S21.E07: Legacy (2022)

[WendyCR72]

2 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I think Wolf gets listed for every episode because he’s the show’s creator, and Eid gets credit because he’s showrunner/executive producer.

Yep.

Rule of thumb when watching any L&O show across the franchise. The actual writer for an episode comes right before the director credit at the start of the show, after the opening theme/credits. (It's how I came to realize that the franchise loves Jean de Segonzac as a director! He seems to be the predominant go to, although there are others.)

[MarylandGirl]

I kept zoning out during this episode. I mean, it's been a long, stressful week for me. But it just didn't grab my interest like the last one. I do find I tend to zone out more when it's rich people involved. Some of those houses were ridiculous! But the conversations about race between Cosgrove and Bernard felt a bit heavy-handed, too. And I'm still struggling to warm up to the female ADA.

[Door County Cherry]

22 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

As nice as it is that the DA's office has won so many so far, I do hope they eventually do lose, because - as much as it sucks - it's real life. And the Mothership never shied away from it before.

They've won so many cases I think they should have lost that I know they'll eventually lose one I think they should win.  And probably for some stupid reason like having a jury who thinks teaching slavery is CRT and a kill-worthy offense or something.

That whole stuff wasn't needed especially since the argument kept going "I don't think they should do this/It's more complicated than that" over and over again. 

[CrystalBlue]

 

22 hours ago, MaryHedwig said:

I wanted a scene at the beginning where Dixon once again kicks butt on the streets of New York.

22 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

To be fair, "random person or people find dead body" has been the formula forever...

I want both.  May we have both?

[CrystalBlue]

I didn't agree with pitting the family members against each other and having the father on trial when his 17-year-old son brought the gun to school and caused the death of the headmaster Mr. Gleason.  The parents weren't sympathetic at all but I disagreed with initially trying the son Bennett as a juvenile as Maroun suggested.  I was surpised the jury convicted the father.

[shapeshifter]

52 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

I didn't agree with pitting the family members against each other and having the father on trial when his 17-year-old son brought the gun to school and caused the death of the headmaster Mr. Gleason.  The parents weren't sympathetic at all but I disagreed with initially trying the son Bennett as a juvenile as Maroun suggested.  I was surpised the jury convicted the father.

It seemed the son’s violent behavior was a direct result of the father’s routine bullying.   
The family unit was so tightly codependently dysfunctional and so insulated by wealth that “pitting the family against each other” was probably the only remedy to the situation to prevent further harm to themselves and others.   
Too bad the father’s aversion to therapy became an unquestionable stance that ultimately resulted in the seemingly inevitable shooting of someone.
But, yeah. I wonder if there was some deal that could have been struck that included an agreement to family therapy with a professional whose license was recognized by the court and/or the APA.    
But then that kind of deal should be offered to all offenders, regardless of social class.  
But this is Law & Order in the US, not (unfortunately??) Truth & Reconciliation in Rwanda.

[CrystalBlue]

I thought this case was a murder trial, not a dysfunctional family therapy session.  I was glad Jack shut down Maroun's preference to try Bennett as a juvenile but disappointed he gave the go ahead with the enabler of the shooter being tried for killing a man he didn't kill.

[WendyCR72]

1 minute ago, CrystalBlue said:

I thought this case was a murder trial, not a dysfunctional family therapy session.  I was glad Jack shut down Maroun's preference to try Bennett as a juvenile but disappointed he gave the go ahead with the enabler of the shooter being tried for killing a man he didn't kill.

Physically, no. But he just as soon put the gun in his kid's hand. So legally, I get why he was going to prison. In the end, though, his snot-nosed kid should have gone too/instead.

[CrystalBlue]

16 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Physically, no. But he just as soon put the gun in his kid's hand. So legally, I get why he was going to prison. In the end, though, his snot-nosed kid should have gone too/instead.

I understand what happened and all.  I know life isn't always black and white and cut and dried, but this elevation of getting the father of the actual murderer didn't sit well with me.  Dad wasn't Charles Manson indoctrinating and directing his followers to go out and kill people.  By this stance's logic, all school shooters' parents (or whoever else may have raised them) should go to prison for being bad parents, not raising their kids right, not seeking professional help for their children, etc. instead of the actual killers.

[GHScorpiosRule]

15 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

The only time Dick Wolf actually writes episodes - that I have seen - are for the show's pilots. Otherwise, he is the Executive Producer only.

Nope. Wolf wrote a handful of the episodes in the first season, not just the pilot.

But as you stated, and I always looked to see who wrote the episodes when watching. It’s how I knew none of the original writers except two returned for this season. Of course I stopped watching after the fifth episode.

[ZeeEnnui]

Am I the only one that thought that immunity deal for the kid should comes with strings? Mandated therapy for the next five years seems fair. Also, no you go to hell, Toxic Enabler Mommy.

[shapeshifter]

23 minutes ago, ZeeEnnui said:

Am I the only one that thought that immunity deal for the kid should comes with strings? Mandated therapy for the next five years seems fair

I agree, but probably there’s some silly legal reason that can’t be mandated?

Even if they did do this, not all therapists or therapies are effective.

Still, I do think in this case (with the ingrained anti-mental health professional beliefs of the family) mandated treatment would be better than nothing.

[andromeda331]

I thought it would end in a hung jury or not guilty. Of course, the wife has the nerve to be ticked at Price "Go to Hell". I wished someone from the victim's family turned around at that moment and told her to go to hell. Your son murdered someone thanks to the awesome parenting from your husband and you. 

[Xeliou66]

I agree that the son definitely needs intense psychological care now - the DA’s should’ve made that a condition of the plea deal, he shouldn’t just get to go home with his mom like nothing happened, I just didn’t quite buy that the DA’s would give him a complete walk. The mom got no sympathy from me, she should’ve intervened herself and gotten her son help, instead she stood by while her husband indulged her son’s violent streak and paid off teachers to keep them quiet about his violent behavior. The parents can both go to hell.

Overall this episode just felt like a knock off of Loco Parentis, which was a much better episode. I really wish Jack had mentioned that case when talking to Nolan since Jack was the lead prosecutor on that case, it would’ve been a nice parallel and continuity. 

[Samsnee]

This was a weird ep. I enjoyed it but really threw a curve with leading us to think it was about CRT. It seemed too easy to put the dad on trial for a murder he wasn’t even at the scene for. The case wasn’t that strong to begin with and the argument of parental abuse really wasn’t convincing enough to usurp spousal privilege 
 

I like Bernard and Cosgrove having little chats about the social issue of the week, even if they are very surface level. 

[Samsnee]

On 4/28/2022 at 10:23 PM, edhopper said:

Mom was Bonnie Sommerville. Was in NYPD Blue, among other shows.

As soon as I saw her name, I remembered her from the OC. She was also Ross’s girlfriend on Friends for a few episodes. 

[cambridgeguy]

On 4/28/2022 at 11:49 PM, Raja said:

ADA Moroun arguing for juvenile court reminded me of Southerlyn just before she was fired by DA Branch.

Is it sad that I read that as ADA Moron at first?  And it's not great for her character that they skipped the usual scene of the junior ADA at the precinct observing the interrogation, discussing whether or not they should bring charges, etc.  That's usually the one time they can shine without the EADA taking the lead and dominating the conversation.

[love2lovebadtv]

On 4/29/2022 at 8:48 PM, MarylandGirl said:

I kept zoning out during this episode. I mean, it's been a long, stressful week for me. But it just didn't grab my interest like the last one. I do find I tend to zone out more when it's rich people involved. Some of those houses were ridiculous! But the conversations about race between Cosgrove and Bernard felt a bit heavy-handed, too. And I'm still struggling to warm up to the female ADA.

I feel like all their conversations on race are heavy-handed. There are so many more natural ways to show their differences. 

[mythoughtis]

On 5/2/2022 at 11:40 AM, love2lovebadtv said:

I feel like all their conversations on race are heavy-handed. There are so many more natural ways to show their differences. 

Lennie and Green did a much more natural job of it. 
 

Quite frankly, Cosgrove  is rather tone-deaf about disrespectful verbiage and behavior toward his partner.  Although I did get his point about the offensive word being in  the song.  If  it’s in the song, why can’t the song be sung as is by anyone other than a person of color? Or are people supposed to sing the song but substitute a different word - and what should  the word substituted  be?  I agree that word is offensive.  I’d like to see people of any race quit using it in songs. Period. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by mythoughtis

[ML89]

On 4/29/2022 at 5:40 PM, WendyCR72 said:

i.e. Elizabeth, Serena, Alexandra).

Named after Dick Wolf’s kids, IIRC
 

Bit of a flip on “Progeny” from season 5 because this time, the scholarship kid was the bullied one and wow, did the school bend over backwards to help versus the older case. 
 

Bernard and Cosgrove are getting better but that whistle is annoying.
 

ETA- bad research! “Wannabe”

Edited May 8, 2022 by ML89

[Xeliou66]

7 minutes ago, ML89 said:

Named after Dick Wolf’s kids, IIRC
 

Bit of a flip on “Progeny” from season 5 because this time, the scholarship kid was the bullied one and wow, did the school bend over backwards to help versus the older case. 
 

Bernard and Cosgrove are getting better but that whistle is annoying.
 

 

You mean Wannabe from season 5 - that was the episode with the kids at the private school involved in a murder. Progeny was the one about the murder of the abortion doctor where the former priest set it up but had someone else pull the trigger.

[ML89]

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

You mean Wannabe from season 5 - that was the episode with the kids at the private school involved in a murder. Progeny was the one about the murder of the abortion doctor where the former priest set it up but had someone else pull the trigger.

ARGH - yes, I did. Checking titles too fast! Thanks. 

[CrystalBlue]

On 5/3/2022 at 5:56 PM, mythoughtis said:

Lennie and Green did a much more natural job of it. 
 

Quite frankly, Cosgrove  is rather tone-deaf about disrespectful verbiage and behavior toward his partner.  Although I did get his point about the offensive word being in  the song.  If  it’s in the song, why can’t the song be sung as is by anyone other than a person of color? Or are people supposed to sing the song but substitute a different word - and what should  the word substituted  be?  I agree that word is offensive.  I’d like to see people of any race quit using it in songs. Period. 

I really wish the banter between Bernard and Cosgrove would expand beyond racial issues between Blacks and Whites.  We get it:  one man sees the world from a POC view and the other sees the world through the lens of a white man.  Let's move on, please.

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

I really wish the banter between Bernard and Cosgrove would expand beyond racial issues between Blacks and Whites.  We get it:  one man sees the world from a POC view and the other sees the world through the lens of a white man.

I would be fine with it if it was more nuanced. It seems the writers are obligated to present a heavy race issue and resolve it in 2 exchanges of lines, so it feels like a quick downpour of anvils and then nothing. 

Edited May 9, 2022 by shapeshifter
missing word

[Xeliou66]

23 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I would be fine with it if it was more nuanced. It seems the writers are obligated to present a heavy race issue and resolve it in 2 exchanges of lines, so it feels a quick downpour of anvils and then nothing. 

That’s certainly how I felt with this episode, it felt like they were just trying to cash in on the controversies about teaching about racial stuff in schools, it came off as clunky and off-putting, and ultimately had zippo to do with the case. Sometimes I like Bernard and Cosgrove’s dialogue about various issues, but sometimes it just comes off as clunky, as it did in this episode. 

[ML89]

7 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

That’s certainly how I felt with this episode, it felt like they were just trying to cash in on the controversies about teaching about racial stuff in schools, it came off as clunky and off-putting, and ultimately had zippo to do with the case. Sometimes I like Bernard and Cosgrove’s dialogue about various issues, but sometimes it just comes off as clunky, as it did in this episode. 

Feels like they’ve been partners just since the beginning of the season but it’s implied they’ve been partners longer. It’s all confusing. 

Edited May 9, 2022 by ML89

[Xeliou66]

Just now, ML89 said:

Feels like they’ve been partners since the beginning of the season but it’s implied they’ve been partners longer. It’s all confusing. 

They had been partners for 2 months at the time of the first episode I believe. So they haven’t been partners for long. Cosgrove and Dixon have known each other for 7 years so they go back a good way, I don’t know how long Bernard has known Dixon for, although he did call her by her first name in this past episode, which was noteworthy as none of the detectives ever addressed Van Buren by her first name.

Bernard seems to be a bit more edgy and cynical now, I guess that comes with the territory of being a detective for as long as he has, and also his relationship with Cosgrove is very different to his relationship with Lupo - Lupo was more laid back and easy going whereas Cosgrove is very blunt and speaks his mind about everything. 

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

They had been partners for 2 months at the time of the first episode I believe. So they haven’t been partners for long. Cosgrove and Dixon have known each other for 7 years so they go back a good way, I don’t know how long Bernard has known Dixon for, although he did call her by her first name in this past episode, which was noteworthy as none of the detectives ever addressed Van Buren by her first name.

Bernard seems to be a bit more edgy and cynical now, I guess that comes with the territory of being a detective for as long as he has, and also his relationship with Cosgrove is very different to his relationship with Lupo - Lupo was more laid back and easy going whereas Cosgrove is very blunt and speaks his mind about everything. 

It also seemed different to me in this episode as they refered to themselves as Kevin and Kate, not Detective and Lieutenant and she never seemd close to Cosgrove. Maybe Bernand with Lupo overcompensated since he was coming from Internal Affairs to replace a well liked partner and no longer has to play Mister Niceguy as much

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, Raja said:

It also seemed different to me in this episode as they refered to themselves as Kevin and Kate, not Detective and Lieutenant and she never seemd close to Cosgrove. Maybe Bernand with Lupo overcompensated since he was coming from Internal Affairs to replace a well liked partner and no longer has to play Mister Niceguy as much

It’s interesting hearing Bernard’s first name now, when Lupo and Van Buren never called him “Kevin”. It’s interesting as Cosgrove seems closer to Dixon than Bernard does, he’s known her for 7 years, whereas we don’t know how long Bernard and Dixon have known each other. Speaking of what the characters call each other, has anyone else picked up how on Jack calls Maroun “Ms.Maroun”, that reminds me of how Adam used to address the female ADA’s very formally, it’s funny to me that Jack is doing that now, he always called everyone by their first name up until this point. 

[iwantcookies]

It was so boring I only watched the first half. This shows reboot is no bueno. I don’t know if I can even continue watching it.