S05.E03: Border

[Anela]

14 minutes ago, Redrum said:

Like, Fred was a scumbag rapist I agree, but this aspect of Gilead is pretty much exactly what the high council of Gilead thinks is good citizen behavior.

It's the whole "Fred betrayed Gilead and gave secrets to the enemy" that REALLY should have put the kibosh on the massive state funeral. I don't mind hand waving a little bit but the whole 'Serena is a prisoner of the US/Canada and is allowed under the mildest of escorts to prance down to Gilead to demand a state funeral for the guy who openly betrayed Gilead because she tricked him and isn't immediately enslaved as a Handmaid for her insolence" has been a bit much to swallow. 

I was thinking of Serena being complicit, and the funeral being shown on the big screens in Toronto, the equivalent of Times Square, from what it looked like.

[crashdown]

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

The idea that we're expected to believe Gilead believes she's some innocent bystander is sheer nonsense and a lot of hand-waving to keep up the tiresome Serena versus June narrative they've been hitting the reset button on since Season 2.

I find this sort of sentiment so curious. The June-versus-Serena narrative IS the story here. You might not like it, it might not be the story for you, but criticizing the writers for carrying on with what is obviously their primary intention in the first place seems odd. 

[lucindabelle]

10 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

10 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

Sometimes a society can change completely in way less than ten years, like Nazi Germany. Nazis were also big when it came to aesthetics and loved their parades and ceremonies so the fact that Gilead looks older than its age isn't a big deal to me. Having said this , I would LOVE to meet the guy in charge of creating funerals, particicutions etc. Not only has he got a good sense of style, he's fast as fuck!

Nazi Germany was more than 6-7 years old which is ALL that Gilead is. (Wasn’t Hannah 6?)  It’s not that Gilead just looks older th an its age it’s th at every adult female knows how to read but pretends she doesn’t. It’s that there is only just NOW beginning to be girls old enough to have been brought up in Gilead- IF they were already a few years old when Gilead began- but the show pretends otherwise, with girls like Nicks first wife. Literally nobody over the age of 15 was brought up in Gilead.(I can handwave away the first wife as someone who came from a cult like family but you take my point)  and as for Nazi rituals clearly that’s what the show is going for, but the utter scriptlessness of then  is a bit much. It’s one thing to get a crowd to chant in unison and raise their arms, it’s another to magically have mourning uniforms whipped up overnight etc etc. anyone who’s ever tried to organize a st Patrick’s day parade knows that line of March is a huge chore and takes more than a day. 

 
it’s the collective amnesia that irritates me (and the show never acknowledged it). At the height of Nazi Germany you could not have found one adult who pretended that Jews had never lived among them. And yet all the women agree to pretend they can’t read.

and some women like Mrs Putnam are clearly menopausal so REALLY has a good memory of life before Gilead. Because at least 45 years of her life was lived there. Heck she probably went to college. But they never talk about it. The world building doesn’t work for me on this level. It works best when we remember Gilead is young. 

Edited September 26, 2022 by lucindabelle

[Helena Dax]

9 hours ago, circumvent said:

Religious cults are ripe for collective hysteria. There is a documentary about a grifter of a fundamentalist mormon community where the leader is jailed and a prov

The funeral thing was just to justify the title - Ballet - and juxtapose that with the actual Ballet performance June was attending, then go to the closing of the episode on June seeing the funeral on the big screens and seeing Hannah. Basically they decided what they wanted - that ending - and went backwards from there, fuck continuity or context within the story they have been trying to tell (even if nobody can even tell what story that is) 

It was beautiful though, the cinematography and the editing.

Oh, no, I meant the guy in Gilead. Somewhere in Gilead there's a guy who has to come up with these ideas, sometimes in less than 24 hours, and I want to meet him!

Edited September 26, 2022 by Helena Dax

[Baltimore Betty]

7 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

Oh, no, I meant the guy in Gilead. Somewhere in Gilead there's a guy who has to come up with these ideas, sometimes in less than 24 hours, and I want to meet him!

Yeah, don't tell me that there is not some guy in Gilead who is brilliant with color, fabrics and choreography!

[Kel Varnsen]

9 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

Oh, no, I meant the guy in Gilead. Somewhere in Gilead there's a guy who has to come up with these ideas, sometimes in less than 24 hours, and I want to meet him!

I definitely want to see that guy, because you know it's not wanna be tough guy losers like Fred or Putnam making up these sort of things. Just look at their fake ass military uniforms. 

[Shermie]

On 9/23/2022 at 2:59 AM, steph369 said:

“We’d hoped when Ms. Osborn was in Toronto, things would finally settle down.” So did we all, Commander, so did we all. But nope, it’s still all about June.

To be fair, the show is called The Handmaid’s Tale, not the The Handmaids’ Tale. June is the title character and this is her story. Whether someone likes that or not is a different thing, but I suppose there is the option not to watch.

I agree that the timeline doesn’t work. Gilead is too recent to have women not able to read, or are they not allowed to read, hence the pictures on the grocery store products? Maybe the theory is that the stupid men in charge thought women would forget how to read if they never got to do it? It would be like women in some countries who have to cover themselves head to toe and aren’t allowed to go out in public alone or get an education. The men there probably think that after enough time the women will just bend and submit, and a few probably do have their spirits broken, but many many do not. 

I don’t think Serena is becoming an actual ambassador with an embassy and diplomatic status. It’s a title, “You can be the ambassador of your beliefs”, like Jen Anniston is an “ambassador” for Aveeno.

I do think the show is running out of steam and needs to wrap up the story. This is what happens when shows don’t have a set running time; they just flounder around trying to find a new plot line for each season.

[crashdown]

8 minutes ago, Shermie said:

Gilead is too recent to have women not able to read, or are they not allowed to read, hence the pictures on the grocery store products?

They're not allowed to read--nobody has claimed that they can't read. If they're caught reading, they lose a finger. Pretty powerful incentive to avoid doing it!

[steph369]

You can only tell the same story for so long. If they’re going to go past the original material, they have to develop more interesting storylines. I agree with iMonrey, they keep rehashing the same thing, over and over. 

Edited September 27, 2022 by steph369

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, Shermie said:

don’t think Serena is becoming an actual ambassador with an embassy and diplomatic status. It’s a title, “You can be the ambassador of your beliefs”, like Jen Anniston is an “ambassador” for Aveeno.

Yeah she isn't going to be meeting with politicians and doing negotiating. She is going to be doing meet and greet sessions with those candle people, and maybe things like morning news shows and AM radio talk shows where she will get super softball questions. Although I am not sure what happens when Canada just decides not to let her staff into the country.

[steph369]

On 9/23/2022 at 2:24 PM, crashdown said:

I think we're going to see that there's also a Mayday underground of Wives and Aunts, and that's going to be extremely interesting.

On 9/23/2022 at 2:58 PM, chaifan said:

And I've also been wanting a plot line around wives who are part of the resistance.

On 9/24/2022 at 2:58 AM, kitkat343 said:

We know Commander Lawrence's wife strongly opposed how women were treated in Gilead, and we also saw Emily in a posting with a genuinely kind Wife, who fell conveniently ill each month at the time of the Ceremony.  It would be quite interesting to explore the experiences of women like these more, and the show can certainly cut down air time of June staring at the camera in order to introduce their experiences. 

Ooh, yes! This is why I stick around, hoping for something like this. The show really needs it to retain its viewers. 

[Redrum]

17 minutes ago, steph369 said:

By the way “all about June” is an expression that means she only thinks about herself, not that the show is about her. 

Right but the show is about her, June Osborne and her travails against Gilead. Do I think there's some interesting stories about the rise of Gilead and the stories of other people in Gilead? Absolutely - and frankly that might be the better show to do as a sequel as opposed to the Testaments, which has some flaws despite being a fun tale. 

The problem is that the whole June VS Serena thing is a bit played and doesn't work in the setting without a huge amount of handwaving. Serena has no power in Gilead and there's no reason and no one attached to her that would ever give her special treatment in Gilead. In Canada, she is at best a refugee and at worst a war criminal and there's no reason for ANY plot line revolving around her. She is powerless and Gilead should have no interest in her. 

June could still have a story in getting Hannah out but the whole Serena still has the power to somehow yank chains in Gilead and cause Hannah to be tortured etc in order to punish June? Yeah can't buy it. Worse, the whole Serena hates June, June hates Serena stuff kind of buys into some of the worst stereotypes about women - they're over emotional and focus on petty bitchery when they should be looking at the big picture. I hope this goes beyond Serena and June literally and figuratively pulling each other's hair.  

[steph369]

6 minutes ago, Redrum said:

Right but the show is about her,

My point was that when I said “it’s all about June” in my post, I was referring to her being selfish again.  My post had nothing to do with whether the show was about her.  I was just clarifying that. And doing so again. 😄 

[crashdown]

14 minutes ago, Redrum said:

Worse, the whole Serena hates June, June hates Serena stuff kind of buys into some of the worst stereotypes about women - they're over emotional and focus on petty bitchery when they should be looking at the big picture. I hope this goes beyond Serena and June literally and figuratively pulling each other's hair. 

I have confidence that it will. I agree with you that superhero-versus-supervillain is not particularly compelling or helpful.  But it won't remain there; it can't. It's obvious to me that this current bitter enemies phase is just a resting point before the Serena-and-June relationship twists off into something new and unexpected. I'm very interested to see what that "something" is going to be.

38 minutes ago, steph369 said:

But you can only tell the same story for so long. If they’re going to go past the original material, they have to develop more interesting storylines. I agree with iMonrey, they keep rehashing the same thing, over and over. 

That's just your opinion, and I don't share it. To me, they've gone beyond the original storyline by centering everything around June and Serena's relationship. Here are two women who are really so fundamentally alike in so many ways, who have very different circumstances in and opinions about a totalitarian government. Complicating all that is the fact that they have a peculiar sort of bond that makes them want to protect each other despite the fact that they also want to attack each other. I don't see it as the same thing over and over, I see it as something constantly shifting and changing as the power dynamics shift and change. It's an unusual story, and I'm really into it. You disagree, and that's fine--you'd rather see more of an ensemble, more complex, realistic world-building, or whatever it might be. That's your right, but it seems odd to assume that the creators are obligated to tell the story that you personally would like to be receiving, or that your view is universal.

[Helena Dax]

I'm not sure I understand the point about reading. Of course Gilead is full of women who can read - meaning they have the knowledge. That's why Gilead uses pictures. Since reading is forbidden, using pictures means the women don't have the opportunity to read and break the law, either willingly or unwillingly.

[Anela]

I still haven't watched it, because I don't like Serena, and I don't need to see Lydia slapping the shit out of anyone. They went through June escaping, hiding, and being caught, and it turns out they could have just dropped her in no man's land, and given her a map. A few seasons of torture porn, and they're still using her daughter against her - her eldest daughter. Who wouldn't still feel rage at not only being raped repeatedly, but knowing this person still has access to Hannah? 

That's rhetorical. I'm not going to go back and forth. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

don’t think Serena is becoming an actual ambassador with an embassy and diplomatic status. It’s a title, “You can be the ambassador of your beliefs”, like Jen Anniston is an “ambassador” for Aveeno.

But how can the Commanders promise her a staff, a budget and a security detail if she's in custody up in Canada? WTF. Let's say they even let her out of custody and she's free to establish some sort of base in Toronto. How is Gilead going to supply her with those things? Would Canada allow it?

[crashdown]

6 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Let's say they even let her out of custody and she's free to establish some sort of base in Toronto. How is Gilead going to supply her with those things? Would Canada allow it?

Well, sure--it's a free country, after all. Citizens are free to set up whatever bat shit information centers they want to set up. Individuals are free to give money to those bat shit information centers if they want to. That's the flip side of democracy: crazies can have their part of the town square. Why wouldn't Serena be able to set up her organization?

[circumvent]

2 hours ago, Shermie said:

To be fair, the show is called The Handmaid’s Tale, not the The Handmaids’ Tale. June is the title character and this is her story.

And this is the problem with the show. They want to eat the cake and have it too. They want to tell the story of the book AND they want to tell their own stories but they are not capable of creating a coherent narrative and want us to just sit in awe of whatever they do, even tough they don't even know what they write from one season to another

Which brings me to a question I wrote back in the thread: why did June say that she believed Mayday was just a made up story? Mayday took Nichole from Gilead to Canada, why she is pretending it was all a dream, a legend?

2 hours ago, Shermie said:

I suppose there is the option not to watch.

Oh, no! Hate watch is the best watch. 

[Kel Varnsen]

37 minutes ago, crashdown said:

Well, sure--it's a free country, after all. Citizens are free to set up whatever bat shit information centers they want to set up. Individuals are free to give money to those bat shit information centers if they want to. That's the flip side of democracy: crazies can have their part of the town square. Why wouldn't Serena be able to set up her organization?

Because she isn't a legal resident of Canada? The same with any staff Gilead tries to send up to work with her. Just because Canada is a free country doesn't mean people from other countries can show up and say they are going to start working.

[Redrum]

7 minutes ago, circumvent said:

why did June say that she believed Mayday was just a made up story? Mayday took Nichole from Gilead to Canada, why she is pretending it was all a dream, a legend?

Because technically I don't think Mayday rescued Nicole, I think that was arranged by Lawrence.

Don't get me wrong - I think Mayday exists in some sense but from June's perspective, most of her activity has been helped along by sympathetic commanders and the Martha resistance - which is or is not associated with Mayday.

Its possible that Mayday as it currently exists is a shoot off of June's activities and not something that organically existed beyond talk before June's activities. Similar to the Postman, where the Restored United States was something the protagonist made up to get himself some help and sympathy but people wanted to believe it was real and so it became.

54 minutes ago, Helena Dax said:

'm not sure I understand the point about reading. Of course Gilead is full of women who can read - meaning they have the knowledge. That's why Gilead uses pictures. Since reading is forbidden, using pictures means the women don't have the opportunity to read and break the law, either willingly or unwillingly.

Its a world building choice that is cool and scary in the initial setting but the more you think about it, the more it doesn't work. For example, in early flashbacks we see signs etc being removed because women aren't allowed to read. But... men ARE allowed to read so why do ALL signs have to be pictures?

If Hannah was five when Gilead went up - just in kindergarten, then its seven years later if she is supposed to be 12 and she probably doesn't know how to read. Esther, who was15? When we first met her last season? Would be 16 now and was 9 when Gilead started so she probably knows how to read but may not read well. As the younger generation ages, literacy among women will certainly drop but anyone Esther's age or higher should have some ability to read. Certainly Serena, a published author, could read, and thats why her being handed a picto-agenda by the Canadian government was so hilarious. 

2 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Because she isn't a legal resident of Canada? The same with any staff Gilead tries to send up to work with her. Just because Canada is a free country doesn't mean people from other countries can show up and say they are going to start working.

Plus there's some legalities. To use a real world example, North Korea can't send some random civilians to the US to open a "Yay! North Korea is Cool!" center thats basically intended as a propaganda tool to convince US citizens that North Korea is nifty. It goes against national interests.

[steph369]

8 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

It’s absolutely an option. I quit shows before their last seasons frequently if they’re no longer worth my precious time. But it’s everyone’s individual call.

Nope, no option. How is there an option when we still want to watch the others’ stories (which they ARE also showing)? So we watch. I suppose we can always close our eyes when June’s scenes come up. 

8 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

I doubt the show cares who they retain. They’ve already decided on one last season. 

They always care about losing viewership. It’s the whole name of the game. No viewers, no show. Even if they know it’s ending, their reputation will follow them to new projects. 

[steph369]

14 hours ago, crashdown said:

That's just your opinion

It’s all just our opinions here, that’s what discussion is. This is a discussion board after all, not a fan site.

Edited September 27, 2022 by steph369

[jenn31]

9 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

I doubt the show cares who they retain.

That’ll be the day!

[jenn31]

9 hours ago, circumvent said:

and want us to just sit in awe of whatever they do, even though they don't know what they write from one season to another

Totally agree. It’s clear that a big chunk of the audience is in awe of how bad the writing has become. And I’ll keep coming back to let them know my opinion. Quit watching? No way. I’ll stay and call them on ruining the show, every time. Only takes a few minutes out of my busy schedule. 

[chocolatine]

11 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Although I am not sure what happens when Canada just decides not to let her staff into the country.

I'm sure that more than a few people from her candle holding fan club would love to be part of her "staff" on a volunteer basis (i.e., no compensation required). I'm actually surprised that a high-profile Canadian lawyer didn't already step up to represent her pro bono and get her out of custody. 

[sashabear21]

Serena (again): I helped make Gilead so I should have a major leadership role!

The men in charge of Gilead (again): "Uh yeah that's not happening"

Serena (again): *shocked Pikachu face*

Why is she continually surprised that Gilead will never give her a seat at the table? 

The only person I can really trust with any kind of decision making at this point on the show is Moira, and that's only sometimes because "I don't think it's a great idea to take a victim of PTSD into a suicide brigade cabin on the border, but okay, I'm driving"

[circumvent]

14 hours ago, Redrum said:

Because technically I don't think Mayday rescued Nicole, I think that was arranged by Lawrence.

Don't get me wrong - I think Mayday exists in some sense but from June's perspective, most of her activity has been helped along by sympathetic commanders and the Martha resistance - which is or is not associated with Mayday.

Ok, I didn't pay much attention to most of other seasons but I think there was a conversation between the Martha at Fred's house (forget her name) and June about Mayday so June being surprised is strange to say the least. Even if it wasn't Mayday who took Nichole out, there were moments of Mayday activity, even compared to the Railroad Underground, that June knew about. Wasn't there a failed attempt at some point? There is no continuity in this show

[lucindabelle]

Does anyone else think commander Lawrence was up to something with Serena? He sure encouraged her to think he might marry her, and he’s not  stupid lad, he knew how she took it which is why he said something the next day. He seeemed to have emotions touching the baby, and we knowncommander Lawrence does not actually like her.

my 90 year old moms summary of this series: she runs away, she gets caught, she gets out, she gets caught…

[Redrum]

11 hours ago, sashabear21 said:

Serena (again): I helped make Gilead so I should have a major leadership role!

The men in charge of Gilead (again): "Uh yeah that's not happening"

Serena (again): *shocked Pikachu face*

Why is she continually surprised that Gilead will never give her a seat at the table? 

This is really why Serena fails for me. She just doesn't get it that she's helped rig the system against all women and yeah, she's got a vagina so the men include her in the "bitches need to shut up, tend my home and suck my cock" category.

[BrindaWalsh]

10 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

Does anyone else think commander Lawrence was up to something with Serena? He sure encouraged her to think he might marry her, and he’s not  stupid lad, he knew how she took it which is why he said something the next day. He seeemed to have emotions touching the baby, and we knowncommander Lawrence does not actually like her.

my 90 year old moms summary of this series: she runs away, she gets caught, she gets out, she gets caught…

I think Commander Lawrence is just as much of a piece of shit as any other male in Gilead and likes fucking around with people.   Simple as that.  Shits and giggles for him.  

I think at his core, he's a true believer and perhaps just doesn't agree with the cruelty of Gilead anymore, but he's certainly not bold enough to take a stand against it in a way that would move a needle in any meaningful way.  Sure he helps handmaid's in distress, he's helped a couple of people across the border, and he helped in the murder of a founder (which was not without political benefits for himself).  But he also knows that he helped create the monstrosity that is Gilead, he has a place in its power structure and that affords him some safety and security.  He's not risking that.  Yes, he loved his wife, he didn't want to participate in  a state-sanctioned rape ritual, and he had regrets about sending thousands of women to their death in the colonies (which I don't even think he would given a second thought had his wife not fallen apart as a result of his inhumane cruelty).  But that's not a hero in my book, that's bare minimum decency.  He's out for himself.  

That said, I do think that a Serena and Lawrence alliance/pairing/whatever you want to call it would be absolutely fascinating.  And truth be told, I think if they actually went there, they'd overpower June's story too much whether they wanted to or not.  

[Kel Varnsen]

On 9/27/2022 at 1:54 PM, Redrum said:

This is really why Serena fails for me. She just doesn't get it that she's helped rig the system against all women and yeah, she's got a vagina so the men include her in the "bitches need to shut up, tend my home and suck my cock" category.

With the way they set up a social classes Gilead actually did a good (good as in terrible) job of making it so that no matter how bad your life is (especially if you are a woman) there is always a whole group of people way worse off that you can look down on and be thankful you are not part of. Like if you are a commanders wife it sucks but at least you are not a Martha. Hell if you are a handmaid at least you are not working in the colonies. And even if you are there at least you are alive. They reinforce that whole thing with the extremely different uniforms for women and it probably cuts down on a lot of the legitimate complaints. Even if there is no way to move up in the ranks.

[SourK]

On 9/25/2022 at 11:48 PM, lucindabelle said:

it’s the collective amnesia that irritates me (and the show never acknowledged it). At the height of Nazi Germany you could not have found one adult who pretended that Jews had never lived among them. And yet all the women agree to pretend they can’t read.

It bothers me too. Even in the first season, the vibe was almost like the Handmaids had been kidnapped and taken to a foreign country -- but then it's like, "No, wait. Literally all of these characters were American until, like, a year or two ago."

I think the aspect of it that gets me is how people in Gilead speak to other people as though they believe that those people have only ever lived in Gilead and somehow aren't familiar with the concept of anything else.

[Redrum]

To use the Nazi comparison, yes of course Germans knew they previously had Jewish neighbors. Now, most of them understood by 1942 that if someone came and asked them if they liked the Nazi regime and by the way where did the Cohen family go? Most of them know to say that everything is awesome under Hitler and the Cohens went to Poland to a resettlement camp where they were eventually going to end up in a special Jewish settlement in Madagascar. Since they valued their sons not being sent to the Russian front and not being arrested by the Gestapo, they kept their mouths shut.

In Gilead if a woman knows her finger or maybe her hand will be cut off if she demonstrates literacy.... how many will really risk that? Knowing its a bullet to the brain if it happens again, how many are really going to say "Yup, kill me, I can read"? I mean, they're agreeing to pretend because its a fucking death sentence. Take that scene in season three where Lawrence was taunting June in front of the other commanders by asking her to find a particular book for him. He certainly knows she can read and he also knows she'll be executed and he's getting his jollies forcing her to lie for her life. 

[lucindabelle]

Also the thing about reading is… if you’re an adult… if you see a sign you cannot NOT read it. It’s impossible to see the letters as shapes.

im Jewish and can read Hebrew phonetically, and can see the letters as shapes. But the mottos carved in English in the synagogue I cannot see without reading.

It’s a silly game and a dumb taunt but the whole way the show pretends all these post menopausal women GREW UP in gilead saying praise be etc and having all these rituals ingrained that we’re essentially invented yesterday, bugs me. They ALL remember life before Gilead. Every one. Yet we never acknowledge that. We never see a commanders wife remember king that EVER. So all the rituals are less chilling to me because I don’t really believe in them.

[Redrum]

58 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

Yet we never acknowledge that.

We did have Rapist Commander Elliot Stabler's wife Olivia quietly fangirling Serena with how she had to admit that she'd read and enjoyed Serena's books..

But there's a lot of stuff that never gets spoken. Ever notice there at absolutely no males on this show other than Luke who dislike Gilead? And aren't gay? Ever notice that no one misses ANYTHING from the old US? No one misses Sunday Football? Everyone, men and women, all love wearing one color and heavy coverings? Everyone is good with having absolutely no entertainment aside from formal dances and dinner parties? No one is upset that not only can they not watch Star Trek or Star Wars, they can't even discuss it?

Gilead appears to handle protest by blood baths but really, the point that makes this fail for me is that I don't see how the Gilead stuff appealed to enough people to rebel. 

[lucindabelle]

5 hours ago, Redrum said:

We did have Rapist Commander Elliot Stabler's wife Olivia quietly fangirling Serena with how she had to admit that she'd read and enjoyed Serena's books..

But there's a lot of stuff that never gets spoken. Ever notice there at absolutely no males on this show other than Luke who dislike Gilead? And aren't gay? Ever notice that no one misses ANYTHING from the old US? No one misses Sunday Football? Everyone, men and women, all love wearing one color and heavy coverings? Everyone is good with having absolutely no entertainment aside from formal dances and dinner parties? No one is upset that not only can they not watch Star Trek or Star Wars, they can't even discuss it?

Gilead appears to handle protest by blood baths but really, the point that makes this fail for me is that I don't see how the Gilead stuff appealed to enough people to rebel. 

Yes so much this. Nobody ever catches themselves singing a Beatles song or a rap song. Everybody is fine FOREVER at losing all their old habits. Nobody misses Cheetos. Yeah, no. 

[Redrum]

21 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

Yes so much this. Nobody ever catches themselves singing a Beatles song or a rap song. Everybody is fine FOREVER at losing all their old habits. Nobody misses Cheetos. Yeah, no. 

No one is upset that Netflix is gone? Well.... Hulu isn't upset, I suppose....  ;)

But yeah - all entertainment is gone. No music, no tv, no movies, no books for women, no sports, and if you aren't married, you don't even get the once a month sex.

I mean, even the Amish have rumspringa....

[Save Yourself]

On 10/3/2022 at 11:09 AM, Redrum said:

No one is upset that Netflix is gone? Well.... Hulu isn't upset, I suppose....  ;)

But yeah - all entertainment is gone. No music, no tv, no movies, no books for women, no sports, and if you aren't married, you don't even get the once a month sex.

I mean, even the Amish have rumspringa....

Maybe I’m misremembering but isn’t there some rule about not talking about what life was like before the fall of the USA?

[lucindabelle]

Actually that would make a great Gilead episode. Writers take note. I’d love to see all in commanders and wives forgetting themselves now and then, inadvertently waking up with a Beatles song or showtune and finding themselves singing it and then panicking. I’d love to see a commander throw a ball like a football for a second and be wistful. 
 

i mean it’s like they all sent themselves to prison. I cannot believe it wouldn’t sometimes rebound on them. Not to mention all the tv commercials stuck in heads and scenes from movies that would occur to them. And the econopeople  too. 
 

again: none of these folks was raised in Gilead. The whole society is not even a decade old. I can see fanaticism carrying them through wprivation for a year or two but by now people should be Jonesing for Twix bars. And m&ms.

Edited October 7, 2022 by lucindabelle

[Cornhusker12]

I can't remember the history of Gilead, is there a chance that maybe these higher-ups had their own customs and craziness going on up in the hills somewhere before their revolution started? Like maybe they had been this small cult for a few decades before they actually took control of an entire country?

[lucindabelle]

22 hours ago, Cornhusker12 said:

I can't remember the history of Gilead, is there a chance that maybe these higher-ups had their own customs and craziness going on up in the hills somewhere before their revolution started? Like maybe they had been this small cult for a few decades before they actually took control of an entire country?

This is the ONLY way nicks wife made sense to me.

[Hanahope]

Well there are very evangelical Christian sects that are very insular and limit female education.  So some of those might have participated in the take over.

so what happened to the Amish?  Are you telling me they agreed to shave their beards and wear the colors?  

[Redrum]

39 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

so what happened to the Amish?  Are you telling me they agreed to shave their beards and wear the colors?  

The Amish refusal to serve in the military so I don't see that going over well in Gilead.