S06.E08: Point and Shoot

[Eulipian 5k]

22 hours ago, SimplexFish said:

he sure seemed to be going at a leisurely pace with Gus and the filming

Bravo Gus! By adding his little F.U. to Don Eladio, he enticed Lalo into extending his Tik-Tok. "Oh I gotta squeeze this part in...".

Lalo is more a James Bond villain than a Neal Cauley.

[Lalo Lives]

Perhaps I’m oversimplifying things, but it seems that if Kim defends Jimmy, the listener is doomed.

Chuck re: 1216 vs 1261 Rosella scheme

Howard re:  the will and 5000 bucks (and a litany of other things)

Lalo re: get your “stuff” in order

not many people left for her to tell off, but if I lived in Albuquerque, I’d not get in a conversation with her.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Lalo Lives
Spelling

[SimplexFish]

17 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

In a way, Jimmy and Kim's tricks against Howard argue against them having a motive to kill him. It's not even like it led to his death, exactly. I mean, it literally did in that if they hadn't done it Howard wouldn't have been at their house at the absolute worst moment, but it's not like if the drug they slipped him killed him, for instance.

Or if he had actually did commit suicide because of his business life being ruined because of their BS

[SimplexFish]

I cant go with the vacuum cleaner disappearance for Kim, if she indeed needed his services wouldn't it only be for the reason that she is implicated in Howards death? (Or am I missing another reason?) 

So if Kim is implicated and facing arrest, Saul would be right there as well and probably even more involved in the eyes of the authorities. Its obvious that nothing like that happened to him based on his character in BB. 

Edited July 14, 2022 by SimplexFish

[Ailianna]

I have no idea why people think the FBI would have anything to do with Howard's disappearance. Just because he lives in one state and his car and apparent suicide are in another doesn't create a federal case. No federal laws would be implicated. No jurisdiction or reason for the FBI. Wherever that beach was, the local police for that area would get the case. If it's a small department, they might ask for help from the state police. Howard's local importance in Albuquerque would have minimal impact, because it is so far away. It's a decent suicide plot, and there really isn't much incentive for that local police department to go crazy with hair follicle tests (with limited legal value), or search warrants for people who are, apparently, hours and miles away from his death. 

I think there will be consequences, but not from the police.

[Cinnabon]

3 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Bravo Gus! By adding his little F.U. to Don Eladio, he enticed Lalo into extending his Tik-Tok. "Oh I gotta squeeze this part in...".

Lalo is more a James Bond villain than a Neal Cauley.

Tik Tok?

[Cinnabon]

2 hours ago, SimplexFish said:

Or if he had actually did commit suicide because of his business life being ruined because of their BS

Howard himself stated that he knew he would get past it. Even if he had been addicted , he could have gone to rehab. An expensive rehab. There have been lots and lots of wealthy business people addicted to  cocaine over the years, and they were able to recover their careers. I don’t think his career would’ve been ruined forever. 

1 hour ago, Ailianna said:

I have no idea why people think the FBI would have anything to do with Howard's disappearance. Just because he lives in one state and his car and apparent suicide are in another doesn't create a federal case. No federal laws would be implicated. No jurisdiction or reason for the FBI. Wherever that beach was, the local police for that area would get the case. If it's a small department, they might ask for help from the state police. Howard's local importance in Albuquerque would have minimal impact, because it is so far away. It's a decent suicide plot, and there really isn't much incentive for that local police department to go crazy with hair follicle tests (with limited legal value), or search warrants for people who are, apparently, hours and miles away from his death. 

I think there will be consequences, but not from the police.

Exactly- it would be out of Albuquerque’s jurisdiction.

[SimplexFish]

11 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Howard himself stated that he knew he would get past it. Even if he had been addicted , he could have gone to rehab. An expensive rehab. There have been lots and lots of wealthy business people addicted to  cocaine over the years, and they were able to recover their careers. I don’t think his career would’ve been ruined forever. 

Well true, but my point was to agree with Sistermagpie, that nothing K&S did had anything to do with Howard dying, that was all Lalo, Howard was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. If he wasn't there he would be alive doing whatever he normally does and Lalo would have still carried out his plan that night. 

Edited July 14, 2022 by SimplexFish

[Eulipian 5k]

Has Lalo been underground for every episode this season ? (He’s certainly there for the rest of the series)!

[Starchild]

48 minutes ago, SimplexFish said:

Howard was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. 

Because of Kim & Jimmy. If they hadn't pulled their long con on him, he'd still be alive.

Not the kind of cause and effect that would land them in jail, but any decent human being would feel horrible guilt over it.

[scenario]

43 minutes ago, Starchild said:

Because of Kim & Jimmy. If they hadn't pulled their long con on him, he'd still be alive.

Not the kind of cause and effect that would land them in jail, but any decent human being would feel horrible guilt over it.

The problem I have with that argument is that Howard was killed because he happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. If Jimmy and Kim had invited him and his wife over for dinner the same thing would have happened. 

What Jimmy and Kim did was wrong but Howard's death is not their fault. Lots of other things are though. 

[Constantinople]

12 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Perhaps this is an unpopular opinion but I will be disappointed if the “vacuum man” solution is used for Kim. It shouldn’t be the definitive storytelling choice for the main characters in this universe. I think - I hope - that these writers are better that.

I agree.

It's been used as a plot point six times in Breaking Bad, El Camino and Better Call Saul: twice for Walt, twice for Jesse and twice for Saul. Each of them went through with it once and backed out once. Enough already.

I would rather have a god descend from the sky and whisk Kim away than have the Disappearer called again.

[Cinnabon]

49 minutes ago, Starchild said:

Because of Kim & Jimmy. If they hadn't pulled their long con on him, he'd still be alive.

Not the kind of cause and effect that would land them in jail, but any decent human being would feel horrible guilt over it.

A friend of mine asked her parents to come by her place and help her fix something years ago. They were in a crash on the way there and were killed. Was that her fault? She felt guilty, but it was just a tragedy and she wasn’t to blame (as everyone told her over and over for years).

[SimplexFish]

16 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

I would rather have a god descend from the sky and whisk Kim away than have the Disappearer called again.

I think Satan would be more fitting to whisk Kim away...but yeah enough with the vacuum man, give it a rest

[Starchild]

50 minutes ago, scenario said:

The problem I have with that argument is that Howard was killed because he happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. If Jimmy and Kim had invited him and his wife over for dinner the same thing would have happened. 

What Jimmy and Kim did was wrong but Howard's death is not their fault. Lots of other things are though. 

43 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

A friend of mine asked her parents to come by her place and help her fix something years ago. They were in a crash on the way there and were killed. Was that her fault? She felt guilty, but it was just a tragedy and she wasn’t to blame (as everyone told her over and over for years).

I get what y'all are saying, I do, but random dinner invitations and family visits are one thing. It's quite another to engage in deceitful, damaging behaviour that just so happens to lead to even more dire circumstances than intended. 

They were already doing something they never should have been doing, and that it resulted, even tangentially, in their victim's death, should have them on their knees begging for forgiveness from the karma gods. 

If I were Cinnabon's friend, I would not blame myself for what happened, as nothing I did to bring my loved ones to me was ill-intentioned. If I were J&K, I definitely would. They didn't need to do what they did to him, it was for kicks, like he said, and they know Howard would never have ended up in their condo at the same time as Lalo (unexpected as he may have been) if they had just left him alone.

Although, of course, if I were J&K I clearly would be able to compartmentalize the shit out if it.

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, Starchild said:

Because of Kim & Jimmy. If they hadn't pulled their long con on him, he'd still be alive.

Not the kind of cause and effect that would land them in jail, but any decent human being would feel horrible guilt over it.

49 minutes ago, Starchild said:

I get what y'all are saying, I do, but random dinner invitations and family visits are one thing. It's quite another to engage in deceitful, damaging behaviour that just so happens to lead to even more dire circumstances than intended. 

They were already doing something they never should have been doing, and that it resulted, even tangentially, in their victim's death, should have them on their knees begging for forgiveness from the karma gods. 

Speaking for myself, that is basically what I meant--that it would make perfect sense for Kim and Jimmy to blame themselves for Howard's death since he was at their house because of a mean trick they pulled on him, and that brought him into contact with a deadly person when he had no reason to think he should have been in danger there.

But I was saying that from the pov of a murder investigation, there's no particular motive to follow with them because they didn't want to kill him at all and his murder had nothing to do with any plan of theirs. He didn't die from a reaction to the drug they gave him; he didn't commit suicide because their trick sent him over the edge they didn't realize he was that close to. The actual murder was wrong place wrong time, even if the set up to that was the scam they ran--and was over.

[Dev F]

2 hours ago, scenario said:

The problem I have with that argument is that Howard was killed because he happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. If Jimmy and Kim had invited him and his wife over for dinner the same thing would have happened.

But they never would have done that, because they both hated Howard and made it abundantly clear that they never wanted to have any social contact with him. If Lalo had killed, say, a neighbor who stopped by because she heard shouting, that would be one thing, but he killed someone who would never in a million years have been there if Mr. and Mrs. Goodman hadn't undertaken a long and overly complicated plan to destroy him.

What's more, Lalo wasn't just some murderous stranger who barged into Kim's condo at random. His being there was also the result of an extensive string of bad decisions by both Jimmy and Kim. It's nothing they could've anticipated and certainly not something they wanted to happen, but that doesn't change the fact that it wouldn't have happened if at some point along the line either one of them had been just a modicum less shitty.

Which is one of the major points of this last season: the characters imagining that they're in control of their destinies because they've planned out every move so carefully, when in fact, all they've done is build a tower of bad choices that's going to come crashing down.

"You build it too high, your marble's gonna run off the track."
"It's not finished. When it's finished, it'll work"

Even Gus, the most careful planner of them all, is wrong to think that he can scheme his way out of trouble. Thus far he's the only one who's gotten the better of circumstance through his foresight, planting the gun that takes Lalo down. In the end, it did work for him. Except that we know what he doesn't: this isn't the end, and eventually the superlab for which Lalo and Howard died will be his undoing as well. Over a long enough timeline, everyone's marble is going to jump the track, and they have only themselves to blame for building it so high.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Dev F

[PeterPirate]

9 hours ago, Dev F said:

What's more, Lalo wasn't just some murderous stranger who barged into Kim's condo at random. His being there was also the result of an extensive string of bad decisions by both Jimmy and Kim. It's nothing they could've anticipated and certainly not something they wanted to happen, but that doesn't change the fact that it wouldn't have happened if at some point along the line either one of them had been just a modicum less shitty. 

Indeed.  And Lalo wasn't free just because of "bad decisions".  J&K both participated in a crime to get him free.  They are partially responsible for every crime he committed after that, including Howard's murder.  They are criminals.  

Edited July 14, 2022 by PeterPirate

[Milburn Stone]

14 hours ago, SimplexFish said:

Or if he had actually did commit suicide because of his business life being ruined because of their BS

You raise the possibility that J&K may be in more trouble if the death is ruled a suicide than if the death is determined to be murder! Good point.

9 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

hey were in a crash on the way there and were killed. Was that her fault? She felt guilty, but it was just a tragedy and she wasn’t to blame (as everyone told her over and over for years).

The key phrase being "over and over for years." The guilt never goes away. Even if you try to bury it, like we know Jimmy did.

[nodorothyparker]

Howard's murder is another one of those unintended consequences that this universe loves so much to show us. Jimmy and Kim didn't mean for anything to happen to Howard beyond humiliation and a quickie settlement for them. Yet their actions put him in the path of Lalo, who wouldn't be out free to kill more people if Jimmy hadn't knowingly defended him under a fake identity after getting increasingly entangled with criminals and with Kim's blessing.  Under normal circumstances, there never would have been any reason for Lalo and Howard's paths to ever cross. Those two very separate worlds collide only because of their actions.

That's why Lalo and Howard ending up side by side in an unmarked grave under the house, er lab that Gus built is so poetic regardless of how you may otherwise feel about it. They're representative of the two halves of the Jimmy to Saul story forever linked and laid out together. Because that scene is also now up on YouTube, I love that in how they're dumped Howard's body looks almost like it's throwing a punch at Lalo's body, which is bent almost as if he's already taken a hit to the gut. It's another reminder of Howard's last attempt to settle things with Jimmy in what he considered a fair and reasonable manner, even if he remarked at the time that he knew that wouldn't be the end of it.

[peeayebee]

8 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

But I was saying that from the pov of a murder investigation, there's no particular motive to follow with them because they didn't want to kill him at all and his murder had nothing to do with any plan of theirs. He didn't die from a reaction to the drug they gave him; he didn't commit suicide because their trick sent him over the edge they didn't realize he was that close to. The actual murder was wrong place wrong time, even if the set up to that was the scam they ran--and was over.

Yes, and this explains better to me why I don't want to see much of a police investigation into Howard's death, because the interesting thing is not the illegal stuff J&K did, but the immoral choices they made. Watching the different ways they respond to the guilt is what I'm looking forward to. 

Of course there will be outside forces confronting them. There may be interaction with police, but I don't see that being a major threat, illegally, but a provocation for their consciences.

[PeterPirate]

14 hours ago, SimplexFish said:

I cant go with the vacuum cleaner disappearance for Kim, if she indeed needed his services wouldn't it only be for the reason that she is implicated in Howards death? (Or am I missing another reason?) 

So if Kim is implicated and facing arrest, Saul would be right there as well and probably even more involved in the eyes of the authorities. Its obvious that nothing like that happened to him based on his character in BB. 

I'm thinking Kim might work for Gus as a lawyer, and will be disappeared during Gus' trouble with the cartel.  Just a thought.  

[nodorothyparker]

I don't have any opinion yet on Kim's eventual fate and probably won't until I see how it plays out, but I am curious to see what it means for Jimmy and especially Kim now that they're on Gus's radar.

We know he was at least marginally aware of Jimmy/Saul before but they've never had any actual dealings. To the best of my knowledge, he would have had no reason to know or care anything about Kim at all. But now she's been inside his fake house and was strong-armed into attempting to kill someone matching his description. She's a smart capable attorney who when she finally has time to think about it can probably presume that had everything to do with the cartel. That's a lot of loose ends for someone as fastidious as Gus is, especially when he just narrowly escaped being killed.

[Eulipian 5k]

2 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

We know he was at least marginally aware of Jimmy/Saul before but they've never had any actual dealings.

Saul set up the meeting of Walt and Gus thru an "I know a guy , who knows a guy". Mike knows Gus, I don't remember Saul  dealing directly with Gus in BrBa.; and I don't see Gus having any interest in Kim. The Lalo affair took Jimmy out of the "Friend of the Cartel" mode. Saul wants to be a money launderer and keeper of the Veterinarian's black book.

[PeterPirate]

44 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Saul set up the meeting of Walt and Gus thru an "I know a guy , who knows a guy". Mike knows Gus, I don't remember Saul  dealing directly with Gus in BrBa.; 

Gus and Saul never meet in BB.  In one episode of season 4 (I forget which), Saul asks Walt about Fring, but there's no clear explanation of how Saul comes to know of Gus' existence.  

44 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

I don't see Gus having any interest in Kim. 

Why not?  She's hot as hell.

Oh, wait.  Max.

Edited July 14, 2022 by PeterPirate

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Yes, and this explains better to me why I don't want to see much of a police investigation into Howard's death, because the interesting thing is not the illegal stuff J&K did, but the immoral choices they made. Watching the different ways they respond to the guilt is what I'm looking forward to. 

Of course there will be outside forces confronting them. There may be interaction with police, but I don't see that being a major threat, illegally, but a provocation for their consciences.

Right, that's how it seems to me too, that having too much legal involvement almost takes the heat off the real heart of things, which is their moral culpability, which Howard had just laid out to them before he died. If they're trying to cover up the crime it would, imo, send them back into scam mode and feeling justified because the world is against them. (Which I guess could be the point if it goes that way.)

[BradandJanet]

There's still the matter of Gene at Cinnabon. Unless the vacuum guy sent Kim to Minnesota before Saul, I have a feeling that Kim is dead or in jail by that point. Maybe it's the end of Saul too. 

[scenario]

17 minutes ago, BradandJanet said:

There's still the matter of Gene at Cinnabon. Unless the vacuum guy sent Kim to Minnesota before Saul, I have a feeling that Kim is dead or in jail by that point. Maybe it's the end of Saul too. 

I doubt Kim is in jail. She knows about Gus now. I think she either dies, joins the cartel or disappears. I'm not a big fan of disappearing. 

[Ellaria]

3 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

That's why Lalo and Howard ending up side by side in an unmarked grave under the house, er lab that Gus built is so poetic regardless of how you may otherwise feel about it. They're representative of the two halves of the Jimmy to Saul story forever linked and laid out together. Because that scene is also now up on YouTube, I love that in how they're dumped Howard's body looks almost like it's throwing a punch at Lalo's body, which is bent almost as if he's already taken a hit to the gut. It's another reminder of Howard's last attempt to settle things with Jimmy in what he considered a fair and reasonable manner, even if he remarked at the time that he knew that wouldn't be the end of it.

Well said. I love the symbolism of being the two halves of Jimmy/Saul.

3 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Yes, and this explains better to me why I don't want to see much of a police investigation into Howard's death, because the interesting thing is not the illegal stuff J&K did, but the immoral choices they made. Watching the different ways they respond to the guilt is what I'm looking forward to. 

Of course there will be outside forces confronting them. There may be interaction with police, but I don't see that being a major threat, illegally, but a provocation for their consciences.

Agree. There will be things happening around them in their normal routine (the courthouse, etc) as Mike pointed out. How they respond to these outside forces, the rumors, the questions will be fascinating. We will find out if Kim is truly made of “sterner stuff.” How will the guilt affect them individually and their relationship? 

38 minutes ago, scenario said:

I doubt Kim is in jail. She knows about Gus now. I think she either dies, joins the cartel or disappears. I'm not a big fan of disappearing. 

And Gus knows about her. Does he perceive her to be a loose end or a potential asset? 

[Eulipian 5k]

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

And Gus knows about her. Does he perceive her to be a loose end or a potential asset? 

Kim has never seen Gus; she thinks Gus' body double is Gus. There's no reason to meet her; he didn't meet Jimmy in BrBa. This is a time for Kim to get herself OUT of this sh#te once and for (until she meets up with Gene.😉)

btw: Robt Forster is RIP so pleeze, let's NOT see, or speak of, the, or another disappearer, please?

Edited July 14, 2022 by Eulipian 5k

[scenario]

54 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Kim has never seen Gus; she thinks Gus' body double is Gus. There's no reason to meet her; he didn't meet Jimmy in BrBa. This is a time for Kim to get herself OUT of this sh#te once and for (until she meets up with Gene.😉)

btw: Robt Forster is RIP so pleeze, let's NOT see, or speak of, the, or another disappearer, please?

She knows about Gus. She can tell the police that Lalo sent her to kill a man wearing glasses at a certain address and it was full of armed people. That address is connected to Gus, directly or indirectly. That is a loose end. 

[SimplexFish]

I cant remember Gus' home from previous episodes... the black door, that was his actually home isn't it? Not the safe house next door? 

Side note...Gus' body double is terrible. Besides him being a black man with round frame glasses that's where the resemblance stops, LOL

Edited July 14, 2022 by SimplexFish

[scenario]

50 minutes ago, SimplexFish said:

I cant remember Gus' home from previous episodes... the black door, that was his actually home isn't it? Not the safe house next door? 

Side note...Gus' body double is terrible. Besides him being a black man with round frame glasses that's where the resemblance stops, LOL

He's only there for people looking at a distance. Seeing a shadow behind the blinds. Somebody looking at the house from a distance will be able to see someone in there. A superficial resemblance is all you need. 

When Kim walked up they knew she was coming long before she got to the door and were ready.

[Andre LaPlume]

Kim is a loose end for Gus but that doesn’t that apply to Saul as well?  I don’t see Gus killing Kim and not Saul.  

[scenario]

1 hour ago, Andre LaPlume said:

Kim is a loose end for Gus but that doesn’t that apply to Saul as well?  I don’t see Gus killing Kim and not Saul.  

Saul was the one who got Lalo out of prison. 

Saul's story is that the serial killer he got out of prison broke into his house, killed one of Saul's co-workers and then forced Saul's wife to try to kill some unnamed person at some address.

Kim's story is a stranger broke in, forced her to try to kill an unknown person and when I got there a whole bunch of armed people  to stopped me.

Saul's story sounds like someone grasping at straws. Kim sound like she got herself mixed up with drug dealers. 

[Bannon]

On 7/13/2022 at 5:54 PM, Ailianna said:

I have no idea why people think the FBI would have anything to do with Howard's disappearance. Just because he lives in one state and his car and apparent suicide are in another doesn't create a federal case. No federal laws would be implicated. No jurisdiction or reason for the FBI. Wherever that beach was, the local police for that area would get the case. If it's a small department, they might ask for help from the state police. Howard's local importance in Albuquerque would have minimal impact, because it is so far away. It's a decent suicide plot, and there really isn't much incentive for that local police department to go crazy with hair follicle tests (with limited legal value), or search warrants for people who are, apparently, hours and miles away from his death. 

I think there will be consequences, but not from the police.

The FBI assists in cases involving multiple states with great regularity, even if there are no Federal offenses in play. 

[Lalo Lives]

Did anybody notice Saul/Jimmy paraphrasing Mike in the latest teaser?

Or is it so obvious and I need more medication?

[PeterPirate]

On 7/12/2022 at 6:26 PM, Starchild said:

Y'all it just occurred to me that we could be seeing some Macbeth shit up in here with Jimmy and Kim.

Lady Macbeth pushes her husband into an evil deed. He doesn't really want to but she manipulates him into it. At the beginning she's all steel. Then as things start to go sideways, he screws his courage to the sticking place and gets on with it, while she starts seeing invisible blood on her hands, goes nuts and offs herself. (Spoiler)

I wonder if J&K will follow a similar path.

After all, as I said in a comment on episode 1 of this season, this show is poetry.

Until this episode I was hoping Kim would follow in Lady Macbeth's footsteps.  I figured that if Kim went crazy, it would mean she still had a conscience that was telling her to stop doing what she was doing.  

But now things have changed in my mind.  Kim had the opportunity to get the help of the police, and she didn't.  She attempted to carry out her mission and even drew the gun.  She is indeed made of sterner stuff.  Conscience be damned.  

On the flip side, one reviewer video pointed out that until this season she always made sure she was outdoors when she smoked cigarettes, but now she is smoking indoors.  So maybe she is cracking up.

Edited July 15, 2022 by PeterPirate

[peeayebee]

I think it's still possible for Kim to go the Lady Macbeth route. Yes, she could have talked to the police, but she was too scared of doing anything other than what Lalo wanted. I can see her going either way. She could be so appalled that she was going to shoot someone that she cracks. Or she could just bury it deep down and keep on keeping on. 

[SimplexFish]

3 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

On the flip side, one reviewer video pointed out that until this season she always made sure she was outdoors when she smoked cigarettes, but now she is smoking indoors.  So maybe she is cracking up.

Nice observation!

[Cinnabon]

5 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

Until this episode I was hoping Kim would follow in Lady Macbeth's footsteps.  I figured that if Kim went crazy, it would mean she still had a conscience that was telling her to stop doing what she was doing.  

But now things have changed in my mind.  Kim had the opportunity to get the help of the police, and she didn't.  She attempted to carry out her mission and even drew the gun.  She is indeed made of sterner stuff.  Conscience be damned.  

On the flip side, one reviewer video pointed out that until this season she always made sure she was outdoors when she smoked cigarettes, but now she is smoking indoors.  So maybe she is cracking up.

If your wife, mom, sister, your child was being kept captive until you shot someone, would you do differently than Kim did? Knowing that the person holding your child captive wouldn’t hesitate to kill them as soon as the police approached? She just saw him kill Howard in a split second. He would’ve have hesitated to shoot Jimmy (she believed, not knowing Lalo’s real plan). I was just thinking about this, and what if he had my mom or child captive like that. I might do what Kim did, even though like Kim (and Jimmy) I’ve never even held a gun (and don’t ever plan to).

Edited July 15, 2022 by Cinnabon

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

If your wife, mom, sister, your child was being kept captive until you shot someone, would you do differently than Kim did? Knowing that the person holding your child captive wouldn’t hesitate to kill them as soon as the police approached? She just saw him kill Howard in a split second. He would’ve have hesitated to shoot Jimmy (she believed, not knowing Lalo’s real plan). I was just thinking about this, and what if he had my mom or child captive like that. I might do what Kim did, even though like Kim (and Jimmy) I’ve never even held a gun (and don’t ever plan to).

I'm sure Kim would tell the police that if Lalo so much as smelled a cop he would kill Jimmy, so they would have to approach silently maybe even get a sniper on an opposite roof to shoot Lalo through the window.  Police understand hostage situations. Should anyway.

Kim has no reason at all to believe Jimmy will still be alive when she gets back.  In fact from everything she already knows about Lalo Jimmy is dead and he will shoot her the second she gets back with the picture.  Why would he keep them alive?  Three dead people in the apartment would just look like Howard killed them and then himself.

Kim may be in shock but she can still think well enough to drive and follow directions.  So she knows all that. She was going to shoot Gus (or his double) to get the photo because killing someone for her and Jimmy's benefit is no longer that unthinkable to her.  She has broken bad. 

[peeayebee]

Yeah, I can't imagine what I would do. I hope I would have the insight to try to fabricate the photo. Maybe that would lead me to wonder how Lalo could accept a photo as evidence, and then I'd wonder how such a master criminal could NOT do it himself since he's so good about sneaking in and out of places and not getting caught. And then I'd wonder if there was something else he was trying to do...

Yeah, I'm not that smart.

[Cinnabon]

12 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I'm sure Kim would tell the police that if Lalo so much as smelled a cop he would kill Jimmy, so they would have to approach silently maybe even get a sniper on an opposite roof to shoot Lalo through the window.  Police understand hostage situations. Should anyway.

Kim has no reason at all to believe Jimmy will still be alive when she gets back.  In fact from everything she already knows about Lalo Jimmy is dead and he will shoot her the second she gets back with the picture.  Why would he keep them alive?  Three dead people in the apartment would just look like Howard killed them and then himself.

Kim may be in shock but she can still think well enough to drive and follow directions.  So she knows all that. She was going to shoot Gus (or his double) to get the photo because killing someone for her and Jimmy's benefit is no longer that unthinkable to her.  She has broken bad. 

I don’t think it’s possible to know what we would do in that situation. I think she was in tremendous shock, paralyzed by fear, and not able to think clearly, but YMMV.

13 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Yeah, I can't imagine what I would do. I hope I would have the insight to try to fabricate the photo. Maybe that would lead me to wonder how Lalo could accept a photo as evidence, and then I'd wonder how such a master criminal could NOT do it himself since he's so good about sneaking in and out of places and not getting caught. And then I'd wonder if there was something else he was trying to do...

Yeah, I'm not that smart.

He gave her a very strict time limit so that she wouldn’t be able to take the time to figure out how to fake the picture or do much logical thinking about the situation. 

[scenario]

38 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I'm sure Kim would tell the police that if Lalo so much as smelled a cop he would kill Jimmy, so they would have to approach silently maybe even get a sniper on an opposite roof to shoot Lalo through the window.  Police understand hostage situations. Should anyway.

Kim has no reason at all to believe Jimmy will still be alive when she gets back.  In fact from everything she already knows about Lalo Jimmy is dead and he will shoot her the second she gets back with the picture.  Why would he keep them alive?  Three dead people in the apartment would just look like Howard killed them and then himself.

Kim may be in shock but she can still think well enough to drive and follow directions.  So she knows all that. She was going to shoot Gus (or his double) to get the photo because killing someone for her and Jimmy's benefit is no longer that unthinkable to her.  She has broken bad. 

This really comes across a having a touch of blaming the victim. If I was in that situation, I would never have done that. I'd have used my non existent fighting skills to take the gun away from Lalo and stop him.

Kim was terrorized. She was in a total state of panic. She wasn't capable of thinking clearly. People in a state of panic don't think clearly. 

[Cinnabon]

43 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I'm sure Kim would tell the police that if Lalo so much as smelled a cop he would kill Jimmy, so they would have to approach silently maybe even get a sniper on an opposite roof to shoot Lalo through the window.  Police understand hostag

Do you think Kim would’ve been able to clearly explain the situation to the police within 20-30 minutes? After which, could the police set up snipers and hostage negotiators within that very very short timeframe?

[SimplexFish]

56 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Three dead people in the apartment would just look like Howard killed them and then himself.

You realize that this scenario doesn't hold water don't ya?

[hecter salmonca]

Tony Dalton, Patrick Fabian, and Michael Mando deserve every single award they are nominated for 

[Colorado David]

I think Kim is going to leave Jimmy and move away to be alone. 

[BC4ME]

I'm sure it's been brought up here before but in BB Jimmy tells Francesca that he's expecting a call on his birthday and to be sure to look for it. IDK what will happen but I've always used that line to help me hope it's from Kim, wherever she is.