S06.E10: Nippy

[SimplexFish]

21 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

Here is a pretty good analysis of the episode.  He makes some observations that match mine.  

He also has good reviews of Platoon and Full Metal Jacket, for those who like war movies.  

Def some good observations there, thanks.

BTW loved Full Metal Jacket, well at least the first half of it. 

[Penman61]

29 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I was wondering about the opening title sequence, which he touches on. Thruout the series, the video becomes more degraded, perhaps because of Gene watching them over and over. But as we see with this ep, the tape finally breaks down. What do you all make o this?

I read it as ending a chapter in the story (or even an end to the story), and now we’re in a new, final chapter (or perhaps an epilogue). I’m expecting the final three title sequences to be something new.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Penman61

[millennium]

I hate "The Fly."  Skip it whenever I rewatch Breaking Bad.   Leave it to Vince Gilligan to find a devious way to make me watch it again.  In black and white.

[BC4ME]

3 hours ago, millennium said:

I hate "The Fly."  Skip it whenever I rewatch Breaking Bad.   Leave it to Vince Gilligan to find a devious way to make me watch it again.  In black and white.

I hated the Fly. I've probably watched BB five times at least but only managed to watch The Fly once. And I struggled through it even once. I thought this episode of BCS was good though. I feel like it might become even better for me after I know where things are going. 

[PeterPirate]

26 minutes ago, BC4ME said:

I hated the Fly. I've probably watched BB five times at least but only managed to watch The Fly once. And I struggled through it even once. I thought this episode of BCS was good though. I feel like it might become even better for me after I know where things are going. 

Same.  I think I've watched The Fly twice.  As I remember it did not advance the story line.  In this episode we saw the old Saul Goodman re-emerge, at least temporarily.    

Plus there was Carol Burnett.

[millennium]

23 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

Same.  I think I've watched The Fly twice.  As I remember it did not advance the story line.  In this episode we saw the old Saul Goodman re-emerge, at least temporarily.    

Plus there was Carol Burnett.

Maybe I'm an outlier, but I haven't gone all these years thinking "I really miss Carol Burnett and her special brand of slapstick comedy.  I hope they cast her in one of my favorite crime dramas and especially in one of the final episodes."

Fingers crossed they'll bring in Donny and Marie before it's over.

[PeterPirate]

17 minutes ago, millennium said:

Maybe I'm an outlier, but I haven't gone all these years thinking "I really miss Carol Burnett and her special brand of slapstick comedy.  I hope they cast her in one of my favorite crime dramas and especially in one of the final episodes."

Well, at least we have that in common.  

[Penman61]

I think it's certainly open to debate whether bringing a showbiz icon most known for her zaniness into the cast of a prestige TV tragicomedy is too distracting. Specifics matter.

In this case, a few things:

• A surprisingly (to me) sizable proportion of the BCS audience have no direct memory of Carol Burnett, whose most successful show went off the air in 1978, when Rhea Seehorn was 6 years old. Today the Onetake podcast co-host said he had no idea who Carol Burnett was. Many of us might have some very strong (and very pleasurable) memories of her, but many watching this show might not.
• I was personally a huge fan of The Carol Burnett Show, but I also know of other dramatic roles--some quite dark--that she's played since then. When I heard she was cast on BCS, I didn't expect slapstick or curtain-rod dresses; all I really expected is that she'd play someone canny, someone who doesn't miss things. Just Burnett's vibe, for me, as she's aged.
• I'll try not to make this sound gross, but old actors--especially older women--need work, too. I presume Burnett doesn't need the money, but I'd think she'd enjoy the work, and I assume offers are few and far between for even her. I mean I know, on one level, that's not an audience's concern, really; but on the other, ageism and misogyny are real.

In any case, I hope we see more of her in this final stretch. :)

[scenario]

44 minutes ago, millennium said:

Maybe I'm an outlier, but I haven't gone all these years thinking "I really miss Carol Burnett and her special brand of slapstick comedy.  I hope they cast her in one of my favorite crime dramas and especially in one of the final episodes."

Fingers crossed they'll bring in Donny and Marie before it's over.

The only thing I cared about is was the part appropriate for her? I think she did well in the part. It's not that big a deal. 

[Simon Boccanegra]

It's a small point, but then, flies are small. The BB episode was just "Fly." 

"The Fly" is the horror movie with Jeff Goldblum (or Vincent Price). Or the U2 song from Achtung Baby.

Re: Carol Burnett. It's like when I see Albert Brooks playing a gangster (Drive) or an attorney (A Most Violent Year). I'm not expecting him at any moment to go into the West Coast Woody shtick for which he is most famous, because he's a solid character actor apart from that.

I think they just wrote a part for a woman of a certain age, Burnett was right for it, and she agreed to do it. Marion could have been played by some other actress in her eighties who has a lower profile or is more known for drama, but Burnett's performance was quite good, and that's what matters most to me. I believed she was this woman in Omaha with a son who drives a cab. 

[scenario]

2 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

I think it's certainly open to debate whether bringing a showbiz icon most known for her zaniness into the cast of a prestige TV tragicomedy is too distracting. Specifics matter.

In this case, a few things:

• A surprisingly (to me) sizable proportion of the BCS audience have no direct memory of Carol Burnett, whose most successful show went off the air in 1978, when Rhea Seehorn was 6 years old. Today the Onetake podcast co-host said he had no idea who Carol Burnett was. Many of us might have some very strong (and very pleasurable) memories of her, but many watching this show might not.
• I was personally a huge fan of The Carol Burnett Show, but I also know of other dramatic roles--some quite dark--that she's played since then. When I heard she was cast on BCS, I didn't expect slapstick or curtain-rod dresses; all I really expected is that she'd play someone canny, someone who doesn't miss things. Just Burnett's vibe, for me, as she's aged.
• I'll try not to make this sound gross, but old actors--especially older women--need work, too. I presume Burnett doesn't need the money, but I'd think she'd enjoy the work, and I assume offers are few and far between for even her. I mean I know, on one level, that's not an audience's concern, really; but on the other, ageism and misogyny are real.

In any case, I hope we see more of her in this final stretch. :)

There are a lot of people who have some type of line. Once your older than that, they have no use for you. I don't really get it. Making a big deal about it also didn't make any sense. She had a small part which she did pretty well in. That's all. 

[peeayebee]

I think she did really well, and I expect to see her in at least one more ep.

I admit it's disconcerting when I'm reminded that my cultural icons are unknown to the youths of today. Recently I spoke with a store clerk who didn't know who Alan Alda was and had never heard of M*A*S*H*. <sigh> But that's just how time flies, so to speak. 

I have such affection for Carol Burnett. I absolutely loved her show and admire her greatly. I've also enjoyed reading about how everyone on BCS was so thrilled to meet her and work with her, and that she did not disappoint in the least.

[SimplexFish]

1 hour ago, Simon Boccanegra said:

Re: Carol Burnett. It's like when I see Albert Brooks playing a gangster (Drive) or an attorney (A Most Violent Year). I'm not expecting him at any moment to go into the West Coast Woody shtick for which he is most famous, because he's a solid character actor apart from that.

I think they just wrote a part for a woman of a certain age, Burnett was right for it, and she agreed to do it. Marion could have been played by some other actress in her eighties who has a lower profile or is more known for drama, but Burnett's performance was quite good, and that's what matters most to me. I believed she was this woman in Omaha with a son who drives a cab. 

I think Shirley MacLaine would have killed it as Marion...

Edited July 30, 2022 by SimplexFish

[scenario]

20 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I think she did really well, and I expect to see her in at least one more ep.

I admit it's disconcerting when I'm reminded that my cultural icons are unknown to the youths of today. Recently I spoke with a store clerk who didn't know who Alan Alda was and had never heard of M*A*S*H*. <sigh> But that's just how time flies, so to speak. 

I have such affection for Carol Burnett. I absolutely loved her show and admire her greatly. I've also enjoyed reading about how everyone on BCS was so thrilled to meet her and work with her, and that she did not disappoint in the least.

World's changed. When I was a kid there were three tv networks and no internet. Even if you didn't watch a show you knew it existed. 

Now there are hundreds of channels with streaming and all. No one knows all the shows that are on. If you asked a hundred kids who their to 5 favorite celebrity were you'd get a hundred different lists. 

There's probably a hundred movie stars famous from before I was born who I know the name but I don't have a clue what they look like now. 

There is nothing that everyone watches. It's not good or bad its just different. 

[sistermagpie]

20 minutes ago, SimplexFish said:

I think Shirley MacLaine would have killed it as Marion...

She's killing it on Only Murders in the Building instead.

[Constantinople]

3 hours ago, Penman61 said:

A surprisingly (to me) sizable proportion of the BCS audience have no direct memory of Carol Burnett, whose most successful show went off the air in 1978

That reminds me of the high school auditorium scene after Wayfarer 515, which I still think is one of the funniest scenes in Breaking Bad ("Okay, can we just keep it secular, honey?"). Walt starts rambling about how fortunate it is so few people died, then says

Quote

There are, in truth 53 crashes throughout history that are just as bad or worse.

Tenerife. Has anybody? Anybody hear of Tenerife?

No?

In 1977, two fully loaded 747s crashed into each other on Tenerife. Does anybody know how big a 747 is? I mean, it's way bigger than a 737, and we're talking about two of them. Nearly 600 people died on Tenerife.

But do any of you even remember it at all? Any of you? I doubt it. You know why? It's because people move on. They just move on.

He 's asking a bunch of high school students, the oldest of whom were born almost 15 years after Tenerife, if they remember it.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Constantinople

[Lalo Lives]

Interesting and valid points re:  Carol Burnett, age, audience knowledge due to time, etc.

I suspect (think, hope?) that there will be more to her character. She may have been duped by Gene early on, but a Mama Bear has pretty good instincts. She may sniff out something that could prove problematic for Gene.

[ShadowFacts]

4 minutes ago, Lalo Lives said:

Interesting and valid points re:  Carol Burnett, age, audience knowledge due to time, etc.

I suspect (think, hope?) that there will be more to her character. She may have been duped by Gene early on, but a Mama Bear has pretty good instincts. She may sniff out something that could prove problematic for Gene.

I fully believe she has more to do. Why bring in a new character at the end of a run unless they have a meaningful part to play? The writing didn't need to include Jeffy's mother and some implied threat to her. His end game of pulling the caper and supposed mutually assured destruction didn't require that. That's why they didn't cast an unknown, this will be a memorable end to Gene of some kind and it called for a special actor of some kind.

[peeayebee]

9 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

She's killing it on Only Murders in the Building instead.

Perhaps literally.

[scenario]

3 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I fully believe she has more to do. Why bring in a new character at the end of a run unless they have a meaningful part to play? The writing didn't need to include Jeffy's mother and some implied threat to her. His end game of pulling the caper and supposed mutually assured destruction didn't require that. That's why they didn't cast an unknown, this will be a memorable end to Gene of some kind and it called for a special actor of some kind.

Once they went to the Gene era, all of the BCS and BB characters where gone. An episode with only Gene and Jeffy and a bunch of unnamed walk on actors would be boring. You need a few more named characters to add to the story. Jeffy's mom is a bit character. 

[Andre LaPlume]

I think Jeff’s mother was important because it put Gene back in control of the dynamic with Jeff 

[wendyg]

Agree with Penman61: Burnett has done dramatic roles all the back to the 1970s, though I think she had to learn to adapt to doing it. (Easier for a comedian to learn to do drama than vice-versa.)

There's another small point: a lot of today's younger audience may not know who Burnett is, but Gilligan and his crowd certainly do. A showbiz icon loves you show and you have a part that fits them. Why *wouldn't* you hire her? plus, from all accounts, Burnett is a lovely, warm, and generous person and a pleasure to be around. Wins everywhere you look.

Her voice alone is always instantly recognizable to me.

[PeterPirate]

1 hour ago, Andre LaPlume said:

I think Jeff’s mother was important because it put Gene back in control of the dynamic with Jeff 

Yes, but mom could have been played by an unknown actor.  Casting someone lime Carol Burnett raises the stakes.  

I heard New Jeff was cast based on his audition for Old Jeff.  I would like to see that.  

[peeayebee]

Yeah, I heard that when they were had to recast Jeff, they pulled the old audition tapes, and there was Pat Healy. I think he had to read again, but the lines of the scene partner ('sides'?) were fake, so he didn't know Jeff's mother would figure into it. AND he certainly didn't know it would be Carol Burnett.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

If Babe Ruth were somehow to express a desire for a minor role in my baseball organization, I would move heaven and earth to make it happen.   Burnett, to some in the biz, is just about as iconic.  I am expecting that Marion is gonna make life really hard for our boy Gene.

The discussions about being so super picky as a BCS/BB consumer have been smart, imo.  For me, since G&G have made it a point over and over and over again to be super meticulous in setting up certain scenarios and moments, they have invited the scrutiny.  Now, add in the intentional and multiple Easter Eggs, which they have promoted, and they are almost begging for a hyper-vigilant viewing.  I, for one, admire them for it.  I also marvel at how they get out of some problematic plot structures.

Lastly, I want to mention that the shot we saw in the promo for the next ep instantly took me to North by Northwest and the iconic scene of Cary Grant running from the bi-plane.  Not saying I have any specific rationale for it, excepting the flat and wide open land surrounding the car.  I love BCS for giving me such connections to classic movies/TV shows.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Lonesome Rhodes

[Penman61]

40 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Lastly, I want to mention that the shot we saw in the promo for the next ep instantly took me to North by Northwest and the iconic scene of Cary Grant running from the bi-plane.  Not saying I have and specific rationale for it, excepting the flat and wide open land surrounding the car.  I love BCS for giving me such connections to classic movies/TV shows.

Immediately thought the same thing. And, as in that film, the main road is aligned ~north-by-northwest (true north being top center of the frame).

Edited July 30, 2022 by Penman61

[PeterPirate]

28 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

Immediately thought the same thing. And, as in that film, the main road is aligned on a north-by-northwest axis. :)

Cary Grant ends up with girl at the end of North By Northwest.

Just sayin'.  

[SimplexFish]

29 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

Cary Grant ends up with girl at the end of North By Northwest.

Just sayin'.  

I think every Cary Grant movie ended that way as well...lucky bastard, LOL

[peeayebee]

North By Northwest is a better one than what occurred to me: Castaway.

[Penman61]

52 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

North By Northwest is a better one than what occurred to me: Castaway.

Yes! And in this one, the guy LOSES the girl (though it's implied he gets another one, lol.)

[millennium]

5 hours ago, wendyg said:

Why *wouldn't* you hire her?

Because viewers will think, "It's Carol Burnett," not some cranky octogenarian on a scooter.

Kind of like Ed Sheeran in Game of Thrones.  "Look, it's Ed Sheeran sitting next to Arya."

It breaks the spell.

[peeayebee]

Ed Sheeran in GoT was the worst type of stunt-casting. For me, Carol Burnett slipped seamlessly into the role. I could not unseen Sheeran.

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, millennium said:

Because viewers will think, "It's Carol Burnett," not some cranky octogenarian on a scooter.

Kind of like Ed Sheeran in Game of Thrones.  "Look, it's Ed Sheeran sitting next to Arya."

It breaks the spell.

But I think there's a difference between a young singer who's popular right now and a senior citizen who had her own show in the 70s whens he looked very different, has been doing supporting roles for years.

[Constantinople]

On 7/29/2022 at 9:05 PM, millennium said:

Fingers crossed they'll bring in Donny and Marie before it's over.

Next week in Episode 11 ("Breaking Bad")

Quote

Marie: I'm a little bit meth chef

Donny: And I'm a little bit criminal, lawyer

[PeterPirate]

Courtney's analysis of the episode.  Includes a detailed analysis of the title sequence, and ends with what happened when she called the number on the flyer.  

[DrSpaceman73]

I don't know.....just feel like with so few episodes left didn't need an entire episude for this. 

Wait a long time for the next episode after tye thrilling end to the last one and....they make you wait longer.  Just annoying. 

[Neiman]

This "Nippy" episode had me craving Cinnabons.  We don't have one nearby, so I looked online and learned they can be purchased frozen at Walmart.  If any of you are thinking of doing the same, be advised that they taste like cinnamon sprinkled cardboard with sweet frosting on top.  If you purchase, please don't assume you'll get the same experience as Frank.  I may try to salvage the frosting, but the rest of my box is going in the garbage. 

[DrSpaceman73]

And add me to those who think Carol burnett knows more about what is happening than what she said.  

[Neiman]

8 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

And add me to those who think Carol burnett knows more about what is happening than what she said.  

I wondered if she makes a connection to Gene's/Saul's work with the Sandpiper community.  I wouldn't be surprised if she had some friend or relative(s) at Sandpiper.  

[peeayebee]

9 hours ago, Neiman said:

If you purchase, please don't assume you'll get the same experience as Frank.

I want to experience everything the way Frank experienced those Cinnabons.

9 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

And add me to those who think Carol burnett knows more about what is happening than what she said.  

I never noticed any sign of her hiding anything from Gene. She's perceptive, but Gene was convincing. However, there could certainly be a slip-up on Gene's part, or Jeff could confess to his mother, and then she looks into it. 

[ShadowFacts]

9 hours ago, Neiman said:

I wondered if she makes a connection to Gene's/Saul's work with the Sandpiper community.  I wouldn't be surprised if she had some friend or relative(s) at Sandpiper.  

Yes, and it's a multi-state operation if I'm remembering correctly. I think he has even greater exposure from his TV ads, and as someone mentioned earlier, he was unwise to be in a public facing job.

[Constantinople]

12 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I want to experience everything the way Frank experienced those Cinnabons.

Too bad Better Call Saul doesn't have a promotion where a Gene Takovic lookalike delivers 2 Cinnabons to the winner

[peeayebee]

11 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

Courtney's analysis of the episode.  Includes a detailed analysis of the title sequence, and ends with what happened when she called the number on the flyer.  

Thanks for posting this. I kept checking to see if she had put up her analysis of this ep. She is so good, so perceptive. I hadn't noticed re the title sequence that when the tape goes to blue, it then started recording again. 

And I had just posted that I didn't think Gene had slipped up with Marion, but I forgot about the scene where she asks about Nippy ("Where is my brain?"), and Gene takes a second to realize what she's talking about. She didn't SEEM to have noticed his hesitation, but we know that she is a smart woman, so even if she didn't really notice right then, she may very well rethink that moment in the kitchen with Gene.

A couple of days ago I tried calling the number on the Nippy flyer. I kept getting a busy signal. I'd read that you just have to keep trying, but I didn't, so I appreciate Courtney playing the recording for us. I just wish Bob Odenkirk had actually done the recording.

Edited July 31, 2022 by peeayebee

[gallimaufry]

I admit, not being American, I wasn't familiar with Burnett but it's not like hiring a comedy actor for a dramatic role is new to the show - Bob Odenkirk was and still is a comedian and Seehorn, McKean and others were better known for comedy roles.  I'd seen Patrick Fabian in a bunch of roles prior.  However big a star they are, I think the key is whether the actor is capable of delivering a performance that makes you forget that you know them.

7 hours ago, Neiman said:

I wondered if she makes a connection to Gene's/Saul's work with the Sandpiper community.  I wouldn't be surprised if she had some friend or relative(s) at Sandpiper.  

Although the idea of folding in Sandpiper appeals to me, I feel like this would be a reach.  For one thing, how many people actually met Jimmy?  For another, how much do you discuss a lawyer you met 7 years ago, which is roughly as long as it's been in-universe since Jimmy worked on Sandpiper?

Even the scene about Nippy at the end plays fine as "What's the matter with Nippy?  Oh yeah, he ran off" rather than "Nippy?  Who's Nippy?"  All this said, I do expect Marion to factor into the show's endgame somehow.  Perhaps if she finds evidence of the clothes and forces a confession out of Jeff.

[PeterPirate]

35 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Thanks for posting this. I kept checking to see if she had put up her analysis of this ep. She is so good, so perceptive. I hadn't noticed re the title sequence that when the tape goes to blue, it then started recording again. 

Yeah.  I have not paid attention to the title sequences myself, so when people posted about the tape "breaking", I took that as a given.  And Courtney liked my "Casablanca Ending".  

5 minutes ago, gallimaufry said:

I admit, not being American, I wasn't familiar with Burnett but it's not like hiring a comedy actor for a dramatic role is new to the show - Bob Odenkirk was and still is a comedian and Seehorn, McKean and others were better known for comedy roles.  I'd seen Patrick Fabian in a bunch of roles prior.  However big a star they are, I think the key is whether the actor is capable of delivering a performance that makes you forget that you know them.

Since it's Sunday, I post this for anyone who hasn't seen it.  

[Starchild]

OMG so many people's favourite sketch, including me.

Her Marion character on that show was the lead in a soap opera parody called "As the Stomach Turns." There were many "episodes" over the 11 years her show was on.

"The Carol Burnett Show" was one of my favourites growing up. 

"Legend" is used a little freely these days, but this lady is a literal entertainment legend, no exaggeration.

[DrSpaceman73]

2 hours ago, gallimaufry said:

I admit, not being American, I wasn't familiar with Burnett but it's not like hiring a comedy actor for a dramatic role is new to the show - Bob Odenkirk was and still is a comedian and Seehorn, McKean and others were better known for comedy roles.  I'd seen Patrick Fabian in a bunch of roles prior.  However big a star they are, I think the key is whether the actor is capable of delivering a performance that makes you forget that you know them.

Although the idea of folding in Sandpiper appeals to me, I feel like this would be a reach.  For one thing, how many people actually met Jimmy?  For another, how much do you discuss a lawyer you met 7 years ago, which is roughly as long as it's been in-universe since Jimmy worked on Sandpiper?

Even the scene about Nippy at the end plays fine as "What's the matter with Nippy?  Oh yeah, he ran off" rather than "Nippy?  Who's Nippy?"  All this said, I do expect Marion to factor into the show's endgame somehow.  Perhaps if she finds evidence of the clothes and forces a confession out of Jeff.

And Bryan Cranston had primarily been a comedic actor before breaking bad. 

I think they just wanted a talented actress, nane known or otherwise. 

[scenario]

38 minutes ago, Starchild said:

OMG so many people's favourite sketch, including me.

Her Marion character on that show was the lead in a soap opera parody called "As the Stomach Turns." There were many "episodes" over the 11 years her show was on.

"The Carol Burnett Show" was one of my favourites growing up. 

"Legend" is used a little freely these days, but this lady is a literal entertainment legend, no exaggeration.

The reason that Carol isn't known by the newer generation is that her show hasn't been repeated over and over again in syndication, like a lot of sitcoms were.

She never had a role in a really big movie that people are still talking about 40 years later.

She also didn't have a meme attached to her. No "Better take off and nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure." Or "Marsha, Marsh, Marsha." Or any one of a hundred from Princess Bride or Monty Python.  

There's no reason why anyone would have heard of her who isn't old enough to remember her show or they are a student of comedy. That has nothing to do with her talent.

[DrSpaceman73]

Putting this in spoilers just in case 

Spoiler

Imdb has Carol burnett listed in two episodes so she will be back

[Starchild]

1 hour ago, scenario said:

The reason that Carol isn't known by the newer generation is that her show hasn't been repeated over and over again in syndication, like a lot of sitcoms were.

She never had a role in a really big movie that people are still talking about 40 years later.

She also didn't have a meme attached to her. No "Better take off and nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure." Or "Marsha, Marsh, Marsha." Or any one of a hundred from Princess Bride or Monty Python.  

There's no reason why anyone would have heard of her who isn't old enough to remember her show or they are a student of comedy. That has nothing to do with her talent.

Not even "I saw it in the window and just had to have it"? ;)