Velma - General Discussion

[BetterButter]

[AnimeMania]

Mindy Kaling as “Velma”
Glenn Howerton as “Fred”
Sam Richardson as Norville (“Shaggy”)
Constance Wu as “Daphne.” 
Cast includes: Jane Lynch; Wanda Sykes; Russell Peters; Melissa Fumero; Stephen Root; Gary Cole; Ken Leung; Cherry Jones; Frank Welker; “Weird Al” Yankovic; Fortune Feimster; Yvonne Orji; Sarayu Blue; Nicole Byer; Ming-Na Wen; Shay Mitchell; Debby Ryan; Kulap Vilaysak; and Karl-Anthony Towns; and Karl-Anthony Towns.
The first season is 10 episodes.

‘Velma’ Showrunner Explains Scooby-Doo’s Absence on New HBO Max Series: ‘That’s What Made it a Kid Show’

Scooby-Doo won't be showing his face in the new "Velma" animated series. Scooby-Doo was the thing that made the original show feel like a kids show, which is what the new TV Series is trying to avoid.

Edited October 9, 2022 by AnimeMania

[Cranberry]

We have a release date now: January 12.

[AnimeMania]

[Cranberry]

 

[aghst]

I don't get not having Scooby.

They could make Shaggy a stoner and Scooby a horn dog.  Get it?

 

 

[AnimeMania]

Velma     January 12, 2023     HBO Max    

Episodes 1-2    Titles and Descriptions

Spoiler

S01.E01: Velma

After teenage outcast Velma Dinkley is accused of killing a popular classmate, she has just 24 hours to find the real murderer. There’s only one problem: Velma has sworn off solving mysteries – forever.

S01.E02: The Candy Man

While Velma goes to new lengths to solve the mystery of her mother’s disappearance – including teaming up with her former BFF turned nemesis, Daphne – Norville faces an enemy of his own… stoners.

[AnimeMania]

I liked it. I thought it was funny and I liked how they were analyzing the tropes and stereotypes used in various situations to drive the storyline.

I was hoping when Velma mentioned that her dad was wearing a beanie (I always called it a skull cap) when it was 90 degrees outside, that Daphne would have mentioned that Velma is always wearing a turtleneck sweater (and at that particular moment has a hoodie on over it).

They never explained why Velma's father is so poor, since he is a lawyer. He should at least be able to afford food. Why are they eating stuff out of trash cans? Invite yourself over to a friend's house around dinner time or trade homework answers for snacks. Your father's girlfriend owns a diner, food should be the least of your worries.

Velma should analyze her mother's writing style and see it she has continued writing under a different name.

[Chicago Redshirt]

6 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I liked it. I thought it was funny and I liked how they were analyzing the tropes and stereotypes used in various situations to drive the storyline.

I was hoping when Velma mentioned that her dad was wearing a beanie (I always called it a skull cap) when it was 90 degrees outside, that Daphne would have mentioned that Velma is always wearing a turtleneck sweater (and at that particular moment has a hoodie on over it).

They never explained why Velma's father is so poor, since he is a lawyer. He should at least be able to afford food. Why are they eating stuff out of trash cans? Invite yourself over to a friend's house around dinner time or trade homework answers for snacks. Your father's girlfriend owns a diner, food should be the least of your worries.

Velma should analyze her mother's writing style and see it she has continued writing under a different name.

Sadly, being a lawyer is no guarantee of wealth. But I don't know if Papa Velma is actually poor, or if that poorness is what led Velma to eat trash fries as a function of poverty. Rather, I think it was just trying to characterize her as someone who loves fries enough that she would eat trash fries.

[aghst]

Poor reviews so far.

 

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/velma/s01/reviews?type=top_critics

 

[SlovakPrincess]

I always thought Scooby Doo was dumb, but then my nephew got into it and I developed an appreciation for the goofy fun of the original series and the later Mystery Incorporated series.

"Velma" is not for kids, but really what is the point?  Adult Scooby fans usually acknowledge the franchise is comfort food, and the audience (but not the characters) are in on the joke that Shaggy's hungry all the time ... for, uh, some reason, wink, wink ... and the mysteries are goofy.   Making the mysteries darker is fine, but the constant self-referential / meta snark and the characters being unpleasant is a terrible choice.  I assume anti-drug Norville will discover pot and become Shaggy, and offensive brat Fred will grow as a person ...  but the show is just screaming at the audience "Look How We Made Everyone's Personalities Opposite!"     

And why can't we have a modernized and more diverse version of the Scooby gang where the characters keep their lovable quirks and their sense of fun?  Why must every modern portrayal of a teenager involve the same miserable, sarcastic affect and unrealistic dialogue?  

I realize I'm overthinking a cartoon, but it's exactly the kind of thing that drives me nuts: cynicism and gratingly unpleasant "funny" characters and redoing something badly.

[aghst]

I haven't watched and don't know if I will.

But how can you have a modernized and more diverse Scooby gang without Scooby Doo?

 

[SlovakPrincess]

33 minutes ago, aghst said:

I haven't watched and don't know if I will.

But how can you have a modernized and more diverse Scooby gang without Scooby Doo?

 

Well, yes, fair enough.   The absence of the titular dog is glaring.
 

 But since it’s supposed to be an “origin story” for the humans in the gang, the more pressing issue is that the human characters are so grating.  

[CletusMusashi]

I think there have been some great modernizations that maintained the charm of the original characters. Sccob, Trick or Treat, the Mystery Incorporated series... this is just one alternative that goes a different direction. I thought it was fun. Daphne, Velma, Fred, and their families were enough to keep me entertained. Norville isn't too interesting yet. I get it, he doesn't do drugs. Move on to next joke, please. The wanted posters of clowns and pirates all over the police station were a nice touch, and so was the meta way the show keeps tapping the fourth wall. It's more of a comedy about dark loony reboots wearing a paper-thin veneer of their original source material (such as Riverdale) than it is a comedy about the origial Scooby Doo show itself.

[callie lee 29]

Jeez, Velma is unpleasant. I really hope they find a way to tone the snark/sarcasm down because she's just plain mean. 

[CletusMusashi]

I think they're going for something similar to the "Wednesday" show on Netflix. Unfortunately, since that show aired first and was pretty well received, "Velma" may suffer when the inevitable comparisons are made.

[WritinMan]

Oh my god, this is terrible. Absolute shite.

[Keywestclubkid]

Was it AMAZING? No did it have some jokes that didn’t work? Absolutely 

 

I didn’t hate it …. I’ll see how the rest of the episodes play out 

[Tachi Rocinante]

I was on the fence and now I won't bother with it.  Mindy Kaling has never been funny anyway.

[Ariah]

I have an issue with Velma as a show: I don’t understand the severity of reception.

Having watched 2 episodes, I don’t understand why is it supposed to be much worse than any other adult oriented cartoon. 
I usually ignore the „oh no, woke-lgbtq-people of color broke my franchise” crowd, but this time it’s not only these channels, it’s almost everyone. And I don’t see why.

Velma is not an amazing series. It’s average. But I don’t really see how its treatment of legacy characters is different from Comissioner Gordon’s reimagining in Harley Quinn (which is considered funny). Why is Velma less funny than some jokes in Rick and Morty? 
 

I don’t see a stark difference, why one is much worse or better than the other.

[AnimeMania]

Velma      January 19, 2023        HBO Max

Episodes 3-4    Titles and Descriptions

Spoiler

S01.E03: Velma Kai

When Principal Rogers enrolls all the female students in a self-defense class, Velma and Daphne must work out their complicated relationship on the mat. Meanwhile, Norville vows to get answers from Fred… by any means necessary.

S01.E04: Velma Makes a List

With Crystal Cove High’s hottest girls under attack, Velma questions her feminist values, while Fred analyzes his own views on women. After seeking Daphne’s help, Norville finds himself embroiled in a new mystery.

[AnimeMania]

I thought it was very funny, I am really enjoying this series.

[Captain Carrot]

Count me as one of the people that don't like this show. I stopped watching The Office about half way through when I realized that the people behind the scenes thought that making everyone a jerk was 'more realistic', and I'm seeing the same thing here.

So far Velma is an all around horrible person, Daphne is a mean girl drug dealer, and Fred is a psychopath. The only likable person so far is Norville/Shaggy and his story line so far reminds me of the one armed man from Hot Tub Time Machine. I might give it another chance, but I think I'm out.

[Chaos Theory]

I have a high tolerance for most things aka cussing, nasty people , violence. What I don’t have a tolerance for is talking animals or animals that think they are people which is why i never really got the appeal of Scooby Doo.   It kinda freaked me out really.  A talking dog that was part of a gang of teens that solved mysteriously.  It freaked me out.      A cartoon based off the universe without the talking dog sounded interesting enough except that it kinda wasn’t.   Now I only watched the pilot so maybe it gets better but Velma herself doesn’t even come off interesting.   Honestly the only interesting scene was the first two minutes when a bunch of half naked girls were debating pilot episodes of shows and how meta it got.  After that the episode went downhill fast.

[magicdog]

On 1/14/2023 at 10:05 AM, aghst said:

I haven't watched and don't know if I will.

But how can you have a modernized and more diverse Scooby gang without Scooby Doo?

IMO, I don't recommend this series.  The first episode told me all I needed to know it's not my cup of tea and quite frankly, I think it's an insult to viewers regardless if they are SD fans or not.  I get a hell of a lot more entertainment from YT reviewers on this show than the 22 minutes I saw.

As for your question, IMO, this was not a SD show so much as a show with the SD characters label slapped on it.   I have read elsewhere (too lazy to link) that WB forbade the use of SD himself (which reminds me of those Bat embargoes with various Bat Family characters in Batman related cartoons).  It's just as well because I think this show is a travesty.  If anything, this is a Mindy Kaling  self insert project and little more.  This could easily be the same show just with different names/character designs.  They wanted name recognition.  Reminds me of that Jem film abomination a few years back - a film that had character names we knew but nothing otherwise related to the show or its premise.

Scooby Doo, Mystery Incorporated did a much better job at re-examining the gang and taking things in a more mature direction.  I'm not saying that can't be done again but not this show.

[Cranberry]

It's interesting that everyone is going after Mindy for this show considering that, while she is one of six executive producers and voices Velma, she is not the showrunner (that's Charlie Grandy) and has not written any of the episodes. I've got my issues with her, but I generally enjoy her writing (on The Office and The Sex Lives of College Girls especially). Velma's overly mean characters and bad jokes are coming from the show's writing team, which doesn't include her.

[magicdog]

4 hours ago, Cranberry said:

It's interesting that everyone is going after Mindy for this show considering that, while she is one of six executive producers and voices Velma, she is not the showrunner (that's Charlie Grandy) and has not written any of the episodes. I've got my issues with her, but I generally enjoy her writing (on The Office and The Sex Lives of College Girls especially). Velma's overly mean characters and bad jokes are coming from the show's writing team, which doesn't include her.

She may not be writing the scripts per se, but she is certainly influencing them.  As a producer, she has that ability and her writers are likely on the same train she is.  

[AnimeMania]

Jinkies! ‘Velma’ Demand Surges 127% – a Critic-Defying Win for HBO Max | Chart

Despite the hate for both the show and Mindy Kaling, HBO Max’s “Velma” saw a whopping 127% increase in demand.

[AnimeMania]

Velma      January 26, 2023        HBO Max

Episodes 5-6    Titles and Descriptions

Spoiler

S01.E05: Marching Band Sleepover

After Crystal Cove instates a city-wide curfew, Velma has no choice but to spend the night with band geeks… and Fred. Later, Daphne makes a discovery of her own.   

S01.E06: The Sins of the Fathers and Some of the Mothers                  

Velma vows to resolve her daddy issues. Norville rebels against his father’s beta lifestyle. Fred fights against his family’s anti-feminist ways. Daphne learns a series of shocking truths about her parents – and her past.   

[magicdog]

On 1/25/2023 at 9:29 PM, AnimeMania said:

Despite the hate for both the show and Mindy Kaling, HBO Max’s “Velma” saw a whopping 127% increase in demand.

Considering the low scores from viewers, I don't know if this is because of morbid curiosity or the YT reviewers who are more entertaining in trashing it than the show itself.  

[bybrandy]

I just hinged the available episodes. I went into it knowing in general the show wasn’t well received but not the specifics. And I like it. It makes me laugh.  Velma is a total bitch and not worthy of Daphne. I hope she grows but I legit like everybody else.  

[AnimeMania]

Velma      February 2, 2023     HBO Max

Episodes 7-8    Titles and Descriptions

Spoiler

S01.E07: Fog Fest
As the Crystal Cove Fog Festival nears, Velma struggles to find answers to the town’s serial killer problem – and a date. Then, as Daphne explores feelings for a mysterious stranger, Fred and Norville face off for the Fog King crown.

S01.E08: A Velma In The Woods
After finding themselves trapped in a cave, Velma and Daphne are forced to confront their complicated relationship. While Fred proves he really does love women for their brains, Gigi vies for Norville’s attention.

They said Scooby-Doo wasn't in the series, but eagle-eyes might spot him in Episode 8.

[magicdog]

One of my favorite Youtubers finally did this!!  Usually he does films, but this show's recent notoriety really must have tested his resistance.

[Pallida]

I’m holding out hope that Velma’s mom is the killer. 

[Perfect Xero]

This show is a brilliant satire of the modern gritty reboots and re-imaginings that have swept the entertainment landscape.

[magicdog]

On 2/4/2023 at 10:38 PM, Pallida said:

I’m holding out hope that Velma’s mom is the killer. 

Considering how this show has been treating men (white men in particular) I'm going with it being a white male.  I wouldn't put it past them to make the killer Fred's dad or perhaps Norville's dad.

On 2/4/2023 at 11:20 PM, Perfect Xero said:

This show is a brilliant satire of the modern gritty reboots and re-imaginings that have swept the entertainment landscape.

Not even close.

[AnimeMania]

Velma      February 9, 2023     HBO Max

Episodes 9-10    Titles and Descriptions

Spoiler

S01.E09: Family (Wo)man
Given 72 hours to uncover the identity of the serial killer, Velma is forced to live a lie with Norville, while Daphne and Fred concoct a story of their own to get back in with the Brains.

Premiere Date: February 9, 2023       HBO Max    

S01.E10: The Brains of the Operation
(Season Finale)
While Velma races against the clock to find the true serial killer, Daphne pursues a new career path, Fred finds a way to channel his rage, and Norville attempts to get as far away from his former best friend as possible.

Premiere Date: February 9, 2023       HBO Max    

[SlovakPrincess]

This show has a fairly disturbing obsession with "hot" girls in high school (commenting on the hotness, resenting the hotness, making fun of the hotness).   Part of this is the already-extremely-tired commentary on dumb pretty girls getting killed in slasher flicks, but this show takes it so far, I can only assume the writers felt dissed by the popular girls in high school and still, in middle-age, have a weird hang up about it.  

[AnimeMania]

3 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

This show has a fairly disturbing obsession with "hot" girls in high school (commenting on the hotness, resenting the hotness, making fun of the hotness).   Part of this is the already-extremely-tired commentary on dumb pretty girls getting killed in slasher flicks, but this show takes it so far, I can only assume the writers felt dissed by the popular girls in high school and still, in middle-age, have a weird hang up about it.  

I think animation is one of those areas were it is hard to draw girls that are not hot. Most of the girls tend to be hot in their own way, animators try hard to make the girls look different from each each, hence the crazy hair colors and the one signature outfit.

Edited February 9, 2023 by AnimeMania

[magicdog]

6 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

I can only assume the writers felt dissed by the popular girls in high school and still, in middle-age, have a weird hang up about it.  

Pretty pathetic to be obsessed with HS after all those years!!  These fools needs to grow up - Mindy first!!

Just found out who the murderer is - and I was half right.  I was correct in the reason for the murders involving Fred in some way.  Let's hope Season 2 gets dumped before it goes into production.  Even the reviewers can't take much more of this garbage!

[callie lee 29]

Wow. That was really, really awful. At the end I don't care who the serial killer is as long as they killed Velma at the end. I was here for Glenn Howerton, but even Dennis can't get me to another season of this. 

[AnimeMania]

“Hard Funny”: Channing Dungey Breaks Down Warner Bros TV’s Comedy Business As Studio Sets Up Amazon Projects From Mindy Kaling & ‘Hacks’ Duo

Channing Dungey (Chairman and CEO of Warner Bros. Television Group) saysa team is working on a second season of Scooby-Doo spinoff Velma, an adult animated comedy that comes from Mindy Kaling and Charlie Grandy that was the streamer’s most-watched animated series debut ever.

[magicdog]

On 2/13/2023 at 9:27 AM, AnimeMania said:

the streamer’s most-watched animated series debut ever.

Not quite. In fact, the numbers are being manipulated a bit.  A few YT reviewers have brought it up that Velma was NOT being hate watched as much as its backers claim it is.  IMO, hate watching is a waste of time.  Reviewers might because that's what they're paid to do, watch something and despite how much they may despise what they're watching, they're informing and entertaining their audience.  Although there were a couple of reviewers who refused to watch after episode 2 because it was considered unwatchable! 

It's also rather telling that Mindy Kaling deleted a lot of tweets from her account over this and is currently in India for some reason (some have joked she was in self exile over Velma).  The real mystery is when people like her and others keep falling upwards when they should be run out of the business.  

[Cranberry]

5 hours ago, magicdog said:

The real mystery is when people like her and others keep falling upwards when they should be run out of the business.  

Mindy Kaling's other shows (which she created and/or exec produced and/or wrote and/or directed for) have done well (I'll use Rotten Tomatoes scores because it's easiest):

The Office US (nine seasons): 81% critic score and 89% audience score

The Mindy Project (six seasons): 86% and 83%

Never Have I Ever (four seasons): 93% and 85%

The Sex Lives of College Girls (third season upcoming): 95% and 86%

(Her short-lived show Champions has lower scores, but is still "fresh" at 63% and 66%. Her 10-episode Four Weddings and a Funeral is her only "rotten" critics' score besides Velma, at 43%, but the audience score is 81%.) 

I'm not defending Velma, and I'm not even defending Mindy as a person, but one crappy flop of a show (that Mindy did not create, which she does not write for, and of which she is not the showrunner) does not seem like a good enough reason to run someone out of the business.

[magicdog]

Never seen any of those projects (and Rotten Tomatoes isn't the most reliable when it comes to scores), but there was a time when you screwed up a project and cost a studio tons of money and angered your potential customers, you didn't get promoted.

[Cranberry]

Mindy Kaling didn't create Velma, she doesn't write for Velma, she is not the showrunner on Velma, and she is one of six executive producers on Velma. I'm not sure why she's receiving all of the blame for this show sucking, or why anyone would think her (so-far successful) career should end over it. I never see anyone insulting the man (Charlie Grandy) who is actually in charge of this crappy show.

[KaveDweller]

6 hours ago, magicdog said:

Never seen any of those projects (and Rotten Tomatoes isn't the most reliable when it comes to scores), but there was a time when you screwed up a project and cost a studio tons of money and angered your potential customers, you didn't get promoted.

Wouldn't the showrunner/creator be the one who screwed up the project and potentially cost money? 

Plus as has been said, most of Mindy's other projects have been very successful and well liked, and most established people are allowed one less successful project. If your first show is a disaster you won't get a second chance, but that is different.

I don't think it would have been renewed if it cost the studio a ton of money. HBO likely doesn't care about angering customers as long as they make some money.

[magicdog]

19 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

I don't think it would have been renewed if it cost the studio a ton of money.

The show wasn't so much renewed as already ordered in advance.  Typically, most modern animated shows are given so many episodes to produce off the bat - say 20 episodes.  Then the show can be split up into two "seasons" of 10 episodes each.  While I don't doubt everyone involved in this show's development are going by the axiom of "there's no so thing as bad publicity", I am certain this show will be used in classrooms as how NOT to write a series (animated or otherwise) or how NOT to use a beloved and established IP. 

Edited February 18, 2023 by magicdog

[KaveDweller]

1 hour ago, magicdog said:

The show wasn't so much renewed as already ordered in advance.  Typically, most modern animated shows are given so many episodes to produce off the bat - say 20 episodes.  Then the show can be split up into two "seasons" of 10 episodes each.  While I don't doubt everyone involved in this show's development are going by the axiom of "there's no so thing as bad publicity", I am certain this show will be used in classrooms as how NOT to write a series (animated or otherwise) or how NOT to use a beloved and established IP. 

 

Everything I read says that season 2 is in development, which means it is being worked on. So if the show was losing money they could stop work on it.

They don't care about bad publicity if they are making money and they don't care about good publicity if they are losing money. It is business.

 

[SlovakPrincess]

I suspect the show is relatively inexpensive to make, so it's unlikely to cost HBO a ton of money or get Hollywood to turn on Kaling or anyone else associated with it.  It's all about the $$$!  

With streaming, there's less risk in a movie or show that gets bad reviews or low "ratings", anyway.   However, the show is pretty obnoxious, and it doesn't help that it got renewed at a time when people are pissed HBO, Netflix, etc. are canceling and removing from their libraries series that are actually good.