S01.E07: The Rule of Five Hundred

[CountryGirl]

Banner Creighton is met with a surprise as the feud with the Duttons take an unexpected turn. Captain Shipley says his goodbyes to Spencer and Alexandra. Teonna continues to fight for her safety.

Airdate: February 19, 2023

[Snazzy Daisy]

Please… no no no!

Ohh Hank, noooooooooo…

😭😭😭😭😭 

[wlk68]

Does it feel like there was a bit of a time jump in this episode? Jacob was moving around more easily and there was snow on the ground. Also, Creighton has apparently ditched his sheep and his wife for a cushy house in town and some ladies of the evening.

I feel like the scene with Whitfield belt-whipping the prostitute was gratuitous. We already know he's an asshole. Was it supposed to titillating? If so, it failed.

And of course Whitfield will have the judge in his pocket. Grrr.

Looking forward to seeing how the encounter with Alex's ex-fiance goes. Wasn't expecting to run into him again.

Every one of those Jesuit bastards got exactly what they had coming.

[Abmis]

I'm digging Jack's wooly chaps.  I hope they make a comeback.

 

[LoveLeigh]

This was a tough episode to watch but a necessary episode. I admire how Teonna fought back but I know many real victims could not.

Why does this show end every episode with a cliffhanger? 

[Thalia]

I've enjoyed this show up until this point but I found this episode excruciating to get through; I kept having to stop it and go do something else.   As always I thanked the gods for the combined talents of Ford and Mirren.  But the Teonna storyline so so sad that I have trouble watching and this time even Spencer and Alex made me want to scream this time and I usually like them.   But her banter is starting to wear thin; I even thought I saw a trace of "Oh my God, what have I done?" flit across Spencer's face once or twice or a dozen times during their two short scenes.   

8 hours ago, wlk68 said:

I feel like the scene with Whitfield belt-whipping the prostitute was gratuitous. We already know he's an asshole. Was it supposed to titillating? If so, it failed.

So much THIS.  In fact everything to do with those girls was gratuitous.  Nothing, nothing, nothing was added to the story by having those two young women giggle around naked on my screen for ten minutes.  When Timothy Dalton said he'd take care of Flo and Alice I thought for some reason he was going to kill them; maybe we are supposed to intuit that he'll eventually take Alex or Elizabeth into dastardly clutches.

As for the ex-fiancee, I'm not sure why he was surprised to see Alexandra with Spencer.  She might feel guilt for hurting his feelings but I can't imagine we are supposed to think she would be torn between the two men.  

The guy who told Whitfield about Creighton's arrest is the deputy/whatever that the sheriff was so quick to hire last week, right?  It made me wonder if the sheriff have a connection to the bad guys.   I'm still not sure what the Dutton end plan is and why they still think they need Spencer.  Maybe they need someone to brood.  

Ending on the positive:  Helen Mirren continues to shine and I love Cara's relationship with Elizabeth and her commentary about the ranch's new "puppy."  I could watch Jacob and Cara and their mature love all day long.   I liked the "oh crap" look on Creighton's face when he saw Jacob.  

Does season 1 end next week?  If so, I may have to take back my prediction that Alex and Spencer arrive on the ranch in the closing moments of the season 1 finale.   This may be a multi-season journey, with season 2 ending with them enjoying a steak at a Harvey House in Topeka.  

[bunnyblue]

Oh Hank, oh no! 😥 I just knew he was going to pay a heavy price for helping Teonna. This storyline is breaking my heart and so hard to watch. I'm glad the 3 priests are dead but those 2 agents are still out there.

I already love Runs His Horse (Teonna's father, had to check IMDb for his name) and Hank's son and I just can't stand the thought of something bad happening to either of them. What an awful way for Runs His Horse to find his mother, but at least he was able to give her a proper burial and is on the trail of the agents who are responsible for her death and are hunting his daughter. I love how he immediately started tracking the agents and that he told Hank's son to take the back roads in returning to his father. I could watch a whole season of Runs His Horse dispensing justice on the white men who hurt his people. It's going to break my heart when/if he dies.

I loved the shot of men struggling to push the stalled car as Jacob and his posse ride by on their horses. 2 eras overlapping and no matter how much Jacob doesn't want change it is coming fast. 

With Jacob on the mend, it looks like Jack is learning quite a lot from him now. With a bit more time, I can see Jack being capable of running the ranch. But I don't know if Jack has much time because we got that ominous line from Bronn about Jack not cheating death for a third time. 

I really liked the dinner table scene and find it interesting that it's Jack & Elizabeth who are getting lessons on running the ranch while Spencer & Alex continue on their never ending journey home. Cara bonding with Elizabeth, and Jacob showing Jack the ropes is making me root for Jack & Liz to be the ones who continue the Dutton bloodline. The more I see of both couples the more I grow to like Jack/Liz and the more annoyed I get with Spencer/Alex.

Speaking of Alex, I got a strong Yellowstone Beth feeling from her when she told Spencer he'd have a good view if he walked behind her and she knew he'd be smiling. That line was nowhere near as vulgar as the stuff Beth says to men but it did have the same vibe. Between the ex-fiancé reappearing and the specter of the Italian Mafia, I'm positively on pins and needles wondering how Spencer & Alex will be further delayed on their journey to Montana. 🙄

[Artsda]

This episode was a much different pace and opposite of last week.

Spencer should be in a bit more rush to get to Montana. 

Oh no Hank. 

[circumvent]

11 hours ago, Thalia said:

It made me wonder if the sheriff have a connection to the bad guys.

Yes, he does. He has a deep connection with the Duttons. 

Seriously, though, I don't think we can define who is good and who is bad in this show - or any of the Sheridan's franchise.

I actually didn't hate the episode. Elizabeth is growing a personality, which is good. The actress was better than she has been so far, maybe the longer interaction with Mirren sparked something in her. Their banter was good and it felt real, something that two women worrying about their loved ones would do. It is to the actors credit - Ford and Mirren - that they can make a dialogue that has a lot of words that don't mean much of anything, come out so good. Jack has also found a sliver of personality, ther is a little rebel inside there. The whole dialogue was misplaced though. It was like they wanted the character to send a subliminal message to the viewers. I don't think that that would the main theme for a dinner conversation after the day they had.

Teonna's father and that story was tough. A little too gruesome but it also felt real. I am not sure if he would have gone on the chase by himself though. Maybe he would have gathered a few friends but I don't know much about the dynamics of the native relationships in the 1920's. They were already so fragmented and beaten up, maybe it was hard to find allies for such an endeavor. 

I agree with the comments about the prostitutes. Again, it is Sheridan and crew objectifying women. Not that I wanted to see what's his name (Banner?) walking around naked but in a situation like that, a man would not put on a robe to go downstairs and grab some booze. The nakedness, like the beating, was gratuitous. I would argue that the nakedness was even more gratuitous. The beating, while unnecessary, was to reinforce the evilness of a character. Naked women are to please Sheridan's obsession. I think we also have another glimpse on Sheridan's mind when it comes to women: blondes are the good ones, the pure at heart. the ones with red hair and the brunettes are "the rest". Another evidence of the objectification: the two women were super skinny and what most would consider pretty. prostitutes on the west wouldn't be necessarily that pretty. I guess the fetish is easier to sell with the mass thinking of what is pretty and desirable - never mind that the johns are not concerned about appearances, but power over all women. some are simply looking to relieve themselves. appearances don't play such a big role.

Alex was way too perky for someone who suffered a trauma. Her line of the view from behind was straight from the book of cliches. Pretty pathetic, really. She objectifies herself. Spencer - the hero whose name travels the world by land and by sea 🙄 - is completely emasculated by Alex. At least there was very little of those two on the screen. The fiancé plot is also silly and it doesn't add to the story (with one episode left and possibly another 40-year time jump in the next season), unless he will get into a fight with Spencer and someone will die - Alex, leaving Spencer to brood even harder; Spencer, leading a possibly pregnant Alex to make her way to Montana to prove how amazing she is; the fiancé, turning Spencer into a true Denton, the one who murders anyone who gets in his way and tries to take what is "his"

One thing I appreciate in the show is the care with the details: the long coats of the cowboys with the huge slit in the back, to make it easier to ride a horse, the struggle with the "motor car", the chains around the tires. That, with the cinematography, are the good points of the show. Luckily they have Ford and Mirren to deliver such poorly written lines. 

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by circumvent

[RedDelicious]

C'mon, somebody needs to do a temporary screen name "Banner Creighton's Robe".

 

[Affogato]

I disagree with the many comments about gratuitous nudity/prostitutes/whipping. The Montana part of this episode was set up to contrast the Duttons with the opposition. The Duttons are shown as family oriented. They support each other. They pass on knowledge about politics and cakes to the next generation. They have family meals. They listen to their spouses.  they are concerned with the environment and maintaining the land as it has been. This would be gratuitous family stuff if not for the contrast with Banner, who got lucky and apparently abandoned his wife on the dirt floored homestead to frolic with prostitutes. Timothy Dalton's character is not wholesome. The law is in their pocket and they kill grandmothers, support tearing families apart, and kill children, because this is part of the 'indian school' storyline, too. We are setting families against the not famiies, I think.   I do think the bit where they lingered over the two women lying on the bed was a bit much, frankly, so I get it, sure, but I also think this was a deliberate set up.

I don't think we can assume Alex is traumatized (I'm thinking she may be finding this, oddly, empowering), although she may be traumatized. (We may even find out she was raped by her ex fiance.  I expect something dramatic. )But the behavior, flirting, etc, is well established for her character and seems to have been how she survived before she met Spencer. I don't think we can expect her to drop it very soon.

I agree we have made progress time wise, and I assume as Spencer slowly moves towards Montana, it is possible every episode will have given him time to get a chunk closer.

 

[mythoughtis]

Not in any order of importance

Where did Alex and  Spencer get new and clean clothing and boots?   
Who cares about her ex-fiancée?   Is he somehow going to force her to pay him back for the cost of her safari?   Alex and Spencer are married. 
 

Everyone has said all there is to say about the prostitutes and then Whitfield’s  treatment of them.   
 
Jacob just confirmed that the Dutton’s criminal behavior started with him and continued through present day. James was a hard man but seemed to have a conscience.   
 
When does Teanna’s story meet up with the Dutton’s?  Or does it since her grandson didn’t know about his Native American ancestry as a child.  

 

 

[circumvent]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

I do think the bit where they lingered over the two women lying on the bed was a bit much, frankly, so I get it, sure, but I also think this was a deliberate set up

The story might have been set up. I have no issues with that. The issue is, only women are shown naked in all of Sheridan's shows. It is a pattern. Besides, it is also a Hollywood pattern to have women being objectified. I don't care about nudity in itself. I do object to the disparities in how they use the make and female bodies. This is just a fact. Some big(ger) names are refusing to take off their clothes to male directors just for the image of a nude woman. They could have done it without the explicit nakedness. It would be much more interesting, imo.

 

4 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

Where did Alex and  Spencer get new and clean clothing and boots?

The bag she was carrying called my attention more than the clothes. All clean, brand new, not a wrinkle or dirt. Maybe she got in the duty free inside the boat? 

[wlk68]

1 hour ago, circumvent said:

The bag she was carrying called my attention more than the clothes. All clean, brand new, not a wrinkle or dirt. Maybe she got in the duty free inside the boat? 

 And no visible water damage after being thoroughly dunked in sea water, either.

[RedDelicious]

I loved the expressions on Arthur & Co.'s faces when they spotted Alexandra and Spencer from across the patio.

 

Hopefully they're not staying at The White Lotus, arancinis be damned.

[LoveLeigh]

On 2/19/2023 at 9:50 AM, wlk68 said:

I feel like the scene with Whitfield belt-whipping the prostitute was gratuitous. We already know he's an asshole. Was it supposed to titillating? If so, it failed.

It was exactly that and it came from the mind of the man who wrote it: Taylor Sheridan. In order for him to think that up as something a man would pay to see for sexual pleasure, it has to be in his own mind... not just something he happens to know about. It WAS gratuitous and the expression on that man's face (I forget his name) clearly showed a sick fuck who got extreme pleasure from watching a woman being whipped. There probably were many who watched it who got turned on too. 

On another note, I am getting tired of Alex myself. And about Spencer's prophecy about Alex "running that skinny boy ragged?" Spencer just might be who she runs ragged.

It might be a good plot twist for her to go home after a few months on the ranch in Montana and a new love interest brought in for Spencer. Her adventure might be short lived.

 

[blackwing]

I really enjoyed the focus on Jacob, Cara, the ranch, and Boseman in this episode.  I agree with the comment upthread that Elizabeth is finally developing a personality.  And Helen Mirren was once again this episode's star.  What an amazing talent.  

I don't think things are looking too good for Jack.  He's too happy and too content, and seems like he has a "as long as this world contains Jack Dutton, all is right with the world" attitude.  I'm thinking he's going to die in the ongoing war.

I guess I am still confused, why exactly does Whitfield hate Jacob?  I get that Whitfield runs the silver mines and is out to pillage the land, which is in direct opposition to the Dutton ranch objectives.  But apart from that, why is Whitfield so keen on supporting Creighton?  Creighton is the one who picked the fight with Jacob to begin with.

I liked seeing Teonna fight.  Sad that her grandmother died and that it looks like Hank died.  The priests are dead.  Where is her story headed?  It seems obvious that she and Hank's son will end up together and continue the Rainwater family line.  Not sure about Native American naming customs, but it's interesting to me that the Rainwater name continued from the matrilineal line.

What is going on with Spencer and Alex?  I thought the boat captain said he was going to Marseille and "from there you can catch a ship to London".  How is that he ended up dropping them off in Sicily?  And how is it that the ex-fiance (and his seemingly entire 15-person travelling retinue) are also randomly in Sicily?  I really couldn't care less about the ex-fiance and not sure what he is expecting.  She didn't want to marry him, how hard is it to understand?

On 2/19/2023 at 5:53 PM, Thalia said:

The guy who told Whitfield about Creighton's arrest is the deputy/whatever that the sheriff was so quick to hire last week, right?  It made me wonder if the sheriff have a connection to the bad guys.   

Yes, unfortunately, it seems like Whitfield has the sheriff (and probably the judge and the entire local government) in his pocket.  Creighton will go free and the war will continue.

 

On 2/20/2023 at 12:06 PM, mythoughtis said:

Where did Alex and  Spencer get new and clean clothing and boots?   
Who cares about her ex-fiancée?   Is he somehow going to force her to pay him back for the cost of her safari?   Alex and Spencer are married. 

Was wondering the same thing myself.  For that matter, where are they getting all the money to pay for ships passage and food?  Is leopard hunting that lucrative?  We are expected to believe that Spencer has lots of cash stuffed somewhere in a bag he rescued from the tugboat and that none of it was lost?

[RedDelicious]

39 minutes ago, blackwing said:

What is going on with Spencer and Alex?  I thought the boat captain said he was going to Marseille and "from there you can catch a ship to London".  How is that he ended up dropping them off in Sicily?

Something about taking a ship to America bound for a port that is not entered by way of Ellis Island, in this case Galveston, to make it easier to get Alex into the US. 🚢 

[LadyIrony]

On 2/21/2023 at 3:38 AM, Affogato said:

I disagree with the many comments about gratuitous nudity/prostitutes/whipping. The Montana part of this episode was set up to contrast the Duttons with the opposition. The Duttons are shown as family oriented. They support each other. They pass on knowledge about politics and cakes to the next generation. They have family meals. They listen to their spouses.  they are concerned with the environment and maintaining the land as it has been. This would be gratuitous family stuff if not for the contrast with Banner, who got lucky and apparently abandoned his wife on the dirt floored homestead to frolic with prostitutes. Timothy Dalton's character is not wholesome. The law is in their pocket and they kill grandmothers, support tearing families apart, and kill children, because this is part of the 'indian school' storyline, too. We are setting families against the not famiies, I think.   I do think the bit where they lingered over the two women lying on the bed was a bit much, frankly, so I get it, sure, but I also think this was a deliberate set up.

 

True but we already knew all of that. They could have still had the prostitutes or just Banner living it up alone on the house. We knew Dalton's character was a prick as well, so now we also know he is a sexual sadist. The Dutton's aren't that wholesome either, they did lynch Banner and his men and were too stupid to hang around (pun intended) to make sure they died. I know that was the plan to let one escape to warn off others but it didn't work did it? Banner was only trying to provide for his family as well by grazing his sheep. 

*** 

I feel like the season is being rushed or they have just wasted a lot of time and are now trying to wrap things up. Perhaps less time spent in Africa may have been key, as nicely shot as it was, all they needed to do was set up Spencer as being a War Vet and action man. They did that first ep. 

With one episode to go, I wonder how they are going to wrap things up unless they are planning on a second season. 

[blackwing]

15 minutes ago, LadyIrony said:

I feel like the season is being rushed or they have just wasted a lot of time and are now trying to wrap things up. Perhaps less time spent in Africa may have been key, as nicely shot as it was, all they needed to do was set up Spencer as being a War Vet and action man. They did that first ep. 

With one episode to go, I wonder how they are going to wrap things up unless they are planning on a second season. 

They've already announced a second season has been greenlit.  But this is the exact same pattern as with "1883".  The season finale was approaching, there was a question of how on earth are they going to make it to Montana, then a second season was announced.  Then it was "clarified" that by "second season" they meant "1923".

It seems to me that Taylor Sheridan wants to make a show set in World War 2.

So whether the "second season" of "1923" actually means a second season of "1923" or whether it means "1943" or "1953" or "1963", I guess nobody but Sheridan knows for sure. 

I'm hoping for an actual second season of "1923" as I really enjoy the interactions between Mirren and Ford.  I know it is unlikely to happen, but I'd like Alexandra to die in childbirth.  Spencer takes off for parts unknown, and Jack and Elizabeth raise his baby as their own.  Surprisingly, Elizabeth is becoming one of my more liked characters.  I loved the scene of Cara teaching her how to make a cake.

[mythoughtis]

I can’t picture Alex being a mom.   That would interfere with her travel and adventure needs.  Life on the ranch is still hard in 1923.   Beth wouldn’t have made it back then either 

ETA- Beth would have been a much better person if she  had made it doing ranch life in 1923

Edited February 22, 2023 by mythoughtis

[CrystalBlue]

I would rather Alex dies from TB, and Elizabeth does have a successful pregnancy and miracle baby.

[circumvent]

11 hours ago, blackwing said:

They've already announced a second season has been greenlit.  But this is the exact same pattern as with "1883".  The season finale was approaching, there was a question of how on earth are they going to make it to Montana, then a second season was announced.  Then it was "clarified" that by "second season" they meant "1923".

I think there will be a second season if Ford and Mirren agree to stay in. 1883 was badly written and badly acted, there was no big name to sustain the series. I don't think Sheridan has the self-introspection to realize how bad he is a telling stories but the studios have people who can see the returns and what drives the audience. 

In the case of 1923, the series is also badly written and, as "hot" an actor like the Spencer guy might be, none of them has star power of charisma to lead the show. I would bet that they are still negotiating with Ford and Mirren (maybe already did, and will announce after the last episode). If there is no deal, then Sheridan will do what he did before - deceive the audience into thinking there is a real second season. If there is a deal, we will maybe have a chance to see (part of) what he actually promised - the origins of the present time Duttons.

[Rapunzel]

Even with very little Alex in this episode, every line she had was insufferable as was her treatment of Spencer. It’s probably unlikely, but I’m hoping that being around her family and former fiancé and all that wealth and those fabulous luxuries, like indoor plumbing, traveling through Europe and enjoying fine cuisine, high fashion, etc. make her realize that while her little “adventure” with Spencer had been fun and she got some good “ravaging” in, she really can’t give up the life to which she was born to and accustomed. 
 

If she makes it to Montana, I would love to see her pull that stunt with raising her glass up for refills without saying please or thank you that she pulled with treating the boat captain like a servant of some sort on Cara. I have a feeling Alex would end up having whatever was being served dumped all over her (and her forever pristine clothes) and Cara would have some choice words for the spoiled brat. 
 

I do hope that whatever spell she cast on Spencer wears off very quickly when they get stateside, though she will probably be pregnant and even if he was starting to lose interest in her, I don’t see him as the type to abandon a woman carrying his child. This would be completely fine for me as well:

8 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

I would rather Alex dies from TB, and Elizabeth does have a successful pregnancy and miracle baby.

Regarding the nudity and how the women were treated by Whitfield, I agree that the female nudity has been on the gratuitous and heavy handed side this season. I think we’ve seen women naked in every episode. I’m no prude and when it serves a purpose, fine, but most of the scenes with the nudity would have been just as effective without it, particularly as it is so imbalanced between the men and women. It seems so odd to see a man still nearly fully clothed and women naked in sex scenes, but it’s a show made by a man so he doesn’t understand or doesn’t like the idea of being either a bit more balanced or a bit more subtle. Also, no shocker that Whitfield is a sadist. His a rich man who wants the Dutton’s land to mine into oblivion and become even richer at any cost, including hiring a thug like Creighton to do it by any means possible. Having such a lengthy scene of him abusing those women wasn’t totally necessary to show us that his character is an ass who likes violence and having people submit to him. It could have been done in a more nuanced way and in less time.

[Haleth]

Maybe Jack and Elizabeth will somehow end up raising Spencer's and Alex's child, further complicating the family tree.

Shout out to Aminah Nieves for her heartbreaking portrayal of Teonna.  Well done, young lady.

[blackwing]

11 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

I would rather Alex dies from TB, and Elizabeth does have a successful pregnancy and miracle baby.

 

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

Maybe Jack and Elizabeth will somehow end up raising Spencer's and Alex's child, further complicating the family tree.

Shout out to Aminah Nieves for her heartbreaking portrayal of Teonna.  Well done, young lady.

I suggested that Alex die in childbirth and Jack and Elizabeth raise the baby because this scenario would satisfy both pronouncements we have been given.  1) Stupid Ghost Elsa's declaration that only one of her father's children will live to see their child grown; and 2) the Esquire article saying that Paramount confirmed that Jack and Elizabeth don't have children.

Of course, the Esquire article could be wrong.  But if it's not, I could easily see that Alex die in childbirth or from TB.  I've thought more about Spencer and now I don't think he would just abandon his child, given that his own parents died when he was young.  He probably dies from TB or in the conflict.  Then Jack and Elizabeth raise their child as their own.  Just like how Jacob and Cara raised John and Spencer. 

Maybe I am giving Taylor Sheridan too much credit, but if this show was written by a good writer, I would automatically assume that Cara's pronouncement that she thinks of Spencer as her youngest child to be foreshadowing the adoption of Spencer and Alex's baby by Jack and Elizabeth.

[blackwing]

3 hours ago, Rapunzel said:

Even with very little Alex in this episode, every line she had was insufferable as was her treatment of Spencer. It’s probably unlikely, but I’m hoping that being around her family and former fiancé and all that wealth and those fabulous luxuries, like indoor plumbing, traveling through Europe and enjoying fine cuisine, high fashion, etc. make her realize that while her little “adventure” with Spencer had been fun and she got some good “ravaging” in, she really can’t give up the life to which she was born to and accustomed. 
 

If she makes it to Montana, I would love to see her pull that stunt with raising her glass up for refills without saying please or thank you that she pulled with treating the boat captain like a servant of some sort on Cara. I have a feeling Alex would end up having whatever was being served dumped all over her (and her forever pristine clothes) and Cara would have some choice words for the spoiled brat. 
 

I do hope that whatever spell she cast on Spencer wears off very quickly when they get stateside, though she will probably be pregnant and even if he was starting to lose interest in her, I don’t see him as the type to abandon a woman carrying his child. This would be completely fine for me as well:

Regarding the nudity and how the women were treated by Whitfield, I agree that the female nudity has been on the gratuitous and heavy handed side this season. I think we’ve seen women naked in every episode. I’m no prude and when it serves a purpose, fine, but most of the scenes with the nudity would have been just as effective without it, particularly as it is so imbalanced between the men and women. It seems so odd to see a man still nearly fully clothed and women naked in sex scenes, but it’s a show made by a man so he doesn’t understand or doesn’t like the idea of being either a bit more balanced or a bit more subtle. Also, no shocker that Whitfield is a sadist. His a rich man who wants the Dutton’s land to mine into oblivion and become even richer at any cost, including hiring a thug like Creighton to do it by any means possible. Having such a lengthy scene of him abusing those women wasn’t totally necessary to show us that his character is an ass who likes violence and having people submit to him. It could have been done in a more nuanced way and in less time.

I agree that Alex has become insufferable.  Part of me wants her to make it Montana and get a schooling in life by Cara.  The other part of me wants her to die.  I don't think she has approached Elsa-levels of hate for me, but I think that's only because she has yet to approach the ridiculousness level of Elsa Lahgtning with the Yellow Hair Warrior Comanche.

Not really sure what confirmed bachelor Spencer sees in her other than her adventurous spirit.  Why her amongst many of the other women he presumably has met?

This episode had a lot more nudity than in past episodes.  In past episodes there were basically a single blink-and-you'll-miss-it scene.  This episode went on for quite some time, ending with a "50 Shades" style whipping with a sadist watching.  Is there any symbolism/reason to the fact that both of the women were particularly small-breasted?  Is that Taylor Sheridan's type?  They seem a bit too old to be waifs.

I think the only man who has to bare his butt in any of Taylor's shows is Jimmy.  Taylor seems obsessed with the actor who plays Jimmy.  

 

[circumvent]

2 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I agree that Alex has become insufferable.  Part of me wants her to make it Montana and get a schooling in life by Cara

It would be a double schooling: the character, on how to live in a ranch - and WORK; by Helen Mirren on how to act - and WORK.

[LadyIrony]

On 2/22/2023 at 7:16 AM, blackwing said:

Was wondering the same thing myself.  For that matter, where are they getting all the money to pay for ships passage and food?  Is leopard hunting that lucrative?  We are expected to believe that Spencer has lots of cash stuffed somewhere in a bag he rescued from the tugboat and that none of it was lost?

I imagine Spencer was paid very well for his job in hunting leopards and keeping the camp safe but as you say where did he keep that cash, in his rifle bag perhaps? It was the one thing he made sure he grabbed so my guess would be there. I would think someone living like him would be very careful about how they store things and would want everything they need the most to be in one place if they had to make a quick escape. 

On 2/21/2023 at 7:55 AM, RedDelicious said:

I loved the expressions on Arthur & Co.'s faces when they spotted Alexandra and Spencer from across the patio.

 

Hopefully they're not staying at The White Lotus, arancinis be damned.

What a coincidence! Anyone want to start taking bets that her ex fiance will arrange fast and safe travel to America for them/her?

22 hours ago, blackwing said:

They've already announced a second season has been greenlit.  But this is the exact same pattern as with "1883".  The season finale was approaching, there was a question of how on earth are they going to make it to Montana, then a second season was announced.  Then it was "clarified" that by "second season" they meant "1923".

It seems to me that Taylor Sheridan wants to make a show set in World War 2.

So whether the "second season" of "1923" actually means a second season of "1923" or whether it means "1943" or "1953" or "1963", I guess nobody but Sheridan knows for sure. 

I'm hoping for an actual second season of "1923" as I really enjoy the interactions between Mirren and Ford.  I know it is unlikely to happen, but I'd like Alexandra to die in childbirth.  Spencer takes off for parts unknown, and Jack and Elizabeth raise his baby as their own.  Surprisingly, Elizabeth is becoming one of my more liked characters.  I loved the scene of Cara teaching her how to make a cake.

Yes, will they jump a couple or more decades, 1943 if Sheridan wants WW2? 1953 or 1963 would make sense as it is another time period with a lot of change socially and technologically. It would also mean that the John Dutton we  know from Yellowstone would be born. Or a kid anyway. 

I can't see how they can wrap up the story line properly in the remaining episode so like you I would hope for a proper Season 2 instead of another spin off show. 

[Thumper]

Yes, I was giving Alex the side-eye on her pristine clothing.  There must have been a washing machine and iron aboard that ship!  (Maybe even a dry cleaner???).  Spencer’s shirt was still dirty and spiked.  Her leather bag looked brand new!!!   Agree that she bugs.

[rhygirl720]

There is no way I can believe that Alex is not Beth's direct ancestor. There are way too many entitlement characteristics to be coincidental.  Alex hasn't yet reached prairie Barbie levels of annoyance, but she is coming close.

I've been waiting for Spencer to arrive...I see no way they can wrap this up in one episode, but this is Sheridan. Now I can't wait for Alex to meet Cara. 

I actually like Jack and whatever his blond name is.  I refer to her as pretty blond. There is an exuberance and energy there that is believable. They are young. Add me to the crowd that think they raise whatever Dutton is born. 

Helen and Harrison, killing it. They breathe life into the less than stellar writing.

Cinematography? off the charts.

[bunnyblue]

On 2/20/2023 at 10:06 AM, mythoughtis said:

Where did Alex and  Spencer get new and clean clothing and boots?   

 

On 2/21/2023 at 12:16 PM, blackwing said:

Was wondering the same thing myself.  For that matter, where are they getting all the money to pay for ships passage and food?  Is leopard hunting that lucrative?  We are expected to believe that Spencer has lots of cash stuffed somewhere in a bag he rescued from the tugboat and that none of it was lost?

On the first trip out of the capsized tugboat, Spencer retrieved his bag and rope; on his second trip he grabbed his rifle and Alex's satchel. I shall assume her nice boots and coat were in her bag because she sure as hell wasn't wearing them when she first escaped the boat. What I find really annoying is that Spencer's gun powder and rifle weren't damaged after being submerged in ocean water and (like blackwing said) none of his apparently limitless money was lost.  

 

8 hours ago, rhygirl720 said:

There is no way I can believe that Alex is not Beth's direct ancestor. There are way too many entitlement characteristics to be coincidental.  Alex hasn't yet reached prairie Barbie levels of annoyance, but she is coming close.

 

I know Alex's banter is supposed to be charming but the more we hear the more irritated I get with her, and yes the more she reminds me of Beth. She was standing a few feet from Spencer when the sailor warned him about Mussolini and Sicilian Mafia; yet when Spencer says they need to get to a hotel, her response is to demand they find a café so she can have "pasta and wine". We'll see what further trouble that decision gets them into, besides running into the ex-fiancé. In fairness to Alex, Elizabeth was a bit of a spoiled princess when we first met her...but she wasn't as entitled as Alex is and she is adapting to the life of a rancher's wife; so we'll see if Alex can turn down her spoiled rich girl routine at least a little once/if she reaches the ranch. But I get the feeling that TS views Alex as this show's Beth and will continue to write her the way he does now...and if that's the case I will be rooting for Alex to meet a quick exit next season.

[mythoughtis]

1 hour ago, bunnyblue said:

if that's the case I will be rooting for Alex to meet a quick exit next season.

We can always hope.  Prairie Barbie seems to have quit narrating, so we do occasionally get through to TS about characters that annoy us.  
 

Question about her narration according to the article below:

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/1923-isabel-may-narrate-series.html/

 

She talks about one child living to see his children grow - I think that’s John, who died a few episodes ago.  She talks about one child to lead them through the depression and through the 20th cevruryb- I think that’s Spencer.  So my thought is that Spencer lives through the depression and long into the 20th century / but has no adult children.  What do you think? 

Edited February 25, 2023 by mythoughtis

[circumvent]

7 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

She talks about one child living to see his children grow - I think that’s John, who died a few episodes ago.  She talks about one child to lead them through the depression and through the 20th cevruryb- I think that’s Spencer.  So my thought is that Spencer lives through the depression and long into the 20th century / but has no adult children.  What do you think? 

I think we cannot really trust what they leak to the entertainment press. They also said that Jack and Elizabeth will not have children. So that would make Spencer die relatively young, if he has children, and Jack raising his cousin. The second season is also still not clear. It might be a big time jump that carries another name/year 19*3. I will believe there is a 1923 second season - as in 1924 - if I hear that either Ford or Mirren, or both, have their deals and continue on the show.  

[bunnyblue]

20 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

She talks about one child living to see his children grow - I think that’s John, who died a few episodes ago.  She talks about one child to lead them through the depression and through the 20th cevruryb- I think that’s Spencer.  So my thought is that Spencer lives through the depression and long into the 20th century / but has no adult children.  

Yeah, Spencer is definitely the one who will lead the family through "every hell of the 20th century", since John obviously can't anymore. I think it's still up in the air as to who that first line refers to; the use of "children" instead of "child" is what gives me pause. John only saw 1 child grown. So it's entirely possible Spencer will father children and live long enough to raise them into adulthood and guide them through the 20th century. But then that would screw up Kevin Costner's John III being 5th generation and born in the 1950's. So for now, I think I agree with you that Spencer will live a long life but will not father children. Kind of like Jacob. I suspect the season finale may clear things up a bit.

[RedDelicious]

Nah. If Spencer’s rifle was oiled up as one would expect it would be, 24 hours exposed to sea water wouldn’t be enough to render it useless. Same with the shells. They’re sealed so they’re still going to work. He wasn’t carrying Elmer Fudd’s musket. Think about how much  it must have rained during World War I. 

[millennium]

It seems to me the creator/writer has a sadistic/misogynistic streak as wide as the Missouri River.   The women in this show are either damsels, victims or sluts, the sole exception being Helen Mirren and probably only then because the actress wouldn't tolerate it.   The torture porn with the nuns and priests in earlier episodes was beyond gratuitous.   The whipping of the prostitutes in this episode seemed like Sheridan flaunting his kink, nothing more.   I suppose he maintains plausible deniability by including the cake-baking scene for contrast shortly thereafter (see?  Whitfield beats whores in the kitchen, the Duttons beat eggs!)  But IMO it doesn't pass the smell test.   Whoever's writing this has some deep-seated problems.

I want to like this show.  I want to enjoy it.   But it's the slowest-moving drama I have ever seen -- and I watched two seasons of The Killing.   I wonder, as Alex does her sappy, one-note schtick on his lap in Sicily, is Spencer picturing his close relatives lying dead and dying in Montana?  There is no urgency about him.   How does he launch into a full-on PDA there at the trattoria as if the moment will never end, when he knows he's at least 3 months late to whatever hell has broken loose back home?  

[millennium]

On 2/18/2023 at 7:43 PM, CountryGirl said:

Captain Shipley says his goodbyes to Spencer and Alexandra

Captain Shipley?  Seriously?

[Tyro49]

On 2/22/2023 at 7:03 AM, Rapunzel said:

Even with very little Alex in this episode, every line she had was insufferable as was her treatment of Spencer. It’s probably unlikely, but I’m hoping that being around her family and former fiancé and all that wealth and those fabulous luxuries, like indoor plumbing, traveling through Europe and enjoying fine cuisine, high fashion, etc. make her realize that while her little “adventure” with Spencer had been fun and she got some good “ravaging” in, she really can’t give up the life to which she was born to and accustomed. 
 

If she makes it to Montana, I would love to see her pull that stunt with raising her glass up for refills without saying please or thank you that she pulled with treating the boat captain like a servant of some sort on Cara. I have a feeling Alex would end up having whatever was being served dumped all over her (and her forever pristine clothes) and Cara would have some choice words for the spoiled brat. 
 

I do hope that whatever spell she cast on Spencer wears off very quickly when they get stateside, though she will probably be pregnant and even if he was starting to lose interest in her, I don’t see him as the type to abandon a woman carrying his child. This would be completely fine for me as well:

Regarding the nudity and how the women were treated by Whitfield, I agree that the female nudity has been on the gratuitous and heavy handed side this season. I think we’ve seen women naked in every episode. I’m no prude and when it serves a purpose, fine, but most of the scenes with the nudity would have been just as effective without it, particularly as it is so imbalanced between the men and women. It seems so odd to see a man still nearly fully clothed and women naked in sex scenes, but it’s a show made by a man so he doesn’t understand or doesn’t like the idea of being either a bit more balanced or a bit more subtle. Also, no shocker that Whitfield is a sadist. His a rich man who wants the Dutton’s land to mine into oblivion and become even richer at any cost, including hiring a thug like Creighton to do it by any means possible. Having such a lengthy scene of him abusing those women wasn’t totally necessary to show us that his character is an ass who likes violence and having people submit to him. It could have been done in a more nuanced way and in less time.

There was a similar scene in Game of Thrones, involving Joffrey.