Fandom and Viewer Issues: "Fan" Is Short for "Fanatic"

[Aliasscape]

What is Josh tweeting about?

[Souris]

The beer sounds lovely, I wonder why Colin and Sean chose to brew this particular style. You should also expand your palette and try some Wisconsin craft beers sometime...you might be pleasantly surprised.

 

Either it's a style they like, or (more likely in my opinion) it's a style the brewery was wanting to do and just let them help with it for promotion/fun.

[mjgchick]

Damn the SQers are mad people are signing up on that ABC Advisory panel.

[sharky]

Can someone explain details because I don't belong over there.

[mjgchick]

Its just the place where you talk about what you love about the show. They aren't expressing their hate over there because I think its against the rules to talk about real life people. I'm seeing it on twitter and tumblr.

[YaddaYadda]

They opened up a True Loves couple forum. I think that might be what's got them rattled. 

[Rumsy4]

There was so much passive-aggressive sniping in the advisory discussion section, the mods decided to open a separate thread for ship wars. Lol It is rather cringe-worthy though. I didn't get involved in any of the sniping.

[sharky]

So who is winning the war over there?

[Curio]

In fandom shipping wars, no one wins. We all lose.

[mjgchick]

Ahh nothing like passive aggressive sniping. lol I've pretty much ignored the negativity and post what I thought and replied to some people. It all just sounds embarrassing. Most are probably in their mid to late twenties/early thirties with children. lol

[Selina K]

I havent read through the full story board there, but given the ship board just opened, I read through that.  There are basically 4-5 SQ fans touting how beautiful and unconventional the Emma / Regina relationship is, but per SOP they comment about 100 times so they feel like the numbers are bigger.  So far the opinions on the  ship board seem to be 1. we like Snowing 2. split on Rumbelle and then the normal arguments about I love CS vs CS props up hetero-normative garbage and belittles Emma, etc.  Rinse, repeat.  To my quick analysis, there are more unique pro CS posters than unique pro SQ posters, but that isn't scientific.  There are a few pro OQ people as well.

 

I did get an email that I was selected for a "show team" for Once.  I'm not sure if that makes me a special snowflake or if that's something everyone gets.

[mjgchick]

Yeah I got that for Once, Blackish and The Muppets. I guess you take surveys and polls? They also made me do a Nashville survey last week also so I'm assuming I'm with them also? lol

I do like that you can get a chance to win some swag from ABC studios though.

The SQers do sound a bit...not there when I go back and read their post.

[RadioGirl27]

Poor Jared. He made a (short and innocent) comment about CS on his twitter and the SQ and SF shippers are going after him. He is sixteen, for God's sake!!

[Serena]

LMAO, that's literally the most neutral comment that could be made in the history of comments. It's "Captain Swan reunited", not even "Captain Swan reunited, YAY!" - it could just as well be "Captain Swan reunited, BARF."

[mjgchick]

OMW someone give these people a xanax.

[Souris]

I did get an email that I was selected for a "show team" for Once.  I'm not sure if that makes me a special snowflake or if that's something everyone gets.

 

You're just supposed to do the episode reaction survey within 24 hours of being posted when you're on a show team. That's literally it. I don't know if they give team members' opinions more weight or if it's just a way to get quicker feedback.

 

The advisory board has gotten insane, like anything in the fandom where you have various factions going at it. It's been pretty much like you expect: SQers come in like gangbusters, post tons in a row, insult CS & the fandom, then scream about being the victims when somebody calls them on their disrespectful behavior. I'm sure you're all shocked.

 

I wouldn't get too excited about the potential swag. I won one contest, and it was a giant poster of Chris Rock holding an Oscar.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Souris

[Mari]

I wouldn't get too excited about the potential swag. I won one contest, and it was a giant poster of Chris Rock holding an Oscar.

Um . . .

Hahahahahaha!

 

It's a treasured possession, right?  Right?

 

No offense to Chris Rock, or his fans (because I don't know anything bad about him and he can be very entertaining), but why would they think something you could Bing and print for yourself was swag?  It should at least be something like an exclusive on-set picture.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Mari

[Souris]

Not to mention they spent to FedEx overnight me that glorious swag in a giant package. I'm sure they get a nice corporate rate, but sheesh.

[Rumsy4]

I definitely don't like the tone of the ONCE discussion board on the advisory panel. I'll be taking the polls and posting my thoughts on episodes, but am not going to bother participating. 

 

Poor Jared tweeted that CS got reunited, and he got a bunch of responses. Many are positive, but there are the usual vomit-face gifs as well. This fandom...

Edited March 24, 2016 by Rumsy4

[rainbowstickers]

Hello all, I'm new to the board. I've been lurking for a while reading through this entire thread, so I finally signed up so I could join in on the discussion.

 

Realistically, I'm curious to know if you guys have ever had the experience, or seen people of the OUAT fandom divided on their ships or opinions and yet been able to talk about their disagreements with civility and respect? I don't have a lot of faith in Twitter, or tumblr, or Facebook as appropriate places for pleasant discourse without some people getting defensive or insistent that their opinion is right and insults being thrown around. I loath to look at the comments section for any post on the OUAT official Facebook page because it's very negative and childish in there. I'd say social media and the ugly side of it is a problem that isn't only particular to OUAT. As an example, I was once following a page on Facebook for another television show, and it was a fandom page of sorts, like for posting fanmade memes relating to the show. I saw someone express an unpopular opinion about liking a certain character only for several other people to basically jump down the poster's throat for it. I defended the person's opinion as politely as I could by saying there's nothing wrong with liking the character, and then I got sneered at for trying to educate people with "sensitivity training". That comment alone pissed me off so much I unfollowed the page rather than go down the rabbit hole of arguing with the person. I've seen things get ugly on Twitter in the OUAT fandom, but I don't ever jump in because I don't think it's worth it. 

[Katherine]

I've had some interesting experiences on Twitter. There have been a couple of times where I've tweeted Adam about my issues with the Regina/Emma friendship and several fans have sent me aggressive or mocking tweets in response. I tend to ignore them, but there have been a couple of times where I decided to reply and explain my reasons. It started out with them questioning/challenging me, but when I calmly stated my side without attacking their views, we got into a somewhat reasonable conversation about it. But this was just in response to people who expressed genuine (if somewhat aggressive) curiosity as to how I could not like the Regina/Emma friendship...I wouldn't try it with the fans who are outright attacking or insulting me.

[InsertWordHere]

Welcome! I agree that the places you mentioned can be very unpleasant most of the time. I've had interesting discussions on tumblr with people who possess different shipping tendencies but I have to say, even if you find the one person in five who will civilly disagree it tends to get very ugly when their shipmates start swarming (this goes for people who ship what I ship as well). I too have decided that it just isn't worth it to jump in anymore. If this board were to suddenly shut down tomorrow, after I finished having a meltdown about it, I would probably go to reddit's OUAT subreddit. While the discussion there doesn't get quite in depth as this board, it also doesn't seem to have the divided fandom lines you see on other social media sites. I feel like there is a pretty equal amount of people who like Hook, Rumple, and Regina there and it is perhaps a more accurate representation of the general audience than what you find in other places, including this forum. I don't feel like the Charmings are talked about as much there as they are here, however. 

 

ETA: I just noticed your screenname, rainbowstickers. Awesome!

Edited March 24, 2016 by InsertWordHere

[HoodlumSheep]

Welcome, rainbowstickers!

I once engaged in some banter with a twitter user whom I believe was a Rumple-lover (based on the twitter name). It lasted about maybe 5 tweets. I had asked Adam a question and the twitter user answered it. We then made jokes about the ridiculousness of the show involving Hook's poor memory and I think Rumple's one-noteness in 4a.

Otherwise no one's bothered me and I haven't bothered them, but I share my opinions which I believe to be on the constructive side, for the most part. Asking about plot holes and such.

On the tumblr side of things I know quite a few CS-shippers who like Regina well enough or are neutral. Not sure about CS/proRumple (and pro Rumbelle) blogs though. I think I might know one in existence, maybe.

I know I avoid reblogging anti-stuff, but I will "like" anti-posts on occasion.

Edited March 24, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[Faemonic]

Poor Jared. He made a (short and innocent) comment about CS on his twitter and the SQ and SF shippers are going after him. He is sixteen, for God's sake!!

Poor Jared! I think he gets enough hate just for being the youngest cast member playing a character written even younger than the character's actual age. Ow. But now he can't even make basic observations about the show that's been his life and job for the past five years? Excuuuse him for living...

 

OMW someone give these people a xanax.

Like the wizard in Galavant?

 

Hello all, I'm new to the board. I've been lurking for a while reading through this entire thread, so I finally signed up so I could join in on the discussion. Realistically, I'm curious to know if you guys have ever had the experience, or seen people of the OUAT fandom divided on their ships or opinions and yet been able to talk about their disagreements with civility and respect?

Welcome! Screwballninja, TheLast-ThingIDo, and QQueenofHades on Tumblr are my favorite blogs. Respectively they're a Rumbelle (and ensemble) fan, Regina (and ensemble) fan, and Regina and Hook fan (if there's any character bashing in that third one, I haven't kept up enough to catch it, but can't promise "and ensemble".) OnceUponAMeta focuses on social commentary, in a way I'd consider very fair because their call for essays about consent issues in OUaT were more thorough than "1. an essay about how Hook is the worst 2. another essay about how Hook is the worst 3. Hook actually is the worst 4. Just ignore all the creepy raper people on this show we only want anti-Hook essays" although not everyone is into the social commentary angle. DrNucleus on Tumblr unfollowed everybody negative about the show in S4, but I'm not sure if that left only fellow Captain Swan shippers? It shouldn't be so difficult to find people who aren't negative about the show and aren't in the same...fan faction.

 

We've gotten feedback that this here forum has become, for the most part, a pirate den that's elected Killian Jones as our King, which I personally never found a problem with because 1. he was the only reason I kept watching...until I stopped watching, and 2. nobody's shy about calling out when Killian's being a blockhead and a butt, that doesn't even mean the poster hates him or hates whoever likes him in real life. But as for whatever else that comes with: Who loves Baelfire's character development? Ain't Swen just the warmest and most welcoming people you'll ever meet online? Belle and Robin Hood put such an interesting new spin on their respective sources! The Charmings are the best parents. For that, I can't honestly boast that these forums are especially diverse as it is, and even I'm side-eyeing the standards I just gave for that...but I hope you'll stick around.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Faemonic

[Curio]

Welcome aboard, rainbowstickers! Hope you stick around! It's always nice having some new opinions around here.
 

Realistically, I'm curious to know if you guys have ever had the experience, or seen people of the OUAT fandom divided on their ships or opinions and yet been able to talk about their disagreements with civility and respect? I don't have a lot of faith in Twitter, or tumblr, or Facebook as appropriate places for pleasant discourse without some people getting defensive or insistent that their opinion is right and insults being thrown around.

I think you've come to the right place. While every social media outlet has its fair share of shipping tendencies and obnoxious posters, what I prefer about this forum is 1) you can get into analytical discussions about the show and write multiple-page length essays if you want (suck it, 140 characters!), 2) most of the posters are (for the most part) intelligent and very knowledgeable about the show, and 3) if things get out of hand, there are moderators who can jump in and set things straight. So in theory, you should be able to have a civil and respectful conversation here because the PTV rules literally state that you should be respectful of other opinions. Certain threads can definitely turn into an echo chamber of similar opinions (such is the beast of Internet discussions), but there are also plenty of other threads where people voice their differing opinions as well. There's an unpopular opinions thread, a positivity thread, and the general episodic thread all tend to be a good mix of different opinions without exploding into vitriolic arguments.

 

Here's kind of my personal OUAT fandom/social media breakdown that I've noticed:

 

Twitter: Cesspool of the worst kinds of fans. Shipping wars to the extreme. You can only post 140 characters, so no intelligent discussion can take place. The only reason I even lurk on Twitter is to get quotes from the actors and writers about the show.

 

Imdb: Twitter 2.0, but without the character limit.

 

Facebook: Still a bit of a cesspool, but marginally better than Twitter and Imbd discussions.

 

Tumblr: Better than the above, but still extremely ship-based and I despise the concept of "anti tags." Follow the right blogs and you'll be fine, but the format doesn't allow for good back-and-forth discussion posts like this board. Great for finding gifs and screenshots of the show. Occasionally, you can find very good metas about characters or plots.

 

Reddit: Fairly neutral and not quite so ship-based. Their favorite characters seem to be the villains, and Emma and the Charmings aren't quite as well-discussed or liked. Sometimes there are good commentaries, but for the most part, many of the opinions and discussions are very on the surface and in-the-moment. I've noticed that many of the posters are much more casual about watching the show, so they tend to forget very basic plot points about previous seasons. They also aren't nearly as in-depth as these boards about analyzing the writing and characterizations.

 

Previously.TV: There's a reason this is the only board I'm actually active on. I may lurk over at the other places, but this is the only place where I feel like it's a good blend of instantaneous and intelligent conversation (for the most part), a good dose of snark, but also fairly civil. Personally, I really appreciate it when posters with differing opinions offer their input, and as long as it's well-written and not just CHARACER ______ SUCKS, good conversation can come from it. Having more than one opinion is what makes for good discussion. I will admit it we're rather harsh on Regina here, but before 4x05 and Season 4B, I don't think it was nearly as bad. Like Faemonic said, even the characters who seem to be well-liked here tend to be put under a microscope and their actions scrutinized and debated. What I particularly love about this place is how the show's canon is important, and you'll often find conversations needing to cite the exact episode number and quote something from it word-for-word.

 

There are also the comments sections on websites like Nerdy Girl Notes, EW.com, TVLine.com, etc. But those are also limiting because you can't really have much back-and-forth discussions and the threads aren't broken up into topics like they are here.

[Rumsy4]

Welcome to the board, rainbowstickers! This forum is my go-to place to discuss the Show.  I like the intelligent conversation that happens here, plus the back-and-forth nature of discussion, which can be hard to achieve on tumblr. Sometimes the tone gets too negative, but overall, I think there is a good balance. It does tend to skew towards CS/Hook fans, but there are several neutral/non shippers too.

 

On tumblr, one needs to engage a lot in order to get "in" with the crowd. I found that I don't really have the energy for it. The general tags are a mixed bag. Tumblr blogs tend to skew very ship-centric, and general discussions are rare (at least I haven't found many). That's because bloggers tend to jump on anyone posting negative opinions on their favs. One is immediately labelled a "hater" if you express a critical opinion about a fav or the Show. This happens within CS blogs as well. Typical arguments are in the style of "You are not a true Emma-fan if ...". So, I stick to reblogging gifs/fanart/fic from CS blogs I follow. I do have one-on-one conversations with some bloggers there, which I enjoy. For meta, I tend to read qqueenofhades (pro-CS/Hook, pro-Regina), screwballninja (pro-Rumbelle, general fan), hellowherearemypeople (pro-CS/Hook, pro-Regina, pro-Rumple), and onceuponamirror (she's not too active now).

 

I have some twitter friends that I occasionally discuss OUAT with, but otherwise I avoid engaging on twitter or facebook. I will occasionally "like" or "retweet" posts just to increase positive engagement. But that's about it. I used to be active on imdb, but the trolling and negative-tone of many of the posts turned me off. I've never checked the OUAT threads on reddit. I also listen regularly to a couple of podcasts. One is general (ONCE podcast), and one is CS-centric (captainswan podcast). Wow, I engage a lot in social media for a Show that exasperates me more than it satisfies me! lol

[YaddaYadda]

One of the things that sort of sucks with fandom is something a friend of mine who is on tumblr mentioned to me the other day, that for some reason, if you like a character, you can't like another.

 

I love Hook, but I also enjoy the hell out of Rumple (even though he made me all sorts of ragey on Sunday). I love that the relationship between the two is as terrible as it has always been. They preserve the status quo, but we all know they loathe each other. I love that, and there's nothing forced about it. 

 

What I enjoy about this place is that we can just chat freely. If we disagree with someone about something they said, yeah we argue, but we're not really mean about it, but we also know when to move on.

 

I ventured in the ABC Advisory Panel yesterday, and I realized how really removed from fandom I am. I don't do social media at all. I don't have Twitter, or Tumblr, and I deleted my Facebook page more than 10 years ago, so I felt like I tripped and fell in a galaxy that was far far far away from my comfort zone.

[mjgchick]

Yeah same with me when it comes to Regina and well everyone else. I like her but I also like to rag on her but that's mostly the writers fault. I also notice that fandoms fight within their own fandoms. Like some CS shippers are hardcore Liam fans (I don't get it but to each their own.) and some are defensive that they are siding with whatever Liam means to Hook compared to Emma. Its probably mostly because if Liam disapproves of Emma its only fair play because David did the same with Killian also Liam's the only person they believe would put Hook first. I'm fine with all of this but some people just can't take it when others have difference of opinions. We see it in sports, religion and politics.

[HoodlumSheep]

Yeah same with me when it comes to Regina and well everyone else. I like her but I also like to rag on her but that's mostly the writers fault. I also notice that fandoms fight within their own fandoms. Like some CS shippers are hardcore Liam fans (I don't get it but to each their own.) and some are defensive that they are siding with whatever Liam means to Hook compared to Emma. Its probably mostly because if Liam disapproves of Emma its only fair play because David did the same with Killian also Liam's the only person they believe would put Hook first. I'm fine with all of this but some people just can't take it when others have difference of opinions. We see it in sports, religion and politics.

The liam stuff makes me have deja vu about the time when Emma made Killian a Dark One. It's practically the same argument, in my opinion. i'm all for seeing liam put Hook first, because we've never gotten to see it before (Emma will always put her son first), and I'd be disappointed if Killian didn't question whether he should move on or not (it's his choice). I feel like his age is catching up to him in a sort of way. You can tell his soul is feeling...weary.

But apparently I'm not putting Emma first for once concerning their entire relationship, so certain blogs won't be happy. *shrugs*

Personally I don't care if people have a difference of opinion on this matter, it's the people who are declaring that those who supposedly "side" with Liam's perspective need to stay out of their faces that get me frustrated.

Edited March 24, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[mjgchick]

Yeah I don't get it. Its ok if we see differently it doesn't mean we hate Emma or Hook or whoever any less.

[Shanna Marie]

One thing I like about this forum is that we do allow shades of gray. You can like Regina but not be satisfied with her "redemption." You can enjoy Rumple even while thinking he's a bastard. You can like Hook but think he has impulse control issues. We do tend to be rather anti-Regina, but I don't think we've driven off or silenced anyone who was willing to discuss her. You're probably not going to get a great welcome if you just drop in and shout "Hook is a stupid rapist and you're stupid if you like him." We're likely to ask you to explain how you came to that conclusion. But we'd do the same if you just showed up and started shouting anti-Regina sentiment without any backup or elaboration. I suppose this might be an uncomfortable place for an extreme fan of any character or pairing if you're the sort of person who can't stand it when anyone disagrees with you even a little and if you can't bear to hear an ill word spoken of your favorite.

[Camera One]

Twitter and Facebook tend to be quite unpleasant, even outside of discussing TV shows.  The comments on news articles, even on reputable TV news networks or newspapers' Facebook pages, are appalling.  You'd think with Facebook, since it contains peoples' actual names, it would be better, but often, it's still pretty bad.  

 

Twitter in particular, but most of these platforms, are geared towards people making short replies.  Maybe it promotes people blurting out opinions without elaborating or thinking.  

 

Perhaps here it's different because we're not solely interested in talking about ships, even though we do have a relationship thread.  We seem to find the slightest detail of worldbuilding or lackthereof to be endlessly fascinating.  We also frame a lot of our conversations around the writing, versus talking about the characters as if they're living people, so that might result in a little distance.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Camera One

[Notwisconsin]

The theology angle is something that has to be dealt with. How can you have Hades and The Holy Grail at the same time? When are they going to meet Santa and the easter bunny?

[CheshireCat]

mjgchick, on 24 Mar 2016 - 4:06 PM, said:

Yeah I don't get it. Its ok if we see differently it doesn't mean we hate Emma or Hook or whoever any less.

 

Frankly, I don't get hate of characters anyway or the hatred some people show for some characters or their actions. They are just characters after all and, in my opinion, hate is way too strong an emotion for TV show characters.

But I agree. It happens way too often that someone assumes just because you like one character you hate the other or because you're in favor of one/defend a character you're a fanatic of that character or if you criticize you hate them. Many also fail to see difference between hating/liking a character and hating/liking a character's actions.

[rainbowstickers]

What's interesting about OUAT is it is a show about people who can behave like heroes or villains, but both kinds of characters aren't a perfect mold for either a hero or villain. So it has given me the chance to see the gray area in characters where they aren't completely good or aren't completely bad either. I do think Regina is trying hard on the show to become a better person, yet at the same time, I'm not in favor of some things in her past kinda being brushed under the rug and never brought up again. How they handled Graham and what she did to him has been very sloppy. I can't remember which panel it was, but there was one where Lana was present at during the time Jamie Dornab was set to come back as Graham for the episode "Welcome to Storybrooke". Jamie's return was mentioned during the panel and Lana said Regina was going to get her "sexual groove" back. Have to admit, hearing her playfully joke about it made me cringe. Graham was essentially living in a mindless stupor under the curse probably having no clue why he keeps allowing himself to sleep with Regina. Even more disturbing is thinking about how he must have thought he's in control of his own actions, and maybe he was on some level, but yet his heart is unknowingly sitting in a box in the mayor's office... The scene where she ripped out his heart and made her guards take him to her bedchamber was definitely rape implied. I mean... Why her bedchamber and not a jail cell, if she only wanted to keep him as her prisoner, unless she had other plans for him? So yeah... Regina's rape of Graham is a very touchy topic. I'd akin it to a certain scene that occurs between Jamie and Claire of the Outlander series, in both the first Outlander book as well as Outlander season 1, that calls Jamie's character into question for his controversial actions towards Claire. I won't say what it is because it's potentially spoilery for those who don't know about it.

On the topic of Facebook... Ugh, I'm not even sure I wanna say this because it's so gross. There was a post a while back on the OUAT Facebook page that featured a photo of Colin as Hook laying down and he had a necklace of pearls in his mouth. One of the top "liked" comments was extremely NSFW and said something like... "I'd let Hook give me a pearl necklace any day." Wtf....? This example is exactly why I hate Facebook comments. If it's not comment threads filled with shipping squabble, it's dumb sexual comments that reduce Hook's character (or any character) to nothing but sex appeal and lustful eye candy.

[Rumsy4]

We do tend to be rather anti-Regina, but I don't think we've driven off or silenced anyone who was willing to discuss her. 

 

Well... we don't troll people, but it can be hard to be one of two people who like Regina in our forum, as evidenced by one of the posters. I wouldn't be interested in going to a anti-Hook forum, even if the majority of them were polite. However, we don't maliciously drive people who have different opinions away or try to silence them, as is done on tumblr.

 

Yeah I don't get it. Its ok if we see differently it doesn't mean we hate Emma or Hook or whoever any less.

But apparently I'm not putting Emma first for once concerning their entire relationship, so certain blogs won't be happy. *shrugs*

 

Yeah--this whole Liam thing is beyond irritating. I don't why anyone needs to "prove" they are the biggest "stans" of a character. Characters not real people, even if I do spend a lot of time discussing them, I can recognize that. I even saw a few people saying that pro-Liam people like him only because he has a d*ck. This is like the kerfuffle over the CS marriage thing. These tumblr social justice warriors can be soooo self-righteous sometimes. People are allowed to have their own opinions. This fandom-policing BS is the reason why I unfollowed a bunch of people and stopped engaging too much on tumblr. 

Edited March 24, 2016 by Rumsy4

[mjgchick]

Looks like Tyler Shields is trying to get a photo shoot done with JMo and Colin for real. I hope the fandom doesn't ruin it because it could be cute. On the other hand its Tyler Shields whose so weird with his "art"

[InsertWordHere]

 We also frame a lot of our conversations around the writing, versus talking about the characters as if they're living people, so that might result in a little distance.

This is the big thing for me. On tumblr, if you criticize the writing, you are somehow considered an anti-fan. I am still a fan of this show, but I think the writing tends to be subpar, even for characters and ships I enjoy. I strongly dislike how they handled the Dark Hook arc, for example, and I don't think they should have had Emma go after him in the Underworld before she realized he was being eternally tortured. It doesn't mean I hate the character or anything like that. On the other side, I mostly disliked Neal, but I hated that they killed him off the way they did. On tumblr, that nuance is lost. You have to be either "Yay! CS is the best!" or "OMG stop Once Upon a Hook. He is ruining the show."

 

And that is where I really draw the line with the particular anti-fans who somehow think all the problems with this show would go away if Hook left. I don't even think the problems would go away if Regina left, and I lay a lot of the skewed morality of the writers and the sidelining of the Charmings at the feet of that character. If Regina was killed off the next episode and her soul somehow destroyed with no possibility of return, I don't think the Charmings would suddenly get their show back, because the writers have proven they have very little interest in the Charmings. Just like if Hook left it wouldn't suddenly be the Outlaw Queen or Rumbelle or Swan Queen show. It would be the Zelena or Hades or whoever is part of the next arc show. 

Edited March 25, 2016 by InsertWordHere

[rainbowstickers]

Did something happen to Jared (Gilmore) on Twitter? I'm seeing the Twitter handle Once Upon A Spoiler (@UponASpoiler) call out people for attacking Jared and his family.

Edit: Nevermind. It seems people are giving Jared hate on his Twitter for something CS related he posted. People are crazy...

Edited March 25, 2016 by rainbowstickers

[daxx]

He tweeted #CaptainSwan Reunited. Nuff said.

[rainbowstickers]

SwanQueen is not and has never been canon. Meaning as far as the writers are concerned, all the interactions Regina and Emma have had on the show have never been to give the impression they have some underlying secret sexual chemistry going on. Fine, I will acknowledge SwanQueen is a very popular ship, but it's still a non canon ship, as much as FrankenWolf (Ruby and Whale) or MulanRouge (Ruby and Mulan) are at this point because those relationships haven't been written into the show as romances. The characters have chemistry and have bonded with each other on screen, but that's all.

I'm not too happy with Adam's most recent script tease because it's obviously going to be taken by the Swen shippers as some romantic implication between the women.

I don't think it's wrong for Jen and Lana to show support for SwanQueen because it's a ship born out of the fandom, and this isn't the first time in any fandom that a non canon ship has been formed when the characters on the show aren't actually romantically interested in each other. However, I think some people take it too far by demanding SwanQueen happen on air. I remember the hashtag "We Want SwanQueen" and that it was being tweeted at Adam by numerous Swen shippers. That was really the most "wtf?" moment for me. It's a non canon ship! You people badgering Adam and begging him to write it into the show as LGBT representation is pathetic and ridiculous. This is another thing I dislike very much about some Swen shippers. They use SwanQueen as validation as a "real" LGBT couple that should happen in OUAT. I'm not against LGBT, I'm against people pushing for a ship when that's clearly not the direction the characters are moving towards on the show. Especially after Adam's comic con answer towards a fan who asserted that SwanQueen was in the writing and acting. I'm all for the writers doing a LGBT couple and have been looking toward to it, but for OUAT's sake, it is not and will never be SwanQueen.

Edited March 26, 2016 by rainbowstickers

[Faemonic]

I'm not too happy with Adam's most recent script tease because it's obviously going to be taken by the Swen shippers as some romantic implication between the women.

You mean this:

 

 

Emma: Maybe this was a bad idea. I should have gone with them.

Regina: Would you relax? People are starting to stare at us.

Ehh...A lot to unpack there.

 

First, it's an ongoing show. I suspect that Sleeping Warrior was not the direction they wanted to initially take, but once that got thought up, once that became popular, someone in the writer's room decided why not they could totally get away with it as long as these lesbians don't actually do anything. So, I think that shows that creator intention can still be susceptible to influence. Adam's comic con answer to the Swen representative was years ago. My intuitions lean sharply towards that A&E's creative block on that remains very much the same, despite Adam's more queerbait-y script teases like the one where Elsa thanked Emma for helping get her out of the closet (which I would have thought should have rendered Adam's scriptteases across the board as queerrepellant by now, actually. Because what the actual what? It was Captain Ooh Shiny got Elsa out of SparkleDark's closet...the scripttease above is neutral, if anything on the Twitter Once fandom can be.) But they might still pull something like a Bryke. We'll never know until it's happened. What's pulling a Bryke?

(Bryke, for those not hip to the jive, refer to the creators of the cartoon Legend of Aang and the spinoff Legend of Korra both on Nickelodeon, which has treated these creators like garbage. I mean, it looks to me as though they forced Bryke to work with M. Night Shyamalan, whose talent and vision is not only eclipsed by his directorial ego but was completely inappropriate for the screen adaptation of Bryke's cartoon series. We all watched in horror as Shyamalan sucked the souls out of our favorite characters, but Bryke would be forced to smile about it because that's just good business politics. The rumors I've heard were that when Nickelodeon's publicity ad whatever people completely and utterly failed to promote the spinoff, Bryke changed the story to make Korra and Asami an explicitly lesbian couple...out of spite to the network. Fans were happy because a sizable fan faction considered these character romantically compatible, so it had been a fanon couple for a while. Someone who's actually kept up with the series behind-the-scenes dramas and rumor mills would know more than I would about what really happened, though, so I'm open to corrections on this! If it is true, though, umm... #HaveHope=#HaveSpite better? Somehow I am not encouraged by any mainstream impetus for LGBT representation lately.)

 

Second, I'm mostly for "the birth of the reader comes at the death of the author" school of storytelling analysis. I used to say I'm all for it, but when the aforementioned reader refuses to own their interpretation like "this is how I interpret it / my headcanon is that..." or even "I've got this alternate universe of the show going on in my head where.../ ...this has inspired me to create a character sort of like this but with more..." and instead shunts it to the work itself (without evidence from the work, which defeats the purpose of analysis) or to the creator (defeats the purpose of the death of the author) then, yeah... Fandom, we need to talk about boundaries. Confounding the Issue is opposite helpful, even if you count everybody losing as a win.

 

If shippers take that script tease as validation...well, let them. I mean, we're not even in any position to let or make anybody anything; I really think that's the prerogative of the reader to interpret it as they will. That interpretation, in and of itself, won't get anybody on the main cast sacked and imprisoned for false accusations of sexual harassment or something...to take an example completely at random that has nothing at all to do with what bad apples have been up to at any time this month recently.

 

tl;dr I get the irritation/discomfort, but'd say it's okay to keep chill.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Faemonic

[rainbowstickers]

Yeah... I'd say Adam definitely knows what's up with the fandom because of the queer-baity script teases.  I'm not really sure what his motivation for that is. Is he trying to get people interested in the show because he knows the script teases can leave much to the imagination if the context is not given? And when I say "people", I mean everyone in the fandom, regardless of who is being shipped. Sometimes I'm not sure if I'm reading too hard between the lines of a script tease and seeing some LGBT implication in those few script words without the proper scene context of what is going on, or what.

Edited March 26, 2016 by rainbowstickers

[mjgchick]

I think he just wants a reaction. He knows it will get people talking. He should've used a Cruella and David/James script tease if he really wanted a rise. Damn give Snowing something Adam. Let them sweat or excited for a minute.

[Eolivet]

One thing I like about this forum is that we do allow shades of gray. You can like Regina but not be satisfied with her "redemption." You can enjoy Rumple even while thinking he's a bastard. You can like Hook but think he has impulse control issues. We do tend to be rather anti-Regina, but I don't think we've driven off or silenced anyone who was willing to discuss her.

 

I'd say that's true for everyone except Neal. I mean, for goodness sakes, the man is dead and even his death doesn't inure him from hatred. The fact that Henry dared use a song that his father liked, the fact that Emma didn't apparently kick him in the shins and yell at him that he ruined her life when she saw him again in the Underworld(ish) to the fact that all of his faults and flaws should be referenced by the show and that we should never be allowed to forget what a bad person he was in life, because that's totally something we do with people who've died who aren't mass murderers or something. I've seen "Bagel" casually tossed around and the utter refusal to call Snow and Charming's baby by his proper name because: eww, Neal cooties, or something.

 

And I've never understood it -- honestly, truly never gotten it. I mean, say all of this when the guy is alive, but The. Man. Is. Dead and has been for three years (our time -- which I think means even shorter in show time). He's not a threat to Emma and Hook and he's Henry's father in name only (cannot and never will be a father figure). The desire to have the dead utterly slandered in a way nobody even suggests for like...Peter Pan, who actually did some malicious, terrible, awful, no good, very bad stuff is completely baffling to me.

 

I admit Neal was nowhere near perfect, but honestly, it's like every character should go spit on his grave and the show should run his name through the mud instead of remembering him as a man Emma did love at one point in her life who is now dead. Honestly, I've hated characters on TV shows -- really despised them -- and have wished every single bad thing would happen to them, but once they left, it's like they're gone, no longer a threat to my ship, no longer taking up screen time and no longer a real factor in the show. And especially if they die. I'm sorry, once they die, I think it's perfectly fine to remember the good things and let the bad things fade. After all, they are dead and can no longer defend themselves nor make amends for anything they did in life. No reason to keep punishing them for it in death.

 

I mean, I think the show could reveal that it was really Neal running the Underworld and not Hades, and a large majority of discussion would be "I knew it!" That's how large I think the Neal blindspot is.

[KingOfHearts]

If that script tease isn't a bait, I don't know what is. It's like that Rumpbelle one about Belle playing with Rumple's "toys". You know there's an agenda... even if it's to troll.

 

 

We do tend to be rather anti-Regina, but I don't think we've driven off or silenced anyone who was willing to discuss her.

I used to feel a little driven off, but it has gotten better. There was a lot of Regina hate after 3B during the Marian debacle and following the Mary Sue light magic ascension. But since then she has gotten some decent redemptive scenes and some characters have been allowed to voice anti-Regina sentiments. While her writing is still heavily flawed, I find viewers who don't care for her can tolerate her more because of the focus on other things like Captain Swan. She only gets one centric per arc nowadays, which is very different from S2/S3.

Edited March 26, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Faemonic]

Sometimes I'm not sure if I'm reading too hard between the lines of a script tease and seeing some LGBT implication in those few script words without the proper scene context of what is going on, or what.

That's another problem I have with the insistence that Swan Queen is canon, or even the pushback against the assertions that it isn't: I take it to mean that these viewers have settled for less than explicit.

 

Although if you infer LGBT implication from texts you don't consciously want to, why would that be? I still say you can't read too hard between the lines, as long as you own your interpretation, and/or can argue for how that interpretation connects to the work and the context of the part of the work (whether in-show context or in-fandom context.)

 

I'd say that's true for everyone except Neal. I mean, for goodness sakes, the man is dead and even his death doesn't inure him from hatred.

 

(...)

 

I mean, I think the show could reveal that it was really Neal running the Underworld and not Hades, and a large majority of discussion would be "I knew it!" That's how large I think the Neal blindspot is.

Personally, I despise Neal's characterization, and I don't believe he should have been written off the show. He should have stayed on to actively process and resolve those numerous issues he introduced. He gets character growth, Emma gets character growth, Henry gets character growth...look under your seats, everybody gets character growth! I'm not actually saying death was too good for him, I am saying death was too easy. That's why I still don't give him or the writers a break. Neal is the embodiment of a dropped plot thread that has robbed us all of emotional payoff. Get back here, Neal. (I said the same thing about Zelena, but now I'm sort of sorry I did and the writers still only re-introduced her and then ushered her out the easy way that equally made no sense and robbed us all of emotional payoff. This show.)

 

I don't like to call Hook's half-brother Liam, either, those aren't because of Liam cooties but all this naming people after people nonsense gets ridiculous. I tried to get people on these boards to call him Willy but I think referring to Hook's navy brother as Liam Prime is awesomer. It's like...giant robotic Bernard Curry having plasma gun battles in outer space with Decepticons.

[rainbowstickers]

Oh my gosh. Now that KingsofHearts mentioned it, I actually remember the script tease about Rumple confronting Belle for playing with one of his toys. I blushed very hard seeing that on Twitter. Awkward...

Edited March 26, 2016 by rainbowstickers

[mjgchick]

I despise Neal because he hurt Emma. It has nothing to do with Hook and Emma as a couple. I've hated him literally since S1. I've never hated Regina even though she's done worse, she actually entertains me unlike Neal who did nothing but leave a bad taste in my mouth. Also? The show didn't give him a chance to redeem himself. He didn't die a hero, he died an idiot (same for Liam tbh.) but the show will continue to act like he never did any wrong doings to Emma. Even when he was alive he made a joke out of how hurt Emma was.

As for Adam's script tease, I think he knows what he's doing. I still don't call what he does with Emma and Regina as queerbaiting. What he does with Mulan how ever is because he still refuses to tell us if Mulan is talking about Aurora or Phillip as the person she loves. Until Mulan and Ruby declares their love for each other that will piss me off more but of course the same people wanting representation dont really care for the Mulan character. Where is the outrage over her characterization?

[Rumsy4]

I actually don't see any gay subtext in that script tease. Is it because it's an Emma & Regina one? If we start looking into every little thing Adam does as queerbaiting, it will start sucking the joy out of everything. Regina and Emma are two of the main leads of the Show. They are going to have scenes together, and it will be promoted. We can't control how people interpret things. Just becasue some fans take it as gay subtext doesn't mean the subtext is there, or that's the direction the Show is going. 

 

We should take any further discussion of Neal to his character thread.