S01.E04: Is This Not Real Magic?

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, retrograde said:

Apparently the actual actor, Leon Lamar, is 104 years old?!

😮   
✋   
“…didn't even start acting until he was in his late 70s”!

 I’m glad Rhys Coiro (Donny Blaze) “between takes…was just in a constant state of interviewing him [Leon Lamar], and learning about his amazing life,” because Leon Lamar does not have a Wikipedia page, and is now at an age where likely he has outlived those who have best known him.

[Ailianna]

Based on the birth year they gave (1919), their math is off, but 103 is just as amazing! He was great, and honestly I wanted to know more about him than I did Donny Blaze (who I thought was an idiot). Lamar gave him so much weight of personal history that I was dying to see his story.

[TiffanyNichelle]

In the post credit scene when Wongers and Madisynn were talking about drinks, Wong mentioned something about having some alcohol left over after the wedding. Do you think that wedding will come later in the show or some other show/movie or am I just reading too much into a throwaway line?

Is it Mephisto's wedding???

[paigow]

2 hours ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

Is it Mephisto's wedding???

Maybe Shang Chi & Katy

[Raja]

On 9/11/2022 at 3:32 AM, paigow said:

Maybe Shang Chi & Katy

Although I saw a couple when I watched the movie the fan consensus seems to be heavily on the  they are just platonic friends side. It would seem to be a big narrative commitment to marry Shang Chi & Katy off for a one off joke.

Edited September 12, 2022 by Raja

[cambridgeguy]

The most unrealistic thing on the show so far is the idea that Jen would get NO matches aside from that one loser, even with the corporate profile pic.  And yes, it is kind of tired that 99.9% of men suck and are apparently so oblivious they don't know Jen and She-Hulk are the same person.

[Stardancer Supreme]

5 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

The most unrealistic thing on the show so far is the idea that Jen would get NO matches aside from that one loser, even with the corporate profile pic.  And yes, it is kind of tired that 99.9% of men suck and are apparently so oblivious they don't know Jen and She-Hulk are the same person.

Oh, it's totally not unrealistic. Most guys want flashy, sexy women on the surface.  Jen's corporate headshot doesn't read sexy at all and that's what Nikki was fussing at her about.  Given a choice between plain lawyer Jen and Hot Sexy She-Hulk, which one do you think most men would pick? (Spoiler: it's the big green woman!) 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Stardancer Supreme

[xaxat]

2 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

Given a choice between plain lawyer Jen and Hot Sexy She-Hulk, which one do you think most men would pick? (Spoiler: it's the big green woman!) 

Not me. I've read Man of Steel Woman of Kleenex.

[HelloooKitty]

17 hours ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

In the post credit scene when Wongers and Madisynn were talking about drinks, Wong mentioned something about having some alcohol left over after the wedding. Do you think that wedding will come later in the show or some other show/movie or am I just reading too much into a throwaway line?

Is it Mephisto's wedding???

Oh, I just thought it was Christine’s wedding from the last Strange film. But that wouldn’t make sense bc why would Wong have the left over booze? Unless he “borrowed” it. 

[retrograde]

The post-credits scene was apparently improvised, so it's possible the actor just said the wedding thing and they left it in without any great meaning behind it. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, HelloooKitty said:

Oh, I just thought it was Christine’s wedding from the last Strange film. But that wouldn’t make sense bc why would Wong have the left over booze? Unless he “borrowed” it. 

I think in Spidey: No Way Home...

There was a reference to a forget-me-now spell being cast at a wedding that inspired the notion of having people forget Peter's identity. So the booze was probably left over from that.

[arc]

On 9/11/2022 at 12:41 AM, TiffanyNichelle said:

Do you think that wedding will come later in the show or some other show/movie or am I just reading too much into a throwaway line?

I can’t imagine Wong would haul booze back from some other location, so it had to be held at Kamar-Taj, which has only three MCU-important characters connected, maybe four: Doctor Strange, Wong, Mordo … and America Chavez, I guess. Mordo has left the flock. Wong’s probably not watching TV by himself if he’s so recently married that there’s still booze lying around. Strange is not yet at a point to be marrying anyone, and Chavez is way too young to be marrying anyone.

[paigow]

3 hours ago, arc said:

and Chavez is way too young to be marrying anyone.

There might be another Chavez variant... Or 7 Wives for Emil Blonsky

[MrWhyt]

22 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

Given a choice between plain lawyer Jen and Hot Sexy She-Hulk, which one do you think most men would pick? (Spoiler: it's the big green woman!) 

the one who won't damage a sensitive part of my anatomy through accidental use of her extreme strength

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 9/9/2022 at 6:36 PM, arc said:

Donny didn’t even wear his sling ring full time! He put it on when he felt he was losing his audience. He probably doesn’t sleep with it on. Wong coulda pulled the same trick Strange did in DS1 where he stole a book out of the library with a tiny portal just big enough to reach a hand through.

Yes!  That's what  I was thinking.

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 9/11/2022 at 3:39 PM, Stardancer Supreme said:

Most guys want flashy, sexy women on the surface.  Jen's corporate headshot doesn't read sexy at all and that's what Nikki was fussing at her about.  Given a choice between plain lawyer Jen and Hot Sexy She-Hulk, which one do you think most men would pick? (Spoiler: it's the big green woman!) 

I would like to live in a world where "plain" was an accurate adjective to describe someone portrayed by Tatiana M., in live action and without some sort of gimmick or crazy makeup/prosthetics.

And add me to the list of men who would prefer Jen Walters to She-Hulk for the following reasons (among others):

1. I'd have a strong suspicion I'd be getting catfished with "She-Hulk" (especially after the Runa/Megan Thee Stallion situation) whereas there's not much reason to think that Jen Walters isn't a real person, even if you make the She-Hulk connection on your own.

2. Even assuming it was the real She-Hulk, you would have a lot to worry about on a date that you wouldn't seemingly with a lawyer -- random supervillains/demons/robots/wizards/aliens showing up and paparazzi are two of the things that come to mind first. Then there's that you probably would have to wade through a lot more competition from curiosity seekers and celebrity fanboys.

3. While it might be a cool story to say "I went out with She-Hulk" or even "I slept with She-Hulk," there are a lot of potential ramifications there. Could a normal person actually sexually please someone who can get hit with a Mack Truck and not feel it? Are you at risk for being crushed by someone who is superstrong on that level? Does exchanging bodily fluids with someone who's got gamma-irradiated blood seem like a good idea? Would I be at risk for becoming a Hulk even if I had a condom made of unstable molecules?

4. Assuming we're both looking for a relationship and start one, what happens if things go wrong on the date/in the relationship? To paraphrase the tagline for her cuz, bet I wouldn't like it when she's angry.  Hot Doc is lucky that she's way more mellow than she could have been after he decided to hit it and quit it. (Although who knows? Maybe part of this season will involve Hot Doc coming to grips with his issue with merely-human Jen and coming back to her life).

[Cattoy]

3 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

the one who won't damage a sensitive part of my anatomy through accidental use of her extreme strength

Penile fractures are a real thing, and, no, you don't want to Google images of it.

[Stardancer Supreme]

Sigh. Obviously Jen was able to get down as She-Hulk without damaging the Hot Doctor.  He was only in it for the big green woman and not Jen as herself. 

[Raja]

Jen is in total control. I'm sure Jessica Jones will be jealous when she finds out.

[Zaffy]

Do not forget this is a universe with Super heroes, Aliens, Magic, etc etc. So we do not really know how people would respond to dating apps or to anything really. For me, it is not weird that most of the men preferred She-Hulk. 

[MrWhyt]

2 hours ago, Cattoy said:

Penile fractures are a real thing, and, no, you don't want to Google images of it.

I was thinking of those along with pelvic fractures, or inadvertent skull squishing

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

Sigh. Obviously Jen was able to get down as She-Hulk without damaging the Hot Doctor.  He was only in it for the big green woman and not Jen as herself. 

That Hot Doc did not have any apparent damage doesn't mean that the risks of said damage aren't real. Or that he might not have been damaged in some other way.

There's also some measure of hope that Hot Doc comes to realize that big green woman and Jen are the same person and that he's interested in them both, though I'm not holding my breath. As well as the possibility that he was genuinely attracted to Jen for her personality (rather than the physical attraction to beefy green women) but weirded out by the for-some-reason unexpected existence of normal-human Jen.

2 hours ago, Raja said:

Jen is in total control. I'm sure Jessica Jones will be jealous when she finds out.

Jessica's main sex was with another super in Luke Cage. It's possible if/when Jen has sex with another powered person she would be less in control.

1 hour ago, Zaffy said:

Do not forget this is a universe with Super heroes, Aliens, Magic, etc etc. So we do not really know how people would respond to dating apps or to anything really. For me, it is not weird that most of the men preferred She-Hulk. 

No doubt that many people would be interested in She-Hulk than Jen. But I do imagine that it is unrealistic that almost no one would be interested in someone who looked like human Jen other than a handful of losers in a city as big as L.A. I get that the lack of interest is needed to set up the jokes and whatnot, but there's no way that someone who looks as hot as Jen does in her normal form, who apparently makes good money as a lawyer, who's smart, funny and has a halfway decent personality would be completely bereft of dating opportunities on a Friday night. I mean, I've been out of the dating scene for about two decades, so maybe I'm off base here. 

[RobertDeSneero]

17 hours ago, arc said:

I can’t imagine Wong would haul booze back from some other location

Remember when Wong wouldn't say no to a tuna melt and had the equivalent of a buck fifty in his pocket?  I'm sure Wong grabs whatever freebies he can to take back to the non-materialistic Kamar-Taj.  He's probably borrowing someone else's account to binge-stream the Sopranos.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

But I do imagine that it is unrealistic that almost no one would be interested in someone who looked like human Jen other than a handful of losers in a city as big as L.A.

I agree but the show isn’t showing that. Jen has been hit on in person. She was hit on in this episode. I have no problem with the idea that the men who were using the dating app wouldn’t be interested in Jen based on her profile and picture. It has nothing to do with how attractive she is or isn’t but what the other people on the app are looking for. 

[paigow]

54 minutes ago, RobertDeSneero said:

He's probably borrowing someone else's account to binge-stream the Sopranos.

How is he unaware that the Spoiler Statute Of Limitations no longer applies to Tony & Co...

[HelloooKitty]

I’ve decided I  want Madisynn to just randomly turn up in the background of scenes.

Spidey is battling a bad guy? Hey look! There’s Madisynn grabbing a bottle of vodka before running out of the bar!

Another battle in NYC? There’s Madisynn picking her way over all the rubble in her 4 inch heels! 

Wong and or Strange are jumping through dimensions? Madisynn is just randomly hanging out in a fire world with the talking goat.  

Madisynn in season 2 of Loki trying to explain her TVA name tag is spelled wrong! 

Madisynn with Morris the hundun in her lap telling him he’s a good boy, yes he is and petting him. 
 

 

[Guest]

On 9/11/2022 at 8:44 AM, cambridgeguy said:

The most unrealistic thing on the show so far is the idea that Jen would get NO matches aside from that one loser, even with the corporate profile pic.  And yes, it is kind of tired that 99.9% of men suck and are apparently so oblivious they don't know Jen and She-Hulk are the same person.

I think it’s interesting how differently this show is perceived. I’ve seen a lot of posts mostly by men on social media saying the same thing and I’ve seen a lot by women absolutely relating to Jen’s experience. Women pointing out that it’s not that no one wants to date her but that no one she wants to date wants to date her. Obviously it’s not universal but there are a lot of women who relate to Jen’s experience who get that same “how could you be single” reaction.

Maybe her options are just awful and maybe she just picking the wrong people but I don’t see that has being a more general statement about men as a whole. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

30 minutes ago, Dani said:

I think it’s interesting how differently this show is perceived. I’ve seen a lot of posts mostly by men on social media saying the same thing and I’ve seen a lot by women absolutely relating to Jen’s experience. Women pointing out that it’s not that no one wants to date her but that no one she wants to date wants to date her. Obviously it’s not universal but there are a lot of women who relate to Jen’s experience who get that same “how could you be single” reaction.

Maybe her options are just awful and maybe she just picking the wrong people but I don’t see that has being a more general statement about men as a whole. 

I could get the notion that Jen Walters is attracting only sub-par people that she doesn't date, but that's not what the show says. The show made a joke that she got an alert where she had zero matches as Jen, prompting her to make a statement to the effect of "why do they even have an alert for that." 

It is the near-complete lack of interest in Jen Walters that prompts her to create the She-Hulk profile and say she's not proud of this. 

Which is not to say of course that there aren't gorgeous and wonderful women who have tough times attracting worthy guys, or that such women are wrong to relate to Jen's frustrations. But what the show portrays is that pretty much no one at all is interested in human-seeming Jen.

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I could get the notion that Jen Walters is attracting only sub-par people that she doesn't date, but that's not what the show says. The show made a joke that she got an alert where she had zero matches as Jen, prompting her to make a statement to the effect of "why do they even have an alert for that." 

That’s not what I meant. My point is that it’s not one sided and that Jen didn’t get the zero matches alert immediately. It’s not like she just put her profile up and no one was interested. She made her matches (and Nikki made a few). We have no idea how many of those she was matched with and she rejected or how many dates we didn’t see. We see her on a bad date so clearly some time as passed and then the no matches alert.

When I said she may be picking the wrong people I meant she may be only picking the men who are not interested in someone on the more serious side. She clearly has a type. 

When she signs up as She Hulk she is swiping much more freely and quickly which undoubtedly also plays a part in her matches. The dates she ended up on as She Hulk supports the idea that that she might not be picking the best matches. 

57 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Which is not to say of course that there aren't gorgeous and wonderful women who have tough times attracting worthy guys, or that such women are wrong to relate to Jen's frustrations. But what the show portrays is that pretty much no one at all is interested in human-seeming Jen.

I just disagree. In my opinion there is a lot more to what was shown than just that zero matches moment. 

[shapeshifter]

Jen's online matching and dating experience seemed driven mostly to just develop her character a bit more and for humor. 
That said, IRL, I think there are statistics that show men are less likely to swipe right for women who outrank them professionally, such as lawyers.
Assuming this is true in-show, would a doctor swipe left for a lawyer? 
Did the doctor-date know She-Hulk was also a lawyer from her profile?
Even if the average app swiper would know who She-Hulk was from the evening news, a pediatric oncologist might not take time to watch the news. 
I don't watch enough of these shows and movies to know or even guess whether being a superhero would outrank being a lawyer (or doctor) in dating app polls, but apparently in the show's universe, superhero women get statistically off-the-charts more right swipes by men than do lawyer women——presumably (at least to me) for the novelty of it.

Also:
Do swipers even know whether she was a real superhero and not just a cosplay superhero?
Or are cosplayers not really a thing in a universe of real superheroes? At least not in this show's universe's dating apps?

Edited September 13, 2022 by shapeshifter

[Llywela]

1 minute ago, shapeshifter said:

Do swipers even know whether she was a real superhero and not just a cosplay superhero?

Or are cosplayers not really a thing in a universe of real superheroes? At least not in that universe's dating apps?

The Ms Marvel show tells us that superhero cosplayers are absolutely a thing in this universe. Whether or not they cosplay on dating apps is another matter, though!

[Kirbyrun]

On 9/9/2022 at 12:57 PM, Tachi Rocinante said:

• However, the "all men suck" trope is just plain lazy.

I'm sorry, but I just don’t see this at all.

• Bruce
• Jen’s dad
• Mr. Holliway
• Pug
• Wong
• Even Emil Blonsky

All are well-rounded and don’t suck in the least.

The only men who suck are Jen’s ex-coworker from the DA’s office and the asshats she matched with on the app. Which…the idea of matching with asshats of whatever gender is by now a time-honored comedy trope that has nothing to do with anything except that it gives us a funny montage.

Donny Blaze is just a dude trying to get by, with no evil to his character. He’s just trying to make it through and is a comedic element like Madisynn.

I would argue that Dr. One-Nighter doesn’t suck, either. He hooked up with She-Hulk and woke up with Jen. That’s some serious cognitive dissonance there, and I don’t blame him for needing to take a breath. If we’re following rom-com rules, then I’m willing to bet he’ll be back in a future episode, apologize for bolting, and explain that he needed to process Jen’s (somewhat) unique circumstances.

[shapeshifter]

6 minutes ago, Kirbyrun said:

I would argue that Dr. One-Nighter doesn’t suck, either. He hooked up with She-Hulk and woke up with Jen. That’s some serious cognitive dissonance there, and I don’t blame him for needing to take a breath. If we’re following rom-com rules, then I’m willing to bet he’ll be back in a future episode, apologize for bolting, and explain that he needed to process Jen’s (somewhat) unique circumstances.

Or, if Dr. One-Nighter is not going to appear in any other episodes, an apology bouquet of flowers from him might arrive with a note stating👆this and that he's sorry, but it's just not going to work.

[AncientNewbie]

I really enjoyed this ep. My dating days were done long before there was an app for that, so I have no knowledge of the workings beyond what's a normal comedy trope. I just like when we get more non-CGI Tatiana reacting to things. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

7 hours ago, Kirbyrun said:

I'm sorry, but I just don’t see this at all.

• Bruce
• Jen’s dad
• Mr. Holliway
• Pug
• Wong
• Even Emil Blonsky

All are well-rounded and don’t suck in the least.

The only men who suck are Jen’s ex-coworker from the DA’s office and the asshats she matched with on the app. Which…the idea of matching with asshats of whatever gender is by now a time-honored comedy trope that has nothing to do with anything except that it gives us a funny montage.

Donny Blaze is just a dude trying to get by, with no evil to his character. He’s just trying to make it through and is a comedic element like Madisynn.

I would argue that Dr. One-Nighter doesn’t suck, either. He hooked up with She-Hulk and woke up with Jen. That’s some serious cognitive dissonance there, and I don’t blame him for needing to take a breath. If we’re following rom-com rules, then I’m willing to bet he’ll be back in a future episode, apologize for bolting, and explain that he needed to process Jen’s (somewhat) unique circumstances.

I'll give you Jen's Dad and Wong.

Bruce did kind of suck within limits -- testing her Hulkiness by putting her in the bladed danger room, waking her with loud noises to scare her into being a Hulk, having a little ego thing and getting into a physical fight with her about trying to keep her in Mexico when she wants to get back to her life are all kind of objectively douchey moves. We forgive him because we've spent a lot of time with him, but he's kind of a jerk.

Holloway is a dick, period, paragraph. He hired Jen not for her lawyering skills but because she's She-Hulk, and he forced her to embarrassingly transform in front of everyone and makes her do all her work in her She-Hulk form when she doesn't want to. 

We will see how Pug develops, but so far he seems to be what the kids these days call a simp.

I'm fairly sure that not-too-deeply under his reform facade, Blonsky will prove to be by the end of the season a raging hypocrite if not a threat for Jen to actually fight. But assuming that what we've seen is the sum of what he is, he's likely a self-centered jerk who traffics in hippie-speak, ignores Jen's advice and practices a sketchy form of polyamory. 

I think Hot Doc could be classified as sucking, or he can redeem himself, or he can be neutral. We'll see if he makes a return appearance.

Men who are neutral: the judge at the Runa trial. Maybe process server guy.

Other men who suck:

Catcalling guys from episode 1 who cause her to have her first hulk out

Jen's former sexist DA co-worker

Jen's DA boss who fires her because of her being a Hulk even though she is good at her job

News guy who has Jen on to talk about her health and diet secrets

The Wrecking Crew

The skeptical guy from the parole board is almost neutral, but he kind of sucked.

Donnie Blaze and his posse of poseurs. Yes it's played for laughs but he is irresponsibly sending people to random dimensions where people anything and everything could happen. He's also self-important and sexist when he hits on Jen, and a frat boy who knows just enough magic to be dangerous.

The parade of men Jen dated.

Women who suck:

Titania and Runa are about it. And Runa is actually kind of fun. I guess among the press there was one or two women who were a little jerky.

Women who are neutral: The one judge and Runa's lawyer. I assume the other female coworker from the Superhuman Law division will prove to be cool, but we have only so far seen her get grossed out by ex-colleague. Blonsky's 7/8ths.

Women who are cool to awesome: 

Nikki

Megan Thee Stallion

Head of the parole board

Jen's mom

Madisynn

Not that I have a problem with there being a disproportionate number of men who suck, but it's not like there's an even portrayal here.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Kirbyrun said:

I'm sorry, but I just don’t see this at all.

• Bruce
• Jen’s dad
• Mr. Holliway
• Pug
• Wong
• Even Emil Blonsky

All are well-rounded and don’t suck in the least.

The only men who suck are Jen’s ex-coworker from the DA’s office and the asshats she matched with on the app. Which…the idea of matching with asshats of whatever gender is by now a time-honored comedy trope that has nothing to do with anything except that it gives us a funny montage.

Donny Blaze is just a dude trying to get by, with no evil to his character. He’s just trying to make it through and is a comedic element like Madisynn.

I would argue that Dr. One-Nighter doesn’t suck, either. He hooked up with She-Hulk and woke up with Jen. That’s some serious cognitive dissonance there, and I don’t blame him for needing to take a breath. If we’re following rom-com rules, then I’m willing to bet he’ll be back in a future episode, apologize for bolting, and explain that he needed to process Jen’s (somewhat) unique circumstances.

I agree with you. Like your post points out there are distinctions to be made between the characters. The male characters that truly suck to me are pretty limited to the actual harasses, attackers and pervs. Most of the others are just like ordinary people with good and bad qualities. 
 

[Bruinsfan]

On 9/12/2022 at 6:26 PM, Zaffy said:

Do not forget this is a universe with Super heroes, Aliens, Magic, etc etc. So we do not really know how people would respond to dating apps or to anything really. For me, it is not weird that most of the men preferred She-Hulk. 

I think there's a whole generation of men brought up on Star Trek and its green Orion slave girls for whom Jen in She-Hulk form would be the realization of a lifelong fantasy.

[paigow]

14 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

I think there's a whole generation of men brought up on Star Trek and its green Orion slave girls for whom Jen in She-Hulk form would be the realization of a lifelong fantasy.

But Orion women were not giants that could post up Shaq / Barkley/ Zion

Edited September 23, 2022 by paigow

[Raja]

17 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

I think there's a whole generation of men brought up on Star Trek and its green Orion slave girls for whom Jen in She-Hulk form would be the realization of a lifelong fantasy.

And then Enterprise came along to retcon the Orion syndicate and made it okay since the male pimps,  not the women, were the actual slaves 

[Ailianna]

5 hours ago, Raja said:

And then Enterprise came along to retcon the Orion syndicate and made it okay since the male pimps,  not the women, were the actual slaves 

I never watched that one, so I hadn't heard of this before. My question though is, why is it ok for anyone to be the slaves?

I'm interested in the very different levels of confidence we see in Jen versus She-Hulk. Jen really is awesome entirely on her own, but she doesn't see it.

[Raja]

58 minutes ago, Ailianna said:

I never watched that one, so I hadn't heard of this before. My question though is, why is it ok for anyone to be the slaves?

I'm interested in the very different levels of confidence we see in Jen versus She-Hulk. Jen really is awesome entirely on her own, but she doesn't see it.

It makes it okay to fantasize about having the Orion woman do those things to you because she really wants to, she is not a slave forced by a pimp and their syndicate to do those things.

[Ailianna]

I understand that the sexual fantasy is "ok" because the slave girls are supposedly free. Why is it ok for the pimps to be slaves?

[Raja]

8 minutes ago, Ailianna said:

I understand that the sexual fantasy is "ok" because the slave girls are supposedly free. Why is it ok for the pimps to be slaves?

It is not okay for them to be slaves but people generally don't fantasize about the pimp, be he the slave owner or a slave salesman pulling in business from outside while they are having sex inside.