping find the victim.  Unflattering footage of them in moments of grief and shock was unnecessary and a little cruel.  Not only that but playing up that angle of a case can contribute to witnesses not coming forward for fear of being targeted as suspects or their privacy being disregarded in future cases. A simple mention that they were ruled out due to voluntary property search and DNA submission would have suited.  Meanwhile, the disgusting perpetrator Ryan Riggs and his parents who aided and abetted delaying his arrest keep their lives out of the broadcast.  Kudos though to the victim's mother who said she didn't forgive him as opposed to an almost entire church congregation who shielded him and practically absolved him. That's some Kool-Aid drinking bunch right there.  How telling that the asst. pastor was still disturbed by the memory of that Wed. night--the night he had to suppress his natural and rightful instinct of disgust and instead embrace a rapist/murder callously responsible for a fellow parishioner who he practically thought of as a daughter.  At the very least, this church was likely blind and ignorant to some mental health/personality disorder warning signs. Or worse, it helped breed and foster their very own Jason Voorhees. 

As for the police/investigators, what a crew of cowboy hat wearing Barney Fifes.  Except for maybe the guy who actually believed in science/new DNA technology and cared enough to get some justice.  I'm almost surprised there wasn't more dead bodies rotting out there in the Firefly house/property that would make an excellent shooting location for the next horror film. (Somebody alert Rob Zombie).  Till then, maybe hick Barney should ride his horse out there more often, but no he admits on camera he didn't even know the road existed!  The only saving grace in this whole mess (aside from the half-brother who made the perp id) was the local couple who found the victim's intact and still DNA preserved body before it rotted or was eaten by wildlife because they knew of the site as a popular teenage party spot! (So not really an unknown, hard-to-find deserted place after all.) Just imagine all the underage drinking, drug crimes, and possibly sexual assaults happening on Saturday night out there that the police are dense and dumb about. Oh but the church will be sure to bless them on Sunday morning. 

[pdlinda]

  On 3/1/2025 at 6:53 PM, Peanut6711 said:

Just imagine all the underage drinking, drug crimes, and possibly sexual assaults happening on Saturday night out there that the police are dense and dumb about.

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Just a collateral observation, having done criminal defense work for many years (now retired), the dental condition of MANY of the participants led me to believe that serious DRUG USE MAY HAVE contributed to their overall functioning.  

[Medicine Crow]

  On 3/2/2025 at 12:33 AM, pdlinda said:

Just a collateral observation, having done criminal defense work for many years (now retired), the dental condition of MANY of the participants led me to believe that serious DRUG USE MAY HAVE contributed to their overall functioning.  

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Not to mention their less than firm grasp on the English language!!!

[badgerwoman]

I was surprised only one person recognized the person the DNA research created after they went back and found him on observation cameras everywhere.  And all those people knew him!

Kudos to the mother for not forgiving him either.  

[JudyObscure]

The family and friends didn't seem that bad to me.  They were all very poor and that can account for a lot of bad teeth as well as minimal education and bad grammar.  I thought her mother and step-father seemed like nice people. 

The police seemed to be doing the best they could covering a large rural county with not much manpower or money.

Did they say Ryan's parent's had been hiding him from the police?  I had the impression he had just returned to his home on Wednesday to confess to them before going to church to confess.  Most Wednesday night services are very small with just a dozen or so people, so it wasn't like a huge congregation forgave him. 

I can't blame that little church group for trying their best to be forgiving.  They're Christians and Jesus asks his followers to be forgiving.   They did the right thing legally by taking Ryan straight in after the service, so it's not like their forgiveness delayed justice in any way.

I sure don't blame them for not being able to see into the mind of a psychopath. 

[AZChristian]

Many years ago, I saw a program about the early stages of the DNA program that creates a picture of the features of the person whose DNA is being used.  Honestly, when they brought up Ryan's picture it looked identical to what I saw in that program many years ago.  It was striking how similar those pictures were.

Do we all look that much alike???

[Irlandesa]

  On 3/2/2025 at 12:32 PM, badgerwoman said:

I was surprised only one person recognized the person the DNA research created after they went back and found him on observation cameras everywhere.  And all those people knew him!

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Maybe it's just me but I actually agree with those who didn't want to use the technology.  It worked this time, yes, but I think it says something that the guy was all around the funeral but only one person connected the DNA-drafted picture with an actual human being. 

Perhaps I'd feel differently if it was of someone I knew quite well but I only ever see a resemblance, not a "gotchya" pic out of those.  It's very different from the geneology DNA tracking which I do think is worth spending time on.

[JudyObscure]

  On 3/2/2025 at 5:35 PM, Irlandesa said:

It worked this time, yes, but I think it says something that the guy was all around the funeral but only one person connected the DNA-drafted picture with an actual human being. 

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I agree, the eyes and nose were close, but the mouth and jawline were different. 

Add in the long dirty hair which never would be connected to the short business style light brown hair.  I think the brother who recognized Ryan had hated him since the sweet-tea incident and would have been ready to recognize him at the slightest hint.  That won't always happen.

 

[Writing Wrongs]

What I find weird on Dateline is the dumb pop up questions they have. They are usually telling horrific murder stories and then a jaunty little question pops up at the bottom.

Paraphrasing:

Narration: She was murdered on her favorite walking trail.

Pop up question: Do you have a favorite walking trail? @DatelineNBC #Dateline NBC

Weird and inappropriate, I think.

[pdlinda]

  On 3/3/2025 at 8:02 PM, Writing Wrongs said:

Weird and inappropriate, I think.

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I think that Dateline, in general, is chipping away at its budget for this legendary show...the viewer questions in the margins each week seem to have been drafted up by a college intern???  

[Pi237]

Christians are taught to forgive, but I don’t think I could ever forgive someone who hurt, let alone violently murdered, my child.  I know there’s the idea that the forgiveness is for you, so you don’t hold hate in your heart and can live on. But, I don’t know how some of these parents are able to do it.  
 

I also wasn’t impressed with the profile image. Just looked like ‘typical random white man serial killer.’ The eyes were on point tho. 

[GiandujaPie]

The DNA picture was just close enough to give them a lead to go on, but it wasn't a slam dunk by any means. It just looked like any other white kid with blue eyes. I may have missed them mentioning this but was there any way the DNA could have predicted the age? 

In any case, it was a good thing they caught this guy early before he had a chance to develop into a full-blown serial killer. He said he had the evil in him and so he killed Chantay and got it out of his system, but how long before the urge came bubbling up again? I've seen enough L&O and Criminal Minds to know that this likely what would have happened. 

[Writing Wrongs]

The part I started to tear up at was him telling the chihuahua drowning story. Evil bastard.

[iMonrey]

  On 3/3/2025 at 8:57 PM, pdlinda said:

I think that Dateline, in general, is chipping away at its budget for this legendary show...the viewer questions in the margins each week seem to have been drafted up by a college intern???  

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Those are meant to promote Twitter discussions, it even says "join the discussion on X" or whatever, and they've been doing it for years. But it's SO STUPID. It's like the show doesn't think we'll know what to talk about unless it suggests topics. And I would be money they are generated by AI.

[iMonrey]

Ugh, Lori Vallow again. As if I haven't seen this story enough. I don't see what interviewing the woman accomplishes, other than demonstrating she's batshit insane. Like I already didn't know that. Talk about a freak show, it felt very exploitative.

[Irlandesa]

It saved me two hours so at least there's that about the Vallow.

[TVbitch]

Yeah, not giving that psychopath any more of my time. I'm sure Keith had to take the opportunity, but I bet he needed a Silkwood shower afterwards. 

[JudyObscure]

I had to watch the Lori Vallow show.  Dateline knew we would be hate watching and rewarded us with dark lighting that made Lori look haggard and greasy, downright ugly at times.  For Lori I expect that's much more upsetting than the life-without-parole thing. 

After all, that won't matter in the near future when the End Times arrive and she and Chad get to be the Supreme Leaders.  My church  teaches that Jesus will be the leader, but then my church teaches that murder is worse than divorce, so who knows.

It was fun seeing her try to flirt with Keith and hit a wall. 

[Ellee]

I watched a total of 6 minutes.

The wink to the camera when walking in …. unbelievable.   Almost shut the tv off there  

Loved that she was in prison orange. Loved, loved that she was required to keep wrist and ankle bracelets on at all times. 

Loved that all the while ‘she thought’ that she was all that and a bag of chips the camera showed what an ugly haggard woman she really is.  Her body language openly displayed that there was nothing to see or hear here that would resemble the truth. 

It hurt to see those two kids again. And I believe there was another ex-husband that should have been listed on her victims list.  
 

 

 

 

[Pi237]

Disgusting that she blamed Tylee for killing JJ. She was alternately flirty and combative with Ken. Answering questions with questions.  She’s not as crazy as she’s playing. Sane enough to target everyone’s life insurance. Jesus wants me to have that money. Lmao she didn’t say that, but I could see her saying it. 

You can tell she spent her whole life giggling and flipping that hair at people, blinking her blue eyes  coquettishly  ‘who, me!?’ to get out of any trouble she ever found herself in. Looking rough there, Lori.  Don’t think that routine will work much longer.

And when is that niece of hers going to get arrested for conspiracy of attempted murder of her ex husband? Another one who played her looks to get out of any responsibilities. She already has a new mark aka husband standing by her side. He better sleep with one eye open. 
 

 

Edited Saturday at 10:17 PM by Pi237

[Ohmo]

IMO, both Keith and Dateline should have ended the interview after about 10 minutes when it was clear Lori was just doing it to seek attention.  Keith even alluded to that, and I thought "So why are you giving her a platform?"  Walking out of the interview would have pissed her off.  What she said about Tylee was disgusting.

Arizona shouldn't waste its time either.  She now is acting as her own attorney, which means more spewing of her crap.  Arizona should simply tell Idaho.  "Yeah, we're sure she killed Charles, but you've already got her where she belongs for the rest of her life.  Through away the key, and don't waste another second on her."

The next time any reporting is done about Lori Vallow should be when she's found dead in prison, either from natural or unnatural causes.

[JudyObscure]

  On 3/8/2025 at 10:17 PM, Pi237 said:

Jesus wants me to have that money. Lmao she didn’t say that, but I could see her saying it. 

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Oh, I'm sure she believes that.  When she said that she has always wanted a bumper sticker saying, "Jesus loves you...but I'm his favorite."  She pretended to be joking, but you know she really feels that way.  There is something so horrifically blasphemous about most of her blather that I find it deeply offensive.

[Ellee]

What did she say about Tylee?  It was Tylee’s father wasn’t it (that she was accused of killing that wasn’t named)?  

Acting as her own  attorney?  Regarding Charles Vallow’s death?  

Ok … I was raised with the ‘if you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all’ rule but …. I break it frequently on this site.   My immediate thought is … let’s get the greatest, strongest legal minds together to prosecute, a no-nonsense judge and go one on one with her.  Hold her to strict legal protocol.  Don’t know much about the legal process but her usual shenanigans won’t do anything but bury her further — emphasis on ‘bury her’.   

Also might I suggest her wardrobe consist of her prison orange garb along with required handcuffs and ankle chains. The perfect accessories. 

 

[DanaK]

  On 3/9/2025 at 1:25 AM, Ohmo said:

IMO, both Keith and Dateline should have ended the interview after about 10 minutes when it was clear Lori was just doing it to seek attention.  Keith even alluded to that, and I thought "So why are you giving her a platform?"  Walking out of the interview would have pissed her off.  What she said about Tylee was disgusting.

Arizona shouldn't waste its time either.  She now is acting as her own attorney, which means more spewing of her crap.  Arizona should simply tell Idaho.  "Yeah, we're sure she killed Charles, but you've already got her where she belongs for the rest of her life.  Through away the key, and don't waste another second on her."

The next time any reporting is done about Lori Vallow should be when she's found dead in prison, either from natural or unnatural causes.

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I forget where (perhaps online) but I saw an excerpt of the interview and boy Lori comes across as both nuts and not taking any of it seriously, with the latter being pretty disgusting given everything she did to her kids or allowed to happen and the other murders, plus the cult behavior and wacky beliefs

[badgerwoman]

The only time I want to hear about Lori or Chad again is when they show up in the obituaries.

[Ohmo]

  On 3/9/2025 at 2:20 PM, Ellee said:

What did she say about Tylee?

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That Tylee suffocated JJ.  We and Keith know that's not true because Tylee died before JJ, but even to hear Lori make the claim was disgusting.

I typically have no issues with Keith, but he's a journalist of some standing.  I know he didn't buy any of her shit, but he still sat there for 90 minutes and entertained her shit.  This interview was a strike on Keith Morrison's Dateline career, in my opinion.  There was no substance from Lori.  That was obvious within the first 9 minutes.  His butt should have been walking out the door.

ETA:

  Quote

There is something so horrifically blasphemous about most of her blather that I find it deeply offensive.

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I'm not deeply religious, but I think it would be offensive to anyone who devoutly follows any religion to hear Lori talk about religion in this flippant manner.

Edited Sunday at 07:55 PM by Ohmo

[Ellee]

  On 3/9/2025 at 7:47 PM, Ohmo said:

That Tylee suffocated JJ.  We and Keith know that's not true because Tylee died before JJ, but even to hear Lori make the claim was disgusting.

I typically have no issues with Keith, but he's a journalist of some standing.  I know he didn't buy any of her shit, but he still sat there for 90 minutes and entertained her shit.  This interview was a strike on Keith Morrison's Dateline career, in my opinion.  There was no substance from Lori.  That was obvious within the first 9 minutes.  His butt should have been walking out the door.

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SHE SAID THAT??!!??

I may have to watch the whole episode.  Was it her just spewing shit out the entire time?  
 

I wonder if they continued taping Keith after filming.  It’d be interesting to hear what he says about it.

 

ETA. Me being me I will have to watch it now.  

Edited Sunday at 08:11 PM by Ellee

[Realitystarr]

I love me some  Keith Morrison but he was weak in effective in this  interview letting her ramble with her lies and her over confidence in manipulating men.

I could'nt  help but think it would have been more interesting to have Andrea Canning on this one in one of her inappropriate micro short dresses and  perfect hair and makeup.

UPDATE:  I watched  Nate Eaton's interview with Keith and he seemed smitten with her. He even said he enjoyed her despite knowing what she did to her kids and all her husbands etc.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 08:31 PM by Realitystarr

[Ellee]

  On 3/9/2025 at 8:13 PM, Realitystarr said:

 

UPDATE:  I watched  Nate Eaton's interview with Keith and he seemed smitten with her. He even said he enjoyed her despite knowing what she did to her kids and all her husbands etc.

 

 

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Thank you for posting this as I won’t watch the entire episode now … ‘he enjoyed her despite what she did …

Seriously?

[Realitystarr]

Here's the link to the  Eaton /Keith interview --

 

[Pi237]

Lori said Tylee accidentally killed JJ by holding him down to get him to calm down. Then, she killed herself out of remorse afterwards.  As believable as her saying the rings she bought and used to marry Chad were bought for and ‘borrowed’ from her brother and his new wife.  
 

And Keith ‘enjoyed her?!’ God, men are so easy. She probably insisted her interviewer be a man. 

Edited Sunday at 09:39 PM by Pi237
Autocorrect hates me

[pdlinda]

  On 3/9/2025 at 1:25 AM, Ohmo said:

The next time any reporting is done about Lori Vallow should be when she's found dead in prison, either from natural or unnatural causes.

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I would agree with the "unnatural" speculation.  I worked in criminal defense for many years, and I can say, WITH THE UTMOST DEGREE OF CERTAINTY that once Lori lands in prison, her crimes against her children will result in her life being in extreme jeopardy by other inmates.  Prisoners have a "code of conduct" where criminal behavior is concerned.  Killing CHILDREN is absolutely condemned and looked upon as INEXCUSABLE (especially with a "special needs" child). 

That's in every prison in every state. 

When she arrives in Idaho,after extradition from AZ, she'll probably be placed in PC(protective custody) confinement that keeps her isolated from GP (general population) because she has a HIGH PROFILE CASE.  However, it's more expensive to keep an inmate at this level of custody SO EVENTUALLY, (if she behaves) she'll be placed in GP. 

PC custody usually involves 23 hrs a day solitary confinement with 1 hr out to walk around a fenced cage alone.  One shower a week.  If, and when, she hits GP, no matter when that may be, her problems will definitely surface and she'll have to be aware of her physical safety each and every day.

My belief is that she was brought back to AZ because the VICTIMS of the crimes she being tried for here wanted legal consequences for their loved ones. 

Apparently, our County Atty, Rachel Mitchell, chose to go through the expense of devoting resources and attorney time in part, to be sensitive to the family's wishes.

Insofar as Lori "representing herself" I'm not sure if the parties agreed to a bench trial (where there's no jury and the Judge decides her fate) but I hope so because, IMO, it will speed things up and the public won't be inconvenienced to the extent of seeing and hearing her expected "histrionics".  

I was on two juries (very surprised I was picked, but I was) and I can say it is a daily grind to sit and listen to testimony and then render a verdict.  It's a very demanding responsibility that, especially in a murder case) takes a heavy toll physically and emotionally.

Edited Tuesday at 01:55 AM by pdlinda