S03.E07: Bring It Down

[tessaray]

Release Date: July 22, 2022

Quote

A joint mission brings about conflict between crew members.

[whiporee]

Wow. I'm glad they had such an unsubstantial episode to let us catch our breath. 

Margo is the worst, crying pillow and all. 

Danny is even worser. Ed went too far, though. 

Kelly kind of sucked. 

Everyone kind of sucked. 

It's nice of Moore to say that politics is politics, and much like the Reps did it to the Dems, the Dem would have done it to the Reps. It's just politics. 

Ellen might not suck, but she's dumb. 

Jimmy's fake girlfriend sucks, too. Jimmy is just pathetic. 

Kind of odd they took the tactic of having Wren Schmidt explain what actually happened in the "Science Of" segment. 

Looks like Dani will save the day. Again. Yipee. 

Alieda didn't suck. Too bad about her marriage. 

And, just for the record, that degree of cliffhanger is a cheap tactic that has been used WAY too much this season. 

How soon 'til next week? 

[Accidental Martyr]

Come on, there’s no way those idiots could steal the statue from the front of the Johnson Space Center.

[CarpeFelis]

1 hour ago, Accidental Martyr said:

Come on, there’s no way those idiots could steal the statue from the front of the Johnson Space Center.

Assuming they could somehow do it without being caught, why would they need the badge to do it? It was outside the building!

Danny needs to be booted out the nearest airlock without a suit. But I really want to know WTF Ed was thinking, knowing he was using and yet trusting him to be backup on comms during a dangerous operation. Even being Gordo’s kid shouldn’t earn him enough goodwill to be trusted that far, and I’d think someone with Ed’s background and experience would know better. Have the writers suddenly decided to make him a complete idiot? What he should have done was ship Danny back up to Phoenix, pronto, and have him confined to quarters up there.

ETA: Too bad Gordo and Tracy’s sons are both evil.

Edited July 22, 2022 by CarpeFelis

[Glade]

There clearly should have been protocols in place as to what to do when a crew member on Mars has a mental health/addiction crisis, and no, screaming at them to "be a man" and telling them to hit you and then leaving them on duty (let alone solo duty) when they still have access to drugs was a terrible way to go about it.   I totally thought the statue-stealers were going to shoot him when he left his house, to do away with the liability after they got the badge.  I guess it's interesting that the Clinton scandal still happens, just in a different way.

[CarpeFelis]

8 hours ago, Glade said:

There clearly should have been protocols in place as to what to do when a crew member on Mars has a mental health/addiction crisis, and no, screaming at them to "be a man" and telling them to hit you and then leaving them on duty (let alone solo duty) when they still have access to drugs was a terrible way to go about it.

Completely agree about that. But Danny’s not just having a problem with mental health and addiction. He has a huge anger management problem and an attitude, and hates Ed with a passion. All of these were factors even before the drugs were in the picture. At this point I’d call him evil. (The little robot dog was cute but kinda annoying, sure. I figured he’d end up kicking it and sending it flying across the room. But no, he had to smash the poor thing.) Gotta say the actor is doing a fantastic job of making Danny easy to hate.

The drugs were clearly a factor in the disaster but not the only one. I think the drugs lowered his inhibitions enough that he deliberately let it happen hoping to kill Ed and not caring if it also killed anyone else out there. If another crew member were addicted and in this situation, lacking Danny’s hostility, would they have done the same?

[marinw]

On 7/21/2022 at 11:52 PM, whiporee said:

Margo is the worst, crying pillow and all. 

I sorta kinda felt sorry for Margo. Sergei may be the only man she ever loved.

Danny is officially the Worst Person in Space (or not on Earth) since Inaro Marcos. Isn't anybody keeping track of the drug supply? Dude with the Robot Dog (He should have ben called Muffit) seems to be the most competent person on the Helios Crew.

Edited July 23, 2022 by marinw

[Clawdette]

Two words:  drug overdose. 

[TimWil]

I just think it was a very bad mistake to continue the Stevens sons’ story in Season 3. Please god they won’t still be around in Season 4.

[jcin617]

Pretty sure the President can’t just hop on a plane with no notice and go to (as far as the Secret Service is concerned) some random house.

Also, that’s twice now they’ve shown the Oval Office recording machine.  Since there was no Watergate in this timeline, I feel like they’re reminding us they’re still there.

Lastly, Danny should have been sent up immediately if Ed knew he was using.

[wmdekooning]

23 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

But I really want to know WTF Ed was thinking, knowing he was using and yet trusting him to be backup on comms during a dangerous operation. Even being Gordo’s kid shouldn’t earn him enough goodwill to be trusted that far, and I’d think someone with Ed’s background and experience would know better. Have the writers suddenly decided to make him a complete idiot?

How do, you even get a drug stash on a Mars space station is my first thought.

Ed, I’m feeling like I need to watch again to see if I missed where Ed ever was a competent officer and astronaut. When Danny was grounded one would think that would be the last word for Ed. Maybe space travel in their timeline is so commonplace that you would just assign a grounded officer who has been designated such by another ultra-experienced astronaut and veteran of several space missions.

Absolutely when Danny stomped on the toy dog, he should have been sent to the ship orbiting Mars if that was an option otherwise the brig or he can be locked in his room, he can spank it to videos of Karen till it’s time to go back to Earth.

BTW, isn’t there a doctor who could have told something wasn’t right with Danny, that drugs we missing from the pharmacy? Maybe the doctor was the woman who got crushed by the Soviet spacecraft…

[marinw]

What does President Ellen think she can accomplish by seeing Pam? Pam is living her own life and is not going to have an affair with the POTUS becuase Pam is not stupid.

Ellen is an example of what happens with absolute power corrupting. See also: Margo.

[watch2much]

wondering if one of the cosmonauts didn't make it to safety and if that was Kelly's boyfriend?

so unbelievable that Ed didn't send Danny to Phoenix once he knew he was using drugs.  and letting him do anything that required responsibility?  

yes, dog could get annoying, but would think using the on/off switch would do as well.

[HDJulie]

The group that Jimmy is hanging with - they think space travel is a hoax?  The girl said something about the statue being for something that didn’t happen. 

[KarenX]

1 hour ago, HDJulie said:

The group that Jimmy is hanging with - they think space travel is a hoax?  The girl said something about the statue being for something that didn’t happen. 

They think that the stated reason for the Jamestown catastrophe was a hoax. That the Tracy/Gordon Heroic Act is a cover story for something. I sort of lost the thread on the specifics.

[Dobian]

Kids, don't do drugs.

[Mr. R0b0t]

arf arf arf

No way Danny shouldn't have been confined to quarters immediately. Not a fan of either of the brothers stories and how they are bleeding into the things I actually do care about seeing.

Watching Margo gaslight Aleida was rough.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Mr. R0b0t

[Accidental Martyr]

On 7/22/2022 at 8:28 PM, TimWil said:

I just think it was a very bad mistake to continue the Stevens sons’ story in Season 3. Please god they won’t still be around in Season 4.

Yes, both the brothers’ storylines are ridiculous and awful.

[xaxat]

Sad NASA Martian crew was so sad.

Agree with the criticism of Ed. Once he figured Danny was on drugs, he should have ensured he had no more access to amphetamines (he doesn't even know about the oxy) and relieved him of any duties. Dani warned him.

22 hours ago, KarenX said:

They think that the stated reason for the Jamestown catastrophe was a hoax. That the Tracy/Gordon Heroic Act is a cover story for something. I sort of lost the thread on the specifics.

One of the group is an astronaut who served on Jamestown with Tracy. Like many conspiracies, there is a kernel of truth in that the US and the Soviets did collude in order to cover up what actually happened. After Apollo/Soyuz they came up with a cover story that the Sea Dragon crashed because of a malfunction (when Ed shot it down) and I'm pretty sure that the fact that Ed, Dani, and "Sally Ride" all disobeyed direct orders is not part of the official history.

On 7/21/2022 at 10:52 PM, whiporee said:

Jimmy's fake girlfriend sucks, too. Jimmy is just pathetic. 

The only thing that matters to Jimmy is she is hot. However he is pathetic to believe she is interested in him.

[Dobian]

One thing's for sure.  If some American company was teaming up with the Soviets to drill for water on Mars, you know damn well the U.S. government would have been all over that.  Probably seize control of the company for national security.

[marinw]

1 hour ago, Dobian said:

If some American company was teaming up with the Soviets to drill for water on Mars, you know damn well the U.S. government would have been all over that. Probably seize control of the company for national security.

Does the Defence Production Act apply to American Companies which happen to be on Mars? Asking for a friend

[xaxat]

2 hours ago, Dobian said:

One thing's for sure.  If some American company was teaming up with the Soviets to drill for water on Mars, you know damn well the U.S. government would have been all over that.  Probably seize control of the company for national security.

It's been tried before,, and under our timeline's law, that would be un-constitutional. Youngstown Steel

[TimWil]

I wonder if Margo’s sobbing into a large cushion was a choice of Wrenn Schmidt’s. I think it could have been. The scene was very awkwardly staged to begin with by having them both standing in the middle of the office. And then he leaves and she’s stuck there…and so she grabs a cushion to sob into? Margo should have been standing behind her desk for the scene, he leaves and then she sits down in her chair for her mini meltdown.

Edited July 24, 2022 by TimWil

[Accidental Martyr]

Wouldn’t the missing badge be immediately noticed and reported?

Why don’t they keep the badges around their neck the whole time in the first place?

[Dobian]

5 hours ago, xaxat said:

It's been tried before,, and under our timeline's law, that would be un-constitutional. Youngstown Steel

Well having read it, it limits the power of the president to make an executive order without authorization from Congress.  But if Congress acted and said the government should seize a company for national security interests, then if the president signs the order he is acting in the wishes of Congress and it's okay.  That's how I read it anyway.

[Dev F]

On 7/23/2022 at 1:22 PM, KarenX said:

They think that the stated reason for the Jamestown catastrophe was a hoax. That the Tracy/Gordon Heroic Act is a cover story for something. I sort of lost the thread on the specifics.

I think their conspiracy theory is that evil Russians and evil Americans were conspiring to divide the Moon's resources between themselves, and when some of the good and decent astronauts on the Moon got suspicious, the conspirators had them killed.

9 hours ago, xaxat said:

One of the group is an astronaut who served on Jamestown with Tracy. Like many conspiracies, there is a kernel of truth in that the US and the Soviets did collude in order to cover up what actually happened. After Apollo/Soyuz they came up with a cover story that the Sea Dragon crashed because of a malfunction (when Ed shot it down) and I'm pretty sure that the fact that Ed, Dani, and "Sally Ride" all disobeyed direct orders is not part of the official history.

Yeah, and the US government was also covering up the fact that they'd installed a second reactor in the Jamestown base to make weapons-grade plutonium but hadn't gotten around to hooking it up to the backup cooling system yet. That's why people like Charles Bernitz the moon marine find the tale of Tracy and Gordo's heroic sacrifice so fishy—because NASA fudged a problem with two reactors and two cooling systems into a vague thing about something going on with the colony's one reactor, and it didn't fit with the details they knew about the base and its operations.

[wmdekooning]

On 7/24/2022 at 1:09 PM, xaxat said:

Agree with the criticism of Ed. Once he figured Danny was on drugs, he should have ensured he had no more access to amphetamines (he doesn't even know about the oxy) and relieved him of any duties. Dani warned him.

I believe that’s why Ed chose Danny in the first place. The second reason was because of his friendship with Danny’s father, and because for a moment, Danny put his butt on the line to save the space station.

But mostly because Dani warned him and he’s not the friend to her we may have thought he was, and couldn’t respect her as a professional…

[CarpeFelis]

On 7/22/2022 at 10:18 PM, wmdekooning said:

BTW, isn’t there a doctor who could have told something wasn’t right with Danny, that drugs we missing from the pharmacy? Maybe the doctor was the woman who got crushed by the Soviet spacecraft…

She was with NASA, not Helios.

17 hours ago, Accidental Martyr said:

Wouldn’t the missing badge be immediately noticed and reported?

Why don’t they keep the badges around their neck the whole time in the first place?

Don’t know if it’s a factor in the show’s timeline, but when I was still working we had card readers in our PCs and had to use our badges to log in. It was not uncommon to walk away and forget the badge had been left in there (although you could remove it as soon as login completed).

11 minutes ago, wmdekooning said:

I believe that’s why Ed chose Danny in the first place. The second reason was because of his friendship with Danny’s father, and because for a moment, Danny put his butt on the line to save the space station.

But mostly because Dani warned him and he’s not the friend to her we may have thought he was, and couldn’t respect her as a professional…

I don’t think it was that he’s not really her friend. It was disrespect but I’m not entirely sure it was at a conscious level. Ed would probably say he does respect Dani as a professional. Remember, Ed would be in the generation born in the mid-1930s. I think he still has that nasty “boys will be boys” mentality which led him to think it wasn’t such a big deal, that Danny could easily get himself back under control, and that women overreact. That “not listening because a woman said it” thing makes me see red.

[whiporee]

3 hours ago, wmdekooning said:

I believe that’s why Ed chose Danny in the first place. The second reason was because of his friendship with Danny’s father, and because for a moment, Danny put his butt on the line to save the space station.

But mostly because Dani warned him and he’s not the friend to her we may have thought he was, and couldn’t respect her as a professional…

He just disagreed with her assessment of the situation. I'm sure Dani didn't -- couldn't -- walk him through any difficulties Stevens was having during training, because that's classified and Ed doesn't work at NASA anymore. But let's not continue to place Dani on the pedestal of all-knowingness. She is the one that got Stevens going to Mars in the first place. She is the one that made him 17 percent of her crew. She shouldn't expect Ed to reject everything he knows --or thinks he knows -- about Stevens on her say-so.  Two years passed between the scene in question and the launch of the Mars missions -- and Helios has a whole bunch of empowered people watching. Saying that Ed ignored Dani's advice out of malice is just to decide the guy sucks and any excuse you can find, you're gonna run with. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Wait, I thought the situation with Sergei was pretty much settled with him on the verge of being granted asylum. Are the Russians still trying to work Margo or was that finally the end of it?

That fat congressman grilling Ellen's husband looked like Russell Crowe plus 200 pounds. What a weak version of the Clinton-Lewinski situation.

Dopehead Danny and his brother Jerkface Jimmy. Gordon and Tracy made a couple of winners with those two. One will likely wreck the Mars mission and the other will help wreck NASA.

So does Ed know about Kelly and her cosmonaut boyfriend Alexei or not?

Those conspiracy theory fools had access to NASA and the best they could do was steal the statue? Guess they assumed there were no security cameras.

Doesn't look like Kelly's probable baby daddy is going to leave Mars alive. Maybe not her dad either. Danny needs a long Martian vacation, with no spacesuit or helmet.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Joimiaroxeu

[xaxat]

On 7/25/2022 at 5:20 PM, whiporee said:

I'm sure Dani didn't -- couldn't -- walk him through any difficulties Stevens was having during training, because that's classified and Ed doesn't work at NASA anymore.

She told him that a person, who they both know has a history of drug and alcohol addiction problems, had broken his sobriety. That would seem disqualifying for someone who is about to spend years in a series of sophisticated tin cans.

[whiporee]

16 hours ago, xaxat said:

She told him that a person, who they both know has a history of drug and alcohol addiction problems, had broken his sobriety. That would seem disqualifying for someone who is about to spend years in a series of sophisticated tin cans.

 But he broke his sobriety -- as far as any of them know -- two years earlier. The show's never great about explaining timelines, but there was a two-year gap between Danny getting named and the missions launching. There's no reason to think Danny's sobriety was any more fragile now than it was then. 

Both Ed and Dani knew that Danny had a family history of being cuckoo in space after a prolonged time, but they both signed him up for it anyway. It's unfair to just point the finger at Ed for that. 

[AnnieBananie]

On 7/28/2022 at 9:30 AM, whiporee said:

But he broke his sobriety -- as far as any of them know -- two years earlier. The show's never great about explaining timelines, but there was a two-year gap between Danny getting named and the missions launching. There's no reason to think Danny's sobriety was any more fragile now than it was then. 

Both Ed and Dani knew that Danny had a family history of being cuckoo in space after a prolonged time, but they both signed him up for it anyway. It's unfair to just point the finger at Ed for that. 

I can't believe there wasn't a comprehensive psychiatric workup on him before he was sent up and that his substance abuse history wasn't brought into question. I would imagine that the latter could/would have kept him grounded.

Also, why wasn't the doctor the only one with the key to the meds cabinet?

[meep.meep]

On 7/25/2022 at 10:50 AM, CarpeFelis said:

Don’t know if it’s a factor in the show’s timeline, but when I was still working we had card readers in our PCs and had to use our badges to log in. It was not uncommon to walk away and forget the badge had been left in there (although you could remove it as soon as login completed).

PIV cards came much later than the time they are setting this in.  And you can see that the badges don't have the chips.

One of the things the show as a whole gets right are the badges and the really weird places women in particular would wear them.  Men used to clip them on their shirt pockets but women used the edge of their jackets, and pants pockets.  

[CarpeFelis]

54 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

PIV cards came much later than the time they are setting this in.  And you can see that the badges don't have the chips.

One of the things the show as a whole gets right are the badges and the really weird places women in particular would wear them.  Men used to clip them on their shirt pockets but women used the edge of their jackets, and pants pockets.  

A lot of us at Boeing wore them on lanyards, even back then.

[paramitch]

On 7/21/2022 at 7:52 PM, whiporee said:

Margo is the worst, crying pillow and all. 

It's interesting that this seems to be the prevailing opinion, along with "zero sympathy because she's a spy," etc., because I feel like this is one of the complex storylines the show has handled really beautifully.

I don't care about a lot of the family drama in FAM, but Margo and Sergei's situation has moved and saddened me, and his departure here broke my heart.

Yes, Margo crossed the line into breaking some serious laws, but I would argue that the show has done a good job of showing us how her gradual progression of occasional sharing in the name of science and saving lives could turn into unintended espionage. And how that could happen to a good person (and I do think Margo is a good person). 

First, with her telling Sergei about the situation with the O-rings on the shuttles, because while the General was practically salivating over the idea of exploding Russian space shuttles, Margo is not a sociopath, and all she wanted was to provide a scientific bit of information that would save innocent lives. The fact that Sergei's superiors soon began to actively use Sergei's friendship with Margo is so sad to me, and her unwitting and then willing cooperation were both believable to me, although I think the show's Russians are more heavyhanded and less devious than they would have been IRL.

Was it against the law? Of course. Should she go to jail? Sure. Do I hope she gets out of it? Yep.

Margo lives in her office. She lives for work. She lives for the space program and has given her life selflessly to achieve its goals and protect its people. She has literally nothing else. And we have seen her have only three close personal relationships -- Von Braun, whom she cut off in horror when she realized he had been complicit with the Nazis (and specifically, the concentration camps), and then across all the decades, only two other people: Aleida, and Sergei.

This is one of the loneliest people I can imagine. Aleida is basically her adopted daughter. And Sergei is the only man she has ever loved or (it appears) even been close to. So I felt deeply sad for Margo at her goodbye to Sergei (beautifully acted by both Piotr Adamczyk and Wrenn Schmidt), and sad again when she had to frantically try to divert Aleida. The moment when Margo cried into the pillow to keep her emotions silent I found devastating and real.

I could give a shit about Stalker Danny, but I do care deeply about Margo (and Aleida and Sergei). She shared the information she did because she truly felt she was saving lives. I'm incredibly sad that she appears doomed here because work is all she has ever had, and her legacy will be forever tainted by this.

While I am so over the awful children of poor Gordo and Tracy (who deserved better), Margo's complex arc is one of the storylines that I feel the show has done a beautiful job with.

[txhorns79]

On 8/15/2023 at 4:21 AM, paramitch said:

 

Yes, Margo crossed the line into breaking some serious laws, but I would argue that the show has done a good job of showing us how her gradual progression of occasional sharing in the name of science and saving lives could turn into unintended espionage.

It wasn't unintended espionage.  Margo knew exactly what she was doing right from the start when she revealed she knew the Soviets had stolen the shuttle design and warned them about the faulty O-ring.  She just had justified the espionage to herself.

I just can't with Danny or Jimmy.  I don't even know what Jimmy's deal is.  I have no clue why he so instantly fell in with criminal conspiracy theorists.  The show has barely bothered to develop the character. 

And more seriously, exactly what show is Ellen on?  She's on a soap opera version of The West Wing, while the rest of the cast is dealing with their space dramas. 

[paramitch]

On 10/23/2023 at 6:02 PM, txhorns79 said:

It wasn't unintended espionage.  Margo knew exactly what she was doing right from the start when she revealed she knew the Soviets had stolen the shuttle design and warned them about the faulty O-ring.  She just had justified the espionage to herself.

 

I disagree. I think as a scientist, Margo wasn't remotely or knowingly acting as "an agent of the U.S. Government" or seeking to suborn her government. She did not seek harm or treason against her government. She was simply seeking to share a fact that would save lives with another scientist.

She was acting universally, "For all Mankind," the actual title of this show. She was acting as a scientist, for the greater good.

If Carl Sagan had been told about the O-Rings and he could have alerted other countries about that danger, I personally think he would not have hesitated to let them know (or lost a moment of sleep over it). Neither would Richard Feynman.

I mean, is this espionage? I guess so. But I wouldn't give a shit myself. The idiocy between the countries is, I feel, part of the purpose of the show -- that "mankind" is nothing until it bands together. 

Banding together are its best moments in the show. The moments that show we might still have a chance.

Unfortunately, the show also heavily leans on "people are too stupid to do that," which I also agree with. See also the world today.

A human being will try to save the person next to them. A country will try to dominate, occupy, or destroy the country next to them.

It's the tragedy of humanity thus far.

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, paramitch said:

I disagree. I think as a scientist, Margo wasn't remotely or knowingly acting as "an agent of the U.S. Government" or seeking to suborn her government. She did not seek harm or treason against her government. She was simply seeking to share a fact that would save lives with another scientist.

I would have to disagree.  Margo was the Administrator of NASA.  In her role as Administrator, she received classified intelligence about the Soviet space program.  She then revealed that intelligence in an unauthorized fashion to her Soviet counterpart, i.e. that the US knew the Soviets had stolen the plans for the Challenger.  That action puts US agents in immediate danger because she has revealed someone close to the Soviet space program is spying for the Americans, and what exactly the Americans know about the Soviet program.  Her actions were very much criminal.      

[paramitch]

@txhorns79 I was being too simplistic. I don't disagree with your POV, I just  find it understandable that Margo reacted from a larger, more humanitarian place and found it hard to (for instance) willingly and knowingly withhold information from a friendly fellow scientist -- someone she had liked and respected for years -- about flaws that would absolutely result in loss of life.

I honestly don't know if that's a test I could pass myself -- knowing that the other country's next shuttle would most likely explode upon launch, and saying nothing, and we're not even in a state of war or imminent conflict?

Yeah -- I'd give them a hint and try to keep it contained -- which is probably why I'm not in the military or politics. I don't like black and white answers to questions that are ten thousand shades of grey.

(My Dad IS a retired Navy officer and he would be horrified at my answer here. Oh, well!)