S01.E11: Home of the Brave

[AntFTW]

Assuming that Cayla and Justine didn't quit during the individual stage, Sarah's only competition was really Cayla.

Even if Sarah came in dead last on the individual stage and Justine came in first, she would have had more points than Justine. Cayla would have edged out Sarah by 1 point if Sarah came in last in the individual stage and Cayla came in first.

Sarah was sitting in a pretty good spot by the time the individual portion kicked in. Even if Angela would have timed out and taken the two points, Angela would have had to come in 1st place to have a chance. If Sarah had taken 2nd behind Angela on the individual portion, Sarah would have still won. She would have had more points than Angela still.

Edited September 15, 2022 by AntFTW

[seacliffsal]

28 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

I think they have to complete the final to keep the money, so I don't think so. Even though he was willing, he didn't get to complete the final and gets no money.

Thanks for clarifying this for me.  However, I do think it unfair to make him (Ben) fly all the way to the finale (and all the days involved) just to send him home again.  I would have to imagine that they knew the doctor's report before flying him there.  Again, I know that I'm think way too muchy about this show.

[aghst]

36 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

Assuming that Cayla and Justine didn't quit during the individual stage, Sarah's only competition was really Cayla.

Even if Sarah came in dead last on the individual stage and Justine came in first, she would have had more points than Justine. Cayla would have edged out Sarah by 1 point if Sarah came in last in the individual stage and Cayla came in first.

Sarah was sitting in a pretty good spot by the time the individual portion kicked in. Even if Angela would have timed out and taken the two points, Angela would have had to come in 1st place to have a chance. If Sarah had taken 2nd behind Angela on the individual portion, Sarah would have still won. She would have had more points than Angela still.

Cayla said she was good at Sudoku but doesn't seem like she got very far before quitting.  They were standing near each other when 3 of them quit at the same time so maybe they discussed it.

[mojoween]

If the International version is contestants from international reality shows, I probably won’t watch and just follow some recaps to see how Danny is doing.  I was irritated enough at like eight Love Island people I didn’t know.

Onions and garlic WITH lemon juice?  That eating part was laaaaaaaame.

[mertensia]

Sarah has crazy eyes.

[AntFTW]

2 minutes ago, aghst said:

Cayla said she was good at Sudoku but doesn't seem like she got very far before quitting.  They were standing near each other when 3 of them quit at the same time so maybe they discussed it.

That's possible. Tyson was definitely checking in on everyone.

I think Justine quit before Cayla did, if I'm remembering it right. If that's the case and it's just Cayla and Sarah, Sarah comes in 2nd on the individual portion and beats Cayla. Sarah would take the edge over Cayla by 1 point.

1 minute ago, mertensia said:

Sarah has crazy eyes.

All season, Sarah has been acting like someone ate her Greek salad.

(for those who get the reference) 😉

[leocadia]

If someone had told me last week that Angela would face an elimination, Dom would break the "alliance" and send Alyssa in against her, Angela would DQ herself and Tyson would quit...I would have called them a delusional fool.   The only unsurprising moment was Enzo--king of the "I'm gonna take  this final" talking heads--tapping out on the first task.  Too bad Desi got the bad draw.  As someone who has been burned by The Challenge time and time again (the people I like inevitably lose while the obnoxious ones generally win)  I was pretty happy with the outcome.  If Sarah had gone out with Enzo and any of Cayla/Justine/Desi had replaced her as the winner, I would have been ecstatic.

There was a point at which Tyson said something about how he and Angela didn't need to rush because they were so far ahead and it reminded me of The Tortoise and The Hare, but I never believed it would actually come to pass.  I think Tyson gave up once Danny left Sudoku and he realized that he had lost the big money.  It wasn't worth it for him to finish for the $18k he had banked.  

I think Justine actually had the hardest solo trip, having to remember all those numbers herself.  Sarah's only disadvantage was completing the puzzle alone (sometimes easier if you're good at puzzles), Cayla had the same amount of food to eat as the other women and Angela had less dirt than the two person teams.  I think she's used to things going her way and acted like a spoiled brat when they didn't.  I think Sarah is obnoxious, over-confident and humorless, but good for her for finishing even when she was certain she'd lost.  

[Libby]

Tyson said that Sarah never finished the first puzzle on the final leg. They just let her continue. The Challenge seems to have very arbitrary rules. Considering the amount of money on the line, I honestly don't know why the contestants let them get away with it. I certainly wouldn't compete in a competition for six weeks, just to have them make up whatever rules they want at the end. I think that Danny legitimately won. The women's side of things was totally messed up from the very beginning and stayed that way through the entire final. I don't think that Sarah's win was legitimate.

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, mertensia said:

Sarah has crazy eyes.

I think she may have a thyroid problem or something because her eyes are always like that.

1 hour ago, mojoween said:

If the International version is contestants from international reality shows, I probably won’t watch and just follow some recaps to see how Danny is doing.  I was irritated enough at like eight Love Island people I didn’t know.

There will be a The Challenge: UK, The Challenge: Argentina, and The Challenge: Australia with contestants from reality shows in those countries. Oddly enough, it doesn't seem like any of them will even be available to watch in the US so I don't know why they expect us to give a shit about the final competition on Paramount+.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, peachmangosteen said:

There will be a The Challenge: UK, The Challenge: Argentina, and The Challenge: Australia with contestants from reality shows in those countries. Oddly enough, it doesn't seem like any of them will even be available to watch in the US so I don't know why they expect us to give a shit about the final competition on Paramount+.

That does seem counter-productive.  I figured they would all be available on Paramount+.

[peachmangosteen]

I figured that, too. I read something about them not airing on Paramount+ though. I have to hope that's false though because it really doesn't make sense.

[AntFTW]

I'll probably tune in for the final competition thingy.

Because I'm weak...

I love this stupid show

Even though I hated this USA thing. It was boring as fuck.

[AntFTW]

1 hour ago, Libby said:

Tyson said that Sarah never finished the first puzzle on the final leg. They just let her continue. The Challenge seems to have very arbitrary rules.

If that happened, that's normal.

She timed out. Once players time-out on a particular checkpoint, they get to move on. Players do time out on checkpoints often on the MTV show. They get to move on at some point if they don't finish.

Had Tyson, Dom, Justine and Cayla stuck with the Sudoku puzzle and never solved it, eventually, they would have timed out and would have been allowed to move on in whatever order they came.

Edited September 15, 2022 by AntFTW

[DEL901]

8 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

If that happened, that's normal.

She timed out. Once players time-out on a particular checkpoint, they get to use on. Players do time out on checkpoints often on the MTV show. They get to move on at some point if they don't finish.

Had Tyson, Dom, Justine and Cayla stuck with the Sudoku puzzle and never solved it, eventually, they would have timed out and would have been allowed to move on in whatever order they came.

Agree.  Timing out while you are trying to complete the task isn’t the same as not trying. 

[KeithJ]

16 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

If that happened, that's normal.

She timed out. Once players time-out on a particular checkpoint, they get to move on. Players do time out on checkpoints often on the MTV show. They get to move on at some point if they don't finish.

Had Tyson, Dom, Justine and Cayla stuck with the Sudoku puzzle and never solved it, eventually, they would have timed out and would have been allowed to move on in whatever order they came.

I'm not sure.  The two time-outs previously were the last two teams on the previous puzzles and it seemed like that as soon as the second to last team finished, they timed-out and didn't have to finish.  I think only the last team / player can time-out (but who really knows what the actual rules are).

[AntFTW]

1 hour ago, leocadia said:

I think Justine actually had the hardest solo trip, having to remember all those numbers herself.  Sarah's only disadvantage was completing the puzzle alone (sometimes easier if you're good at puzzles), Cayla had the same amount of food to eat as the other women and Angela had less dirt than the two person teams.  I think she's used to things going her way and acted like a spoiled brat when they didn't.  I think Sarah is obnoxious, over-confident and humorless, but good for her for finishing even when she was certain she'd lost.

I agree with that.

Justine had to do the job of two people.

The best leg to be alone was the eating portion because everyone ate the same amount. It's not like the pairs were splitting plates. They each had their own portions to finish.

Angela had less dirt. I going to assume she had half the amount that the pairs did.

As for Sarah, I can say that I understand her feelings of contemplating quitting when she's last. I'm glad she stuck it out. Being where she was with the hex puzzle and being so far behind, I would have assumed that I lost and there would be nothing for me to gain by finishing. Saying this from the warmth and comfort of my own home, I would have quit. Being so far behind, mentally, I would have been too disheartened to continue. I would have assumed that I lost. She probably wasn't thinking about the points though because she had a pretty good lead on everyone when it came to those points, to the point where she had to finish to have a legit shot at winning (assuming others didn't quit).

[AntFTW]

12 minutes ago, KeithJ said:

I'm not sure.  The two time-outs previously were the last two teams on the previous puzzles and it seemed like that as soon as the second to last team finished, they timed-out and didn't have to finish.  I think only the last team / player can time-out (but who really knows what the actual rules are).

That's different because they were operating on a points system with each puzzle. If there are 4 teams, and 3 teams complete the puzzle, the last remaining team is in last place. The last place team, or person, doesn't need to finish to be in last place.

In the individual portion, they didn't get points for each puzzle. They only get points when they get to the finish line.

Edited September 15, 2022 by AntFTW

[peachmangosteen]

I figure they probably told Sarah to finish because everyone else quit. They couldn't just not have a winner since this is a continuing thing. Which means they likely relaxed the rules for Sarah.

[AntFTW]

2 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I figure they probably told Sarah to finish because everyone else quit. They couldn't just not have a winner since this is a continuing thing. Which means they likely relaxed the rules for Sarah.

I just listened to the Challenge podcast, which real-life Kiki was on. Sarah claims that she thought she was so far behind that when she got to the top, it was only her. She thought everyone had finished and moved on to whatever little rest area that they have.

It seems she didn't find out that everyone else quit until she finished. Danny seems to back her up on that because she asked Danny wherever everyone else was, and Danny told her he didn't see anyone else. It seems that Danny also didn't know the others quit until him and Sarah met up at the end.

[peachmangosteen]

I just don't buy it lol. The Challenge, like all competitive reality shows, is so manipulated. 

I don't get why Production let this happen though. They should have told people at sudoku that after 30 minutes they would time out. I bet at least a couple of them would have finished then.

[aghst]

Sarah cited her 7 year old son, said that she didn't want him to see her quit.

Maybe she really doesn't believe that but the way she boasts how bad ass she is, maybe she thought that she would have less credibility in her son's eyes if she couldn't at least complete the race.

Certainly parents want to set a positive example if they can.

[bunnyface]

49 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

I agree with that.

Justine had to do the job of two people.

The best leg to be alone was the eating portion because everyone ate the same amount. It's not like the pairs were splitting plates. They each had their own portions to finish.

Angela had less dirt. I going to assume she had half the amount that the pairs did.

As for Sarah, I can say that I understand her feelings of contemplating quitting when she's last. I'm glad she stuck it out. Being where she was with the hex puzzle and being so far behind, I would have assumed that I lost and there would be nothing for me to gain by finishing. Saying this from the warmth and comfort of my own home, I would have quit. Being so far behind, mentally, I would have been too disheartened to continue. I would have assumed that I lost. She probably wasn't thinking about the points though because she had a pretty good lead on everyone when it came to those points, to the point where she had to finish to have a legit shot at winning (assuming others didn't quit).

Well, apparently Justine didn't have to finish the solo trip.  They let her go on, thus setting the precedent that Angela thought she would be allowed to go on also.  In one of the interviews, they said Angela had about 2/3 as much dirt as everyone else, so in team, each would do half, but she still had to do 2/3 on her own.  And none of them even finished moving the dirt.  Production let them stop and just judged who came in where by how much dirt they had moved.  So if Angela had at least tried to stick it out, she might have been okay.  But again, she thought she could take the loss and move on because that's what they let Justine do.  It was really messed up all around.

[AntFTW]

32 minutes ago, bunnyface said:

Well, apparently Justine didn't have to finish the solo trip.  They let her go on, thus setting the precedent that Angela thought she would be allowed to go on also. 

Justine did have to finish up until everyone else finished before she even got the puzzle on her solo leg. They didn't let Justine do anything.

Everyone else finished before Justine started the puzzle. She was automatically last. She didn't stop in the middle of doing the checkpoint. Justine didn't give up on doing the checkpoint and opted to just take last place. Everyone else beat her. There was no point in her finishing because she was automatically last, and got the points of the last place finisher.

They could have let her finish the puzzle, and she would have been last. They could have just timed her out after everyone else finished (as they did), and she'd be last. Either way, she's last but she didn't quit the checkpoint.

32 minutes ago, bunnyface said:

Production let them stop and just judged who came in where by how much dirt they had moved.  So if Angela had at least tried to stick it out, she might have been okay.  But again, she thought she could take the loss and move on because that's what they let Justine do.  It was really messed up all around.

Had Angela kept moving the dirt, and was the last one remaining after everyone else finished, they probably would have timed her out then and gave her last place.

Edited September 15, 2022 by AntFTW

[luckyroll3]

After an entire season of these folks deciding who was "worthy" to be in the final, they all quit! And with quitting, they let Sarah beat them! Although I'm not mad at her win. She's whiny and obnoxious, but she pushed through even after she thought she lost. 

And Angela and her stank "I'm in charge. Everyone has to do what I say" attitude is so much worse. The only thing that would have been better than her beauty rest DQ is if she had been paired with Enzo in the first round. 

[KeithJ]

1 hour ago, bunnyface said:

Well, apparently Justine didn't have to finish the solo trip.  They let her go on, thus setting the precedent that Angela thought she would be allowed to go on also.  In one of the interviews, they said Angela had about 2/3 as much dirt as everyone else, so in team, each would do half, but she still had to do 2/3 on her own. 

How is that even fair?  She had to move 2/3 of a pile while each of the other players had to average 1/2 of a pile moved?

[AntFTW]

40 minutes ago, KeithJ said:

How is that even fair?  She had to move 2/3 of a pile while each of the other players had to average 1/2 of a pile moved?

Tyson, on his podcast, says production tells Angela that she has to move 2/3 of the dirt since it's only her.

Tyson also says that after a while, production decided to end the checkpoint because it was clear that no one other than Dom and Sarah were going to finish. Therefore, production and Dom and Sarah apparently agree that the end of the dirt digging checkpoint is the point where Dom and Sarah finishes the checkpoint. After Dom and Sarah, everyone is placed according to their progress. Nobody other Dom and Sarah got to finish that checkpoint and they timed everyone else out and 2nd place and 3rd place, and so on, took their places according to their progress. Apparently, Angela quit before they got to that point.

Edited September 16, 2022 by AntFTW

[AntFTW]

I will say this about Tyson's podcast, I may have listened to one episode of Tyson's podcast before this one about the final but he makes it sound like he was getting unfair treatment because he didn't know how to do a sudoku puzzle and he didn't get to time out of the sudoku puzzle but Sarah got to time out of the hex puzzle.

He makes it sounds like its unfair that Angela gets kicked off for not finishing the dirt digging checkpoint while there are others who also didn't finish and they didn't get kicked off. He kinda brushes off that Angela stopped participating, unlike himself and Cayla, Justine and Danny, and Dom and Sarah. He focuses on the fact that she didn't finish, but not that she quit. That's a distinction I think he ignores.

He makes it sounds like its unfair that Justine got to time out of the word puzzle when she didn't finish but himself and Angela didn't get to time out on their respective checkpoints that they quit on.

I think he's painting a view wherein he, Tyson Apostol, was wronged because other people got away with conduct that he couldn't get away with meanwhile he gets punished and Angela gets punished.

Edited September 16, 2022 by AntFTW

[snarts]

Tyson's an arrogant prick but in this situation he's not wrong. The rules were quite arbitrary and applied inconsistently across the various teams & checkpoints. 

The fact that so many of them called bullshit & quit mid-challenge supports that he's not alone in his criticism. As an OG Challenge watcher, it was frustrating to watch. This USA version already felt completely inauthentic, the finale was an embarrassment.

[AntFTW]

1 hour ago, snarts said:

Tyson's an arrogant prick but in this situation he's not wrong. The rules were quite arbitrary and applied inconsistently across the various teams & checkpoints. 

I don't think he's entirely wrong but I think he's kinda wrong but again, not entirely.

I think Angela quit. I don't think there was any inconsistency about that. She quit before the checkpoint was over and therefore, she was DQed. To me, that's not a debate. Therefore, I think the frustration/confusion/bullshit-calling over Angela is not justified. Regardless of how unfair the amount of dirt she had to move, she quit. Tyson says she got DQed for not finishing, but that's wrong. She got DQed for quitting. It's unfair that she had to move 2/3 of the dirt. It would also be unfair if everyone else completed the checkpoint or timed out, and Angela chose to "opt-out" and received no penalty.

On Justine, I think her being timed out was justified because after watching the show and listening to a couple of interviews, nobody ever says, or show, that she quit. On Justine's solo checkpoint, it makes no sense for her to continue if everyone else had already finished. By default, she's the last place finisher. They could have her finish and wait for her to be last, or they can just tell her everybody else finished so you are getting last. I think just giving her last is a fair call considering that she didn't quit. In Tyson's podcast, Tyson says production told Justine that she forgot the wheel-thing to complete the puzzle, and she was about to go back and get it. Instead, she was timed out because she placed last anyway.

On Sarah's time-out for her hex puzzle, I don't feel like there is enough detail for me to have an opinion on whether it was fair. I don't know how long she stayed at the checkpoint. I don't know how long Tyson stayed at the sudoku puzzle. I don't know how long the players needed to stay at a puzzle before timing out. They usually never reveal the time you have to spend at a puzzle before timing out.

1 hour ago, snarts said:

This USA version already felt completely inauthentic, the finale was an embarrassment.

I feel the same.

Although I loved the misery. Those are always my favorite parts. Dom said "we've been soaking wet for two days", and I, while wrapped in my warm blanket on the couch, cracked up! I am a terrible person. 🤣

Edited September 16, 2022 by AntFTW

[30 Helens]

Angela didn’t just quit, she didn’t even start. She moved maybe two shovelfuls of dirt then decided the task wasn’t for her. So she went to sleep. That’s much, much different than Justine working her ass off and trying her best, but not being able to keep up.

This was such an annoying finale. First, there is an uneven number of people but they still want teams? Either do a sudden death elimination to get even numbers or bring the last eliminated person back. (I vote for the latter.)

Then, Desi gets royally screwed. And has to endure Enzo yelling “get away from me! Get away from me!” when she was desperately trying to help him. I would have screamed at him to get away when he was trying to apologize. There was absolutely no reason for them to not let her continue, given the uneven situation. I don’t think the partner of a quitter should have been eliminated, anyway. Just make them compete on their own in the next leg, if the numbers are still uneven.

Then there’s a lot of people vomiting. Didn’t care for that. (I kind of think they should have had to kept it down in order to continue, but then I guess everyone would have been eliminated too early, and we wouldn’t have had the opportunity to enjoy all the QUITTING that was yet to come.)

Then, pampered princess Angela QUITS. And then whines about being eliminated for quitting. I had been rooting for her, but good riddance. (I had been rooting more for Alyssa, and wish she had won that elimination.)

Then, Tyson QUITS because he can’t be number one. (I absolutely believe that’s why he gave up. After all his bragging about how much he can endure, a puzzle takes him out? No. It was his own ego, and nothing else.)

Then everyone else QUITS. And Crazy Eyes Sarah wins. And fuck this show for making me respect Sarah.

I’m happy for Danny, though. At least one good thing happened this finale. That’s the only thing, though.

The Challenge: Quitters Edition. What a disappointment.

[luckyroll3]

2 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

Then, Tyson QUITS because he can’t be number one. (I absolutely believe that’s why he gave up. After all his bragging about how much he can endure, a puzzle takes him out? No. It was his own ego, and nothing else.)

Oh, this is absolutely the reason why he quits. When Danny shows up to the checkpoint and starts working on the Soduku, Tyson says something to the effect of, "This is tough, huh?", because he assumes that Danny's having as much as trouble with it as he is. But shortly after that comment, Danny asks for a check and Tyson is shocked. Now all of a sudden, he's annoyed that he didn't know he had to do all these damn puzzles. They all claimed they studied The Challenge OG before they came on the show, yet missed some key lessons....

[DEL901]

34 minutes ago, luckyroll3 said:

Oh, this is absolutely the reason why he quits. When Danny shows up to the checkpoint and starts working on the Soduku, Tyson says something to the effect of, "This is tough, huh?", because he assumes that Danny's having as much as trouble with it as he is. But shortly after that comment, Danny asks for a check and Tyson is shocked. Now all of a sudden, he's annoyed that he didn't know he had to do all these damn puzzles. They all claimed they studied The Challenge OG before they came on the show, yet missed some key lessons....

LOL.  It reminded me of last season on the Challenge when they were moving those big logs around to solve the puzzle and had no idea…them CT and he team run up and he exclaims, “I’ve got a kid.  I know this puzzle” and they were done in minutes. 

[AntFTW]

39 minutes ago, luckyroll3 said:

Oh, this is absolutely the reason why he quits. When Danny shows up to the checkpoint and starts working on the Soduku, Tyson says something to the effect of, "This is tough, huh?", because he assumes that Danny's having as much as trouble with it as he is. But shortly after that comment, Danny asks for a check and Tyson is shocked. Now all of a sudden, he's annoyed that he didn't know he had to do all these damn puzzles. They all claimed they studied The Challenge OG before they came on the show, yet missed some key lessons...

2 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

LOL.  It reminded me of last season on the Challenge when they were moving those big logs around to solve the puzzle and had no idea…them CT and he team run up and he exclaims, “I’ve got a kid.  I know this puzzle” and they were done in minutes. 

That’s why I think Tyson is being a baby.

He’s creating his own subjective picture wherein he’s a whiny little victim.

He’s making excuses for why he quit. He’s making excuses for why Angela quit.

He’s trying to create this completely unfair picture because he didn’t know how to do a sudoku puzzle and producers wouldn’t tell him how to do it or didnt give him specific enough instructions, and he didn’t get to time out and move on because he didn’t know how to do a sudoku. Apparently, production telling him to “figure out the pattern” wasn’t enough instruction and is somehow “unfair.”

Sure, producers can make some arbitrary and inherently unfair rules but I, in no way, believe the reason for Tyson’s loss and his quitting is because he was treated unfairly.

[peachmangosteen]

I completely agree that a lot of what Tyson is saying is based on sour grapes but I still believe Production makes shit up as they go along and doesn't make the rules clear. That's certainly how it is on The Challenge proper.

[Madding crowd]

If I had never done Sudoku in my life and was just told to make a pattern I wouldn’t know what that meant. Jigsaw and slide puzzles are self explanatory but Sudoku really isn’t. I feel that when you most of the contestants quit or are disqualified, you haven’t done a good job of setting up the challenge and/or picking the right people to do it.

[seacliffsal]

Whether some of the contestants quit or whined, I think they were short-sighted in that why would CBS take another chance on them on any reality show?  Quitters have a big impact on the various shows as production is set for so many episodes and they need so many contestants.  I understand it was really cold and conditions were rough, but if they could have just waited it out I think they would have a better chance for more appearances.  Oh, and how nice to be in a financial situation in which one could just quit and walk away from $18,000 because they didn't win the big prize and it wasn't worth it to endure for a bit longer for how every much was in their personal account.

Ben and Desi are the only ones I feel for as their technicality of "not finishing" was out of their hands and I think they should have received some money.

Edited September 16, 2022 by seacliffsal
because I think Ben and Desi should get some money

[AntFTW]

1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

If I had never done Sudoku in my life and was just told to make a pattern I wouldn’t know what that meant. Jigsaw and slide puzzles are self explanatory but Sudoku really isn’t. I feel that when you most of the contestants quit or are disqualified, you haven’t done a good job of setting up the challenge and/or picking the right people to do it.

But IMO, that’s the game. If you don’t know how to do a puzzle, you are shit outta luck. You will generally not get any help and will eventually be timed out after a while.

On the original show, people eventually time out in checkpoint puzzles when they can’t figure it out. Sarah didn’t know how to do the puzzle. From the looks of it, she got no help.

I’m not convinced that Tyson spent such a long time at this sudoku puzzle that it warranted him being timed out.

Tyson said Dom and Justine also didn’t know how to do a Sudoku puzzle. On the original show, if you can’t figure out the puzzle or the math, they will eventually time them out and they can move on.

Tyson’s complaint seems to be that he didn’t get timed out on the Sudoku because he was stuck on how to figure it out and got no direction. I’m not sure how it would be fair for Danny, who figured it out, if he received the same amount of instruction as Tyson. I don’t know how long Tyson spent at the Sudoku puzzle but for now, I’m not convinced he stayed there long enough to be timed out.

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

I completely agree that a lot of what Tyson is saying is based on sour grapes but I still believe Production makes shit up as they go along and doesn't make the rules clear. That's certainly how it is on The Challenge proper.

I agree. Especially, on the MTV show, they will give reasons to call bullshit all day long. Based on Tyson’s description of the events, there are points where I would agree that it is unfair. They should have told them how long they needed to spend at a puzzle to be timed out, and I'm assuming didn't tell them.

I just don’t those unfair things are the reasons he ultimately lost and/or quit.

Edited September 16, 2022 by AntFTW

[KeithJ]

13 hours ago, AntFTW said:

Tyson, on his podcast, says production tells Angela that she has to move 2/3 of the dirt since it's only her.

Tyson also says that after a while, production decided to end the checkpoint because it was clear that no one other than Dom and Sarah were going to finish. Therefore, production and Dom and Sarah apparently agree that the end of the dirt digging checkpoint is the point where Dom and Sarah finishes the checkpoint. After Dom and Sarah, everyone is placed according to their progress. Nobody other Dom and Sarah got to finish that checkpoint and they timed everyone else out and 2nd place and 3rd place, and so on, took their places according to their progress. Apparently, Angela quit before they got to that point.

It still doesn't matter that nobody finished the checkpoint and they just ranked the teams based on how much dirt they had moved.  It was unfair from the very beginning.  Let's say, for example, each dirt pile had 100 pounds of dirt on it for each team.  That would mean that each team member would have to move 50 pounds of dirt.  But for Angela, a single player, her pile was 67 pounds and she had to move it herself.  That is not fair.

[AntFTW]

On 9/16/2022 at 11:17 AM, KeithJ said:

It still doesn't matter that nobody finished the checkpoint and they just ranked the teams based on how much dirt they had moved.  It was unfair from the very beginning.  Let's say, for example, each dirt pile had 100 pounds of dirt on it for each team.  That would mean that each team member would have to move 50 pounds of dirt.  But for Angela, a single player, her pile was 67 pounds and she had to move it herself.  That is not fair.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I completely acknowledge that is unfair. She should have been required to only move half the dirt as the paired teams.

It's also unfair that she quits her solo leg before the checkpoint ended and the other women didn't. How do you resolve that?

Edited September 17, 2022 by AntFTW

[KeithJ]

7 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

I'm not disagreeing with you. I completely acknowledge that is unfair. She would have been required to only move half the dirt as the paired teams.

It's also unfair that she quits her solo leg before the checkpoint ended and the other women didn't. How do you resolve that?

Exactly how the show resolved it, she was eliminated.

[AntFTW]

2 minutes ago, KeithJ said:

Exactly how the show resolved it, she was eliminated.

Then we're on the same page.

That's all I've been saying. Angela's DQ was justified. Angela being eliminated was not unfair.

[Caudex]

Glove-gate: Probably all of them were wearing gloves at some point in the episode, and I think they might've even had different kind of gloves for different tasks. Tyson was wearing gloves in the shoveling challenge, and I have no idea why he was freezing his fingers off in the sudoku challenge. I'm pretty good with cold weather, but my fingers are not and I'm not sure I'd want to risk possibly permanent damage for 20K. (My fingers are cold while I'm typing this.)

Angela-gate: I didn't think she'd be disqualified because I kind of understood her reasoning. When there were two people, one of them could sleep all night, right? Because the rule said that "one of you may rest while your partner works". But was Angela not allowed to sleep at all before finishing the dirt pile? What if she had said that she was going to take a nap, but had accidentally slept through the night? ;) From the timestamps it seemed that she quit, err, I mean started napping after 15-20 minutes.

Drowning-gate: I'm no fan of Enzo's, but he was in a serious panic. To me that situation showed how you should not get close to someone who thinks they're drowning, unless you really know what you're doing. If they hadn't had lifejackets it could've been dangerous for both of them had Desi tried to help him.

I got caught up in the moment and thought it was quite touching how Sarah kept going even tho she thought she had come last. Damn you, show.

[Libby]

I agree with everyone, Tyson lost. Danny was better than him and beat him fair and square. Danny dominated the entire final, not just that particular leg. Tyson quit as soon as he realized that he wasn't going to take first. It was very poor sportsmanship.

The women's side, however is more gray. It was inherently unfair as soon as they had a woman run a leg alone since some legs were easier to run alone than others. The only fair thing to do was to eliminate teams altogether, or bring in a fifth male and have all teams. I will never be convinced that Sarah won fair and square. It wasn't her fault, it was productions. It didn't matter what woman won. Because the competition was unfair from the beginning, any win on the women's side would be questionable.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Libby

[AntFTW]

5 hours ago, Caudex said:

Glove-gate: Probably all of them were wearing gloves at some point in the episode, and I think they might've even had different kind of gloves for different tasks. Tyson was wearing gloves in the shoveling challenge, and I have no idea why he was freezing his fingers off in the sudoku challenge. I'm pretty good with cold weather, but my fingers are not and I'm not sure I'd want to risk possibly permanent damage for 20K. (My fingers are cold while I'm typing this.)

Angela-gate: I didn't think she'd be disqualified because I kind of understood her reasoning. When there were two people, one of them could sleep all night, right? Because the rule said that "one of you may rest while your partner works". But was Angela not allowed to sleep at all before finishing the dirt pile? What if she had said that she was going to take a nap, but had accidentally slept through the night? ;) From the timestamps it seemed that she quit, err, I mean started napping after 15-20 minutes.

Drowning-gate: I'm no fan of Enzo's, but he was in a serious panic. To me that situation showed how you should not get close to someone who thinks they're drowning, unless you really know what you're doing. If they hadn't had lifejackets it could've been dangerous for both of them had Desi tried to help him.

I got caught up in the moment and thought it was quite touching how Sarah kept going even tho she thought she had come last. Damn you, show.

It seems there also a boot-gate 🤣

Where TJ gets everyone out of the tent and gathers them up at the after the overnight portion, when they are wrapping up and moving on, you can you see a couple of people carrying boots. Those boots were for when they encountered the rain and snow. It seems that everyone had boots except for Danny because they couldn't find Danny's size. Therefore, he completed the final in his regular training shoes.

5 hours ago, Caudex said:

Angela-gate: I didn't think she'd be disqualified because I kind of understood her reasoning. When there were two people, one of them could sleep all night, right? Because the rule said that "one of you may rest while your partner works". But was Angela not allowed to sleep at all before finishing the dirt pile? What if she had said that she was going to take a nap, but had accidentally slept through the night? ;) From the timestamps it seemed that she quit, err, I mean started napping after 15-20 minutes.

I don't know but that is a good question. I thought about that as well. Was she allowed to move dirt and then rest for a little bit and come back to moving dirt? That's a good question.

Edited September 16, 2022 by AntFTW

[AntFTW]

3 hours ago, Libby said:

The women's side, however is more gray. It was inherently unfair as soon as they had a woman run a leg alone since some legs were easier to run alone than others. The only fair thing to do was to eliminate teams altogether, or bring in a fifth male and have all teams.

I agree. I think once Ben was medically DQed, they should have eliminated teams and have everyone compete as individuals.

I do think about how much notice production had of Ben's injury to readjust. All of these games, puzzles and props have to be made. They clearly prepared for a paired final. For the team legs, they only had enough puzzles for 5 teams, rather than 10 individuals.

I feel like they could have figured something out because it was inherently unfair for the women. For one leg, they have to do the job of two people by themselves.

Edited September 16, 2022 by AntFTW

[meep.meep]

2 hours ago, Caudex said:

Glove-gate: Probably all of them were wearing gloves at some point in the episode, and I think they might've even had different kind of gloves for different tasks. Tyson was wearing gloves in the shoveling challenge, and I have no idea why he was freezing his fingers off in the sudoku challenge. I'm pretty good with cold weather, but my fingers are not and I'm not sure I'd want to risk possibly permanent damage for 20K. (My fingers are cold while I'm typing this.)

.....

Drowning-gate: I'm no fan of Enzo's, but he was in a serious panic. To me that situation showed how you should not get close to someone who thinks they're drowning, unless you really know what you're doing. If they hadn't had lifejackets it could've been dangerous for both of them had Desi tried to help him.

I think they took off the gloves with the sudoku because the pieces of paper with the numbers were sticking together in the cold and wet.  (Survivor would have had a bowl of wooden numbered pieces because the test runs would have identified that problem.)

Having been trained as a life guard, the phrase "Reach Throw Row Go" is drilled into your brain.  Going to help someone like Enzo who is totally panicked is the last thing you do.  Desi really got screwed by being paired with him.

I'm glad we finally got to meet Kiki!

[DEL901]

4 hours ago, Libby said:

I agree with everyone, Tyson lost. Danny was better than him and beat him fair and square. Danny dominated the entire final, not just that particular leg. Tyson quit as soon as he realized that he wasn't going to take first. It was very poor sportsmanship.

Agree.  I think that after Danny aced the challenge and started running, Tyson eventually realized he couldn’t catch him and quit before he timed out, just in case there would be a time out, because if he timed out, he’d have to follow Danny up the mountain knowing it was likely he would lose.  Unlike Sarah who hated being last but who was determined to finish. 

The quote below is from US magazine. 
 

[aghst]

Guess the few thousand he had in his bank account wasn't worth it to him.

So if others finished, Danny and Sarah would have split less than $500k between them?

Guessing the people who made it to the Finals got paid a few thousand for lasting the whole season up to the Final.

So finishing the Final for a few thousand probably wasn't enough of an incentive, especially in that miserable weather.

[DEL901]

22 minutes ago, aghst said:

Guess the few thousand he had in his bank account wasn't worth it to him.

So if others finished, Danny and Sarah would have split less than $500k between them?

Guessing the people who made it to the Finals got paid a few thousand for lasting the whole season up to the Final.

So finishing the Final for a few thousand probably wasn't enough of an incentive, especially in that miserable weather.

In another interview I can’t find the link to, Tyson was pissed that the $500,000 would be split between the two winners and reduced by the money banked by any other finishers.  He understood that the full prize went to one winner….clearly not a Challenge fan.  

[Jobiska]

Agree that Angela should have been DQed, but her having 2/3 the dirt instead of 1/2 the dirt probably did a number on her mentally.  So that factor and the "this puzzle times out, this puzzle doesn't" arbitrariness are annoying.  

Pleased that Danny won; Zoe is adorable (Kiki is the drinking challenge, Zoe is the chaser?); Sarah deserved the win and she looks lovely when she smiles broadly like when she won, as opposed to making faces behind Alyssa's back or looking so sour as she snots about A and A in talking heads.

So very tired of barfing scenes.  At least they didn't have the somewhat condescending "the native cultures here consider this worm a delicacy" angle.  Though speaking of quitting and Argentina, this reminds me of Boston Rob on Amazing Race convincing all the other people to not eat the large amount of beef so he wouldn't be the only one penalized...at least on TAR the rules are clear!

So basically all I have to hold on to other than the nice win for Danny is the image of TJ reeling after he peeked into the onion fart tent.