Dark Winds - General Discussion

[hatchetgirl]

17 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Perhaps things have changed but Mormons are allowed to drink and do drink soda. Coffee is "banned", along with alcohol, tobacco, tea, and illegal drugs. A lot of people just assumed all caffeine was no-go because both coffee and tea have it, but that is incorrect. Although, a lot of mormons do still avoid soda. 

I figured 1972 Mormons didn't, but you are right.  :)

[Tyro49]

By the end of episode 5 I noticed Chee was speaking perfectly fluent Navaho.

[mledawn]

Finally had the chance to binge this show after wanting to watch it for a while. Zahn McClarnon was fantastic in this, although I have not read the novels or seen previous versions. I loved Dr Goodman from Bones playing the store owner.

In reading the forum after my binge, it seems like watching the show week-to-week made following plot points a bit difficult. Still, I was confused how the woman at the market got ahold of the pilot's helmet since it seemed like Raymond had the red and yellow bag - presumably with the helmet inside - at his feet when Tso shot him.

Ultimately, the setup for S2 is that Frank is in the wind with a duffle bag full of cash. I'm here for it!

On 6/19/2022 at 10:14 PM, WaltersHair said:

This is the second series I've watched that mentions native women being sterilized after giving birth. This is something that could never happen in modern times. I never even heard of this and I worked medical for 6 different tribes. It bugs me because I think it's completely made up as a story to scare people.

Hopefully this plot point now bugs because of how enragingly true it is. A scholarly search on sterilization of indigenous women yields many, many results. In Canada, documented forced sterilization has occurred as recently as 2019 and there were laws on the books in two provinces which specifically allowed it until 1972/1973. 

[sugarbaker design]

15 hours ago, mledawn said:

Still, I was confused how the woman at the market got ahold of the pilot's helmet since it seemed like Raymond had the red and yellow bag - presumably with the helmet inside - at his feet when Tso shot him.

Raymond got the helmet on a previous dive, his first dive.  

[Tyro49]

Do we know which book will be followed for season 2?

[hatchetgirl]

On 8/14/2022 at 6:55 PM, mledawn said:

Still, I was confused how the woman at the market got ahold of the pilot's helmet since it seemed like Raymond had the red and yellow bag - presumably with the helmet inside - at his feet when Tso shot him.

I think she was the woman selling the cactus paintings and was in on the scheme.  Her hubby owned the knick knack store and she was bitten by the spider.  I think Tso gave it to her to sell at that open air market place.

[proserpina65]

15 minutes ago, hatchetgirl said:

I think she was the woman selling the cactus paintings and was in on the scheme.  Her hubby owned the knick knack store and she was bitten by the spider.  I think Tso gave it to her to sell at that open air market place.

I'm pretty sure that was a different woman.

[Melonie77]

On 8/14/2022 at 9:55 PM, mledawn said:

In reading the forum after my binge, it seems like watching the show week-to-week made following plot points a bit difficult. Still, I was confused how the woman at the market got ahold of the pilot's helmet since it seemed like Raymond had the red and yellow bag - presumably with the helmet inside - at his feet when Tso shot him.

I love this series and am looking forward to the next season but I hope they offer more episodes and allow all the plot lines to fully develop and unfold.

I re-watched all the episodes and I agree it's much easier to follow when binging rather than waiting for weekly installments.

There were a number of different plot lines that didn't seem to be tied up properly but for some reason the issue over the pilot's helmet and timing of Raymond's death bothers me in particular.

First of all, I got the impression the helmet was going to be some sort of big clue and major plot point due to it's focus in a number of sequences. We were shown a close up of the initials scratched into it and the bullet holes piercing it as it rested under the water. We saw Raymond finding it while diving and it mysteriously turns up at the market where Bernadette's young friend/horse wrangler trades her own hat for the helmet. The helmet provides a clue for Bernadette when she sees her friend wearing it and she goes for an exploratory swim at the lake herself where she discovers Raymond's abandoned sneakers.

We eventually find out the helmet belonged to Chip a pilot friend of FBI agent Whitover who was involved in the robbery.
But this reveal fell sort of flat for me. It didn't warrant such an emphasis on the helmet throughout the series. Raymond dies after finding it but there wasn't much to the wrap-up of the pilot's identity and connection to the feds.

Images of the helmet are even included in the opening sequence so I thought there would be something more to that part of the puzzle.

In addition I still have no idea how that helmet ended up for sale at the market.........

On 8/15/2022 at 1:35 PM, sugarbaker design said:

Raymond got the helmet on a previous dive, his first dive.  

From what I saw Raymond only made the one dive. I specifically checked upon re-watch to see if his clothing changed between the two diving  scenes we saw which were spread out between episodes 3 and 4.
He was indeed wearing the same exact clothes in both scenes - a striped blue, black and white sleeveless tee shirt, cut-off jean shorts and sneakers. We see him diving under Leaphorn and Chee's supervision in epi 3 and then we see him in the same exact clothes in epi 4 getting shot as he prepares to leave the lake area. I believe that is all one dive.
I even checked to see if he was wearing the same clothes during his very first scene when he was in jail. I wanted to make sure the show's costume designer had not just put him in the same clothes though out the series. But he was wearing a different shirt and jeans in that other scene, so IMO that is another clue that Raymond's two lake scenes were only one diving event. 

If Raymond died at the lake with the helmet in his bag how did it get to the market?

On 8/18/2022 at 2:09 PM, hatchetgirl said:

I think she was the woman selling the cactus paintings and was in on the scheme.  Her hubby owned the knick knack store and she was bitten by the spider.  I think Tso gave it to her to sell at that open air market place.

The woman selling the helmet was definitely a different person than the cactus painting lady (Wanda). Although Wanda was indeed in on the whole scheme, the lady w/ the helmet was older and did not seem to have anything to do with any other part of the story. 

When Bernadette questioned the older market woman about where she got the helmet she told her from Raymond!
But that can not be true so why would this woman lie?
Even if Raymond did conduct two dives at different times (which I do not think is true) why would he sell the helmet at the market when he was being paid to find evidence for Leaphorn? He would have brought it to the police to get paid for diving.

I doubt the two robbers would risk selling it there.

So how did that helmet get to the market?

As others have mentioned there were a few issues that were left dangling like what happened to the money, the storyline with the son's girlfriend's father and the explosion, the mining, what happened to the white robber who originally dressed as a cop (after he tried to make a deal with Vines), and how shady was BJ Vines and was he involved in anything nefarious?????

[Melonie77]

On 8/18/2022 at 2:24 PM, proserpina65 said:

I'm pretty sure that was a different woman.

Yes, I checked upon re-watch and she is definitely a different woman older than Wanda.

Wanda (the trading post owner Lester's wife) was fully involved in the scheme. While watching again I noticed she was with the 'witch' when the men touched down in the helicopter. After they shot the pilot she and the witch helped push the helicopter into the lake.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Melonie77

[possibilities]

I am thinking they must have cut some scenes for time, or dropped an entire episode or something. Has anyone looked for commentary or interviews from the showrunners?

[Melonie77]

On 8/14/2022 at 9:55 PM, mledawn said:

Ultimately, the setup for S2 is that Frank is in the wind with a duffle bag full of cash. I'm here for it!

Are there any book readers that can tell us if the plotlines continue throughout the books or if each book is a complete story?

[Melonie77]

9 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I am thinking they must have cut some scenes for time, or dropped an entire episode or something. Has anyone looked for commentary or interviews from the showrunners?

I did this before the finale but not recently. I'll have to take a look again but I'm curious about what other viewers think.
It did seem like parts were cut out! Another plot point that was dropped was the stealing of native artifacts from the first scene. I had thought that angle would come into play again and yet it never did. Maybe it ended up on the cutting room floor?😁

I've never loved a show with so many plot holes before - there must be something great about it despite the flaws! I can imagine just how fabulous it could be if they allow it to breathe properly. Six episodes was way too short. 

[sugarbaker design]

3 hours ago, Melonie77 said:

Are there any book readers that can tell us if the plotlines continue throughout the books or if each book is a complete story?

Each book is a completed story, but it's not like the show runners stay faithful to the original text.

[Melonie77]

7 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

Each book is a completed story, but it's not like the show runners stay faithful to the original text.

Thanks for the response.😊 What's your guess on getting some of the loose threads from the first season (like what happened to the money, the missing body, the BJ Vines angle, the FBI corruption, etc.) ironed out in the next?

[sugarbaker design]

8 minutes ago, Melonie77 said:

Thanks for the response.😊 What's your guess on getting some of the loose threads from the first season (like what happened to the money, the missing body, the BJ Vines angle, the FBI corruption, etc.) ironed out in the next?

Considering the current showrunner's style of less equals more attitude toward plot exposition I highly doubt it, but then again, what do I know.  If and when, they decide to adapt A Thief of Time, I hope they take the time to be faithful to the book, it's my favorite Hillerman, it's near perfection.

[proserpina65]

12 hours ago, Melonie77 said:

Are there any book readers that can tell us if the plotlines continue throughout the books or if each book is a complete story?

The main plotlines do not carry over.  The mystery in each book is a complete story.  The character driven elements (especially Jim Chee's trying to become a singer and his ever-evolving love life) tend to continue and develop from book to book.

1 hour ago, sugarbaker design said:

If and when, they decide to adapt A Thief of Time, I hope they take the time to be faithful to the book, it's my favorite Hillerman, it's near perfection.

That's the first Hillerman book I read.  It set the bar incredibly high because, as you say, it couldn't get much better.

[wintrygal]

Apparently Rogers will now be  charging people in order to watch AMC, but only certain shows, the old reruns of movies etc, are still free, but  if I want to see the final season of The Walking Dead and Dark Winds, I have to pay $8 and something.  Unreal.... I'll wait for the reruns, this makes me so mad.   I have followed every season of TWD, and can't watch the last one unless I pay extra, I'm on a pension and pay more than enough now, you can't see me but I'm giving the finger to Rogers.

[sugarbaker design]

Who's Rogers?

[wintrygal]

3 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

Who's Rogers?

Sorry should have clarifed, they're a media corporation company in Canada, Tv, internet etc, also owners of the Toronto Blue Jays baseball team, so yeah, huge company. 

[AnimeMania]

‘Dark Winds’ Actor Zahn McClarnon and Director Billy Luther on Why Native Representation in Hollywood Needs to Go Beyond the Screen

[AnimeMania]

AMC Networks Eyes More Native American Stories With Red Nation Film Festival Pact

Following the success of Dark Winds, AMC Networks would like to present more indigenous Native American stories by partnering with the Red Nation International Film Festival.

IFC Films feature film "Catch the Fair One", available now, streaming on AMC+, is their latest project, a revenge thriller following a Native American boxer (Kali Reis) who embarks on the fight of her life when she goes in search of her missing sister. The film is directed by Josef Kubota Wladyka, produced by Mollye Asher, and executive produced by Darren Aronofsky.

[AnimeMania]

‘Dark Winds’: Nicholas Logan & Jeri Ryan Join Season 2 Cast Of AMC Series

Nicholas Logan plays Colton Wolf, a twisted assassin with a secret that puts him on a collision course with Lt. Joe Leaphorn.

Jeri Ryan portrays Rosemary Vines, a femme fatale whose physical frailties hide her naked ambition as she plays Jim Chee, leaving a trail of bodies in her wake.

[possibilities]

I wish we had a date for S2 to air. I miss the show!

[Nashville]

Still no firm start date for S2, but…

On 8/16/2022 at 10:04 PM, Tyro49 said:

Do we know which book will be followed for season 2?

…judging from some of the character names being dropped for new cast members, it appears S2 will continue to draw (at least in part) from People of Darkness.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Nashville
Punctuation

[Nashville]

On 8/22/2022 at 1:41 AM, Melonie77 said:

From what I saw Raymond only made the one dive.

I’m pretty certain Raymond made what could be considered three sets of dives:

1. Dive Series #1 (Ep3): Raymond diving while supervised by the police.  We only hear two things out of Raymond at this point - “Nothing” and “When do I get paid?” - but it’s entirely possible Raymond may have spotted some things on the pond’s bottom which (in Raymond’s mind) did not rise to a level of significance sufficient to alert the cops, but did prompt his next action.
2. Dive Series #2 (Ep3): Raymond diving unsupervised by anybody.  This dive occurred later in the same day as #1, and technically may even have been an extension of the same visit to the pond - but (a) I doubt the police would’ve gone off and left Raymond diving unsupervised, and (b) I’d be more inclined to suspect Raymond initially left with the police, but then snuck back to snag any salable trinkets he saw during his first dives.  The trinkets Raymond collected he took to the marketplace and sold - including the pilot’s helmet. Wanda (working her own booth at the market) probably spotted Raymond selling the helmet, recognized its significance, and reported Raymond’s salvage activities back to Hoski and Frank.
3. Dive Series #3 (Ep4): Raymond’s last dive series, probably the next day - after which Raymond found Hoski and Frank on the bank waiting for him.  We don’t know what Raymond pulled out of the water this time around, but we do know what went back in.

 

[AnimeMania]

Production Update: 5 of the six episodes are broadcast ready, with one episode left to be edited.

[AnimeMania]

AMC Reveals ‘Dark Winds’ Season 2 Premiere & Teaser Trailer; Jeri Ryan & Nicholas Logan To Guest Star

Dark Winds Season 2       July       AMC/AMC+

In Season 2, Lt. Joe Leaphorn (Zahn McClarnon) reunites with Jim Chee (Kiowa Gordon), his former deputy turned private eye when their separate cases bring them together in pursuit of the same suspect. They find themselves in the high desert of Navajo Country chasing a killer who’s turned his sights on them to protect a secret that rips open old wounds and challenges Leaphorn’s moral and professional code.

With the help of Sgt. Manuelito (Jessica Matten) and Valencia County Sheriff Gordo Sena, Leaphorn and Chee must thwart their would-be assassin and restore balance not only to their own lives but to the reservation that depends on them.

Jeri Ryan as Rosemary Vines, a femme fatale whose physical frailties hide her naked ambition as she plays Jim Chee, leaving a trail of bodies in her wake

Nicholas Logan as Colton Wolf, a twisted assassin with a secret that puts him on a collision course with Lt. Joe Leaphorn

[AnimeMania]

Dark Winds Season 2     Sunday, July 30, 2023        AMC/AMC+      6 episodes 

[AnimeMania]

Dark Winds Season 2     Sunday, July 30, 2023        AMC      9pm

The episode streams earlier, July 27, 2023, on AMC+.

Edited June 15, 2023 by AnimeMania

[AnimeMania]

[AnimeMania]

S02.E01: Na'niłkaadii (Sheep Dog) 

Navajo Tribal Policeman Joe Leaphorn investigates the death of a man involved in a mysterious cult, while Jim Chee, moonlighting as a PI, works a case of his own; when their investigations collide, Leaphorn and Chee find themselves in grave danger.

Premiere Date: Sunday, July 27, 2023   AMC/AMC+   OnDemand/Streaming 
Premiere Date: Sunday, July 30, 2023   AMC    9pm

[Daff]

July 30 is a Sunday, therefore, July 27 cannot be.

Happy this is back, though. Plan to buy some of the books.

[AnimeMania]

5 hours ago, Daff said:

July 30 is a Sunday, therefore, July 27 cannot be.

Happy this is back, though. Plan to buy some of the books.

Will course correct for next episode post.

[Orcinus orca]

Bought the first season on Prime and binged it.  It's been a very long time since I read (devoured) all of the Hillerman books but I do see a lot of straying from those.  It's a lot like Longmire - I just had to view the books as a completely different animal than the series.  Once I stopped trying to compare them, I was a lot happier.

Looking forward to season two when it's available for purchase.

[Dowel Jones]

On 7/26/2023 at 3:41 PM, AnimeMania said:

Leaphorn and Chee find themselves in grave danger.

"Grave danger?"

"Is there any other kind?"  (A Few Good Men reference...)

[Jodithgrace]

I really have to divorce this series from the books. This is not my Jim Chee, the earnest  and quite religious young cop. Who is this swinger in the polyester suit? Ugh! 
That said, the show is entertaining enough, and there aren’t that many shows out there worth watching. I just have to forget that I have read every book Tony and Anne Hillerman have written.  

[hatchetgirl]

I'm so glad it's back and it's just as good, maybe a little spookier.  

 

[Dowel Jones]

The good thing about Jim Chee getting shot is that he can get out of that 70s suit.  And get rid of that Anton Chigurch haircut (No Country For Old Men). Joe Leaphorn gets a good joke in - "You're gonna melt in the sun."

So it looks like once again we have a wide net full of plots, some important, some peripheral.  I think this is going to be an interesting season again.

You would think the USAF would be interested in their missing space capsule.

[possibilities]

Is the implication that the sheep with the extra horn has radiation poisoning? 

Also, sheep are not typically aggressive, so... WTF?

[Raja]

10 hours ago, possibilities said:

Is the implication that the sheep with the extra horn has radiation poisoning? 

Also, sheep are not typically aggressive, so... WTF?

Even if it appeared after the discovery of the nose cone I have no ideal what a sheep's lifespan is but I just figured a birth defect and a predator didn't take it.

The police station scenes remind of In The Heat of the Night as over the series that little department kept getting larger and larger and the original characters kept getting promoted. Jeri Ryan's sick to the point of the oxygen tank and older Mrs Vines still up to seduction to get Jim Chee on the case was an interesting choice.

18 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

I really have to divorce this series from the books. This is not my Jim Chee, the earnest  and quite religious young cop. Who is this swinger in the polyester suit? Ugh! 
That said, the show is entertaining enough, and there aren’t that many shows out there worth watching. I just have to forget that I have read every book Tony and Anne Hillerman have written.  

I have long forgotten the books of the series that I read and am seeing this show more as a period piece than as a glimpse of another culture.

[AnimeMania]

S02.E02: Wonders of the Unknown

Leaphorn explores personal ties to an increasingly mysterious case; Chee is questioned by a reluctant Sgt. Manuelito; the discovery of a body sends Leaphorn and Manuelito in pursuit of a child in danger.

Premiere Date: Thursday, August 3, 2023   AMC/AMC+    OnDemand/Streaming 
Premiere Date: Sunday, August 6, 2023   AMC    9pm    

[abbyzenn]

This is definitely a show where you really have to pay attention.  I didn't remember Mr. Vines or The People of Darkness from the first series, I didn't notice the sheep's extra horn.  Sometimes I think the lighting is too dark but I guess that's part of the atmosphere.

After watching episode 2 I find the show even more compelling - there's so many mysteries going on.  The bomber/shooter is really creepy.

On a lighter note - Chee looked better in his police uniform (I don't mind the polyester suit but that hair yikes!) and Bernadette looks better in regular clothes with her hair down.

[possibilities]

I have trouble keeping track of the time period. If not for the moon landing, I wouldn't have realized it wasn't now. Even with the phones used, and th nurse uniform style, it just wouldn't have registered.

 

[Raja]

15 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I have trouble keeping track of the time period. If not for the moon landing, I wouldn't have realized it wasn't now. Even with the phones used, and th nurse uniform style, it just wouldn't have registered.

 

Maybe because this is all happening at the time that I was becoming aware of the world beyond my family and the house on 5th Avenue that I had the opposite reaction to the series.

[MrWhyt]

so glad this is back. Zahn McClarnon is great.

also: it took me this long to realize that Elva Guerra/Sally is also Jackie from Reservation Dogs.

[Raja]

This is a much better place to focus on the involuntary sterilization of Native American women then grafting the story onto a white character years after the process was ended.

[meep.meep]

On 7/31/2023 at 6:49 PM, possibilities said:

Is the implication that the sheep with the extra horn has radiation poisoning? 

Also, sheep are not typically aggressive, so... WTF?

I don't know where the show is going with this, but the Navajo breed a special kind of sheep with extra horns.

Wiki:  "The Navajo-Churro breed rams can have two, four, six, or more horns. This is because they possess the polycerate gene, which is also found in old heritage breeds like the Jacob Sheep. They also have the ability to have fused horns. Ewes also can have horns, or nubs called scurs. The color can be black, white, or striped"

Sheep, especially rams, can be aggressive.  

[Hedgehog2022]

Love that they played David Crosby's soaring masterpiece song  "Laughing" during the moon landing scene. So many little tidbits like this that are inserted into this show that bring me back in time to 1969-1974.

6 hours ago, Raja said:

This is a much better place to focus on the involuntary sterilization of Native American women then grafting the story onto a white character years after the process was ended.

Like what Taylor Sheridan did in Yellowstone with the "Beth" character? 

[Rickster]

The bomber’s facial wounds sure healed fast.

[Raja]

7 hours ago, Hedgehog2022 said:

Like what Taylor Sheridan did in Yellowstone with the "Beth" character? 

Spoiler alert 😇