S04.E12: Everyone's Invited

[Gharlane]

Quote

Ethan, Olivia, Micah and Moriah celebrate Ethan's birthday in Jamaica, but the trip takes a turn when Micah and Moriah confront Olivia about her issues with Kim; Barry arranges a river trip and Olivia makes a tough decision.

At last, the season finally! What's the deal with these double-long eps lately? Are they trying to burn these off because the ratings are tanking? 🤷‍♂️

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Gharlane

[Ms.Lulu]

Another tough one to watch.  

• Micah and Moriah drama with Olivia seems manufactured.
• Interesting that Lydia wants to live with her dad and calls out lack of quality time with Kim.  To me she was saying she didn't want to play the role of mother while Kim was out getting her groove on.
• It was good to learn more about the Olivia Kim rift.  I completely buy into the idea that Kim showered her with attention and then dropped her when Olivia set a financial boundary.
  • And the repeat of Olivia filled with evil spirits--for a young person, that is a devastating betrayal that most would never forgive.
• Ethan is a petulant man child and not very interesting.

This seems like a good time for the series to wrap up.

[Gharlane]

So glad my Tuesday nights will be free again! Here are some notes on what I remembered from the senses-shattering "finally":

• I was very suspicious of the kids' trip to the "indigenous" Rastafari village. 🤔
• Did I hear Ethan say that they smoked some pot at the tourist trap, err, "indigenous Rastafari village"? 😏
• At the family meeting, Kim says they haven't decided on their living arranges yet but "accidentally" lets slip that that Barry will be moving out.
• At the family meeting, Lydia said he wanted to live with Barry. Isn't she old enough to be getting her own place to live? 🤔
• Will Olivia and her brother join the family (and Kim)? The suspense is boring me!🙄
• Olivia confided that Kim used Ethan's credit card to buy stuff for herself and got angry when she denied Kim's access to them. WTF? 😲
• The credit card story reminded me that last season, I think, Kim called Olivia "full of the Devil" or something. How come no one remembers this whenever they wonder why Olivia doesn't like Kim? 🤔

[charmed1]

Another boring episode, but I’m now more interested in Olivia’s family. There’s an old video of Olivia’s family where her mother does seem to be sort of detached. But I just attributed that to being nervous on camera. I know that Olivia’s parents are also educated. Her mother was a teacher, her father is a DBA for a software firm. They lived a somewhat normal life and then up and moved the whole family to a farm. I can imagine how disruptive that was to the older children.

The most alarming thing to me was Olivia revealing that Kim used to call and email her every day after they met. She was 16! What does a grown woman with a million kids possibly have to talk about with a 16 year old girl she is not related to?  Did anyone else find this creepy? 

[RedDelicious]

3 hours ago, Gharlane said:

Olivia confided that Kim used Ethan's credit card to buy stuff for herself and got angry when she denied Kim's access to them. WTF? 😲

Not only that, Kim controlled the password to Ethan's credit card account and also did not pay Ethan back for the charges she put on his card. Triple WTF!  They are/were so sheltered from technology that it wouldn't surprise me if Ethan paid his credit card bill by mail with a check, so I can actually see this being possible.

It almost sounds to me like Kim's been leading some form of a double life behind Barry's back for a long time, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

But let's go to Jamaica. First and foremost, Moriah needs to learn how to cut her food into manageable pieces with a knife and fork. Her table manners are atrocious, and the production team kept panning to her wrangling a whole piece of food with her front teeth. It really started grossing me out. Second, I don't think there was any wedding. It was just a mini cast trip. Third, I really hated Micah trying to force a conversation with Olivia on an issue her husband should be trying to work through with her.

Back to Cairo, Lydia saying she would be moving in with Barry gave me the creeps. Lydia gives me the creeps. I think the drama surrounding the tubing trip was manufactured. I still think Olivia's feelings are real, but production is capitalizing on it for storylines and Ethan is having trouble sticking to the script. He is one angry dude and he's only just now discovering how angry he really is and more importantly why. That's going to be a major road block in the Ethan/Olivia relationship and I'm afraid he's just going to take it out on her when it isn't her fault. They really should cut their losses. 

I think Kim is the criminal mastermind here. It's not Barry. I think she had Barry completely buffaloed because he was so enamored of her. He's not an attractive dude and he bagged a pretty, blonde, Florida State party girl. There have been many times where Barry was a complete and total DICK but I think that was the work of Kim's puppet strings. And now the kids are starting to come back around and defend her (Micah, Moriah) and it's bizarre. So bizarre. I think it's time this show ended because we've seen the dark side of it and its no longer entertaining.

[heatherchandler]

2 hours ago, charmed1 said:

The most alarming thing to me was Olivia revealing that Kim used to call and email her every day after they met. She was 16! What does a grown woman with a million kids possibly have to talk about with a 16 year old girl she is not related to?  Did anyone else find this creepy? 

This is so weird!  Not normal at all.

Kim is so awful, she sucks.  Yeah Kim, all moms do that.  They all put their kids before their own needs.  Jesus christ is she kidding??  And guess what, you have to do that for ALL of your kids, not just some.  You are not done being a parent.  Of course, all moms need to do their own thing that makes them happy but she is saying she is over being a mom.  Yeah Kim guess what we all feel that way sometimes, but you can't actually just stop being a mom.  

Edited August 3, 2022 by heatherchandler

[gingerella]

IMO Kim is a piece of shit, and Barry is a stupid moron. But I digress... I suffered through last might episode and it felt like a year since the Max debacle, that's how UNentertaining this season has been. I think we're being duped by this entire family but nit everyone's in on it. I think the little girls aren't in on it and poor Amber, that kid needs to escape - go to college, then move far away. But thenolder kids and parents? I think they make shit up in a collective efforts to keep the TLC gravy train rolling. I think it's all manufactured fake drama at this point.

[RedDelicious]

5 minutes ago, gingerella said:

But thenolder kids and parents? I think they make shit up in a collective efforts to keep the TLC gravy train rolling. I think it's all manufactured fake drama at this point.

I completely agree. They're doing what they need to do to get the paycheck, and they've been steamrolled by Kim for so long that participating in production of the show is just another one of her edicts.

[Notabug]

47 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

This is so weird!  Not normal at all.

Kim is so awful, she sucks.  Yeah Kim, all moms do that.  They all put their kids before their own needs.  Jesus christ is she kidding??  And guess what, you have to do that for ALL of your kids, not just some.  You are not done being a parent.  Of course, all moms need to do their own thing that makes them happy but she is saying she is over being a mom.  Yeah Kim guess what we all feel that way sometimes, but you can't actually just stop being a mom.  

This. If Kim didn't want to spend decades of her life raising kids, then she shouldn't have had so many kids!  It was her choice to have 9 kids, not theirs.  Just because she wants to do what she wants to do doesn't relieve her of the responsibility of raising her last couple.  She acts like she is completely entitled to quit parenting and let Barry, Lydia and Amber take over with the underage kids.  

I wasn't surprised that Lydia wanted to live with Barry, who wouldn't when the other option is Kim?  It seems to me that Lydia has been burdened with the cooking, cleaning, child rearing and homeschooling since Kim decided she was retiring and living with Barry would at least give her another adult willing to pitch in and help.  I don't think Kim has done any cooking or housekeeping in years and we've seen she quit homeschooling the younger kids a while back.  Lydia is creepy, but she's not wrong that Barry is the more involved parent and a better bet for her at this point.

I didn't understand the issue at the rafting.  Olivia and her brother went hours earlier than anyone else for what reason?  When the rest of the family arrived, Olivia and Nathan decided to stay down by the water rather than go up to the picnic area where the rest were preparing the picnic why?  Olivia said she didn't know they weren't going to be spending all their time on the water and therefore it was the family's responsibility to come down to the water to greet her instead?  Her logic is nonexistent.

I did appreciate Olivia giving concrete examples of Kim's treachery.  Kim spent most of the episode telling the audience she worked so hard raising her first batch of kids that she had no time for herself, but. yet, she was texting and calling her son's GF/fiancee/ wife daily?  Talk about grooming.  No surprise at all that Kim started going off the rails once Olivia realized how Kim was using Ethan and put a stop to it.  If she hadn't, I am sure that Kim would still have full access to Ethan's credit card and bank account and he'd be working his tail off to pay the bills.  I think Olivia also gave some insight as to how she was seduced by Kim initially since her own mother was detached and unloving.  And, of course, having been raised in Fundie isolation, Olivia had no friends outside of the family and few examples of good parenting, normal parent-child interaction to compare.  No wonder she bonded with Kim like a homeless puppy and felt so betrayed when Kim turned on her.

I thought Moriah's observation that Kim and Olivia have a lot in common in terms of neediness was spot on.

[Salacious Kitty]

Moriah's talking heads in this episode were far more mature than in all the previous episodes combined. She made quite a few very astute observations. 

[Gharlane]

1 hour ago, RedDelicious said:

Not only that, Kim controlled the password to Ethan's credit card account and also did not pay Ethan back for the charges she put on his card. Triple WTF!  They are/were so sheltered from technology that it wouldn't surprise me if Ethan paid his credit card bill by mail with a check, so I can actually see this being possible.

I was a bit surprised to hear Ethan had a credit card. I figured this "old fashioned" family would only pay for things with cash and checks.

1 hour ago, RedDelicious said:

But let's go to Jamaica. First and foremost, Moriah needs to learn how to cut her food into manageable pieces with a knife and fork. Her table manners are atrocious, and the production team kept panning to her wrangling a whole piece of food with her front teeth. It really started grossing me out. Second, I don't think there was any wedding. It was just a mini cast trip.

I immediately got suspicious when Olivia claimed she was taking Ethan along for a wedding photography job, especially since I didn't see them hauling much luggage into the airport. I noticed Moriah's awkwardly stuffing food into her mouth but thought it was because no one gave them knives. 

1 hour ago, RedDelicious said:

I think Kim is the criminal mastermind here. It's not Barry. I think she had Barry completely buffaloed because he was so enamored of her. He's not an attractive dude and he bagged a pretty, blonde, Florida State party girl.

Please tell me she didn't really attend my college! 😲

3 hours ago, charmed1 said:

Another boring episode, but I’m now more interested in Olivia’s family.

I am curious about Olivia's family, too. Was the footage they showed her mother or Kim and her? 

11 minutes ago, Notabug said:

I wasn't surprised that Lydia wanted to live with Barry, who wouldn't when the other option is Kim?  It seems to me that Lydia has been burdened with the cooking, cleaning, child rearing and homeschooling since Kim decided she was retiring and living with Barry would at least give her another adult willing to pitch in and help.  I don't think Kim has done any cooking or housekeeping in years and we've seen she quit homeschooling the younger kids a while back.  Lydia is creepy, but she's not wrong that Barry is the more involved parent and a better bet for her at this point.

Good point!  I would have thought Lydia would rather have a place of her own than live with her father. 🤷‍♂️

11 minutes ago, Notabug said:

I didn't understand the issue at the rafting.  Olivia and her brother went hours earlier than anyone else for what reason?  When the rest of the family arrived, Olivia and Nathan decided to stay down by the water rather than go up to the picnic area where the rest were preparing the picnic why?  Olivia said she didn't know they weren't going to be spending all their time on the water and therefore it was the family's responsibility to come down to the water to greet her instead?  Her logic is nonexistent.

Yeah, that was either very poorly contrived or no one in this group knows how to communicate. "Why aren't they inviting us to join them?" "Why aren't they joining us?" It was beyond frustrating. 😬

[RedDelicious]

I wonder what Amber does for exercise; if she's in gymnastics or martial arts. She is super fit, not just thin. It almost looked like she and Mercy were practicing stunting in the backyard.

[Notabug]

36 minutes ago, Gharlane said:

 Good point!  I would have thought Lydia would rather have a place of her own than live with her father. 🤷‍♂️

I think Lydia has drunk way too much fundie Kool Aid and wouldn't ever consider living on her own before marriage.  She has a job, but it's pretty basic/started level.  I doubt she makes enough to cover rent anyway.

[bichonblitz]

It makes me sick the way these kids forgive Kim for being such a shitty, disgusting human being. I'm also sick of kids saying they forgive their parents for being assholes just because " Well, she's my mom" or "He's my dad" and I love them. So fucking what? Being a parent doesn't automatically make every awful thing they do forgivable. Did Ethan ever hold Kim accountable for the credit card fraud? Did he make her pay back the money she charged to his card? We will never know. Shame on Micah and Moriah for giving that demented bitch a pass. 

I was surprised at the distance between Olivia and Ethan this episode. Ethan should have driven to rafting with Olivia instead of going with his siblings. Maybe Olivia didn't want to? He totally ignored her down at the water. Maybe there was alot of editing going on there but he could have gone down to the water and asked her to join them all. Instead he ignores her. Nice going, HUSBAND.

They all talk like stepford children. Low, quiet, emotionless monotone voices. Every one of them. So freakin' weird. 

[heatherchandler]

6 hours ago, Notabug said:

I did appreciate Olivia giving concrete examples of Kim's treachery.  Kim spent most of the episode telling the audience she worked so hard raising her first batch of kids that she had no time for herself, but. yet, she was texting and calling her son's GF/fiancee/ wife daily?  Talk about grooming.  No surprise at all that Kim started going off the rails once Olivia realized how Kim was using Ethan and put a stop to it.  If she hadn't, I am sure that Kim would still have full access to Ethan's credit card and bank account and he'd be working his tail off to pay the bills.  

I am relatively new to this (shit)show, so I am wondering if there are some bankruptcies in Kim's & Barry's past?  Why would a mother need to use her son's credit card?    

Also what does Barry do for a living?  

Edited August 3, 2022 by heatherchandler

[bichonblitz]

11 minutes ago, Notabug said:

I think Lydia has drunk way too much fundie Kool Aid and wouldn't ever consider living on her own before marriage.  She has a job, but it's pretty basic/started level.  I doubt she makes enough to cover rent anyway.

Doesn't she work in a bank as a teller or something? Only entry level money but she also has TLC money and she cleans their rental homes, too. She could afford to live on her own. Rent in Cairo can't be very expensive. I think she feels sorry for Barry and wants to keep him company until she feels he's capable of being on his own. Not her responsibility but nice of her anyway. 

[Fouts]

Kim shows classic signs of narcissistic personality disorder, something that is nearly impossible to overcome.  Those close to her will forever experience her lying, manipulation and controlling behavior.  The greatest fear of a narcissist is a person who has them figured out.  In this case, it's Olivia.  

Therapists that understand narcissism will almost always advise the victims to simply stay away as much as possible from their abuser.  That is exactly what Olivia has been attempting to do.  But she'd been essentially deceived into attending the graveside visit with the last-minute news of Kim's presence.  I think her reaction was real and trauma-based.  

I think the family is currently traumatized by the parents' divorce.  You'll notice that the kids rarely want to discuss it and ask few questions for something that makes little sense to them or to us as the audience.  Instead of dealing with that, the family is punishing Olivia as a convenient distraction and scapegoat.  

I was particularly disgusted by Micah's sneering demand that Olivia basically just suck up all her trauma and white-wash Kim's emotional abuse to everyone so they could all pretend nothing was wrong.  Even more horrible was Ethan's nasty digs at his wife to his siblings and his total disregard for Olivia's mental health and well-being.  What kind of husband does that?

I was sickened that the siblings essentially forced Olivia into some apologies for her very reasonable need to protect herself from Kim.  Then when she did show up at events to try to appease them, they were nothing but critical of her doing the best she could under the circumstances.  Olivia was damned if she did and damned if she didn't.  

In the meantime, Kim was loving how the heat had been largely removed from her and Olivia had been forced into saying hello back to her in front of the entire family.  

If I were Olivia's friend, I would tell her to get away from these people as soon as possible.  They are either sociopathic (Kim) or currently so damaged that they are unsafe to be around.  I can't imagine how alone she must feel.  

I've also seen when the scapegoat of a narcissist leaves the picture, the dynamic changes such that the narcissist gets more fully exposed.  This is usually what it takes to have everyone else's eyes opened to the evil that is the narcissist.  And if these other people have any awareness about themselves at all, they are horrified and embarrassed looking back at how they supported the narcissist in their endeavors.  

[Notabug]

47 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

Doesn't she work in a bank as a teller or something? Only entry level money but she also has TLC money and she cleans their rental homes, too. She could afford to live on her own. Rent in Cairo can't be very expensive. I think she feels sorry for Barry and wants to keep him company until she feels he's capable of being on his own. Not her responsibility but nice of her anyway. 

That presumes that Lydia has a separate contract with TLC and is paid apart from the money that her parents receive.  We know that is not what happened with the Duggars and why Jill had to threaten her father with lawyers to get her share of the money he'd pocketed on her behalf, even though she was married with a kid.  Jim Bob formed an LLC which negotiated with TLC for the entire family, including the adult children and the producers paid all monies owed the Duggar clan to the LLC.  Jim Bob was then supposed to distribute it to his kids, but, he didn't always do that, or he didn't do it fairly.  Hence Jill was able to sue him and reach a settlement.

Based on the fact that Kim used her adult married son's credit card to purchase things for herself and then let him pay the bills and had a big meltdown when her DIL stopped her from doing it; I think it is a pretty safe bet that Kim and Barry controlled the pursestrings on the TV money at least until Ethan and Olivia got married and Moriah and Micah broke away.  Lydia is the sort who would be obedient to Mommy and Daddy and not expect any TV money unless they chose to give it to her.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Notabug

[Notabug]

55 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

I am relatively new to this (shit)show, so I am wondering if there are some bancruptcies in Kim's & Barry's past?  Why would a mother need to use her son's credit card?    

Also what does Barry do for a living?  

Barry works as a transportation planner for a private company and has been there 25 years or so.  He also did a little bit of farming in the past and the whole family used to perform musically at various Christian churches and events.  Not sure that either of those were big moneymakers though. The Plaths also get some rental income from their farm which looks to be used as an AirBnB.

Kim touts herself as a naturopathic 'doctor' but doesn't have any real medical training or a degree.  It also doesn't seem like she works at it very hard nor gets any real income from it.

I don't know if they have had a history of bankruptcy, but Kim hasn't worked at an actual paying job since they had kids 20+ years ago.  It seems that the average transportation planner gets around $65,000 a year in salary which isn't much with 9 kids.  I think Olivia said specifically that Kim bought stuff for herself with Ethan's credit card which is probably how she stretched the family budget while keeping a good supply of lip gloss on hand.

[Shelbie]

I think Moriah and Micah were really pissed off that Olivia refused to just shove all her feelings down deep and pretend Kim was changed and that everything was going to be fine. Olivia has every right to be to hold Kim at arms length and I think she is right to do it. The whole family is too enmeshed but Olivia seems to be the only one who understands boundaries.
Lydia is not my favourite but she needs to get out now and find her own life or she will be stuck taking care of her siblings for ages.

[RedDelicious]

28 minutes ago, Notabug said:

Kim touts herself as a naturopathic 'doctor' but doesn't have any real medical training or a degree.  It also doesn't seem like she works at it very hard nor gets any real income from it.

Can we just go ahead and teleport her back to 1600s Massachusetts?

[Back Atcha]

15 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

  45 minutes ago, Notabug said:

Kim touts herself as a naturopathic 'doctor' but doesn't have any real medical training or a degree.  It also doesn't seem like she works at it very hard nor gets any real income from it.

Doesn't seem like she works very hard at anything.  In the earlier episodes, older girls were cooking AND helping with "homeschooling."  She's going to scam herself back into the house and her kids' hearts.  Poor Barry.

[applewood]

3 hours ago, Notabug said:

This. If Kim didn't want to spend decades of her life raising kids, then she shouldn't have had so many kids!  It was her choice to have 9 kids, not theirs.  Just because she wants to do what she wants to do doesn't relieve her of the responsibility of raising her last couple.  She acts like she is completely entitled to quit parenting and let Barry, Lydia and Amber take over with the underage kids.  

I wasn't surprised that Lydia wanted to live with Barry, who wouldn't when the other option is Kim?  It seems to me that Lydia has been burdened with the cooking, cleaning, child rearing and homeschooling since Kim decided she was retiring and living with Barry would at least give her another adult willing to pitch in and help.  I don't think Kim has done any cooking or housekeeping in years and we've seen she quit homeschooling the younger kids a while back.  Lydia is creepy, but she's not wrong that Barry is the more involved parent and a better bet for her at this point.

I was thinking the same thing. She wants to live with Barry because she knows that Kim would saddle her with all of the homeschooling and housework. Perhaps also she feels a little sorry for Barry and thinks he would appreciate some company right now. I could see her living with him for a year or so and then moving in with some friends. Weren't her "church friends asking her to live with them?

Also, I wonder if Isaac  would want to live with his father also because he would be the only boy left at Kim's house.

[Back Atcha]

46 minutes ago, Shelbie said:

I think Moriah and Micah were really pissed off that Olivia refused to just shove all her feelings down deep and pretend Kim was changed and that everything was going to be fine.

They actually speak as if they are capable of critical thinking.  Have they NOT watched all the episodes of their show?  Haven't they seen (in person and on TV) their mother be unfair and cruel to Olivia?  We all have!  SEE BELOW!

6 hours ago, charmed1 said:

The most alarming thing to me was Olivia revealing that Kim used to call and email her every day after they met. She was 16! What does a grown woman with a million kids possibly have to talk about with a 16 year old girl she is not related to?  Did anyone else find this creepy? 

8 hours ago, Gharlane said:

The credit card story reminded me that last season, I think, Kim called Olivia "full of the Devil" or something. How come no one remembers this whenever they wonder why Olivia doesn't like Kim? 🤔

[Back Atcha]

2 hours ago, Gharlane said:

I was a bit surprised to hear Ethan had a credit card. I figured this "old fashioned" family would only pay for things with cash and checks.

Kim probably opened a credit card in Ethan's name...controlled that account AND his checking account.  I doubt if any other family member (Barry) was even aware. Then Olivia married Ethan and assumed HE would be controlling his own accounts.  What a concept!!!  Of course, because he had no idea how to handle "accounts," Olivia had to step in and take Mommy's place.

No wonder Ethan's an Angry Man...torn between two mommies.

[Suzee2]

Quote

   3 HOURS AGO, NOTABUG SAID:

I didn't understand the issue at the rafting.  Olivia and her brother went hours earlier than anyone else for what reason?  When the rest of the family arrived, Olivia and Nathan decided to stay down by the water rather than go up to the picnic area where the rest were preparing the picnic why?  Olivia said she didn't know they weren't going to be spending all their time on the water and therefore it was the family's responsibility to come down to the water to greet her instead?  Her logic is nonexistent.

Quote

Yeah, that was either very poorly contrived or no one in this group knows how to communicate. "Why aren't they inviting us to join them?" "Why aren't they joining us?" It was beyond frustrating

Olivia and her brother made the choice to leave 2 hours earlier than Ethan and his siblings, not telling them she intended to do that. She even mentioned walking by Micah as he slept so she didn't want them to know she was leaving. Why be sneaky about it? I understand that she may have wanted to leave the picnic earlier than the others so traveling separately made sense, but I don't understand why she couldn't have traveled separately and left at the same time as Ethan et al. Then, whining that the family didn't ask her to join them when they arrived at the picnic site, as if she was incapable of simply walking up the trail to meet them herself. Her "poor me", whiny complaining made me want to throw something at the TV. Gah! Olivia was told repeatedly by Ethan, Micah and Moriah that they would understand if she didn't want to come so she made the choice to be there, no one forced her. I thought her behavior was very passive-aggressive in that situation.

[Back Atcha]

2 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

I am relatively new to this (shit)show, so I am wondering if there are some bancruptcies in Kim's & Barry's past?  Why would a mother need to use her son's credit card?    

Probably to keep ALL of her little secrets.  Things she buys behind everyone's back.  Supplies and "outfits" for her dance studio?  Did Ethan even KNOW he had a credit card?  She has access to lots of little victims...who didn't have Social Security numbers until TLC came along (those without SS numbers cannot be paid).  Now that they have Social Security numbers, who knows how many credit cards are out there in her kids' names.  Who knows whose credit she's ruining?  Not even The Shadow.

[charmed1]

Kim goes back and forth between telling the kids “we’re still friends!” then telling Lydia she can’t stand to be in the same house as Barry. That whole group conversation in the living room was pointless. The kids had valid questions and all Kim could say is “we don’t know yet.” So why haul them in there and embarrass them like that? Kim seemed like she was saying all the things she thought she should say from watching an episode of Family Ties or something.

[Back Atcha]

3 minutes ago, charmed1 said:

The kids had valid questions and all Kim could say is “we don’t know yet.”

aka "We don't know yet, but I'll be living in the house and Submissive Barry will have to find another place."

Didn't she tell us she was TIRED of raising kids?  Does she remember there are still LOTSA KIDS left in that house?

[maxmama]

If Kim is such a changed person, why isn’t she initiating a conversation with Olivia, acknowledging and apologizing for her past actions?  Wouldn’t that go a long way toward starting to heal the rift here?  Why aren’t her kids, who seem to be full of wisdom about what Olivia needs to do, encouraging their mother to take some responsibility and figure out how to heal this family crisis?  Ethan in particular, who seems to not have an iota of compassion or any support to offer his own wife,  should be hammering his mother with that proposal.  Kim seems oddly detached from the needs and concerns of others, including her own children.  I agree with another poster upthread who said Kim has probably been up to stuff behind the scenes for a long time.  Her “pursuit” of Olivia when she was a teenager is disturbing, and using her oldest son for money behind his back is despicable.  Micah and Moriah distanced themselves for a long time, too, but now they are Kim’s adoring supporters.  Ethan disgusts me with his arrogant and disdainful dismissal of his own wife’s feelings with his “I don’t cares”, etc.  while Olivia is struggling with this.  This stuff takes time, and doing it in front of cameras is even harder.  

[Fouts]

Barry doesn't realize it quite yet, but pretty soon the guy's going to be living his best life, a life removed from the daily toxicity that is Kim.  

Quiverfull patriarchal families like the Plaths spout father-control, but commonly the real power lies with the mother.  The mom, often with a somewhat unstable past full of regretted behaviors, convinces the dad of the need to raise their kids in these ultra-sheltered environments.  Instead of working on fixing their own traumas, they perpetuate their own issues with their children by over-controlling their every move. 

But as the kids reach adulthood, the uglier consequences emerge.  The kids recognize how ill-prepared they are for the real world, they become angry, and the entire scheme starts to unravel and implode.  The mom can't accept any responsibility for the their child-raising choices so they blame the dad, who really had just been lead around by the neck, just as we heard Ethan once say. 

Barry is far from perfect--we just have to recall his push to Olivia's car down the driveway that time despite Ethan's plea he not do so.  But overall I think the guy has a kind soul and a loving heart.  And while he's no looker, he actually could be sufficiently desirable in other ways to attract nice single women of his age and demographic.  

Barry expressed concern at how hard it will be to see Kim connect with another man, certain she'd be quickly snatched up when she hits the market.  In the end, I suspect Barry may actually be the one getting more attention from the opposite sex than Kim.  And I can't imagine Kim enjoying watching that.  She may the one suffering with the green-eye when this is all said and done.  

[Fouts]

4 minutes ago, maxmama said:

If Kim is such a changed person, why isn’t she initiating a conversation with Olivia, acknowledging and apologizing for her past actions?  Wouldn’t that go a long way toward starting to heal the rift here?  Why aren’t her kids, who seem to be full of wisdom about what Olivia needs to do, encouraging their mother to take some responsibility and figure out how to heal this family crisis?  Ethan in particular, who seems to not have an iota of compassion or any support to offer his own wife,  should be hammering his mother with that proposal.  Kim seems oddly detached from the needs and concerns of others, including her own children.  I agree with another poster upthread who said Kim has probably been up to stuff behind the scenes for a long time.  Her “pursuit” of Olivia when she was a teenager is disturbing, and using her oldest son for money behind his back is despicable.  Micah and Moriah distanced themselves for a long time, too, but now they are Kim’s adoring supporters.  Ethan disgusts me with his arrogant and disdainful dismissal of his own wife’s feelings with his “I don’t cares”, etc.  while Olivia is struggling with this.  This stuff takes time, and doing it in front of cameras is even harder.  

Kim absolutely should apologize, but she will never give anything more to that than lip-service like "I'm sorry you feel that way."  People with narcissistic personality disorder find it almost impossible to truly apologize.  Their egos would never allow it, plus they never could actually admit to themselves they were wrong.  

[RedDelicious]

54 minutes ago, Suzee2 said:

but I don't understand why she couldn't have traveled separately and left at the same time as Ethan et al.

Because that wasn't production's lead-in to the storyline. 

[heatherchandler]

3 hours ago, Notabug said:

Barry works as a transportation planner for a private company and has been there 25 years or so.  He also did a little bit of farming in the past and the whole family used to perform musically at various Christian churches and events.  Not sure that either of those were big moneymakers though. The Plaths also get some rental income from their farm which looks to be used as an AirBnB.

Kim touts herself as a naturopathic 'doctor' but doesn't have any real medical training or a degree.  It also doesn't seem like she works at it very hard nor gets any real income from it.

I don't know if they have had a history of bankruptcy, but Kim hasn't worked at an actual paying job since they had kids 20+ years ago.  It seems that the average transportation planner gets around $65,000 a year in salary which isn't much with 9 kids.  I think Olivia said specifically that Kim bought stuff for herself with Ethan's credit card which is probably how she stretched the family budget while keeping a good supply of lip gloss on hand.

I thought Kim was a dance teacher, or a former dancer?  Why does she have a dance studio?

$65,000??  How would a family of 11 people survive on this?  

2 hours ago, Fouts said:

Barry expressed concern at how hard it will be to see Kim connect with another man, certain she'd be quickly snatched up when she hits the market.  In the end, I suspect Barry may actually be the one getting more attention from the opposite sex than Kim.  And I can't imagine Kim enjoying watching that.  She may the one suffering with the green-eye when this is all said and done.  

HAHAHA he probably does think that.  

[albarino]

That was A LOT!  

1.  Moriah--Shut up.  I don't care that you are over the Olivia/Kim feud.  I'm over you being, well, you.  Why not move out and be a big girl?  Hold a real job for ten minutes.

2.  Micah--Shut up.  Go back to California or drink shots with your mother or something.  You're on a vacation thanks to Olivia and you dare to play the elder statesman regarding the rift between Kim and Olivia?  Yeah, keep modeling; you're probably good at that.

3.  Olivia--Time to pack up and go.  You've given this marriage your best shot.  You will appreciate yourself and your efforts with some time and distance.  Please understand both the words DO and IT.  DO IT.  Ethan is gonna be Ethan.  The Plaths will be the Plaths.  Move on.

4.  Kim--You are repulsive.  *Corny Alert*. You have been given the gift of being a mother and this is how you nurture and grow your gift?!?  Abandoning half of your children because you aren't fulfilled or some sort of claptrap?  I really have no words.

5.  Lidia--Some day you will understand how terrible a mother you have.  Perhaps it will be when you become a mother and your blood will run cold.   Please insist all of the younger children are enrolled in a public school while you are still there.  Then run.

Edited August 4, 2022 by albarino

[Cancun]

You all have pretty much captured my thoughts, but i have one thing to add…ALLIGATORS!  All I could think of when they started tubing on the “wilder” portion of the river - watch out for gators!!  The spring pool was really pretty and I’ve read that the alligators in that park generally don’t cause problems, I just know I would not be able to relax and enjoy the float.

[Back Atcha]

9 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

I thought Kim was a dance teacher, or a former dancer?  Why does she have a dance studio?

Kim imagined herself a dancer, so she "taught" her children. 

• She bought/created a dance studio because she's KIM! 
• Whatever Kim wants, she demands...and gets! 
• I hope she also GETS her comeuppance...sooner rather than later.
• NOTE:  If I were "fat-shaming," I'd begin with myself at 200lbs+

[Gharlane]

19 hours ago, Notabug said:

Barry works as a transportation planner for a private company and has been there 25 years or so.  He also did a little bit of farming in the past and the whole family used to perform musically at various Christian churches and events. 

I think I read somewhere that he works in Tallahassee, which is a bit of a commute. 

19 hours ago, Notabug said:

Kim touts herself as a naturopathic 'doctor' but doesn't have any real medical training or a degree.

This is the first I heard about it! Of course, she sells snake oil.

15 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

I thought Kim was a dance teacher, or a former dancer?  Why does she have a dance studio?

5 hours ago, Back Atcha said:

Kim imagined herself a dancer, so she "taught" her children. 

I thought she took classes as a child but decided it was too sinful for her daughters.

The footage of them dancing was awkward, so I don't know how many lessons Kim took or how she is qualified to teach it.

[Back Atcha]

1 hour ago, Gharlane said:

20 hours ago, Notabug said:

Kim touts herself as a naturopathic 'doctor' but doesn't have any real medical training or a degree.

This is the first I heard about it! Of course, she sells snake oil.

Gharlane, Not sure, but I thought she mentioned (or maybe one of the kids did) on an early episode that she was a "doctor."  Here's an online article from May 2021...something called "The List."  (Posters, did we see Kim driving to see one of her "patients"?)

As Soap Dirt notes, in Kim Plath's self-published parenting guide, "Intuitive Motherhood — Trusting Your Body's Wisdom for Birth and Beyond," released in 2013, she discusses how her 10 children (Joshua Plath perished in a tragic accident) were birthed at home and cared for throughout their lives without Western medicine. This isn't something that's covered on "Welcome to Plathville," but it did come up when stories emerged about how many of the Plath kids didn't have birth certificates as a result of their home delivery. Kim claims she kept her children safe from common colds, influenza, and other mild illnesses through her own naturopathic remedies, and encouraged readers to do likewise. 

As Screen Rant notes, Plath is a self-described "naturopathic doctor," per the family's official website (which has since been deleted) and her bios elsewhere. Such practitioners typically "use natural remedies such as herbs and massages to treat certain ailments." However, as Naturopathic Diaries notes, naturopaths are neither registered nor licensed to practice in Georgia and, more pressingly, are not legally permitted to term themselves doctors either. The "Welcome to Plathville" star could therefore be breaking the law by proclaiming herself a doctor and seeking to provide advice, or medical services of any kind, in her home state. It remains to be seen whether this will be tackled on subsequent seasons of the show.

[TexasGal]

Ok Ethan, yes go live in the garage in Cairo by yourself.  How long are they going to expect us to believe this storyline?  Either he and Olivia only play married during filming, or the DRAH-MA is amped up and not real.  Either way, I don't care anymore.

And, how could we not be shown him scraping his nose in Jamaica?  C'mon!  That had to be hilarious!

[applewood]

Wouldn't it really pi** Kim off if Barry bought a house nearby, and Lydia and maybe Isaac move in, the little girls visit on the weekends, maybe Moriah and Ethan too and his house becomes "the fun house" to hang out in.  The little girls start saying. "Uggh. We have have to go back to Mom's house tomorrow."  Maybe dad will even let them drink soda. horrors!

[FizzyPuff]

On 8/3/2022 at 6:31 PM, Notabug said:

I think Lydia has drunk way too much fundie Kool Aid and wouldn't ever consider living on her own before marriage.  She has a job, but it's pretty basic/started level.  I doubt she makes enough to cover rent anyway.

I like Lydia but boy is she brainwashed, I really believe she is Kim’s punishment now for raising her kids in a cult. I hope she drives Kim mad with her God talk. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by FizzyPuff

[Tallygirl]

On 8/3/2022 at 1:46 PM, heatherchandler said:

Also what does Barry do for a living?  

His office in Tallahassee is about 10 mins from me, I keep thinking I’ll run into him at Publix or Subway or somewhere nearby. Have not in all these years. It’s about 40-45 mins drive from his house in Cairo to work. He could get something closer since it seems he is to move out. 
 

I think Kim went to FSU, my alma mater, not sure if she graduated. Ethan’s first football game to attend was an FSU game.  
 

I don’t think we get the entire story or sides in any of this. TLC edits how they want to.  I can actually side with Moriah in that everything’s not about Olivia. If she is not comfortable, don’t go.  Moriah seemed more mature than Olivia last night to me. I’m tired of Olivia, the victim 24/7. She doesn’t communicate with Ethan when she should either. 
 

I haven’t found a divorce online yet, or any new properties in the 3 counties I checked earlier this week. 

[Salacious Kitty]

Olivia tries to communicate with Ethan, but 9 times out of 10, he shuts her down. I can see why she's on the verge of throwing in the towel. 

When your husband responds "I don't care" when asked where his wife would live if he lived at the shop, it's evident there's a huge problem in their marriage. 

[Tallygirl]

2 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Olivia tries to communicate with Ethan, but 9 times out of 10, he shuts her down. I can see why she's on the verge of throwing in the towel. 

When your husband responds "I don't care" when asked where his wife would live if he lived at the shop, it's evident there's a huge problem in their marriage. 

They have been traveling around Europe together the last two months. 

[Salacious Kitty]

19 minutes ago, Tallygirl said:

They have been traveling around Europe together the last two months. 

Olivia will put up with him as long as there's a check from TLC involved. I also heard they moved to Tallahassee. 

[Tallygirl]

1 hour ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Olivia will put up with him as long as there's a check from TLC involved. I also heard they moved to Tallahassee. 

I’ll keep my eye out for them.  If true, they must be renting. Not in property appraiser site at this point. 

[Salacious Kitty]

1 minute ago, Tallygirl said:

I’ll keep my eye out for them.  If true, they must be renting. Not in property appraiser site at this point. 

Olivia made an odd comment in the episode about moving every year. It was obvious that Tampa didn't work out. Maybe Ethan will be happier closer to his beloved cars in Cairo. Does he have a paying job yet? At least Olivia is still doing destination weddings.

[Notabug]

1 hour ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Olivia made an odd comment in the episode about moving every year. It was obvious that Tampa didn't work out. Maybe Ethan will be happier closer to his beloved cars in Cairo. Does he have a paying job yet? At least Olivia is still doing destination weddings.

Ethan probably makes the bulk of his income from TLC for the show.  For that matter, Olivia probably does, too.  There cannot be that big a market for a 'destination wedding photographer'.  I'm not sure why anyone would hire her instead of someone local at the site of the wedding.  I presume Olivia includes the cost of her travel and lodging in her prices which is going to make her significantly more expensive than a local. I've been to multiple destination weddings and none of them imported the photographer from elsewhere.  The venues usually had a list of local vendors that the couple could choose from and they could go online to see samples of the photographer's work and negotiate from there.

[Salacious Kitty]

My point was that Ethan isn't even pretending to have a real job. He's totally reliant on the TLC check. At least Olivia has a business that can actually be worked into filming, as we saw with the Jamaica trip. 

Ethan isn't the only guilty party here. Moriah worked at a gym in Cairo when she and Micah were roomies. Has she had a job since? All credit to Micah. He seems to be a hard worker. Same goes to Lydia and Isaac who are holding down full time jobs.