S03.E08: The Instant White-Hot Wild

[Wizardpatch]

4 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

I don’t watch the show with anywhere near the dedication as most here, but  … although TS is doing an excellent acting job …IMO  it’s time for HL to die or lose powers.  That would leave SB as top big bad.  Life might be more fun because enjoying himself seems to be SB’s main priority. Just don’t cross him.  And a narcissistic psychotic HL stuck with less power?  well it all could be very entertaining.

And the actual The Boys seem to have lost the directive. Which is a bit annoying.

A whole year to wait. 🙄 

Do we really want to see a "chipped" version of HL like Spike from "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"? Maybe he will eventually fall in love with Butcher 😆

[Mabinogia]

18 minutes ago, Wizardpatch said:

Do we really want to see a "chipped" version of HL like Spike from "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"?

I don't think we'd get that. Spike did at one time have a soul, he was human, he knows what it is like to exist without powers. For Spike it was an annoyance but for Homelander it would be the compete and utter loss of his sense of identity. It would be interesting to me to see how he reacts to having the one thing that defines him, really the only thing that defines him, taken away. Personally, I think he'd still be a psychopath, he'd just have to work harder at all the killing and torture. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 7/8/2022 at 8:55 AM, Smad said:

Also what was the point of this Season? It's like it was complete filler. Noir could have died of almond joy. Maeve could have left after the video threat. Victoria could have become VP off screen. A-Train and Deep contribute nothing to the plot. Stan Edgar losing his position due to Compound V becoming public knowledge and employing a Nazi. The Boys are screwed. And on and on it goes...literally nothing in this Season changed anything.

I think one big change is how Homelander has managed to get such a complete upper hand that it is hard to see how he organically will get taken down.

Prior to S3, Homelander was held in check by a number of forces -- having to act as part of the 7, Stan Edgar being the boss of him, his fear that the botched airplane rescue would damage his popularity, his desire to win Ryan over.

Now, he has Stan Edgar facing charges and is in apparently undisputed control of Vought. The Seven is basically no more; its only remaining members are just going to do what he wants. He called the bluff about the airplane video and has maintained the adoration he craves even when he killed someone in cold blood in public. He has Ryan in his custody and he's completely won him over.

Hopefully TPTB can engineer a good plotline to undermine HL.

On 7/8/2022 at 10:34 AM, gonzosgirrl said:

I was glad that MM got to put his ghosts to bed, but I have one question. He called Soldier Boy a racist piece of shit. He absolutely had his share of bad traits, but I am not recalling him showing racist tendencies. There was so much tell-don't-show when it came to Soldier Boy that I may have missed something.

I don't want this taken the wrong way, but I tend to think that there would be few mainstream white men born in 1920 or thereabouts would not be at least somewhat racist by the standards of the 2020s, and there's no reason to think SB falls into that exception. Of course, it could just be the case that MM is overreacting/influenced by PTSD to think SB is worse than he is. Still, given that MM has extensively followed SB and his father did before him, I would tend to trust his evaluation of SB as a racist and don't need to see him actively sieg-heiling or using the n-word or whatever would seal the deal to prove he's a racist. 

On 7/8/2022 at 12:54 PM, Smad said:

I don't care about the actor in this regard. But the failure of the writers. SB seemed to be no worse than every other supe we have seen with the exception of Starlight and the younger supes (like Sonic and the other ones auditioning this Season). But the supes who climbed the ladder are all awful. If the goal was the Finale, where everyone decides to team up against SB instead of HL, then SB should have been established as worse than HL. And that's I think the problem most here (and elsewhere) have, the writing doesn't support this in any way.

If they tried to make him overtly racist, they also failed. SB held Cosby (who is black) in high esteem. But he also bashed Noir in particular, supposedly because he was black. I'm confused here. Is he racist or not?

Racist people can still admire some minorities. The notion of a racist claiming "some of my best friends are ______" is a cliche because there are a lot of people who genuinely think that their admiration/friendship with people of a certain background means that they are not discriminating against other people of that background. Bill Cosby in particular was the sort of Black figure who was widely accepted by mainstream culture.

Anyway, I suppose people's mileage will vary as to what the definition of racist might be and how it applies to the various Supes.

A-Train's brother says Blue Hawk's a racist for patrolling Black neighborhoods so heavily. Blue Hawk says, hey that's just where the crime is. And for his losing his shiznit when confronted with hostile Black people, that's not his fault. I think it's pretty clear that we're supposed to think of Blue Hawk as racist, but I wouldn't be surprised if some viewers thought Blue Hawk had a point.

Homelander was willing to date a Nazi even knowing what she was. And he made a few jabs at Supersonic at being Latino. Is that him being racist, or him just being a narcissistic asshole who is desperately insecure?

On 7/8/2022 at 3:28 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

He did show remorse that innocent people were killed in his first music-triggered explosion. I think there were hints that he could have finally started to grow after 90+ years and maybe not be such a douchebag. He could have just killed MM at Herogasm, and Homelander most certainly would have.

Homelander hasn't killed any of the Boys because they are protected by plot armor. We can't take anything from the fact that SB didn't kill MM at all, let alone that it suggests that SB is not a racist.

On 7/9/2022 at 6:29 PM, Mabinogia said:

If Soldier Boy hadn't been brought in, what really would have changed about what happened this season? What impact did he really have? IDK what, other than getting to see the beautiful Jensen Ackles, did he really add that moved the plot forward? oh, wait, the plot didn't move forward. Nevermind. 

I think the Boys having their hopes raised that they could take down Homelander by one of two ways -- SB or Temp V -- and then dashed was a big plot development. I think that Homelander being completely unleashed to go with his worst impulses rather than being concerned about focus groups and ratings and stuff like that is a potentially interesting setup. I think that Starlight becoming a full-on public adversary is another important development. 

11 hours ago, MAK said:

IA with so much of what everyone is saying.

Maeve and Soldier Boy really did stay on point with the mission.

Don't really understand why Butcher was afraid for Ryan. Of the 4 blasts --- 1. Kimiko, 2. Midtown, 3. Countess, 4. Twins --- the direct blast did not kill anyone Soldier Boy didn't *want* to kill. Kimiko was hit full on and survived, and nothing happened to Frenchie at all. Butcher knew this. The other blasts had a lot of collateral damage due to the blasted buildings, not SB's energy/radiation. So if Soldier Boy points himself at Homelander and someone covers Ryan, they're very probably going to be safe, only Homelander will get hit, and if Soldier Boy's heart really isn't in killing his son, Homelander will just lose his powers. Isn't that what happened in the end with Maeve, and she was literally hugging him? Soldier Boy was not some psycho who liked to murder people.

Where did all that pearl clutching by Butcher come from? Did the Temp V affect his memory (jk)?

The blast to Kimiko was when he was barely waking up from the nerve gas and almost unintentional.

The midtown blast almost certainly killed some people.

SB trying to kill Homelander could mean that the blast he was using would be much stronger than the accidental blasts or the deliberate ones. And Ryan could easily be hurt or killed even with some shielding between him and the blast. SB might not have liked to murder people, but he probably had no remorse for people who might die as collateral damage, including his own grandson.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Chicago Redshirt

[ahrtee]

I guess I'm going to be unpopular with many here, and defend SB.  

By today's standards, yes, his behavior towards women and minorities is toxic and unforgiveable.  There's no way I could condone any of his behavior today. 

But I grew up in the 60s and 70s and, believe me, he wouldn't have been considered that bad.  As a teenager, construction workers whistled and made catcalls at me when I was walking down the street, and half the women I knew were proud of it, because they thought it showed they were attractive.  I got pinched on the butt in a NYC bus when I was in junior high and my mom just sighed and told me that next time if I feel someone getting too close I should just move away.   Men like SB weren't called toxic or even sexist--just another annoying thing women were  supposed to put up with.  And even SB (other than his comments to Grace in the flashback) wasn't so blatant in public, even though his actions in private were appalling.

About being racist--again, it's more an attitude of superiority than actually doing anything to act on it. (That's assuming that whatever happened to MM's family was an accident, even if it was collateral damage for something else he was trying to do for "good.")  If SB deliberately targeted anyone because of race, religion, or any way of being "different," then yes, that's racist by any standard.  But we didn't see that.  So I'm willing to let it pass until I see something different.  

Now there's no way I'm going to defend SB's casual attitude towards the major destruction/collateral damage caused by his "heroics."  But, in a pre-Marvel world, that's pretty much what superheroes did.  They saved the day and then flew off, and no one ever considered what damage they left behind.   Battles were held in the middle of streets, buildings exploded, cars turned over, which made exciting images but no one ever stopped to look at the casualties.  Spiderman, IIRC, was the first of the "humanized" superheroes who showed remorse or concern about his own actions.

So I tend to think of SB as Kripke's version of a typical 50s, 60s and 70s superhero as seen through today's eyes.  Asshole (by today's standards) yes.  "Toxic masculinity" (sorry, @gonzosgirrl) definitely, in this more aware century.  But nowhere near as bad or dangerous as HL, or any of the Supes who believe that they're above everyone else because of their powers, and who feel entitled to do whatever they want, no matter who it hurts/kills, for no reason than their own gratification, or that "they can."  That's HL.  SB is just a superhero out of his time and being shown up for how thoughtless and "unsuper" those heroes of the past really were.  

[Smad]

5 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I think one big change is how Homelander has managed to get such a complete upper hand that it is hard to see how he organically will get taken down.

So what you're saying is HL is still winning and/or living to see another day? Yes that's just like the previous 2 Seasons. The only difference is now he's in complete control, has a cult and the VP (and soon to be President probably) in his pocket. Which means there is no way to beat him. The only way to beat HL is by killing him and they wasted their best shot. I have no interest in Ryan the plot device eventually turning on daddy and being the big hitter or some nonsense that takes HL down. But in essence the situation is the same as before, HL is alive. So no change there.

5 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Anyway, I suppose people's mileage will vary as to what the definition of racist might be and how it applies to the various Supes.

I acknowledged that he probably has racism in him just by the fact that he was born beginning of the 20th century when things were very different. And considering he lived up to the 80's before he was frozen, there is probably not much that changed. What was missing however were hints in live action current time. This show constantly mentions HL's and Butcher's racism, we got Blue Hawk's and of course Stormfront's. This show doesn't pass up opportunities to blatantly point out a character's racism so the audience can be 100% sure they are a racist. But there was nothing of that with SB in present time.

5 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Homelander was willing to date a Nazi even knowing what she was. And he made a few jabs at Supersonic at being Latino. Is that him being racist, or him just being a narcissistic asshole who is desperately insecure?

HL is the biggest racist on the show. Even more than Stormfront. First there is his racism against ALL humans. He talks about supes being a different breed and above the 'mud people'. Then you have his more familiar racism (aka racism that is more in line with what exists in our world). He made cracks about Latinos and Muslims and probably some more I can't recall. And then there is his distaste for people with deformities/disabilities (disgusted at Deep's gills and wanting him to cover them up, disgusted at the thought of the blind Blindspot joining The 7). And of course his need for everyone to perfect specimen (aka body shaming A-Train).

Hilariously, while people will endlessly talk about Blue Hawk's, Stormfront's and even SB's racism, you never see people talk about HL's or even Butcher's (who is racist against all supes). I find that weird honestly.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Smad

[roamyn]

1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

They saved the day and then flew off, and no one ever considered what damage they left behind.   Battles were held in the middle of streets, buildings exploded, cars turned over, which made exciting images but no one ever stopped to look at the casualties.  Spiderman, IIRC, was the first of the "humanized" superheroes who showed remorse or concern about his own actions.

And what abt all the damage The Boys and their allies have caused?  All the people they have killed?  Heck, just in the finale QM killed a driver and two guards, Kimiko killed three soldiers.  What abt their families?  What abt the destruction of that beautiful whale in S2?  Using Popclaw & others and then threatening them to get their way? The Boys even remotely care abt the collateral damage then? 

[MAK]

1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

By today's standards, yes, his behavior towards women and minorities is toxic and unforgiveable.  There's no way I could condone any of his behavior today. 

Exactly! I've written my own Soldier Boy apologia somewhere under another episode, so I won't repeat. But, like you say, his attitude is as superior to others *because* he is the "strongest man alive." It's probably also that he was the one successful experiment in Dr. Vought's trials (excepting Mrs. Vought, aka Stormfront), because it doesn't seem like he had any contemporaries, maybe as far as he knew, until the 70s/80s when they gave him a team. He was the one and only, going on missions, black ops, undercover in the mafia, whatever Vought sent him on. And I guess he was told his efforts were successful because they kept sending him out into the field, right up til Nicaragua. 

Of course he's going to feel superior, and being a product of his time, he will be bullying and condescending to those he deems beneath him when they dare to criticize him. Again, not something I would accept or condone now, but was pretty common then.

[Myrelle]

I'm with those here who feel that the writing for this last episode pretty much sucked, but episodes 1-7 were pretty damned good as far as the writing went.

For me, that falls on the showrunner's shoulders.

Sadly, this isn't the first time Kripke has allowed newbie writers to handle very important episodes on his shows, so I'm not really surprised at the weak, mostly tell and little show writing that we got in this episode.

And sadly, it has affected my feelings of affection for no few of the main characters still on this show.

I will probably wait to binge the show next season instead of watching in real time and get to it when I can.

Although I will add that if I hear Soldier Boy(hands down, the best thing about S3 for me)is coming back, that would most definitely change my mind.

So here's to hoping that Mallory takes matters into her own hands and decides to wake Soldier Boy up for one more mission after being ignored by Butcher when she really needed him.

I've seen so many hilarious comments about this episode, but one of the funniest has to be the one that said when Soldier Boy finally met Homelander, he decided to completely end his entire family line. 🤣

Edited July 11, 2022 by Myrelle

[gonzosgirrl]

6 hours ago, Smad said:

I acknowledged that he probably has racism in him just by the fact that he was born beginning of the 20th century when things were very different. And considering he lived up to the 80's before he was frozen, there is probably not much that changed. What was missing however were hints in live action current time.

There is not much doubt that he would be racist and probably homophobic and xenophobic as well, given his age and the times he grew up in. In the Nicaragua flashback we saw him being this 'toxic male' towards Grace. But then we also saw his reaction to her actions during the attack - he showed her respect, if grudging. We saw him puzzled and maybe even repelled by the gay couple on the street in his first State-side appearance, but then he basically shrugged and move on. He expressed remorse for the people killed in his black-out explosion, and gave Hughie the opportunity to clear the 'innocent' people, both supes and humans, out of the way before going after the twins - and nobody else would've been harmed if not for the damn Russian music. None of that screams 'racist' to me, and in fact seems to show that he might've been able to evolve and adapt to this new era he found himself in.

He was most vocal and derisive about the current state of masculinity but it seemed more like a disdain for what men have become, rather than toxicity towards women. Just as antiquated an attitude, but not (IMO) inherently evil. It certainly didn't make him more dangerous than Homelander. That, for me, is why Starlight's pearl-clutching and MM's revenge-at-any-cost rage is just poor story-telling.

[Affogato]

People who are injected with V are a fairly random group of people who were injected with V. The existence of Ryan indicates there can be a race of Supes with shared ancestry, and Stormfront wanted to use HL to create her 'master race' and in turn HL wanted to use Maeve. But at this point, not a race. Butcher is not a 'racist'. There are things that divide people that are not racism, such as ideology and morality.  In his way, which is the worst possible way (as is his custom), he acknowledges that some Supes are decent human beings and that there are advantages to the Superpowers.

Also, there is not systemic racism for or against Supes. HL is riding on the fact that people love a white, entitled, rich alpha male.

Some people are talking as if men in the 1920s and 1950s were universally horrible, or as if people in the past were universally racist (or misogynistic)--where is, in our current time, we have become so very, very enlightened.  This isn't true. In any time Soldier Boy was a completly awful person. Soldier Boy was a product of his time, for sure, but he also clearly welcomed the opportunity to rape, pillage and take advantage of everyone weaker around him, and that is on him.

Blue Hawk certainly could have woke to the issues of systemic racism, which were less well known and talked about in Soldier Boys time, but both of them could have realized and cared about the fact that their actions were hurting a lot of defenseless people.

[Chicago Redshirt]

6 hours ago, Smad said:

So what you're saying is HL is still winning and/or living to see another day? Yes that's just like the previous 2 Seasons. The only difference is now he's in complete control, has a cult and the VP (and soon to be President probably) in his pocket. Which means there is no way to beat him. The only way to beat HL is by killing him and they wasted their best shot. I have no interest in Ryan the plot device eventually turning on daddy and being the big hitter or some nonsense that takes HL down. But in essence the situation is the same as before, HL is alive. So no change there.

I acknowledged that he probably has racism in him just by the fact that he was born beginning of the 20th century when things were very different. And considering he lived up to the 80's before he was frozen, there is probably not much that changed. What was missing however were hints in live action current time. This show constantly mentions HL's and Butcher's racism, we got Blue Hawk's and of course Stormfront's. This show doesn't pass up opportunities to blatantly point out a character's racism so the audience can be 100% sure they are a racist. But there was nothing of that with SB in present time.

HL is the biggest racist on the show. Even more than Stormfront. First there is his racism against ALL humans. He talks about supes being a different breed and above the 'mud people'. Then you have his more familiar racism (aka racism that is more in line with what exists in our world). He made cracks about Latinos and Muslims and probably some more I can't recall. And then there is his distaste for people with deformities/disabilities (disgusted at Deep's gills and wanting him to cover them up, disgusted at the thought of the blind Blindspot joining The 7). And of course his need for everyone to perfect specimen (aka body shaming A-Train).

Hilariously, while people will endlessly talk about Blue Hawk's, Stormfront's and even SB's racism, you never see people talk about HL's or even Butcher's (who is racist against all supes). I find that weird honestly.

I think where we were at the end of S2 is substantially different from where we are now, even if the bottom line of Homelander being in charge and the Boys having a near-impossible battle is the same. 

Homelander having nothing and no one at the moment to keep him in check is a different place than we were. Starlight dropping her involvement with Vought and teamed up with the Boys openly and full-time is a different place than we were. Victoria allying with Homelander and being in a position to be a heartbeat away from the presidency is a different place than we were. The various character's realizations about themselves and the world may not be a plot-specific difference, but it will likely inform the plot going forward.

I know that the general rule of media should be "show, don't tell." But personally, I really don't need to be shown that someone who grew up in SB's time period is racist. Being told so by someone who has been studying SB all his life on top of the default assumption that someone from his era would be and his general douchebag attitude is enough for me.

Again, things depend on how one defines racism. Some people would disagree that Blue Hawk is racist, even though I think the show pretty well established he is.

Some people wouldn't consider Supes/non-Supes a race as such, so would not consider Butcher racist. Even considering Supes as a race, some might excuse Butcher's opinions as so far as we've seen, there is exactly one Supe who has a fully functioning moral compass and has been willing to follow it almost always in Starlight and another two in Maeve and Kimiko who are mostly good.

Homelander looks down on people of all skin colors equally and only cares about others in so much they please him or are useful to him. 

[Smad]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

Butcher is not a 'racist'. There are things that divide people that are not racism, such as ideology and morality.  In his way, which is the worst possible way (as is his custom), he acknowledges that some Supes are decent human beings and that there are advantages to the Superpowers.

Butcher has said since S1 that all supes have to go. He said it again this Season. Replace superpowers with skin color. Would you still say it's not racist wanting to, for example, genocide all black people? Or if you don't want racism, how about super powers = disability? Would it be alright if he advocated the death of everyone with a certain disability? For Butcher it doesn't matter if a supe is a good person or a bad one, they all have to go. Remember when he wanted just his wife back last Season and ditch Ryan just because Ryan was a supe? He only changed his mind because of Becca. Only reason he would think twice about offing SL and Kimiko are Hughie and Frenchie, take those guys away and Butcher would have no trouble getting rid of them. Just because they are supes.

HL literally calls supes a different breed. And just like Stormfront wants his own breeding program. He wants a master race. I don't think I have to mention the historic parallels here? Humans are mud people but for now he needs them to satisfy his need to be loved/worshipped. If there were enough supes to worship him, he would have no need for that other breed known as humans.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Smad

[Smad]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

That, for me, is why Starlight's pearl-clutching and MM's revenge-at-any-cost rage is just poor story-telling.

For me what was poor storytelling was the deliberate way they kept MM and SL away from SB. Same with Kimiko and Frenchie's side plot. SL only knows stories second hand and MM would probably not change his mind no matter how much contact he had with SB. But if they don't have exposure to SB, their opinions can remain unchanged. Did they even know that the building and Herogasm wasn't deliberate? But they need to believe, for the Finale, that SB is somehow worse (which I still don't see why they think that but whatever show) and prioritize him over HL. So they need to be kept apart from SB.

[gonzosgirrl]

Question: Are we to assume that The Boys know what happened to Soldier Boy? Did Grace/the CIA have advanced warning and were waiting on the ground? The gas didn't seem to have knocked him out by the time Maeve took them out the window, so did he 'pass out' between there and the ground? It looked like he got it away from his face before being forced to breathe in that much of it. It took a whole roomful in the Russian flashback.

ETA: So I went back to watch. It's MM and Starlight (of course) helping Maeve into the van. And SB's eyes were definitely still open on the way down - if Maeve could survive the fall intact, I assume he did as well. Ten seconds of showing the Men In Black picking him up would have made things clearer.

Edited July 11, 2022 by gonzosgirrl

[Smad]

8 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Question: Are we to assume that The Boys know what happened to Soldier Boy? Did Grace/the CIA have advanced warning and were waiting on the ground? The gas didn't seem to have knocked him out by the time Maeve took them out the window, so did he 'pass out' between there and the ground? It looked like he got it away from his face before being forced to breathe in that much of it.

I was thinking about that earlier today. How did SB end up with Grace? I don't think Grace knew what was going to happen at the tower since Butcher refused her call. And I'm sure she is pissed at Butcher that HL has Ryan now largely because of Butcher.

She might have heard over the great vine about Vought tower being evacuated since she probably figured HL would take Ryan there so she kept an eye and ear out. But still, she would need a team, the nerve gas and equipment to take him from Vought and secure him. Would he even have been unconscious? And you would need supes to restrain him if he wasn't.

It's just one of those things the writers didn't want to address and didn't think through IMO.

[ahrtee]

15 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Question: Are we to assume that The Boys know what happened to Soldier Boy? Did Grace/the CIA have advanced warning and were waiting on the ground? The gas didn't seem to have knocked him out by the time Maeve took them out the window, so did he 'pass out' between there and the ground? It looked like he got it away from his face before being forced to breathe in that much of it. It took a whole roomful in the Russian flashback.

ETA: So I went back to watch. It's MM and Starlight (of course) helping Maeve into the van. And SB's eyes were definitely still open on the way down - if Maeve could survive the fall intact, I assume he did as well. Ten seconds of showing the Men In Black picking him up would have made things clearer.

We can assume The Boys knew.  After all, it was Frenchie who made the gas that he knew wouldn't kill SB, just knock him out, so they had to have a plan already in place to put him back on ice.   They couldn't just leave him there on the ground, and needed a secure place, so I'm going to guess someone called Grace to ask for her help in securing him.  

Edited July 11, 2022 by ahrtee

[Affogato]

59 minutes ago, Smad said:

Butcher has said since S1 that all supes have to go. He said it again this Season. Replace superpowers with skin color. Would you still say it's not racist wanting to, for example, genocide all black people? Or if you don't want racism, how about super powers = disability? Would it be alright if he advocated the death of everyone with a certain disability? For Butcher it doesn't matter if a supe is a good person or a bad one, they all have to go. Remember when he wanted just his wife back last Season and ditch Ryan just because Ryan was a supe? He only changed his mind because of Becca. Only reason he would think twice about offing SL and Kimiko are Hughie and Frenchie, take those guys away and Butcher would have no trouble getting rid of them. Just because they are supes.

HL literally calls supes a different breed. And just like Stormfront wants his own breeding program. He wants a master race. I don't think I have to mention the historic parallels here? Humans are mud people but for now he needs them to satisfy his need to be loved/worshipped. If there were enough supes to worship him, he would have no need for that other breed known as humans.

Genocide is a legally specific term.

Wanting to kill all black people (and making a concerted attempt to do so) would be genocide.  I think you could make a case if someone were doing the above things to, say, the developmentally disabled, and call it genocide, but it would be a little less obvious. It is a different sort of group than the geneva accords named, but it is a group.

Yes, Stormfront was a Nazi and also a racist who believed in the Master Race and wanted to establish a race of Supes, Supes that looked like Homelander, to continue the master race and eventually wipe out humans. She might have chosen to wipe out black Supes, eventually, once her master race was established, or enslave them, and humans as well. Homelander is coming around to this point of view., No one is denying this.

As far as Butcher and the Boys, they are at war against Vought. Butcher has changed his opinion about Supes, and protected Ryan in the last episode.  But Butcher isn't going out on his free time and killing off the Supes we saw at Herogasm, the ones that are living off the grid. he is specifically at war with the seven and the people around the seven. It really isn't racism and so far it isn't genocide. It is more like 'death to the facists' or 'kill the running dogs of capitalism'.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Affogato

[gonzosgirrl]

13 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

We can assume The Boys knew.  After all, it was Frenchie who made the gas that he knew wouldn't kill SB, just knock him out, so they had to have a plan already in place to put him back on ice.   They couldn't just leave him there on the ground, and needed a secure place, so I'm going to guess someone called Grace to ask for her help in securing him.  

None of them are supposed to even know where Grace is though. There was no indication of any plan other that 'GET HIM!!!' It would have taken ten seconds of screen time to indicate that someone contacted her - though it seemed like Butcher was the only one who had her number. Maybe there will be a throwaway line next season, but it's a big plot-hole as far as I'm concerned.

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I

Some people wouldn't consider Supes/non-Supes a race as such, so would not consider Butcher racist. Even considering Supes as a race, some might excuse Butcher's opinions as so far as we've seen, there is exactly one Supe who has a fully functioning moral compass and has been willing to follow it almost always in Starlight and another two in Maeve and Kimiko who are mostly good.

I think the point of the show is that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Also something about staring into the abyss, as Butcher is doing.

[Ohiopirate02]

14 minutes ago, Smad said:

I was thinking about that earlier today. How did SB end up with Grace? I don't think Grace knew what was going to happen at the tower since Butcher refused her call. And I'm sure she is pissed at Butcher that HL has Ryan now largely because of Butcher.

She might have heard over the great vine about Vought tower being evacuated since she probably figured HL would take Ryan there so she kept an eye and ear out. But still, she would need a team, the nerve gas and equipment to take him from Vought and secure him. Would he even have been unconscious? And you would need supes to restrain him if he wasn't.

It's just one of those things the writers didn't want to address and didn't think through IMO.

Grace not being fully retired can easily be a plot point in season 4, and whatever arm of the US government she still works for has multiple spies in Vought.  To me, this is completely plausible.  Also, we have seen Neuman double-cross Edgar, who's to say she would not have another back-up plan up her sleeve?  

[Smad]

26 minutes ago, Affogato said:

Butcher has changed his opinion about Supes, and protected Ryan in the last episode.  But Butcher isn't going out on his free time and killing off the Supes we saw at Herogasm, the ones that are living off the grid.

He has not changed his opinion. In the episode where he banged Maeve, he said again that ALL supes have to go. The only reason why he protects Ryan is because he's his last link to Becca. And HL is the biggest threat, as long as he is in play Butcher will focus on that. Because HL is one of the few supes who if he catches scent of supes dropping, might interfere. He's priority number #1 (unless Ryan gets in the middle and hypocrite Butcher's comes out to play). Not to mention that it's been said that every supe requires a different method. The show, and therefor Butcher, don't got time for that. But if HL was dealt with, Butcher would go after more. He wouldn't know what to do with himself if he didn't. If he doesn't mean that all of them have to go, why continue to say it?

[Castiels Cat]

11 hours ago, ahrtee said:

I guess I'm going to be unpopular with many here, and defend SB.  

By today's standards, yes, his behavior towards women and minorities is toxic and unforgiveable.  There's no way I could condone any of his behavior today. 

But I grew up in the 60s and 70s and, believe me, he wouldn't have been considered that bad.  As a teenager, construction workers whistled and made catcalls at me when I was walking down the street, and half the women I knew were proud of it, because they thought it showed they were attractive.  I got pinched on the butt in a NYC bus when I was in junior high and my mom just sighed and told me that next time if I feel someone getting too close I should just move away.   Men like SB weren't called toxic or even sexist--just another annoying thing women were  supposed to put up with.  And even SB (other than his comments to Grace in the flashback) wasn't so blatant in public, even though his actions in private were appalling.

About being racist--again, it's more an attitude of superiority than actually doing anything to act on it. (That's assuming that whatever happened to MM's family was an accident, even if it was collateral damage for something else he was trying to do for "good.")  If SB deliberately targeted anyone because of race, religion, or any way of being "different," then yes, that's racist by any standard.  But we didn't see that.  So I'm willing to let it pass until I see something different.  

Now there's no way I'm going to defend SB's casual attitude towards the major destruction/collateral damage caused by his "heroics."  But, in a pre-Marvel world, that's pretty much what superheroes did.  They saved the day and then flew off, and no one ever considered what damage they left behind.   Battles were held in the middle of streets, buildings exploded, cars turned over, which made exciting images but no one ever stopped to look at the casualties.  Spiderman, IIRC, was the first of the "humanized" superheroes who showed remorse or concern about his own actions.

So I tend to think of SB as Kripke's version of a typical 50s, 60s and 70s superhero as seen through today's eyes.  Asshole (by today's standards) yes.  "Toxic masculinity" (sorry, @gonzosgirrl) definitely, in this more aware century.  But nowhere near as bad or dangerous as HL, or any of the Supes who believe that they're above everyone else because of their powers, and who feel entitled to do whatever they want, no matter who it hurts/kills, for no reason than their own gratification, or that "they can."  That's HL.  SB is just a superhero out of his time and being shown up for how thoughtless and "unsuper" those heroes of the past really were.  

I am slightly younger than you and agree completely. Times have changed. Jensen totally nailed this.

[Affogato]

3 minutes ago, Smad said:

He has not changed his opinion. In the episode where he banged Maeve, he said again that ALL supes have to go. The only reason why he protects Ryan is because he's his last link to Becca. And HL is the biggest threat, as long as he is in play Butcher will focus on that. Because HL is one of the few supes who if he catches scent of supes dropping, might interfere. He's priority number #1 (unless Ryan gets in the middle and hypocrite Butcher's comes out to play). Not to mention that it's been said that every supe requires a different method. The show, and therefor Butcher, don't got time for that. But if HL was dealt with, Butcher would go after more. He wouldn't know what to do with himself if he didn't. If he doesn't mean that all of them have to go, why continue to say it?

Because it rallies the troops.

Because it isn’t wrong—like nuclear warheads, if it is available it will eventually be misused. 

Okay enough. Butcher is an asshole, it is in his character description. but he is not a one dimensional asshole. 
 

[Smad]

36 minutes ago, Affogato said:

Because it rallies the troops.

How would that rally the troops?

Hughie - dating a supe

Frenchie - dating a supe

Butcher has actually stopped saying 'genocide' in front of his troops. He constantly said it in S1. And it's because half his team is dating supes that he has backed off. But Maeve is a safe bet to whom who can say that. So he hasn't changed his opinion at all.

[Aithne]

3 hours ago, Smad said:

For me what was poor storytelling was the deliberate way they kept MM and SL away from SB. Same with Kimiko and Frenchie's side plot. SL only knows stories second hand and MM would probably not change his mind no matter how much contact he had with SB. But if they don't have exposure to SB, their opinions can remain unchanged. Did they even know that the building and Herogasm wasn't deliberate? But they need to believe, for the Finale, that SB is somehow worse (which I still don't see why they think that but whatever show) and prioritize him over HL. So they need to be kept apart from SB.

I agree with this. Don't get me wrong - I love the Annie and MM dynamic, and the Frenchie/Kimiko story was aces in my opinion - great character exploration with solid grounding in previous seasons. What they did with these 4 will make the team dynamics richer next year. The enjoyment I felt in that last scene seeing MM tease Annie lightly about cleanliness (contrast with his irritability at the beginning of the season about using plates), and Frenchie finally at ease in spearheading their new egalitarian dynamic (contrast with his brooding in S2 about Butcher being missing and not having called) - good, good stuff, and it came from the team's fragmentation. They're going to be a more cohesive and proactive group now, which should be great to watch. 

But. What would the story have been like if it wasn't so fragmented? How would SB have interacted with the rest of the team if we weren't on our little Caucasian males-only adventure into traditional gender stereotypes and how we eventually reject them because they're not in our nature or out of love for someone else? The story isolated the Soldier Boy plotline basically as soon as he woke up, and I think it could've been really fun to explore the dynamics if it had been done differently. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Aithne

[gonzosgirrl]

One good thing about this episode that I will carry with me (well, two good things - that whole fight scene was awesome), is Frenchie's. "No, no, NO, my cakehole will remain open!"

[tennisgurl]

I went into this worried that we would just get a reset to the status quo after the season started with a promise of real change, and sadly that is basically what happened. There were some changes, like Maeve faking her death and Billy being sick, but we are mostly back where we started. Everyone who had powers at the start of the season still has them, Homelander is still in power and is the worst, the gang is back together, we are making some slight change, but I worry that we're spinning our wheels. The social commentary that the show usually does great on has gotten more heavy handed and the blood and sex has become a lot less shocking, both of which make the show feel less fresh than it used to feel. You can only watch a head explode so many times before it loses its shock value. I am also disappointed that Soldier Boy become basically a retread of Stormfront, a hero from the 40's who seems like they could be a morally ambiguous interesting character but are soon revealed to pure evil and are gone by the end of the season. 

That all being said, there was a lot to like about this episode and the season as a whole. I am glad that Billy ended up not letting Hughie endanger himself and that Hughie and Starlight made up, complete with Starlight joining the team and getting a power up. Frenchie and Kimiko were the most detached from the main plot of the cast but were highlights of the season, they're just too cute together. I loved when Frenchie yelled at how Butcher has to respect them now, and ALSO they should get paid vacations and dental, while Kimiko looked proud, it was so great. The acting was great as always, watching Jensen play against type was great and the regular cast was good as ever. 

This is why the "make someone hate you for their own good" gambit is so often a terrible idea, Billy. Hopefully they can get Ryan as far away from Homelander as they can before he corrupts the poor kid. 

[gonzosgirrl]

Did Starlight really get a power up? Or was she just levitating from the super-charge? The second she blew her load, so to speak, she fell back to the floor. I think Maeve telling her she could 'fly' was metaphorical, not literal.

I really do not see how Soldier Boy can be considered 'pure evil'. Hedonistic? Callous? All the 'phobics'? Sure. But I don't see anything he did as inherently evil - the act of murder of any being notwithstanding, unless you count pretty much every character on the show as evil, including Hughie. And I still say the character showed signs of being able to evolve, at least as far as his 'phobics' go. I imagine 40 years in a box makes you a little more prone to not sweat the small stuff.

All that said, if and when he ever does get out again, every one of those motherfuckin' Boys are dead.

[Aithne]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

One good thing about this episode that I will carry with me (well, two good things - that whole fight scene was awesome), is Frenchie's. "No, no, NO, my cakehole will remain open!"

May he never shut it again. :) He and Kimiko are this series' Dean Winchester for me, haha, I could write long and detailed treatises on what I find so fascinating about them if we had character threads. 

[gonzosgirrl]

Just now, Aithne said:

May he never shut it again. :) He and Kimiko are this series' Dean Winchester for me, haha, I could write long and detailed treatises on what I find so fascinating about them if we had character threads. 

Start one (or two, or all). There are lots of conversations to be had, for sure!

[Smad]

Most shocking thing in this episode, at least for me, will always be Ashley discovering  humanity.

[DeeDee79]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Did Starlight really get a power up? Or was she just levitating from the super-charge? The second she blew her load, so to speak, she fell back to the floor. 

Not in my opinion. It seems like she needs an extra charge of electricity to be able to do what she did and there won't always be someone to give her that. 

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

unless you count pretty much every character on the show as evil, including Hughie.

Who killed a Supe in the same episode where he insisted that he wasn't a murderer. A Train was his real target but Translucent was a convenient outlet because he made Hughie feel weak. 

[DeeDee79]

1 hour ago, Smad said:

Most shocking thing in this episode, at least for me, will always be Ashley discovering  humanity.

Not completely. That was an asshole move leaving her assistant to find her own way home during what they thought was a terrorist threat. 

[Smad]

26 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Not completely. That was an asshole move leaving her assistant to find her own way home during what they thought was a terrorist threat. 

She discovered it for 20 seconds. I didn't say the entire episode. But those 20 seconds...shocked me to my core.

[ILoveReading]

On 7/8/2022 at 6:40 PM, PurpleTentacle said:

It's clear that Noir's flashback is reliable, as the other evidence we have lines up perfectly. It was just a creative way of the writers giving us yet another flashback, without getting too repetitive.

IMO, there is a glaring discrepancy in Noir's flashback, and that is Gunpowder.  If Soldier Boy's abuse was so bad he actually filed a complaint why would he be the one person to not go along with the plan to take down Soldier Boy?

I can't buy that he would have been to scared they wouldn't succeed, since he lodged the complaint in the first place.  If hew as so afraid of Soldier Boy, I can't see him putting in writing and leaving a paper trail where it could get back to Soldier Boy.  Gunpowder would be setting himself up with Vought to either disappear or get killed since that is how Vought deals with problems.

[Mabinogia]

41 minutes ago, Smad said:

She discovered it for 20 seconds. I didn't say the entire episode. But those 20 seconds...shocked me to my core.

Same. When she saw them taking away Maeve I was all "oh crap!" but then she deleted it and I was all "Who are you and what did you do to Ashley and whatever it was...keep doing it." It's just a little reminder that these characters are human and no human is all good or all bad. We are much, much messier than that. I find it very human to be able to hide evidence that Maeve is alive, while also denying Mini Ashley a space on the escape chopper (or plane, I think it was a chopper by I'm fuzzy on the details).

[Smad]

1 minute ago, Mabinogia said:

Same. When she saw them taking away Maeve I was all "oh crap!" but then she deleted it and I was all "Who are you and what did you do to Ashley and whatever it was...keep doing it." It's just a little reminder that these characters are human and no human is all good or all bad. We are much, much messier than that. I find it very human to be able to hide evidence that Maeve is alive, while also denying Mini Ashley a space on the escape chopper (or plane, I think it was a chopper by I'm fuzzy on the details).

I don't want to give the writers any credit here (because writing was so bad this episode) but it brings Maeve/Ashley full circle from last Season. Remember when Elena left and Maeve drowned herself in alcohol, drugs and a threesome? Ashley walked in on her in bed with those guys and berated Maeve with 'this is not lesbian!'. Maeve, while in tears, said to Ashley 'for once in your life, be a fucking human being'. 

[Ohiopirate02]

I did get the feeling that Ashley made the split second decision that Maeve was worth more to Vought dead than alive.  "Maeve went missing because Soldier Boy kidnapped her, she escaped, fought valiantly with Homelander, and tragically died" is a far easier sell than what really went down, and is partially true.  No need for Ashley or anyone really to know Maeve fought against Homelander and not with.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I did get the feeling that Ashley made the split second decision that Maeve was worth more to Vought dead than alive.  "Maeve went missing because Soldier Boy kidnapped her, she escaped, fought valiantly with Homelander, and tragically died" is a far easier sell than what really went down, and is partially true.  No need for Ashley or anyone really to know Maeve fought against Homelander and not with.

I 100% think this was her motivation, not any kind of humanity. If we're talking 'evil', I'd put Ashley near the top of the list, if for no other reason than she is human, knows exactly what her choices are, and chooses chaos each and every time. I have absolutely zero sympathy for her.

[Smad]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I 100% think this was her motivation, not any kind of humanity. If we're talking 'evil', I'd put Ashley near the top of the list, if for no other reason than she is human, knows exactly what her choices are, and chooses chaos each and every time. I have absolutely zero sympathy for her.

If that was the case, then the director did a terrible job. Ashley had several instances over the Seasons where in the moment you can see some humanity come through. It's just that her desire for power and fear of her higher ups makes it so that we don't get more than glimpses.

In this episode, when they were gassing Maeve's holding cell, Deep and Ashley were standing there. Ashley actually mouthed 'I'm sorry' through the window. The face she had when watching the video was not showing the motivation you guys ascribe to it. If I was supposed to read that as 'yay perfect PR for us if I delete this', then the director really screwed up. Earlier in an episode, when SL confronted Ashley about Maeve's whereabouts, Ashley at first was going to tell SL what happened. But then she pulled herself back and shut up because 'I'm the one in power bitch'.

I have no sympathy for Ashley either because she makes the choices she does. And she is willing to even damage herself (bye bye hair) and endure endless threats from HL, all for prestige and power.

Edited July 12, 2022 by Smad

[gonzosgirrl]

39 minutes ago, Smad said:

In this episode, when they were gassing Maeve's holding cell, Deep and Ashley were standing there. Ashley actually mouthed 'I'm sorry' through the window.

It's the "I'm sorry" that actually makes her worse for me. And even in something as simple as taking other-Ashley with her to the escape chopper, she considered, and then chose herself.

[Aithne]

3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I did get the feeling that Ashley made the split second decision that Maeve was worth more to Vought dead than alive.  "Maeve went missing because Soldier Boy kidnapped her, she escaped, fought valiantly with Homelander, and tragically died" is a far easier sell than what really went down, and is partially true.  No need for Ashley or anyone really to know Maeve fought against Homelander and not with.

If that's the case, what's with the "If you say anything, you're dead" look that she shot the analytics gal afterward?

[Ohiopirate02]

55 minutes ago, Aithne said:

If that's the case, what's with the "If you say anything, you're dead" look that she shot the analytics gal afterward?

Vought had already released to the public that Maeve had died before Ashley saw that footage.  Ashley knew Maeve escaped custody, but had no way of knowing if Maeve was alive or dead when that decision was made.  An alive Maeve throws a wrench into these plans and also could cause Homelander to do something drastic.  Best not to tell him just yet and wait to see what Maeve does.

[Smad]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It's the "I'm sorry" that actually makes her worse for me. And even in something as simple as taking other-Ashley with her to the escape chopper, she considered, and then chose herself.

That's the point of Ashley. She absolutely has humanity. But that will never win out over her desire to be on top or in power. Someone who is willing to destroy themselves for that, they are beyond help or redemption.

5 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Vought had already released to the public that Maeve had died before Ashley saw that footage.  Ashley knew Maeve escaped custody, but had no way of knowing if Maeve was alive or dead when that decision was made.  An alive Maeve throws a wrench into these plans and also could cause Homelander to do something drastic.  Best not to tell him just yet and wait to see what Maeve does.

That makes no sense because the obvious solution here is gunning after Maeve before she can do anything. You don't wait for your opponent, especially if said opponent can go on live tv at any moment and spill ALL the beans. She can tell the truth about Soldier Boy and also why she was held captive, the plane crash and any number of things from the past. Not to mention Ashley knows that if HL finds out she knew about Maeve but kept it to herself, she is royally screwed.

[Ohiopirate02]

11 minutes ago, Smad said:

That's the point of Ashley. She absolutely has humanity. But that will never win out over her desire to be on top or in power. Someone who is willing to destroy themselves for that, they are beyond help or redemption.

That makes no sense because the obvious solution here is gunning after Maeve before she can do anything. You don't wait for your opponent, especially if said opponent can go on live tv at any moment and spill ALL the beans. She can tell the truth about Soldier Boy and also why she was held captive, the plane crash and any number of things from the past. Not to mention Ashley knows that if HL finds out she knew about Maeve but kept it to herself, she is royally screwed.

Ashley is a corporate executive.  She's worried about Vought's bottom line first and foremost.  And, if a dead Maeve boosts ratings and points and also boosts stock prices, then Ashley is going to delete that footage. 

Also, deleting the footage does not mean that Vought won't do anything about Maeve.  Really all Ashley was delete from the company's servers that showed Maeve alive.  Footage that could be potentially seen by lower level employees and leaked.  Vought can always track down Maeve and quietly silence her at any moment.  Which is what Stan Edgar would have done--send Black Noir to take care of the Maeve problem without fanfare.  

[Castiels Cat]

On 7/11/2022 at 3:41 PM, Aithne said:

I agree with this. Don't get me wrong - I love the Annie and MM dynamic, and the Frenchie/Kimiko story was aces in my opinion - great character exploration with solid grounding in previous seasons. What they did with these 4 will make the team dynamics richer next year. The enjoyment I felt in that last scene seeing MM tease Annie lightly about cleanliness (contrast with his irritability at the beginning of the season about using plates), and Frenchie finally at ease in spearheading their new egalitarian dynamic (contrast with his brooding in S2 about Butcher being missing and not having called) - good, good stuff, and it came from the team's fragmentation. They're going to be a more cohesive and proactive group now, which should be great to watch. 

But. What would the story have been like if it wasn't so fragmented? How would SB have interacted with the rest of the team if we weren't on our little Caucasian males-only adventure into traditional gender stereotypes and how we eventually reject them because they're not in our nature or out of love for someone else? The story isolated the Soldier Boy plotline basically as soon as he woke up, and I think it could've been really fun to explore the dynamics if it had been done differently. 

Not to mention that.Highie never shared the fact that his ptsd caused the big blow-up explosions that killed multiple individuals. He could do controlled blasts and he actually wasn't an evil murderer just on a payback mission. There was never an attempt by the 2 team members who actually hung with him to explain what he was like. 

If Hughie had done so,  the obvious... HL would've neutralized.

Most of the intraweb is expecting to see him in s 4.

[Castiels Cat]

On 7/11/2022 at 1:51 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

Grace not being fully retired can easily be a plot point in season 4, and whatever arm of the US government she still works for has multiple spies in Vought.  To me, this is completely plausible.  Also, we have seen Neuman double-cross Edgar, who's to say she would not have another back-up plan up her sleeve?  

Or Grace wants him for the same reason that Butcher was using him. She will use him to take out HL and save Ryan. Mallory is a major player in the comics.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Castiels Cat

[Castiels Cat]

On 7/11/2022 at 10:52 AM, gonzosgirrl said:

There is not much doubt that he would be racist and probably homophobic and xenophobic as well, given his age and the times he grew up in. In the Nicaragua flashback we saw him being this 'toxic male' towards Grace. But then we also saw his reaction to her actions during the attack - he showed her respect, if grudging. We saw him puzzled and maybe even repelled by the gay couple on the street in his first State-side appearance, but then he basically shrugged and move on. He expressed remorse for the people killed in his black-out explosion, and gave Hughie the opportunity to clear the 'innocent' people, both supes and humans, out of the way before going after the twins - and nobody else would've been harmed if not for the damn Russian music. None of that screams 'racist' to me, and in fact seems to show that he might've been able to evolve and adapt to this new era he found himself in.

He was most vocal and derisive about the current state of masculinity but it seemed more like a disdain for what men have become, rather than toxicity towards women. Just as antiquated an attitude, but not (IMO) inherently evil. It certainly didn't make him more dangerous than Homelander. That, for me, is why Starlight's pearl-clutching and MM's revenge-at-any-cost rage is just poor story-telling.

It may just indicate that they are flawed reactionary characters operating without all of the facts because they made assumptions and Hughie never explained about the ptsd, etc.

[Affogato]

7 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

Not to mention that.Highie never shared the fact that his ptsd caused the big blow-up explosions that killed multiple individuals. He could do controlled blasts and he actually wasn't an evil murderer just on a payback mission. There was never an attempt by the 2 team members who actually hung with him to explain what he was like. 

If Hughie had done so,  the obvious... HL would've neutralized.

Most of the intraweb is expecting to see him in s 4.

Huge uncontrolled blasts set off by ptsd is a really good reason to put SB down. 
 

even if he’s the sweetest guy in the world. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 7/12/2022 at 7:37 AM, Ohiopirate02 said:

I did get the feeling that Ashley made the split second decision that Maeve was worth more to Vought dead than alive.  "Maeve went missing because Soldier Boy kidnapped her, she escaped, fought valiantly with Homelander, and tragically died" is a far easier sell than what really went down, and is partially true.  No need for Ashley or anyone really to know Maeve fought against Homelander and not with.

If Ashley thought Maeve was worth more dead than alive, she could a) have Vought finish Maeve off or b) sell the story that Maeve died heroically fighting against SB with Homelander without deleting the video, as no one will contradict it. And the video itself doesn't establish that Maeve was for the most part fighting Homelander, only that she was alive. She could have succumbed to her wounds later.

It also would be a bad decision on its face from Ashley's/Vought's perspective: it is in Vought's interest to continue to run tests on Maeve to determine how SB manages to depower supes, if and how they can be repowered (we know at least in Kimiko's case a new injection of OG Compound V works, but Vought has no idea about Kimiko having been depowered/repowered, and it may be that Kimiko was just lucky), if the SB depowering effect can be duplicated, etc. Ashley also is putting herself at risk by deleting the video. If Homelander finds out that she hid that Maeve survived and that Ashley knew about it, she'd probably be lucky to get just the Black Noir treatment.

The main interpretation of that scene IMO is that Ashley did not want others in Vought to know either that Maeve survived or that the Boys helped rescue her, and the main reason she did not want people to know these things is because she was for that brief period of time, sympathetic to Maeve..