S08.E05: Goat

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

Jazz and Yash conclude their first date but land on different pages; Jazz hopes attending a queer speed dating event with Jaclyn will lighten the blow; Jazz starts to doubt her commitment to Harvard, but telling her parents is another story.

Original air date 2023.02.21

[gingerella]

Sooo...more of the same then?

[SunnyBeBe]

I’m just confused why picking out your classes is such a horrible thing and what college does Jazz think you don’t have to do this?  Picking your classes is a treat. Some are required classes and you don’t have a choice, but others can be fun to explore.  I really don’t get her sometimes.  And, the friend who said Jazz should talk to her parents about attending Harvard…..no…she’s talked to them enough.  She needs input from some normal people who don’t feed her insecurities.  
 

I wonder what the real reason is that Jazz doesn’t want to continue at Harvard.  Is she just lazy and doesn’t want to do the work?  She’s definitely smart enough. It sounds like she’s not convinced they have much to offer her.  She seems to be more impressed with herself and how she’s already doing what she wants.  She really does seem clueless.  I wonder if she could earn a good living as an activist, with no degree.  

Edited February 22, 2023 by SunnyBeBe

[princelina]

IMO she's just very immature.  She claims to know what she wants - then she states that what she wants is "happiness" and "fulfillment".  She doesn't understand that those two things are by-products of having goals and/or purposes and doing them.  She claims that there are many paths she can take - but can't name one, other than "not going back to Harvard".  Frankly, if she can't even declare a generic major like business or psychology, she shouldn't be going back to Harvard - she should be going to work in a local bookstore or boutique until she figures out what she wants.  And I'm not saying that to be sarcastic - I think it's true for any kid of her age who doesn't know what they want! College is too expensive to allow it to cause you stress because you don't even want to be there.  As for the dating thing - again she's very immature.  She keeps saying things about how "You know I always . . . " - but we don't!  Because other than a televised "boyfriend" whose parents fulfilled the storyline by objecting to him dating a transgirl, and a televised "date" with a girl, that went nowhere, she hasn't really dated.  So she doesn't "always" do anything.  I thought the speed-dating thing was good for her, even if it was a televised event, because at least she was just meeting people briefly and having to chat, rather than faking a whole "date" for the cameras.  It's like she got a few glimpses of actual reality, for a change!

[Meow Mix]

OK, maybe I'm paranoid, but I would never drink something that someone I barely know ordered for me and had ready before I got there.  I understand that there is no danger to Jazz because she has a film crew tagging along, but to show that without comment was very irresponsible on the part of the producers.  

I think Jazz has unrealistic expectations for life in general.  The minute something gets challenging and she doesn't have success, she is ready to quit because she has to have happiness every minute.  She needs to talk to some people who are not trying to be on TV about what real life is like.  You can enjoy your career on the whole, but still have days that you are bored or irritated.  With dating, some instant romantic connection is rare.  From my own experience and that of my friends, lasting relationships don't start like that.  Also, Jazz seems to have little going on in her life besides being trans and doing the TV show.  What does she talk about on a date?  When I was in college, you couldn't shut me up about the courses I was taking or that I decided to learn to play the pipe organ for fun or funny stories about what I and my roommates were up to.  

If she really wants to do advocacy as a career, she needs a college degree.  Her shelf life as youth transgender activist is coming to an end.  She needs to talk with people who actually make their living in advocacy to better understand what she needs in her background to be successful.  It isn't just getting up on a soapbox and calling everyone who doesn't completely agree with you a bigot.  Greg's defense of staying in school was weak sauce - he should have been more blunt with her.  Also, she needs to come up with a plan on her own for what she will do if she quits Harvard.  Just laying around under her blankie and watching TV is not going to cut it.  

[tomorrowgirl]

I enjoyed seeing the goats, but that's about it.

[Joan van Snark]

1 hour ago, Meow Mix said:

If she really wants to do advocacy as a career, she needs a college degree.  Her shelf life as youth transgender activist is coming to an end.

Thank you for more eloquently expressing what I was saying in my post.  What qualifications does she have to be an advocate other than she is trans and has been on a TV show?  If she continues on at Harvard, maybe she'll end up taking a class that really resonates with her and she'll find something she wants to do with her life.  And, as you stated, a degree would give her credibility no matter which career path she chooses.  The girl is just so entitled and lazy.  It's all the parents' fault for catering to her every whim.  I remember when she tried to steamroll her dad into paying for breast implants.  Does she not realize these surgeries cost tons of dough?

Edited February 22, 2023 by Joan van Snark

[maggiegil]

I think in order to be a good advocate/activist you need to be a good debater and willing to see things from the other side. We've seen from previous seasons that Jazz won't do that, she won't critically consider whether youth transition might be harmful she assumes bad motives on behalf of anyone who doesn't agree with her.

I think the best thing for Jazz would be to stay away from advocacy, she doesn't seem stable enough.

Can't believe we had to endure the reality trope of goat yoga, what will it be next those freezing tubes, plate smashing etc.

Isn't having to endure some classes you don't like part of the college experience? Surely if Jazz knew what she liked she would be able to pick a major, maybe doing some classes you don't think you'd like is the way to  discover what you're actually passionate about.

Jeanette's solution to Jazz being spoiled and mollycoddled is to mollycoddle her more.

Jazz's outfits make her look so much bigger. I wish someone would take her in hand and give her a makeover. Similarly are why are Griffin's glasses always halway down his nose, he looks ridiculous.

Its sad that Jazz isn't enjoying Harvard, its such a rare opportunity, you'd wonder would she have enjoyed Pomona more

[Bastet]

I love goats.  My friend emailed me to say "I know you can't stand to watch anymore, but there are goats, so fast forward to that".  Adorable!  And I shouldn't laugh, because Ms. "Weather is threatening to me" obviously has issues, but Jacky standing there under an umbrella because one drop of rain fell cracked me up.

[gingerella]

7 hours ago, Meow Mix said:

OK, maybe I'm paranoid, but I would never drink something that someone I barely know ordered for me and had ready before I got there.  I understand that there is no danger to Jazz because she has a film crew tagging along, but to show that without comment was very irresponsible on the part of the producers.  

I think Jazz has unrealistic expectations for life in general.  The minute something gets challenging and she doesn't have success, she is ready to quit because she has to have happiness every minute.  She needs to talk to some people who are not trying to be on TV about what real life is like.  You can enjoy your career on the whole, but still have days that you are bored or irritated.  With dating, some instant romantic connection is rare.  From my own experience and that of my friends, lasting relationships don't start like that.  Also, Jazz seems to have little going on in her life besides being trans and doing the TV show.  What does she talk about on a date?  When I was in college, you couldn't shut me up about the courses I was taking or that I decided to learn to play the pipe organ for fun or funny stories about what I and my roommates were up to.  

If she really wants to do advocacy as a career, she needs a college degree.  Her shelf life as youth transgender activist is coming to an end.  She needs to talk with people who actually make their living in advocacy to better understand what she needs in her background to be successful.  It isn't just getting up on a soapbox and calling everyone who doesn't completely agree with you a bigot.  Greg's defense of staying in school was weak sauce - he should have been more blunt with her.  Also, she needs to come up with a plan on her own for what she will do if she quits Harvard.  Just laying around under her blankie and watching TV is not going to cut it.  

This entire post is perfection, especially the highlighted portions.

Jazz wouldn't know that about drinking because she is so coddled and socially stunted.

She bails on everything that gets hard, until or unless her family and friends are forced into bailing her out. Like every single stupid 'event' or 'rally' or whatever that's been shown on this series, she always has BIG IDEAS but is too damn lazy and immature to see them through. Then she realized she's going to fail because, yanno, she is all talk and no action, and then she whines and cries until her family bails her out by doing the work for her, so she can then take credit and say 'LOOK AT WHAT I DID.' And nobody calls her out on this shit other than her grandparents.

She has nothing to talk to ANYone about other than herself. It's all Jazz all the time and who the fuck would want to be in a relationship like that? The answer is: nobody who has a healthy self respect for themselves. Only a sycophant and/or a famewhore wannabe would put up with Jazz talking only about her 24/7.

And last but by no means least, you are so right, Jazz has NO clue what being a professional advocate actually means or entails, or what character traits, skills and training/education one needs to make a career out of that. It is not about just shooting down people whom you don't agree with 110%.

She is so entitled, so spoiled, so coddled, and honestly? It's her parents who created this monster. I don't know who can fix her until or unless her parents say enough is enough and start treating her like any other lazy, entitled, slacker kid.

Edited February 23, 2023 by gingerella

[PrincessPurrsALot]

There are majors she could choose that would help her toward her goal of being an activist: government; history; women, gender & sexuality; sociology.  Many people don't know exactly what they want, and there tends to be a bit of a sophomore slump as you figure things out.   She would waste a huge opportunity by leaving.  

Most activists have other jobs and do their activism as unpaid labor.  Some work for agencies.  There is a lot of competition for those positions, so she needs more than her name to build a career.  Ari and Griffen seem to have their lives together.  Sander and Jazz are messy. Jazz has so many more opportunities than others.  It would be nice if she truly appreciated that and took advantage of those opportunities. 

[gingerella]

4 hours ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

She would waste a huge opportunity by leaving. 

Which is why she will likely do exactly that. She wastes every opportunity handed to her. Because she is entitled and lazy. Her parents have taught her that if she bails, she can just sit up in her childhood room, under blankets, and binge eat while doing fuck all with her life.

On 2/21/2023 at 7:32 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

She’s definitely smart enough.

Is she though? Really? Because for all the 'omg Jazz is sooo smart' I have yet to see one smart or quasi intelligent thing she's ever done, like ever, on this show.

ETA: I just watched this episode, man, this family is fucked up. That's all I got folks.

Edited February 23, 2023 by gingerella

[chediavolo]

13 hours ago, Bastet said:

I love goats.  My friend emailed me to say "I know you can't stand to watch anymore, but there are goats, so fast forward to that".  Adorable!  And I shouldn't laugh, because Ms. "Weather is threatening to me" obviously has issues, but Jacky standing there under an umbrella because one drop of rain fell cracked me up.

Well she would melt if she got wet. All that makeup & the wig would puddle. 
And it makes me furious that Jazz would throw away a free ride to Harvard😡. This girl needs serious mental health help.  
She doesn’t know who she is attracted to? I think whoever said she may be asexual is correct. 
I want to know more about Grandma & Grandpa. He seems to dislike his wife. How long was the car ride that he couldn’t even stay awake while they were filming? WHY does grandma look the way she does? Etc. This family, all of them, are totally fucked up. 
Jazz needs to end this show for her own health.  The Indecisiveness, the weight gain, the anxiety, this is all bad stuff. 
Not a big fan of Jaclyn. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by chediavolo

[SunnyBeBe]

While I understand that Jazz has endured negativity and even hatred towards her due to her being transgender, I still don’t think she relates to the realty of real world problems.   I wonder if she’s read about Harvard students who worked their behind off to get there.  There’s one who worked as a janitor to survive in high school, lived in a home with drug addicted parents with no electricity or plumbing?  There’s a famous story about a girl from NC (my state) who did that.   I’ve read similar stories too.  But, Jazz just wants to be happy…...  I could sort of see that kind of talk from a senior who is nearing retirement age, but a young college student?  Idk.  It comes off as odd. Of course we all want to be happy.  It’s all up to her. She has all the tools and resources to do anything she wants, but it escapes her.   If she really can’t see the upside to a degree from Harvard, then I’m not sure she should continue. Of course,  if she drops out, she’ll always be noted for it by her family. She’ll be frowned upon by them for sure.    What would be the worst thing about hanging in there and graduating from Harvard?  I wonder what she would say.  I think she mentioned something about learning things you don’t need.  That sounds like a comment from an uninformed juvenile, not a well read and informed adult. 
 

The reasons I said Jazz was smart enough for Harvard include she was number 1 in her high school class with grades and her SAT scores had to be incredibly high to get into Harvard.  

[Wizardpatch]

If Jazz ends up going the exhibitionist/OnlyFans route her transgender friends are headed, will that finally convince her mom that she made a couple of bad choices? 

[Bastet]

6 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

But, Jazz just wants to be happy…...  I could sort of see that kind of talk from a senior who is nearing retirement age, but a young college student?  Idk.  It comes off as odd.

Part of that yearning is undoubtedly due to her anxiety and depression.  She's been dealing with that for such a long time, and her medications are helping, but she's still got that fundamental feeling of sadness.  I'm the same way.  I'm more functional than she is, but I only have moments of happiness, like from something my cat does.  Just waking up and being happy as a normal state is a distant memory.  She was so young when she was first diagnosed with depression, she may feel like happiness is something she's never truly known, and that's what she wants.

Now, there's also the fact she's lazy as all get out and doesn't want to do the work that would bring her some successes that will make her feel a little differently.  Just like with being overwhelmed by choosing classes and putting it off -- that's both things, too.  She is undeniably lazy, because she knows her parents will swoop in and fix things for her, but anxiety and depression also make choices overwhelming.  Sometimes even the simplest things.  It's just a sad fact that her mental health conditions mean she's going to have to work harder than someone with a typical brain to be a normal, functioning adult.  I don't think she has ever gotten proper therapy, so she doesn't have any tools beyond the medication.

[janey99]

7 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

While I understand that Jazz has endured negativity and even hatred towards her due to her being transgender, I still don’t think she relates to the realty of real world problems.   I wonder if she’s read about Harvard students who worked their behind off to get there.  There’s one who worked as a janitor to survive in high school, lived in a home with drug addicted parents with no electricity or plumbing?  There’s a famous story about a girl from NC (my state) who did that.   I’ve read similar stories too.  But, Jazz just wants to be happy…...  I could sort of see that kind of talk from a senior who is nearing retirement age, but a young college student?  Idk.  It comes off as odd. Of course we all want to be happy.  It’s all up to her. She has all the tools and resources to do anything she wants, but it escapes her.   If she really can’t see the upside to a degree from Harvard, then I’m not sure she should continue. Of course,  if she drops out, she’ll always be noted for it by her family. She’ll be frowned upon by them for sure.    What would be the worst thing about hanging in there and graduating from Harvard?  I wonder what she would say.  I think she mentioned something about learning things you don’t need.  That sounds like a comment from an uninformed juvenile, not a well read and informed adult. 
 

The reasons I said Jazz was smart enough for Harvard include she was number 1 in her high school class with grades and her SAT scores had to be incredibly high to get into Harvard.  

The Ivies let in plenty of people that have mediocre grades and test scores.  Celebrities like Jazz add cache and schools seek them out.

[gingerella]

If Jazz cannot manage to pick her own classes in a timely manner, or do the needful to get into a class - like write an essay on why she wants to take that course, because we all know she will NOT bother to do that - then she has no business taking up a space at Harvard. There are too many other worthy students who've worked their asses off to get in there, and she's taking up a spot.

I think she obviously needs serious therapy, but also needs to be enrolled in community college. She needs to stop with the advocacy and start with working on herself. She just constantly spews bullshit platitudes and things that aren't true, acting like she's this or that, when in fact she has no clue about anything, herself or others. She constantly says shit like, "I don't have that much experience dating women", when from what we've been shown she has ZERO experience, so why intimate she has? She does this with everything. "I'm going to do this or that"...No you're not, because all those 'this and that's' require effort and commitment from YOU, things you do not know about nor have.

[SunnyBeBe]

When you struggle with anxiety, some jobs may be challenging, like being an activist.  Imo, being an attorney is stressful.  I’ve been one a long time and I’ve always found it stressful. I would think that working in the health care field would be too, as well as realtors, journalists, and politics.    Perhaps, there are some types of work that aren’t that way.  I’ve wondered about how it would be to do something less stressful, like painting, selling antiques, jewelry design, or giving facials.  No job is completely stress free.  I get that, but maybe, Jazz should give some thought to going that route, instead on putting herself out in the public where she is often ridiculed.   Oh, do you think that being a reality tv star is stressful?  

[PrincessPurrsALot]

I am trying to imagine how awkward these dates are with a camera crew.  You know they get directions on where to sit, etc. There are probably many retakes.  Y'know, just like dates we go on.  FFS Yash could also not want to date more on camera or date someone who is supposed to be leaving town in a few weeks.

Jazz is a terrible conversationalist.  She talks over people all the time.  Let someone finish a sentence.  

The Harvard conversation drives me crazy.  I am fairly certain that Harvard has all students do a common core curriculum that takes much of the first two years.  At my school (not Harvard, but similar type of school), we had to do a year of math, english, foreign language, different types of sciences, history, . . . . The idea is to get exposure to a broad range of knowledge to help you find what you are interested in.  You also learn how to think analytically and how to write in an academic setting.  Did I enjoy all of the classes?  No.  I never made it through "The History of the Peloponnesian War" and I can confidently say I never will.  However, I gained a lot from exposure to different ideas and people who had different interests and focus.  

If we all took a drink whenever they said Harvard, we would be dead.  They never just say school or college.  It's always Harvard. 

[Quof]

3 hours ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

FFS Yash could also not want to date more on camera or date someone who is supposed to be leaving town in a few weeks.

You're assuming this is an actual date, rather than a response to a casting call.

[BAForever]

On 2/22/2023 at 3:37 PM, maggiegil said:

I think in order to be a good advocate/activist you need to be a good debater and willing to see things from the other side. We've seen from previous seasons that Jazz won't do that, she won't critically consider whether youth transition might be harmful she assumes bad motives on behalf of anyone who doesn't agree with her.

I think the best thing for Jazz would be to stay away from advocacy, she doesn't seem stable enough.

Hadn't really thought of this perspective- Jazz truly doesn't (or can't) see things from other perspectives. Back when Jaclyn was trying to discuss her transition with her gma (I think), Jazz and Jeanette steamrolled the conversation while the gma was truly showing love and concern because she thought Jaclyn was too young to make decisions regarding transition. Sometimes nobody is wrong. Jazz may be too fragile to handle disagreements.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

3 hours ago, BAForever said:

Hadn't really thought of this perspective- Jazz truly doesn't (or can't) see things from other perspectives. Back when Jaclyn was trying to discuss her transition with her gma (I think), Jazz and Jeanette steamrolled the conversation while the gma was truly showing love and concern because she thought Jaclyn was too young to make decisions regarding transition. Sometimes nobody is wrong. Jazz may be too fragile to handle disagreements.

If she stays at Harvard, it is one of the skills she should learn.  She does need to learn to debate.  She also needs to learn to really listen and consider other people's arguments.  While your example is form a few years ago, we haven't seen anything more recently showing that she, or her mother, have gotten better at this. 

[readheaded]

Jazz would benefit from going to college, even if it isn't Harvard, and staying there until her degree is finished. She regresses when she goes home with her parents.

[gingerella]

On 2/23/2023 at 5:15 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

The reasons I said Jazz was smart enough for Harvard include she was number 1 in her high school class with grades and her SAT scores had to be incredibly high to get into Harvard.  

My good friend in high school was 'very smart', she was book smart. But my god, she couldn't figure out how to call 411 and get the number to call the movie theatre and find out what time something was playing. Book smart doesn't account for much outside of school IMO.

Edited February 26, 2023 by gingerella

[maggiegil]

On 2/24/2023 at 4:50 PM, BAForever said:

Hadn't really thought of this perspective- Jazz truly doesn't (or can't) see things from other perspectives. Back when Jaclyn was trying to discuss her transition with her gma (I think), Jazz and Jeanette steamrolled the conversation while the gma was truly showing love and concern because she thought Jaclyn was too young to make decisions regarding transition. Sometimes nobody is wrong. Jazz may be too fragile to handle disagreements.

I might be remembering it wrong but a few months after surgery didn't Jeanette advise Jazz not to mention all the surgery complications she had had to another trans teen who was thinking about bottom surgery. I think if you go into a discussion with a vested interest then you're not coming from an honest place.

Jazz seems to resort to emotions in discussions rather than facts and if you're going up against someone armed with facts you'll struggle to make a difference.

I could see Jazz doing online activism like posting social media stuff like Schuyler Bailar (no idea where the money for that type of activism comes from but I guess lots of LGBT organisations have plenty of money to spare) but I can't see her being able to engage in a discussion with someone with an opposing view like a Ben Shapiro/Matt Walsh type.

 

 

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

On 2/23/2023 at 5:58 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

 Perhaps, there are some types of work that aren’t that way.  I’ve wondered about how it would be to do something less stressful, like painting, selling antiques, jewelry design, or giving facials.  No job is completely stress free.  I get that, but maybe, Jazz should give some thought to going that route, instead on putting herself out in the public where she is often ridiculed.  

Can you imagine getting a facial from Jazz? When I go to get any kind of beauty treatment (massage, pedicure, facial, etc), I just want to sit and DO NOTHING. I cannot fathom Jazz not chatting up the clients about HER issues and HER "advocacy" and HER "(fill in the blank)" stuff.  Plus people who do facials have to go to some kind of vocational program and get licensed. That would require going to school. I'm guessing something as "trivial" as beauty school would be "demeaning" to such a special sparkly snowflake. 

[Craigcodybazhate]

This has been a good show. I watched from season 1. Jazz has shown a lot. Was hoping she got her stuff together. And lost some weight. She’s beautiful. She’s beautiful big thick. But she seems happier when she’s shedding weight. Didn’t like to see her hiding food in her room. That’s a sign of insecurity and some other things. 
 

she needs a man to tell her he will protect her. Fuck all the haters be who she is. They are just cowards. Someone that will be proud to be out with her. 
 

Her brothers are so cool. Sanders great guy. Totally accepting. And I think he learned some stuff about himself seeing jazz be in her truth. I just enjoy watching this accepting family. Like the sister Ari. She’s awesome. The whole gang is cool. Super like this season. 
 

didn’t really like last season that much I thought some of her so called friends were clout chasing trying to market what they were doing on the show.

 

specifically the trans woman who called out Jazz seemed like she was doing that herself. 
 

but that’s just my opinion. 
 

glad this season we are getting back to Jazzs crew who’s been there since day 1. 
 

just a real good show. I think Jazz just needs to be comfortable being Jazz stop thinking about what others are saying. Just be you and enjoy the experiences having fun in Florida. 
 

 

[lgprimes]

I agree with the poster above who states Ivy League schools lower their standards for celebrities- and athletes and for lots of other reasons! I would be shocked to find out Jazz has stellar SAT scores. Also, she was home schooled, which is one-on-one education so easier to get good grades.

 She gives great massages! And she seems to enjoy that! No need for a Harvard education, she should go to massage school! She would probably have a happy life doing that and could make side money getting paid for appearances at advocacy events.