S03.E05: Frenemies - Chapter Five: The Thief

[Trini]

As Courtney continues to secretly help Cameron, the team notices she's pulling away from her role as the JSA leader. Mike and Jakeem approach Cindy with a proposition. Finally, Yolanda's decision to follow her intuition leads her to make a shocking discovery.

Lea Thompson directed the episode written by Steve Harper.

Airdate: 10/5/22

[cambridgeguy]

I get Beth wanting to protect her parents, but you can't acknowledge how dangerous your job is and see nothing wrong when you constantly go into the field with zero combat skills and a costume that provides no protection beyond what a regular jacket would.

I don't think it was necessary to give Cameron a stint in a psychiatric hospital back when he was a little kid.  He's already got the whole brooding thing and evil parents/grandparents, so there's enough reason for people to doubt the guy.   Rick in particular seems to really hate him, so it seems likely a powered up Hourman will be tangling with him soon enough.

[Frozendiva]

Buddy! Long time no see.

Yeah, Pat. Court, a 16 year old teen, has a crush. Her mom knows the look.

I get Beth’s parents wanting to be part of her journey, but they do need to be careful, and let her do her thing. Stand back, be there when she needs help. It is not a Dr. Midnight and Friends group. Beth needs to spread her wings a bit.

Cindy, you try to be good and aren’t so good at it.

The Crocks continue to be good foils for Pat and Barb.

The creepy grandparents hopefully know about the hourglass and wonder if they will do something to drive a wedge between Cameron and  Court.

Sylvester was giving good advice to Yolanda.

[opus]

So Pat and Barbara sit on the same side of a booth? ( ‘cuz it didn’t look like they were expecting the Crocks)

[Diapason Untuned]

This Cameron thing is seriously going to end badly for Courtney. I mean, Cindy even warned her that his grandma was probably like Icicle, meaning that there's a good chance she was involved, even peripherally in ISA stuff and she still went to his house? She needs to do better.

Rick also needs to do better too, I mean he was told not to mess with the limiter and he went and messed with the limiter, geez. 

That whole time Beth was having that tough but necessary convo with her parents, I was like "Shouldn't this be the other way around normally?"

34 minutes ago, opus said:

So Pat and Barbara sit on the same side of a booth? ( ‘cuz it didn’t look like they were expecting the Crocks)

 My guy can't enjoy his junk food in peace anywhere.

[AAEBoiler]

8 hours ago, Diapason Untuned said:

Rick also needs to do better too, I mean he was told not to mess with the limiter and he went and messed with the limiter, geez

I was getting creepy vibes about Sylvester in that scene ... like he was leading Rick to do that. If it wasn't for the staff accepting Sylvester, I would think that he was being impersonated.

[rmontro]

8 hours ago, AAEBoiler said:

I was getting creepy vibes about Sylvester in that scene ... like he was leading Rick to do that. If it wasn't for the staff accepting Sylvester, I would think that he was being impersonated.

Interesting theory.  I keep wondering, the way Sylvester has been acting, has he always been like this or is it a new development?  Did Pat just never notice it back when he was Stripesy because they were less mature and experienced?

Thought it was kind of funny watching Cindy beat up those bullies.  Poor Cindy seems destined to be a villain.  I'm looking forward to a good fight between her and Wildcat.  Usually Cindy gets matched up against Courtney.

[Trini]

Aw, Court 'n' Cam are cute! I'm rooting for them. I want to enjoy what little romance they have on this show.

So they revealed how/why/when Cindy stole Gambler's laptop, but we still don't really know why she was at the crime scene in the first place.

I hope all this Starman stuff is leading up to something, because I did not expect Joel McHale to be so much a part of the season. Anyway, he's kind of a terrible mentor/role model for JSA 2.0.  Sylvester to a teenager: "Hey Rick, fun fact: you could probably have super-strength all the time! Don't do that though. K bye!"

Really hope they let Mike and Jakeem do more than just be comic relief soon.

I get why Beth would want her parents distanced from the JSA, but I still think it'd be cool if they were involved a little bit. There are only so many parents in the superhero world that are actually enthusiastic about their superhero kids. At least let them re-design the Dr. Mid-nite costume!

Again I'm missing Artemis. I want to see her try and integrate into the JSA; but it's like they only use her for action scenes.  :(

Edited October 7, 2022 by Trini
oops grammar

[MissLucas]

Damnit Beth, let your parents design that kickass outfit they talked about in the seasoner opener!!! That will not endanger them and will stop me from hurting myself from excessive eye-rolling whenever I see you in that ridiculous get-up that provides no protection! Arrgh!

ahem...

I was kinda excited for Cindy joining team Mike and Jakeem (they talked about their cool team name - but did we hear it?) - alas it was not to be.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

Sylvester's reaction to the painting erases any doubts that he has PTSD.

[Cthulhudrew]

4 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I was kinda excited for Cindy joining team Mike and Jakeem (they talked about their cool team name - but did we hear it?) - alas it was not to be.

I thought I heard Mike call them "the Young All-Stars."

I'm really getting tired of all the Starman stuff this season. They're spending entirely too much time on an unlikeable character and ignoring the storylines of some of their mains (notably Wildcat and Hourman). Yolanda, in particular to me, has been somewhat unlikeable since season 1. It's understandable given what she went through, but I'd like to see them really have her character work through her issues of killing Brainwave and especially see her and Courtney's friendship come back. That was a highlight of season 1 and she's constantly broody and standoffish with Courtney ever since. The new JSA already has one incessantly broody member (Rick's seemingly only character trait); they don't need two.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Cthulhudrew

[thuganomics85]

Beth's conversation with her parents was kind of funny in that usually it really is the other way around.  Just amusing that it's a teenager; someone who barely has any fighting experience; being the one to tell her parents to back off because it could be dangerous.  Which, I do get, but I also feel like there should be some kind of compromise: like finding them tasks or ways to help that wouldn't put them on the frontline.  Because, honestly?  Just being her parents alone will always come with the possibility of danger when it comes to being a superhero.

It's equally kind of funny that Courtney's crush on Cameron is causing everyone to kind of freak out because it's making her slack on her JSA duties.  Normally, it would be a good thing for Courtney to have some semblance of normalcy in her life.  But it does seem like the JSA kind of feels directionless whenever she's not on point as their leader.  Especially since Sylvester still has a lot of issues.  I don't think he's going to end up bad or a fake of any kind, but something has clearly changed with him due to whatever resurrection he went through and has made him ill-tempered and unpredictable.

Poor Mike and Jakeem really face-planted with trying to recruit Cindy to the "Young All-Stars."  To be fair, while I do think they wanted her for her skills, they definitely were kind of crushing on her after she kicked their bullies asses, and it showed with all of their nervousness and bumbling around.

Rick possibly having unlimited super strength is so going to backfire.

Pat and Barbara will no doubt disagree with me, but the Crocks continue to be the best!  Look at them getting their superheroing on!  Sure, they might dangle someone from a balcony or two, but it works for Batman!  Plus, it's even helped with their love life!  Every relationship should aspire to be like Crusher and Paula!

[Bill1978]

13 hours ago, Trini said:

I hope all this Starman stuff is leading up to something, because I did not expect Joel McHale to be so much a part of the season. Anyway, he's kind of a terrible mentor/role model for JSA 2.0.  Sylvester to a teenager: "Hey Rick, fun fact: you could probably have super-strength all the time! Don't do that though. K bye!"

I definitely get the vibe that Starman isn't the good Starman we know - of course I could be projecting cause I want the character gone as he is distracting from the teen drama show I tune it for. It just seems a bit odd that Pat (or was it Barbara) gave the talk about being a 'dad', that he dishes out advice that each kid then blindly follows that could end up not being for the best. The advice he gave:

Mike - you don't need the JSA, do your thing 

Yolanda - go fight Cindy

Beth - push your parents away

Rick - give yourself unlimited power

True, he didn't say those exact things but framed them in a way that he does seem to have manipulated the teenagers to go down the path that;s going to cause them some issues in their life.

I am still holding out hope that Cameron will just have a Dark Willow moment but in the end realises he is  a good guy.

[Trini]

18 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Sylvester's reaction to the painting erases any doubts that he has PTSD.

That's probably true; but I also think that's way too simple an explanation for a comic book show. I'm very suspicious about what's going on with him.

[tennisgurl]

Paula: *big smile as she and Crusher describe how they interrogated several people by threatening to throw them off a building*

Barbara: *looks upset*

Paula: "...so that's bad?" 

I continue to love the Crocks as Barbara and Pat's bizarre couple friends. 

Courtney and Cameron really are so cute, it sucks that it will inevitably end up going badly, especially now that his creepy ice grandparents know about them. I really hope that he stays a good guy, Cameron certainly has his issues but he mostly seems like a nice kid, its not his fault that he comes from a line of supervillains and its not fair of the JSA to hold that against him. 

I honestly wish that Cindy had joined Mike and Jakeem, the Young All-Stars. They seem to have a little bit of a crush on her, that would be hilarious, plus they seem to be more willing to give her a chance. 

I like a lot of the stuff with Sylvester, he's clearly dealing with a massive amount of trauma and his scene with Barbara about suddenly finding yourself in a parental sort of role was really good, but he is getting so much screen time, I feel like some of the other characters are getting left behind. Yolanda hasn't had much to do besides be pissed at Cindy, and it took ages to check in on Cameron, despite everything that's happened with him. 

I don't blame Maria at all for her taste in men, Zeke is awesome. 

I get why Beth wants to keep her parents away from her superhero life, but at least let them help make a new outfit! Beth really needs to do something about that costume, no way can that protect her from harm.  

Edited October 7, 2022 by tennisgurl

[Bill1978]

18 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Sylvester's reaction to the painting erases any doubts that he has PTSD

Is it bad that my first response was annoyance that he ruined that painting? I always enjoy looking at the characters and recalling who is who whenever it appears on screen, and now he has ruined that.

38 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I don't blame Maria at all for her taste in men, Zeke is awesome.

I just had to google who he was, cause you reminded me that when his name was mentioned in this episode, I had no idea who he was. Why don't the characters talk about other characters using my code word for them (like Junkyard Guy) to make it easier for me to follow. 

[Lambsilencer]

Hello Folks

Well, to be blatantly honest, the show continues to amaze me in how they are seemingly go out of their ways to not have Courtney actually be Stargirl. Here, we now have more action with Starman than with Courtney. For a show called "Stargirl", it clearly has very, very little of it.
Back in season two, it was stated that they had to reduce the amount that Stargirl was featured because with the reduced CW budget, they had to scale back on the visual effects, which effectively made it difficult to have many Stargirl scenes.
But this time around, it seems that most of the money they have is spent on effects not focused on Courtney and her alter ego.
I'm starting to suspect that it might have to do with her outfit and the fact that in this day and age, some feminists might consider it "skimpy". So, maybe that's why it was decided to have as little of her in those tight shorts and belly-free top possible as to not get into "hot water" in that regard.

Other than that, it still is an OK, cute show for me.

Greets
Lambsilencer

Edited October 8, 2022 by Lambsilencer

[readster]

On 10/5/2022 at 6:49 PM, cambridgeguy said:

I get Beth wanting to protect her parents, but you can't acknowledge how dangerous your job is and see nothing wrong when you constantly go into the field with zero combat skills and a costume that provides no protection beyond what a regular jacket would.

I don't think it was necessary to give Cameron a stint in a psychiatric hospital back when he was a little kid.  He's already got the whole brooding thing and evil parents/grandparents, so there's enough reason for people to doubt the guy.   Rick in particular seems to really hate him, so it seems likely a powered up Hourman will be tangling with him soon enough.

Spoiler

In the comics, Camron and Rick have always been rivals. They have had to team up in the past over things, but this really plays the history of the characters perfectly. 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Dustbunny
Spoiler Tag

[cambridgeguy]

7 hours ago, Lambsilencer said:

Back in season two, it was stated that they had to reduce the amount that Stargirl was featured because with the reduced CW budget, they had to scale back on the visual effects, which effectively made it difficult to have many Stargirl scenes.
But this time around, it seems that most of the money they have is spent on effects not focused on Courtney and her alter ego.
I'm starting to suspect that it might have to do with her outfit and the fact that in this day and age, some feminists might consider it "skimpy". So, maybe that's why it was decided to have as little of her in those tight shorts and belly-free top possible as to not get into "hot water" in that regard.

If they consider her outfit too revealing then it's trivial to change it.  Stargirl isn't so iconic that any change to her look would be viewed negatively.  Heck, there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for doing so in universe - if you aren't invulnerable then you shouldn't be walking around with so much exposed skin.  It's not like the rest of the JSA, both past and present, were running around in tank tops and shorts.  Plus various shows have tweaked their hero's outfit - Oliver went through multiple versions, Kara started wearing pants, etc.

[Trini]

Whatever the reason for less Stargirl (in the suit) scenes this season, I truly doubt it's because of the costume when it's been the costume since day one.

I think it's more like there hasn't been a clear villain the JSA has had to (physically) fight yet (so no reason for a Stargirl action scene); but also a lot of the Staff action has been handed over to Sylvester.

[Lambsilencer]

but also a lot of the Staff action has been handed over to Sylvester.

Which is exactly my point. There's so little Stargirl action, and now the Staff action is mostly done by Sylvester. I'd rather have more of Courtney in that regard.

As for the costume: It's a valid point, as Supergirl's costume was also changed (at the request of Melissa Benoist, IIRC), which is perfectly fine by me. But maybe here, the costume has some sort of tie to Geoff Johns' sister, whom Stargirl is loosely based on. Therefore, a change is maybe not going to happen. 

But it's just a speculation on my part, which probably is completely wrong anyway. :)

[Quark]

I like that this season is much more light-hearted than last season, but nothing seems to be happening. This show really needs to pick up the pace.

[Lantern7]

Mike? Jakeem? Head for the sidelines. The main cast will call when they need you. The bit with Cindy was painful. To her credit, her first reaction wasn't to fit both of them into a single locker. Well, there's always Artemis.

Can't wait for the team to find out Courtney and Cameron are getting closer. "You can't trust him!!" "He's not his father, Rick!!!" "He's 27!!!" "So? You're 29!" "I- . . . shit, yeah. I'll back off."

Do the Crocks know about the Evil Norwegian Grandparents? I bet even Crusher and Paula are unnerved by those two.

Shit, why didn't I comment right after I saw the episode? I feel like the plots jogging in place.

On 10/5/2022 at 11:10 PM, Frozendiva said:

Buddy! Long time no see.

Right? Now I want to see him do silly English Bulldog stuff.

[CletusMusashi]

So are the heroes still watching that secret underground lab? Or did they just sort of gawk around, say "oh well, no villains here right now," and leave? After blowing up a wall. 'Cause... there is a live animal in a tank there. Obviously, somebody is going in and out of the place feeding that lizard. Shit, at least plant a few cameras to see who. Or is Starman just gonna start blowing up half the mall whenever he sees anyone coming out of of Petsmart with a bag of crickets?