S02.E10: Someone's Little Sister

[Daine]

"Robert, too. He jerks everyone around and it's all about him. First it was his money he was protecting. Now it's his poor privileged wounded heart. Is he kidding? Even Ana finally knew better."

~~~

Lol, what? Robert has made it pretty clear that he felt pressured by his family to 'protect' his money. We already know he left Callie's mom because he was pressured to do so, it's totally in-character. And he dropped that point of contention in this episode as it became clear he wanted a continuing relationship with Callie, in whatever way he could manage (college fund, etc.).

And he's not protecting his 'privileged heart'. He JUST FOUND OUT he had a daughter with his old, dead flame. As Rita says, Callie's easy to love. He clearly loves and dotes on Sophia - why is it unreasonable that he would want a relationship with her, and that signing ABANDONMENT papers would be hard for him? Doubly hard now that he has heard her claim him as her father in front of her family and all his friends?

And finally, either you think bio parents should be responsible for their kids, or you don't. Why are you bringing Ana into this? Ana failed her children over and over again, and now wants to try to repair their relationship. You say this is a good thing (I agree). Robert didn't even know Callie existed, and wants to create a relationship with her, and you say this is a bad thing? Make up your mind.

I understand why Callie lost her shit - she was promised one thing, and had it yanked away (again!). But Robert has done what he clearly considers to be one of the hardest things he's done in his life, and is being asked to do it again, after hearing that heartrending speech? Give him a break, people.

[imustbecrazy]

The Rohrsach Test that is Brandon/Callie continues...  Did we ever think it would go away?

 

Personally, I have always liked following the evolution of their relationship since the first episode - and I don't think it really needs to be labelled at this point. One of the more significant insights Callie shared in this episode (pointed out by someone else) was when Sophia pointed out how Callie's "eyes light up" when she talks about him, and Callie responded "of course, he's my best friend..."  I thought that was pretty huge, and probably defines their connection asmuch as anything at this point.  I'm content letting them figure it out.

 

It made sense that with Callie's world crashing down - again - she would reach out to him.  I too am optimistic that the writers are not going to let this go without pointing out the dangers that impulsive act brings.  Plus, we don't yet know how Brandon will respond since the credits rolled in the middle their kiss - for all we know, he might just pull away and there is a role reversal where Callie is the one pushing a bit more.

 

One thing that this show always brings is lots of messy "gray" area, and letting the viewers come up with their own judgments about what is right and wrong.  I think there is much to mine here with the both the Quinn's storyline (repercussions of Robert and Sophia's actions in hurting Callie, the dilemma that Robert is facing, the consequences of whataver actions Sophia takes behind that bathroom door) as well as with how Stef and Lena handle the Jude and Connor situation (which I think will be handled with considerable care and thoughtfulness considering the point-of-view of the show's creators).

 

For example, it didn't occur to me until afterwards how much of a problem having Jude and Connor be unchaperoned during that trip could be - I mean, we wouldn't be OK with boys and girls of that age sharing a tent, right?  If Connor and Jude are discovering feelings for each other, how DO Stef and Lena deal with that?  Do the rules have to change?  Lena is responding with justified anger to the actions of Connor's dad, but she is failing to see that she has a blind spot here that she has to own up to as an educator and a parent.

[truthaboutluv]

This is so true. It really is our fault that we expected this ABC Family show to be more than a teen pairing. Although, in the past, ABC Family had some amazing shows that didn't turn into what all their currents shows do. I miss Greek. I miss The Middleman. Hell, I miss Kyle XY.

 

 

Never saw The Middleman and saw two episodes of Kyle XY and it was the most boring thing ever to me so I can't speak on those two shows. That said, I loved Greek but that show was heavily focused on the Cappie/Casey relationship and back and forth of that mess. While I don't think the poster's intent was to somehow blame the viewers and I somewhat disagree that one should have just expected it since it is an ABCFamily show, I will say that it should have been obvious after the pilot. As I noted before, the Callie/Brandon hinting was not even subtle in the pilot and I do think that many should have realized that if the writers were going to be that obvious THAT soon, then the reality was that the storyline would likely be a major focus of the show. 

 

Nor should they with their history. I don't think that means at all that the very familial bonds Callie has developed with the Moms and Mariana are undercut and she's relegated to Brandon's love interest in their eyes. And I definitely don't think this one story and the path its taken mean that this isn't show that clearly deeply values non-biological familial bonds.

 

 

This makes me think of if the show had gone with an alternate scenario where Brandon met and fell in love with Callie and later found out about her situation and then convinced his parents to let her stay with them because she had no one. I wonder if there would be the same sense of "ew it's creepy" and more importantly, "she needs a family not a boyfriend." Because that is something I've noticed a lot in some of the outrage about the Brandon/Callie situation - the often-repeated "she needs a family..."

 

And to me, she does have a family, it's just not a legal binding document but there seems to be the sense that without that then it's not real. And for me, I feel like that is missing one of the points the show is trying to show. That family is not about blood and it's not about a signature on a piece of paper either - it's about love. At least that's how I've viewed the show. It's not like Callie's not getting adopted will suddenly mean that Stef and Lena will stop caring about her and stop loving her. And I actually think that's what Callie herself will slowly come to realize because I think part of why she is so obsessed with being adopted is because there is a part of her that probably is still afraid that if she isn't, one day Lena and Stef will just get rid of her and/or stop loving her and I don't see that ever happening. 

 

As I've said, I don't ship Brandon/Callie but I just frankly don't have all the outrage that some have about it. Because as I said, I don't view Callie's being legally adopted as the be all and end all of her having a family and being loved. That's not how I view the show and their message about family. I will admit that the show adding Jude in the equation is what really complicates thing, much as I like sweet little Jude. Once they added Jude who is her brother and had him be adopted by The Fosters it made the whole thing that much murkier but I just can't be all up in arms about Brandon/Callie.

 

Frankly, I place some of the blame of the Brandon/Callie situation on Lena and Stef because I honestly feel like they never really dealt with that situation. It was pretty much, "this is how it's going to be, this can't happen" and just sweeping the situation under the rug. It is ridiculous in my opinion that two sixteen year olds were or are expected to be so mature that simply saying "well she's getting adopted, it can't happen, get over it" was enough to deal with the situation. The Mariana/Jesus or whatever situations were irrelevant. You cannot compare two kids coming into the household when Brandon was 8 to having a teenage girl come in when he is 16. That is why I doubt they allow many foster homes with teenage kids to have foster kids of the opposite sex. 

Edited August 19, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[possibilities]

I knew there'd be teen drama on ABCFamily, but I disagree that it had to offend me or that the writers have no choice whatsoever about what kind to serve.

 

There's nothing comparable to Brandon-Callie on Switched at Birth-- there's stuff on that show bothers me, but there's not one recurring plot that by itself undermines everything else that's good about the show.

 

Hell, I watch the dreaded Degrassi, so I know how to pick my way around some stupid adolescent romances.

 

There is something different about the Callie-Brandon smoochies that goes way beyond the usual teen whatevers. But what I like and respect about the show is that so far it actually has criticized the behavior, and labeled it as destructive and unhealthy. If they want to pander to a perceived base audience with occasional lapses into this business, I will continue to regard it like Mike's occasional lapses into alcohol abuse. I don't have to think everything the characters do is right, I just have to not feel like the entire universe of the show is trying to sell me on the notion that it is. So far, it's stayed just short of making the show intolerable.

 

I'm not even arguing at this point that it's unrealistic. Looking through the lens of Callie's tendency to give up, and Brandon's tendency to deny reality, it's a perfect match. But only in the most mutually destructive way. In this episode, she went for the kiss when she was convinced she couldn't have what she really wanted, and after declaring she would never be happy. That's not an epic love, that's an epic consolation prize.

 

So I can live with it. It's parallel to other girls from GU who cut themselves, did drugs, or burned the house down. I didn't swoon over their behavior, either. Sexing it up with Brandon is the one reckless thing that Callie can potentially do herself, to once and for all destroy any hopes of being adopted. It's like Lena quitting her job. Callie didn't think she could fight Robert. So she torpedoed the situation so the loss was under her control. But she explicitly stated it was a desperate act, not what she really needed.

[alexvillage]

 

Because as I said, I don't view Callie's being legally adopted as the be all and end all of her having a family and being loved. That's not how I view the show and their message about family.

I agree that OUR view is this one and being outsiders we would probably tell a teenager in the same situation as Callie is to stop whining and go on living. But the way the show is dealing with this is what I like about it. It is realistic. I absolutely believe that a teen with a very troubled past like Callie has and with a loving foster home that go to extremes to adopt her, after having adopted the person she most loves in the world, would be eager to be adopted as well. I see Callie as the one who always had to fight to survive and protect her brother and now she is falling apart and willing to let someone take care of her. and not having the whole situation ever resolves is breaking her. I still think the "moms" and all the cuddles are a little too much, but I buy her desperation/frustration

[truthaboutluv]

I agree that OUR view is this one and being outsiders we would probably tell a teenager in the same situation as Callie is to stop whining and go on living.

 

 

Actually no, I would never say that to someone who's been through what Callie's been through, "oh quit your whinging". That was not my point and I noted that I do think part of Callie's desperation to be completely and legally adopted is a fear that if she's not, one day Lena and Stef may just get tired of her and send her away and I totally get that with what's she been through. My point about the legal adoption not being the one and true measure of family is my disagreement with the sentiments that Callie and Brandon is especially awful because Callie needs a family as if she doesn't get legally adopted suddenly she's not family to The Fosters anymore. And I don't see it that way at all and feel like that's not the message the writers and show has been sending either.

[alexvillage]

I am sorry, I didn't word it right. I shouldn't have said that we would say that to a teen. 

So, reseting. I do think that the show actually does a good job in the way they have Callie react to the convoluted adoption story. She is a teen and she thinks like a teen, which means, sometimes she does not think, just reacts. And I am not factoring Brandon on this at all. I think the Brandon affair is a side show, a boring one in my opinion.

[smrou]

I thought Teri Polo did a great job reacting in the background to the Ana-Mariana-Jesus interactions.

Teri Polo was fantastic in that scene (as someone else said, she really is the MVP of this season) and I liked that whole scene very much.  It even gave me a moment of giving a damn about Jesus!  Yay!

 

 I miss The Middleman. Hell, I miss Kyle XY.

Oh Middleman.  So good.  So very good.  I miss it, too.

 

I'm not even arguing at this point that it's unrealistic. Looking through the lens of Callie's tendency to give up, and Brandon's tendency to deny reality, it's a perfect match. But only in the most mutually destructive way. In this episode, she went for the kiss when she was convinced she couldn't have what she really wanted, and after declaring she would never be happy. That's not an epic love, that's an epic consolation prize.

I agree with this completely.  It makes perfect sense that Callie, feeling desperate and angry and hopeless, would reach for someone she knows wants her.  And Brandon...well, you mentioned before he seems to have no impulse control and I have to agree.  I'm kind of angry with him for going along with the kiss because he's the one who has the least to lose, but whatever.  So be it.  As long as this plays out as what it is, two kids making stupid decisions in an unhappy situation, I don't have a problem with it.  If I feel like the writing of the show is trying to push me toward actually being in favor of the pairing...that I won't be able to put up with.  

 

I've already said in past threads how a romantic pairing between Callie and Brandon means choosing something temporary (a teen romance) over something permanent (family) so I don't really need to repeat myself.  One thing I will add, though, is that even though Callie hasn't been adopted yet and even if she never gets adopted, Jude has been adopted and therefore the Adams-Fosters are already Callie's family.  Callie will never lose that family connection because Jude is the most important person in her life.  So messing around with that for the sake of a teen romance is just stupid for all involved.

Edited August 19, 2014 by smrou

[gesundheit]

I think (and this echoes some sentiments above) that the problem with the "will they or won't they make this legal" back-and-forth with the Callie adoption situation is that they seem to continue to present as "well, if they don't officially adopt her, then Brandon and Callie can happen." Not that it would mean she has no family, not that it would mean the Fosters don't love her anymore. But the fact of the matter is that, piece of paper or not, she is family. She is Brandon's foster sister. They share parent figures. I don't understand why a signature changes that. She does need a family more than she needs a boyfriend, and yes, she can have that family without a legal adoption. But I'm concerned that the show is trying to have it both ways -- this really is her family, but since her brother's not her legal brother (just her foster brother!) she can totally date him. Which is going to really disrupt the right kind of familial bonding in a major way.

 

On the other hand, "their song" is enough to make me dislike Brandon and Callie as a couple, foster siblings or not. Awful!

[GildedLily]

There is something different about the Callie-Brandon smoochies that goes way beyond the usual teen whatevers. But what I like and respect about the show is that so far it actually has criticized the behavior, and labeled it as destructive and unhealthy. If they want to pander to a perceived base audience with occasional lapses into this business, I will continue to regard it like Mike's occasional lapses into alcohol abuse.

So I can live with it. It's parallel to other girls from GU who cut themselves, did drugs, or burned the house down. I didn't swoon over their behavior, either. Sexing it up with Brandon is the one reckless thing that Callie can potentially do herself, to once and for all destroy any hopes of being adopted.bBut she explicitly stated it was a desperate act, not what she really needed.

I couldn't disagree more that the show paints or has ever painted Brandon and Callie as destructive or unhealthy. Complicated, messy, bad timing? Absolutely. But akin to drug or alcohol abuse? No I don't think so. Their issues are shown as external and massive and maybe even worth not pursuing their feelings over but I've never thought for one second the writers were trying to sell them as bad for each other or unhealthy in how they relate to each other. I fully believe the show (whether or not you or others feel this way) wants us to see their bond as beautiful and special and not going to die just because they have Wyatt or lou or whoever. And that this kiss was inevitable. If not for the failed adoption, it was going to happen some other day.

Did you watch the after show? Peter Paige, the creator and producer, said "this kiss was about months of repressing attraction and care and connection." And that there's no right answer here for Callie just an amazing family and a beautiful relationship. Those were his words as show runner, not mine, and it's his show. Nothing about self destructive choices or addictions or lapses or even poor impulsive judgment. So I respectfully think you're way off when you say the show is trying to portray a lapse or an addiction or a truly destructive relationship. It may be what you perceive and you're entitled to that but it's not at all what the people bringing us the show are selling. I think they absolutely want the audience to see that she gave up this big chance at love (whether or not teenage love usually lasts- this is TV land where it often does)  to be adopted, not that she its a matter of good vs bad behavior.

Edited August 20, 2014 by GildedLily

[CPP83]

I understand why Callie lost her shit - she was promised one thing, and had it yanked away (again!). But Robert has done what he clearly considers to be one of the hardest things he's done in his life, and is being asked to do it again, after hearing that heartrending speech? Give him a break, people.

 

 

 

I thought Kerr portrayed Robert's heartbreak amazingly well, he's just good at being the weepy bleeding heart, heh.

 

I view both Callie and Robert as being victims in this, he had given her up, and didn't want to, but he was trying to do what she wanted, apparently that's the sort of guy he is he does what people expect of him and want him to do, but Callie is his daughter, a daughter he obviously would have wanted if he'd known about her before.

 

I can't think of any thing more difficult than a parent who's already lost 16 years with their child, time stolen from them, and then be demanded that they just hand the child over to someone else before they can barely take a breath and process that information or deal with their feelings. If Robert had remained cold and distant, that'd be another story, but he just wanted to have some sort of connection with Callie, and in doing so he's fallen head over heels for his kid, what good dad wouldn't?

 

Sure Stef and Lena love and want Callie but Robert isn't the bad guy or a bad dad, he wasn't allowed to be Callie's father and to me that makes all the difference in the world in understanding where he's coming from and the pain he's going through.

 

He doesn't want to hurt Callie, and he knows her heart is set on being adopted, but his own heart, as a good father's would, is finding it near impossible to just let her go, as if he can't help but wonder if she would just give him a chance, give him the same opportunity to parent her and love her as the Fosters have couldn't she find a home with him too?

 

I know that he will sign again because Robert is just a supporting player and obviously she's meant to carry the last name "Foster", doubly so because Jude's already in the family, but Robert's struggle, to me, is not only realistic but it's genuine. And I think one day Callie might realize Robert's hesitation was a pretty big display of just how much he truly had come to love her.

 

I've said before Callie rarely impresses me as a character, the whole Brandon/Wyatt nonsense, her near constant bad decision making just to make things harder on herself, etc, but this part of her life's story actually works for me. While I have never bought her connection with the Fosters as foster/soon to be adopted parents, it all happened way too fast and superficially to me, but now that Robert has been thrown into the mix I feel it's more sincere a challenge, more believable a situation.

Edited August 19, 2014 by CPP83

[dohe]

I couldn't disagree more that the show paints or has ever painted Brandon and Callie as destructive or unhealthy. Complicated, messy, bad timing? Absolutely. But akin to drug or alcohol abuse? No I don't think so. Their issues are shown as external and massive and maybe even worth not pursuing their feelings over but I've never thought for one second the writers were trying to sell them as bad for each other or unhealthy in how they relate to each other. I fully believe the show (whether or not you or others feel this way) wants us to see their bond as beautiful and special and rare. And that this kiss was inevitable. If not for the failed adoption, it was going to happen some other day.

Did you watch the after show? Peter Paige, the creator and producer, said "this kiss was about months of repressing attraction and care and connection." And that there's no right answer here for Callie just an amazing family and a beautiful relationship. Those were his words as show runner, not mine, and it's his show. Nothing about self destructive choices or addictions or lapses or even poor impulsive judgment. So I respectfully think you're way off when you say the show is trying to portray a lapse or an addiction or a truly destructive relationship. It may be what you perceive and you're entitled to that but it's not at all what the people bringing us the show are selling.

I certainly am not going to watch an aftershow as a producer tries to rationalize this subplot.  It is a subplot that shows no respect for the audience and hijacks their own show.

 

BTW, the ratings declined last year as the series went on pushing the Brandon/Callie nonsense.  I have several friends who stopped watching this insulting plotline.  Check the ratings and you will see that a show that twice topped 2 million halfway through the season was down to it's three lowest rated episodes by the end of the first season.  A loss of about 40% of it's audience.  Why?  The # 1 reason on forums that people have given for leaving the show is this tiresome, worn out, chemistry free joke of a romance.   Of course there are some people who will, as they are with every teen girl/moody teen boy romance, be obsessed with it.  But the reality is they could have had that romantic character be played by just someone at the school.  When season 2 came back, the show got okay ratings.  The question is would fans stay around or would there be another massive decline.  The answer is they stayed around and the reason was clearly that the show was not shoving this bad storyline down our throats.  Ratings did not drop like last year.  People started writing on forums that they would give the show a second chance.  Then that shameful plotline again crops back up.   

Edited August 19, 2014 by dohe

[Orwell1984]

I'm not sure that the decreasing ratings can be solely related to the Brandon/Callie story line. It can take some time for a show to stabilize its ratings. It's not uncommon to see drops in its 1st season. In addition, some of the highest rated episodes in season 1 dealt with either their relationship or its fallout. Furthermore, i don't think that the ratings are sufficiently bad enough that the network would interfere in the show runner's vision.

[LisaM]

 

Furthermore, i don't think that the ratings are sufficiently bad enough that the network would interfere in the show runner's vision.

I'm actually curious whether it is the network which is pushing Brallie - not the showrunners regardless of their comments.

[GildedLily]

I certainly am not going to watch an aftershow as a producer tries to rationalize this subplot. It is a subplot that shows no respect for the audience and hijacks their own show.

BTW, the ratings declined last year as the series went on pushing the Brandon/Callie nonsense. I have several friends who stopped watching this insulting plotline. Check the ratings and you will see that a show that twice topped 2 million halfway through the season was down to it's three lowest rated episodes by the end of the first season. A loss of about 40% of it's audience. Why? The # 1 reason on forums that people have given for leaving the show is this tiresome, worn out, chemistry free joke of a romance. Of course there are some people who will, as they are with every teen girl/moody teen boy romance, be obsessed with it. But the reality is they could have had that romantic character be played by just someone at the school. When season 2 came back, the show got okay ratings. The question is would fans stay around or would there be another massive decline. The answer is they stayed around and the reason was clearly that the show was not shoving this bad storyline down our throats. Ratings did not drop like last year. People started writing on forums that they would give the show a second chance. Then that shameful plotline again crops back up.

I wasn't encouraging anyone to watch the Aftershow. I was responding to a point made that the show is truly trying to depict B/C as some addictive, unhealthy relationship when the showrunner himself was last night droning on about their beautiful love and their connection and season of repressed feelings.

You misrepresent the ratings thing a lot. The true freefall in ratings occurred after ep 16- basically immediately following "I need a family" and Callie telling him they would get over it. If you don't think a huge number of 12-18 year old fangirls (which FYI are the show's core audience as much as there are other significant groups that watch too)). tuned out until they saw on Facebook/Twitter/whatever that Brallie was back, I think you're refusing to see it. Note- I'm not saying that's the sole reason the ratings dropped. Did some people tune out because of the focus on them? I don't doubt that was the case. But the fact is the highest rated cluster of eps are I Do to Padre- the Brallie era. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Fosters_episodes#Season_1_.282013.E2.80.9314.29

I'm actually curious whether it is the network which is pushing Brallie - not the showrunners regardless of their comments.

I think the network is absolutely pushing them but there is no reason for the showrunners to lay it on as thick as they have unless they believed it. The feeling I get from Peter and Bradley is that Brallie is their baby as much as the Stef and Lena relationship is.

I've already said in past threads how a romantic pairing between Callie and Brandon means choosing something temporary (a teen romance) over something permanent (family) so I don't really need to repeat myself. One thing I will add, though, is that even though Callie hasn't been adopted yet and even if she never gets adopted, Jude has been adopted and therefore the Adams-Fosters are already Callie's family. Callie will never lose that family connection because Jude is the most important person in her life. So messing around with that for the sake of a teen romance is just stupid for all involved.

It's funny so many people point to Jude, the most accepting kid ever, as the reason this romance shouldn't be even if she's adopted. I think Jude is ultimately going to be the first one to accept them. He's in a way different place now than we he caught them in I Do- his own future is secure with his adoption, with Robert and the Moms, there's no chance Callie's going back to being a ward of the state, he's learning to live without her as his sole security in life. And Jude adores Callie. So I think if he sees that his sister has a chance to be happy with someone she loves, he's eventually going to be the one who tells her- it's okay, you'll always have family, be happy, you deserve it more than anyone.

And I actually think that's what Callie herself will slowly come to realize because I think part of why she is so obsessed with being adopted is because there is a part of her that probably is still afraid that if she isn't, one day Lena and Stef will just get rid of her and/or stop loving her and I don't see that ever happening.

As I've said, I don't ship Brandon/Callie but I just frankly don't have all the outrage that some have about it. Because as I said, I don't view Callie's being legally adopted as the be all and end all of her having a family and being loved. That's not how I view the show and their message about family.

Frankly, I place some of the blame of the Brandon/Callie situation on Lena and Stef because I honestly feel like they never really dealt with that situation. It was pretty much, "this is how it's going to be, this can't happen" and just sweeping the situation under the rug. It is ridiculous in my opinion that two sixteen year olds were or are expected to be so mature that simply saying "well she's getting adopted, it can't happen, get over it" was enough to deal with the situation.

Nothing to add except that I agree 1000%. I think 2B will be all about her realizing she doesn't need this adoption, she has her family in the Fosters and nothing, not Robert, not how she feels about Brandon and not a piece of paper, will change that. And acknowledging that she's in a very different place now than when S&L, feeling there were no other options, forced the adoption or Brandon choice. The clock is ticking to 18, she has a newfound biological family that wants to create a place for her, the chances of her being a ward of the state or in a group home are nil, Jude is secure, it's not as simple the Fosters or being all alone. If after all these months, she still views letting Brandon go as giving up so much and isn't remotely denying Sophia telling her that her eyes light up at the mention of him (I almost think saying he was her present best friend was more meaningful than acknowledging loving him in the past), then maybe it's time to reexamine that choice in light of how much has changed now that there's not such jeopardy and urgency to her situation. And maybe eventually Stef and Lena will reexamine it too.

That's just how I see it playing it out. I think the show will go with them as endgame-- but I think it will hard won and it definitely won't be full steam ahead on this romance when we resume. I think her place in the family won't ultimately be threatened by that despite the adoption not happening- they will remain her Moms in everyone's hearts and Mariana will continue to be her sister and Jesus will continue to be...there (has he ever really spoken to Callie?)). All of this will be preceded by a lot of drama and heartache and soul searching for everyone. But ultimately I think the showrunners' plan is that Brandon and Callie as a couple will just be another part of this unconventional family that embraces the idea that you can't choose who you end up loving. At least I think that's where they're headed or want to go. It's just a guess although it's obviously influenced by the fact that (i) I want them together and (ii) I want the Fosters to be her family and (iii) I don't think it's mutually exclusive.

I thought Kerr portrayed Robert's heartbreak amazingly well, he's just good at being the weepy bleeding heart, heh.

I view both Callie and Robert as being victims in this, he had given her up, and didn't want to, but he was trying to do what she wanted, apparently that's the sort of guy he is he does what people expect of him and want him to do, but Callie is his daughter, a daughter he obviously would have wanted if he'd known about her before.

I can't think of any thing more difficult than a parent who's already lost 16 years with their child, time stolen from them, and then be demanded that they just hand the child over to someone else before they can barely take a breath and process that information or deal with their feelings. If Robert had remained cold and distant, that'd be another story, but he just wanted to have some sort of connection with Callie, and in doing so he's fallen head over heels for his kid, what good dad wouldn't?

I felt as sorry for Robert as I did for Callie. Maybe more. This was a totally different situation than Donald. He was losing his right to parent a child he never knew if he signed and breaking the heart of Sophia and he was losing if he told her he wanted to maintain their legal relationship because he knew she would have the reaction she had. He had no good solution and I thought Kerr portrayed that so heartbreakingly beautifully.

I loved that Rita was the one to encourage her relationship with him since Rita gets a lot of credit for getting her back home with the Fosters. I thought that was a perfect way to show that this situation is not black and white at all. I honestly don't get how anyone can oversimplify it to Robert (or Sophia who's just a misguided a kid who did something that ultimately would have had zero legal effect but for her father's change of heart) is a villain standing in the way of her happiness. The story is so much more layered.

Edited August 20, 2014 by GildedLily

[mjgchick]

Jesus fuckin Christ. The writers are testing me. I get it, the actors have chemistry and their are fans who like them as a couple. If Callie didn't call Stef and Lena her moms maybe I wouldn't care, but the writers rather cater to the shippers than give Callie this one family. So now what, she's going to live with these people and learn to forget about Jesus and Mariana as her siblings?

 

To pile up the drama they have Lena lose her damn mind and quit her job.

[smrou]

It's funny so many people point to Jude, the most accepting kid ever, as the reason this romance shouldn't be even if she's adopted. I think Jude is ultimately going to be the first one to accept them. 

I didn't point to Jude because I think he's the least likely to accept them as a couple.  I pointed to Jude because even in the absence of Callie's adoption he makes Callie a part of that family.  Forever.  And the reason I think it's stupid for Callie and Brandon to get involved, given that they are both part of the Fosters family, is because a romantic entanglement--particularly among teenagers--is destined to add complication and conflict to that family.  A family that hardly needs more shit to deal with than it already has.

 

Also, Jude is a remarkably open-minded and accepting kid, but I think he's also very protective of his new family and its dynamic, so I'm not so sure he'd be particularly open to introducing this complication.  Though Callie could probably convince him to be.

 

At any rate, I don't know what direction things will go when the season resumes.  Personally, my feeling is that Callie (and also Brandon, but particularly Callie) is in no position to be starting a romantic relationship of any kind.  I thought it was a bad idea from the beginning for her to be with Wyatt, too, even though I think he was a really good guy who, under other circumstances, could have been a good match for her.  Callie's had a life full of upheaval and things still really haven't settled down for her.  She has so many new relationships that she's dealing with already.  Frankly I'd love for there to be a significant stretch of time during which Callie puts romance off the table for her own well-being.

Edited August 20, 2014 by smrou

[dohe]

GildedLily, I highly doubt viewers tuned out because Brandon and Callie broke up.  Part of a reason people watch shows is for moments between characters they hope will get together or, in this case, get back together.  Now people turning off the show because it sells itself short.  That is a whole other case.

 

By the way, am I just deluded or am I just hung up on the show needing to focus on the parents because they are a lesbian couple?  Since apparently, to you, those are the primary reasons people could not understand this, as you see it, life changing love story.  Personally I always thought it was because me, a gay man, enjoyed the dynamic of a family brought together through the foster system and adoption.  I did not know wishing to see how this family formed, how they grew, and spending more time on their familial relationships made me so ridiculous.    

Edited August 20, 2014 by dohe

[GildedLily]

GildedLily, I highly doubt viewers tuned out because Brandon and Callie broke up. Part of a reason people watch shows is for moments between characters they hope will get together or, in this case, get back together. Now people turning off the show because it sells itself short. That is a whole other case.

By the way, am I just deluded or am I just hung up on the show needing to focus on the parents because they are a lesbian couple? Since apparently, to you, those are the primary reasons people could not understand this, as you see it, life changing love story. Personally I always thought it was because me, a gay man, enjoyed the dynamic of a family brought together through the foster system and adoption. I did not know wishing to see how this family formed, how they grew, and spending more time on their familial relationships made me so ridiculous.

I get your first point about part of the fun of shipping is waiting for your couple to get back together. I hung on with Dawson's Creek and a bunch of other shows through some miserable seasons for that. But when a big part of your base is 12-17 year old girls who can in this day and age check in on youtube/social media/1000 other outlets without actually watching the show and impacting the ratings to see if their couple got back together, then yes I do think a big chunk of them might tune out from actual traditional live viewing on Monday night if their couple wasn't together, thereby impacting the ratings. Again, the numbers when they were together was at their highest and as soon as they ended them...ratings crashed post 1x16 (they broke up in 1x15; 1x16 was the "How Long Do we Have to Feel This Way?" convo) . more to it than that but discounting it entirely is I think inaccurate.

I don't fully understand your second point but I will say I don't think it's at all ridiculous you enjoy the familial relationships, particularly S&L as the head of this family. I think it's great. My first job out of law school was with the state removing children from horrific situations and asking a judge to terminate parental rights where necessary- I'm reminded of that every week I watch this show and I grasp how much foster care and adoption stories need to and should be told. I didn't mean to come off as antagonistic and I certainly don't think any of your or anyone's non Brallie reasons for watching the show are ridiculous nor did I say that anywhere in  any of my posts. Nor did I question why people don't see the appeal of Brallie- I simply explained that I did and why. 

I have always accepted the show as part ABCF teen soap  as well as part groundbreaking family drama and was utterly enchanted by Brallie's chemistry from ep 1. Part of why I find them so compelling is the hugely complicated family dynamics that make it a way more interesting story than your run of the mill teen couple- i.e. if Callie was in a huge story with some guy at school. I don't think I'm ridiculous or a lesser fan for enjoying them and hoping the show will continue to play them just as I don't begrudge anyone the right to ship Jesus/Haley or whatever else I may deem tepid and uninteresting. I love the show as a whole--hands down my favorite scene last night was not the kiss with my couple- it was Jesus/Ana and then Mariana/Lena and then Robert/Callie but I think to expect the show to entirely abandon a popular teen pairing on a network that's main audience is young girls is...perhaps entirely unrealistic.

Edited August 20, 2014 by GildedLily

[SparedTurkey]

After rewatching the episode, I noticed something that probably wasnt intentional by the writers. I remember when the whole Timothy debacle was going on and there was much discussion about Stef/Lena's overreaction to that. While I did think it was ridiculous to get pregnant without it and there was a slight overreaction, the fear of someone else being able to parent their kids was real, and somewhat true to life for many lesbian/gay parents.

 

Then, in the last two episodes, the fathers/father figures of some of their children have deliberately ignored Stef/Lena's wishes/directives regarding their children - Mike last week when attempting to get Mariana to talk to Ana and Robert this week when he wanted to talk to Callie. Mike knew Stef and Lena had flat out refused to let the twins see Ana. Robert also mentioned that he had been asked (and agreed) to not contact Callie without mentioning it to Stef/Lena first. And yet they both see fit to ignore Stef/Lena's rules when it doesn't suit them. I get that it probably wasn't intentional by the writers, but it leaves a nasty image that the primary parents are getting overruled by the fathers in their children's lives - and makes Stef/Lena's Timothy freakout almost justified in retrospect.

[maraleia]

Hey everyone! While everyone's opinion is welcome here just remember that attacking other posters for their point of view is not allowed. Also, if you are using facts to back up your statement please provide a link to that information.

I know there are fans of the Braille pairing and others who loathe it but let's keep the discussion levelheaded and if you have an issue with the direction of the show send the showrunners a message letting them know. Calling out other posters for how they feel won't achieve anything.

[LisaM]

One other little point which I just remembered: when Robert came to the burger joint, he specifically said to Callie that he knew that "her moms" didn't want him to see/talk to her without clearing it first. I recall being struck by the fact that Robert referred to Stef and Lena as Callie's moms.

[CPP83]

Robert also mentioned that he had been asked (and agreed) to not contact Callie without mentioning it to Stef/Lena first

 

 

 

The reason Robert went to see Callie was because he wanted to tell her that he'd signed the papers to allow the adoption to finally go ahead, considering he just handed Lena and Stef his daughter without as much as a legal paper drawn up to ensure his own rights remained intact some how, I think he earned the right to break that rule just once considering.

 

As for Mike and Ana, Mike didn't spring Ana on Marianna, they ran into her and Mike tried to see if Marianna would give Ana a chance to just talk to her, it wasn't as if he intentionally set up a secret meeting and sprung it on the kids.

[Scarlett45]

I have to say the strongest part of the episode for me was the convo between Marianna and Lena. I really felt so badly for Marianna in that moment, as she had gone through so much for her birth mom, things that went against her own character (like stealing) and I felt so badly for Lena as well.

No it's not fair that people who would make good parents often have a hard time (or never have the chance) but assholes can mistreat and neglect their children and pop them out like flies. The quote "you carry a baby for nine months, but you carry your child in your heart for a life time" made me tear up. I wanted to go hug my Mommy.

[SparedTurkey]

The reason Robert went to see Callie was because he wanted to tell her that he'd signed the papers to allow the adoption to finally go ahead

I know why he did it, and yes on the whole it was a nice thing to do and tell her personally etc. But he isn't her parent and he didn't follow her parents' rules. Stef/Lena didn't bar Robert from seeing her at all - all they wanted was a heads up. And really, would Stef/Lena have said no? Unlikely. It would have been a quick phone call showing some respect for all parties. And particularly as he had (as far as he knew, thanks Sofia) given up his parental rights to Stef/Lena, it really wasn't his call anymore. I'm not saying it is a major crime, but I'm saying that there seems to be a pattern on the show where the fathers disregard the kid's actual parent's wishes.

 

As for Mike, no he didn't intentionally ambush Mariana (and I didn't say he did). However, he did flat out say that he thought Stef/Lena were wrong. And my issue is, as you say, that once Mariana had seen them, he attempted to have them talk to each other. Without Stef/Lena's consent. And that is again, a different father figure (which I guess he is for the twins), who presumes to know what is best for the kids and ignores what her actual parents have said. And given Ana's history with the twins (re: Mariana selling drugs, Stef getting shot etc), I would have thought Mike would have been more inclined to follow Stef/Lena's wishes. 

 

I just find it a strange pattern and not a good look. YMMV

[jace]

Brandon/Callie and Callie having a family with Stef and Lena are mutually exclusive. You can't have both. Typically when you fight with your SO, one of the safe places is your family. You should be able to call your mom and know she's going to be on your side. Neither of these people could ever have that safe spot. It is ridiculous. It could get worse, Callie could cheat, Brandon could cheat. Brandon could hit Callie, the kids. Etc. You figure that all out.

The rest of the story, eh, Stef and Lena bickering again. Not a fan. And I am not siding with Stef, I saw this coming with Lena since she got passed for Principal. She hit a dead end at that school, this basically gave her an out. And she's probably not to concerned with money because of her mom and dad. She doesn't come from the background Stef does, since apparently her dad didn't leave her anything but a car.

Brandon and Callie suck the energy from the show. They throw the theme right out the window. It's just a non started and I too think the network has influence over the show. Their hash tags show that they ship beyond any kind of sense, and that they are determined to push that agenda.

I think, I want callie to go become a quinn and date brandon and be done with it. See how long that lasts. There really is only one way for this to work out.

[CPP83]

@SparedTurkey, I think it's been a common theme with this show where a parent or parental figure makes a decision that goes against something they said they'd do or not do earlier, and that goes for the fathers and mothers. Basically everyone on this show seems to do whatever the hell they want to at least once an episode, I guess it's meant to increase "drama".

 

To me those scenes, as so many other scenes in the finale, were meant to push things forward more than anything else, that's why nothing came of them except more plot pushing.

 

And personally I still think the whole 'Mike becomes Ana's hero champion' story line just to keep her around and in the twins' lives is just utter tripe. Mike wouldn't have given Ana the time of day after all she did to his family, not killing her was good enough. The writers just seem determined to keep her around and they've decided to use Mike as a way to do that, which to me is sad because I like Mike and all things dealing with the twins and their mother do not interest me in the slightest.

[LisaM]

I just hope that they don't go the route of reformed Ana and Mike dating.

[gmc89]

Hiya! Been reading these boards for a while but only decided to post today so hello! Sorry if I have not got the quoting or replying figured out yet.

 

Just to weigh in my two cents. The main reason I watch the show is for the family and the mom/kid interactions. I think they do them like no other show I've seen to be honest. The main reason I didn't like Brallie first time round was the huge shift of focus it caused. It was accused by some of becoming "The Brandon and Callie Show" and I could definitely sympathise with that. They tidied it up, maybe a little looser than I'd have liked, but personally I think the show learned from what I would say were mistakes and put forward a really strong 2A. On the back of that I'm not too worried about them revisiting it. Sure, I would rather it was gone for good, but as we ended with the kiss I think, as some have pointed out, there is room for reflection and in some ways it may be good to have a second opportunity for them to revisit this. It could potentially be towards a more conclusive end (my hope) or maybe they will take a different approach. As we have seen growth from both characters and it happened in a characteristic moment of desperation on Callie's part I would like to think that even if it is revisited it will be done in a more mature way than the last time and I think 2A has convinced me enough to trust the writers.

 

My main issue with most of the pro-Brallie arguments is that even if we move away from the argument that they are not legally siblings and that Callie already has her role within the family, what happens if they break up a few years down the line? Where do loyalties lie? That would be my issue and why in my mind it is an unhealthy relationship. It's not whether Callie is bound to the family by Jude or not, if this is any indication that Brandon and Callie have found it so hard to separate after 3 kisses then facilitating them and encouraging them to have a full blown relationship would be pretty poor guidance as at the end of it Brandon is secure in that family and Callie is not. A messy break up which is an incredibly likely possibility for teen romance would leave poor Callie alienated or at least in an incredibly awkward situation. I'm not saying she'd be kicked out but whether the family intended or not it would likely cause a huge emotional stress. I can't see any parent ever encouraging that possibility, even if just a possibility. I don't buy that you can't push past feelings, especially at 16. The risks outweigh the gain in my mind. You can channel those feelings into another form of a relationship (such as Mike and Stef) and that is much easier to do at early stages. Personally I see a deep connection with Brandon and Callie that could survive beyond a romantic one and I would be much more interested to see that.

 

If the show chooses to go down the Brallie road then I will accept it. It's TV land and I'm not naive, I know they would try and make it work one way or another but I will find it hard to rationalise with real life - something the show does pretty well on most other storylines so I personally think it would be a shame.

 

Also, just to comment on the ratings - my interpretation based on the comments from back then was the ratings slide post 16 was not based on the Brallie break up. The pro-Brallie comments were as strong as ever and I saw no indication that people were leaving due to them breaking up. What it seemed people objected to about 16 was that 15 gave hope that Brallie would be over and the show would be moving on and back to the family focus but then episode 16 was still extremely Brandon/Callie centric even if not together and I think a lot of people lost hope. Compounded with dislike of the sperm donor storyline and a feeling that the aftermath was a bit slapdash, you could see the interest from the adult demographic waning. It may have been just the vocal minority but the most common opinion I could see was that it lost its way. 2A however has refocussed back to full family (something that wasn't possible throughout 1B) and maintained steady ratings. I am not stating this as fact, just interpretation and obviously one that is not immune to bias.

 

Anyhow, sorry for so much. Personally I am extremely optimistic for 2B as I think 2A has been super! 

[imustbecrazy]

gmc89, welcome to the party!  You captured a lot of my thoughts so all I have to say is "ditto"!

 

 

Personally I see a deep connection with Brandon and Callie that could survive beyond a romantic one and I would be much more interested to see that.

 

I kind of alluded to this in my earlier comment up-thread but you said it more succinctly.  I think they have a beautiful friendship and it is one of the parts of the show I enjoy the most.  It was Brandon after all who was Callie's biggest supporter when she acknowledged the rape, and it was Callie who helped Brandon pull things together when Stef was shot. I don't really care if they go the romantic route or not (and I think exploring that can be done in a thoughtful way if the writers chose to), as long as they retain that unique connection that they have.

 

I do believe that the biggest reason the show got off track in season 1B was that Stef and Lena started acting like idiots and completely out of character as the whole pregnancy arc started.  They had established in 1A two fully-fleshed-out, strong-but-flawed characters to be the bedrock of the family and then they had them do some very uncharacteristically immature and flighty things that were not at all consistent with the original characterizations. (I think in interviews the actresses may have even hinted at that problem?)  In 2A they are back to giving Teri and Sherri some real substance to chew on and they have Stef and Lena back to the people we knew them to be at the beginning of the series.  Also in 1B you had Callie out of the house either running away or at GU for almost half the episodes and it destroyed the family dynamic IMHO.

 

Hopefully there is not an extended stint where Callie is again out of the house by being forced to live with the Quinns or something, because then we would be right back to what I think got the show off-track last year.  The Fosters need to be around that big kitchen table together or its not The Fosters.

Edited August 20, 2014 by imustbecrazy

[GenevieveS]

I've seen several people refer to the adoption as "getting that piece of paper" in the context of underlining that it may not be that big a deal if Callie is never adopted.

 

I feel like the show sort of addressed this already, but also think they've missed out on highlighting some potential parallels with marriage equality.

 

As long as Callie is not adopted and under 18, the state can yank her back out of that home with no notice. That's the risk that the show addressed with the silly set-up that the Foster's license expired. But it could also happen if they get reported for, oh, say, allowing the biological son to have a romantic relationship with a foster daughter. Especially a foster daughter with a history of sexual abuse. There are also restrictions placed on teens in foster care that are not true of teens with finalized adoptions, but the show has not done a good job of showing that. (In some states, teens in foster care have been denied the ability to go on out-of-state field trips with their classes at school because of travel restrictions placed on all children in the foster system.)

 

Once Callie is 18, yes, the state is out of the picture. But here's where the parallels to marriage equality come in. The finalized adoption, like the marriage certificate, is not "just a piece of paper." It entitles the "family" (whether you're talking about a spousal relationship or a parent/child one) to certain legal rights. Without the finalized adoption certificate, Lena and Stef would not have rights to Callie's medical information as an adult, if she were incapacitated and unable to give them consent. Without the finalized adoption certificate, Callie (as an adult) as no rights to medical information about Lena and/or Stef in a similar situation. Without the finalized adoption certificate, Callie has no automatic legal inheritance rights if something happens to Lena and Stef. Without the finalized adoption certificate, Stef and Lena cannot put Callie on their own health insurance plans and must keep her in the state-run Medicaid system. Without the finalized adoption certificate, the world-at-large (legally) does not recognize Callie as a member of the Foster family; depending on the the way Jude's adoption was done, it may even no longer recognize her as his brother now. (He is legally a Foster; she is not.)

 

It really is more than just a piece of paper.

Edited August 20, 2014 by GenevieveS

[gmc89]

I do believe that the biggest reason the show got off track in season 1B was that Stef and Lena started acting like idiots and completely out of character as the whole pregnancy arc started.  They had established in 1A two fully-fleshed-out, strong-but-flawed characters to be the bedrock of the family and then they had them do some very uncharacteristically immature and flighty things that were not at all consistent with the original characterizations. (I think in interviews the actresses may have even hinted at that problem?)  In 2A they are back to giving Teri and Sherri some real substance to chew on and they have Stef and Lena back to the people we knew them to be at the beginning of the series.  Also in 1B you had Callie out of the house either running away or at GU for almost half the episodes and it destroyed the family dynamic IMHO.

 

Yes - I think this was the wider impression. You are right to clarify that it wasn't just Brallie. I think I just lump the two together as it felt a little like Callie's not being there was because of the relationship. You are absolutely right that there was a lot of unhappiness with the Stef and Lena storyline too. I personally wasn't as bothered by that but I understand why many were. I am glad that we got the family focus back and that's why I'm confident that even if we go back to Brallie it won't necessarily be done in the way that was part of what upset the show so much. I'm not saying it won't still be polarising, but I'm certainly confident that it could be done in a less antagonising way. And thanks for the welcome. 

[imustbecrazy]

GenevieveS, that is a really good point re: Callie's situation.  She has no real security until that adoption goes through.  Does anyone know if the appropriate authorities ever became aware of Callie's reason for running away vis a vis Brandon?  I know she stated it in group sessions at GU, and I know Rita was aware of it because of that and also catching her sneaking around to see Brandon, but did any of the social workers ever become privy to that information?  It would seem that would be a big deal as to her status living in the Fosters' household.

Edited August 20, 2014 by imustbecrazy

[galax-arena]

I realize that ABC Family is geared towards teenage girls. I have nothing against cheesy teenage soapy goodness, and I’ve never really agreed with people who have said stuff like, “IDGAF about the kids’ drama, I only want more Lena and Stef!” (I adore Lena and Stef, but I don’t mind following the kids either*.) It’s just that I don’t care for this particular thing, i.e. Brandon/Callie. I want them to be defeated for all time, where they will never rise from the ashes of their shame and humiliation.

 

* Even Jesus, now. Still think that Jake Austin is a pretty bad actor, but I’m interested to see where they’re going with Hayley and her nascent creepiness/manipulation. Good to see that that storyline is about more than Jesus being a horndog. And it feels less trite/overdone than the love triangle/star-crossed lovers cliché that is Brandon/Callie/Wyatt’s hair.

[MaiSoCalled]

Brandon/Callie and Callie having a family with Stef and Lena are mutually exclusive. You can't have both.

 

Personally I see a deep connection with Brandon and Callie that could survive beyond a romantic one and I would be much more interested to see that.

 

I agree with both of these statements very much. I think the actors do have a great chemistry, and if the story was slightly different I could be a fan of their romantic relationship. If Brandon was a close family friend for example, that could be very interesting. How do the Fosters deal with loyalties when torn between their new (almost) adopted daughter and a boy who is like a son to them. Closer to the Mariana/Lexi/Jesus dynamic. I love teen romance - I'm far too old to, but I do. But Brandon and Callie rub me the wrong way for many reasons stated in this thread. I only started this show recently, I binged watched the first season on Netflix, and the only reason I didn't start sooner was the idea of the interfamily dating that was heavily advertised. 

 

That said, as I mentioned before, I am okay with their kiss at the end of this episode. It felt like something that would happen organically in the moment, and I hope it will lead to some soul searching on Callie's part. I want to see her flirt with the idea of becoming a Quinn. I want her decision to be a Foster to be based on more than they're the only family who wants her. I want her to realize that Mariana is more of a sister to her than Sofia, and she has a stronger connection to Stef and Lena than her birth father. I want to see her having the picture perfect life - living in a mansion and having the opportunity to date her dream boy - and realizing that's not as important as being with the Fosters. 

 

But here's where the parallels to marriage equality come in.

 

I had not put the idea of adoption together with marriage equality, and I love how you did. It's a beautiful symmetry, and allows me to appreciate Callie's struggle on a new level. Thank you.  

[LisaM]

 

As long as Callie is not adopted and under 18, the state can yank her back out of that home with no notice. That's the risk that the show addressed with the silly set-up that the Foster's license expired. But it could also happen if they get reported for, oh, say, allowing the biological son to have a romantic relationship with a foster daughter. Especially a foster daughter with a history of sexual abuse. There are also restrictions placed on teens in foster care that are not true of teens with finalized adoptions, but the show has not done a good job of showing that. (In some states, teens in foster care have been denied the ability to go on out-of-state field trips with their classes at school because of travel restrictions placed on all children in the foster system.)

 

Once Callie is 18, yes, the state is out of the picture. But here's where the parallels to marriage equality come in. The finalized adoption, like the marriage certificate, is not "just a piece of paper." It entitles the "family" (whether you're talking about a spousal relationship or a parent/child one) to certain legal rights. Without the finalized adoption certificate, Lena and Stef would not have rights to Callie's medical information as an adult, if she were incapacitated and unable to give them consent. Without the finalized adoption certificate, Callie (as an adult) as no rights to medical information about Lena and/or Stef in a similar situation. Without the finalized adoption certificate, Callie has no automatic legal inheritance rights if something happens to Lena and Stef. Without the finalized adoption certificate, Stef and Lena cannot put Callie on their own health insurance plans and must keep her in the state-run Medicaid system. Without the finalized adoption certificate, the world-at-large (legally) does not recognize Callie as a member of the Foster family; depending on the the way Jude's adoption was done, it may even no longer recognize her as his brother now. (He is legally a Foster; she is not.)

 

It really is more than just a piece of paper.

I thought that this was a terrific post.

 

When Sophia went into the bathroom, my first thought was that she was going to see Brandon and Callie kissing from the bathroom window - which would blow the adoption sky high because of the foster brother/foster sister romantic relationship.

 

I think that the Elaine situation - even though it was clumsily done - really brought home the precariousness of Callie's situation.

[truthaboutluv]

Just to be clear, as someone who has mentioned the "piece of paper" part, I am well aware of the legalities of having Callie be legally adopted and I noted that I do believe that is part of her determination to be adopted - the stability of it all. My comment was in response to the comments that "Callie needs a family" as if that is the only way she is family or can be family. That is what I do disagree with, that somehow if she's not legally adopted by The Fosters, then she doesn't have a family. Because as I said and still believe, I think that belies the show's message that family at the end of the day is really just about love. If Callie somehow ends up with her biological dad, I personally don't think that automatically makes her not family to The Fosters simply because she is not legally their daughter. Because they will still love and care about her and support her. 

[GildedLily]

When Sophia went into the bathroom, my first thought was that she was going to see Brandon and Callie kissing from the bathroom window - which would blow the adoption sky high because of the foster brother/foster sister romantic relationship.

This is how I expected the adoption would blow up too when I saw the preview last week and especially when Sophia started talking to her about Brandon. I didn’t see the silly pulling the papers out of the mail twist coming. But maybe I should have with Sophia’s age. I guess this would have been too soapy and that's why they didn't go there. Or it's going to become part of the issue/fight for Callie (God I hope they don't do a custody battle) when we pick up in January.

I've seen several people refer to the adoption as "getting that piece of paper" in the context of underlining that it may not be that big a deal if Callie is never adopted.

I feel like the show sort of addressed this already, but also think they've missed out on highlighting some potential parallels with marriage equality.

As long as Callie is not adopted and under 18, the state can yank her back out of that home with no notice. That's the risk that the show addressed with the silly set-up that the Foster's license expired. But it could also happen if they get reported for, oh, say, allowing the biological son to have a romantic relationship with a foster daughter. Especially a foster daughter with a history of sexual abuse. There are also restrictions placed on teens in foster care that are not true of teens with finalized adoptions, but the show has not done a good job of showing that. (In some states, teens in foster care have been denied the ability to go on out-of-state field trips with their classes at school because of travel restrictions placed on all children in the foster system.)

Once Callie is 18, yes, the state is out of the picture. But here's where the parallels to marriage equality come in. The finalized adoption, like the marriage certificate, is not "just a piece of paper." It entitles the "family" (whether you're talking about a spousal relationship or a parent/child one) to certain legal rights. Without the finalized adoption certificate, Lena and Stef would not have rights to Callie's medical information as an adult, if she were incapacitated and unable to give them consent. Without the finalized adoption certificate, Callie (as an adult) as no rights to medical information about Lena and/or Stef in a similar situation. Without the finalized adoption certificate, Callie has no automatic legal inheritance rights if something happens to Lena and Stef. Without the finalized adoption certificate, Stef and Lena cannot put Callie on their own health insurance plans and must keep her in the state-run Medicaid system. Without the finalized adoption certificate, the world-at-large (legally) does not recognize Callie as a member of the Foster family; depending on the the way Jude's adoption was done, it may even no longer recognize her as his brother now. (He is legally a Foster; she is not.)

It really is more than just a piece of paper.

I think the wrinkle now is Robert.. Yes, the State could rip from the Fosters' home until the adoption goes through- that's what we saw in 1B and in the premiere pre looking for Robert. But the odds that she would end up in foster care, in a group home are nil now with Robert in the picture. In Padre, it was basically the Fosters or remaining a ward of the state. A biological father who is on her birth certificate who didn't knowingly abandon her, who has never abused her and who has tons of money and the politically connected friends that come with having a lot of money would be able to expedite removing her from state control and asserting his parental rights and right to legal custody very, very quickly. The reason that hasn't happened is because of her wishes to go through with a foster to adopt scenario with the Fosters. I'm not saying she should necessarily throw away being adopted by them and it's clear right now that she's not looking to live with the Quinn. All I'm saying is that the very dire, precarious situation that existed in 1B is now quite different. She has options, it's not as black and white- although she was too emotional in the finale to see that. From at least a practical standpoint, it's no longer the Fosters or going back to her hellish childhood as a ward of the state.

But for the legal reasons you listed, you're so right. It's not just a piece of paper. This is where being a Brandon and Callie fan and being a lawyer gets hard for me. But ultimately I think these things are ones that she can take the time to think about more rationally and weigh than in 1B where she was a scared kid who just wanted to have somewhere safe to land with people who cared. She has that now. She is part of the Foster family in a real (and permanent) way, if not a legal one, which is what Brandon was I think trying to tell her before she kissed him and what truthaboutluv stated eloquently above. And I think now it's a matter of weighing these legal ramifications against severing her (legal) relationship with Robert, breaking Sophia's heart and having the option of a relationship with Brandon permanently off the table. And maybe she'll still go with the Fosters and the adoption for the reasons you stated. My only thought is that it's now a different decision with some different considerations than the one she made when she decided to come back to their house in Padre and I hope the show plays those nuances.

I kind of alluded to this in my earlier comment up-thread but you said it more succinctly. I think they have a beautiful friendship and it is one of the parts of the show I enjoy the most. It was Brandon after all who was Callie's biggest supporter when she acknowledged the rape, and it was Callie who helped Brandon pull things together when Stef was shot. I don't really care if they go the romantic route or not (and I think exploring that can be done in a thoughtful way if the writers chose to), as long as they retain that unique connection that they have.

I do believe that the biggest reason the show got off track in season 1B was that Stef and Lena started acting like idiots and completely out of character as the whole pregnancy arc started. They had established in 1A two fully-fleshed-out, strong-but-flawed characters to be the bedrock of the family and then they had them do some very uncharacteristically immature and flighty things that were not at all consistent with the original characterizations. (I think in interviews the actresses may have even hinted at that problem?) In 2A they are back to giving Teri and Sherri some real substance to chew on and they have Stef and Lena back to the people we knew them to be at the beginning of the series. Also in 1B you had Callie out of the house either running away or at GU for almost half the episodes and it destroyed the family dynamic IMHO.

Hopefully there is not an extended stint where Callie is again out of the house by being forced to live with the Quinns or something, because then we would be right back to what I think got the show off-track last year. The Fosters need to be around that big kitchen table together or its not The Fosters.

I agree with this analysis of Brandon and Callie, of the problems with 1B, of Stef and Lena and of where the show needs to keep its focus. It’s completely spot on and feels more fair than the cries of Brandon and Callie ate the show, are gross, must be portrayed as brother and sister, etc. You articulated it so well that I wish you wrote for the show :)

Edited August 20, 2014 by GildedLily

[RachelKM]

I thought that this was a terrific post.

 

When Sophia went into the bathroom, my first thought was that she was going to see Brandon and Callie kissing from the bathroom window - which would blow the adoption sky high because of the foster brother/foster sister romantic relationship.

 

I think that the Elaine situation - even though it was clumsily done - really brought home the precariousness of Callie's situation.

Sometimes I think we have the same brain when it comes to this show.  I too am concerned about Brandon and Callie being discovered.  I don't think it was ever made known to Social Services why Callie ran away or why Brandon moved out temporarily when Callie came back.  I actually think it is pretty surprising that they were able to avoid that being made known, but nothing we've seen indicates it was dealt with by or acknowledged to Social Services.

 

And I think if Robert especially were to learn of it, it would give him further pause as to giving up his parental rights in favor of Callie living in a house wherein her legal brother would also be her boyfriend or even ex-boyfriend.   It was already nearly impossible for him to do the first time when he was sure it was a good thing for Callie.  He was finding it impossible to do a second time, especially in light of her acknowledgement of him.  But once he had what I think are valid concerns about the environment, I cannot imagine he wouldn't fight this.

 

And all he has to do is say to the court that his concerns are about Callie and Brandon and she'd likely be pulled out of that house irrespective of Robert maintaining his own rights.

Edited August 20, 2014 by RachelKM

[LisaM]

 

But for the legal reasons you listed, you're so right. It's not just a piece of paper. This is where being a Brandon and Callie fan and being a lawyer gets hard for me. But ultimately I think these things are something she can take the time to  think about more rationally and weigh than in 1B where she was a scared kid who just wanted to have somewhere safe to land with people who cared. She has that now. She is part of the Foster family in a real (and permanent) way, if not a legal one, which is what Brandon was I think trying to tell her before she kissed him and what truthaboutluv stated eloquently above. And I think now it's a matter of weighing these legal ramifications against severing her (legal) relationship with Robert, breaking Sophia's heart and having the option of a relationship with Brandon permanently off the table. And maybe she'll still go with the Fosters and the adoption for the reasons you stated. My only thought is that it's now a different decision with some different considerations than the one she made when she decided to come back to their house in Padre and I hope the show plays those nuances.

I think that, if Jude had not already been adopted by the Fosters, Callie would have a much more difficult decision to make. I just cannot see Callie leaving Jude in favor of moving in with the Quinns. He would perceive it as Callie picking Sophia over him and I cannot ever see Callie allowing Jude to feel that way. She has already told Jude that she wouldn't see Sophia anymore if he didn't want her to. Even putting aside Sophia's crazy act of ripping up the papers, I cannot envision Callie leaving the Foster family - which now includes her beloved brother - in favor of moving in with her newly found bio dad and bio sister. However, if Jude was still in play (and potentially available to be adopted by the Quinns), I think that is possibly a different scenario.

[allinnow]

truthaboutluv

....... My comment was in response to the comments that "Callie needs a family" as if that is the only way she is family or can be family. That is what I do disagree with, that somehow if she's not legally adopted by The Fosters, then she doesn't have a family. Because as I said and still believe, I think that belies the show's message that family at the end of the day is really just about love. If Callie somehow ends up with her biological dad, I personally don't think that automatically makes her not family to The Fosters simply because she is not legally their daughter. Because they will still love and care about her and support her.

 

 

Well stated - Nice to see you back.  Before Callie goes totally off in one direction (adopted by the Fosters or nothing) I’d like to see her realize that she has two moms (three if Jill’s expression when she sees Sophia and Callie sleeping in the same bed means anything), two dads – Robert and Donald (as I believe Donald loves her as his own daughter), two brothers, two sisters, Rita, and even Wyatt, who all love her dearly.  She is a lucky girl in that respect.

 

In the show, she's what 16 years old.  So I wouldn't expect too much from her character - although she's got more than a typical 16 year olds life experience behind her.  It would be nice to see the show spend some time on a few things an episode/season rather than the blitzkrieg of 20-30 second interactions between the characters:  Like Callie realizing that she has all sorts of family that cares about her, coming to the understanding that none of them will ever abandon her, and how she comes to balance all that out.  There's a whole season worth of plot right there without Brallie/Wyatt/whatever that imo would still keep the 12-17 year old girls interest.  This has been mentioned before but the amount of data/drama that comes at you every episode leaves little room for other than superficial character development.

 

And to that point, I think all the characters in the show have a place.  Ex. the interaction between Stef/Lena seems to be a good portrayal of an alternate relationship/parenting that I haven't seen on TV before.  Made me think of how a same sex couple would deal with family issues - image that - just like everyone else - poorly at times and great at others. 

 

However, the show started with Callie with an emphasis on Brandon (goes with her to find Jude, etc.) so that's where I've always seen  the focus.  All of the characters could amount to something if given a chance.  Ten seconds of Jesus texting Haley and a one or two word reply from Stef isn't really giving that character much of a chance.  Just look at the reaction to Marianna's conversation with Lena about a "real" daughter or Rita/Callie having a whole paragraph of "why wouldn't you want something from Robert" vs. a couple of sentences.  Even a minute or two where they get some time to really connect and that moment just shines compared to the rest.

 

I thought the show started out well and I accepted the blitz of drama as needed to get it off the ground but it's time to slow down.  Let's see how sweeping Brandon/Callie's feelings aside by Lena/Stef pressing full speed ahead with the adoption really affected both, how Jesus deals with being in a controlling relationship - with the guy being on the controlled end - nice twist, what's really up with Sophia - why is she so depressed/obsessed, etc.  Just too much going on too fast.  Although I watch the show, they've lost my attention because so little gets developed each episode.

 

YMMV of course.

[GildedLily]

It would be nice to see the show spend some time on a few things an episode/season rather than the blitzkrieg of 20-30 second interactions between the characters. All of the characters could amount to something if given a chance. Ten seconds of Jesus texting Haley and a one or two word reply from Stef isn't really giving that character much of a chance. Just look at the reaction to Marianna's conversation with Lena about a "real" daughter or Rita/Callie having a whole paragraph of "why wouldn't you want something from Robert" vs. a couple of sentences. Even a minute or two where they get some time to really connect and that moment just shines compared to the rest.

I thought the show started out well and I accepted the blitz of drama as needed to get it off the ground but it's time to slow down. Let's see how sweeping Brandon/Callie's feelings aside by Lena/Stef pressing full speed ahead with the adoption really affected both, how Jesus deals with being in a controlling relationship - with the guy being on the controlled end - nice twist, what's really up with Sophia - why is she so depressed/obsessed, etc. Just too much going on too fast. Although I watch the show, they've lost my attention because so little gets developed each episode.

This is fabulous point. Like I am clapping as I read this post. I know feedback for 2A seemed more positive than 1B and I think some of the episodes were very strong. But pacing wise it was kind of a mess where way too much happened in a shortwindow of 10 episodes. Look at all that happened to just 4 of our 7-8 main characters.

Lena- Finds out about a roadblock to Callie’s adoption. Applies for principal where sperm donor is on committee. Fights with Stef over Brandon having surgery. Tries to reconnect with Stef on babymoon. Brandon confides in her about Dani. Timothy appears ready to for custody of her unborn baby. Then he backs off. She’s passed over for principal. She’s forced to terminate her pregnancy for medical reasons which forces her to do a lot of thinking about her ties to her other children with some help from her mother. Helps B tell Stef and Mike about dani. Comes back from a 2 episode break to fight with Connor’s father over his insinuations that Jude is gay. Quits her job.

Callie- Finds out about Robert Quinn’s existence. Gets pulled back into foster care briefly due to a paperwork snafu. Robert Quinn shows up at her job. Finds out about Sophia. Tries to be the hardass when her siblings throw a party where Brandon sings their song with another girl. Has to tell Jude about the existence of Sophia. Meets Robert, Jill and Sophia at their mansion. Tells Wyatt she loves him. Considers having sex for the first time post-rape. Has a panic attack when she and Wyatt actually attempt to do so. Deals with Jude not speaking for 2 eps. Confides in Wyatt about her rape only after Brandon convinces her to do so. Brings Jude to meet the Quinns. Goes back to Girls United, gives 100 pep talks, has to escape burning building. Witnesses Wyatt & Brandon punching her rapist during a street fair. Fights/appears to break up with Wyatt. Asks Robert for help for Girls United after several eps of insisting she would ask him for nothing. Acknowledges him publicly as her father, finds out Sophia ripped the abandonment papers up and Robert won’t execute another copy and subsequently makes out with Brandon all in the season’s final 10 minutes.

Brandon- Struggles to get back to playing piano. Fights with his parents about a potentially risky surgery. Meets a new potential love interest while continuing to make sad puppy dog eyes from time to time when around Callie. Joins a band and conveniently only knows Outlaws when he needs to lead sing. Has Dani directing him to keep what happened between them secret while he feels guilty. Gets high and confides in Lena about Dani. Begs Lena not to tell. Ultimately tells both parents what happened with him and Dani which devastates him. Has to be convinced to cooperate when they decide to press criminal charges. Ends up in the middle of an altercation between Wyatt and Liam. Tells Lou it’s not a good time to get involved. Kisses her passionately in the next ep. Ends Ends the season with Callie telling him maybe she was never supposed to be adopted and kissing him.

Mike- (who I think isn't even supposed to be seen as a main character)- Begins the season with Stef suspecting that he murdered Ana. Appears to want to get very serious with Dani. Disappears a lot until ultimately we find out he’s disappearing to help Ana. Is confronted by Stef about this. Confides in Lena he might want to have a baby with Dani. In the next ep finds out about Dani and Brandon. Has to be convinced it was rape and then has to convince Brandon. Watches Dani be taken from his apartment in handcuffs. Helps Ana attempt to reach out to make amends with the twins. Runs into Mariana while with Ana. Apologizes to Brandon for his failings once again.

It’s exhausting to keep up with and I say that as someone who loves soapy drama which not every viewer does. It was enough material to cover more than a full season, maybe 2, not just a half one. And what ends up happening is that the good, emotional beats that go along with so many of these big events get dropped or plowed through at lightening speed. The cast size has also made this difficult- we have a big core cast to to begin with that also includes another household with Mike. And then the Quinns, Rosie and GU, all the various kid love interests, the dance team etc.—any of whom might be heavily supporting in a given episode.

What ends up happening is a ton happens in the course of a miniseason but none of it is particularly well threaded. We’d seen Sophia for all of 10 minutes over 4 eps before she was part of a huge solo scene dark cliffhanger. Stef and Lena should be really shocked by this Brallie development because they haven’t so much as discussed if anything could still be lingering there and how they've adjusted as siblings since like the ep where C first came home, even when they left them alone overnight despite that Stef orginally was in tune in enough to be the first person besides Talya to pick up on their attraction initially. Lena never really got to weigh in on Mike now being Ana’s personal guru which I REALLY wanted to see that. Is Dani out on bail? Where does Wyatt live?

1A didn’t have this choppy, too much going on feel at all and my biggest wish for 2B is that the breakneck pacing calms down and the plots/supporting rotating characters are pared down.

Edited August 21, 2014 by GildedLily

[morakot]

There IS, of course, a way that Callie can be a Foster and still have a romantic, physical relationship with Brandon. With parental permission, they can get married, and voila, she is a Foster, lives at the house AND gets her true love!

 

Of course, Brandon might have to give up being the only character aside from Sophia who has a bedroom of his own... or does he have two bedrooms of his own -- one at Mom's and one at Dad's?

Edited August 20, 2014 by morakot

[DeepPoet117]

There IS, of course, a way that Callie can be a Foster and still have a romantic, physical relationship with Brandon. With parental permission, they can get married, and voila, she is a Foster, lives at the house AND gets her true love!

 

Callie's still legally a ward of the state. I doubt the state would give permission for Callie to marry her foster brother. 

[SparedTurkey]

 

CPP83 To me those scenes, as so many other scenes in the finale, were meant to push things forward more than anything else, that's why nothing came of them except more plot pushing.

I know, they were all plot points to get from A to B. Sometimes I wish this show would take a breath before running from one big issue to the other. And I agree the Mike/Ana relationship is just bizzare. Unless she is extorting him, I don't see Mike giving her any time either.

 

I agree with those saying adoption is more than a piece of paper. I know the show's motot seems to be that love makes a family, not DNA etc. but it has to end with Callie being adopted. Fankly, Stef/Lena > Brandon.

[izabella]

Is Sophia going to try to kill herself now that her new sister has disavowed her? My guess is that she is a cutter but I don't think she will try to commit suicide - not that I really care.

 

I was thinking Sophia might be going in there to vomit.  It seems like an eating disorder would be in keeping with her stressed out, trying to be perfect for her parents character. 

[CPP83]

Just too much going on too fast.  Although I watch the show, they've lost my attention because so little gets developed each episode.

 

 

 

 I think you summed it up perfectly, what's wrong with this show.

 

It's bad enough they've tried to claim it's only been six months since so much happened, as if time just hit the pause button, but when you really start breaking everything down everyone on this show should be rocking in corners having lost their wits.

 

Lena and Stef already had their hands full with the twins and Brandon and then suddenly they think nothing of adding two more, quite troubled, kids to the mix, but yet the focus usually drifts to the most trivial and pointless things in their lives, and when the big issues finally are presented front and center there's no time to deal with anything in any real capacity so much is swept aside. And that's just the tip of the iceberg with this show.

 

They've tried to cram way too much into this show, imo, and they gave way too many of the characters big problems, most that weren't even necessary.

[possibilities]

Wyatt has better hair.

Indeed! This might be the one thing people on all sides of the triangle can agree on! On a show with many controversies, hair seems to be the great uniter. Mariana being better as a brunette seems to be the other issue on which a broad consensus exists.

 

A show where Callie finds herself with an older brother who is there for her and a show where Brandon finds himself with a new sister who becomes his biggest supporter would be awesome.  A show showing how familial love is so much more than who you are related to by blood.  That is what this show could be.  But everytime this Callie and Brandon plot rares it's ugly head, it takes away from how strong the show could be. ...So here is a show where a major emphasis is adoption.  And it has a chance to show how much a young person's life can change thanks to an older sibling figure.  What do we get instead.  An insipid, dull, idiotic romance that brings the show to halt every time it comes back again.  Why?  So much possibility to show something wonderful and life changing.  And we get this? 

I think this is why it upsets me as much as it does. Not just for the fact that I find it stupid and boring, but that it's in direct opposition to something I would find compelling and meaningful and rare on TV.

"Robert, too. He jerks everyone around and it's all about him. First it was his money he was protecting. Now it's his poor privileged wounded heart. Is he kidding? Even Ana finally knew better."

~~~
Lol, what? Robert has made it pretty clear that he felt pressured by his family to 'protect' his money. We already know he left Callie's mom because he was pressured to do so, it's totally in-character. And he dropped that point of contention in this episode as it became clear he wanted a continuing relationship with Callie, in whatever way he could manage (college fund, etc.).

And he's not protecting his 'privileged heart'. He JUST FOUND OUT he had a daughter with his old, dead flame. As Rita says, Callie's easy to love. He clearly loves and dotes on Sophia - why is it unreasonable that he would want a relationship with her, and that signing ABANDONMENT papers would be hard for him? Doubly hard now that he has heard her claim him as her father in front of her family and all his friends?

And finally, either you think bio parents should be responsible for their kids, or you don't. Why are you bringing Ana into this? Ana failed her children over and over again, and now wants to try to repair their relationship. You say this is a good thing (I agree). Robert didn't even know Callie existed, and wants to create a relationship with her, and you say this is a bad thing? Make up your mind.

This reaction to what I said makes me realize I wasn't speaking as clearly as I thought I was, so let me explain what I meant. I'm not trying to, and don't expect to, change how anyone else feels about or sees the episode, but at least I want what I say to clearly represent what I myself am thinking!

 

RE having it both ways and whether or not I think bioparents should take care of their kids: What I was trying to say is that Robert has been protecting himself and presenting his feelings and needs to Callie, as though it's her job to worry about that, and as though he regards her as a threat to his well-being-- first by his initial reaction being to require her to renounce any claims on his money, and then later he says he won't go through with letting her be adopted because it hurts him too much. My throwing Ana into the mix was because she recognized that it wasn't Jesus's job to taker care of her or make her feel better. And Robert was not comforting or reassuring Callie during this week's crisis, he was just asking for her to take care of him and he was whining to her about his feelings, not taking a moment to acknowledge how and why she was upset and what her feelings or needs were. I do not in any way think Ana is an exemplar, and I'm not actually convinced nor did I ever say, that she was trying to repair her relationship with the twins. Except for her moment at the end of their encounter, where she finally realized Jesus was still taking care of her, I think Ana is still trying to "make amends" to make herself feel better, and not doing it in a way that actually helps the twins at all. But Robert has not been acting like a parent to Callie, he has been acting like a jilted boyfriend, someone who wants her because he regards her as his, or who doesn't want her, because he is afraid she's not really his, and his interactions with her have not been characterized by attempts to understand her needs, but by attempts to protect himself from further hurt. Whether or not he has a legitimate reason to be upset by the situation, he should not be leading with that in his interactions with Callie. He should be demonstrating that he can put his feelings aside and look at her best interests. All his conversations with her have revolved around how shocked he was to discover her, or how hard it is to let her go, and none have been about how painful the situation is for Callie, why she's wanting the adoption, or what she needs deep down. If what he wants is an open adoption, or for her to consider living with him, or joint custody with her moms, or something else, he has stated none of that. From her perspective, he's been jerking her around, first rejecting her and then refusing to let her go. He needs to put her needs ahead of his pain and be capable of being there for her as a parent, not ask her to take care of him about the situation. If he's not strong enough to do that, or to stand up to what others want and put the best interests of Callie first, then i think he's not the right person to be her guardian, even if he's a nice guy and got to be so confused and heartbroken by honest means.

Did you watch the after show?

Nothing about self destructive choices or addictions or lapses or even poor impulsive judgment. So I respectfully think you're way off when you say the show is trying to portray a lapse or an addiction or a truly destructive relationship. It may be what you perceive and you're entitled to that but it's not at all what the people bringing us the show are selling.

I wanted to watch the aftershow, but I have been having computer problems and have not been able to get any kind of video to play lately. I will take your word for it that Paige said what you said he said, and I find it disappointing, but even more than that I find it funny, because I didn't even regard it as my own idea that the show has portrayed the Callie-Brandon romance as unhealthy and destructive and part of a pattern of her addiction to fleeing instead of trying to stay still and keep fighting for what she needs. That came from Rita, and really every other adult on the show, who have done everything to keep those two apart, including a restraining order, making Brandon move out of the house, and confiscation of telephones. It's possible that Paige really does believe they have an epic love, and that Rita, Stef, and Lena are just fuddy duddies, but I think I could be forgiven for not catching that implication from the show itself, whatever he was spouting in the aftershow. When Callie was pursuing Brandon and torpedoing her adoption, Rita explicitly told Callie that her addiction was not to drugs but to running away from and sabotaging what was good for her. Stef and Lena have consistently regarded any hint of Callie and Brandon lust as not to be pursued. We can disagree about it as viewers, but I think the show has given plenty of fodder for those who think the way I do, just as I can also see that they are giving encouragement to those who relish the couply moments the two share.

 

I think they absolutely want the audience to see that she gave up this big chance at love (whether or not teenage love usually lasts- this is TV land where it often does)  to be adopted, not that she its a matter of good vs bad behavior.

At this point, I won't try to argue about what the showrunners think or want us to think, but I will say that I find it infuriating if they do define sexuality between her and her 16 year old foster brother as a big chance at love that might possibly be equal to or greater than the familial love of the entire clan. Callie and Brandon can still love each other, but real love sometimes involves not going for your immediate desires and looking at the bigger picture. I just don't think teens need to think that if they don't get to have sex with every person they're attracted to, that they are having their lives ruined and a great sacrifice is being made. I am certain that both Callie and Brandon can love each other and find epic romantic love elsewhere. I guess I think that selling the star-crossed soulmate message to teens is a real disservice, if indeed that is what they are intending.
 

And all he has to do is say to the court that his concerns are about Callie and Brandon and she'd likely be pulled out of that house irrespective of Robert maintaining his own rights.

And this is why I consider it so extremely reckless and unhealthy for either Calllie or Brandon to risk it.

 

when you really start breaking everything down everyone on this show should be rocking in corners having lost their wits.

Ha! So very true. Maybe it's also why so many of us find ourselves foaming at the mouth after every episode. I know that for me as a viewer, the highs and lows are so extreme with this show, I simply cannot watch it with a normal level of detachment.

[CPP83]

Robert has not been acting like a parent to Callie, he has been acting like a jilted boyfriend, someone who wants her because he regards her as his, or who doesn't want her, because he is afraid she's not really his, and his interactions with her have not been characterized by attempts to understand her needs, but by attempts to protect himself from further hurt

 

 

 

I see things as being completely opposite to this. Robert first learned of Callie because he was served abandonment papers, which is what set off his family's legal team to basically start covering his butt because when out of the blue you're served papers dealing ith a sixteen year old kid you had no clue even existed and you're pretty darn rich not so good things can come of that revelation.

 

But that aside Robert also had to deal with the fact that this sixteen year old daughter he didn't know about pretty much wanted nothing to do with him. From the very beginning Robert has been bashed about the head that Callie wanted to be adopted, she didn't want to join his family, she didn't even seem to think of him as potentially becoming family to her period, she wanted him to sign on the dotted line and leave her be with the Fosters, and Robert didn't fight her or Lena and Stef on that.

 

Yes he took some time to try and get his thoughts together and, I'm sure, he tried to sort through his feelings as best he could with what little time he'd been given to do so, but he kept things moving forward towards the adoption, he never tried to put up any roadblocks to it.  And if Callie didn't want to talk about her feelings about finding out she was really a Quinn with Robert what could he do? Frankly I think that Robert would have probably jumped at the chance to have a real, in-depth discussion with Callie, but from the way they've written her character unless he tied her to a chair and gave her truth serum I don't see Callie ever volunteering any information willing.

 

From what the show seemed to imply Callie wasn't really talking to anyone about being Robert's daughter, and when Rita finally brought it up to her Callie tried to shut it down almost immediately, not wanting to discuss it or even entertain the idea that Robert "loved her". Callie bottles up a lot of her feelings and Robert doesn't seem the type to push or pry and those two personalities just don't mix well when it comes to having necessary, open ended conversations.

 

Ultimately I think the fact that Robert, despite hurting as badly as he was, doubting his decision, and just not wanting to let Callie go, still went through and signed those papers, solely for Callie's sake proves that he put her above his own feelings ten fold, and when it counted the most. I think he proved just how much he was trying not to hurt her or jerk her around or disregard how she felt when all this started when he didn't even try and fight for custody of any kind, potentially putting her through a trial and also affecting Jude in the process.

 

Obviously the final choice to sign Callie away was killing Robert, and honestly I can't think of any worse a decision to force a parent to make, but he didn't lie about signing the papers, he didn't pretend to file them, he went through with his promise to allow the adoption to go ahead, it was only when mini Callie intervened that Robert finally let his true feelings be known to Callie, even though he knew his honesty was the last thing she wanted to hear. I didn't see that scene as him wanting her to make him feel better, I think he was so emotional because he knew he was going to hurt her with what he had to say but he didn't want to lie to her and tell her he'd sign again when he knew he couldn't and, for the moment, wouldn't.

 

In the finale there's another scene where he asks Callie how should they explain to people why they know each other, being respectful of the idea that Callie might not want, and at the time she didn't, people to know he was her father. That was just one of quite a few examples, imo, that showed Robert putting Callie's wants and desires before his own.

 

I think in some ways Robert had been too eager to just give Callie whatever she wanted, even when what she was wanting most was ripping his heart out. He seemed to ignore his own feelings in trying to do the right thing and finally he just couldn't take it anymore, he couldn't keep up the fake facade that he was "ok" with giving his daughter away.

 

What I saw in the finale was a loving father who'd finally reached his breaking point, he could sign her away once but he couldn't find it in his heart to do so again, that's about as human and genuine and parental a reaction that I think the show has allowed a character to express all season.

[Bringonthedrama]

CPP83 makes some good points about Robert's perspective. However, I think it all comes down to his actions, and lack thereof. He has said that his father wanted him to divorce/get an annulment from Colleen and he went along with that - in other words, he abandoned his (pregnant) wife. So, he really only has himself to blame for never knowing he had a daughter on the way. I would be more forgiving if he had said they got married as teenagers, but he was NOT underage. He was a spineless adult. 

 

Then when confronted with the news via abandonment papers, he allows Callie/Stef and Lena's introduction to him to be via attorneys: "Get a DNA test and sign away rights to all the Quinn money." That's pretty cold. Robert's way of "getting to know" Callie in the beginning was to passive-aggressively spy on/chat with her at her job when she didn't know who he was. When she angrily confronted him, he basically said not my fault, I never knew you existed and that wasn't anything against you, it's all legal strategy. Oh, and here's a letter from your little sister you've never met (as my way 'in' to your life). In Callie's place, I wouldn't be jumping at the chance to  be a part of Robert's life either. 

 

I get it, Robert feels like crap because he missed out on 16 years with Callie after walking away from Colleen. He wants to know this bio daughter. Did he sit down and have a talk with Sophia about a healthy way for them to have a relationship with Callie after we saw her say she wanted Callie in their family/home? Obviously not. Sophia intervenes with the abandonment papers, and then Robert says he can't do it again. I absolutely get why Callie interprets it as him saying, "Sophia's right, we can't give you up, we want you, oh and sorry to wreck your happiness - but ours comes first."  This is a man who clearly does not have a healthy and mature way of parenting his younger daughter. It seemed like he has no idea how troubled she is. Then you have Callie, who he understands has had a rough life and is WAY more troubled than Sophia. He is definitely ill-equipped to parent Callie. Robert seems like a nice guy, but lacking the balls to handle parenting like a mature adult - unless the children in question are too young to have emotional needs. He might actually do well with infants. Love is just not enough.