Fandom and Viewer Issues: "Fan" Is Short for "Fanatic"

[FormerMod-a1]

I know we toe a fine line here with discussing fandom in general, but please remember keep it civil.  Most of you have been, but some recent posts have been on the line or even over it.  You can disagree about fandom movements and reactions without being a rude and condescending. 

 

You can keep saying things like "I can't believe such-and-such fandom is doing X! That's crazy!"

 

Please refrain from adding things like "I bet they're horrendous to live with in real life."

[RedKeep]

 

I don't see them yelling at Adam for how Marian was treated where both Mills sisters ended up being the reason why Roland lost his mom? Where you at guys? Where's the petition to bring back Mulan? Where's the petition to keep Lancelot alive or actually give Rapunzel something to do?

That's one of my biggest issues with the loud parts of their fandom. They claim the issue is the show's general treatment of minority groups, and it's true that OUAT undeniably has issues there, but then no one seems to care enough about the few POC or LGTB characters the show does have to fight for them.

 

When they're called out on that the response is often that they don't want token characters. And I get that, to some degree, too. The Mulan story was poorly written and definitely felt like a half-hearted attempt to placate people who'd hoped a show that once promised to put a new spin on fairytales would manage to include at least one major LGTB character. But then discuss that. Explain to them why that story didn't work and what they need to do better. Explain why it's important that it's not just someone who appears in 1-2 episodes and then disappears, never to be seen again, either.

 

But instead they go with what feels like and is sometimes openly referred to as a "SQ or nothing" approach and that's incredibly frustrating for those who do care about the same issues they're hiding behind. Because their approach does a lot more harm than good. And it's so very transparent. The fake care many of them expressed over Marian/Christie Laing as long as they could use her as a shield to hide behind with their obvious Robin/Sean Maguire/OQ hate was incredibly embarrassing.

 

And the minute the show pulled their Marian = Zelena twisted, they dropped Marian/Christie like a hot potato to "ship" Robin Hood with the woman who must be considered his rapist. Because regardless of what one thinks about Robin Hood, what that stunt Zelena pulled was rape by deception. But that's totally okay because it's a man and one of the two men they hate more than anything else on top of that. That kind of hypocrisy only makes it easier for the writers to ignore the issues that continue to be a problem in their writing and brush them aside because the loudest voices are so obviously biased and can't be taken serious. Lovely.

[retrograde]

Charming behaviour in Steveston yesterday, apparently

Basically it was more of the same: people ambushing the actors, not respecting that they are working, acting like entitled babies, etc.

 

For some reason, the OUAT fandom believes that The Rules Do Not Apply to them. If security says “stand here, stay here” people will literally RUN ONTO SET AND BACK INTO THEIR DRESSING AREA. They will even literally stalk the actors back to their trailers.
 

When the actors got into the vans to leave, after already having dealt with the fans being disrespectful, people were chasing the van and banging on the windows trying to get the actors’ attention.

 

[Souris]

Good Lord, people! Were you raised in a zoo??

[legaleagle53]

Good Lord, people! Were you raised in a zoo??

 

I doubt it.  Zoo animals would know better than to act like that.  

 

See, people?  THIS is why we can't have nice things!

Edited August 23, 2015 by legaleagle53

[Serena]

They need to get better security, if they're letting the fans ambush the actors like that. That shouldn't be happening.

[Serena]

I don't know if this is too OT to go there, but I've just been sent (really amusing) links to SHIELD wank, and I've found the pro-Ward/anti-Ward wank REALLY similar to the pro-Rumple/Regina-anti-R/R wanks in this fandom. Except I think the anti-Ward people are EVEN more over the top in their hatred than the OUAT fandom, which considering what goes on in this fandom/forum I didn't think was possible.

 

I haven't actually watched that show since like episode 4, but I think there's a kind of "fandom rethoric" that gets reclycled a lot. "Redemption is beautiful and it's actually the good guys who are hypocrites for not forgiving/heroes have done things just as bad!" versus "how can you support a mass murderer and rapist?!", plus various social justices catch phrases.

[sharky]

There were some photos posted on tumblr of Colin leaving Any Given Sundae to shoot scenes and they seemed a little off to me. Like security was right there and there didn't seem to be other fans around and he didn't really seem to be acknowledging the person taking the photos. The whole thing seemed a bit off. Now I know why. Who are these people? It's the same as the fans with photos of Colin and Josh looking like caged animals at the studio.

Anyway, I can't tell if this is a common sense reaction or if my five years in NYC made me jaded about seeing celebrities.

[mtsmvfn]

There were some photos posted on tumblr of Colin leaving Any Given Sundae to shoot scenes and they seemed a little off to me. Like security was right there and there didn't seem to be other fans around and he didn't really seem to be acknowledging the person taking the photos. The whole thing seemed a bit off. Now I know why. Who are these people? It's the same as the fans with photos of Colin and Josh looking like caged animals at the studio.

Anyway, I can't tell if this is a common sense reaction or if my five years in NYC made me jaded about seeing celebrities.

The person who posted those pictures said that It was a total suprise that Colin came out of there. They said that he couldn't stop because he was rushing to set. Don't if its true but the reactions of some bystanders it really looks that they were not expecting Colin to come out of that door.

[Souris]

From the spoiler thread:

 

I had to roll my eyes at that latest post from the pap who stalks the set, about the crew not letting fans closer. Newsflash, some OUAT fans are creepy and invasive, and if I were part of the crew I would NOT want to risk some of the cast getting hurt and being my fault. The fans aren't ENTITLED to watching spoilery filming.

 

 

Given the stuff we heard happened in Steveston last Friday, no wonder the crew won't let fans closer! It's a cause and effect. I want spoilery filming pictures as much as the next person, but if some fans are going to be assholes and invasive of the cast, then I'm 100% OK with the crew keeping fans far away.

[Serena]

And then when the guy went "Shows that win AWARDS don't do this." - uhm, find me a report about the set of Mad Men being overrun by screaming fans? Actually, I haven't found *any* show that has the amount of filming access that Once has. And you don't need to be an award winning show to be annoyed by that - cast and crew deserve to work in peace regardless. 

YMMV, but I think the actors should stop signing autographs for dudes like him. It's ridiculous that he's allowed to sell them to fans for profit - he's taking advantage. Usually actors have fan mail addresses and they'll sign stuff for you if you send them something, right?

[kili]

Actually, I haven't found *any* show that has the amount of filming access that Once has.

Any show that films in public places has the same amount of access. You film on a public street and the public can watch. Cities can grant you a filming permit, but they don't want to force the stores to close down. You bet that they would expect even more compensation and lobby for no filming in their area if their customers were prevented from accessing them Filming already makes it tough for those businesses. 

 

Most filming gets ignored except for some curious rubber-necking,  but the crowds around once seem to be getting bigger and bigger. 

 

Once does a lot of outdoor filming due to the nature of the show and that also contributes.  Fans who go to watch should behave or perhaps the writers will switch more scenes to be inside buildings (or have a repeat of filming outside scenes in a set like they did when they are in Neverland).

[OnceUponAJen]

I can imagine what a logistical nightmare it can be to shoot amongst the public. I ran into this situation a few times in downtown Atlanta. A shootout was being filmed downtown, so all businesses had to be warned about what was going on. Also, Cuba Gooding Jr shot a scene for a movie in the lobby of the building where I worked, so that was blocked off for a short while one day.

Edited August 25, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[YaddaYadda]

I used to go to this school that had a gorgeous campus and it was right on the water, so we had some of that. You know, I was sitting by my locker with a couple of friends and Pierce Brosnan passed by and said hello on his way which when you're 17 is kind of a big deal and Pierce Brosnan was not too hard on the eyes. Same when I worked in the Old Montreal. There were tons of movie productions, they would bar the streets, but that was more of a bitch for me because I had a car to park and they used to take over the parking lot. That Benjamin Button movie? Not cool!

 

It's about boundaries on both sides though and there seems to be more and more people at the Once set, which can become overwhelming for everyone in the end. I'm hoping it's a side effect of it being summer and that it will dwindle a bit with school picking up again. 

 

But that dude needs to shut his pie hole.  How entitled are you!

[Serena]

Any show that films in public places has the same amount of access. You film on a public street and the public can watch. Cities can grant you a filming permit, but they don't want to force the stores to close down. You bet that they would expect even more compensation and lobby for no filming in their area if their customers were prevented from accessing them Filming already makes it tough for those businesses. 

You're right, but I meant that not many shows have so many public places. I'm thinking back to all the shows I follow and I used to follow, and even the ones who occasionally film outside (Vancouver ones like SPN and Arrow) never have 100+ fans on set during shoots. The only one I can remember, where both paps and fans had access and lots of spoilers came out that way, was Gossip Girl. Many plot points were spoiled that way, exactly how it happens on Once. But I don't think they had the crowds Once has, either. 

[sharky]

I wonder how big of an issue this really is when Larry is the one complaining about it. He did the same thing a month or so ago and when people called him out and said exactly what is being said here, he pulled some nonsense about how it wasn't about him but the fans that were there. Yeah right. The guy makes money by selling autographs. He's probably just getting pissed that there are too many fans getting in the way of his "job" if you can call it that.

I have no doubt that there are some crazy fans who don't understand boundaries, but this is the same as the whole SQ "hacker" drama. At some point you're going to cross the line between people being genuinely concerned and people thinking you're just creating drama.

[Serena]

I wonder how big of an issue this really is when Larry is the one complaining about it. He did the same thing a month or so ago and when people called him out and said exactly what is being said here, he pulled some nonsense about how it wasn't about him but the fans that were there. Yeah right. The guy makes money by selling autographs. He's probably just getting pissed that there are too many fans getting in the way of his "job" if you can call it that.

That's exactly what I think. I haven't seen any fans there complaining about it. Larry, who's been pissed at the show and insulting to the actors since the beginning, and who on Twitter seems to have a new actress/actor he rags on every week for not paying him enough attention when he stalks them, is the only one who seems to have a problem. The "but you haven't WON ANY EMMYS" thing takes it over the top, like Emmy nominated shows are the only ones who need a quiet working environment? 

[Amerilla]

Without being there, it's hard to tell a whole lot about what happened at the filming.

 

I saw two side-by-side set reports on Tumblr - the "heinous and disrespectful" one and another that said it was a pretty low-key night, except for one very drunk man who was eventually tasered and carried off by local police. Not even clear if Drunk Guy was a fan, or just Stevenson-tonian who had a few too many.

 

The key difference between "heinous" and "low-key" is that Low-Key seems to be a regular visitor to the open sets, and Heinous traveled for the occasion and then didn't get to meet anyone.

[Curio]

I was perusing the OUAT Reddit page and saw a thread asking male viewers who their favorite characters are. The vast majority said Rumple and Regina, with a few sprinklings of some other random villains thrown in there. Very few to none of them said any "good guy" or hero characters. (I don't think I saw a single vote for Snow or Charming.) A lot of them also said they love the dynamic between Regina/Henry, Regina/Robin, and Regina/Emma. I'm just curious, for any of the guy posters here, who are your favorite characters and relationships?

[Serena]

I would guess those are people who are not super invested in the show, so obviously when they watch they would be attracted to the more "flashy" characters with lots of snarky one liners/big dramatic murder scenes. I'm not surprised.

[KingOfHearts]

I'll reply with my personal "guy perspective" in the Unpopular Opinions thread.

[mjgchick]

My brother loves the blonde sheriff lady, Captain Hook and Snow White. I have some other guy friends on social media who likes everyone some despises Rumpled and his spawn. That's the male point of view I've seen in real life and social media.

[Samsala]

Lurker turned first time poster here. I don't know where else to say this, but I loathe real person shipping so much. I hate how in one of the OuaT fandoms on twitter it's becoming harder every day to escape fans who ship not only fictional characters but their actors too.

[daxx]

Welcome and yes I unfollow people as soon as I see them shipping real people. It is actually more than one fandom, the rumbelle and captain swan fandoms both have real life shippers. There are even some in the swan queen fandom that are convinced Jennifer Morrison is gay or bi but just not out of the closet. There is squickiness in every fandom I think if you look closely.

[Curio]

Welcome aboard, Samsala! I think the only fans who ship real life people are young tween-teenagers who don't know that their behavior is crossing a line. That's why I only lurk on Tumblr and Twitter and keep my posts to this message board because the fandom drama and crazies can get annoying.

[Serena]

Oh, no, shipping real people is a time-honored tradition for all ages. For every "Larry" fanbase full of teenage girls, there's a "Robsten" fanbase who is a mix of teenagers and older women, and I believe the people of that whacky "spn_gossip" community take the cake, and they are at least in their twenties (SPN is 10 years old, so they have to be!!). Compared to them, OUAT has it easy.

[mjgchick]

Welcome. Yep, Or can't handle people who real life ship. I don't care who you are that shits creepy. These people have real lives after the word "Thats a wrap." I think the Jennifer/Colin and Jennifer/Lana shippers are the worse when it comes to this.

Edited September 1, 2015 by mjgchick

[Souris]

I know quite a few people don't see anything wrong with real-people shipping, and I can see how it happens because fans see chemistry between two actors and co-star romances are fairly common in Hollywood, but it makes me uncomfortable and I find it inappropriate. I would feel super squicked-out if anybody was speculating about my love life or thinking I belonged with Person A instead of Person B. Or were talking about how my significant other belonged with somebody other than me. We don't know any of these people, and I don't think actors should have to give up their privacy or being treated like real people simply because they're actors. Their personal lives are none of our damn business.

 

Also, in my experience, co-star romances hardly ever work out long-term and can end up seriously affecting the show, so I'm not sure anybody would be wise wishing for that if they ship the couple on-screen! For every Paul Newman/Joanne Woodward, there are a lot more Jennifer Garner/Michael Vartan situations. ::bad Alias flashbacks::

[sharky]

Oh gawd, the Alias flashbacks. Because breaking up with your co-star wasn't awkward enough, you had to spend the last season pregnant on the show with his baby while someone else was the father in real life. Anyways....

 

I think part of the real-person shipping may be due to the fact that these people may not have had a significant relationship in their own lives. I've always found real-person shipping a little squicky but even more so after I got married. I mean, I feel awful enough for the actors involved but even worse for people like Colin's wife, who seems like an amazing woman. Colin seems to truly love her and vice versa. So I can't imagine what it's like for her to have her husband's co-worker defend her marriage on Twitter, which is what JMo had to do several months ago. Just weird all around.

[RedKeep]

I find it extremely weird to ship real people to begin with because so much of it must be based on projection and wishful thinking and I imagine what you end up with is a situation where you're basically writing fanfic in your head all the time. I know it's not uncommon and in some cases the media/publicity machinery plays into it as well, but I still find it incredibly strange and it's not exactly something I can relate to.

 

In my personal fandom experiences over the years it was always an extension of shipping the characters said actors are playing on the show. Fans ship the characters first and then start to ship the actors too. I guess in a way that's what's made it even weirder for me because it blurrs the line between fiction and reality, characters and actors, so much that I don't know why anyone would actually want that. Especially if the characters are already a couple on the show. But then I wonder if it has something to do with looking for the next 'kick' after the show has given you what you want in fiction and the level of excitement left to be gained from that is limited... so fans try to repeat that experience of falling in love with a ship, rooting for it and waiting/hoping for it to develop in the way they want to by projecting their feelings for the characters onto the actors. By speculating they're having a secret affair and fans are the only ones who are onto them by putting the "clues" together or whatever.

 

Anyway, apart from not being able to understand the appeal, I'm honestly annoyed by it if it involves actors who are happily married and have families. I remember being in the OUAT fandom when some of the Rumbellers who also shipped EdR/RC were called out on it, pointing out that RC has children who are old enough to come across some of this on the internet. I *think* like the EdR/RC shipping the LP/JM shipping has died down somewhat over time (or those fans are just not being very obvious about it anymore) since Parrilla got married and became a step-mom to three teenage boys, but techncially the same is true there as well. Think about being one of those kids and you end up coming across people who write fanfiction about one of your parents having an affair with a co-star. Beyond weird.

 

And something I read in a post about "Colifer" shipping yesterday (because that's what brought some of this debate up again, I think - some being vocal about shipping them on Twitter after the Christina Perri concert on Sunday) is very true: In the days of LiveJournal and the like these things would happen almost exclusively in closed communities, not completely out in public for everyone with internet access to see. But in the days of Twitter and Facebook and what else the liklihood that the actors or those close to them come across real person shipping is even higher than before. Even if you don't count those crazy enough to actually tweet the actors directly about it.

[Stuffy]

 I *think* like the EdR/RC shipping the LP/JM shipping has died down somewhat over time (or those fans are just not being very obvious about it anymore) since Parrilla got married and became a step-mom to three teenage boys, but techncially the same is true there as well. Think about being one of those kids and you end up coming across people who write fanfiction about one of your parents having an affair with a co-star. Beyond weird.

No there are still people that believe Jennifer is gay/bi and in love with Lana.  They analyze every touch and look like just like the colifer shippers do.  They made a big deal about Jennifer helping Lana up on the stage at the Paris convention this summer.  Also some of them have moved on to Jennifer and Rose which is why you may not notice it as much.

[Serena]

Well, at least Jennifer and Rose appear to be single and actually good friends. It's progress?

Edited September 1, 2015 by Serena

[pezgirl7]

I like seeing co-stars interact with each other, like when Jen and Colin do interviews together, or Colin shows up at soccer games with his co-stars. But I can't remember ever shipping real people romantically. I suppose some could think there was a fine line between the two, but I do find the romantic shipping, especially when the people already have a significant other, pretty strange. What do the shippers get out of it? Can't they just be happy with the friendships and the on-screen couples?

[RadioGirl27]

I don't understad the logic behind shipping real people, I find it weird and a bit gross.

[mjgchick]

Remember when Josh and Ginny were just co-stars and both had significant others? Those were dark times and then they actually did end up together. I saw fans asking yesterday about them cheating on their significant others and I just want to block out that whole thing.

[CatMack]

I get thinking actual real life relationships between costars are adorable.  The fact that Snow White and Prince Charming are married in real life is stinking cute beyond words.  The stunt doubles for Max and Furiosa falling in love on the set of Mad Max Fury Road and getting married?  Again, they're adorable and precious and it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling because happy relationships are delightful and that's a great "how we met" story.  But those are actual real relationships.  And thinking "hey, that's really cute" isn't a particularly deep emotional investment.  It's when people get really attached to the idea of a relationship that doesn't actually exist, to the point of acting like real people are just characters they can move around in a story like dolls, is bizarre to me.  You'd think I'd be used to it by now, but nope.  And I do think the proximity to actors on social media like twitter, as apposed to back in the livejournal days and before where fandom was more segregated, makes it creepier.

[Serena]

People are being so freaking petty on Twitter right now. So what if a SQ shipper took the photo of Jennifer wearing the Dark Swan t-shirt and photoshopped it with the Red Valentino swan logo? Like, who cares? It's not hurting anyone. There are 4343 manips for every single ship every day.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Serena

[Souris]

I don't think it's petty at all. If it were any other original shirt, it wouldn't be outside of the norm or a big deal, but for a fan to Photoshop out the design of a T-shirt designed for an ILLNESS CHARITY with a ship design and then tag JMo with it is not cool. It doesn't matter if it was a SQer or CSer who did it, it'd still be a tacky thing to do.

[Serena]

Agree to disagree on this. It's not actually hurting the charity, or anyone at all for them to manip it. The shirts seem to be selling well. SQers probably even bought some of them!

[Stuffy]

Remember when Josh and Ginny were just co-stars and both had significant others? Those were dark times and then they actually did end up together. I saw fans asking yesterday about them cheating on their significant others and I just want to block out that whole thing.

I'm still not convinced they even cheated because Josh's wife started seeing a new guy around the same time Josh and Ginny got together. I'm pretty sure he was already separated and divorcing when they started filming season one.

[Delphi]

I'm still not convinced they even cheated because Josh's wife started seeing a new guy around the same time Josh and Ginny got together. I'm pretty sure he was already separated and divorcing when they started filming season one.

I think that may be more along what happened. They announced their divorce like a month after the show premiered so it's not like they had spent tons of time together.

[myril]

Just sit back, take some popcorn, maybe a tequila shot and enjoy. Don't take this serious.

 

[tatterd]

If she didn't know that much about it before, she's summing it up pretty well in a lot of cases.

[HoodlumSheep]

Evil Queen with a Heart of Gold? Cool backstory?? Lol. I wonder if she'd feel the same after she learned Regina's backstory of evilness is based on her wanting revenge on a 10 year-old?

Anyways, other than the SQ nonsense, she's pretty accurate. They get cursed every season. Sometimes they're in a different location, and it can be very confusing at times.

[YaddaYadda]

25 main characters? Sounds about right!

[Curio]

I find it funny how she didn't even mention Outlaw Queen. It looks like the video was published September 2014, but OQ was definitely a big thing during 3B. Are OQ not really a thing on Tumblr?

[HoodlumSheep]

^ she didn't really mention Rumple either(who is very big part of the show).

[mjgchick]

She is me the first time I laid eyes on Captain Hook. I literally gasped at how pretty he was when that camera panned up to him on the ship.

Regina didn't have a heart at all in 3B right? I guess I can see why she'd think Regina has a heart of gold, that whole white magic non sense and she was nice mostly to Robin in 3B so theirs that. lol

I'm shocked she didn't talk much about RB. She treated them the way the writers do. Pay them dust.

Edited September 2, 2015 by mjgchick

[pezgirl7]

She is me the first time I laid eyes on Captain Hook. I literally gasped at how pretty he was when that camera panned up to him on the ship.

That was my favorite part of the video. I was waiting during her pause, wondering what she was going to say, and then I loved her response. She was pretty accurate about most things. I wonder what people or tags on tumblr she was looking at. That would make a big difference on how you view the show. Did she just view things in the OUAT tag to do the video, or does she just follow a lot of people? I would never be able to give as much detail as she did on the shows that I don't watch that come across my dash.

Edited September 2, 2015 by pezgirl7

[ABitOFluff]

Not a bad video, but I wanted more meat. It does make me feel like I should brush off (heh, brush up on? they're dusty either way) my comedy chops and make a funny OUAT vlog.

Edited September 2, 2015 by ABitOFluff