S02.E07: Arrivederci

[chocolatine]

3 minutes ago, izabella said:

Yes, absolutely, he's a dick.  It's amazing how much of an awful person he is, all in one guy.  I was answering the question of whether he wasn't really rich and couldn't afford to pay them, not whether he was a dick about paying.  I think when Lucia confronted him, he was with his wife and Harper and Ethan, about to go into dinner.  For all that he is blatant about his cheating, he didn't want Lucia and Mia asking for money in front of Daphne.

When she reminded him about the money in a previous episode, he said "I'll get it, it's nothing," which I find so infuriating and insulting when rich people say that to poor people to whom they owe money. I really wished she had punched him for saying that.

[Ms Blue Jay]

55 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

When she reminded him about the money in a previous episode, he said "I'll get it, it's nothing," which I find so infuriating and insulting when rich people say that to poor people to whom they owe money. I really wished she had punched him for saying that.

Yeah.  And it felt disingenuous.  I kept waiting for a reveal about Cameron actually in deep water with major money troubles.  But I guess not.

[JD5166]

I know a lot of people have said Porsche was pretty nonchalant about Tanya not being there but even with the sunglasses on she was ready to lose it. She knew Tanya was probably dead and I saw in her reaction that she was ready to break down but needed to be cool (which really kind of went to against her character!) 

Even at 20 I am not sure I would’ve been able to go back to my normal life, I don’t think Porsche will ever be okay again! I’ve seen some shit, nothing like that, though! (I have also worked for some very very rich (somewhat famous) people!)

[jeansheridan]

On 12/12/2022 at 5:11 AM, luna1122again said:

Portia is, for some reason, a more polarizing character than I realized. Sure, she did stupid things, but she's young and learning, like many of us were/did, but I swear, half of the animosity toward her is about her wardrobe. 

Portia just seems to lack any sense of self preservation. I don't know how she got to 22 or 23 without serious damage. Albie is also unbright but he is 6 feet and has enough sense not to fight two guys on a deserted road in Sicily. 

I mostly hated how transparent she was with Jack. Where is my phone. She knows he took it! Get the hell out of there. I am glad she didn't die and Jack isn't a killer but I get zero sense she learned anything.  She's polarizing because it is rare to see such an idiot get so much screen time. I actually resent Mike for using the woman in jeopardy trope.

[jeansheridan]

I think Mike White is like Woody Allen in that he knows how to write compelling characters but his female characters will always be disappointing or a fantasy. Daphne is a fantasy. The beautiful, smart, savvy wife who is so effing cool. Same with Lucia. The rest are disappointing messes. Harper is a total mess if that's all it takes for her to ignore her husband went psycho. One round of sex? Is she that basic? 

[SlovakPrincess]

Well, shit.  By the end, I was really rooting for Tanya!  At least she got a bit of revenge killing off most of the guys on the boat before she died.  And thanks a bunch Portia for not even trying to call the cops or anything for Tanya, after Jack let her go.  I guess she either thought Tanya would get back to the hotel somehow, or she really took Jack's advice to heart, and thus basically sacrificed Tanya to escape Sicily.    

Albie is a big dummy, getting played by Lucia big time, but at least he loves his dad again now?  And he finally has Portia interested in him?  I suppose that counts as a happy ending, for this weird show.   

We never really learned what makes Ethan tick, so having him go from completely passive to homicidally angry and jealous to finally turned on by his wife -  in the span of a few days - was unconvincing for me.  I'm not even sure we learned much about Harper and what her deal is.  Kinda shocking that story fell so flat, since Aubrey Plaza was one of the big draws for this season.  Daphne ended up being the most interesting of that foursome.  

[jeansheridan]

On 12/12/2022 at 7:30 PM, greyhorse said:

They still never explained why Ethan isn't attracted to Harper.  She's beautiful and fit.  What was the underlying problem?

She is Harper...neurotic, bossy, dry, etc. Maybe he finds her as tedious as I do. By the end I was done with him too. Mike White makes swans into ugly ducklings doesn't he? Except for Daphne. Fahy was the MVP of this season. Glorious and subtle playing a seemingly obvious woman. Mike White got lucky casting her.

[jeansheridan]

18 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

We never really learned what makes Ethan tick, so having him go from completely passive to homicidally angry and jealous to finally turned on by his wife -  in the span of a few days - was unconvincing for me.  

Agreed 1000 times. Deeply unsatisfying. He's not believable as anything other than a jogger. Excellent jogging acting. 

[jeansheridan]

On 12/13/2022 at 11:06 AM, Rebecca berkowit said:

Any ideas would be welcome, the passport thing has been eating at me.

I always carry my passport unless I am swimming. Then I leave it in a safe at the hotel. It's my only ID in a different country. 

[peeayebee]

I think we were supposed to suspect that Cameron was not as rich as he pretended to be. It was a misdirect and obviously worked for many viewers, including me.

8 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

I think Mike White is like Woody Allen in that he knows how to write compelling characters but his female characters will always be disappointing or a fantasy. Daphne is a fantasy. The beautiful, smart, savvy wife who is so effing cool. 

That's how she's revealed to be, but again early on she was presented as a superficial even ditzy woman. As the series progressed, we see that she's not dumb and has a lot more depth that she seemed to at the beginning.

[AstridM]

On 12/11/2022 at 10:43 PM, Milburn Stone said:

Mike White is a genius.

He always has been. 

[Milburn Stone]

37 minutes ago, AstridM said:

He always has been. 

We plan to go back and watch Enlightened again.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Milburn Stone

[SlovakPrincess]

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I thought Season 1 was much better: more cohesive themes, more interesting characters (even the loathsome Shane was more fleshed out than many of the characters this season).   
 

I feel like they threw too much into this season and tried too many twists and too little character development.  Lucia had some depth and self doubt in one episode… then she became an elusive character revealed at the end to be happily grifting.  Valentina goes from competent and prickly to an idiot making puppy dog eyes at any attractive lady who smiles at her.  I’ve already complained enough about Ethan and Harper.  And more could’ve been done to explore Dominic - is he truly an addict or just has never gotten serious about fidelity before his wife left him?  He’s infinitely more interesting than Albie … the actor was good, but we had a ton of screen time with that kid, mostly just having the same scenes with Lucia over and over by the end. 
 

The whole thing with the legend of the severed head and the ominous naked paintings never really came to anything.  The one major death was really about a criminal plot and greed, not sex or infidelity (and on some level was about Tanya realizing way too late that failing to “get her shit together” made her a target for those that would use her).  

[tennisgurl]

That certainly was a lot, I was so sure that all of the murder theories was just people having fun speculating and the real twist would be pretty mundane, like in the first season, nut nope. Those gays really were trying to kill her! I was totally right about Lucia though, Albie got played like a fiddle. 

Next season the White Lotus POV character should be their very stressed out PR executive who is trying to deal with these many PR disasters that have been happening lately.

Albie is a sweet kid, but wow what an idiot. Say what you will about his dad, he was totally right about Albie being an easy mark. I guess now that Albie has gotten his broken bird thing out of his system and Portia has gotten her bad boy thing out of her system, they can give it a shot together? Neither of them are exactly the brightest bulbs, they both got easily played. Interesting that its implied that both Lucia and Jack did come to like Albie and Portia, even if they were playing them, even though Lucia went through with her (much less scary) plan while Jack told Portia to get out of dodge. Was he originally supposed to kill her, or just keep her occupied? No wonder Greg was so pissed when Tonya brought Portia along, he didn't want a witness. 

Tonya was a ridiculous self centered idiot, but I feel bad for her dying so soon after escaping a murder attempt by her own husband. The murder plot itself was pretty bad and would have never gotten as far as it did if Tonya was less of a moron. Of course she was way more upset about the idea of her husband having an affair than having her killed, that's very on brand. 

I guess all Harper and Ethan need to do to keep things hot is have an open relationship? Sometimes have sex with their friends to keep it interesting? Both find personal trainers? At least they seem happier than when they got here. 

Honestly, so much money in this cast and hardly a lick of common sense. 

I like this show a lot, but I think Mike White peaked as a creator in Enlighted, which has a lot of similar themes as this show but with more likable and complex characters, it says so much more about the empty pursuit of wealth and trying to find happiness in a world of materialism and capitalism in a few episodes than this show has in two seasons, while being a whole lot more fun. 

[AstridM]

On 12/11/2022 at 10:47 PM, AzureOwl said:

I don't think so. As Greg's reaction shows in retrospect, Portia's presence in Sicily was not part of the plan and everything relating to her was probably improvised. 

The fact that they waited until they were within sight of the White Lotus in Taormina instead of simply killing her in the yacht and dumping her body in the Ionian leads me to believe that the idea was for Tanya's death to look like an accidental drowning. 

Which makes sense. The last thing Greg wants is for Tanya's body to disappear without a trace. He would have to wait 7 years for her to be declared legally dead and access her millions. Greg needs to the body to be found.  

Doubtful. He was shot in the lung and spent the entire night bleeding out. It would be a miracle if he survived. 

Accidental drowning but with duct tape and rope?

[roughing it]

Regarding Jack dropping Portia off near the airport:  It was near the "Palermo" airport, so that Portia could fly from Palermo back to Taormina and to the White Lotus.  Then later we see her as she ran into Albie at the airport to fly back to the U.S.

It wasn't random that in Season 1 Greg accidentally tried to enter Tanya's room.  He was already targeting her for this con.

[AstridM]

On 12/11/2022 at 10:55 PM, Samsnee said:

If Ethan is using what he learned by watching porn, then he is absolutely horrible at sex. 
 

Albie screwed himself over. Only a complete idiot thinks a hooker isn’t trying to pull one over on him. 

Thank you. Watching lots of porn definitely doesn’t make men “good” at sex. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

4 minutes ago, AstridM said:

Accidental drowning but with duct tape and rope?

He had to keep her tied up on the boat first!

[AstridM]

On 12/11/2022 at 11:00 PM, chocolatine said:

Are we supposed to believe that Ethan and Daphne hooked up on their walk to Isola Bella, and now that he and Harper are "even" they can wipe the slate clean and start all over? That's disgusting and not believable.

It really is a disgusting thought.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Everyone else might already know this, but now that I finally looked up the cast I see that Jon Gries ("Greg") is Uncle Rico from Napoleon Dynamite. LOL I knew that I  knew him from something.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[AstridM]

On 12/11/2022 at 11:07 PM, Jaundiced Eye said:

Tanya just shot (four?) people, Quentin is bleeding out from the chest and mouth, and she grills him about whether Greg is cheating on her. That was pretty wild.

It was brilliant black comedy, imo. 

[AstridM]

On 12/12/2022 at 7:00 AM, Dminches said:

I thought Daphne was the most likable character on the show.  Right now she feels trapped in a marriage to a jerk and has found a way to make the best of it. Eventually she will find her way out when she feels the time is right and she has the strength. Sometimes you have to see reality clearly and work with it.

I hated her from her first scene and that never changed. She is “trapped” because she is too lazy and entitled to work for a living? I’m sure she would get a good amount of child support if they got divorced. I have no respect for women like her. 

[AstridM]

On 12/12/2022 at 8:11 AM, luna1122again said:

I agree she was the MVP of the season. She said more with her face and eyes than pages of dialogue would have conveyed for other actors. I've been a big fan of Fahy since her One Life to Live days. She should be a big star. And she's so pretty. 

I also love Haley Lu Richardson (if you haven't seen Columbus--which is most definitely NOT about Christopher--and Unpregnant, well, you should). Portia is, for some reason, a more polarizing character than I realized. Sure, she did stupid things, but she's young and learning, like many of us were/did, but I swear, half of the animosity toward her is about her wardrobe. 

Her eyebrows were a LOT, too. 🤣

[chocolatine]

48 minutes ago, roughing it said:

Regarding Jack dropping Portia off near the airport:  It was near the "Palermo" airport, so that Portia could fly from Palermo back to Taormina and to the White Lotus.  Then later we see her as she ran into Albie at the airport to fly back to the U.S.

Jack said it was the Catania airport, which is already the closest airport to Taormina, about an hour's drive away. If she had cash or a credit card on her, she could have taken a cab to the White Lotus, but since we didn't see her do it, there's no reason to believe that she did.

[AstridM]

On 12/12/2022 at 8:17 PM, Eureka said:

Best in Show, Legally Blonde are a couple that come to mind.

Seinfeld! American Pie.

On 12/12/2022 at 8:21 PM, Alexander Pope said:

Remember at first he had to ask permission to come when receiving a blow job?

OMG there is a good reason for this and it has nothing to do with being “woke.” 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

[AstridM]

On 12/12/2022 at 9:50 PM, shapeshifter said:

A lot of current TV writing seems to be like this, allowing viewers to hash it out on social media. Compare, for instance, the current reboot of Law & Order with the older episodes. 


 

Heh, yeah, maybe Lucia will show up on Albie's tawny-neighborhood doorstep in 12 years with her and Albie's son in tow when she's looking prematurely middle-aged after hard-living, and meanwhile Albie has a wife not unlike Harper or Daphne and a couple of kids of his own.

Daphne and Harper are nothing alike, lol. 

On 12/12/2022 at 10:30 PM, greyhorse said:

They still never explained why Ethan isn't attracted to Harper.  She's beautiful and fit.  What was the underlying problem?

Relationships and sex are about far more than physical appearance. 

[AstridM]

On 12/13/2022 at 12:24 AM, nb360 said:

I loved this expression on Aubrey Plaza's face.

Yes! And I couldn’t stop smiling when she finally told Cameron he was a fucking idiot at breakfast. 

[AstridM]

On 12/13/2022 at 2:06 PM, Rebecca berkowit said:

So here’s a question I haven’t seen addressed.  I get that Jack thought he was doing a nice thing for Portia by taking her to the airport and telling her to get out of the country.  But, how was Portia supposed to just get on a plane and go back home?  You can’t get on a plane back into the US from abroad without showing your passport. They check.  Did she just happen to bring her passport with her on what she thought was going to be an afternoon outing with Jack?   Did she leave it at the hotel?  Were she and Tanya intending to come back?  And if she left it at the hotel, she certainly couldn’t have gone back to get it, what with Jack’s stern warning and all.  Any ideas would be welcome, the passport thing has been eating at me.  

I assume she had the passport with her. I always carry mine when I travel, everywhere.

[AstridM]

On 12/14/2022 at 1:27 PM, aghst said:

What about the young couple from season 1?

Rachel had good reasons to leave her husband, the rich, entitled tool.

But she'd become destitute so she swallowed her pride.

Destitute? She was an educated woman with skills and work experience.

22 hours ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

I get that, but I’d still rather my kids’ dad be a Yalie MBA than a trainer.  But that may be just me.  But I mean, she must’ve married Cameron for a reason, right?  It couldn’t have been what a nice, upstanding guy he is!  She wanted those genes!

Cameron is also a misogynistic, amoral sociopath, so there’s that. I don’t think she married him because of his “genes.”

[AstridM]

6 hours ago, peeayebee said:

I think we were supposed to suspect that Cameron was not as rich as he pretended to be. It was a misdirect and obviously worked for many viewers, including me.

That's how she's revealed to be, but again early on she was presented as a superficial even ditzy woman. As the series progressed, we see that she's not dumb and has a lot more depth that she seemed to at the beginning.

She may not be dumb, but she’s still superficial, entitled, and privileged. Sickening.

5 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

We plan to go back and watch Enlightened again.

One of my all-time favorite shows! 

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

He had to keep her tied up on the boat first!

I’ll buy that!

[Alexander Pope]

3 hours ago, AstridM said:

Seinfeld! American Pie.

OMG there is a good reason for this and it has nothing to do with being “woke.” 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

My bad!! I was over-reading given all of Albie's tentativeness before this.  you are right of course.

[Anela]

Since Portia is still alive, I hope Greg doesn't get that money. I hated seeing her die anyway, but I'm glad that she got them first. 

Cameron is the worst. He is just so gross. 

[Dminches]

On 12/15/2022 at 3:17 PM, AstridM said:

I hated her from her first scene and that never changed. She is “trapped” because she is too lazy and entitled to work for a living? I’m sure she would get a good amount of child support if they got divorced. I have no respect for women like her. 

You have no idea what her responsibilities are as a mom and how much time that takes.  If they are like most families he can go off and do this thing and never worry about the kids.  She can’t. Child support doesn’t make them equal and neither does alimony. Plus, she is dealing with a cheating husband.  Not a good situation for her either way.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Dminches

[AstridM]

18 minutes ago, Dminches said:

You have no idea what her responsibilities are as a mom and how much time that takes.  If they are like most families he can go off and do this thing and never worry about the kids.  She can’t. Child support doesn’t make them equal and neither does alimony. Plus, she is dealing with a cheating husband.  Not a good situation for her either way.

Many women work and have families. 🤦‍♀️

[Blackie]

On 12/11/2022 at 11:38 PM, Irlandesa said:

Mike did mention bringing Tanya back in interviews.  And really, he probably still could.  There's no guarantee that these trips go in chronological order. 

Good point because Greg and Tanya just met in Season 1 and Season 2 they are  married already. (frankly I can't remember their status at the end of season 1 because it was so boring). Maybe there will be an inbetween season where Greg and Tanya get engaged  in the Maldives and that is where Tanya  earns more points to get to the Blossom level

Edited December 17, 2022 by Blackie
spelling

[Blackie]

On 12/15/2022 at 1:13 AM, jeansheridan said:

Portia just seems to lack any sense of self preservation. I don't know how she got to 22 or 23 without serious damage. Albie is also unbright but he is 6 feet and has enough sense not to fight two guys on a deserted road in Sicily. 

I mostly hated how transparent she was with Jack. Where is my phone. She knows he took it! Get the hell out of there

I was seriously afraid for her when she started asking Jack about his relationship with his uncle when they were in the car, YIKES!!  When he went "to take a shit" (so attractive) she should have just ran and found some police or other American tourists to help her get back to the hotel.

[jeansheridan]

On 12/15/2022 at 2:09 PM, AstridM said:

She may not be dumb, but she’s still superficial, entitled, and privileged. Sickening.

Based on what we saw, she loved her children and called them, was never rude to anyone but she also did keep to herself, privileged and generous if we believe her comment about drunk donating. I will allow superficial but she chose to interact with Ethan on the beach. She asked him about how he was doing. When he told her she absorbed the information and deflected elegantly. Her emotional intelligence is so high. She pays attention to people without challenging them. Harper is openly disdainful of them and she smooths it over with charm. Daphne is kind of an amazing creation.

[Rebecca berkowit]

On 12/15/2022 at 2:35 PM, AstridM said:

Accidental drowning but with duct tape and rope?

Yeah, that part wasn’t really explained.  Were they going to tie her up and then drown her and then remove the tape and rope?  Was it just in case she resisted?  I guess Mike White doesn’t even know.  He seems to be saying he just writes stuff and has no idea what happens if he doesn’t write it.  Which is a cop-out if you ask me.  “Oh, DID Ethan and Daphne have sex?  Well, I guess we’ll never know!”  Hey, author, ONE of us knows!  Irritating! 

On 12/15/2022 at 2:37 PM, roughing it said:

Regarding Jack dropping Portia off near the airport:  It was near the "Palermo" airport, so that Portia could fly from Palermo back to Taormina and to the White Lotus.  Then later we see her as she ran into Albie at the airport to fly back to the U.S.

It wasn't random that in Season 1 Greg accidentally tried to enter Tanya's room.  He was already targeting her for this con.

I really thought he told her to stay the hell out of Taormina, though.  Not to go back there.  Maybe I heard wrong.

On 12/15/2022 at 2:43 PM, AstridM said:

It really is a disgusting thought.

It’s believable to the extent that any of these couples, and their particular relationship dynamic, is believable.  It fits within the show.

On 12/15/2022 at 4:43 PM, AstridM said:

I assume she had the passport with her. I always carry mine when I travel, everywhere.

See, I never carry mine.  I just know it will get lost or stolen.  It stays in the hotel, hidden.

[peachmangosteen]

1 minute ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

I guess Mike White doesn’t even know.  He seems to be saying he just writes stuff and has no idea what happens if he doesn’t write it.  Which is a cop-out if you ask me.  “Oh, DID Ethan and Daphne have sex?  Well, I guess we’ll never know!”  Hey, author, ONE of us knows!  Irritating! 

Seriously this. He also apparently didn't give the Valentina actor (so presumably he didn't give any of them) any information about who Valentia was/what drives her/her history so the actress had to make it all up herself in order to be able to play Valentina.

Writers letting audiences form their own opinions about the story/characters is one thing, but Mike White just seems like a lazy writer to me.

[Rebecca berkowit]

On 12/15/2022 at 4:58 PM, AstridM said:

Destitute? She was an educated woman with skills and work experience.

Cameron is also a misogynistic, amoral sociopath, so there’s that. I don’t think she married him because of his “genes.”

Good point.  But also, there’s his ambition and capacity to make a great living, which is arguably inheritable. 

[shapeshifter]

2 minutes ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

On 12/15/2022 at 2:35 PM, AstridM said:

Accidental drowning but with duct tape and rope?

Yeah, that part wasn’t really explained.  Were they going to tie her up and then drown her and then remove the tape and rope?  Was it just in case she resisted?

I was not entirely able to handwave the duct tape, but I figured it was:

• to be used only if necessary
• and/or it was part of Nicollo's basic Go Bag,
  which, now that I think more about it, could include both tools of the hired-killer trade, but also emergency boat stuff.
  IDK: Could duct tape plug a bullet hole in a boat long enough to get to land around Sicily?

[Rebecca berkowit]

On 12/15/2022 at 7:28 PM, Alexander Pope said:

My bad!! I was over-reading given all of Albie's tentativeness before this.  you are right of course.

Well, he didn’t specifically ask WHERE, as would be more normal to do, so I guess you could read it as his asking permission to do so at all! 

15 hours ago, AstridM said:

Many women work and have families. 🤦‍♀️

And many don’t.  She has three kids. That’s not nothing.  She probably has help, though, so there’s that.  But so do working moms.  

[Baltimore Betty]

Greetings from Rouen France, I do not carry my Passport around when I am touring it stays in the safe, I for one was a little surprised that Portia had her act together enough to have her passport and any money with her, she strikes me as someone that is always underprepared for every situation.

What would have happened if Portia would have to return to the hotel to retrieve her passport?

[peeayebee]

10 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I was not entirely able to handwave the duct tape, but I figured it was:

• to be used only if necessary
• and/or it was part of Nicollo's basic Go Bag,
  which, now that I think more about it, could include both tools of the hired-killer trade, but also emergency boat stuff.

Yeah, I was thinking it could be a Go Bag. I mean, I have aspirin in my purse, but I don't use it every day. :D

But I still wonder what the real plan was. The pre-nup seems key, so I am assuming that Greg told Quentin if Tanya is unfaithful, then Greg gets money. So Quentin had Nicollo have sex with her. And they filmed it. That should be enough. However, it certainly seemed like the plan involved Tanya being murdered because that friend of Nicollo's in Palermo was very upset, which I assume was because he knew she was going to be killed. 

Another way to look at it is that, yes, the plan was simply to have Nicollo have sex with her then getting the tape to Greg who then confronts Tanya, divorce, money. Quentin's friend in Palermo was upset because he didn't like how they all tricked Tanya. He liked her. Nicollo's bag was just a bag he always has with him with his tools of the trade. He was going to take Tanya back to shore in the small boat. Maybe there was someone else on Sicily who was going to take pictures of the two of them together, maybe of them kissing goodbye. 

I don't know. I'm struggling here.

[shapeshifter]

10 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

The pre-nup seems key, so I am assuming that Greg told Quentin if Tanya is unfaithful, then Greg gets money. So Quentin had Nicollo have sex with her. And they filmed it. That should be enough. However, it certainly seemed like the plan involved Tanya being murdered because that friend of Nicollo's in Palermo was very upset, which I assume was because he knew she was going to be killed. 

I always assumed the pre-nup was only about Greg not getting anything if he was unfaithful because, IIRC, the bit of Greg's side of the phone call we heard was just something like "she's got that damn pre-nup," which I interpreted to mean that the prenup only hurt him, not Tanya.
But, sure, it could be a 2-way pre-nup, and Greg was annoyed that they'd have to deal with all the shenanigans of hiring Niccolo and taping it  etc. etc. 

But now I'm thinking Quentin decided to go with murder because if they just went with a prenup clause, Greg would get a lot less money than if he inherited everything, and Quentin's share would be a lot less with a prenup settlement than a total inheritance. 
I wish we had some hint that this was the case since it would demonstrate that Quentin got what he deserved because of his greed. 
But, then again, Tom Hollander as Quentin did some great evil faces, so maybe Mike White just wanted to focus on that.

Edited December 17, 2022 by shapeshifter

[SlovakPrincess]

29 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Seriously this. He also apparently didn't give the Valentina actor (so presumably he didn't give any of them) any information about who Valentia was/what drives her/her history so the actress had to make it all up herself in order to be able to play Valentina.

Writers letting audiences form their own opinions about the story/characters is one thing, but Mike White just seems like a lazy writer to me.

You CAN have ambiguity when it serves the story, but here there was an awkward shift in perspective for certain characters that didn't work: Lucia, Ethan and Harper became mysterious characters hiding things from the audience in the last few episodes of the season.  Whereas for the first part of the season, we saw everything even if other characters were kept in the dark (i.e., we knew exactly what Ethan did and didn't do that fateful night, and Lucia's plans were all explained through her talks with Mia).  

Whereas, Valentina goes from mysterious to just ... cringeworthy.  It wasn't even touching to see her more vulnerable side, it was just pathetic because she blatantly used her position as employer to try and please the women she liked.  

I'm still upset about Tanya!  Maybe it's just that the scene on the boat was the most intense and well acted of the season (Jennifer Coolidge really made me feel her fear).  And for all Tanya's (many!) faults, she really was just desperate to be loved and her ending was tragic.  

The best acted and most interesting characters in the season were probably Tanya, Portia, Daphne ... and Jack.  I actually think the Jack actor sold it, going from obnoxious "fun" guy, to his drunken confession, to his final scene with Portia.  

[Rebecca berkowit]

33 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

You CAN have ambiguity when it serves the story, but here there was an awkward shift in perspective for certain characters that didn't work: Lucia, Ethan and Harper became mysterious characters hiding things from the audience in the last few episodes of the season.  Whereas for the first part of the season, we saw everything even if other characters were kept in the dark (i.e., we knew exactly what Ethan did and didn't do that fateful night, and Lucia's plans were all explained through her talks with Mia).  

Whereas, Valentina goes from mysterious to just ... cringeworthy.  It wasn't even touching to see her more vulnerable side, it was just pathetic because she blatantly used her position as employer to try and please the women she liked.  

I'm still upset about Tanya!  Maybe it's just that the scene on the boat was the most intense and well acted of the season (Jennifer Coolidge really made me feel her fear).  And for all Tanya's (many!) faults, she really was just desperate to be loved and her ending was tragic.  

The best acted and most interesting characters in the season were probably Tanya, Portia, Daphne ... and Jack.  I actually think the Jack actor sold it, going from obnoxious "fun" guy, to his drunken confession, to his final scene with Portia.  

Rumor has it that the actors playing Jack and Daphne hooked up in real life, as did Portia and Albie.  You can sort of see it in one of the interviews with the Portia and Albie actors, they seem awfully cozy.  

[AstridM]

13 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

Based on what we saw, she loved her children and called them, was never rude to anyone but she also did keep to herself, privileged and generous if we believe her comment about drunk donating. I will allow superficial but she chose to interact with Ethan on the beach. She asked him about how he was doing. When he told her she absorbed the information and deflected elegantly. Her emotional intelligence is so high. She pays attention to people without challenging them. Harper is openly disdainful of them and she smooths it over with charm. Daphne is kind of an amazing creation.

Disdainful for a reason, imho. 🤷‍♀️

2 hours ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

Good point.  But also, there’s his ambition and capacity to make a great living, which is arguably inheritable. 

There’s a lot more to a great life than money, imo.

[Rebecca berkowit]

31 minutes ago, AstridM said:

Disdainful for a reason, imho. 🤷‍♀️

There’s a lot more to a great life than money, imo.

Money can’t buy happiness.  But it sure makes being sad a lot easier! 

[Anela]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I was not entirely able to handwave the duct tape, but I figured it was:

• to be used only if necessary
• and/or it was part of Nicollo's basic Go Bag,
  which, now that I think more about it, could include both tools of the hired-killer trade, but also emergency boat stuff.
  IDK: Could duct tape plug a bullet hole in a boat long enough to get to land around Sicily?

That could have been another reason to have the mafia involved. That young English guy was supposed to kill the only other person that knew who she was with. At least, it seemed that way. Extremely wealthy woman's body is found bound up and drowned. It's seen as murder, but there is no connection to her husband, so he gets the money. They had her do cocaine, so that would be in her system for a while, wouldn't it? I don't know. I've never used drugs. The people on those forensic shows, are always testing for things like that.

On a sidenote: I'm English (and a citizen over here), and I realized that I was speaking just like him, when my dad came home to pick me up, and get me out of here. I sounded like I'd stepped right out of London again. More cockney. 

1 hour ago, AstridM said:

Disdainful for a reason, imho. 🤷‍♀️

There’s a lot more to a great life than money, imo.

There is, but when you don't have it, and you need it, it doesn't seem that way. I would love to be comfortable financially. You can't win either way. People will judge you if you have money, and judge you if you can't take care of yourself, or everything in your life. 

One thing that gets me with this show, is that most of them are so rich, they have their basic needs met in that way. If emergencies come up, they can afford to take care of it, with no thought as to how they will do it. That doesn't eliminate the stress, worry and grief entirely, but it's one thing they *don't* have to worry about. And yet they settle for people who hurt them. They could be brave, do something else. If Daphne divorced, she would probably be set for life, but she has an image to maintain. Better the devil you know.

I don't know why so many people hated Harper, but then I'm more like her. I can't leave it alone, if something is wrong. 

Edited December 17, 2022 by Anela