Bitterness Thread

[4evaQuez]

I'm still bitter that the show gave Maggie a long-lost daughter in Summer instead of just using the actress to be a recast Melissa Horton. Right now seems like a great time for Melissa to be on canvas. She's Maggie's daughter, a Horton, Jennifer desperately needs a confidante now that Hope is gone, Sarah desperately needs a confidante that could appeal to her better side, Jack is on the show with his contentious history with Melissa, that also would give a reason for a recast Nathan Horton. Lastly, Melissa could discover Gwen was her long-lost daughter with Jack hell-bent on revenge against the Hortons and the Devereaux's. This would also open up Gwen's storyline possibilities instead of being stuck in the Chabby bubble that usually kills characters (Gabi, Stefan, and Andre being prime examples. I would add Dario but I don't know if he ever took off as a character).

Instead of giving us Maggie's second long-lost child, this actress could have filled a needed void that would have paid off with Days now since this new actress would have been well-established in the role by the time Hope left canvas and Jennifer was recast.

 

Someone else here already perfectly summed up why Daniel should have been Mike Horton, so my bitterness comes from giving Maggie two long-lost children that added little to the fabric of the show.

[methodwriter85]

I'm still bitter that they decided to character assassinate Chase instead of pairing him with Ciara. They had a whole story set up of them being childhood friends, a cute puppy dog type of guy playing teen Chase, and they decided instead to have him rape Ciara. Ugh. What an absolute waste.  Then they went ahead and just sped through the new teen scene they put up, with them suddenly going from 16 to 18, purely because they were chemtesting Ciara with Chad. Ugh. I still can't believe this show that had a decent teen scene from the late 80's going into the late 2000's just badly britta'd it in two bad back-to-back teen scenes.

Edited January 10, 2021 by methodwriter85

[Rafael]

8 hours ago, 4evaQuez said:

I'm still bitter that the show gave Maggie a long-lost daughter in Summer instead of just using the actress to be a recast Melissa Horton. Right now seems like a great time for Melissa to be on canvas. She's Maggie's daughter, a Horton, Jennifer desperately needs a confidante now that Hope is gone, Sarah desperately needs a confidante that could appeal to her better side, Jack is on the show with his contentious history with Melissa, that also would give a reason for a recast Nathan Horton. Lastly, Melissa could discover Gwen was her long-lost daughter with Jack hell-bent on revenge against the Hortons and the Devereaux's. This would also open up Gwen's storyline possibilities instead of being stuck in the Chabby bubble that usually kills characters (Gabi, Stefan, and Andre being prime examples. I would add Dario but I don't know if he ever took off as a character).

Instead of giving us Maggie's second long-lost child, this actress could have filled a needed void that would have paid off with Days now since this new actress would have been well-established in the role by the time Hope left canvas and Jennifer was recast.

 

Someone else here already perfectly summed up why Daniel should have been Mike Horton, so my bitterness comes from giving Maggie two long-lost children that added little to the fabric of the show.

Speaking of confidantes , i will forever be bitter that Lynsey Godfrey wasnt cast as Stephanie Johnson . Kayla at that point lost Joey to prison and Steve Left Kayla and Salem  because of her deal with Stefan or something like it .

That was the perfect time for Stephanie to actually return and be there for a super lonely Kayla . 

 

And Melissa Archer would have been free to return to the show and play Sarah Horton since Melissa looks like Maggie's daughter plus she was totally age appropriate for the part. Sarah was borm onscreen in 1981 I think. Melissa was born in 1978 . The character and actress age totally tallied up . Yes ,Sarah was 17 in 1991 as a result of SORAS but I think they could have de -SORASed her slightly by making her year of birth to be 1979 . It would have worked. 

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Rafael

[Rafael]

4 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I'm still bitter that they decided to character assassinate Chase instead of pairing him with Ciara. They had a whole story set up of them being childhood friends, a cute puppy dog type of guy playing teen Chase, and they decided instead to have him rape Ciara. Ugh. What an absolute waste.  Then they went ahead and just sped through the new teen scene they put up, with them suddenly going from 16 to 18, purely because they were chemtesting Ciara with Chad. Ugh. I still can't believe this show that had a decent teen scene from the late 80's going into the late 2000's just badly britta'd it in two bad back-to-back teen scenes.

Yep , the JJ teenset and the Ciara teenset were both unmitigated disasters. 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Rafael

[methodwriter85]

2 hours ago, Rafael said:

Yep , the JJ teenset and the Ciara teenset were both unmitigated disasters. 

I honestly think the reason why Ciara and Claire were SORASed was because they knew the JJ teen scene had flopped and didn't want to wait another year or two to get a new one. They thought they could revive the Last Blast Chance scene, and instead managed to be even worse then the JJ scene. ORK was the only good thing to come out of that abbreviated Salem High scene. I did feel bad for both OG Teen Chase and OG Teen Ciara. It's kind of amazing that they didn't learn a damn thing from Ciara and again placed a badly miscast legacy character in an ill-advised rape storyline.

[CanaryFan98]

17 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I'm still bitter that they decided to character assassinate Chase instead of pairing him with Ciara. They had a whole story set up of them being childhood friends, a cute puppy dog type of guy playing teen Chase, and they decided instead to have him rape Ciara. Ugh. What an absolute waste.  Then they went ahead and just sped through the new teen scene they put up, with them suddenly going from 16 to 18, purely because they were chemtesting Ciara with Chad. Ugh. I still can't believe this show that had a decent teen scene from the late 80's going into the late 2000's just badly britta'd it in two bad back-to-back teen scenes.

I liked Chase however I would've paired him with Claire(who liked him) instead of Ciara(who was his step sister at the time). I didn't like that they acted like he always wanted Ciara despite her being his stepsister when he barely liked her to begin with because she bullied him which is how Hope/Aiden were thrown together to begin with.

Instead they retconned the whole thing with Aiden trying to scam Hope the entire time despite the show not playing/writing it that way from day 1.

I would've gone for Chad/Ciara because at least it would've been legit drama pitting Hope vs Jennifer etc  course they wouldn't have gone there and  too bad the actress at the time was awful. I thought her best scenes were with him.

I realize history is kind of repeating itself with Claire she's into a guy who ended up raping a family member of hers...

I think they ruined Chase becuase they wanted Aiden/Chase gone and this would kill a Haiden reunion(which yeah ruined it for me) so Rope could happen. That whole thing ruined Hope/Ciara in the long run neither character recovered.

[Rafael]

We sure could use Eugene Bradford's time machine to erase Carlivati's time jump. 

[4evaQuez]

On 1/9/2021 at 11:44 PM, Rafael said:

Yep , the JJ teenset and the Ciara teenset were both unmitigated disasters. 

 

 

I still think the first SORAS Ciara was set-up to fail. The show gave her too many heavy storylines during her initial introduction. 

1. Hope nearly killed by the Necktie Killer

2. Aidan believed to be the Necktie Killer

3. Bo back from the dead (was Bo dead or just missing. I can't remember)

4. Bo immediately dies 

5. Raped by Chase (I'm actually more upset this happened in the Horton living room. What were they thinking?)

6. Allegedly changing directions of the Ciara character from conception to execution (Allegedly Ciara was supposed to be a young Erica Kane and not the whatever she was we ended up with)

That's a lot for a young actress with little experience. I actually thought the actress had great chemistry with Hope/KA, much better than the recast Ciara honestly. I thought they did a better job exploring Ciara as a character. And I thought she could have grown in the role if given time and not immediately thrust into some really heavy storylines. While I like the recast Ciara well-enough, I think the first SORAS Ciara could have done better if she were supported better by the writing.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, 4evaQuez said:

I still think the first SORAS Ciara was set-up to fail. The show gave her too many heavy storylines during her initial introduction. 

1. Hope nearly killed by the Necktie Killer

2. Aidan believed to be the Necktie Killer

3. Bo back from the dead (was Bo dead or just missing. I can't remember)

4. Bo immediately dies 

5. Raped by Chase (I'm actually more upset this happened in the Horton living room. What were they thinking?)

6. Allegedly changing directions of the Ciara character from conception to execution (Allegedly Ciara was supposed to be a young Erica Kane and not the whatever she was we ended up with)

That's a lot for a young actress with little experience. I actually thought the actress had great chemistry with Hope/KA, much better than the recast Ciara honestly. I thought they did a better job exploring Ciara as a character. And I thought she could have grown in the role if given time and not immediately thrust into some really heavy storylines. While I like the recast Ciara well-enough, I think the first SORAS Ciara could have done better if she were supported better by the writing.

Plus, not only that, but it was just horrific timing.  Did that SORAS mean that Hope and Aiden had been engaged for years and that Bo had been "dead" for years and years?  Did Chase and Ciara grow up together or since they were now teens did that mean they had met as teens and Ciara had bullied him as a teen?

[CanaryFan98]

3 hours ago, Rafael said:

We sure could use Eugene Bradford's time machine to erase Carlivati's time jump. 

1. When did Eugene have a time machine? I must've blocked this out or too young to recall.

2. You brought up another bitterness of mine with this show. The time jump with each passing day has proven to be totally worthless.

- They might as well have killed off Jennifer if MR isn't going to return then if Jack/Kate moved on together that would've been a lot easier to take rather than slap on an affair while she was in a coma which goes against the Jack character entirely and was the total opposite of what we saw on screen but I digress... Then have Kate act as if Jennifer is wrong for being bothered by the whole thing and told to "Get over it". CM isn't Jennifer to me especially if her Jennifer has to gas up Kate in regards to Jake and is cool with Ben at the Horton family Christmas after he tried to kill her daughter and grandson.

- While I wasn't that big on Haley killing her off was rather pointless as Kristen was never held accountable and Melinda barely got to grieve. They ended up writing out JJ shortly after might as well have written them off together at that point given them a HEA and both would be less likely to return because its obvious the show doesn't care about JJ at all. 

- I don't get why they killed off Adrienne so we could be stuck with Bonnie who adds nothing to the show. At least Adrienne would be around for Steve/Jack and Justin. They could've actually brought back another one of Justin/Adrienne's kids to the show in Sonny's place. However she's too normal for this show to write for.

- The baby switch that had no consequences whatsoever. Sarah forgave Xander in like a couple of weeks and acts like it was nothing at this point when it should always be a sticking point between them nobody got arrested or went to jail. There were total lack of consequences. Eric who I admit I don't care for was treated as an afterthought. Rachel didn't add anything to Brady/Kristen together or individually. While I didn't want Eric/Sarah having a kid together at least there was some dramatic impact. Nicole having to deal with Eric being connected to another woman through a child(because unlike Daniel she's not dead). Xander/Eric butting heads over Mackenzie who they both love etc. This could've spurred more storylines. 

The TJ didn't add anything or change much for this show.... 

Edited January 17, 2021 by CanaryFan98

[4evaQuez]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

Plus, not only that, but it was just horrific timing.  Did that SORAS mean that Hope and Aiden had been engaged for years and that Bo had been "dead" for years and years?  Did Chase and Ciara grow up together or since they were now teens did that mean they had met as teens and Ciara had bullied him as a teen?

I agree. In general I am okay with SORAS as just a tool for the genre, but I was confused with the Ciara/Chase SORAS. As you said, I was confused with how long we were supposed to think Hope/Aidan were together, how long Bo was "dead," if Ciara/Chase should have seen each other as siblings, and if the other Hortons should have seen Chase as family. In this case, it just seemed too soon for the SORAS.

Also, at least the little Ciara had an actual onscreen relationship with Bo that SORAS Ciara never had. It was hard to be impacted by her loss of Bo when her Ciara never knew Bo. Not to mention they brought back Jason Cook's Shawn even though he hadn't been in the role since Shawn's early 20s, and he had no intention in staying in the role. But that will get me on my bitterness of how the show completely failed both the Shawn D and Belle characters, and the only reason they're seen as important is because of their parents, so I'll just stop here.

[Rafael]

18 hours ago, 4evaQuez said:

I agree. In general I am okay with SORAS as just a tool for the genre, but I was confused with the Ciara/Chase SORAS. As you said, I was confused with how long we were supposed to think Hope/Aidan were together, how long Bo was "dead," if Ciara/Chase should have seen each other as siblings, and if the other Hortons should have seen Chase as family. In this case, it just seemed too soon for the SORAS.

Also, at least the little Ciara had an actual onscreen relationship with Bo that SORAS Ciara never had. It was hard to be impacted by her loss of Bo when her Ciara never knew Bo. Not to mention they brought back Jason Cook's Shawn even though he hadn't been in the role since Shawn's early 20s, and he had no intention in staying in the role. But that will get me on my bitterness of how the show completely failed both the Shawn D and Belle characters, and the only reason they're seen as important is because of their parents, so I'll just stop here.

Exactly. If they were that desperate to SORAS Ciara and Chase , it should have happened after Bo and Aiden's respective deaths. 

[CanaryFan98]

Aiden is still alive though.

[tribeca]

After Gwen was boosting about how great Chad was in bed I so wanted Abigail to say now I know you are lying.  I am bitter that did not happen.  
 Reading this thread it’s kind of interesting that if Sierra Chad happened he would have slept His kids nanny twice.  
 

time for Abby to hire a manny.   

[CanaryFan98]

6 hours ago, tribeca said:

After Gwen was boosting about how great Chad was in bed I so wanted Abigail to say now I know you are lying.  I am bitter that did not happen.  
 Reading this thread it’s kind of interesting that if Sierra Chad happened he would have slept His kids nanny twice.  
 

time for Abby to hire a manny.   

Yeah and both may end up being related to her too.. Hmm. if soaps were still character driven this could've been a decent story for Chad/Abby why he gravitates towards her relatives who take care of his kids.

[4evaQuez]

"Will was not just nasty to his mother. He was also nasty to Sonny calling him a barrister once in a fight.  I was appalled, Sonny took care of him when he had no job, gave him a roof over his head, paid all of the bills, took care of Arianna and his baby mama Gabi... Show your husband some respect! Ironically this is why Adrienne was against his romance with Will.  Sonny was taking on too much responsibility at a young age and Will was being an asshole.  Will was written out of character.."

I got this from another thread. I'm not sure how to quote from a different post. However, the comments were about Will's portrayal during the Abby/Sami/EJ triangle, and Will writing an article trashing his mother in The Invader.

Personally, my bitterness comes from the fact that the show didn't do more with Will's bitterness toward Sami. I know they had moments like the one being discussed and the time he called Sami a bitch - I think this is when she had the affair with EJ behind Rafe's back. I actually think Will's bitterness toward his mom and the above quote should have been the "in-character" writing for Will.

Let me be honest, I've always hated Will; however, looking at his history of being used as a pawn by Sami and Kate in their war against each other and the many, many failed relationships, weddings, and marriages of both his parents, Will shouldn't know how to be a good husband to anyone. I also loved that Adrienne saw Will for the smirking bastard that he was. Will being an indecisive, petulant, egomaniac who is constantly searching for any excuse to lash out against Sami, Sonny, and anyone else he loves while expecting those same people to fight his battles would be the characterization I would go for with Will.

As of now, I'm not certain who Will is as a character. Granted, I could say that for several characters on the show, but considering he's been on the show for more than a decade and should be one of the lead male romantic protagonists of the show, he's just another failed legacy character for me.

[CanaryFan98]

Will was truly wasted potential but he's a Horton male so I knew he was doomed. Plus they turned him into a token gay character which didn't help as they wanted to make sure he was as bland as possible. I do wonder if the writing/investment in Will would've been different if he was straight though I mean he's still a Horton but he's related to Sami/Kate who the show loves.

[4evaQuez]

9 minutes ago, CanaryFan98 said:

Will was truly wasted potential but he's a Horton male so I knew he was doomed. Plus they turned him into a token gay character which didn't help as they wanted to make sure he was as bland as possible. I do wonder if the writing/investment in Will would've been different if he was straight though I mean he's still a Horton but he's related to Sami/Kate who the show loves.

We'd obviously never know the definitive answer to that question, but I kind of think while Will may have more romantic interests as a straight character that he'd still ultimately fail as a solo character. I think being in Sami's shadow would always be a detriment for Will unless they had an actor who could truly step outside the Sami Brady shadow. I think Chandler is an okay actor, but his acting ticks - especially the smirking - prevents him from being truly great. I also think he lacks energy in his scenes and this happened even before the show as a whole seemed to lack energy. With the exception of Marlena, EJ and Ben, I also don't think he connects to people particularly well. While Ali Sweeney wasn't a great actress when she was first introduced, she connected to everyone beautifully and she could definitely sell the building rage in Sami with just a prolonged stare. Sami wasn't defined by Roman, Marlena, John or Carrie that way I find Will to be defined by Sami - even when she's absent from the show.

For example, look at the Gabi/Will/Nick/Arianna storyline. A story where Will should have been one of the lead drivers of the story became about Sami vs Nick and later Sami/EJ vs Nick. This is after the Will coming out storyline but it still seemed like standard Soap setup regardless of the character's sexual orientation. 

I also always hated the Will walks in on Sami/EJ as a poor retread of the Sami/Marlena/John situation. I won't get into why, but that is another situation where Will's orientation isn't important to the narrative, and again, he plays a secondary role in something that in theory could have been a defining character moment like it was for Sami. I personally disagree that this should be a defining moment for Will and it obviously wasn't, but I believe the writers at the time thought it should be.

Will/Sami/Marlena also had a lot interesting dynamics that wasn't entirely because of Will's orientation even thought his coming out story built the foundation. I remember Sami's jealously over Will choosing to turn to Marlena for comfort over her. Marlena would sometimes throw in subtle digs at Sami in Will's presence that he never objected to. Again, nothing truly came from this.

I also question when was the last time the show had a successful male character regardless of orientation. I actually would say Ben is a rare exception and that seems more a happy accident. Have any other male characters taken off?

I do think the show would have "invested" more into Will if he were straight regarding relationships, but I don't know if that would necessarily save the character. It doesn't seem to be doing much for Brady.

[CanaryFan98]

16 minutes ago, 4evaQuez said:

We'd obviously never know the definitive answer to that question, but I kind of think while Will may have more romantic interests as a straight character that he'd still ultimately fail as a solo character. I think being in Sami's shadow would always be a detriment for Will unless they had an actor who could truly step outside the Sami Brady shadow. I think Chandler is an okay actor, but his acting ticks - especially the smirking - prevents him from being truly great. I also think he lacks energy in his scenes and this happened even before the show as a whole seemed to lack energy. With the exception of Marlena, EJ and Ben, I also don't think he connects to people particularly well. While Ali Sweeney wasn't a great actress when she was first introduced, she connected to everyone beautifully and she could definitely sell the building rage in Sami with just a prolonged stare. Sami wasn't defined by Roman, Marlena, John or Carrie that way I find Will to be defined by Sami - even when she's absent from the show.

For example, look at the Gabi/Will/Nick/Arianna storyline. A story where Will should have been one of the lead drivers of the story became about Sami vs Nick and later Sami/EJ vs Nick. This is after the Will coming out storyline but it still seemed like standard Soap setup regardless of the character's sexual orientation. 

I also always hated the Will walks in on Sami/EJ as a poor retread of the Sami/Marlena/John situation. I won't get into why, but that is another situation where Will's orientation isn't important to the narrative, and again, he plays a secondary role in something that in theory could have been a defining character moment like it was for Sami. I personally disagree that this should be a defining moment for Will and it obviously wasn't, but I believe the writers at the time thought it should be.

Will/Sami/Marlena also had a lot interesting dynamics that wasn't entirely because of Will's orientation even thought his coming out story built the foundation. I remember Sami's jealously over Will choosing to turn to Marlena for comfort over her. Marlena would sometimes throw in subtle digs at Sami in Will's presence that he never objected to. Again, nothing truly came from this.

I also question when was the last time the show had a successful male character regardless of orientation. I actually would say Ben is a rare exception and that seems more a happy accident. Have any other male characters taken off?

I do think the show would have "invested" more into Will if he were straight regarding relationships, but I don't know if that would necessarily save the character. It doesn't seem to be doing much for Brady.

I think JJ started off well until they neutered him... he was a drug dealer who tried to break up Daniel/Jennifer. Then hooked up with Eve. However I think BB's version of Stefan became popular as they ended up bringing back the actor in a different role.

[Pearson80]

4 hours ago, 4evaQuez said:

We'd obviously never know the definitive answer to that question, but I kind of think while Will may have more romantic interests as a straight character that he'd still ultimately fail as a solo character. I think being in Sami's shadow would always be a detriment for Will unless they had an actor who could truly step outside the Sami Brady shadow. I think Chandler is an okay actor, but his acting ticks - especially the smirking - prevents him from being truly great. I also think he lacks energy in his scenes and this happened even before the show as a whole seemed to lack energy. With the exception of Marlena, EJ and Ben, I also don't think he connects to people particularly well. While Ali Sweeney wasn't a great actress when she was first introduced, she connected to everyone beautifully and she could definitely sell the building rage in Sami with just a prolonged stare. Sami wasn't defined by Roman, Marlena, John or Carrie that way I find Will to be defined by Sami - even when she's absent from the show.

For example, look at the Gabi/Will/Nick/Arianna storyline. A story where Will should have been one of the lead drivers of the story became about Sami vs Nick and later Sami/EJ vs Nick. This is after the Will coming out storyline but it still seemed like standard Soap setup regardless of the character's sexual orientation. 

I also always hated the Will walks in on Sami/EJ as a poor retread of the Sami/Marlena/John situation. I won't get into why, but that is another situation where Will's orientation isn't important to the narrative, and again, he plays a secondary role in something that in theory could have been a defining character moment like it was for Sami. I personally disagree that this should be a defining moment for Will and it obviously wasn't, but I believe the writers at the time thought it should be.

Will/Sami/Marlena also had a lot interesting dynamics that wasn't entirely because of Will's orientation even thought his coming out story built the foundation. I remember Sami's jealously over Will choosing to turn to Marlena for comfort over her. Marlena would sometimes throw in subtle digs at Sami in Will's presence that he never objected to. Again, nothing truly came from this.

I also question when was the last time the show had a successful male character regardless of orientation. I actually would say Ben is a rare exception and that seems more a happy accident. Have any other male characters taken off?

I do think the show would have "invested" more into Will if he were straight regarding relationships, but I don't know if that would necessarily save the character. It doesn't seem to be doing much for Brady.

I love what you said about Will and I agree wholeheartedly.  I also think it is the show's obsession with Sami  has contributed to Will's inability to be a lead character.  I thought Will before Chandler and the actor before him were cast in the role had all of the qualities to be character in his own right.  My favorite Will was Mophead Will..  

The Will/Sami/Marlena dynamic should have been explored to the fullest but the show is not interested in character analysis and character-driven stories.  They prefer cheap retreads like Will seeing Sami with EJ.   Allison Sweeney hated that story she said that it was out of character for Sami to cheat and I agree with her. 

[CanaryFan98]

Didn't Sami cheat on Lucas with EJ though? or was she not married to Lucas at the time

[nilyank]

21 minutes ago, Pearson80 said:

They prefer cheap retreads like Will seeing Sami with EJ.   Allison Sweeney hated that story she said that it was out of character for Sami to cheat and I agree with her. 

It also was a cheap retread that did not have the same emotional stakes as when Sami found Marlena with John. Marlena cheated on Sami's father with the man that raised Sami for the first years of her life because her parents were taken away by Stefano. She believed that John was actually her father Roman. When the affair blew up, there was much so hurt and betrayal and Sami lost the family  that she desperately would try to recreate for herself and Will for the next decade or so. 

When Will found Sami with EJ, Sami had only been involved with Rafe on and off for three years. When Sami wasn't involved  with Rafe,, she was living with EJ and almost married him. Will's relationship with Rafe superficial especially in comparison to what Sami had with John. He blamed Sami's cheating to breaking up a family with Rafe with Sami's children from Lucas and EJ. By this point, Will had been through several rounds of Sami trying with Austin, Brandon and Lucas where she promised him the home that he always wanted and he blamed Sami when her relationships blew up in her face (even when it was not her fault). By the time Rafe came around, Will initially did not like him and only got over his misgivings because he was preferable to that of EJ. Sami's cheating just became something for Will to blame her for everything while he ended working and bonding with EJ. 

God I hated the story because Rafe should never have been that important in Sami's life after they broke up four or five times.

[nilyank]

13 minutes ago, CanaryFan98 said:

Didn't Sami cheat on Lucas with EJ though? or was she not married to Lucas at the time

She never cheated on Lucas with EJ. She just couldn't stay away from him. After Rafe found out the truth about her and EJ, Sami ended up with Lucas when he returned back to town. He had a fiancee but Lucas ended up breaking that off and getting involved with Sami. They even moved in together for about a month or two. However, Sami kept meeting with EJ who was accused of killing Stefano and she wanted to help prove that he was not guilty. Lucas kept telling her to stay away from EJ, but she couldn't. EJ and Sami ending going on the run for a little bit and then the show once again removed Lucas from the triangle with EJ and Sam and inserted stupid Rafe again.

[CanaryFan98]

18 minutes ago, nilyank said:

She never cheated on Lucas with EJ. She just couldn't stay away from him. After Rafe found out the truth about her and EJ, Sami ended up with Lucas when he returned back to town. He had a fiancee but Lucas ended up breaking that off and getting involved with Sami. They even moved in together for about a month or two. However, Sami kept meeting with EJ who was accused of killing Stefano and she wanted to help prove that he was not guilty. Lucas kept telling her to stay away from EJ, but she couldn't. EJ and Sami ending going on the run for a little bit and then the show once again removed Lucas from the triangle with EJ and Sam and inserted stupid Rafe again.

I should've clarified I was referring to the time when Lucas took the fall for Will shooting EJ. Wasn't she married to Lucas at the time? Around 2008 maybe?

Edited February 15, 2021 by CanaryFan98

[nilyank]

8 minutes ago, CanaryFan98 said:

I should've clarified I was referring to the time when Lucas took the fall for Will shooting EJ. Wasn't she married to Lucas at the time? Around 2008 maybe?

By that time, to end the vendetta between the Bradys and the Dimeras, Sami had divorced Lucas and was marrying EJ when Will shot him. Of course, Sami was planning to have a marriage of convenience with EJ but continue her relatiionship with Lucas. Technically, Sami cheated on EJ with Lucas, but as I said, Sami really didn't consider her marriage to EJ to be real.

[Pearson80]

4 hours ago, CanaryFan98 said:

Didn't Sami cheat on Lucas with EJ though? or was she not married to Lucas at the time

No she did not. Lucas was in prison after covering up Will's attempted murder of EJ at the time and was telling Sami to get on with her life.  Unfortunately for him, he had no idea that he was pushing her into EJ's waiting arms.  When she did sleep with EJ she was single and they conceived Sydney giving her another child with him. I think Lucas walked in on them after they had done the deed. Poor Lucas always getting screwed over..

Edited February 15, 2021 by Pearson80

[Pearson80]

4 hours ago, nilyank said:

It also was a cheap retread that did not have the same emotional stakes as when Sami found Marlena with John. Marlena cheated on Sami's father with the man that raised Sami for the first years of her life because her parents were taken away by Stefano. She believed that John was actually her father Roman. When the affair blew up, there was much so hurt and betrayal and Sami lost the family  that she desperately would try to recreate for herself and Will for the next decade or so. 

 

I always loved how the affair drove so much stories for Sami, Marlena, John Roman and to a certain extent even Carrie in the peripheral and Eric who was absent.  The seeds of the affair between John and Marlena  was planted during the pit storyline. It was an awesome story from start to finish written by the amazing Sherrie Anderson.  That is how you write a soap opera.. It was what made Sami so sympathetic even when she was heinous at that time.  Stefano's machinations just upended so many lives and it was crazy to me when he became an ordinary citizen of Salem waltzing in and out town as he damn please.  

Edited February 15, 2021 by Pearson80

[4evaQuez]

25 minutes ago, Pearson80 said:

I always loved how the affair drove so much stories for Sami, Marlena, John Roman and to a certain extent even Carrie in the peripheral and Eric who was absent.  The seeds of the affair between John and Marlena  was planted during the pit storyline. It was an awesome story from start to finish written by the amazing Sherrie Anderson.  That is how you write a soap opera.. It was what made Sami so sympathetic even when she was heinous at that time.  Stefano's machinations just upended so many lives and it was crazy to me when he became an ordinary citizen of Salem waltzing in and out town as he damn please.  

Every time I saw Stephano having coffee at the Brady Pub; I was flabbergasted. One - because Stephano made these people's lives miserable for laughs and giggles for literal decades. Two - Stephano in no way would ever purchase the Folgers Coffee I'm sure they sold at the Brady Pub.

[Rafael]

Absolutely disgusted that Carlivati has killed off Laura to push this cheap retread of Abby vs Gabi feud he got going on with Gwen -the latest long lost kid and Abby.

This  is a slap in the face to long-time fans.

This awful  headwriter needs to be fired as in yesterday !!!

 

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Rafael

[Sidney]

48 minutes ago, Rafael said:

Absolutely disgusted that Carlivati has killed off Laura to push this cheap retread of Abby vs Gabi feud he got going on with Gwen -the latest long lost kid and Abby.

This  is a slap in the face to long-time fans.

This awful  headwriter needs to be fired as in yesterday !!!

 

 

Yeah, killing Laura off was so dumb. I could care less about Jack's psycho  daughter. Too bad they couldn't find something  more compelling for Matt.

[DisneyBoy]

Coming back from the dead isn't compelling?

 

Ron has big exciting ideas....he just mangles the execution. And then it's on to the next thing.

[CanaryFan98]

2 hours ago, Sidney said:

Yeah, killing Laura off was so dumb. I could care less about Jack's psycho  daughter. Too bad they couldn't find something  more compelling for Matt.

Which is really baffling considering that they could've delved into Jack's missing years(even though they said he was in a coma all this time that could've been a lie)... or brought JJ back and give Jack/JJ some angst (real angst not what happened with Haley).  I mean this isn't hard to write. However they don't care so.. There are a lot of things they could've done with Jack's backstory he was a shady person once upon a time.

[peachmangosteen]

There's a lot of things they could've done with a lot of characters but they'd rather show Ben and Ciara doing high school play level Romeo & Juliet instead lol.

[Silver Raven]

6 hours ago, Sidney said:

Jack's psycho  daughter.

Which one?

[Rafael]

19 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

Coming back from the dead isn't compelling?

 

Ron has big exciting ideas....he just mangles the execution. And then it's on to the next thing.

Ron has exciting ideas ? Yeah right. You mean exciting ideas like Gwen being the latest long lost child ? Or how about the fact that he created Stefan - the biggest flop character in the show's history ? 

His tenure has truly been a disaster. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Rafael

[DaphneCat]

44 minutes ago, Rafael said:

Ron has exciting ideas ? Yeah right. You mean exciting ideas like Gwen being the latest long lost child ? Or how about the fact that he created Stefan - the biggest flop character in the show's history ? 

His tenure has truly been a disaster. 

 

 

20 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

Coming back from the dead isn't compelling?

 

Ron has big exciting ideas....he just mangles the execution. And then it's on to the next thing.

Coming back from the dead is only compelling if it happens once or twice a decade (and we were never really sure the character was dead in the first place.)  It's really boring when it happens every other month.  Especially when they don't actually do anything with the characters.

[Pearson80]

50 minutes ago, DaphneCat said:

Coming back from the dead is only compelling if it happens once or twice a decade (and we were never really sure the character was dead in the first place.)  It's really boring when it happens every other month.  Especially when they don't actually do anything with the characters.

It is why Marlena coming back from the dead was such a ratings success, the doubt  about her death was always there when she died in 1986.

The recent back from the dead were lame because both Will and Jack should never have died.. We all know at some point Bo Adrienne, Laura will come back from the dead.  I even think that Anjelica will come back as well.  

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Pearson80

[Katy M]

41 minutes ago, DaphneCat said:

 

 

Coming back from the dead is only compelling if it happens once or twice a decade (and we were never really sure the character was dead in the first place.)  It's really boring when it happens every other month.  Especially when they don't actually do anything with the characters.

The last 10-15 years (I lose track of time), death has been a huge joke on soaps.  Even if there's a body, the police have checked it, funeral, organs donated.  Doesn't matter.  There is a 90% chance that character will come back soon.  Now, yes, soaps have always used the bodies lost at sea, burned beyond recognition, etc. But, now they don't even bother.

[DaphneCat]

28 minutes ago, Pearson80 said:

It is why Marlena coming back from the dead was such a ratings success, the doubt  about her death was always there when she died in 1986.

The recent back from the dead were lame because both Will and Jack should never have died.. We all know at some point Bo Adrienne, Laura will come back from the dead.  I even think that Anjelica will come back as well.  

 

I still remember my aunt (a devoted DOOL watcher) saying that she didn't think Marlena was really dead, even before she came back.

[Peanut6711]

As I was watching today's episode I was trying to tally the percentage of Salem's population who were "dead" at one time.  I had a decent size list that included Hope, Marlena, Steve, Roman, Orpheus, EJ, Stefano, Tony, Andre, Jack, Will, and then I remembered the whole Melaswen thing and gave up.  Rough guestimate somewhere between 50-71% of the town.

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

The last 10-15 years (I lose track of time), death has been a huge joke on soaps.  Even if there's a body, the police have checked it, funeral, organs donated.  Doesn't matter.  There is a 90% chance that character will come back soon.  Now, yes, soaps have always used the bodies lost at sea, burned beyond recognition, etc. But, now they don't even bother.

They don't even have to bothering making it vague anymore; they have Rolf! 😁

1 hour ago, DaphneCat said:

I still remember my aunt (a devoted DOOL watcher) saying that she didn't think Marlena was really dead, even before she came back.

A viewer back then, I figured they left a small door open for her return with the plane going down on or around Orpheus's island and I don't think they recovered a body either, all presumably in case DH's Our House show got cancelled and she came back sooner rather than later. 

[nilyank]

1 hour ago, Peanut6711 said:

As I was watching today's episode I was trying to tally the percentage of Salem's population who were "dead" at one time.  I had a decent size list that included Hope, Marlena, Steve, Roman, Orpheus, EJ, Stefano, Tony, Andre, Jack, Will, and then I remembered the whole Melaswen thing and gave up.  Rough guestimate somewhere between 50-71% of the town.

 

Technically Sami when she was on death row and injected with the lethal injection. She just happened to be revived minutes later.

[Pearson80]

4 hours ago, Peanut6711 said:

A viewer back then, I figured they left a small door open for her return with the plane going down on or around Orpheus's island and I don't think they recovered a body either, all presumably in case DH's Our House show got cancelled and she came back sooner rather than later. 

The show rushed Marlena's death.  It was very last minute because they were hoping that Deidre would sign a new contract with them, she held firm and said no.  Deidre wanted to have children and doing two shows at the same time while trying to get pregnant was going to be too much for her.    For a period of time when Marlena was being held captive by Orpheus on his island, she did agree to work for them without a contract.  Deidre said that during that time she did not know what sleep was because she was always in a studio  working long hours and the show did try to accommodate her but she had had enough.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Pearson80

[Rafael]

On 2/15/2021 at 5:56 AM, Pearson80 said:

No she did not. Lucas was in prison after covering up Will's attempted murder of EJ at the time and was telling Sami to get on with her life.  Unfortunately for him, he had no idea that he was pushing her into EJ's waiting arms.  When she did sleep with EJ she was single and they conceived Sydney giving her another child with him. I think Lucas walked in on them after they had done the deed. Poor Lucas always getting screwed over..

 

On 2/15/2021 at 5:56 AM, Pearson80 said:

No she did not. Lucas was in prison after covering up Will's attempted murder of EJ at the time and was telling Sami to get on with her life.  Unfortunately for him, he had no idea that he was pushing her into EJ's waiting arms.  When she did sleep with EJ she was single and they conceived Sydney giving her another child with him. I think Lucas walked in on them after they had done the deed. Poor Lucas always getting screwed over..

They should have used that as a catalyst for a Lucas /Nicole Hookup . Remember when Nicole vs Sami vs Chloe catfight took place at the pub . And Nicole seemed to recall her brief marriege to Lucas with much fondness and even revealing  the frequency in which  he always wanted to get it on . Obviously she was taunting them   . 

But I think that hook up would have been better than the disastrous Chloe /Lucas pairing they ended up going with.

[Rafael]

13 hours ago, Katy M said:

The last 10-15 years (I lose track of time), death has been a huge joke on soaps.  Even if there's a body, the police have checked it, funeral, organs donated.  Doesn't matter.  There is a 90% chance that character will come back soon.  Now, yes, soaps have always used the bodies lost at sea, burned beyond recognition, etc. But, now they don't even bother.

But that is super stupid because it pretty much knocks the wind out of any  storylines that involve death. Such storylines should be tragic and the viewers should feel devastated or sad over the death of the character. Look at John Black's fantastic 2007 death /funeral. All the right beats were played  from Aunt Vivian covering all the expenses and Roman thanking John for raising Sami and Eric and Stefano kinda  saluting his favourite enemy etc . 

That was Hogan Sheffer's high point during his tenure . And then John came back from the dead with his memories saved on a freaking Casette Disk thus rendering the death storyline to being meaningless. 

[Katy M]

 

3 hours ago, Rafael said:

But that is super stupid because it pretty much knocks the wind out of any  storylines that involve death. Such storylines should be tragic and the viewers should feel devastated or sad over the death of the character. Look at John Black's fantastic 2007 death /funeral. All the right beats were played  from Aunt Vivian covering all the expenses and Roman thanking John for raising Sami and Eric and Stefano kinda  saluting his favourite enemy etc . 

That was Hogan Sheffer's high point during his tenure . And then John came back from the dead with his memories saved on a freaking Casette Disk thus rendering the death storyline to being meaningless. 

that and after a while you wonder how soap citizens can even work up a tear at a funeral when they should know there's a better than even chance that theri loved one is not dead (only exception is for the elderly).  

I would love some conversation to start "when you were dead..."

[WendyCR72]

Besides the obvious deaths like Tom and Alice Horton, etc. [basically any such real death of the actor(s) involved], the last time I felt anything of sorrow about a character death was almost TWENTY NINE freaking years ago in 1992 when Isabella died of pancreatic cancer in John's arms, just months after marrying John and having Brady.

The show played every beat of that death, with family and friends, and it was beautifully done. I still remember being grateful that my roommate was in class and I was alone watching that in my dorm room, because I sobbed like a little baby.

I'm rather shocked - pleasantly so - that the show never tried to resurrect Isabella [outside of angelic visits and such]. Her death was sad and tragic as she had a lot to live for and was so young and beloved.

Now, if a character dies, it is just "meh!" because 99.9999999% of the time, there is stupid anti-death "serums" and stupid "discs" and such other crap involved, and you know whomever died will pop up very much alive the next week/month/year, so who the hell cares?!

And soaps are all the worst now because of that lack of emotional resonance.

[Pearson80]

10 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Besides the obvious deaths like Tom and Alice Horton, etc. [basically any such real death of the actor(s) involved], the last time I felt anything of sorrow about a character death was almost TWENTY NINE freaking years ago in 1992 when Isabella died of pancreatic cancer in John's arms, just months after marrying John and having Brady.

The show played every beat of that death, with family and friends, and it was beautifully done. I still remember being grateful that my roommate was in class and I was alone watching that in my dorm room, because I sobbed like a little baby.

I'm rather shocked - pleasantly so - that the show never tried to resurrect Isabella [outside of angelic visits and such]. Her death was sad and tragic as she had a lot to live for and was so young and beloved.

Now, if a character dies, it is just "meh!" because 99.9999999% of the time, there is stupid anti-death "serums" and stupid "discs" and such other crap involved, and you know whomever died will pop up very much alive the next week/month/year, so who the hell cares?!

And soaps are all the worst now because of that lack of emotional resonance.

Isabella was the most beautiful death that I have ever seen on a soap.. Sherry Anderson wrote her death and it was just amazing to see..

[CanaryFan98]

11 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Besides the obvious deaths like Tom and Alice Horton, etc. [basically any such real death of the actor(s) involved], the last time I felt anything of sorrow about a character death was almost TWENTY NINE freaking years ago in 1992 when Isabella died of pancreatic cancer in John's arms, just months after marrying John and having Brady.

The show played every beat of that death, with family and friends, and it was beautifully done. I still remember being grateful that my roommate was in class and I was alone watching that in my dorm room, because I sobbed like a little baby.

I'm rather shocked - pleasantly so - that the show never tried to resurrect Isabella [outside of angelic visits and such]. Her death was sad and tragic as she had a lot to live for and was so young and beloved.

Now, if a character dies, it is just "meh!" because 99.9999999% of the time, there is stupid anti-death "serums" and stupid "discs" and such other crap involved, and you know whomever died will pop up very much alive the next week/month/year, so who the hell cares?!

And soaps are all the worst now because of that lack of emotional resonance.

The show never cared about Isabella enough to go through all that trouble however I'm glad she wasn't resurrected I shudder to see her ruined by the writers. However I agree that was the last death on this show that was well done which didn't involve the actor dying in RL.

I guess there was Lexie which was one of the more decent ones in recent years.

[Pearson80]

On 2/27/2021 at 12:49 PM, CanaryFan98 said:

The show never cared about Isabella enough to go through all that trouble however I'm glad she wasn't resurrected I shudder to see her ruined by the writers. However I agree that was the last death on this show that was well done which didn't involve the actor dying in RL.

I guess there was Lexie which was one of the more decent ones in recent years.

I have never understood why soaps trash beloved characters, look at how they have trashed Hope over the years.  My love for Hope is more nostalgic to how awesome she was before she died.. To be fair, Hope was written by writers who knew how to write for heroines..

Edited February 28, 2021 by Pearson80

[CanaryFan98]

I think if you stick around long enough you do become the villain. However the soap genre changed from when Hope arrived to today. If the writers back then were still around(or ones who were developed to write the same way) the show and these characters would be in a much better place. However the networks let the soap genre die willingly.