S10.E12: The Fish Stinks From the Head

[Uncle JUICE]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

What? But Sandy said she got $10K per season for team building activities! Are you suggesting Captain Sandy told an untruth? 🧐

Well in this case she got reimbursed for the two uber drivers who took them to that very sad and very same gross beach. The volleyball net was already there. 

[MyMaui]

On 2/13/2023 at 11:43 PM, hisbunkie said:

 

It’s not a matter of “deserve” and it’s not personal, the Captain stripes demands and deserves respect. That’s all there is to it. 
There may be some misogynistic tendencies going on?

See most times I would agree but this case is different.  The Captain went after a department head on more than one occasion in a personal manner.  She does not like the stew.  When you do what she did to Fraser there is no respect earned nor granted to her at all.   It's not misogynistic this is a typical Sandy handling things.  She has a pattern on BDM. 

To me, what she did to Fraser is borderline harassment.   She went after him several times.  The team building is the biggest grievance.  She went in to this, and blatantly said so at the end, to show Fraser up to the whole crew. She calls him and the whole crew out for putting luggage...luggage out while she knows guests are not being rushed off.  She then berates him as a cancer and tells him he is the head of the snake and needs to be dealt with.  He talked about her? yes.  But by her own standards how many conversations has she had with Rachel on him and numerous occasions.  How many convos with him like Rachel had and Camille had?  None.

She comes on board, yes respect her.  She does the things above, yeah no she gets no respect.  Fraser do your job and ignore her.   Thanks Bravo for bringing this disease to Below Deck.  I thought you would have controlled it to BDM.  

[Welshman in Ca]

Anyone else think that Fraser might be the one who gets fired next episode & not Alyssa ?

[MyMaui]

1 minute ago, Welshman in Ca said:

Anyone else think that Fraser might be the one who gets fired next episode & not Alyssa ?

If he is I hope Capt Lee goes nuts on Sandy

[aghst]

So other than volleyball, trying to remember other team building.

Adventure had them do a zip line as a crew.

Maybe there were times when they scuba dived together in Down Under?

And then usually a day at a resort or getting to use all the water toys for a couple of hours between charters -- that's why it's ridiculous Camille went swimming on her own, clearly in previous BD shows, using the yacht's amenities during work time clearly needs permission.  Those amenities may include boinking each other in the guest cabins.  

Like who cleaned up after Ross and Katie?  If the interior had to do that, clean up a shower or a bed which otherwise was cleaned and ready to host guests, you'd think they'd have made more noise about it.

Presumably, during their off time, they could go swimming or maybe rent a little boat on their own or do some land excursion to see the island.

But having to go drinking together seems like it would be required, like the volleyball thing, because production had bothered to set up cameras and lighting and blocked out what kind of shots they wanted to film.  So if the cast members were free to skip these events and do their own thing, producers probably wouldn't be happy.

 

[kassa]

On 2/14/2023 at 10:24 AM, janiema said:

I’m on Team Sandy too. Partly I’m basing my opinion on Rachel’s reaction. She seems to be on Team Sandy despite their earlier production driven problems. 

I think Rachel's simply hedging her bets, assuming the captain has some say over future chef hiring decisions. Ben falls all over himself for her, too - if you think you'll work with her again, are you going to openly blast her? For somebody you don't care for?

Fraser does have a lot of maturing to do in management, but unlike every other BD captain, Sandy can't stay away from the cameras. You find Lee in the wheelhouse, or occasionally getting coffee or a snack, or at dinner with guests. He's not standing in doorways, leaning against hallway doors, stalking the guest areas. 

The "team building exercise" was merely the set up for the Captain Sandy Pulpit o' Bullshit takedown of the interior, featuring Chief Whipping Boy Fraser. Sporty woman lines up athletic jock squad against guest services staff in full knowledge of how things will work out so she can set up her guaranteed camera time touching monologue about what a failure you are until she absolves you.

Except Fraser robbed her of her moment, so she spit out her thesis in a frustrated attempt to get some of it out there, and realized it made her look petty and then she really dug in against him.

 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by kassa

[rur]

22 hours ago, aghst said:

 

But having to go drinking together seems like it would be required, like the volleyball thing, because production had bothered to set up cameras and lighting and blocked out what kind of shots they wanted to film.  So if the cast members were free to skip these events and do their own thing, producers probably wouldn't be happy.

 

I think the "team building" was producer-driven, since no other group of workers has ever done it. 

I recently read an interview with Eddie, who's been outspoken about how little the BD crews are paid compared to other "Bravolebrities"* and therefore  knows he won't be coming back to the show. He said that people working on actual yachts do not go out eating and drinking together or  spend a day off at a resort together. In fact, he, and other people who work in the industry say if they have time off, they usually try to catch up on their sleep.  

 

* Who the heck knew (besides, maybe, Andy Warhol) that there would be a TV channel devoted to turning disgusting people  into idiots that other people looked up to and wanted to emulate?

Edited February 16, 2023 by rur

[Uncle JUICE]

9 hours ago, kassa said:

Sporty woman lines up athletic jock squad against guest services staff in full knowledge of how things will work out so she can set up her guaranteed camera time touching monologue about what a failure you are until she absolves you.

 

This should have been the episode summary when I hit "INFO" on my remote. It's insanely accurate. Well done. 

[Mr. Miner]

15 hours ago, MyMaui said:

If he is I hope Capt Lee goes nuts on Sandy

Apparently they are feuding over Sandy not getting Lee's blessing to fire Camille.

[kassa]

I can't see Camille being the reason. Fraser, maybe, but not Camille. I think he definitely considers Fraser and Rachel "his" and would flip if she fired THEM without his input.

NEVER MIND - he has, indeed, said publicly that he was not happy that he learned about it after the fact, not before. Fine with the firing, but thought when she called him about it that it hadn't happened yet.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by kassa

[snarts]

1 hour ago, Mr. Miner said:

Apparently they are feuding over Sandy not getting Lee's blessing to fire Camille.

It's not about Captain Lee's blessing, it's about giving him a respectful heads up BEFORE she did it, not after. He is coming back and she knew that, so I agree she should make him aware of hiring/firing decisions ahead of time in the like case that individual reaches out to him.

Imagine if the situation were reversed, she's lose her mind if Captain Lee fired Bugsy, Malia, or some other favorite without telling her.

[Bossa Nova]

Yikes. Being forced to play volleyball brings up all my school aged gym trauma issues: Being picked last for the team, the awful gym suits, aggressive gym teachers, the cool athletic kids being the favorites, hurting my hands, smashing a finger and knuckles.

YOU CAN HAVE IT.

 

[Baltimore Betty]

15 minutes ago, Bossa Nova said:

Yikes. Being forced to play volleyball brings up all my school aged gym trauma issues: Being picked last for the team, the awful gym suits, aggressive gym teachers, the cool athletic kids being the favorites, hurting my hands, smashing a finger and knuckles.

YOU CAN HAVE IT.

 

I feel you...you are safe now.

[iMonrey]

Quote

It’s not a matter of “deserve” and it’s not personal, the Captain stripes demands and deserves respect. That’s all there is to it. 

They can show respect to the captain without actually respecting her, just by addressing her correctly and not talking back. They are not required to respect her because of her position. Sandy of all captains does not deserve the respect of her crew, she is an awful captain and an awful person. 

I thought last week's Galley Talk was interesting. They like Fraser and they (seem to) like Sandy so when she started coming down on Fraser they started to make some noise against Sandy, and then all of a sudden they were defending Sandy as if someone had stepped in and reminded them they were supposed to be all Team Sandy. 

I really think Bravo or producers are working hard to keep Sandy viable since she is their only female captain and they are unlikely to find another. But at the same time there are clearly editors who either cannot edit out all of her objectionable behavior (or there would be nothing left), or are deliberately defying the efforts to prop her. They could have cut her post-volleyball speech against Fraser, it was a really ugly look on her.

[Daisychain]

Ugh friends.  I've been watching Below Decks versions for years, and when I don't enjoy watching the show, I listen to Ronnie and Ben, the Watch What Crappens guys.  If you don't listen to them, treat yourself and do so.  I have read many thoughtful comments, which I appreciate -- when you're on the same yacht it helps to read thoughtful folks' comments.  I absolutely cannot speak for anyone else, but I'm done with Sandy.  I'm done.  She picks favorites, builds them up, and tears down other crew members.  There's ample footage on this.  Definitely, Fraser was quite insecure and it lead   to an environment where the other interior members felt it was ok to sh---talk Sandy, because he did.  And Alissa and Camille, the less said the better.  Ugh for those two.  In the end, who is supposed to be the leader and the adult?  So many times Sandy picks, picks, picks on people and I can't stand it anymore.  Oof I was going to keep carrying on but that's all basically.

[MyMaui]

9 hours ago, snarts said:

It's not about Captain Lee's blessing, it's about giving him a respectful heads up BEFORE she did it, not after. He is coming back and she knew that, so I agree she should make him aware of hiring/firing decisions ahead of time in the like case that individual reaches out to him.

Imagine if the situation were reversed, she's lose her mind if Captain Lee fired Bugsy, Malia, or some other favorite without telling her.

Yes! Capt Lee agreed with her decision but she did not let him know before she did it.  It was after the fact.  You give the captain notice before you do something as an acting captain.  She didn't and she knew she should have told him before but that is her style to do things like this. You can't do this to her but she can do it to you apparently.

[aghst]

He should complain to the producers too then, because they have as much say in who and when a cast member is "fired."

Probably more, a lot more.

[SemiCharmedLife]

Sandy, er, Captain Sandy, couldn't have handled the team building worse.  She should have mixed up the interior and deck teams so they can work with the other staff as a team.  Throwing Fraser under the bus and blaming him for the failure of the activity was the lowest.  He was excused by a doctor and in hindsight, it would have been prudent to inform Sandy of this prior to the excursion, but once she was apprised of it, she should have accepted it with kindness and not blame.  

I think Alissa's disrespect for Captain Sandy was the way she was responding to her during the reprimand:  "Cool."  Instead of "Yes, Captain.  May I add something?"  To me, this was more disrespectful than the "Sandy, Captain Sandy," which could have been her catching herself.  Alissa's attitude is all around stinky, but that does not excuse Camille's behavior.  After Camille left, Alissa became the biggest problem (well, aside from Ross the creep, who Sandy apparently admires.)

[iMonrey]

Quote

Sandy, er, Captain Sandy, couldn't have handled the team building worse.

Yeah, you don't "build up" your team by telling them "The team building experiment was a failure because of Fraser." I mean, way to build a team, huh? It's like a coach telling a team "We lost that game because of so-and-so." 

God she's awful. 

[gaPeach]

3 hours ago, SemiCharmedLife said:

Sandy, er, Captain Sandy, couldn't have handled the team building worse.  She should have mixed up the interior and deck teams so they can work with the other staff as a team.  Throwing Fraser under the bus and blaming him for the failure of the activity was the lowest.  He was excused by a doctor and in hindsight, it would have been prudent to inform Sandy of this prior to the excursion, but once she was apprised of it, she should have accepted it with kindness and not blame.  

I don't understand why Fraser did not tell Captain about his foot.  Even after he called for a medic to come out and look at it.  With that being said how did she not know the medic came aboard?

In defense of Captain Sandy, she has told Fraser several times to communicate with her.  Why didn't he tell her?  He knew it was a big deal, because he had to wake Alissa up and tell her it was mandatory.  Even then it would have been a good idea to let Sandy know he is going but not playing due to his foot issue.  Why didn't he?  Seems kind of shady on Fraser's part.  And I like Fraser. He just needs to grow a pair with his crew and be their Chief Stew.  He can be their friend when they are all off the clock.

[snarts]

1 hour ago, gaPeach said:

In defense of Captain Sandy, she has told Fraser several times to communicate with her.  Why didn't he tell her? 

Maybe because it was right after she'd screamed at him "don't talk to me now"?

[iMonrey]

Quote

Why didn't he tell her?  He knew it was a big deal, because he had to wake Alissa up and tell her it was mandatory.  Even then it would have been a good idea to let Sandy know he is going but not playing due to his foot issue.  Why didn't he? 

The medic told him to keep sand out of it. He might not have been sure whether or not they were actually going to play on sand until he got there. But that's just speculation on my part.

The Galley Talk crew were suspiciously uncritical of Sandy. The lone exception was Kate who said she shouldn't have called Fraser out like that if she wants "team building."  And that was about it. 

[meep.meep]

I thought the Galley Talk people were critical of Sandy with the notable exception of Aisha and Kyle who were the only ones who have worked as stews under Sandy.

I think Alissa's getting a reprimand, not fired.  After giving Camille several chances to improve, she deserves a second chance.

[Midwestern Lady]

I anxiously await the reunion to see Captain Sandy and Captain Lee's reaction to nasty Ross having sex and being inappropriate with  the ladies.   

[MyMaui]

I would honestly love if the ones in the Galley talk were talked to the way Fraser was if they would be saying the same things now.  I guarantee all of them would be complaining in their talking heads about her for sure. Especially Kyle.  He was way worse than anything Fraser did and was more of a waste on interior,  He got away with murder compared to Fraser.  Spare me Aisha you couldn't lead anything.

[racked]

On 2/18/2023 at 7:39 PM, Midwestern Lady said:

I anxiously await the reunion to see Captain Sandy and Captain Lee's reaction to nasty Ross having sex and being inappropriate with  the ladies.   

Do the captains normally care about this? I’ve seen a few seasons of Sailing Yacht and that captain certainly never reprimanded Gary for it. 

I like Fraser and dislike Sandy, and she handled everything wrong. But he really is a mess as the Chief Stew. I wonder how things would have played out if Lee hadn’t left. 

[kassa]

1 hour ago, racked said:

I like Fraser and dislike Sandy, and she handled everything wrong. But he really is a mess as the Chief Stew. I wonder how things would have played out if Lee hadn’t left. 

Lee's central rule is not to embarrass him or the boat. The passengers have been happy and given good tips. Other than drama within guest earshot, I think he would have stayed out of all of it. And if Alyssa said "cool, cool" to him he wouldn't have devoted screen time to pacing and tugging at his hair in "whatever shall I do, audience?" mode. He would have told her to watch her mouth or get off his boat, and she would have slunk off.

[deboraht]

I quit watching after the Bru season because I completely lost my enjoyment of the show, but a friend convinced me to revisit it a couple of months ago. I marathoned BDM until the Malia/Sandy/Hannah debacle (no fan of Hannah, but couldn't stand another episode with the other two) and then switched to the OG and just caught up. 

Sandy would have been fired long ago in my place of employment having violated our Respect in the Workplace policy pretty much every episode. It's horrifying how she's treating Fraser. He's a green chief stew with loads of potential, and he needs guidance and support. His management style is different than most of the chief stews we've seen - he uses positive reinforcement which has been effective in getting his team to respect him - he just needs help finding the line between friendship and leadership. 

Sandy undermines and belittles him in front of others, and that just feeds into his insecurities. It's really uncomfortable to watch. I would have found it far more interesting to watch him grow over the season rather than become beat down. I miss his tongue in cheek snark.

I miss earlier seasons where the captain was rarely on camera - Lee's appearances back then were fun and refreshing. BDM became the Sandy show, and now it's polluted the OG. 

And it's never ok to call somebody a cancer.

Edited February 20, 2023 by deboraht
Double post

[jrzy]

Sandy is an attention seeking bravocelebrity ,  she is in love with her own reflection and has no regard for others.

 

[bencr]

On 2/17/2023 at 10:27 AM, SemiCharmedLife said:

He was excused by a doctor and in hindsight, it would have been prudent to inform Sandy of this prior to the excursion, but once she was apprised of it, she should have accepted it with kindness and not blame.  

Agree ... Especially since Fraser probably hurt his foot by working so hard on behalf of the guests. Sandy's comment is a classic case of adding insult to injury.

[aghst]

1 hour ago, jrzy said:

Sandy is an attention seeking bravocelebrity ,  she is in love with her own reflection and has no regard for others.

 

Does she have other income than Bravo?  Does she do yacht charters outside the show?

She may be more motivated to keep her place on BDM and the Bravo universe generally than having some personality which makes her lord it over these reality show celebrity wannabes.

For instance, Kerry, Jason and Glen are more low-key, especially in their first seasons.  Do they gradually become more assertive, insert themselves in more scenes as they do more seasons?  If they do, that would be indicative of getting direction to show more of them bossing the crew.

 

 

[kassa]

I do retain questions about how the doctor/NP came to the ship. To my recollection we've never had the Chief Stew make such a call before - it always went through the captain. So did he go to her to request a consultation and she told him to go ahead and call, or did he just call?  If he just called without her knowledge, did she not know that somebody came onto her boat without her knowledge? She would be justifiably angry if that were the case. The fact that after the whole Malia business she kind of shrugged away the "I should have been told" as if it were a minor piece of the problem makes me believe she knew about the doctor visit and told him to have it checked out, and he didn't report the results to her... but she also never requested the results. 

Maybe she was "off duty" in some capacity and he ran it through the first officer and she was aware that THAT had happened and so couldn't fault him on going around her back, merely on not filling her in on the diagnosis in time for her to reschedule her public shaming event? I hope they explain that bit of business, because something is being left out of this equation. 

[aghst]

1 hour ago, kassa said:

I do retain questions about how the doctor/NP came to the ship. To my recollection we've never had the Chief Stew make such a call before - it always went through the captain. So did he go to her to request a consultation and she told him to go ahead and call, or did he just call?  If he just called without her knowledge, did she not know that somebody came onto her boat without her knowledge? She would be justifiably angry if that were the case. The fact that after the whole Malia business she kind of shrugged away the "I should have been told" as if it were a minor piece of the problem makes me believe she knew about the doctor visit and told him to have it checked out, and he didn't report the results to her... but she also never requested the results. 

Maybe she was "off duty" in some capacity and he ran it through the first officer and she was aware that THAT had happened and so couldn't fault him on going around her back, merely on not filling her in on the diagnosis in time for her to reschedule her public shaming event? I hope they explain that bit of business, because something is being left out of this equation. 

When he told her about his foot at the volleyball, she said he didn't report it to her.

[kassa]

12 hours ago, aghst said:

When he told her about his foot at the volleyball, she said he didn't report it to her.

I just wonder if they're playing with semantics. Seems like she'd be even more upset that he went behind her back to call the doctor and have someone come onto her boat without her knowledge than that he cut his foot and didn't say anything. Feels like a big puzzle piece is missing.  

[beerophilia]

On 2/14/2023 at 3:00 AM, Chatty Cake said:

Sandy is a such a moron. She has no idea that her prized bosun is having a relationship with one of his subordinates, gets crazy drunk and is all around inappropriate. 

 

I don't believe for a moment that Sandy wasn't aware of this "relationship." Ross & Katie weren't exactly making a secret of it, sometimes hugging & kissing openly in passageways and on deck. I suspect the deck crew was running smoothly enough that she didn't want to disturb their operation by nipping that in the bud. Every captain I worked for on similar-sized ships, with larger crews, showed their knowledge of the relationships on board by randomly bringing them up, usually while I was standing lookout for them in the early mornings.