S31.E10: Semi-Finals

[Melonie77]

The mirrorball competition heats up as the six remaining contestants head into the “Semi-Finals.” Each couple will perform two all-new routines as they fight for a spot in the finale!

Hosts Tyra Banks and Alfonso Ribeiro will walk out to “Sweet Lovin’” by Sigala & Bryn Christopher. Throughout the evening, each couple will perform one final ballroom dance style and one final Latin dance style (that they’ve not yet performed) as they battle it out for scores and votes in hopes of earning a spot in the finale.

At the end of the “Semi-Finals,” there will be a double elimination which will determine the four contestants who will move on to the finale.

The couples (along with their dance styles and songs) are the following:

Round 1:
Actor and singer Wayne Brady and pro Witney Carson will perform a Paso Doble to “Beggin’” by Måneskin

TikTok star Charli D’Amelio and pro Mark Ballas will perform a Viennese Waltz to “Glimpse of Us” by Joji

TV star Trevor Donovan and pro Emma Slater will perform a Cha Cha to “Satisfied” by Galantis ft. MAX

Daniel Durant  (Oscar®-winning “CODA”) and pro Britt Stewart will perform a Viennese Waltz to “Surprise Yourself” by Jack Garratt

Drag queen superstar Shangela and pro Gleb Savchenko will perform a Paso Doble to “The Edge of Glory” by Lady Gaga

Gabby Windey (“The Bachelorette”) and pro Val Chmerkovskiy will perform a Waltz to “I’m Kissing You” by Des’ree

Round 2:
Actor and singer Wayne Brady and pro Witney Carson will perform a Viennese Waltz to “It’s A Man’s Man’s Man’s World” by James Brown

TikTok star Charli D’Amelio and pro Mark Ballas will perform a Paso Doble to “Espana Cani” by Pascual Marquina

TV star Trevor Donovan and pro Emma Slater will perform a Viennese Waltz to “Count On Me” by Judah Kelly

Daniel Durant  (Oscar®-winning “CODA”) and pro Britt Stewart will perform a Samba to “Light It Up (Remix)” by Major Lazer ft. Nyla & Fuse ODG

Drag queen superstar Shangela and pro Gleb Savchenko will perform a Viennese Waltz to “I Have Nothing” by Whitney Houston

Gabby Windey (“The Bachelorette”) and pro Val Chmerkovskiy will perform a Paso Doble to “Malagueña” by Brian Setzer

Edited November 14, 2022 by Melonie77

[Melonie77]

 We've got a great group of 6 dancers going into the semi-finals! They are all likeable, have worked hard and are actually the best dancers of the season. I think this might be one of the rare times the very best dancers all make it this far! I'm guessing Daniel and Trevor will be the ones to go tomorrow.

Quoting this comment from the previous thread...

On 11/9/2022 at 3:11 PM, LadyMustang65 said:

So I found a chart with all the dances they've done so far.  There's been more variety than I thought but still some things seem a bit weird.  Five out of the 8 couples dancing last night have done both contemporary and jazz, including Charli, and those were her specialties when she was competing.  Shangela and Vinny had done jazz but not contemporary.  Gabby strangely enough has not done either.

I too thought there was something weird about which dances the couples have performed or not so far this season. With so much messing around with the rules and blatant favoritism shown over the years I'm always alert to any signs of shady behavior!
Gabby's list of dances performed in particular is what alerted me to something being off. She and Val have definitely not done either contemporary nor jazz and I had been looking forward to seeing her attempt the creativity those 2 dances allow. Yet there have been other contestants who have done at least one if not both of those dance types, a fact which may have been beneficial to them (Charli and Shangela).

This week Gabby has been assigned a Waltz and Paso Doble. If she makes it through to the finals are they going to assign her a contemporary or jazz number at that late date?

I thought I remembered the show assigning each dancer one of only two types of dances each week starting with the easier ones earlier in the season (I think I recall them starting with Fox Trot and Cha Cha Cha.)
Poor Trevor was the only one who got stuck with the Quick Step for the first week of this season.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Melonie77

[Melonie77]

After doing some internet sleuthing today I think I found out how Charli ended up on DWTS. It appears that Derek has known her for years and campaigned to get her on the show by suggesting she be cast during interviews for over a year now.
Derek has known Charli and her family since they attended one of his shows when she was 11 years old. He trained and danced with her in his special this past March and has worked with her on other dance projects as far back as at least January 2020.

I'm guessing the producers hoped her involvement would draw younger viewers just like they anticipated when they cast JoJo but both girls are too well trained for DWTS.

Charli said she knew she would be doing DWTS when she was interviewed about the Hough dance special (ABC Disney) in 3/2022 so the plans were in the works for a while.
As most people know Derek and Mark are very old and good friends who trained together in the same studio since childhood. Mark's sudden return to the show to become Charli's pro looks like planned favoritism and preferential treatment.

I do not recall Charli's history with Derek ever being discussed on the show which appears to support a lack of transparency.

This all seems quite incestuous to me.
Charli is too much of a professional to be on DWTS and at the very least I think Derek should NOT have been allowed to judge a season with Charli competing.

Here's some of the info I found...

▶There are video clips on TikTok from January/February 2020 showing Derek working with Charli.
Here is one of the 2020 clips:

Charli and her sister got Derek involved in TikTok and he now has an account with a huge following.

▶Derek began promoting the idea of Charli doing DWTS in 2021 or possibly earlier:

Derek Hough Admits He’d Love To See Charli D’Amelio Compete On ‘Dancing With The Stars’: ‘She’d Be Awesome’
https://hollywoodlife.com/2021/07/12/derek-hough-charli-damelio-dancing-with-the-stars/?utm_source=related-article&utm_pageType=article-with-linked-gallery

▶Derek and Julianne Hough asked Charli to dance in their ABC/Disney dance special Step into the Movies for their recreation of a dance from Dirty Dancing.
Here is the dance they performed for this special:

Both Derek and Julianne gush over Charli behind the scenes of this tv special.🤷🏻‍♀️

▶Another article about the dance special and the Hough/Charli involvement:
Derek Hough Went Into ‘Coach-Mode’ With Charli D’Amelio For Their Iconic ‘Dirty Dancing’ Number
https://hollywoodlife.com/2022/03/18/derek-hough-step-into-the-movies-special-charli-damelio-dirty-dancing/

------------------------------------------

I'm lookin forward to Mark's choreography for their finale but I hope Charli does not win. I would rather see Shangela, Gabby or Wayne take first place.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Melonie77

[White Dog]

11 hours ago, Melonie77 said:

 lookin forward to Mark's choreography for their finale but I hope Charli does not win.

  People like to watch this team but don't want to support them, good to know.  I for one am grateful there's outstanding dancing on this show or else there really isn't a reason for me to watch.

[White Dog]

12 hours ago, Melonie77 said:

with her on other dance projects as far back as at least January 2020. I

It's laughable to think a tic tok 15 sec piece is coaching - if anything it's Derek in Charli's world. 

The Beauty and the Beast dance that Zendaya did with Derek a year before her competing on DWTS is more on the nose as coaching Ballroom dancing.  

Edited November 14, 2022 by White Dog

[White Dog]

13 hours ago, Melonie77 said:

Gabby's list of dances performed in particular is what alerted me to something being off. She and Val have definitely not done either contemporary nor jazz and I had been looking forward to seeing her attempt the creativity those 2 dances allow.

My thought is Val knows he can't do contemporary or jazz like Mark, (his wife Jenna who usually helps in that department may not have been available due to her advancing pregnancy) and Val and didn't want to have his choreography compared to Mark, especially when Mark has a celebrity who can actually execute the movement.  So, for his celebrity he felt more comfortable doing the dances he does best.  It's probably good strategically because if they get into the finales, it will be the opportunity to see jazz or contemporary which would be considered new.  Anything unexpected can be memorable if danced well.

Shangela did Jazz and Charleston, so she actually got two fun dances that were not Ballroom or Latin.  Both were simplistic but very personality driven which is right up her alley.

Edited November 14, 2022 by White Dog

[Melonie77]

🤣Carrie Ann and her obsession with lifts.......

‘Dancing With the Stars’ Judge Carrie Ann Inaba Issues a Warning to Season 31 Semi-Finalists: ‘Keep the Rules in Mind’
https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/dwts-carrie-ann-inaba-warns-semi-finalists-about-the-rules/

[peachmangosteen]

Quote

As has been mentioned by several commenters here, it is not that she had training but the level and degree of the training. 

I don't even care about that personally. There have been tons of people on this show with dance training, hell even ones that could easily be considered pro dancers. But, to my knowledge, there has never been a contestant that previously danced professionally with one of the current judges. That's blatantly ridiculous.

59 minutes ago, Melonie77 said:

🤣Carrie Ann and her obsession with lifts.......

‘Dancing With the Stars’ Judge Carrie Ann Inaba Issues a Warning to Season 31 Semi-Finalists: ‘Keep the Rules in Mind’
https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/dwts-carrie-ann-inaba-warns-semi-finalists-about-the-rules/

It's so silly that she still pretends like this is a real competition lol.

[Melonie77]

49 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

It's so silly that she still pretends like this is a real competition lol.

Yeah, I guess it's her special gimmick she wants to be known for - the Lift Police on DWTS!
I always wondered why none of the other judges ever say a word about it nor seem to care at all if there is a lift!🤣
Carrie Ann is actually calling out the pro when she complains about lifts so it's not really fair that she subtracts points.

[CraftyHazel]

This is as much a popularity contest as a dance competition, honestly, so I don’t understand the point in getting bent out of shape because we don’t all like the same thing or the same people.  I don’t like Charli.  Is she a good dancer?  Sure.  But IF this show was actually about taking a celebrity who is an amateur dancer and turning them into a confident and competent dancer, Charli shouldn’t be competing.  I also find her connection to Derek to be unfair, if this was honestly about turning a celebrity into a dancer.  And TikTok-ers and Bachelor(ette) contestants aren’t celebrities, either, in my book.  So maybe the show should stop being a competitive one and turn it into just a showcase, and call itself “Dancing With People You May or May Not Have Heard Of or Give a Damn About…Now Without the Stress of Voting!”

It’s completely obvious they want Daniel and Trevor gone, with their low scores.  I’m sad about that, for Trevor especially.  I don’t think he’s a win-worthy contestant, but he tries, he’s improved immensely, he has a wonderful attitude, and he seems to be having a great time.  

[Phebemarie]

I think Wayne's scores tonight have been suspiciously low, as well.  

[funnygirl]

The judges wetting themselves over Charli is gross, especially when they completely disregard her professional dance training and act like she's just naturally good. It's just not fair, period. Every other contestant is at a disadvantage, whether they're an entertainer and quick to pick up choreography or not. The technique is what is hard to nail, and Charli never has an issue with it because she's…say it with me now…TRAINED. Mark is essentially dancing with a pro. 

So who are we all voting for next week to knock the ringer out? lol 

With Len retiring from the show after this season, I wonder if that means Derek will be the permanent third judge.

Edited November 15, 2022 by funnygirl

[Stats Queen]

19 minutes ago, Phebemarie said:

I think Wayne's scores tonight have been suspiciously low, as well.  

I do too. They way they were blatantly promoting Charli (IMO) did not plead me.

Lady Gaga telling people to vote for Shangela 👏🏻😀

[CraftyHazel]

18 minutes ago, funnygirl said:

What's the connection to Derek? 

See above in this thread.  They have performed together, he’s been a family friend since she was a pre-teen, and he basically recruited her to be on the show.  It’s kind of ridiculous.

[funnygirl]

4 minutes ago, CraftyHazel said:

See above in this thread.  They have performed together, he’s been a family friend since she was a pre-teen, and he basically recruited her to be on the show.  It’s kind of ridiculous.

I saw, thanks!

If Charli wins, what very little integrity this show has will go out the window. 

[vibeology]

The very best part of this episode were who I assume were AJ MacLean's daughters waving and dancing in their seats pulling focus from Tyra. Anything that takes focus away from her is welcome.

[White Dog]

So glad Charli and Mark made the finals. They are amazing and proved it again with two outstanding Latin and Ballroom dances, my favourite Viennese Waltz and Paso Doble ever by a celebrity partnership. Mark went completely old school which was unexpected but amazing at the same time, because it went back to the fundamentals of ballroom and Latin and why it’s so important to the beauty of the genre. 
 

48 minutes ago, Phebemarie said:

I think Wayne's scores tonight have been suspiciously low, as well.  

I think they had been too generous with Wayne and tonight’s scores were more in line with how he’s been dancing lately including tonight. 

1 hour ago, CraftyHazel said:

It’s completely obvious they want Daniel and Trevor gone, with their low scores.  I’m sad about that, for Trevor especially.  I don’t think he’s a win-worthy contestant, but he tries, he’s improved immensely, he has a wonderful attitude, and he seems to be having a great time.  

Trevor tries but he’s just not that good. His fans kept him around long past his expiry.

[Gigi43]

28 minutes ago, vibeology said:

The very best part of this episode were who I assume were AJ MacLean's daughters waving and dancing in their seats pulling focus from Tyra. Anything that takes focus away from her is welcome.

Hah I kept thinking Tyra's not gonna be happy with them bonus that they were cute and just enjoying themselves. 

Sad to see Len is leaving, I could make jokes about leaving a sinking ship but he probably does want to just enjoy retirement. As he should. Congrats to Witney too!

I thought Wayne was under scored but he made it and Charlie is winning anyone. Gleb seems to really enjoy being Shangela's partner and it's nice to see, as an occasional viewer of past seasons he was never really on my radar. Shangela is so much fun. 

Trevor and Daniel were obviously going to go but I feel they're the 2 that represents the original idea of learning to dance the most and did well. Asking Trevor if he wanted to say anything to Emma was a bit weird, like they were hoping he'd announce they're dating (so glad that didn't happen when the divorce isn't done afaik and it still seemed more of an act for votes.)

Edited November 15, 2022 by Gigi43

[Melonie77]

I paused the show on my laptop to try to take a screen shot of something and couldn't get it started again.

So who went home? Was it Trevor and Daniel?

Who was the bottom one who went out first? And which dancers were the other 2 lowest scores?

Thanks to anyone who can fill me in.

[LadyMustang65]

On 11/13/2022 at 10:12 PM, Melonie77 said:

 I thought I remembered the show assigning each dancer one of only two types of dances each week starting with the easier ones earlier in the season (I think I recall them starting with Fox Trot and Cha Cha Cha.)
Poor Trevor was the only one who got stuck with the Quick Step for the first week of this season.

That is the way they did it for years.  As they got into the later weeks, there might be 3 different styles.  And NO contemporary or jazz, which are my two least favorite styles on the show.  I get enough of that from SYTYCD.  Instead, we'd get things like the Charleston, Lindy Hop, swing, jitterbug, mambo, etc.  Or there would be the fusion dances where they'd have to combine two different dance styles.  The trio dances were fun, too.  I miss those.

2 minutes ago, Melonie77 said:

I paused the show on my laptop to try to take a screen shot of something and couldn't get it started again.

So who went home? Was it Trevor and Daniel?

Who was the bottom one who went out first? And which dancers were the other 2 lowest scores?

Thanks to anyone who can fill me in.

It was Trevor and Daniel who left, something I think everyone knew was going to happen after last week.  Trevor was the bottom one who went out first.  The judges then unanimously voted to keep Shangela over Daniel.  No big surprise Charli, Gabby, and Wayne all got through.  They've been at the top or near the top in the judge's scoring every week.

[LadyMustang65]

Well, I predicated last week that Trevor and Daniel would go.  No big surprise there, but I am sorry to see them go.  I think this is the first time we've had all "ringers" (of varying degrees) in the final.  I'm rooting for Shangela to take it all.  Her dance experience is mostly the bump-and-grind type, and she's just such a joy!  So much fun to watch, and she goes out there week after week and gives it her all.  Plus, she's made me like Gleb, and that alone makes me want to see her win.  <lol>

Wayne - I thought his paso was good but not great and was fairly scored.  His waltz was beautiful, though, and I think he should have gotten at least one more 10.  It seemed like the judges were looking for reasons to not give him a 10.

Daniel - I thought both of his dances were very nice and scored fairly.  He really has improved over the course of the show and works so hard.  Plus he has a great attitude.  

Shangela - This has been a great partnership.  I have actively disliked Gleb most seasons, but he's like a completely different person (in a good way) with Shangela. I think his choreography has been better with her, too.  I thought her paso was great, and her waltz was gorgeous.  Again, it felt like they were looking for reasons to underscore her.

Charli - I will give credit where due - her waltz was the first dance of hers that I have really loved.  Not only was it danced beautifully, it felt like there was genuine emotion behind it.  Her paso was less successful for me, as again I felt like she was back to making faces rather than actually emoting.  Can't fault her actual dancing, but I am way past over with the judges' absurd praise.  They know her background, and this is exactly what people expected would happen and why so many believe she should not have been cast as a contestant.  It seems clear from her packages that she picks up the steps very quickly and that most of her practice time is spent in perfecting technique.  She already had the feet, legs, and arms down pat from her extensive dance training.  And the spins that she did tonight were straight out of her competitions.  So, of course, she looks like a professional after 9 weeks of training every day.  Yet the judges act so shocked!  What would be shocking was if she didn't look like a professional by now.  So ugh.  I said before the show started that I expected her to win, and I still feel that way.  I would love to be wrong, though.

Trevor - He was the one I was most excited to see since I'm a big fan of his from Hallmark movies.  He worked hard and got better and went from nothing to doing a very creditable job.  He and Emma made for a great partnership, and I hope he's really proud of what he has accomplished.  Would have loved to have seen him and Daniel both make it to the finals, as they are the kind of contestants I tune in to watch.  So, well done, Trevor!

Gabby - I enjoyed both of her dances and was not at all surprised she got perfect scores just like Charli.  The show seems to consider them the two best dancers and are trying to build a rivalry between them.  I thought it was "interesting" that she and Charli were the only ones who got traditional paso music, which adds to the performance aspect.  Definite favoritism on the part of the showrunners for those two.  

So next week I expect Mark's freestyle will be one for the books.  Since Charli is at a professional level, he can pull out all the stops.  It should be great to watch, but I don't want her to win.  Val has been hit-or-miss with his freestyles, but he's got a capable partner, so hopefully it will be a hit this time.  No idea what kind of a freestyle Gleb will do.  I don't think he's ever made it to the finals before.  If he's smart and plays to Shangela's strengths and showmanship, it could be really fun to watch.  We know Witney can choreograph a good freestyle as well, but I expect it will lean towards a hip hop style that suits Wayne.  Right now, I am rooting for Shangela to win.  I just love everything about her.  

Congratulations to Witney on her pregnancy, and farewell to Len!  Enjoy your retirement!

1 hour ago, White Dog said:

Trevor tries but he’s just not that good. His fans kept him around long past his expiry.

I don't think that's fair to say.  He was in the bottom two twice before tonight, and the judges saved him both times, so it wasn't his fans keeping him around.  And I disagree he was around "long past his expiry."  He came in with zero dance experience, worked hard, steadily improved, didn't complain, and had a great partnership with Emma.  I can't think of anyone who was really better than he was who went home before him.

[Melonie77]

I agree with those who found the worshipping and gushing over Charli tonight to be super cringeworthy and way over the top. I felt like viewers were being manipulated and even gaslighted.
Carrie Ann was absolutely ridiculous  claiming that what Charli was doing was so difficult....she's a highly trained dancer of course she can pick up more intricate choreography.

I've always liked Derek but I feel disappointed in him now and I no longer trust him. He sat there and heaped praise on Charlie and his best buddy Mark - all season he has been doing this yet I don't recall him ever admitting he had danced in a professional televised event with Charli.
It felt phony especially when he said she was the first celebrity on the show to look like a ballroom dancer. I don't agree with that at all and I think it was insulting to all the exceptional contestants the show has hosted over the years.

So we've debated here about whether Charli's fanbase was translating into a lot of votes on this show. I had thought perhaps they were NOT since her mother ended up in the bottom several times and left despite good scores.
Tonight I thought the dramatic and over-the-top praise for Charli means she IS getting the votes and the show is preparing viewers for her to win - I think there has been more than the usual backlash over her ringer/professional status. I also noticed they tried to handle this a little bit tonight when Alphonso questioned her about the difficulty of doing ballroom even with a background in dance.

Gabby brought up something about feeling inadequate next to Charli and I totally understood where she was coming from. She's a beautiful dancer but I think she feels she has no chance competing next to a pro. Trevor also mentioned he had no experience with choreography. Why pitch a cast up against someone like Charli? Who is going to want to do this show anymore if they continue to bring on young professionally trained dancers?

Perhaps the show should try some of their little tricks to make sure someone other than their pet contestant wins next week in order to avoid as much backlash as possible.

And why is it that they seem to want her to win so badly? Any one of the other finalists would make a great winner and a more acceptable one. I wonder if the show really needs Derek now that Len is leaving and they are are pandering to him and the 'star' he thinks he discovered? I also am willing to bet Charli will start joining Derek as a dancer in more of his shows. Doesn't he have a Vegas one? Perhaps this was all about cultivating a new dancer for the Hough troupe.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Melonie77

[LadyMustang65]

1 hour ago, funnygirl said:

So who are we all voting for next week to knock the ringer out? lol 

With Len retiring from the show after this season, I wonder if that means Derek will be the permanent third judge.

Speaking for myself, I'll be voting for Shangela.  Probably Wayne.  Maybe Gabby.  Not Charli.

It seems like they've had the 4-judge panel for several seasons now, so I'm wondering if we'll see Max or one of the other pros come back as a fourth judge.  Also wondering who will end up being the head judge.  It would seem based on seniority that it should be either Carrie Anne or Bruno, but based on dance cred, it should be Derek.  Unless they bring in someone from the ballroom dance world specifically to take over that spot.

[White Dog]

Charli isn't ballroom trained.  That's why the judges are so astounded at her ability.  As I've been saying no one who has dance training who has come on this show has ever performed as well as Charli.  It's so great that Len got to see a dancer who took his breath away before he retires. 

11 minutes ago, LadyMustang65 said:

I don't think that's fair to say.  He was in the bottom two twice before tonight, and the judges saved him both times, so it wasn't his fans keeping him around.  And I disagree he was around "long past his expiry."  

Jordin Sparks fans would like a word. 

[Melonie77]

7 minutes ago, White Dog said:

Charli isn't ballroom trained.  That's why the judges are so astounded at her ability.  As I've been saying no one who has dance training who has come on this show has ever performed as well as Charli.  It's so great that Len got to see a dancer who took his breath away before he retires. 

It’s like seeing two pros executing Marks vision and it skews the competition far too much.

[nickp1991]

 Bravo to Daniel and Trevor for both doing so well and having great journeys throughout this season

[Phebemarie]

I think the judges have forgotten about Meryl when they say a certain young lady is the best dancer ever on DWTS.

[White Dog]

7 minutes ago, Melonie77 said:

It’s like seeing two pros executing Marks vision and it skews the competition far too much.

Correction. it's not two pros, it's a competition dancer who wants to become pro and during this show Charli has grown a lot under Mark's teaching.  She's so much better than I thought she was going to be. She's probably the best dancer this show has had 

[Melonie77]

I thought Charli and Mark's Paso Doble was technically excellent but I think I've finally realized what I don't like about her dancing. I'm not sure if I can explain it though. I look at her compared to Daniela who dances so beautifully and for me Charli falls way below her level. It's as if Charli gets all the steps but there is no real musicality to her performances.
She seems to be missing something that Len calls being "oily" - like a machine that is well oiled and all parts are running well... translated into having a lot of rhythmic fluidity, flexible motion and a certain finesse and flair to every movement of all parts.
I think it's an old fashioned term. I once heard my father use it while watching DWTS with me. I didn't think he was paying much attention when all of a sudden he said "wow that guy's very oily!" when Val started dancing! If I had not heard Len use the word before I would have thought my Dad was nuts but I knew what he meant even if I still can't exactly describe it!🤣
I think Charli is also missing swagger.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Melonie77

[FilmTVGeek80]

15 minutes ago, White Dog said:

Correction. it's not two pros, it's a competition dancer who wants to become pro and during this show Charli has grown a lot under Mark's teaching.  She's so much better than I thought she was going to be. She's probably the best dancer this show has had 

That wouldn't exactly be shocking considering all the training she's had. She's a pro who just hasn't made it official yet. I've seen absolutely no growth. She started out excellent and stayed that way. And, weren't you complaining about what a ringer Charli was at the beginning of the season? I'm not sure what's changed.

45 minutes ago, Melonie77 said:

I've always liked Derek but I feel disappointed in him now and I no longer trust him. He sat there and heaped praise on Charlie and his best buddy Mark - all season he has been doing this yet I don't recall him ever admitting he had danced in a professional televised event with Charli.
It felt phony especially when he said she was the first celebrity on the show to look like a ballroom dancer. I don't agree with that at all and I think it was insulting to all the exceptional contestants the show has hosted over the years.

It was infuriating, especially now knowing Derek's history with her. It was like the judges were all competing to see who could climb farthest up her butt. I think it was a close race between Derek and Carrie-Ann. I would almost give Carrie-Ann the edge because of that dumb hug, but Derek's two-facedness when it comes to her, gives him the edge. I think I'm going to do myself a favor and skip the judges' comments for her next week, though I'm not sure how much more over-the-top they can get with basically anointing her the best ever.

18 minutes ago, Phebemarie said:

I think the judges have forgotten about Meryl when they say a certain young lady is the best dancer ever on DWTS.

I always considered Meryl a ringer just like Charli. Not surprising that two of the people bandied about as being the best dancers had such a significant leg up on the competition. 

[White Dog]

4 minutes ago, Melonie77 said:

Mel was far better than Charli.

Nah.  I refused to watch that season because I knew Davis would win.  She dances like an ice skater.  She doesn't have the feet that Charli has 

[nickp1991]

Derek would be bumped up to head judge moved to Len's seat and then the third seat would be taken by the new judge

Edited November 15, 2022 by nickp1991

[LexieLily]

1 hour ago, Gigi43 said:

Sad to see Len is leaving, I could make jokes about leaving a sinking ship but he probably does want to just enjoy retirement. As he should. Congrats to Witney too!

Len leaving reminds me so much of when Simon left Idol and the only legit judge that dared to critique the singers/dancers was gone. It didn't take long for Idol to become a constant parade of standing ovations and effusive praise, and I don't know if Derek is enough to counteract CAI and Bruno.

[White Dog]

13 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

You didn't watch her season, but you're saying she doesn't compare to Charli? How would you know?

youtube - 

7 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Len leaving reminds me so much of when Simon left Idol and the only legit judge that dared to critique the singers/dancers was gone. It didn't take long for Idol to become a constant parade of standing ovations and effusive praise, and I don't know if Derek is enough to counteract CAI and Bruno.

I'm going to miss Len.  

Edited November 15, 2022 by White Dog

[Melonie77]

2 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

I always considered Meryl a ringer just like Charli. Not surprising that two of the people bandied about as being the best dancers had such a significant leg up on the competition. 

I too thought of her as a ringer but I somehow didn't mind since her background was in skating. I also don't mind the gymnastic ringers nor the cheerleaders. I also figure most people in the entertainment business have had some type of dance training even if just to help establish poise and body awareness. My problem is when they are highly trained in any type of dance, have a connection to one of the judges and are dancing with the judge's best friend.🙃
Sometimes I root for a ringer other times I'll vote for someone like last years winner - Iman who was really special.

11 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

That wouldn't exactly be shocking considering all the training she's had. She's a pro who just hasn't made it official yet. I've seen absolutely no growth. She started out excellent and stayed that way. And, weren't you complaining about what a ringer Charli was at the beginning of the season? I'm not sure what's changed.

I too did not see any growth with Charli. Perhaps only that she became a bit more talkative in the rehearsal packages and made even more emoji faces!

I hope Val, Gleb and Whitney conjure up some really fabulous finales for next week. Mark is truly an excellent choreographer so they have their work cut out for them. They should bring in other pros to help them. I know they've done this in the past.

[Melonie77]

11 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Len leaving reminds me so much of when Simon left Idol and the only legit judge that dared to critique the singers/dancers was gone. It didn't take long for Idol to become a constant parade of standing ovations and effusive praise, and I don't know if Derek is enough to counteract CAI and Bruno.

I'm very sad and disappointed to see Len leave. I think he's been an important, elegant and highly knowledgeable part of the show and it won't be the same without him. Where are they going to find another ballroom expert unless they promote one of the older pros into the position. If they do I hope it's a pure ballroom person. I also hope Len's health is ok. Although I was shocked at how gaunt he looked at the beginning of the season I thought his appearance has improved since then so hopefully he is ok. I know he left Strictly a while ago. I wonder why he chose this side of the pond to remain another few years and not stay in England w/ Strictly?

[thesupremediva1]

6 hours ago, Phebemarie said:

I think the judges have forgotten about Meryl when they say a certain young lady is the best dancer ever on DWTS.

Queen Meryl’s worst dance still resonates more than Charlie’s best. She knew how to perform and emote, beyond the near-perfect technique. She looked like a ballroom pro. I still think she’s the finest dancer ever to be on the show, and her dances with Maks were sublime - both individually and as a cohesive body of work.

[White Dog]

Oh, and don't forget Maks and Meryl were in LOVE.  All that over hyped bullshit is refreshingly gone with good ol reliable Trevor. 

[DEL901]

6 hours ago, Melonie77 said:

I'm very sad and disappointed to see Len leave. I think he's been an important, elegant and highly knowledgeable part of the show and it won't be the same without him. Where are they going to find another ballroom expert unless they promote one of the older pros into the position. If they do I hope it's a pure ballroom person. I also hope Len's health is ok. Although I was shocked at how gaunt he looked at the beginning of the season I thought his appearance has improved since then so hopefully he is ok. I know he left Strictly a while ago. I wonder why he chose this side of the pond to remain another few years and not stay in England w/ Strictly?

I think Nigel and Mary may be available….

[Fliz]

I think Val and Gleb have really stepped up their choreography this season and it's been fun to watch. (I never thought I would enjoy Gleb, so yay.)

God, I miss Maks...

[Lady Calypso]

I'm sad about the eliminations tonight, more than I thought I would be. But I think it solely has to do with the set-in-stone finalists from pre-season (Wayne/Gabby/Charli were the frontrunners from the start and I knew Shangela had the fanbase to get to the end). If it didn't feel like we had the top four pre-determined before the season even started, maybe I'd feel differently.

I get that these four are the top four in general, I totally understand logically that they were the best choices to get to the end. But it really feels like we're all just waiting for Charli to win, Wayne and Gabby to fight for second and third, and Shangela to trail behind in fourth. And her getting in the bottom just solidified that. At least, if Wayne landed in the bottom with Daniel and Trevor, same outcome but the finale becomes more unpredictable. 

I think I have realized that I will need to separate myself from this season before I appreciate Charli's dancing. I think I still have a bias against her and I do believe, down the line, I will appreciate her talent. Just right now, I can't. Her Paso was fantastic, BUT it's because she got good music. I felt like her Viennese Waltz was a little messier, but clearly I'm no expert so if she was getting that many praises, I clearly didn't see what they saw.

Gabby's dances worked slightly better for me, I liked her Waltz and her Paso was good, though needed more attack. 

Wayne's dances were alright, but he's showing that his performance ability is saving him. His technique still needs work, though his performance ability is still top notch. 

Shangela's dances were fun and I loved the solo segment Gleb gave her for her Paso. 

Trevor and Daniel were weaker, I totally get why they left, but I'm still more disappointed than anything.

As for the announcements, Len retiring isn't totally surprising. I figured he would want to eventually, especially given he doesn't live in America. Witney's pregnancy was a surprise, congrats to her!

I was very, very salty about Daniel not getting the chance to speak at the end. DWTS, you promised that you wouldn't need to rush through the ending of the show now that you've moved. Yet you KEEP pushing the credits as soon as a couple is eliminated. Stop that and give the eliminated couples a minute to speak, goddamn.

[Melonie77]

3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I was very, very salty about Daniel not getting the chance to speak at the end. DWTS, you promised that you wouldn't need to rush through the ending of the show now that you've moved. Yet you KEEP pushing the credits as soon as a couple is eliminated. Stop that and give the eliminated couples a minute to speak, goddamn.

I agree - I cringed when they cut away without giving him a chance to communicate his feelings. I loved his participation on the show and adored his partnership with Brittany.
Brittany will always be cemented in my mind now as an extra special pro who goes above and beyond for her partner and I hope the show manages to keep her on.

I felt bad for Trevor ending up being the bottom total score, I think both he and Emma knew they had no chance of getting into the finals and were happy with how far they did get, but I also think Emma knew they were underscored regularly during the season and overly criticized. It felt deliberate to me as if Trevor was often a pawn used to move other participants around on the leader board. I agree with those who have said that Emma has been a bit obnoxious lately with her DWTS show role. She's also been more obvious at showing displeasure with judging/scoring results. She's been loudly booing from the skybox and last night when they announced her partnership as bottom pair she bellowed a big sarcastic "Yay"!!!!

Maybe someone with more knowledge of dance could explain how Daniel consistently got better scores than Trevor. I enjoyed both of them but I felt Trevor grew more and I also thought he actually did more during their dances than Daniel did. 

[LadyMustang65]

14 hours ago, Melonie77 said:

Tonight I thought the dramatic and over-the-top praise for Charli means she IS getting the votes and the show is preparing viewers for her to win - I think there has been more than the usual backlash over her ringer/professional status.

I think a large part of the audience has been prepared for Charli to win since Day One.  Late night edge-of-sleep musings:  what if they are preparing viewers to bring her back as a pro next season?  I think it's a reasonable assumption that Witney will sit out next season as her baby will still be quite young.  Can you imagine the over-the-top hype the show could indulge in by bringing Charli back as a pro?  "The greatest celebrity dancer ever in the history of the show is now a PRO!"  Blah blah blah.  She'd have nearly a year to take some classes and learn enough to be able to choreograph.  I'm sure she could get help from Derek in preparing her for that.  I hope not, but I can't rule it out at this point either.

14 hours ago, White Dog said:

Jordin Sparks fans would like a word. 

Jordin Sparks needs to take that up with the judges. He had been in the bottom two twice, and the judges saved him both times.  Then the judges saved Heidi over Jordin.  The only one whose fan base kept them in well past their expiration date was Vinny's.  He didn't make bottom two until last week, and the judges used that opportunity to get rid of him.  

13 hours ago, White Dog said:

Correction. it's not two pros, it's a competition dancer who wants to become pro and during this show Charli has grown a lot under Mark's teaching.  She's so much better than I thought she was going to be. She's probably the best dancer this show has had 

You can spin it any way you want, but the show has never had a contestant who had anywhere near the amount of experience Charli has had.  Not even JoJo last season.  Charli isn't just a "competition dancer."  She trained at an elite dance academy, started dancing when she was three, and started competing when she was five.  She competed for over 10 years to great acclaim and wins at high level competitions.  One judge said of Charli that of all the dancers in the world, she had the most chance of becoming a professional.  I don't know why you feel the need to downplay her dance training and experience.  Charli came into this competition already knowing how to use her arms, her feet, her legs, how to turn and how to learn choreography quickly.  What you call growth is actually refinement.  While the others struggled to learn the basics, Charli was getting coached on the finer techniques of ballroom, things the others didn't have time for once they'd gotten the basics of their dance down.  You may be right about her being technically the best dancer this show has had, but that is also not surprising because she came in at such a high level to begin with.  I am with those who think Meryl was the best dancer this show has seen.  She didn't have quite the technical expertise of Charli (but neither does she have the kind of dance background that Charli has) but she outshines Charli in the performance aspect of it.  Which is not surprising given her background as an ice dancer where performance quality is important. 

6 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

Queen Meryl’s worst dance still resonates more than Charlie’s best. She knew how to perform and emote, beyond the near-perfect technique. She looked like a ballroom pro. I still think she’s the finest dancer ever to be on the show, and her dances with Maks were sublime - both individually and as a cohesive body of work.

I agree with that.  Meryl was sublime, and I think Maks is the best male dancer ever on the show.  They were magic together.

6 hours ago, DEL901 said:

I think Nigel and Mary may be available….

Oh God no.  Please no.  I don't even want to contemplate Mary and Carrie Anne on the same panel.  Just no.  Nigel's not bad, although at times he can be kind of pervy, but he's not a ballroom guy; he's a tap dancer.  Len brought gravitas because he was a professional ballroom dancer himself as well as a coach and a judge.  

[Melonie77]

On 11/15/2022 at 6:55 AM, DEL901 said:

I think Nigel and Mary may be available….

I was hoping that they would return to SYTYCD but if not, Mary certainly has the ballroom creds.
I know I've heard talk on and off of Mark's mother serving as judge over the years but not sure if that's still a possibility. And I would always love to see Maks take a permanent spot as a judge.

Edited November 20, 2022 by Melonie77

[Melonie77]

19 minutes ago, LadyMustang65 said:

Late night edge-of-sleep musings:  what if they are preparing viewers to bring her back as a pro next season?  I think it's a reasonable assumption that Witney will sit out next season as her baby will still be quite young.  Can you imagine the over-the-top hype the show could indulge in by bringing Charli back as a pro? 

Oh gosh I certainly hope not! I don't think she would make a very good teacher. And would she be able to tear herself away from raking in the millions on TikTok?🤣
I bet she will dance in the DWTS show though. And I can see her doing more projects with the Houghs/Mark.
They have the new troupe girl Alexis who won SYTYCD - they could move her up. And I think Sharna  will probably come back next year.

28 minutes ago, LadyMustang65 said:

Oh God no.  Please no.  I don't even want to contemplate Mary and Carrie Anne on the same panel. 

I didn't think of that when I left my last comment. That might be too much shrieking for one ballroom! I wonder if CA and Mary would have arguments over the mysterious lift rules!
I thought Carrie Ann was so bad last night with the tongue bathing over Charli that she seemed drunk. She looked like she was going to fall trying to get back to her seat and I think Derek thought so too as he got up to offer her a hand.
Derek quite often serves as spotter to both CA and Bruno. I've seen him jump to his feet and get Bruno's chair ready and lined up under his ass during Bruno's dramatic pose-striking, arm-waving critiques. Both he and CA have fallen down behind the judge's table in the past. CA has fallen off her chair numerous times over the years!🙃

[boyznkatz]

Speaking of Meryl, did she really have that much dance experience? I'm a longtime fan of figure skating, and I don't recall her being known as a ballroom dancing expert. I know ice dancers do some ballroom, but Meryl and Charlie were always known as the "athletic" duo while their Canadian counterparts Virtue and Moir were known as the artistic ones. Ice dancing is different from ballroom dancing. She isn't any different from the dozens of other ringers they've had on the show.

Edited November 15, 2022 by boyznkatz

[realdancemom]

I'm happy with the results because I watch for the dancing and IMHO, these were the best four dancers.  I could see how it could be boring since it was predictable but there were some "shocking" eliminations during the season.  This was a nice semi finals too.  I would have preferred Jordin being there instead of Trevor but she was up against Heidi not Trevor when she was eliminated.  Heidi is technically better than her but I preferred Jordin because of her musicality and the joy she brings when she dances. 

Trevor and Daniel had nice journeys and they should be proud of their progress during this season.

As for ringers, generally I don't mind them because I do watch for dancing.  I don't believe stars should have ballroom training but I believe Riker was the only one that did that when he was younger.  Charli is more like Jojo who did competitions but mainly jazz and contemporary.  She does have more training since Jojo quit when she was younger to sing and perform.  I don't count doing a special with Derek and Julianne as ballroom training anymore than what Zendaya or Lindsey Stirling did to prepare for one number.  They just learned enough of a dance to make it look good on video.  Does Charli have an advantage over other contestants because of her dance training?  Of course, but that has happened in other seasons, e.g. Heather Morris, Corbin, Jojo, etc.  The personal relationship between Derek and family is more suspect just like Riker was a cousin of the Houghs.  But this show has never been truly fair and they do manipulate a lot even with those relays, team competitions, etc.  I think Riker was brought in to make Allison look good.  Mark came back only because he was promised that Charli would be his partner. The show probably is hoping that Charli would bring in a younger set of viewers.

As I mentioned, I'm happy with the final four.  I agree with Len that any one of them could have won in another weaker season. We have the potential to watch four exciting freestyles.

Shangela is fun to watch and can really perform.  She has improved technique wise.  I liked her paso more than I like Wayne's. I think she gives the best sky box interviews with Alfonso and I love her pre packages too. She made me like Gleb which was hard to do.  I'll probably think that he's a sleaze and douche next season again. LOL. 

Wayne was my favorite going into this season.  He's kind of faded to me the last few weeks.  He still can perform but his technique has plateaued.  Still think that he and Witney can bring a fun freestyle.

As I mentioned last week, Gabby dances like a typical ringer from other seasons.  She's fun to watch and has decent technique.  Sometimes, I enjoy her dances more than Charli's.  I think she's funny and I'll always admire her work as a nurse during the pandemic.

I've enjoyed Charli since her fox trot.  She really is on another level when it comes to technique.  Her performance quality has improved. One problem that I have is that I don't see joy in her dancing.  Jordin and Iman are good examples of people that look like they're having fun while dancing.  Shangela always looks like she's having a ball. I think Charli is still in competition mode and is a perfectionist and that has something to do with it.  Another weakness is just her age.  It reminds me of how I appreciate older dancers in SYTYCD more than the 18 year olds even if the 18 year old has better technique.  People can fake being angsty in contemporary but it seems more believable when somebody has actually experienced hurt and is willing to be vulnerable enough to show it.

Edit to add - I love Meryl and Maks dances even if Meryl had lazy feet.  Also, Mary has ballroom cred but I don't want a screaming hot tamale judge.  Nigel doesn't have ballroom cred.  I think Maks or Cheryl would be better choices.

Edited November 15, 2022 by realdancemom

[anonymiss]

Charli and Mark's Paso was outstanding! He even brought out some Spanish guitar to start. I was so happy with every second. I love how Mark can enjoy not having to dance down or,  more importantly, choreograph down. He's never looked like he's having more fun out there or afterwards ever looked so proud. At least not in a long time. Mark left after it seemed he wasn't getting the appreciation (I felt, anyway) he and his work deserved. So glad for him to get that with Charli. 

That said, I'd be most happy for Shangela. I'm sad she landed in the bottom 2. Hope they pull through with the votes. Thank you, Gaga! 

Also, with dear Len going, I hope Derek can maintain some judging standards of prioritizing good technique and less "mucking about." I enjoy my mucking about and gimmicks but there needs to be a balance. The worse seasons were with 3 shrieking Paula Abdul-type judges when Julianne was there.

Edited November 15, 2022 by anonymiss

[LadyMustang65]

1 hour ago, Melonie77 said:

I didn't think of that when I left my last comment. That might be too much shrieking for one ballroom! I wonder if CA and Mary would have arguments over the mysterious lift rules!
I thought Carrie Ann was so bad last night with the tongue bathing over Charli that she seemed drunk. She looked like she was going to fall trying to get back to her seat and I think Derek thought so too as he got up to offer her a hand.
Derek quite often serves as spotter to both CA and Bruno. I've seen him jump to his feet and get Bruno's chair ready and lined up under his ass during Bruno's dramatic pose-striking, arm-waving critiques. Both he and CA have fallen down behind the judge's table in the past. CA has fallen off her chair numerous times over the years!🙃

Yeah, could you imagine Mary, Carrie Anne and Bruno all on the same panel?  No, thank you!  At least Mary can talk sitting down, which Bruno appears absolutely incapable of doing.  I don't know what was up with CA last night, but she was so unprofessional.  It was weird with Shangela, but going over to hug Charli was just bizarre.  Maybe not quite drunk, but it wouldn't surprise me if she'd had a couple before the show.  She was really off the rails last night.

1 hour ago, boyznkatz said:

Speaking of Meryl, did she really have that much dance experience? I'm a longtime fan of figure skating, and I don't recall her being known as a ballroom dancing expert. I know ice dancers do some ballroom, but Meryl and Charlie were always known as the "athletic" duo while their Canadian counterparts Virtue and Moir were known as the artistic ones. Ice dancing is different from ballroom dancing. She isn't any different from the dozens of other ringers they've had on the show.

Meryl was somewhat familiar with many of the different styles as they have been adapted for ice dancing.  Although obviously a waltz performed on the ice is not the same as a waltz performed on a dance floor.  But ice dancing is based on ballroom dancing, so they do learn some of the elements.  She had an advantage because she was already used to learning and performing choreography, she already knew how to spin and turn and use her arms gracefully, and mostly she knew how to bring a performance.  That's true for most contestants deemed ringers, but it's nothing compared to the kind of dance experience Charli has.  Kristi Yamaguchi was another ice skater who did very well and was able to pick up ballroom fairly easily.  As a figure skater, though, she was even less of an actual ringer than Meryl.  

1 hour ago, realdancemom said:

Shangela is fun to watch and can really perform.  She has improved technique wise.  I liked her paso more than I like Wayne's. I think she gives the best sky box interviews with Alfonso and I love her pre packages too. She made me like Gleb which was hard to do.  I'll probably think that he's a sleaze and douche next season again. LOL. 

One problem that I have is that I don't see joy in her dancing.  Jordin and Iman are good examples of people that look like they're having fun while dancing.  Shangela always looks like she's having a ball. I think Charli is still in competition mode and is a perfectionist and that has something to do with it.  Another weakness is just her age.  It reminds me of how I appreciate older dancers in SYTYCD more than the 18 year olds even if the 18 year old has better technique.  People can fake being angsty in contemporary but it seems more believable when somebody has actually experienced hurt and is willing to be vulnerable enough to show it.

Edit to add - I love Meryl and Maks dances even if Meryl had lazy feet.  Also, Mary has ballroom cred but I don't want a screaming hot tamale judge.  Nigel doesn't have ballroom cred.  I think Maks or Cheryl would be better choices.

I agree about Shangela making Gleb likeable.  That's quite a feat as I usually find him kind of douche-y.  But he seems like a different person this season and appears to be really enjoying his partnership with Shangela.  I would love to see them go all the way.

And I've said that about Charli from the start, but I think you said it better maybe.  You're right - there isn't really any joy in her dancing.  It's for the most part emotionless.  Like she's hyperfocused on doing everything perfectly and forgetting that it's supposed to be fun.  Because she doesn't look like she's enjoying herself, the audience doesn't either.  At least some portion of it anyway.  I also agree about enjoying the older dancers on SYTYCD more and for the same reason.  Like Charli, they put on faces that they think convey the emotion but they don't really know what it's like.

Maks or Cheryl would be great choices to take over for Len.  Cheryl made a cryptic comment about this possibly being her last season on DWTS "as a dancer," so maybe they've talked to her about it?

[boyznkatz]

25 minutes ago, Josh371982 said:

LOL OK. GMAFB. Production Pet/Chosen one Must be worshipped and Praised Tik Tik Dancer Charli was anointed the winner by lots before this season ever started. It's no different. Judges over the top comments make me barf. Don't like the entitled anointed one. I don't get why Tik Tok must be worshipped. Would fucking love for Wayne or Shangela to win. Neither are Judges/Production Pets or ABC Pets

Wayne must be getting hella votes because they sure did bullshit lowball him while giving Gabby and Charli perfect scores. The Charli worship was definitely over the top last night and it was oh, so predictable.