S01.E10: The Cantor’s Husband

[peeayebee]

No, she isn't Chava. Maybe I didn't explain clearly. First, Alan walks into the room -- at Auschwitz? -- and see Beth standing there. He starts to cry. When Chava (Ezra's wife) says, "Alan," it's coming from the next scene. Chava says, "Alan? Are you ok?" and the scene cuts to Alan sitting on the couch, lost in thought. He says, "Just a bad dream."

Interesting that 'chava' means life.

Edited October 26, 2022 by peeayebee

[Dminches]

I know I am in the minority of both really liking the 10 episode run and not being bothered by “plot gaps.”

With these types of shows I am much more interested in the character development and interactions between the characters. The plot has some importance but once Alan was a prisoner in Sam’s basement it became all about him, Sam, the mom and Alan’s therapist. Sure, I was interested in how it was going to end but that was more of a side note. Alan’s captivity allowed him to assess his relationship with his son and where he may be at fault. He also helped give the viewer insight into what a deranged mind like Sam’s was thinking about and how that could be swayed. That stuff is fascinating to me much more so than the “Law and Order” whodunit plot components.

(This is in no way a diss to those who are more interested in plot stuff. We all like different stuff.)

Edited October 26, 2022 by Dminches

[Guest]

7 hours ago, chaifan said:

I think Alan's last conversation with Candice was purposely very superficial.  His goal at that moment wasn't to counsel Candice, it was to spur an emotion so he could offer her the kleenex box (something we had seen him do before) so he could get close enough to grab her.  He had to have already been holding the sharpened tube, so he was going into that conversation with a plan.  (See my above comment re: suicide by serial killer.)  If he pushed her too much, she could have walked out. 

I didn’t mean in their last conversation but in the one early in the episode or at any other point in the show really. 

7 hours ago, chaifan said:

I'll disagree here.  I don't think the lack of a police investigation plot line is a "plot hole", it purposely just wasn't part of the show.  It's just not what the show was about.  Yeah, we're all curious about it, but there was obviously a conscious decision by the writers to not go there.

13 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

I feel like the show did go there to an extent even though we never saw the police. They went there with the conversation about the police and Sam being afraid of getting caught. Then when they have Sam devolving and leaving evidence and even a witness for that to amount to nothing is a plot hole for me.

Even worse I think it hurt the show from a character standpoint. We didn’t even need to see the police for there to be a sense of tension and strain on Sam and Candace from the police asking question even if they never suspect him. Sam’s job was a big aspect of the show and then it was just dropped at a point where they could have gone in a really interesting direction.

I guess I feel like the show worked really well as a character driven plot centered only Alan and dropped the ball on the other characters. 

[Eureka]

Having watched The Americans and LOVING that finale, (the train scene, omg!) I was disappointed in this ending. It just lacked something to me that I can’t put my finger on, however realistic it might have been.

[SassyCat]

Well, that’s that! 

[Cotypubby]

I was totally expecting Alan to have written a note with Sam’s name on it and hid it inside his clothes, he knew when he wrote that letter that it was basically a suicide note and he expected Sam to either kill him or let him go when he threatened the mother. I thought he would be smart enough to think of that since it was set up in previous episodes. Or write Sam’s name on his leg with the pen or something.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Cotypubby

[30 Helens]

12 hours ago, peeayebee said:

No, she isn't Chava. Maybe I didn't explain clearly. First, Alan walks into the room -- at Auschwitz? -- and see Beth standing there. He starts to cry. When Chava (Ezra's wife) says, "Alan," it's coming from the next scene. 

Ah, that makes sense. I didn’t remember the exact sequence of events, I was just going by what I read here. I also forgot that Ezra’s wife was named Chava. Thanks.

10 hours ago, Dminches said:

(This is in no way a diss to those who are more interested in plot stuff. We all like different stuff.)

Yes, and I agree. I do enjoy plot based stories as well, and if this were a plot-based story, I might be bothered by some things that were shown/ not shown. But it’s not.

I am reminded of what Roger Ebert used to say about his approach to movie criticism: I don’t remember his exact words, but basically he said he looked first to the filmmaker’s intent, and then judged the film by whether or not it achieved that intent. I thought this was a good approach, because it removes personal bias. I think this show achieved its intent.

[peeayebee]

I agree with you re what Ebert had said. There are genres of movies that I don't particularly care for, but if I happen to watch one, I can appreciate it for what it's doing.

[SunnyBeBe]

8 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

Ah, that makes sense. I didn’t remember the exact sequence of events, I was just going by what I read here. I also forgot that Ezra’s wife was named Chava. Thanks.

Yes, and I agree. I do enjoy plot based stories as well, and if this were a plot-based story, I might be bothered by some things that were shown/ not shown. But it’s not.

I am reminded of what Roger Ebert used to say about his approach to movie criticism: I don’t remember his exact words, but basically he said he looked first to the filmmaker’s intent, and then judged the film by whether or not it achieved that intent. I thought this was a good approach, because it removes personal bias. I think this show achieved its intent.

So, the writer’s intent with The Patient was……

[Milburn Stone]

2 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

So, the writer’s intent with The Patient was……

...to create the most extreme situation possible for Alan to see how he would deal with it.

[Soobs]

I liked this show but I would not recommend it to someone else. It was too depressing and the final episode when Sam was murdering Alan was really disturbing. The actors all did a great job and I definitely am still thinking about it. To me that's the sign of good writing and acting. But again, I do not recommend it. It was too big a bummer. I don't think I would have watched if Steve Carrell hadn't been in it so I kind of blame him, lol!

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, Soobs said:

I liked this show but I would not recommend it to someone else. It was too depressing and the final episode when Sam was murdering Alan was really disturbing. The actors all did a great job and I definitely am still thinking about it. To me that's the sign of good writing and acting. But again, I do not recommend it. It was too big a bummer. I don't think I would have watched if Steve Carrell hadn't been in it so I kind of blame him, lol!

Many of us enjoy dark shows, so go ahead and recommend it those you think might appreciate it .

[sistermagpie]

17 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

Yes, and I agree. I do enjoy plot based stories as well, and if this were a plot-based story, I might be bothered by some things that were shown/ not shown. But it’s not.

I am reminded of what Roger Ebert used to say about his approach to movie criticism: I don’t remember his exact words, but basically he said he looked first to the filmmaker’s intent, and then judged the film by whether or not it achieved that intent. I thought this was a good approach, because it removes personal bias. I think this show achieved its intent.

Yeah, it seemed central that we were only seeing Alan, Sam and their families, and none of them would be involved in the police investigation. Even Alan's family. They probably did go to the police, but then they would just have to wait. Ezra putting up fliers was him trying to do something, and they were picking up his mail etc., but they were mostly just dealing with their father's disappearance, not involved in a search to find him. On TV people are always in on that, but probably less true in life.

[Kdawg82]

Wow! Wow, wow, wow! I was hoping the circle would be closed for me and...it WAS! Loved this show.  Will miss it now. Amazing acting range for DG & SC. I need something more like this show for when I've got down time. 

[Elizzikra]

4 hours ago, Kdawg82 said:

Wow! Wow, wow, wow! I was hoping the circle would be closed for me and...it WAS! Loved this show.  Will miss it now. Amazing acting range for DG & SC. I need something more like this show for when I've got down time. 

Maybe The Sinner on Netflix? 

[SunnyBeBe]

On 10/27/2022 at 4:26 PM, Cinnabon said:

Many of us enjoy dark shows, so go ahead and recommend it those you think might appreciate it .

Have you watched Silent Witness?  It has many seasons.  It’s free on Freevee though Prime.  It’s about murder investigations through the eyes of forensic techs and medical examiners, set in England.  It’s pretty good.  Can be gruesome.  Also, series The Chestnut Man….I think it’s on Netflix.  

I think Alan being saved would be a very viable option for the show.  Jaycee Dugard, Amanda Berry and others were rescued or escaped after years of captivity.  So, it does happen.   

[Cinnabon]

5 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Have you watched Silent Witness?  It has many seasons.  It’s free on Freevee though Prime.  It’s about murder investigations through the eyes of forensic techs and medical examiners, set in England.  It’s pretty good.  Can be gruesome.  Also, series The Chestnut Man….I think it’s on Netflix.  

I think Alan being saved would be a very viable option for the show.  Jaycee Dugard, Amanda Berry and others were rescued or escaped after years of captivity.  So, it does happen.   

I enjoyed “The Chestnut Man.”

[aussieinsydney]

Ugh.

Also, I think if the police had've found the note left in Elias' mouth, it probably would've been all over the news and Alan would've met his death by and enraged Sam a lot earlier.

[SunnyBeBe]

On 11/3/2022 at 8:29 PM, aussieinsydney said:

Ugh.

Also, I think if the police had've found the note left in Elias' mouth, it probably would've been all over the news and Alan would've met his death by and enraged Sam a lot earlier.

Or, the police keep the note secret and then raid the house with a search warrant.  Lol. 

[raven]

On 10/25/2022 at 9:39 PM, chaifan said:

One change I would have made, though, would have been a final shot of Alan tucking a note into the fold of his pants, or shoe, or some place to be found with his body.  Or Ezra referring to him doing such at his therapy session.  I would have liked to have known that even if Alan couldn't save himself, he took action that would have saved others.  (Like he tried with the note with the restaurant guy.)

This.  I was absolutely expecting this.  The other possibility was some kind of message in the letter to his kids.  Alan should have been clever enough to outsmart Sam at this point and I thought the show was laying the groundwork for that - the note in Elias's mouth, Sam getting sloppy with his kills.  Killing his boss should have brought the police sniffing around.   We didn't get enough of a sense of Sam's father to just assume "oh, he won't tell anyone that Sam tried to kill him".   That was silly.   He stalks restaurant guy for months, restaurant guy disappears and there are no leads about the truck always parked there?  No one scratched him during a struggle and got his DNA on them?  

It almost felt like the show wanted to have it both ways; they wanted Alan to ultimately take control of his fate (death by serial killer) yet it not be an overtly physical altercation where he attacks Sam.  Alan had a freaking SHOVEL in his hands a few eps prior and doesn't attack Sam with it nor does he attempt to break his chain when Sam leaves for a long period of time.  Maybe both of these would have been futile gestures and Alan wasn't ready for death at that point but I don't know, at least try?   It felt like the show wanted Alan to win the battle of wills but he was actually losing and not realizing it.  I noted in my first post, after watching through ep 5, that Sam never asks Alan what he wants to eat.   When that finally does happen, Alan is too far gone to care.  However, Alan never really appears beaten down to the viewers, giving us hope that he will be successful in escaping.   I get that Sam essentially moving Alan in with the extra furniture was the last straw for Alan but I didn't really see him as being worn down yet.  

So as I'm typing maybe Alan did win the battle of wills - he made Sam kill him, which Sam didn't want to do.   Yet Alan did have chances.  Maybe if he had killed Candance he would have had a chance to kill a distraught Sam.  Maybe if he had tried something with the water pitcher or the shovel.  Dead therapist Charlie comments that Alan is just has hard headed as Beth or Ezra.  Was Alan being essentially stubborn in not going out of his comfort zone to attempt an escape?   Then when he finally did attempt, he expected to be unsuccessful?  I knew he was unsuccessful when they cut to the family dinner.  I knew that wasn't real even before we saw Charlie.   I was hoping it wasn't a "death is imminent" vision and that he would recover but I wasn't expecting him to.

Sam locking himself in was a futile and unsatisfying gesture, though before that I was half expecting him to drag in the unconscious school counselor.   I did like the kind of snarky dead Alan saying "oh, you'll do it again".   I had zero sympathy for Sam, Candace and their issues.  I never got the feeling that Sam really wanted to be different than he was; more that he was looking for excuses to justify his actions.  Candace, at least, should have died, though Alan getting a killing swipe in at Sam, causing Candace to mentally collapse, would have worked for me too.

This worked as a binge, was well acted and tense but I'm not sure if I would have stuck with it week to week.  

[WAnglais1]

What the f was that f-ing bunch of f?

I expected Sam's mom to cold cock him with the pitcher when he was killing Allan. It's Chekhov's pitcher people! You don't make a big deal out of this pitcher and then not use it. 

I cannot even with this show. He locks himself up. That'll last about 20 minutes. "Mom, can you come down here? I need to be unlocked. That squirrel in the yard looked funny at me. I'm gonna kill him!"

I wasted all that time. The worst thing I've seen this year. Easily. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 10/26/2022 at 1:14 PM, 30 Helens said:

On 10/26/2022 at 11:58 AM, peeayebee said:

I'm certain the woman is Beth. Alan doesn't say anything, but we hear a woman say, "Alan?" with CC showing "Chava: Alan?" which bleeds over from the following scene, Alan's dream, of him with his family.

The woman is definitely Beth. I’m not sure why she is “Chava” here, but in Hebrew the name means “life”.  Make of that what you will.

On 10/25/2022 at 11:53 PM, Elizzikra said:

I thought so too but I'm pretty sure he called her "Chava."

First he saw his dead wife Beth in the "shower" at Auschwitz.  That was a nightmare within a dream.  Then his daughter-in-law Chava woke him up from the nightmare and he joined his entire family (except Beth), but including Ezra's in-laws, for Shabbat dinner, which he realized was also a dream (or a death vision) when he saw Charlie at the table.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 11/2/2022 at 1:54 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

I think Alan being saved would be a very viable option for the show.  Jaycee Dugard, Amanda Berry and others were rescued or escaped after years of captivity.  So, it does happen.   

But who would want to watch him being held captive for 10 years, the way Sam was planning to do?

[SunnyBeBe]

On 12/6/2022 at 3:52 AM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

But who would want to watch him being held captive for 10 years, the way Sam was planning to do?

They could jump forward in time or just have the rescue happen faster.  

[Anela]

I'm pissed that I watched this. That ending was awful. He killed someone he worked with, he killed someone who worked at a restaurant he inspected. (?) Those are linked. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Anela

[Corvino]

Okay, I marked this to watch last year but didn't get around to it till now. I join the group that is sorry we watched it. I am angry at the ending, to the point of not liking the fact that a lot of people here are praising it for its realism. As some have said, it's not the only realistic ending possible, and I want justice. I despised Sam so much when he killed Elias (triggered just by the poor guy's implication that his parents loved and cared about him), and I really, really wanted him to not get away with his deeds.

(I know it's not the subject of the show, but in the real world the police would have to catch up with Sam soon. He left his boss's body right out in the open, and he left clues when he dumped Alan. I can see the police detectives assembling their board: "Well, we know the killer isn't Jewish...")

But I will form a table for one-- especially since everybody else has finished watching and commenting, and therefore reading, long ago-- to say that I think the writers' intent was that Sam chaining himself up at the end did count. I deduce this from the fact that when he handed his mother the key, her expression was smiling and tearful: "Yes, this is how it should be." And their lingering handclasp, as if for the last time, said the same. So now he gets to pee into a bowl and not change his underwear till the cops show up in five days, or until he dies of starvation because his mother decides that should be part of the new policy.