S01.E08: America’s Sweetheart or: Time Over Time

[peachmangosteen]

Series finale. Airs June 9th. 

[MrsR]

Well the time jumps really took a whole new meaning in this episode. Two different techniques in one episode, the concurrent hearings, and then the fake out conversation as if Kathleen had lived. I laughed in the middle of that one when Kathleen said, 'They are all right.' referring to the kids.

I don't know about the rest but Todd is a total headcase. Last fall he published this video on his Instagram, where he accuses Michael of killing his mother Patricia by delaying calling an ambulance.

Todd had/has an Instagram account (missing right now) where he posts daily videos of his traveling and musings. Michael was living in Patty's house around the block and down the street when she had a heart attack.

Todd's other videos are of him visiting various sites in Chapel Hill and Durham, in his red Corvette. He does this odd martial art that involves him balancing on one foot while twisting his body around and he does this in very public places. Meanwhile he complains that the cashiers at Wegmans notify the Mexican cartels about his location because he had run ins with them in Cabo where he survived 3 assassination attempts by them for his activism work.

Todd is NOT okay.

So right now, Patty's house was emptied and sold as of last week. Don't know if Michael is still in Durham. Perhaps he's found the next caretaking woman. He's got his military pension and Kathleen's SSI, but I still don't think he can afford Durham on his own.

I kind of felt that last fade out on Kathleen's name was just the production doing the minimum to acknowledge her. I never really felt I understood her from the show. I feel the show never really found it's bearings.

[AZChristian]

20 minutes ago, MrsR said:

Well the time jumps really took a whole new meaning in this episode. Two different techniques in one episode, the concurrent hearings, and then the fake out conversation as if Kathleen had lived. I laughed in the middle of that one when Kathleen said, 'They are all right.' referring to the kids.

I don't know about the rest but Todd is a total headcase. Last fall he published this video on his Instagram, where he accuses Michael of killing his mother Patricia by delaying calling an ambulance.

Todd had/has an Instagram account (missing right now) where he posts daily videos of his traveling and musings. Michael was living in Patty's house around the block and down the street when she had a heart attack.

Todd is NOT okay.

I kind of felt that last fade out on Kathleen's name was just the production doing the minimum to acknowledge her. I never really felt I understood her from the show. I feel the show never really found it's bearings.

The time jumps.  YIKES.  Hard to keep track of what was going on, as we spent the first 15 seconds or so trying to figure out which court hearing it was.  Thank goodness for Martha's and Candace's hair!!!

We watched the Todd video you posted.  Unfortunately, he resembles his father both physically and in his ability to make everything somebody else's fault.

I got a completely different reading on the fadeout to Kathleen's name at the end.  To me, it was production's way of saying, "Michael got more screen time in this series, but Kathleen is who we should be thinking of when it's all over."

Also - that tiny little diabolical grin in the last scene.  That was "Yep, I did it.  I killed both of them and got away with it."  Colin NAILED that silent communication.

[Ellaria]

1 hour ago, MrsR said:

Well the time jumps really took a whole new meaning in this episode. Two different techniques in one episode, the concurrent hearings, and then the fake out conversation as if Kathleen had lived.

Agree on the time jumps. It really took me out of the episode at some points. I don't know how anyone that was unfamiliar with this case prior to watching the series could follow the narrative.

1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

I got a completely different reading on the fadeout to Kathleen's name at the end.  To me, it was production's way of saying, "Michael got more screen time in this series, but Kathleen is who we should be thinking of when it's all over."

Also - that tiny little diabolical grin in the last scene.  That was "Yep, I did it.  I killed both of them and got away with it."  Colin NAILED that silent communication.

That's exactly what I took away from the focus on Kathleen's name at the end. This story should be about her but it always comes back to that creepy little narcissit and his stupid pipe.

I ws critical of some of the middle episodes that focused on Michael's prison drama and Sophie's infatuation. However, I appreciated that the last two episodes took a deeper look at the lives of the children. I have mixed feelings about them. However, there is no doubt that Michael was a destructive force in their lives starting long before Kathleen's death.

I've asked myself what HBO was trying to accomplish with this dramatization. After all, this story is well-known and I'm not sure that this series said anything new about the case itself. Ultimately, I think it was about truth (or lack thereof) in the way that our legal system presents itself as well as truth in our relationships and truth to one's own self. IMO, the version of Michael that we see in this show knows that he isn't authentic...that what he portrays himself to be is fake. Michael looked haunted throughout this series and I loved that interpretation.

The acting was incredible. Colin Firth may not look like Michael but - wow - he captured all of his nuances. Toni Collette and Parker Posey were great.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Ellaria Sand

[MollyB]

1 hour ago, MrsR said:

I don't know about the rest but Todd is a total headcase. Last fall he published this video on his Instagram,

It's creepy how much like his father he is.  He has the same mannerism of talking, glancing at the camera and wandering/posing around his space that his dad does.  I feel both of them are trying too hard to convince me of something.

1 hour ago, MrsR said:

He's got his military pension and Kathleen's SSI,

When my ex-husband died I applied for SSI for me and our two minor children.  The first question they asked?  "Was he murdered?"  I don't think they would grant him the benefits since he was convicted (and then pled guilty) of murdering her.  [That would set a terrible precedent for all us old spouses. ;-) ]  He wasn't able to access Kathleen's monies while he was standing trial and he certainly didn't get it after.  You can't benefit from murdering someone. 

Which makes me wonder-did he get compensated for the documentary?  I've heard of cases where a convicted murderer cannot write a book and keep the income.  Does that apply in this case?

[circumvent]

3 hours ago, MollyB said:

I don't think they would grant him the benefits since he was convicted (and then pled guilty) of murdering her.

That might be true but you would be surprised on hoe much people can access even when they commit a crime. Depends on the state, depends on the judges, and the patriarchy is still strong everywhere. It is the same with rape, where rapists can at least try to stop abortions and have the right to see the child, be part of their lives. It is a mess. 

Is the part of the lives of the children real? The documentary doesn't show any of that and I haven't looked up where they are but it seems very dramatized and fake to me. 

[Kirsty]

I guess Michael fucked his way back into Kathleen's good books. Or maybe it was the alcohol and the black tie ball in addition to the orgasms. I find that believable, but I suspect a relationship like that isn't built to last.

And Michael dumped Sophie the first day he was a free man. I can see why the real documentary makers aren't thrilled about their portrayal on this show! This version of Jean seems like a dope, and this show's Sophie comes off as either a headcase or a moron or both.

Was Michael freezing out Todd because of that time Todd forgot to send him money in prison? I liked watching the family dynamics in this one, as well as the suggestion that the kids don't want to be around Michael anymore. I find Martha likable for her honesty and the way that she's working on herself.

15 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I've asked myself what HBO was trying to accomplish with this dramatization.

Same. I'm not familiar with the real case and this is a strange show that's about twice as long as it should be. The majority of episode five, episode six, and episode seven were spent treading water.

The first four episodes were very suspenseful and they pointed to Michael's guilt. But, in spite of that, I was somehow expected to care about how Michael fared in prison for the following three episodes, when literally no one gives a fuck about Michael's relationship with another prisoner. Sophie is one of those strange women who fall in love with their convicted killer pen-pals, yet the show pretended that was perfectly normal for three episodes so that we could watch Sophie the Amateur Detective learn about owls and try to solve the "mystery". And finally, there was so much about the bats in the attic that I genuinely thought it was important to the case!

That's a whole lot of no-one-cares for an eight episode season. Maybe if they had wrapped up the story in five episodes then they wouldn't have had to rely on egregious product placement for financing.

Still, the performances were strong. Toni Collette is great, and Colin Firth was very unsavoury in this.

Edited June 10, 2022 by Kirsty

[BC4ME]

I suppose it won't affect him one way or the other now but HBO sure decided they would tip their hat to what they believed in that last chilling smile from Colin. I know that goes on all the time on TV but this one surprised me more for some reason.

[Bobcatkitten]

So does anyone know if the part where Michael admits Kathleen didn't know about the men was true? 

[sadie]

Sophie (as portrayed here) is the worst kind of woman. She knew, at the least, this was a guy who mooched off his wife, while cheating on her constantly, and had been involved (or involved adjacent) to the deaths of two women, and yet she is SHOCKED, when she finds out the using user that is Michael Peterson used her too. Shock. I guess she thought SHE was the super special one that this man could love. Blech. 🤮 And he didn’t even waste a single night as a free man to dump her ass and then we have to watch her boo hooing over his final admission that he really is a liar. 
 

i hope the part about his kids finally wising up is true. It is just so depressing to think of all Kathleen did to prop this asshole up and his thank you to her was to cheat on her and murder her. I hope there is a special place in hell for this guy. The smile at the end was chilling, while the middle of this series dragged, I really liked this final ep where Michaels full assholeness was on display. 

[poeticlicensed]

5 hours ago, MollyB said:

minor children.  The first question they asked?  "Was he murdered?"  I don't think they would grant him the benefits since he was convicted (and then pled guilty) of murdering her.  [That would set a terrible precedent for all us old spouses. ;-) ]  He wasn't able to access Kathleen's monies while he was standing trial and he certainly didn't get it after.  You can't benefit from murdering someone. 

I'm not sure how old he is but survivor benefits generally end when the survivor reaches retirement age. Now he may have claimed her retirement benefits from SS, as im sure she made more than he did but since he pled guilty im not sure the federal govt is willing to do that. 

[MollyB]

2 hours ago, circumvent said:

It is the same with rape, where rapists can at least try to stop abortions and have the right to see the child, be part of their lives. It is a mess. 

Personally, I think any rights of paternity should be terminated upon conviction.  Wouldn't one be pleading guilty to rape if they pursued this?  I'm assuming the victim was not consenting to have a rapist's child. 

[peachmangosteen]

Could anyone make out what Kathleen was saying at the end of the little fantasy scene where she was telling Michael the kids were alright and whatnot? I don’t understand why they didn’t just have sound for it lol. It looks like maybe it’s just ‘Why didn’t you tell me?!’ again but I’m not sure.

[BC4ME]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

Could anyone make out what Kathleen was saying at the end of the little fantasy scene where she was telling Michael the kids were alright and whatnot? I don’t understand why they didn’t just have sound for it lol. It looks like maybe it’s just ‘Why didn’t you tell me?!’ again but I’m not sure.

I'm terrible at reading lips but that's what I thought she said.

[marybennet]

3 hours ago, BC4ME said:

5 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Could anyone make out what Kathleen was saying at the end of the little fantasy scene where she was telling Michael the kids were alright and whatnot? I don’t understand why they didn’t just have sound for it lol. It looks like maybe it’s just ‘Why didn’t you tell me?!’ again but I’m not sure.

I'm terrible at reading lips but that's what I thought she said.

That's what I thought, too:  "Why didn't you tell me?" but this time more angrily.  That is, I thought the first time was the way his narcissistic fantasy of her would say it (in a way that says it's ok, worried about him) but the second version seemed like the way a "real" Kathleen might have said it--still possibly somebody who might have been accepting of his bisexuality but who'd be mad that he kept this huge secret.

I really liked the show's filing out of the figure of Kathleen.  Partly that's the wonderful Toni Collette, but it's also that she seemed to be written out of the effects of that woman on that family.  The Kathleen the show portrayed was full of life and warmth.  She loved her pleasures (bath and dancing and alcohol and sex and social life and family), and she seemed like the center that held all those disparate people together.  And her visible stress seemed like a reasonable response to being the person who has to hold everything together.  And the extent to which the family spun out after her death--and after the way she died--speaks to the centrifugal force of who she was alive.  True or not in the world, I don't know, but I think the show wrote a plausible and sympathetic account of her as a person alive and not just the absent victim.

[marybennet]

Just read a really good piece in Slate about The Staircase (https://slate.com/culture/2022/06/staircase-finale-hbo-michael-peterson-murder.html) by someone called Flannery Dean, and she thinks that in the last episode the inaudible thing Kathleen is saying is "Why didn't you help me?"  That's great, I think.

Edited June 10, 2022 by marybennet
Trying to get the link right!

[circumvent]

9 hours ago, MollyB said:

Personally, I think any rights of paternity should be terminated upon conviction.  Wouldn't one be pleading guilty to rape if they pursued this?  I'm assuming the victim was not consenting to have a rapist's child. 

Each case is different. People can be convicted but still claim they are innocent, and still demand rights over the child. In some cases, the mother is obligated to take the kid to see the father. It exemplifies the patriarchal society we live in, and how women still/again have to fight for their rights to their own bodies

I thought the last episode was a doozy. Maybe the odd ending was based on the long monologue Michael gave in the documentary, which I fast forward through. It seemed to me it was a lot of "the kids will be alright" but not really based on where they are and what they are doing in the present

[peachmangosteen]

8 hours ago, marybennet said:

Just read a really good piece in Slate about The Staircase (https://slate.com/culture/2022/06/staircase-finale-hbo-michael-peterson-murder.html) by someone called Flannery Dean, and she thinks that in the last episode the inaudible thing Kathleen is saying is "Why didn't you help me?"  That's great, I think.

That is great. I hope the writers clarify what she said there.

I had a question about the real-life timeline, how old were all the kids when Kathleen and Michael got together?

[bosawks]

This last episode really did drill down on how Michael is a blackhole of narcissism and not one person was the better for being in his orbit.

[Kiddvideo]

I thought the sex scene, the bathtub scene, and the walking into the party scene were gross and out of character for the show. It would’ve felt more intimate if they had alluded to it rather than making it skeevy. The entire series felt disjointed as if there were too many cooks in the kitchen, and no one was the chef.

So the whole thing with the deer — the yard sale, the mall, the front yard — was to lead to the owl theory? So why was it so important that one be missing? That damn deer is going to haunt me when it’s probably just bad craft that left a loose end.

Sophie got out alive, so she should count herself lucky. If they’d stayed together he would’ve felt more and more trapped by his dependence on her and one day he’d lash out at her too when she “demanded” something like he help put the groceries away. (Imagine how quickly that would’ve spiraled if he’d moved to a new city with a different language. Most people would stumble along and get to know the city and pick-up the language over time, but his lack of impulse control would not play well with those challenges.)

He got lucky the SBI analyst got caught lying. At least 8 years behind bars and another 6 years with the possibility of a retrial hanging over his head aren’t nothing.

[AZChristian]

I just pulled up that scene.  It looks to me like in his fantasy thoughts as they were talking, he imagines that he told her about his bi-sexuality and she calmly says, "Why didn't you tell me?" with a smile.  This was in juxtaposition of when they are talking about the kids and she says, "The kids are fine.  You are fine."  Trying to hint that in his imagination - and as he told other people - Kathleen knew about it and was fine with it.

The silent scene was more likely meant to portray her real reaction.  She had logged into his computer and saw e-mails and websites that were gay-oriented.  She went back down to where he was reclining (in other words, doing nothing productive) with a glass of wine in his hand.  She confronts him and screams (soundlessly), "WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME????"  That was likely the beginning of their fight.  She stomped off back to the house, telling him to pack his stuff and get out.  NOW.  The physical altercation happened, and the rest is history.

Different question:  What wife doesn't know her husband's e-mail address?  I can see her asking for his password (some spouses don't share those), but his e-mail address?

Edited June 10, 2022 by AZChristian

[poeticlicensed]

So did that interview where he said Kathleen didn't know about the other men really happen? Because part of his defense was that kathleen knew and accepted his bisexuality. 

Weird that he stayed in Durham. Wasn't his dream to live in Paris? 

[Kiddvideo]

1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

I just pulled up that scene.  It looks to me like in his fantasy thoughts as they were talking, he imagines that he told her about his be-sexuality and she calmly says, "Why didn't you tell me?" with a smile.  This was in juxtaposition of when they are talking about the kids and she says, "The kids are fine.  You are fine."  Trying to hint that in his imagination - and as he told other people - Kathleen knew about it and was fine with it.

If that was his imagination it explains why it felt as oily and distasteful as it did. Thanks!

[AZChristian]

1 hour ago, poeticlicensed said:

Weird that he stayed in Durham. Wasn't his dream to live in Paris? 

Could be . . . but when he lost his Euro meal ticket, who was going to pay his way?  Actually, I thought maybe that "dream" was part of his way of keeping her hooked and involved with him.  I suspect she was putting money in his commissary fund, and once he was released on his ankle bracelet, he didn't need her for that any longer.  He couldn't leave the country with his ankle bracelet, and was not willing to continue to pretend to want to be intimate with her.  

JMO.

[sadie]

3 hours ago, Kiddvideo said:

I thought the sex scene, the bathtub scene, and the walking into the party scene were gross and out of character for the show. It would’ve felt more intimate if they had alluded to it rather than making it skeevy. The entire series felt disjointed as if there were too many cooks in the kitchen, and no one was the chef.

I got the opposite. I thought those very graphic scenes showed yet another way Michael manipulated Kathleen. When he knew she was teetering on being fed up with him, he would turn on the sexual charm to keep her in line. There was something about the way Firth played those scenes that read Peterson wasn’t attracted to her, it was another method of control, something about the detached look on his face. I needed to understand why the hell this woman put up with this lazy deadbeat and this kind of helped answer. It made me even more sad for her, he abused her in so many ways and this was just another indignity he served her, all the while him thinking how powerful he was to pull it off. I believe she discovered his deceptions that night and he killed her, we saw a glimpse of his temper when Sophie was pushing him to move, I think the writers wove all these things together at the end to reveal his true character. People were only is Michael Petersons life to serve Michael Peterson, once they stopped being of use to him he discarded them. 

[drinavictoria]

17 hours ago, BC4ME said:

I'm terrible at reading lips but that's what I thought she said.

The HBO podcast confirmed it. 

[debraran]

Wasn’t it Kathleen’s  sister who said she died the day she met him? So true 

I agree in Colin’s  acting, despite what he says in interviews, you can see a slant to me that he thought he was guilty. Besides the smile I also thought that his detachment in the last sexual scenes seemed to show how manipulative he was. He told Sophie a lot of things when they corresponded because he had a fantasy. In reality she said it started after he got out and ended fairly quickly when she couldn’t leave Paris. So it seems like he never made real plans to go there for good, maybe just a visit. Also if he ever planned  to go back to seeing men, I am sure she would not have put up with that. The real Sophie has complained that they made her involvement seem more than it was and the poetic license might  have made it more interesting for the writers but left a lot of us confused as to what she actually saw in him. 
I hate to think they got into an argument about his bisexuality and that was the reason for her death but really there is no other reason why I think she would’ve permanently left him at that moment. Even if she was angry with him about not working etc. I can see him thinking she would change her mind. And of course it might’ve been an accident that he covered up, a  truly manslaughter charge which is what he got anyway. 

[BC4ME]

I've somehow gotten myself temporarily obsessed with this case after all these years and have now watched a lot of the media around this case. I have a lot of questions I would think are known or should be.

One is, did they actually show an email on his computer that her work sent to her through him? That seems to be the basis of the theory of them fighting over her finding out about his bisexuality that way. Surely this is known one way or the other.

Did she actually have problems with something in her house like bats? If not I don't see the point of HBO showing all those scenes implying that. If the owl attacked her outside that still doesn't tie in.

As someone else brought up, did she actually jump into the pool and have to wear a neck brace? It could explain the valium and possibly the broken cartilage in her neck. It's like they put this stuff in there, didn't really tie it in but depended on viewer speculation. 

It just seems like lots of question that should be answered haven't been. 

I immediately disliked the real Michael in the doc. It'd be easy to want him to be guilty based on those feelings. However, being bisexual he had to live a life of deception so he was no doubt well-versed in it. He was also, being a writer, a story teller. So his dishonest affect and always trying to create a narrative were probably second nature to him. 

I'm still leaning toward the owl theory. Sorry to mix the HBO show with the real life stuff but it's hard to separate.

[debraran]

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/05/the-staircase-editor-sophie-brunet-michael-peterson-true-story

And forgive me, this article has probably been posted (my first time seeing it) I can't believe Sophie said this. Humor? Colin certainly had more charisma than what I've seen in clips but most of the time got his lack of empathy and narcissism well.

"She has seen enough of Firth’s performance to offer these notes."

“Colin Firth is a great actor, but he doesn’t capture the energy and fantastic humor of his model,” explains Brunet. “He does convey some feeling of him though: a man who found himself lying too many times and sometimes loses track of his own truth.”

Brunet, too, suggests she hasn’t always been entirely forthcoming. “Many twists and turns happened that I did not tell Antonio about,” she says. She is an editor, after all.

Edited June 10, 2022 by debraran

[Snazzy Daisy]

Why would Kathleen need to use Michael’s email address? For sure she has one personal email for non work-related stuffs. It would make more sense for her to use Michael’s computer for access to her personal email since she left her laptop at the office.

I have zero sympathy for Sophie. She should’ve known not to expect anything from that lowlife parasite. She should’ve pushed him down the stairs before flying back to Paris.

That final scene with Michael. “I killed my wife” is written all over his face. That smize is f-king creepy‼️

 

ETA: A fun read…

An Ode to HBO’s ‘The Staircase’ and Its Wild Wig Acting

Edited June 10, 2022 by SnazzyDaisy

[Anela]

I know that Colin is a good actor, but he really did creep me out. 

My mother was involved with someone like him, when I was a kid, but she managed to get away from him. he had other women hooked, and when he was driving her crazy, she got out, without him suspecting a thing, until it was done. 

I only saw one episode of the documentary, years ago, but I vaguely remember the trial being aired (along with other celebrity trials, that used to be aired), and I thought he was guilty. 

[Cinnabon]

11 hours ago, BC4ME said:

I've somehow gotten myself temporarily obsessed with this case after all these years and have now watched a lot of the media around this case. I have a lot of questions I would think are known or should be.

One is, did they actually show an email on his computer that her work sent to her through him? That seems to be the basis of the theory of them fighting over her finding out about his bisexuality that way. Surely this is known one way or the other.

Did she actually have problems with something in her house like bats? If not I don't see the point of HBO showing all those scenes implying that. If the owl attacked her outside that still doesn't tie in.

As someone else brought up, did she actually jump into the pool and have to wear a neck brace? It could explain the valium and possibly the broken cartilage in her neck. It's like they put this stuff in there, didn't really tie it in but depended on viewer speculation. 

It just seems like lots of question that should be answered haven't been. 

I immediately disliked the real Michael in the doc. It'd be easy to want him to be guilty based on those feelings. However, being bisexual he had to live a life of deception so he was no doubt well-versed in it. He was also, being a writer, a story teller. So his dishonest affect and always trying to create a narrative were probably second nature to him. 

I'm still leaning toward the owl theory. Sorry to mix the HBO show with the real life stuff but it's hard to separate.

He chose to live a life of deception, because he is a lying coward.

[chediavolo]

On 6/9/2022 at 11:28 AM, AZChristian said:

The time jumps.  YIKES.  Hard to keep track of what was going on, as we spent the first 15 seconds or so trying to figure out which court hearing it was.  Thank goodness for Martha's and Candace's hair!!!

We watched the Todd video you posted.  Unfortunately, he resembles his father both physically and in his ability to make everything somebody else's fault.

I got a completely different reading on the fadeout to Kathleen's name at the end.  To me, it was production's way of saying, "Michael got more screen time in this series, but Kathleen is who we should be thinking of when it's all over."

Also - that tiny little diabolical grin in the last scene.  That was "Yep, I did it.  I killed both of them and got away with it."  Colin NAILED that silent communication.

The time jumps were beyond confusing. I hated it! Just tell the damn story.  Is this supposed  to be some sort of artistic thing? I can’t stand when shows do this & this one was the worst. It ruined it. My husband and I had to keep trying to remember which year we were in. I hope this is not a new trend. Filmmakers plead note: don’t do it! 😡😩

That Michael is one strange man. These unsolved murders drive me crazy. 

[chediavolo]

11 hours ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Why would Kathleen need to use Michael’s email address? For sure she has one personal email for non work-related stuffs. It would make more sense for her to use Michael’s computer for access to her personal email since she left her laptop at the office.

I have zero sympathy for Sophie. She should’ve known not to expect anything from that lowlife parasite. She should’ve pushed him down the stairs before flying back to Paris.

That final scene with Michael. “I killed my wife” is written all over his face. That smize is f-king creepy‼️

 

ETA: A fun read…

An Ode to HBO’s ‘The Staircase’ and Its Wild Wig Acting

Also, What year was this? No phone to access emails? No sympathy for Sophie  either. But she dodged a bullet there. 

[AZChristian]

3 hours ago, chediavolo said:

Also, What year was this? No phone to access emails? No sympathy for Sophie  either. But she dodged a bullet there. 

I think she was expecting a PowerPoint presentation via the e-mail.  

[Snazzy Daisy]

3 hours ago, chediavolo said:

Also, What year was this? No phone to access emails? 

December 9, 2001.

Mobile internet wasn’t a thing yet in 2001. First iPhone (or iPhone 2G) was released in US in 2007.

Edited June 11, 2022 by SnazzyDaisy

[SoWindsor]

I could not follow the time jumps in the restaurant. Did Margaret have the blue hair in 2017 when Michael wore the round glasses because that is what it looked like? Which timeline was Todd heavily drinking? 2011 or 2017? Also I felt like Sophie's hair was not consistent. It was the 2011 style when Michael had on the 2017 round glasses. Did anyone else notice this?

[MollyB]

18 hours ago, BC4ME said:

One is, did they actually show an email on his computer that her work sent to her through him? That seems to be the basis of the theory of them fighting over her finding out about his bisexuality that way. Surely this is known one way or the other.

Exactly.  Pretty sure it would show in the emails and also the computer history.  I think the documentary and the HBO glossed over this, assuming that the viewer is computer savvy enough to assume that.  Would have been nice to see it in the trial, though, if anything, to set up a timeline. Otherwise, it just looks as if the prosecution wanted to convict him for being bisexual.

A comment about the neck injury and her hyoid bone.  My son's a firefighter/EMT and he told me the hyoid bone is well protected by muscle and tissue (and fat) in the front of the neck.  If it was damaged it could only be strangulation.  The kind of cervical collar she wore would be for soft tissue injury to her neck muscles that may have compromised her cervical bones,  No way would she be moving around and taking off the collar if any of those bones were broken.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 6/9/2022 at 9:09 PM, BC4ME said:

I'm terrible at reading lips but that's what I thought she said.

That's what I thought too!  I had no doubt!  I don't think my hearing is very good so I love to try and read lips.  When an actor covers their mouth, I have no idea what they are saying LOL.

On 6/10/2022 at 9:38 AM, peachmangosteen said:

I had a question about the real-life timeline, how old were all the kids when Kathleen and Michael got together?

There's some information here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Peterson_trial

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 6/10/2022 at 11:43 AM, AZChristian said:

Different question:  What wife doesn't know her husband's e-mail address?  I can see her asking for his password (some spouses don't share those), but his e-mail address?

This was 2001.  I'm sure there were many people who didn't even have email addresses then.

[Ms Blue Jay]

6 hours ago, chediavolo said:

Also, What year was this? No phone to access emails? No sympathy for Sophie  either. But she dodged a bullet there. 

2001 is when Kathleen died.

[circumvent]

22 hours ago, AZChristian said:

Could be . . . but when he lost his Euro meal ticket, who was going to pay his way?  Actually, I thought maybe that "dream" was part of his way of keeping her hooked and involved with him.  I suspect she was putting money in his commissary fund, and once he was released on his ankle bracelet, he didn't need her for that any longer.  He couldn't leave the country with his ankle bracelet, and was not willing to continue to pretend to want to be intimate with her.  

I am not sure of how much of Sophie is based on reality. There is nothing on the documentary about that and they make it pretty clear that he was indigent. At some point David dropped him and he had to get a public defender, and it was the same lawyer who got the other guy out after the discovery of the corruption and lies in the department. Then the lawyer had a stroke and the second chair represented him. David came back for the Alford Plea doing pro-bono work. At least that's what the documentary shows. He had absolutely no money to travel and, if this is the general practice in the US, he would have lost his passport too. Many former prisoners cannot have a passport. Not sure if it has to do with probation period or if that would apply to Michael but it happens

[AZChristian]

15 minutes ago, circumvent said:

He had absolutely no money to travel and, if this is the general practice in the US, he would have lost his passport too. Many former prisoners cannot have a passport. Not sure if it has to do with probation period or if that would apply to Michael but it happens

Many former prisoners can get a passport, but some foreign countries will not allow convicted felons to visit, even with a passport.  Visiting France isn't usually a problem, but there may have been a problem if he wanted to move there.

[marybennet]

22 hours ago, drinavictoria said:

The HBO podcast confirmed it. 

Yes, the host of the podcast asked a question that assumed Kathleen was mouthing “why didn’t you tell me?” for a second time, and the writers didn’t correct her. So they seem willing to have it understood that way.  

[Snazzy Daisy]

Love this 80s song!

Quote

Michael looks for Kathleen during a flashback sequence. The track plays from within their home while Kathleen is applying makeup.

Edited June 11, 2022 by SnazzyDaisy

[limestation]

Thanks, HBO, for the hours that I wasted on this boring, tedious POS. I could have been doing any number of things that would have given me far more satisfaction, things like rearranging my spice cupboard or my books. Instead I foolishly invested in this time-travelling snooze fest that had I known would have given me this level of frustration and utter disgust, I would have watched something far more interesting.......like a good infomercial. From the deep well of toxic masculinity we get this vile arrogant Peterson, one of the most repugnant, unsympathetic based-on-a-real-person character I've seen since that hideous Anna Delvey. A man who kept his poor wife completely in the dark about his bisexuality and thus not only exposing her to STDs but also that he was leading this disgusting double life that she knew NOTHING about, despite his lie otherwise. But that matters little because he murders her, apparently in the method he also murdered his first wife!! You'd think this guy being an author and all, could come up at least with a different method but no, good old Mikey goes with the tried and true. This is also the first time I believe I've watched an entire series and HATED every single character. Oh wait! I did like his lawyer but no one else. His kids and other relatives (her sister!!) were just rubbish. Horribly acted, paced, written and if I NEVER hear another word about this heartless bastard Peterson again, that will be just fine. 

Sophie dodged a MAJOR bullet with this snake. Only thing I'm happy about is Peterson did time - lots of it.

[AZChristian]

12 minutes ago, limestation said:

But that matters little because he murders her, apparently in the method he also murdered his first wife!! You'd think this guy being an author and all, could come up at least with a different method but no, good old Mikey goes with the tried and true. 

I agree with a lot of what you say, but Elizabeth Ratliffe (the first woman who mysteriously died at the bottom of a stairway near Michael Peterson) was never his wife.  She was his neighbor, the mother of the two little girls that he and his first wife (Patty) took in after their parents' deaths.  

Patty was his first wife, and also the woman he was living with AFTER getting out of prison.  According to their son, Todd, Michael stood by for three hours while Patty was dying of a heart attack, and never called 911.  

So if you believe that, Michael was probably responsible for the death of both wives and one other woman.  Sophie definitely dodged a bullet (or a "trip" down a stairway).

[debraran]

Well, I love Colin (but would rather have Darcy or any other character) but he couldn't save this one. Granted he couldn't make him "better", he was an awful person, but the rest of the cast, the overacting, why the terrible wigs, so many annoying little things.

I tell myself if he admitted to arguing and she fell, if he got manslaughter anyway, he would have served about the same time. I don't know if we will ever understand all her bruising or blood loss and they didn't have the best forensics.

I don't understand what Sophie saw in Michael, humor or anything else. I don't know why she thought he wasn't capable of doing it, was it because he was well read and could recite poetry? I understand there are crazy people out there, women dated OJ after he slaughtered his wife, but I'll never understand it.

[gesundheit]

On 6/10/2022 at 11:43 AM, AZChristian said:

Different question:  What wife doesn't know her husband's e-mail address?  I can see her asking for his password (some spouses don't share those), but his e-mail address?

If memory serves, this wasn't unusual in 2001. Particularly since she obviously didn't have a personal email, probably just a work one, so likely had rarely if ever emailed him.

Or better put:

On 6/11/2022 at 12:51 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

This was 2001.  I'm sure there were many people who didn't even have email addresses then.

On 6/10/2022 at 5:38 PM, BC4ME said:

However, being bisexual he had to live a life of deception so he was no doubt well-versed in it. He was also, being a writer, a story teller. So his dishonest affect and always trying to create a narrative were probably second nature to him. 

Well, he didn't have to live a life of deception due to being bisexual. Plenty don't!

This series really lost me. I couldn't even tell you one detail about one of the kids except the one who was exploring her history and sexuality, but I also don't remember her name. The others had such vague check-ins with zero context that it was really disorienting.

I'm glad Kathleen was finally given some depth and humanity after all the years of the doc. Largely this series seemed to imply guilt (as in, probably didn't mean to kill her but absolutely did do it and lied about it -- his claim to certainty of it being an accident has always been bizarre, nobody would find someone they love like that and skip past "who the hell did this to her"), or at the very least a callousness after the fact that speaks volumes. What a mess.

[gesundheit]

On 6/10/2022 at 12:57 PM, poeticlicensed said:

So did that interview where he said Kathleen didn't know about the other men really happen? Because part of his defense was that kathleen knew and accepted his bisexuality. 

Yes, that interview really happened