S01.E06: What Cannot Be Cured

[CountryGirl]

Quote

Thomas' actions implicate Elizabeth. Under house arrest, she must clear her name while she is questioned by Lord Dudley. Lord Somerset is shaken by his brother's actions.

Airdate July 17, 2022

[Glade]

The actor playing King Edward is so good, all of his scenes are fascinating and powerful.  I had no idea that Mary was almost Lord Protector; obviously things would have gone very differently if she was.  Seeing the title of Thomas' final letter reminded me of Cate Blanchett screaming "I am no man's Elizabeth!" when she was the recipient of those words.  But the writing and accuracy here is so much better then her two Elizabeth movies/The Tudors. 

[PinkRibbons]

Now there's a glimpse of Gloriana. Throwing Thomas to the wolves to protect herself. You have to wonder whether some small (or not-so-small) part of her is relieved to have Thomas dead. Aside from his pulling her into this mess, it seems like she may have been realizing how abusive and wrong his actions concerning her were. I was surprised she told Lord Dudley the general truth, I never thought Elizabeth ever admitted to Thomas proposing marriage. But then again, this is definitely the part of Tudor History I'm not very well-versed in. Somerset's downfall so soon after Thomas's seems like it was very compressed. Still he hasn't been arrested, just displaced, so we'll see. I would have liked to see more of the many weeks a wily Elizabeth actually evaded questioning and drove the council insane, but that had to be compressed too.

Ah Mary. Way to shoot yourself in the foot. She had a bit too much smug about her, although I guess with Elizabeth at least she was trying to teach her to withstand hardship in her own slightly petty way. She should not have tipped off Somerset to her change in rank and by that, Dudley, but the latter really should be less dismissive of her. If there's anyone who knows how to bide their time with patience and a long memory for ill-treatment, it's Mary Fucking Tudor. Man will he regret that attitude he copped toward her.

Poor Somerset, wasting grief and sorrow over a brother who deserved none. Thomas's actions and death were every step of the way his own fault. I like them showing how mistreating everyone around him really bit him in the ass with his young serving man. That poor kid has looked petrified every time I remember seeing him.

Above all, poor Edward. Bullied about by everyone, never sure who's going to betray him next. (Although the bird torture still shows that nasty cold side of him. Jesus, kid.) I wonder if seeing how Somerset clearly loved his own son contributed to Edward's hatred of his Lord Protector, and Dudley's easy manipulation of him. Somerset could have been a father but he chose to be a king-by-proxy.

Finally, enter Amy Robsart! I didn't expect to see her and she was an interesting choice. She tends to be romanticized as a very sad and submissive, even frightened creature. And maybe we'll see how she devolves to that state. As a young woman however, it's a nice trick of writing having her be kind of an Achievable Elizabeth for Robert. She's got similar beauty, vivaciousness, wit, charm and if not the same level of intelligence, enough to make Robert give her the eye. She's also missing the sadness that necessarily permeates through  Elizabeth at this point in her life. I look forward to seeing how that goes.

Edited July 18, 2022 by PinkRibbons

[susannot]

We know what awaits Amy Robsart.  The staircase.

What a hothead was Thomas.  On the gallows, he goes after his young servant to make him promise to deliver the letter to Elizabeth. And how stupid was he?   Did he believe that no one would find out about the letter?

If ever a historical figure richly deserved his fate, it is Thomas Seymour.

[Spartan Girl]

Honestly, even if Elizabeth wasn’t so paranoid about staying in Edward’s good graces, burning the letter was the right call. Thomas was not worth it.

Speaking of guys that aren’t worth it…run, Amy, run!

[jenn31]

Great episode. I’m really enjoying the series. So many good actors. But I’m having trouble with the actress playing Elizabeth. She pales in comparison to the others. It may be her voice. Everyone else has strong bold voices but her voice keeps cracking and half the time it drains to a whisper. If not for the subtitles, I wouldn’t be able to decipher half her dialogue. Enunciate, girl!

[Steph J]

2 hours ago, susannot said:

What a hothead was Thomas.  On the gallows, he goes after his young servant to make him promise to deliver the letter to Elizabeth. And how stupid was he?   Did he believe that no one would find out about the letter?

What did he have to lose? They couldn't take his head twice.

That scene with the bird really messed me up.

Kind of disappointed that there was so little to Elizabeth's interrogation.

[ferjy]

7 hours ago, jenn31 said:

Great episode. I’m really enjoying the series. So many good actors. But I’m having trouble with the actress playing Elizabeth. She pales in comparison to the others. It may be her voice. Everyone else has strong bold voices but her voice keeps cracking and half the time it drains to a whisper. If not for the subtitles, I wouldn’t be able to decipher half her dialogue. Enunciate, girl!

I was thinking the same thing, that Elizabeth is overshadowed in the acting. A shame, considering she’s the titled character. They’ve chosen a great set of actors otherwise. I’m liking all the side characters too.

Good riddance to Thomas Seymour. He was smug to the end, thinking he could do whatever he pleased and that his brother would always save him, that there would be no consequences for him. I wasn’t sure whether to feel sorry for him at his realization that this time he wouldn’t be saved, or whether to cheer. Tom Cullen was fantastic in the role, playing all the emotions so well. I will miss the actor if not the character.

Edited July 18, 2022 by ferjy

[Haleth]

7 hours ago, jenn31 said:

Great episode. I’m really enjoying the series. So many good actors. But I’m having trouble with the actress playing Elizabeth. She pales in comparison to the others. It may be her voice. Everyone else has strong bold voices but her voice keeps cracking and half the time it drains to a whisper. If not for the subtitles, I wouldn’t be able to decipher half her dialogue. Enunciate, girl!

I agree with your whole post.  I don't know if Alicia von Rittberg was directed to have such a little girl voice to convey youth and naivite but it's annoying.  She definitely pales in comparison to the fantastic acting of John Heffernan as Somerset, Romola Garai as Mary, and Jamie Parker as Dudley.  I guess it's part of the "becoming" process.  Aside from this I am enjoying the show very much.  I say it every week, the best scenes are with the siblings together.  Their dynamic is fascinating.

I didn't know Robert's wife's name but I do know her fate.  Should these allusions be spoiler tagged?

That poor bird.  Edward, you had my sympathy until then.

[Spartan Girl]

I really wish Elizabeth burning the letter was more about realizing what a creepy scumbag asshole Thomas was and not just to save face to Edward. Come on Elizabeth, the sex/rape was clearly awful, he didn’t give a crap about Catherine, and he shot a dog. His harebrained scheme to kidnap the king put you in danger. I know you were groomed and all, but seriously, good riddance. 

On 7/17/2022 at 3:35 AM, Glade said:

Seeing the title of Thomas' final letter reminded me of Cate Blanchett screaming "I am no man's Elizabeth!" when she was the recipient of those words.  But the writing and accuracy here is so much better then her two Elizabeth movies/The Tudors. 

Inaccurate or not that was my favorite part of the movie.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[tennisgurl]

Elizabeth really is...becoming Elizabeth. Insisting on Thomas's execution to make sure everyone knew where her loyalties are was brutal, but I cant say that Thomas didn't have it coming. What a scumbag, no matter what his "plan" was when he entered the kings chambers, that guy has no one else to blame for losing his head than himself. He was a smug ass up until the very end, convinced that he could somehow weasel his way out of trouble with his charm and connections, I ended up cheering when his head hit the chopping block. I love how him being such a dick to people really backfired on him, hardly anyone wanted to speak in his favor, Elizabeth threw him under the bus, and his servant told the truth about the letter he left Elizabeth, and even held his head down to meet the axe. The kid looked terrified every time he spoke to him, no wonder he took the opportunity to get back at Thomas at the last second. I usually feel bad for whoever ends up on the chopping block on Tudor shows, but I have no sympathy for Thomas. 

The kid playing Edward is great, his scenes are always so fascinating, you never know where they're going to go. He can be creepy, like with that poor bird, or they can be sympathetic. He might be the king, but he is very much a child who looks at the world through a childish lens, so he sees things like his uncles betrayal and the uprising in simplistic "they're doing this because they hate me" and not the more complicated issues of trying to force religion on the nations poor or that his uncle is a power hungry dog killing dick. 

Even Edward finds the amount of people around who have the same name confusing. 

 It certainly is interesting to think of what would have happened if Mary had stayed on as Protector.

[CountryGirl]

This was the strongest episode of the series thus far. One where I found myself saying, "Finally! Something's happening!" And this said as someone who has greatly enjoyed the series as a whole.

Thomas continuing to be an idiotic chucklefuck, even as brother Edward attempted to find some shred of an out for him, showing the dynamic between the brothers.

Edward VI, showing his father's capacity for cruelty by ordering the falcon to be skinned alive, which show chose to portray on screen. That was so many levels of awful and for him to do that after his beloved pet was murdered by Thomas??? It might be mean, but I'm glad he didn't have a long reign. Lord knows what he would have ended up doing.

I would have liked Elizabeth's being questioned to be more drawn out, but I get TPTB wanting to move things along. Interesting that John Dudley shares some details of Kat's confession before questioning Elizabeth, including Thomas' inappropriate behavior (which is putting it mildly) and referencing the "will never not be a million times abusive and gross" incident where Thomas cut Elizabeth's dress off of her while the late and not so great Katherine Parr held her still. I am still WTAF about this.

I loved how Elizabeth dodges the line of questioning where Dudley is trying to make the leap from Thomas wanting to marry Elizabeth to the kidnap attempt on the king. And then out-and-out denying it when Dudley indicates one of them must be guilty. Elizabeth has learned from her mother's example, young though she may be and yes, foolish and reckless at times, but I'm putting most of the blame on Thomas with a side of Katherine - the actual adults in the equation) and is all about self-preservation in this moment and this is one of the key moments that leads to her becoming QEI.

I love how she laid it out for Dudley in a nice little package, that he acted inappropriately, that he proposed, and she had no inkling of his bonkers plan to kidnap her brother. Then the infamous quote/barb about Thomas "he's a man of much wit, but very little judgment." Indeed.

Then, she ups the ante by saying that if he tried to abduct the king, he deserves to die. Yep, she went there, and I like to think that her own life possibly being in jeopardy due to Thomas' actions have removed the blinders from her eyes and she sees Thomas for who he really is, a power-hungry abuser.

John Heffernan as elder brother Edward was so good this episode, showing so many emotions. Annoyance and anger at his brother, but fear for him as well. Concern for his own position and yes, his own neck. Him having to sign his own brother's death warrant after their nephew, the king, has already done so, in the bathtub no less, was something. Give him all the Emmys please.

I know I shouldn't ship them but I did like the small scene where Robert says goodbye to Elizabeth before heading up to Norfolk with his father and brother to quash the rebellion. I know what's coming but it hasn't happened in show yet and I need some kind of romance after the crapfest that was Thomas creeping on Elizabeth. It's cute to see Robert pining for Elizabeth even as he does grouse (and not wrongfully so) about her seeming to still have a care about about Thomas when he doesn't deserve it and hasn't earned it aka Thomas SUCKS. 

Of course, in the next scene, Robert starts pining for new gal on the scene - Amy. Oh dear. But at least this Amy seems to have a bit of a personality, including thoughts on politics (although killing all the rebel peasants, not a great look, Amy). 

We have our first of three Tudor sibling scenes and these scenes are my number one reason to watch this series.

First up is a visit to Edward to try to start to smooth things over and that startled look for just a nanosecond by Alicia when she sees Mary is there and WTF does that mean??? Romola as Mary's expression are even more priceless this episode as she basically "I told you sos" and "you should've crashed with me" Elizabeth. Edward suggests his uncle rot in the Tower for the rest of his life and Elizabeth is "death to traitors" and watching Mary's expression from "DAMN, GIRL!" surprise to amusement to "that's my little sister" pride is a mood. Oliver is so good, too (I can't really find a weak link among the cast) and he gives shades of their father in his listening to Elizabeth push for death for Thomas.

I think Elizabeth's motives are less striking back at her abuser (as I don't know that she fully gets what he did to her and is still doing to her on some psychological level) but more about wanting to distance herself from him forever for her own sake - and safety.

Mary as a potential LP replacement was something I wasn't aware of (anyone know if it was true?) but oh, her face, again. Doing so much acting without saying a single word. But she does remark how terribly their father treated her and she wants to keep Edward safe from that. I will always believe the Tudor siblings had much affection for one another, despite the BSC circumstances, probably because of them, and I love scenes that showcase this. Her eyes, darting to the throne time and again when she's first faced with the prospect and again, in front of the council. So close, she can almost taste it. That moment where she coolly tells Edward that his brother (about to be executed) is waiting for him. Stone-cold boss. Give Romola all the Emmys as well.

Apparently, Edward has learned nothing from his idiot brother and decides to snatch the king when he learns of the possibility of Mary replacing him as LP plot. So he's not even there at his own brother's execution because he's doing roughly the same thing that got his brother beheaded. It's almost too much to wrap my head around. Of course, it's really just talk and Mary has to do some "I told you so" to herself when Dudley makes himself LP. But he did ask Edward VI first. 

Thomas trying to get a note to Elizabeth before his head is chopped off. Sounds about right for him and I'm glad his plan was ultimately foiled because while she does get the note, she doesn't read it.

Another Tudor sibling scene as Mary waits Elizabeth, both of them knowing the execution is happening. I liked how Mary calmly read and only after she was sure it was over did she move to comfort her sister as only she can, her words "what cannot be cured must be endured," giving the episode its title, and these have been words to live by since she was a young girl. 

Then she adds, "When you were a child, you loved to hold my hand.....you still can." That got me a little teary and again, this is my main reason to watch. These children of Katherine of Aragon, Anne Boleyn, and Jane Seymour and their scenes make this series.

And we have yet another Tudor sibling scene where Elizabeth does a bit more damage control and visits Edward again. He offers the note and she does the only thing she can do, which is to tell him these are the last words of a traitor and tosses it into the fire. And they hug and Edward seems much more the boy he is than the tyrant he is becoming (or I would dare say, given the falcon, already become). Again, a testament to Oliver here.

How are there only two episodes left???

[susannot]

Very good recap CountryGirl.   

[LadyAmalthea]

I really wish this was equally about all three Tudor siblings, because really Elizabeth is the least interesting part of it and I spend her scenes just wanting to get back to Mary and Edward. A think a great deal of it is in the casting - they can say Elizabeth is 15 all they like, but Alicia von Rittberg is a fully grown woman and it lessens the impact of Seymour's predation. Even the contrast with Bella Ramsey (who plays Jane Grey, and is 19) is more effective to show what a creep he was and how vulnerable Elizabeth was to his grooming.   

On 7/17/2022 at 5:05 PM, Glade said:

The actor playing King Edward is so good, all of his scenes are fascinating and powerful.  I had no idea that Mary was almost Lord Protector; obviously things would have gone very differently if she was. 

I believe this is an invention of the show.

[taanja]

On 7/20/2022 at 1:40 AM, LadyAmalthea said:

I really wish this was equally about all three Tudor siblings, because really Elizabeth is the least interesting part of it and I spend her scenes just wanting to get back to Mary and Edward. A think a great deal of it is in the casting - they can say Elizabeth is 15 all they like, but Alicia von Rittberg is a fully grown woman and it lessens the impact of Seymour's predation. Even the contrast with Bella Ramsey (who plays Jane Grey, and is 19) is more effective to show what a creep he was and how vulnerable Elizabeth was to his grooming.   

I believe this is an invention of the show.

Say what???!! LOL ;-)

It's called -- Becoming Elizabeth -- because it's about Elizabeth Tudor. << I personally am watching this show because of my fascination for all things Elizabeth I

Mary (her nickname was "Bloody Mary") and Edward were disasters as rulers. Though i must say the actress playing Mary is quite compelling.

Oh and the actor playing Thomas Seymour is/was great! Exactly as I pictured him when I read historical accounts of his and Elizabeth's relationship and his death. Dude was diddling the little girl when she was like 13 - 14 years old! 

Elizabeth --  the virgin queen - yeah right! There were many rumors during her life of sexual relationships with men and even a rumored pregnancy or two.

Anyway for the most part i am finding this show is decently historically accurate. I hate when historical shows play fast and loose with historical characters. Like making up drama for the sake of drama when the real historical facts are as dramatic as hell - so no need to embellish!

Edited July 21, 2022 by taanja

[Norma Desmond]

I find Elizabeth extremely unlikable. Everything about her, her, behavior, her personality - bleargh.

Another minor peeve: in the scene with Mary, after Mary says "what cannot be cured, must be endured", Elizabeth says "I shall endeavor to remember that, *Mary*" with such a weird emphasis on *Mary*. I know it's an acting choice, probably dictated by the director, but it makes no sense to me. Maybe the dislike I have for the character soured my perception of the actress. Or maybe it is that next to the marvelous Romola Garai, she looks like the weakest link. Also, she tends to whisper a lot of her lines (which is an annoying trait of many actors when they want to convey *emotion*)

[cardigirl]

No new episode this week? I was unaware the show was skipping a week. Boo!

[LadyAmalthea]

On 7/22/2022 at 3:07 AM, taanja said:

Say what???!! LOL ;-)

It's called -- Becoming Elizabeth -- because it's about Elizabeth Tudor. << I personally am watching this show because of my fascination for all things Elizabeth I

Mary (her nickname was "Bloody Mary") and Edward were disasters as rulers. Though i must say the actress playing Mary is quite compelling.

Oh and the actor playing Thomas Seymour is/was great! Exactly as I pictured him when I read historical accounts of his and Elizabeth's relationship and his death. Dude was diddling the little girl when she was like 13 - 14 years old! 

Elizabeth --  the virgin queen - yeah right! There were many rumors during her life of sexual relationships with men and even a rumored pregnancy or two.

Anyway for the most part i am finding this show is decently historically accurate. I hate when historical shows play fast and loose with historical characters. Like making up drama for the sake of drama when the real historical facts are as dramatic as hell - so no need to embellish!

Yes, I wish they’d made the show focusing on all three siblings, under a different title obviously. Elizabeth has been done to death.  

[Razzberry]

I finally got caught up and now they're taking a break.  Really enjoying it so far, even though it seemed like "Becoming Thomas" for a while.   It was hard to watch a queen and a princess both losing their minds over that maniac.  Was glad when he finally got the axe, to be honest. 

Didn't care for their depiction of Katherine Parr either.   She always seemed so responsible and all about education.  Alison Weir takes the view that her behavior can be explained by the fact she'd never been in love before, despite being widowed several times, and Thomas must have been incredibly charismatic.  So she was blinded by love, at least for a while, until the day she caught them in an intimate embrace or something.  

[MamaMax]

hey all, if you're interested there's a podcast called Not Just the Tudors, there is an episode called "A Tudor Scandal: Did Thomas Seymour Groom Elizabeth Tudor?" 

[Razzberry]

4 hours ago, MamaMax said:

hey all, if you're interested there's a podcast called Not Just the Tudors, there is an episode called "A Tudor Scandal: Did Thomas Seymour Groom Elizabeth Tudor?" 

Thanks for the heads up.  Looking for it I came across another episode about Katherine Parr that covers the scandal, Parr, Seymore, Elizabeth, Henry.   Very interesting.   On Google Play, no signup needed.

Not Just the Tudors: Kateryn Parr: Henry VIII's Sixth Queen

Edited July 29, 2022 by Razzberry

[Scarlett45]

On 7/17/2022 at 2:35 AM, Glade said:

But the writing and accuracy here is so much better then her two Elizabeth movies/The Tudors. 

I did like Sara Bolger in The Tudors though. We don’t get much of teenage Mary Tudor and she did a lot with it. 

On 7/17/2022 at 7:36 PM, PinkRibbons said:

Finally, enter Amy Robsart! I didn't expect to see her and she was an interesting choice. She tends to be romanticized as a very sad and submissive, even frightened creature. And maybe we'll see how she devolves to that state. As a young woman however, it's a nice trick of writing having her be kind of an Achievable Elizabeth for Robert. She's got similar beauty, vivaciousness, wit, charm and if not the same level of intelligence, enough to make Robert give her the eye. She's also missing the sadness that necessarily permeates through  Elizabeth at this point in her life. I look forward to seeing how that goes.

Yes I agree! I like her so far. 

[andromeda331]

Zero sympathy for Thomas. He had it coming. That was for the dog too Thomas!

Oh, Edward, you destroyed my like for you by what you did to that bird. Leave that bird alone.  

I liked Mary coming and staying with Elizabeth through the execution. I liked her telling Elizabeth how she used to hold her hand when she was little and she still could. That was really nice. 

 I'm not a fan of Edward S. but his reaction to his brother was really good and unexpected.