S07.E18: Reunion Part 1

[Talented Tenth]

2 hours ago, lasu said:

No.  Candiace used the term "generational wealth" first, which is what I took issue with.  And regardless, using someone's privilege against them is not as bad as using someone's LACK of privilege against them.  Neither of them earned or didn't earn their privilege or lack there of - that's why it's called privilege. 

No.  Saying that Ashley doesn't have generational wealth is factual.  And it's my opinion that Candiace should stick to things she herself has EARNED as responses to Ashley.  I never said nor implied that I thought Candiace is responsible for Sheila's poor choices (what an odd take, tbh).  I've never said Candiace should be nicer to Ashley. I've also never said that Ashley is a nice girl who never did anything wrong.  But just because Ashley is a mean girl doesn't mean I can't want Candiace to continue to mature.  I can both like Candiace and have issues with parts of her behavior.  

I don't think it's problematic for Candiace to point out that Ashley called her the least accomplished and threw it in her face that she wasn't 100% financially independent (via generational wealth) while Ashley herself isn't 100% financially independent.  Everybody on the show wants their children to have generational wealth.  It was stupid for any of them to take digs at Candiace for it.

[drivethroo]

3 hours ago, lasu said:

Ashley cannot put her money where her mouth is regarding generational wealth - which is what I said.  No matter what choices she makes, she will never be the recipient of generational wealth. 

Of course Ashley can put her money where her mouth is. Ashley needs to buy a house herself with her BRAVO checks she can afford instead of begging Michael to buy her a bigger and better house than Candiace’s. Ashley could’ve afforded a million dollar house in Arlington, million and a half even. She doesn’t need a 2-3 million dollar house that she knows she can’t afford.

None of this is about adult responsibility or Candiace needing to not lord her wealth over poor struggling Ashley. This is about Ashley being MADMAD that bitch Candiace has a nicer house than hers and not having to degrade herself to get it. It’s no coincidence Ashley brought on Sesame Street and her accusations AFTER she got invited to Candiace’s house.
 

Ashley’s poverty spirit is none of Candiace’s business. Leave her alone to figure out how to tik tok and pop lock enough to pay that $13,000/mortgage on her new stunt house. 

[lasu]

23 minutes ago, Talented Tenth said:

I don't think it's problematic for Candiace to point out that Ashley called her the least accomplished and threw it in her face that she wasn't 100% financially independent (via generational wealth) while Ashley herself isn't 100% financially independent.  Everybody on the show wants their children to have generational wealth.  It was stupid for any of them to take digs at Candiace for it.

FWIW, I also think it was dumb to take digs at Candiace over the fact that her mom was helping her, and I have no problem with Candiace taking Ashley to task over calling her the least accomplished.  My point was more that Candiace has plenty she has earned now, and she can use her own accomplishments as rebuttal.  

2 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

Of course Ashley can put her money where her mouth is.

I'm not sure if you are being purposely obtuse, but I said she cannot put her money where her mouth is in regards to generational wealth.  I don't feel like you're engaging with what I'm actually saying, so there's not much point in me continuing to say things.

[goofygirl]

On 2/21/2023 at 8:52 AM, eXiled said:

Advertise for a new mark? At the rate Ashley's going, she'll leave her next serious relationship with LESS than what she brought into it. If she's really gold-digging, sis is doing it wrong.

Though ... she seems so happy and self-satisfied that I wonder if a divorce is even going to happen. While not quite as much of a prevaricator as her sister in old-dick-sucking Mia is, Ashley ain't above lying. Ashley may just be smart enough to not discuss the terms of her divorce on television. After seeing various housewives get taken down by the IRS, that might be for the best. I would rather people think me broke instead of having my assets audited and siphoned off before I could trade my Forever 21 maxis for some Chanel.

Can't wait to see how it all shakes out. I was one of those who never believed Robyn and Juan would re-tie the knot, so what do I know? (Michael Darby must have himself a new boo somewhere, otherwise, that wedding would never have happened, y'all. You can't tell me old Gollum didn't have a private investigator on the Dixons trail, keeping him notified about Juan's every move.)

See the lengths we stoop to when we're unloved or aren't provided for when we're little? Ashley ain't the only one. Ashley, Mia, Bethenny, Ramona, and Kenya need their own "My Mother/Daddy Didn't Love Me" reality show; I'd watch that shit like it was my job. All of the named wives are hot messes. They'd eat each other alive.

What's so profound and ironic is that ALL those women named above are GROWN-ASS WOMEN!!!

There's a psych professional that can help each and every one of them.  Apparently, it's more lucrative to show their shit to America than it is to actually FIX their shit.  Weird.

[goofygirl]

On 2/22/2023 at 4:22 PM, Arynm said:

This was not the burn she thinks it was, with the "dwindling uterus" As someone who has had a hysterectomy it is devastating even though I was done having children. To have that option totally taken away is tough.

Fuck Candiace for that read. I hope she doesn't have any female issues as she gets older.

I think Candiace is just throwing flames at the fire.  She doesn't want kids RIGHT NOW and subjects us to her hideous experience of getting eggs frozen "FOR LATER".  I actually think she's trying to have it both ways!  She wants to have a baby when she WANTS one, and is considering surrogacy but what the hell happens  if all this doesn't end up as her PLAN did?  

Her uterus is "dwindling"?  Her eggs are scrambled?  It's just so NASTY and RUDE.

Edited February 24, 2023 by goofygirl

[Marley]

Normally I would agree about Candiace's uterus comment being rude and uncalled for but Gizelle is trash and her goal in life seems to be to ruin ppls marriages and reps so meh.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Marley

[Chatty Cake]

15 hours ago, goofygirl said:

I think Candiace is just throwing flames at the fire.  She doesn't want kids RIGHT NOW and subjects us to her hideous experience of getting eggs frozen "FOR LATER".  I actually think she's trying to have it both ways!  She wants to have a baby when she WANTS one, and is considering surrogacy but what the hell happens  if all this doesn't end up as her PLAN did?  

Her uterus is "dwindling"?  Her eggs are scrambled?  It's just so NASTY and RUDE.

I’m guessing Candiace wants to see how things play out with Chris before having a child with him. I bet behind the scenes she has gone through his phone to see who he is sending dm’s to. 

[JAYJAY1979]

Ashley is the reason why prenuptial agreements are a thing..and why anyone with wealth should make their spouse sign one.  She's vile.

Candiace was right about Gizelle...she was working for her pay check.

[spunky]

18 hours ago, Chatty Cake said:

I’m guessing Candiace wants to see how things play out with Chris before having a child with him. I bet behind the scenes she has gone through his phone to see who he is sending dm’s to. 

They both said that they dm/text each other's friends and neither one has a problem with it, because they always tell each other, and they both have full access to each other's phones. 

As for children she said on her podcast that she always knew she wanted children she's just scared. While she loves and appreciates her mother,  Dorothy wasn't emotionally available/emotionally supportive during her childhood. She's terrified of doing to her children what her mother did to her. Chris has also confirmed that she always has an excuse because she's scared of repeating Dorothy's mistakes.

 

Edited February 25, 2023 by spunky

[ZettaK]

At least Andy Cohen grills the participants of reality shows lately. He did it with Heather and Meredith of the Salt Lake City HWs, as well. 

I don't have an issue regarding generational wealth. It's almost impossible for young individuals to buy a house or pay for college tuition by themselves. Unfortunately, some parents, or relatives who might help are like Dorothy- there is a price to pay after all. 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2023 by ZettaK

[Stats Queen]

28 minutes ago, ZettaK said:

At least Andy Cohen grills the participants of reality shows lately. He did it with Heather and Meredith of the Salt Lake City HWs, as well. 

He’s done it on two reunions this past year, which is a vast improvement from not at all.

[LaurelleJ]

On 2/24/2023 at 6:30 AM, Marley said:

Normally I would agree about Candiace's uterus comment being rude and uncalled for but Gizelle is trash and her goal in life seems to be to ruin ppls marriages and reps so meh.

Gizelle walked up to Mia and said so this is what cancer no cancer looks like? I can't with her. 

[Chatty Cake]

9 hours ago, spunky said:

They both said that they dm/text each other's friends and neither one has a problem with it, because they always tell each other, and they both have full access to each other'sphones. 

As for children she said on her podcast that she always knew she wanted children she's just scared. While she loves and appreciates her mother,  Dorothy wasn't emotionally available/emotionally supportive during her childhood. She's terrified of doing to her children what her mother did to her. Chris has also confirmed that she always has an excuse because she's scared of repeating Dorothy's mistakes.

 

Of course she’s going to say they dm each other’s friends after the fact. She has to save face. I don’t think she’s scared to have a kid. She wants to see if her singing career will take off. Also Chris already has multiple kids and baby mamas. 

[Chatty Cake]

1 hour ago, LaurelleJ said:

Gizelle walked up to Mia and said so this is what cancer no cancer looks like? I can't with her. 

No doubt Gizelle is messy and a naysayer but I don’t think anyone thought Mia had cancer. 

[LaurelleJ]

1 hour ago, Chatty Cake said:

No doubt Gizelle is messy and a naysayer but I don’t think anyone thought Mia had cancer. 

Definitely not, but on the off chance she did, I would have been like Wendy and just kept that to myself. 

[drivethroo]

Ashley can't recieve generational wealth but she has the ability to GIVE it to her own children. Bashing Candiace for receiving generational wealth but expecting her own children to benefit from it is what's making Ashley look stupid. 

Ashley putting her money where her mouth is would be:

• Expecting Dean & Dylan to buy their own houses and save up their own 20% down payments with no help from her or Michael's estate
• Upon learning she would receive nothing from the divorce, buy her own house she could afford without Michael's help (or at least get her own independent lawyer and force Michael to buy her a house outright* as part of the divorce settlement)

Ashley will do none of this because Ashley doesn't have an issue with giving or receiving generational wealth in theory.  Otherwise, she'd be chastizing Robyn over getting help from her mother or chastizing Karen to not help her daughter. 

Ashley is mad Candiace gets to be a child with Dorothy while Ashley has had to be the adult with Sheila. She needs to unpack that but instead, she projects all of this jealousy onto Candiace.  Candiace has finally clocked the root of Ashley's dislike of her and called her out on it (hence, bringing up genrational wealth).

Ashley will never see it for Candiace and hopefully Candiace realizes this and resolves to just pay Ashley dust from here on out.

*I suspect Michael didn't want to buy Ashley a house outright because he knows Sheila and 'em will be making themselves at home in his children's house. He bought the house in the LLC so he still has control over who is in that house...as evidenced by him popping up and making Luke scurry away in the night...

 

Edited February 25, 2023 by drivethroo

[Marley]

For some reason I feel like Ashley may be getting more from Michael in the divorce then she’s saying. She’s being vague. I feel like Michael’s money is shady somehow.

Ashley and Luke are a stupid couple. Her saying she was falling in love with him is pretty lame. Luke is a fuck boy he was not planning on settling down with a single mother of 2. He also is not rich enough for Ashley lol.

Jason and Gizelle is fake as hell to me. If Gizelle somehow shows up on Winter House I’m out of here lol. I doubt that tho. Gizelle gives off an asexual vibe to me. All her relationships seem so fake.

[Chatty Cake]

21 hours ago, Marley said:

For some reason I feel like Ashley may be getting more from Michael in the divorce then she’s saying. She’s being vague. I feel like Michael’s money is shady somehow.

Ashley and Luke are a stupid couple. Her saying she was falling in love with him is pretty lame. Luke is a fuck boy he was not planning on settling down with a single mother of 2. He also is not rich enough for Ashley lol.

Jason and Gizelle is fake as hell to me. If Gizelle somehow shows up on Winter House I’m out of here lol. I doubt that tho. Gizelle gives off an asexual vibe to me. All her relationships seem so fake.

I agree. I’m guessing Ashley will do better in the divorce than she’s indicated. I don’t think anyone has filed yet have they?  I wouldn’t be shocked if they reunite. 

[amarante]

I don't think Ashley is entitled to that much in terms of a settlement agreement for Ashley OR spousal support.

Spousal support is almost never given especially when the spouse seeking support is working and so can support themselves.

Shannon Beador on OC had been married for many years and her husband had some amount of money. She walked away with only $1 million or so. However she did receive very generous child support payments - as I recall they added up to about $250,000 per year. Of course they end at a certain point - generally 18 but more affluent people receive child support through college for the kids since college is assumed to be part of normal expectations.

However, I do agree that Ashley is being deliberately vague about exactly how much money Michael is going to be paying her. 

Where Ashley is not really understanding the concept of generational wealth is that you accumulate assets instead of debts. In other words, you do NOT buy a house with a $13,000 mortgage payment plus high taxes and high maintenance expenses. You buy a modest home and then invest as much as possible. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by amarante

[Chatty Cake]

1 hour ago, amarante said:

I don't think Ashley is entitled to that much in terms of a settlement agreement for Ashley OR spousal support.

Spousal support is almost never given especially when the spouse seeking support is working and so can support themselves.

Shannon Beador on OC had been married for many years and her husband had some amount of money. She walked away with only $1 million or so. However she did receive very generous child support payments - as I recall they added up to about $250,000 per year. Of course they end at a support point.

However, I do agree that Ashley is being deliberately vague about exactly how much money Michael is going to be paying her. 

Where Ashley is not really understanding the concept of generational wealth is that you accumulate assets instead of debts. In other words, you do NOT buy a house with a $13,000 mortgage payment plus high taxes and high maintenance expenses. You buy a modest home and then invest as much as possible. 

Agree but I don’t think Candiace will come out that much ahead of Ashley. She also overspent on her house for someone with a husband who works off and on. Wasting money on embryos and music videos. I will say this for Candiace, I heard she rehearses all these “reads” she likes to dish out. I thought she was coming up with this stuff on her own so she may be a slightly better actress than I thought.

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Chatty Cake

[Salacious Kitty]

7 hours ago, Chatty Cake said:

I agree. I’m guessing Ashley will do better in the divorce than she’s indicated. I don’t think anyone has filed yet have they?  I wouldn’t be shocked if they reunite. 

Ashley said in Part 1 that she was filing in February. Well, February is almost over, and nothing's been filed. 

[drivethroo]

4 minutes ago, Chatty Cake said:

Agree but I don’t think Candiace will come out that much ahead of Ashley. She also overspent on her house for someone with a husband who works off and on.

No. Candiace’s house was about a million and I think she bought the home at a “discount”…I believe the home had several price decreases before she bought it. Candiace & her mom are real estate investors…she wouldn’t have bought that house if it was a bad investment. Candiace has several other income streams besides this show and the singing & acting. She, Wendy, Karen and Gizelle are the cast members who will be fine if this show ended today. 

Gizelle also made a great investment with her house. It’s ugly but it’s in a prime location and a large lot. She bought it at $900K and it’s probably worth $2 million now.

You mention Chris not working but here is where Candiace and Ashley differ: Candiace is not dependent on Chris for this house and she’s actually not dependent on Dorothy either.  It doesn’t matter if Chris works or not —Candiace will keep that home either way.

Ashley is totally dependent on Michael to keep that house and because it’s not in her name, she has no real incentive to hustle to pay the $13K mortgage. If RHOP ended today, she’ll just whine to Michael to pay the mortgage and use the children to justify it. 

Robyn is the one who might need to call Kim Zolciak for tips because if BRAVO gives her the boot or severely reduces her pay and Juan gets fired, they’ll be back at the townhouse. If her home is where I think it is, people wanting a million dollar home aren’t really trying to look over there. Robyn better hope BRAVO brings her back to tap dance on the table next season or she will back at the townhouse very soon.

Candiace will be fine. Ashley needs to worry about her own economic situation instead of watching Candiace’s pockets.

 

[Chatty Cake]

1 hour ago, drivethroo said:

No. Candiace’s house was about a million and I think she bought the home at a “discount”…I believe the home had several price decreases before she bought it. Candiace & her mom are real estate investors…she wouldn’t have bought that house if it was a bad investment. Candiace has several other income streams besides this show and the singing & acting. She, Wendy, Karen and Gizelle are the cast members who will be fine if this show ended today. 

Gizelle also made a great investment with her house. It’s ugly but it’s in a prime location and a large lot. She bought it at $900K and it’s probably worth $2 million now.

You mention Chris not working but here is where Candiace and Ashley differ: Candiace is not dependent on Chris for this house and she’s actually not dependent on Dorothy either.  It doesn’t matter if Chris works or not —Candiace will keep that home either way.

Ashley is totally dependent on Michael to keep that house and because it’s not in her name, she has no real incentive to hustle to pay the $13K mortgage. If RHOP ended today, she’ll just whine to Michael to pay the mortgage and use the children to justify it. 

Robyn is the one who might need to call Kim Zolciak for tips because if BRAVO gives her the boot or severely reduces her pay and Juan gets fired, they’ll be back at the townhouse. If her home is where I think it is, people wanting a million dollar home aren’t really trying to look over there. Robyn better hope BRAVO brings her back to tap dance on the table next season or she will back at the townhouse very soon.

Candiace will be fine. Ashley needs to worry about her own economic situation instead of watching Candiace’s pockets.

 

Hopefully Ashley saved some of her Bravo checks. It’s not necessarily bad to not invest in stuff like true hue or waste money on videos that nobody watches or waste money on expensive embryos and iffy real estate.

While Candiace may not rely on the Sneaky Link for income, he should still have something coming in. 

[amarante]

2 hours ago, drivethroo said:

No. Candiace’s house was about a million and I think she bought the home at a “discount”…I believe the home had several price decreases before she bought it. Candiace & her mom are real estate investors…she wouldn’t have bought that house if it was a bad investment. Candiace has several other income streams besides this show and the singing & acting. She, Wendy, Karen and Gizelle are the cast members who will be fine if this show ended today. 

Gizelle also made a great investment with her house. It’s ugly but it’s in a prime location and a large lot. She bought it at $900K and it’s probably worth $2 million now.

 

Candiace also has an MBA which translates into her being able to get a high level "regular" job if it came to that. And presumably she also learned stuff which would help her manage her own business and economic interests.

Ashley has literally nothing when the BRAVO check ends except social media or the ability to get another sugar daddy and Michael's checks.

Somewhat morbid but when Candiace's parents die she and her sibling (not sure if she has more than a sister) will inherit their parents' wealth. 

I don't know what each of the housewives homes cost but based on a $13,000 mortgage payment, Ashley's home is at least $2,500,000 which is more than twice as much as Candiace's home. 

[Chatty Cake]

9 minutes ago, amarante said:

Candiace also has an MBA which translates into her being able to get a high level "regular" job if it came to that. And presumably she also learned stuff which would help her manage her own business and economic interests.

Ashley has literally nothing when the BRAVO check ends except social media or the ability to get another sugar daddy and Michael's checks.

Somewhat morbid but when Candiace's parents die she and her sibling (not sure if she has more than a sister) will inherit their parents' wealth. 

I don't know what each of the housewives homes cost but based on a $13,000 mortgage payment, Ashley's home is at least $2,500,000 which is more than twice as much as Candiace's home. 

Ashley had two children with Michael and that should keep her going for years without having to work. I don’t see her being broke. I also don’t see Candiace working a regular job. She sees herself as a singer and is blowing money on pricey embryos and music videos. Did her and the Sneaky Link do a prenup? Is Candiace making better choices than Ashley? Probably but Michael is rich and Sneaky doesn’t seem to want to work and has multiple kids. She probably could have chosen a better husband.

[amarante]

20 minutes ago, Chatty Cake said:

Ashley had two children with Michael and that should keep her going for years without having to work. I don’t see her being broke. I also don’t see Candiace working a regular job. She sees herself as a singer and is blowing money on pricey embryos and music videos. Did her and the Sneaky Link do a prenup? Is Candiace making better choices than Ashley? Probably but Michael is rich and Sneaky doesn’t seem to want to work and has multiple kids. She probably could have chosen a better husband.

Yes she will get child support so she won't be destitute for the next 20 years but she also won't be living the kind of high life she thinks she is entitled to based solely on child support. So she gets $20,000 per month - that isn't a whole lot in the scheme of things. There are plenty of women who go broke after the child support runs out.

While I don't see Candiace in a standard job, my point is that she has the education and resume to be employed at high level very well paying positions. There are all kinds of organizations which need people with business acumen plus high profile. These are the kinds of people who are run foundations or other stuff. Also business agents put together deals and most of them have business degrees. Entirely possible to take her business/education smarts and combine them with her high profile entertainment background and make a lot of money. 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by amarante

[Stats Queen]

3 hours ago, Chatty Cake said:

Ashley had two children with Michael and that should keep her going for years without having to work. I don’t see her being broke. I also don’t see Candiace working a regular job. She sees herself as a singer and is blowing money on pricey embryos and music videos. Did her and the Sneaky Link do a prenup? Is Candiace making better choices than Ashley? Probably but Michael is rich and Sneaky doesn’t seem to want to work and has multiple kids. She probably could have chosen a better husband.

Ashley should not be relying on children support for her future. Once the kids are adults, that is over. Ashley is not doing anything to create income for herself. Even Robyn has ventured out to make her own money. Ashley should be looking for an ordinary job.

I don’t personally know Candiace or her husband Chris, so I would never infer anything about what they will and will not do let alone what their motives are.

She is investing in her music carrier which may or may not take off successfully in the long run. That’s a risk all musicians and entertainers take. It a tough job and a lot of work.

Why do you think she blowing her money on embryos?  I sure wish I had known that I would have had fertility issues before it was too late. I wish I had known and had the money to do what Candiace was able to do. If I did, they I might have had the children I always wanted.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Stats Queen

[pasdetrois]

14 hours ago, amarante said:

While I don't see Candiace in a standard job, my point is that she has the education and resume to be employed at high level very well paying positions. There are all kinds of organizations which need people with business acumen plus high profile. High-paying DC careers tend to require a lot of technical knowledge.

I applaud Candiace getting her MBA, but let's face it, the labor market is awash in them. I remember the great push to get them beginning in the 80s. The most in-demand career in DC is cybersecurity/national security.

Also, at least in the DC metro area, there are tens of thousands of extremely bright young people slogging away at a profession - politics, journalism, trade associations, law, government contracting - building skill sets and connections. Candiace is not doing that; she is taking a risk on an entertainment career. She would not be able to jump into a new field and make the kind of money she expects, unless a friend or relative gives her a break. I've seen a lot of those breaks come and go, such as political appointees. They tend to be flashes in the pan.

Edited February 27, 2023 by pasdetrois

[amarante]

3 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

I applaud Candiace getting her MBA, but let's face it, the labor market is awash in them. I remember the great push to get them beginning in the 80s. The most in-demand career in DC is cybersecurity/national security.

Also, at least in the DC metro area, there are tens of thousands of extremely bright young people slogging away at a profession - politics, journalism, trade associations, law, government contracting - building skill sets and connections. Candiace is not doing that; she is taking a risk on an entertainment career. She would not be able to jump into a new field and make the kind of money she expects, unless a friend or relative gives her a break. I've seen a lot of those breaks come and go, such as political appointees. They tend to be flashes in the pan.

My point is that Candiace has a viable future earning a living. Certainly someone with an MBA as well as investment properties is going to be more likely to be able  to support herself and family comfortably even without the bravo paycheck or if her entertainment career doesn’t take off. Most people with her background and credentials do just fine 

Contrast that with Ashley who has no means of support other than BRAVO and child support

[byrd]

22 hours ago, drivethroo said:

No. Candiace’s house was about a million and I think she bought the home at a “discount”…I believe the home had several price decreases before she bought it. Candiace & her mom are real estate investors…she wouldn’t have bought that house if it was a bad investment. Candiace has several other income streams besides this show and the singing & acting. She, Wendy, Karen and Gizelle are the cast members who will be fine if this show ended today. 

Gizelle also made a great investment with her house. It’s ugly but it’s in a prime location and a large lot. She bought it at $900K and it’s probably worth $2 million now.

You mention Chris not working but here is where Candiace and Ashley differ: Candiace is not dependent on Chris for this house and she’s actually not dependent on Dorothy either.  It doesn’t matter if Chris works or not —Candiace will keep that home either way.

Ashley is totally dependent on Michael to keep that house and because it’s not in her name, she has no real incentive to hustle to pay the $13K mortgage. If RHOP ended today, she’ll just whine to Michael to pay the mortgage and use the children to justify it. 

Robyn is the one who might need to call Kim Zolciak for tips because if BRAVO gives her the boot or severely reduces her pay and Juan gets fired, they’ll be back at the townhouse. If her home is where I think it is, people wanting a million dollar home aren’t really trying to look over there. Robyn better hope BRAVO brings her back to tap dance on the table next season or she will back at the townhouse very soon.

Candiace will be fine. Ashley needs to worry about her own economic situation instead of watching Candiace’s pockets.

 

One thing for sure Dorothy is not going to let Candiace fall, that's her safety net and in my opinion there is nothing wrong with that.

[retired watcher]

I've given up. I couldn't get through the season and couldn't watch more than 10 minutes of this mess.