S08.E11: LARP and the Real Girl

[Demented Daisy]

When two LARPers turn up dead, Sam and Dean investigate the fictional world of Moondoor, where they find a familiar face.

 

 

I really should have liked this episode, but it bugs me for some reason.  Maybe because I can't decide if they're making fun or not.

[catrox14]

I love this episode.I think it's a bit of a love letter. I think it's also a warning that some people might take it too far.  But I really don't think Felicia Day would participate in something that would so insult her realm in her real life which are the geeks and cosplayers and LARPers. And the fact that they had Sam and Dean partake tells me it was not mocking them at all.  Dean is so happy to play with Charlie.

[Jediknight]

Dean is so happy to play with Charlie.

Yeah Dean's enthusiasm alone should be a sign they're not making fun of it.  The first time Dean sees it he says "It actually looks kind of awesome."  He was enjoying watching it, and really got into it having a blast.

[DittyDotDot]

Oh, I don't think they were making fun of the LARPers, I just don't care for how boring the episode is. I usually do enjoy Charlie, but this episode is just everyone standing around talking for the most part. And, quite frankly, it oddly feels like an episode they produced for the youngins. Not because of the LARPing, but it feels like something that would have been on Saturday mornings, after cartoons, for the 10 to 12-year-old crowd back when I was that age.

[Demented Daisy]

Perhaps I should clarify.  Of course Dean is going to enjoy dressing up and pretending to be something he's not -- he does it every day.  But, apart from Charlie and the girl who helped Sam, they side-eyed the LARPers a little too much for my taste.  Now, it's a matter of perspective, but the impression I got is that they felt they were above it all -- until the end, when they were made leaders in Charlie's army, thereby making them de facto above everyone else.  *shrug*  

 

As always, mileage varies.

[catrox14]

I think the side-eye was only because their introduction was due to the LARPers that took the game too seriously and were killing people. But from the get go, Dean was definitely intrigued. He even thought the Moondor game looked pretty fun. And really Dean is a man-child so no I don't think he was mocking them at all.

[7kstar]

I liked it the first time I watched it, but I haven't re-watched it.  I love the outtake on this one. 

 

I won't say I loved it though.  On re-watch I might feel differently but I don't own season 8 but I might buy this one on itunes. 

 

I do love the ending with Dean and Sam and I like Dean with Charlie.  I think I had a problem with part of it being slow pace so it was a mix bag.  Usually it is the rewatch that I look at it with the director's eye.  The first time I try to play audience.  But I have watched some shows that were for kids and enjoyed them, but usually it is because some actor catches my eye.

 

I just thought that Dean and Sam were thinking they were taking this stuff way to seriously especially since they didn't know what was really out there.  I also remember Dean being torn, wanting to join in but also feeling to be cool he has to not do it.  His last talk with Sam, saying I get it, we don't have to join in and let's go.  Then Sam turns it around saying I think it would do both of us a world of good and I love Dean's expression.  First just plain excitement to okay sure I can do this, and acting as if it is still beneath him. 

 

I don't think they were really making fun of them but trying to show a bit of both sides.  It's certainly not the worst ep and for once I think it makes Sam look good at the end.  At least it's the Sam I like even though he doesn't seem to stay around for long.

[mertensia]

I like the episode. Dean's having fun, Sam's relaxed and has some fun, the whole bit about real life always intruding into the LARPing is funny and I always laugh at the delay at the end.

I appreciated the scene between Dean and Charlie where he got her up to date; she deserved to know about the Leviathan and it's nice that Dean has someone he can talk to.

[DittyDotDot]

Perhaps I should clarify.  Of course Dean is going to enjoy dressing up and pretending to be something he's not -- he does it every day.  But, apart from Charlie and the girl who helped Sam, they side-eyed the LARPers a little too much for my taste.  Now, it's a matter of perspective, but the impression I got is that they felt they were above it all -- until the end, when they were made leaders in Charlie's army, thereby making them de facto above everyone else.  *shrug*  

 

As always, mileage varies.

 

And this explains why it feels like one of those Saturday morning programs. Little too lesson-teaching for my taste. The boys come in and learn that LARPing is really harmless fun and have an adventure to boot. It's not that I think that all youth programming is bad, it's just that I prefer my Supernatural to be less so.

[mertensia]

I never got that impression from Dean though. Dean looks like he thinks Moondor will be fun from the start. If there is any hesitation - well remember people LARP their lives and the know it. Also I've seen people be tentative their first time at a Con where they just don't quite know how to fit in or how to act.

[DittyDotDot]

But I don't think Dean's hesitant because he doesn't know what to do or how to act, I think he's hesitant because he doesn't want to give up his tough-guy image and look like a dork in front of Sam--that would be uncool. If he had really just embraced his inner geek from the get-go, it wouldn't have seemed like they were pointing their fingers at these guys and laughing only to learn later that they were more like them than they were different (cue that very special after school special music). And even though they partook in the end festivities, it still feels like something they would be embarrassed to tell other "regular" people they did.

 

Again, I don't think TPTB meant to be making fun of LARPing, so I tend to forgive it a bit. Still doesn't make it any less boring to me though.

[mertensia]

Well lots of people don't want to look like dorks in front of their siblings; it's a very normal feeling for both Winchesters to have at times.

[catrox14]

Upon rewatch, I really stand by that it was not mocking LARPing nor the geek world.  I do think neither brother could understand why anyone would LARP, going back to The Real Ghostbusters. People were actually being them which freaked them out, especially Dean. But I really didn't think that once they were at the LARP experience itself, that they were mocking the people for LARPing as much side-eying anyone not named Charlie as being a murderer/monster or just being someone Dean found annoying as people.  Once Charlie went missing he was out for blood. 

 

And here Sam was really doing more of the mocking and it was all pretty much directed at Dean. 

-- The first time Dean saw the Moondor game he said "That actually looks kind of awesome" and was smiling and seemed excited. Then Sam shot him a look of "Really,dude?" which was kind of judgmental (Sam, judgmental? NEVAR) at which point Dean acted like he didn't care.

--Then once inside the camp, Dean was playing with a sword and Sam chastised him.

--He was helping Charlie with game strategy and moving the pieces and once again Sam chastised him.

 

I think Sam was also coming at it from "Dude, we are on a case. Stay focused, (never mind that Sam had sex with the doctor whilst they were on a case...just sayin). So when Dean had a bit of fun, Sam took those opportunities to mock Dean because he can, plus he was still really angry with Dean for trick with Amelia. I think by the end he felt bad about mocking Dean and decided that he wanted to have fun too.

 

So sure there were some pokes and digs at Dean's expense but never IMO at the LARPers that weren't killing people.

[rue721]

This was better than I'd expected! Usually Charlie bugs me because it feels like the show thinks I should identify with her, and I don't. She's also just too much, she's like an adult geek version of Shirley Temple imo (not Felicia Day necessarily, I've never seen her in anything else, but Charlie as a character). But I actually liked the setting in a LARP game, and imo the episode was a cute (albeit maybe too cute) diversion.

 

My favorite moment was when Charlie and Dean started getting into a conversation about "battle strategy," and Sam made them stop so they could actually discuss the case, but as Sam was droning on about whatever, Dean moved a piece on her big battlefield map and Charlie gave his idea a nod of approval. (I also liked that because it's my (completely show-irrelevant) head!canon that Dean likes to play chess. The idea occurred to me when

Fan Fiction aired and the guys were talking about Sam doing drama/tech when they were in school, because it made me wonder what extracurricular/hobby I could see Dean enjoying when they were kids. He seemed like he'd be really good at chess because he's patient, strategic, and good at keeping track of complicated stuff with lots of moving parts. Plus, there are all these plays and all this history to memorize and a whole niche subculture built up around the game, so there's plenty of opportunity to geek out over it if that's so desired. And it's portable. Of course, this is coming from a woman who has played one game of chess ever, so y'know. Grains and grains of salt

).

 

Also, I liked when Sam and Dean were watching the promo video for the LARPing club, and Dean kept getting all into it. But then he'd  glance at Sam, and Sam would be watching very nonchalantly, so Dean would try to check himself and also play it cool. LOL I think we've all been there.

 

Another moment I liked was when Sam and Dean were interrogating that one guy early on in the episode, and the guy was trying to tell them that he had been sending texts to the murder victim while he was "in character," but how he explains it is that the texts weren't from "me-me." The awkward pause went on just a bit long, and Sam looks at Dean, like, "uh, do you even know what to say to that?!" and Dean asks, as though it's an honest question, "did you really think that was going to clarify anything?" That cracked me up.

 

I think Sam was also coming at it from "Dude, we are on a case. Stay focused, (never mind that Sam had sex with the doctor whilst they were on a case...just sayin). So when Dean had a bit of fun, Sam took those opportunities to mock Dean because he can, plus he was still really angry with Dean for trick with Amelia. I think by the end he felt bad about mocking Dean and decided that he wanted to have fun too.

 

I think that the point of the convo at the beginning of the episode about Dean thinking they should take the night off and Sam being too uptight to even agree, was just to show that they needed a chance to unwind. But over the course of the episode, they both loosened up, even Sam, so that in the end they were even able to participate in the LARPing game and have fun. Sam didn't seem to me like he was trying to be the Fun Police or as though he thought he was too good for LARPing in particular, he just seemed like he was in-character as the boring workaholic that he is, lol. This is the man who lost his soul and still stayed on-task with his lore research, he's not going to get distracted by a LARPing club intro video.

 

I didn't think that anyone was getting mocked, and that LARPing wasn't getting mocked as a thing that people do. YMMV. I think that we were supposed to be identifying with Charlie, the LARPing Queen, and finding the whole idea dorky but genuinely fun. It was a genuinely light episode, imo, they didn't even kill anyone and there was never any sense of jeopardy. On the one hand, I'm way more up for gentle episodes like this than I am for watching the horrific torture of Samandriel/Alfie and ~meaningful~ scenes about relationships that I have zero emotional investment in (like Benny/Dean and Sam/Amelia), etc. On the other hand, it definitely did seem aimed at kids and was too squeaky clean for my taste.

 

This was an episode that I think they couldn't have done earlier in the series because it wouldn't have worked with a soundtrack of actual music. (I miss the music so much!).

[DittyDotDot]

I think I would love this episode if you remove 90 percent of the Charlie bits. I actually like Charlie at times, but somehow the episode starts to fall apart for me once she shows up. It starts off very old-school Supernatural with the convo in the car giving us the "mission statement' of the episode and then they go do the thing and learn a lesson in the process, but still loosely ties to the overall arc of the season. I stand by my Saturday morning youth programing statements above.

 

Anyhoo, I rather like the sheriff at the top of the episode. His moustache and attitude totally crack me up, "these kids today with their texting and murder" never fails to elicit a laugh. I also enjoy the interrogation scene at the police station--it's silly and fun. Dean getting the chance to geek out with battle strategy and such is some entertaining bits, but the rest of it is kinda tiresome to me. Sam sulking over Amelia, Dean and Charlie wandering around in their costumes, and the fairy stuff just does nothing for me.

 

I do, however, find it hilarious that someone finally calls Sam and Dean out about their fake badges, though.

[Demented Daisy]

I forgot to mention before -- Charlie shaming Dean over the Text Message Of Doom.  Yeah, yeah, yeah, Charlie only heard Dean's take, and Dean felt guilty about it, but come on!  

 

CHARLIE
You sent Sam a phantom text from his ex? Dick move, sir.

 

DEAN
Yeah, not my finest hour.

 

CHARLIE
So he found some normalcy with this chick, and now it's gone... again. Thanks to you.

 

 

For all the talk about Sam's agency, they like to take Sam's decisions away from him and blame it on Dean, don't they?  Not trying to start a fight, it just annoys me.

 

Speaking of annoying, I still think there was too much side-eyeing going on.  Sure, Dean said it looked like fun, but he had no respect for the people (other than Charlie) actually engaged in the LARPing:

 

DEAN
Sam, I think we can take care of a bunch of accountants with foam swords.

 

 

Mileage varies, of course.

[DittyDotDot]

I forgot to mention before -- Charlie shaming Dean over the Text Message Of Doom.  Yeah, yeah, yeah, Charlie only heard Dean's take, and Dean felt guilty about it, but come on!

 

The whole text message of doom was blown way out of proportion--Sam made his decision to leave Amelia long before he even knew Dean was alive and had nothing to do with Dean sending a that text message--the second time had nothing to do with the text message either, IMO. I thought it was thoughtless of Dean to use Amelia against Sam, but there's no way that it's Dean's fault that Sam didn't have his ridiculous normal life. I do however think Dean probably feels like it's his fault in some way because Dean feels like everything is his fault, but Charlie? Please.

Edited January 5, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

I didn't mind the Charlie calling out Dean about the message but she blamed him for Sam's lack of normalcy for what reason exactly? She doesn't know their history I assume. That's about the only time I ever really disliked Charlie because she jumped to a conclusion and what pissed me off more is that Dean didn't call her out on that little nugget.  Oh well.

[Goldmoon]

Usually Charlie bugs me because it feels like the show thinks I should identify with her, and I don't. She's also just too much, she's like an adult geek version of Shirley Temple imo (not Felicia Day necessarily, I've never seen her in anything else, but Charlie as a character).

Rue if you saw her (FD and her character and the writers) ruin the last 1.5 seasons of Eureka with her spastic genki girl (not) "adorkable" nattering of every nonsensical thing that popped into her head you might want to throw something at the tv every time her "Holly Marten" was on the screen, as I did. That said, Charlie didn't bug too badly here, but since I have seen FD do much, much worse to make viewers cringe, Charlie pales in comparison.  YMMV.  I have developed an allergy to FD.

 

Best part of this ep for me was Dean in his handmaiden's costume minus the wig.  Don't understand why he just had a snippet of chain mail, though.  It wouldn't protect him from much in battle.

[supposebly]

 

She doesn't know their history I assume

If she hasn't seen Chuck's Supernatural books yet, then no, she doesn't. But then, I don't think she has the right to judge anyway. She barely knows them at this point. This is only the second time she's met them.

 

if you saw her (FD and her character and the writers) ruin the last 1.5 seasons of Eureka with her spastic genki girl

 

Ugh. I was very weary about her showing up on Supernatural. But she toned it down considerably compared to Holly Martin. Still, range, FD has not.

[GirlyGeek]

I like this episode- good fun was much needed after the craptastic run of episodes I just watched.

I like Felicia Day, and I like her as Charlie.  Its nice to see Dean get worried about someone other than Sam and

its nice to see Charlie become more of a little sister with the Winchesters in the future episodes

.  

 

I could have done without the line from Charlie about Dean taking away Sam's normal life again... wut the wut?  Yes, poor helpless Sam couldn't stay with his married girlfriend and drink their lame sad lives away... boo hoo

And I could have done without Dean acknowledging to Sam that it was going to take time for Sam to 'get over what he lost'.  OMG, please stop.  He had already given her up *before Dean came back from Purgatory*!!  How is it Dean's fault?  No one's forcing Sam to fight monsters and leave his depressing relationship or the dog he hit with his car.

 

Can you tell I am so over Sam?  But more than that, I hate what the writers and show runner allowed to happen to the character because while I was never a big Sam fan, I never hated the character until this season.  sheesh

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I watched this right after ep 10, cause as someone above said, I needed something after the last couple craptastic episodes - although craptastic is putting it kindly, imo.  I call them major suckyMcSuckage eps.

I really wasn't that impressed with this one.  It was mostly just meh.  It had some cute moments, to be sure.  But it's not a stand out.  Maybe if I watched it again, it would improve.  

I liked Charlie when she was introduced, but for some reason she really grated on my nerves in this one.  I think it was the actress, not the character.  The character could be really cool.  I didn't have a problem with the "Dick move, sir" line in reference to Dean texting Sam as AL.  It was a dick move.  

The Best part, (imo) was the guy totally calling them out on the fake FBI badges.  It's about time.  I liked how he knew the ID numbers would have changed,but I seriously doubt the seal changes on a monthly basis - too many badges to reissue every month.  Unless last month happened to be the month it changed most recently.  That I could believe.  Still, I think that part would have sounded more believable if he'd said the seal was from last year.  (It's nit picky, I know.)  

Dean discussing battle strategy with Charlie was all kinds of cute.  

I also personally liked Dean acknowledging that it's going to take Sam some time to get over "what you gave up."  Notice, it's not 'what he lost'.  It's 'what he gave up.'  Cause Sam did give up something very important to him - and it wasn't just the 'normal life' aspect.  And yes, Dean also gave up something important in 'giving up' Benny.  But please do not try to compare one man giving up his addict friend with another man giving up the woman he loves.  It just ain't the same, people.

[catrox14]

3 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

But please do not try to compare one man giving up his addict friend with another man giving up the woman he loves.  It just ain't the same, people.

 

Dean most certainly did give up and lost an important  relationship with Benny for Sam.

Dean and Benny fought side by side in Purgatory for months maybe even a full year. Benny literally saved Dean's life repeatedly as Dean did Benny. They are brothers-in-arms. He got Dean out of Purgatory and helped Dean find Cas. They were brothers-in-arms.  Benny is not an addict. He's a vampire and will literally die if he doesn't drink human blood. He was trying to not kill humans by drinking donated blood.

[DittyDotDot]

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

 Benny is not an addict. He's a vampire and will literally die if he doesn't drink human blood. He was trying to not kill humans by drinking donated blood.

Actually, I believe vampires can live off animal blood...that's what Lenore and her nest were doing. Vampires don't require human blood, they just like it better. It's a choice, not a need. So, IMO, Benny is an addict in the sense he doesn't need human blood, but is having a hard time staying off the drinking-fresh-humans wagon. That's why he reached out to Dean, IMO. He got a taste for fresh blood in Citizen Fang and now is having a hard time walking around humans and not giving in to that baser vampire instinct.

Personally, both relationships were important to each respective Winchester and can't say one is more important or more valuable. I do think Dean walking away from his friend in need is actually kinda crappy in comparison to Sam "choosing" to leave a woman he had already left months before. I mean, cutting off Benny could mean someone actually dies. I'm not saying it's on Dean to keep Benny on the straight-and-narrow, but for folks claiming to be out there saving people, this seemed like a bit of a risky solution, IMO.

[catrox14]

Okay that animal blood thing for vampires is news to me. I'm still not sure how a vampire needing to drink blood is an addiction. If human blood is better for them as vampires, why is that an addiction choice? 

My point was really about Dean having given up a major relationship, someone Dean did care about, for Sam.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

6 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Personally, both relationships were important to each respective Winchester and can't say one is more important or more valuable. I do think Dean walking away from his friend in need is actually kinda crappy in comparison to Sam "choosing" to leave a woman he had already left months before. I mean, cutting off Benny could mean someone actually dies. I'm not saying it's on Dean to keep Benny on the straight-and-narrow, but for folks claiming to be out there saving people, this seemed like a bit of a risky solution, IMO.

I guess I should attempt to explain.  I've dealt with a real drug addict - and learned a hard lesson the hard way.  (without going into detail, I nearly lost everything - including my self respect and I was not a user myself.)  Unless you have ever really been involved with a true addict, it sounds really good to try to 'save' them.  To remain their friend, thinking that is actually helping them in some way.  And maybe in some way it does. (And oh, can they lay on the guilt to make you believe it does).  But the cost, the real cost, that fiction never portrays accurately, is that it eventually drags you down too.  When you are in that deep, the only way, THE ONLY WAY to save yourself is to cut your losses and cut your 'friend' out of your life.  

Was Dean at this point with Benny?  I don't think so.  But I could see it on the way.  And you slide down that rabbit hole before you even realize you're there until you're staring at a short little door you can't possibly fit through.  

So, imo - based on my real life experience - Dean walking away from an addict 'friend' who has already  used him as his supplier is not the same as Sam walking away from a fairly decent (cheating aside) woman he loves and with whom he wanted to have a life.  

YMMV.  

[DittyDotDot]

22 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Okay that animal blood thing for vampires is news to me. I'm still not sure how a vampire needing to drink blood is an addiction. If human blood is better for them as vampires, why is that an addiction choice? 

I don't know that it's any better for them, but they seem to prefer it. Lenore and her nest were drinking cattle blood in order to survive. They said it was disgusting. Seemed like they didn't have any ill health effects, but just didn't like the taste of it.

I don't mean to say Benny is an addict in the same sense Sam was when he was drinking the demon blood. But he was having a cravings for something he didn't actually need and was having a hard time staying off the thing he was having cravings for.  Seems like fairly classic addiction behavior to me.

13 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Was Dean at this point with Benny?  I don't think so.  But I could see it on the way.  And you slide down that rabbit hole before you even realize you're there until you're staring at a short little door you can't possibly fit through.  

So, imo - based on my real life experience - Dean walking away from an addict 'friend' who has already  used him as his supplier is not the same as Sam walking away from a fairly decent (cheating aside) woman he loves and with whom he wanted to have a life. 

Yes, that's why I said it wasn't on Dean to keep Benny on the straight-and-narrow, and I agree with you I think Dean was walking a dangerous road with Benny. But I this isn't just a simple junkie scenario either. Regular drug addicts are generally just hurting themselves (and the people they love), but Benny slipping means he kills someone, or many someones. I'm not saying Dean should jump and run with a cooler of blood every time Benny calls, but it might have been smarter to at least keep in touch with the guy so they could keep tabs on whether he was draining folks or not. At least then they might be able to go handle the situation before it got out of hand. That's why I actually think Sam having someone keep an eye on Benny was smart, just he picked the worst possible guy to do it and then wouldn't own up to his own mistake when it all went to shit.

I'm just saying, seems like there might have been a better solution to this problem that wouldn't have left innocent people in danger, is all.

Edited June 27, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[RulerofallIsurvey]

2 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Regular drug addicts are generally just hurting themselves (and the people they love),

This is another common fallacy about drug addicts.  And I don't mean 'society' in general.  They rob and kill people for the money to feed their addiction.  They get behind the wheels of cars and drive while under the influence.  They get other people addicted to drugs also and ruin their lives.  I could go on, but I'm sure I don't need to.  There is no such thing as a simple junkie scenario outside of tv shows and fiction.

6 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Dean was walking a dangerous road with Benny.

And the more I think about it, it would have been so much more interesting to see the Dean/Benny relationship follow the standard downward trajectory of addict/non-addict friend.  Eventually, Dean would have had to cut Benny off anyway; just not for Sam.  He would have had to do it in order to preserve himself, whether or not Benny killed someone.  

10 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

just he picked the worst possible guy to do it and then wouldn't own up to his own mistake there.

True, that!

[catrox14]

I've dealt with drug addiction and alcoholism in my own family and I still don't believe that there is a similarity to Benny in that regard. Benny literally must drink blood either human or animal to remain alive. Benny was struggling because he was trying to "stay clean" meaning to not kill a human being. Maybe killing an animal would make him more likely to kill a human. So to me Benny stealing and drinking donated human blood is probably the best course of action he has to not try and kill anything. 

IMO if Sam had been willing to listen to Dean for more than two minutes about Benny, the three of them could have robbed a few blood blanks and set up Benny for at least a few months. Hell, they could have had Cas rob the blood banks using his teleporting capabilities. I don't get it. LOL

[DittyDotDot]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Benny was struggling because he was trying to "stay clean" meaning to not kill a human being.

I don't think Benny's addiction is blood, it's the killing. Vampires don't have to kill humans to get what they need to survive--there seems to be plenty of options out there for vampires to survive that doesn't require them to kill people--they seem to do it because they like the feeling they get from the killing. And they return to that behavior to get the same feeling over and over and over again. That's addiction, in my book.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

52 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

IMO if Sam had been willing to listen to Dean for more than two minutes about Benny, the three of them could have robbed a few blood blanks and set up Benny for at least a few months. Hell, they could have had Cas rob the blood banks using his teleporting capabilities. I don't get it. LOL

I read a review somewhere on the net in which the poster thought maybe Sam being unwilling to listen to Dean about Benny was colored by his experience with Ruby.  And well, they had a good point.  Right now, all Sam can see is that Dean is friends with a monster after he got out of Purgatory.  (There was a lot more that I can't remember.)  So, on the one hand I agree with you that if they'd robbed some blood banks and set Benny up for a few months and then had someone (not like Martin, obviously) to watch him, that would have been better than Dean cutting Benny out of his life completely.  For the time being, at least.  On the other hand, where the brothers are right now, I don't think they could have ever agreed long enough to work all that out.  Even if Sam did listen for more than 2 minutes, Dean wouldn't have listened to Sam long enough in order to agree to have Benny followed.  

(And really, who's to say that robbing the blood banks wouldn't cause an innocent person's death if the blood needed - Benny seemed to prefer AB - wasn't available after a run on the particular blood banks following a multi-car crash or something.)  

16 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I don't think Benny's addiction is blood, it's the killing. Vampires don't have to kill humans to get what they need to survive--there seems to be plenty of options out there for vampires to survive that doesn't require them to kill people--they seem to do it because they like the feeling they get from the killing. And they return to that behavior to get the same feeling over and over and over again. That's addiction, in my book.

I do think it's more of an addiction than not.  However, I don't think it's all about the kill itself.  I remember when Dean's neck was cut, Benny seemed to be smelling the blood and that was making it hard for him to turn away.  It's still very addiction-like behavior.  

Edited June 27, 2016 by RulerofallIsurvey

[catrox14]

19 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I don't think Benny's addiction is blood, it's the killing. Vampires don't have to kill humans to get what they need to survive--there seems to be plenty of options out there for vampires to survive that doesn't require them to kill people--they seem to do it because they like the feeling they get from the killing. And they return to that behavior to get the same feeling over and over and over again. That's addiction, in my book.

So that comports with me saying for Benny  to kill animals for blood vs drinking donated blood probably wouldn't have helped Benny. 

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

do think it's more of an addiction than not.  However, I don't think it's all about the kill itself.  I remember when Dean's neck was cut, Benny seemed to be smelling the blood and that was making it hard for him to turn away.  It's still very addiction-like behavior.  

Benny is a vampire. Blood is food. Smelling the blood activates his desire to feed on human blood. That is not an addiction. Benny might want steak (human blood) more than chicken(animal blood) but he's gonna need one or the other or he literally will die. It's just not the same thing as an addict.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Benny is a vampire. Blood is food. Smelling the blood activates his desire to feed on human blood. That is not an addiction. Benny might want steak (human blood) more than chicken(animal blood) but he's gonna need one or the other or he literally will die. It's just not the same thing as an addict.

Then that comports with what @DittyDotDot said.  Benny might need blood to survive - but not specifically human blood.  He could live on animal blood.  And he could live without killing people by getting his blood from blood banks as he'd been doing.  But they showed him eyeing people in the park as if he was about go on a killing bender.  That's addiction behavior.  

[DittyDotDot]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Benny is a vampire. Blood is food. Smelling the blood activates his desire to feed on human blood. That is not an addiction. Benny might want steak (human blood) more than chicken(animal blood) but he's gonna need one or the other or he literally will die. It's just not the same thing as an addict.

Addiction is a condition characterized by compulsive engagement in rewarding stimuli, despite adverse consequences. For many people, food is an addiction just like drugs or alcohol.

I'm actually gonna change my opinion and agree with @RulerofallIsurvey, the human blood was probably Benny's addiction, not the killing. (Although, probably for some vampires the killing is an addiction too.) If you think of the animal blood as veggies and the human blood as junk food, then Benny had a classic food addiction.

Actually, the blood bank blood might be akin to sugar-free options which allowed him to satiate his desire temporarily with a substitute. Only, that can go wrong for some folks too.

I'm just thinking it was always going to end in blood with Benny. I might've been better for Benny if Dean had just drained his soul into a ditch somewhere. It's sad, but there it is. I just don't see how there's any way Benny was ever going to work in the real world.

Edited June 27, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

taking my reply to the Torn and Frayed thread

[Dobian]

On ‎6‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 2:23 PM, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Then that comports with what @DittyDotDot said.  Benny might need blood to survive - but not specifically human blood.  He could live on animal blood.  And he could live without killing people by getting his blood from blood banks as he'd been doing.  But they showed him eyeing people in the park as if he was about go on a killing bender.  That's addiction behavior.  

Going to respond to this in the Torn and Frayed thread to.  This one's supposed to be about LARPing!

A fun episode, I cracked up at Dean's Braveheart speech being interrupted by Frisbee guy.  Too bad Charlie didn't get a chance run off to faerieland with her new girlfriend.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Dobian

[Hanahope]

I thought it was a better episode than some of the last ones, at least no Amelia.  It was a bit lighter with the LARPing, though still had the deaths and bad guy.  Sam, obviously still hung up on Amelia, turned down the cute LARPer and was side-eyeing Dean throughout the entire episode, until the end.  It was nice seeing Dean have a some fun with the role.  And really Charlie is really FD in person, there's not really a lot of acting there.  Still, an enjoyable episode with a funny ending, good to see the guys have some non-hunting fun.

And I lol'd at the guy giving a quick glance at the FBI badges and knowing they were fake.

[DittyDotDot]

25 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

I thought it was a better episode than some of the last ones

Not to give too much away, but IMO, things improve, for the most part, going forward. There's still a couple wonky episodes in S8, but at least the bitching and sniping is kept at a minimum from this point forward.

28 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

And really Charlie is really FD in person, there's not really a lot of acting there.

Yeah, I like Charlie well enough in small doses, but I don't think Felicia Day is digging very deep for this character. ;)

29 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

And I lol'd at the guy giving a quick glance at the FBI badges and knowing they were fake.

Heh, I love it when this sort of stuff happens! 

[Katy M]

6 hours ago, Hanahope said:

 It was nice seeing Dean have a some fun with the role.

I love it when Dean has fun.  Like in Hollywood Babylon or even Folsom Prison Blues.  If you're going to impersonate people, you might as well enjoy yourself.

On ‎1‎/‎5‎/‎2015 at 2:16 PM, DittyDotDot said:

The whole text message of doom was blown way out of proportion--Sam made his decision to leave Amelia long before he even knew Dean was alive and had nothing to do with Dean sending a that text message--the second time had nothing to do with the text message either, IMO. I thought it was thoughtless of Dean to use Amelia against Sam, but there's no way that it's Dean's fault that Sam didn't have his ridiculous normal life. I do however think Dean probably feels like it's his fault in some way because Dean feels like everything is his fault, but Charlie? Please.

I don't like Charlie. But, I didn't think she was blaming Dean for Sam not having a normal life.  I really just thought she was telling him it wasn't cool to send that fake message.  And, that maybe he could empathize a bit.  And, before anybody yells at me, Sam could empathize, too, but Charlie was only talking to Dean because SAm was out of the tent.

[bettername2come]

"These kids today with their texting and murder." I like that Dean immediately is interested when he sees the LARPing video and keeps trying to hide it when Sam turns toward him. Dean and Charlie's friendship makes a lot more sense in this episode when they spend more time together. I could've shipped Sam and Maria the helpful LARPer. Jensen Ackles looks good in chainmail. He needs to do a period movie. Boltar is really well cast. I need a gif of Dean elbowing him in the face. I love Braveheart Dean. And that Sam wore a ponytail. I needed that moment in my life. 

[Wayward Son]

This is an episode I could have loved had things been different. It includes some genuinely funny dialogue such as the sheriff’s line about kids today, it’s lighthearted and fun and the end scene was a nice change of pace. 

 

However, the episodes placement means I’m left rather irritated and resentful of how Sam and Dean behave here. Last episode ended with Sam and Dean discovering there was something majorly wrong with Castiel, a character we are supposed to believe they care for and consider family. Then we get to this episode and poof he doesn’t exist to them, there’s not so much as a mention of him. Instead of making efforts to find and help their friend we get Dean urging Sam to have some fun, we get them wasting time LARPing and making silly Braveheart speeches. So, all in all, it’s an episode I could have enjoyed under different circumstances, but alas Robbie Thompson decided to just pretend the troubled Castiel doesn’t exist. 

[Catfi9ht]

On 10/19/2017 at 7:32 PM, Wayward Son said:

However, the episodes placement means I’m left rather irritated and resentful of how Sam and Dean behave here. Last episode ended with Sam and Dean discovering there was something majorly wrong with Castiel, a character we are supposed to believe they care for and consider family. Then we get to this episode and poof he doesn’t exist to them, there’s not so much as a mention of him. Instead of making efforts to find and help their friend we get Dean urging Sam to have some fun, we get them wasting time LARPing and making silly Braveheart speeches. So, all in all, it’s an episode I could have enjoyed under different circumstances, but alas Robbie Thompson decided to just pretend the troubled Castiel doesn’t exist. 

I agree with your point of it's a one, off episode and completely ignores the current overarching story line. However since I find myself not caring about the overall story line, I didn't really think of the episode in that context. I'm sure if I was emotionally invested in what was going on, I would feel exactly the same way you do. 

I've been reading the other threads and I'm in overall agreement with this is a "body snatchers" season. It's the same characters but they're behaving rather differently than normal. I think that's why I'm not emotionally invested. I couldn't care less about Purgatory, Amelia, Benny, and the tablet nonsense.

However, I will say, one-off aside, think was the first episode I remember actually enjoying this season. It had the right mix of funny and creepy and felt like the Supernatural of old which is funny because I don't remember liking this episode as much the first time through. I was cringing at the title because I thought it would demean LARPers and all the smaller roles would be TV-tropey caricatures of nerds, but I thought it was a fairly accurate and normal depiction.

[Iju]

On 8/9/2017 at 12:06 AM, bettername2come said:

Boltar is really well cast. I need a gif of Dean elbowing him in the face.

i'm on it ;)

[The Companion]

On 8/26/2014 at 12:43 PM, Demented Daisy said:

 

I really should have liked this episode, but it bugs me for some reason.  Maybe because I can't decide if they're making fun or not.

It feels like every show has to do a LARPing episode and the representation is almost never flattering. I think this one falls on the side of "not mocking" for me, but I can completely understand it landing the other way.

On 4/16/2018 at 7:54 AM, Catfi9ht said:

I agree with your point of it's a one, off episode and completely ignores the current overarching story line. However since I find myself not caring about the overall story line, I didn't really think of the episode in that context. I'm sure if I was emotionally invested in what was going on, I would feel exactly the same way you do. 

I've been reading the other threads and I'm in overall agreement with this is a "body snatchers" season. It's the same characters but they're behaving rather differently than normal. I think that's why I'm not emotionally invested. I couldn't care less about Purgatory, Amelia, Benny, and the tablet nonsense.

However, I will say, one-off aside, think was the first episode I remember actually enjoying this season. It had the right mix of funny and creepy and felt like the Supernatural of old which is funny because I don't remember liking this episode as much the first time through. I was cringing at the title because I thought it would demean LARPers and all the smaller roles would be TV-tropey caricatures of nerds, but I thought it was a fairly accurate and normal depiction.

I agree with all of this. The season has meandered through the rather pointless Amelia storyline and a halfhearted search for historical tablets. It is not particularly engrossing.

I appreciated that the depiction here included references to the participants being lawyers and accountants and normal people (I was worried with the victims). 

I said before that I love Felicia Day, so I was excited to see Charlie. For better or worse, you know what you are getting with Felicia Day and she either works for you or she doesn't. And either she fits or she doesn't. Mileage always varies on her, and I wonder if it depends on where you first see her. I might not love her nearly as much if I first encountered her in The Magicians rather than Dr. Horrible. For me, Charlie is a great character. She is completely different than the other women in this show, who seem to fall into a few categories: bland undeveloped love interest, hot damsel, older maternal figure, or demon. Charlie is smart, funny, and entirely uninterested in sleeping with the guys. 

I desperately needed this episode to keep me going and hopefully we can all move forward and pretend Amelia never existed. I know I have a certain notorious episode still to go, but I am hoping for more watchability going forward.

Highlights for me included Dean's reaction to dressing up, the woman who flirted with Sam (she was just so likeable), the guys busting in to save Charlie . . . From getting some hot fairy action, and the sheriff who was 100% over it. 

 

ETA: Why am I doing this to myself? But the dialogue with Charlie and about giving something up indicates again that the writers did not understand how the story was going to play with the audience. I think this is partially a casting issue (JP and the actress had the chemistry of oj and toothpaste) but this definitely reads as  showrunner issue, as does a lot of the inconsistency of this season. A good showrunner should be ensuring consistency throughout the season. Could this season have been salvaged with tweaks? Well certainly they should have removed the didnt look for you line. But beyond that? I think they could have done a better job. How does this story change if Sam has an actual life with friends? How does this story change if they actually write Sam to be initially despondent and unable to function. Stop telling us he was and show it. How does the story change if Dean's PTSD isn't largely dropped and there is good reason to question his judgement? The entire thing is such a mess and someone needed to detangle it. I don't think I would have ever liked the story but it could have been at least tolerable. 

Edited December 23, 2019 by The Companion

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, The Companion said:

ighlights for me included Dean's reaction to dressing up, the woman who flirted with Sam (she was just so likeable), the guys busting in to save Charlie . . . From getting some hot fairy action, and the sheriff who was 100% over it. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I just love it when Dean takes absolute joy and delight in the circumstances of a case.  Here, Hollywood Babylon, Folsom Prison Blues,  

 

1 hour ago, The Companion said:

I said before that I love Felicia Day, so I was excited to see Charlie. For better or worse, you know what you are getting with Felicia Day and she either works for you or she doesn't. And either she fits or she doesn't.

I more or less like Charlie, up to this point.  I will keep my future feelings about her to myself.

[The Companion]

16 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I just love it when Dean takes absolute joy and delight in the circumstances of a case.  Here, Hollywood Babylon, Folsom Prison Blues,  

He particularly seems to take a lot of joy from getting to dress up, and it is delightful every time.