S02.E01: The Star Gazer

[MissLucas]

1 minute ago, marinw said:

Could everyone please let off Picard for never marrying or whatever? A lot of people (myself included) LIKE being single. Why is this even an issue in the almost 25th Century?

Amen!

Also - the domestic violence scenes were really weird. Wasn't there one where Mama Picard got dragged away on the floor horror-movie-style???

[paigow]

The Star Gazer must be the fastest OR least efficient ship in Starfleet. 4 count em 4 nacelles. 

[marinw]

Where's The Enterprise?

[tennisgurl]

Also, why did Picard dress like a Dickensian street urchin as a child? 

Edited March 5, 2022 by tennisgurl

[paigow]

9 minutes ago, marinw said:

Could everyone please lat off Picard for never marrying or whatever? A lot of people (myself included) LIKE being single. Why is this even an issue in the almost 25th Century?

Beverly could not deal with gay feelings - so she dumped the hot Trill dude that became a hot Trill chick.. so homophobia survived into the future as did 20th century marriage norms. 

[paigow]

9 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Also, why did Picard dress like a Dickensian steer urchin as a child? 

It matches his English accent

[salaydouk]

5 hours ago, norcalgal said:

Not only that, but it no longer requires the command authorization from more than one senior command officer to activate the self destruct?!?!

They got it so wrong that I basically figured why even bring up the fact that both Captain and the XO would have agreed to and initiate the self destruct command. I believe this was confirmed as required in both TNG and for sure DS9( and would be in real life if a ship was to be scuttled.)  Also upon further viewing, I also noticed that when Rios called out Admiral on the Bridge, the crew only stood with an "at ease" position instead of the required "at attention." 

5 hours ago, norcalgal said:

Yeah, I just couldn’t believe the crew members disobeyed a direct order from the ship’s captain!!!  Tsk, tsk Starfleet what has happened to training and discipline?

 Yeah this one also annoyed me. I was screaming at my TV over it... just further evidence that they are getting this just so so so wrong.  While I understand that it is "hollywood", it is still annoying when basic military elements for what is military organization in a show are not handle correctly. So while all the other stuff is annoying... showing soldiers not following orders, is pretty impossible to blow off as "hollywood."  

Edited March 5, 2022 by salaydouk

[wanderingstar]

I really liked this opening episode. It was great getting re-introduced to these characters. 

So, Raffi is back in Starfleet. Did not see that coming. And Elnor is a cadet? Interesting. 

Guinan and Picard's scene was like no time had passed. Loved seeing them together.

Q has always annoyed me, but I really loved when he showed up at the end. Picard's "No, no, no, no, no" was amusing.

[SnarkShark]

Took it's GD time getting to the point.

On 3/4/2022 at 7:53 PM, paigow said:

It matches his English accent

Kinda lame they wouldn't even confirm his mother was English.

On 3/4/2022 at 7:38 PM, paigow said:

The Star Gazer must be the fastest OR least efficient ship in Starfleet. 4 count em 4 nacelles. 

That's not that uncommon if you go by ships that have appeared but haven't been Hero ships driving a show.

[paigow]

5 hours ago, salaydouk said:

They got it so wrong that I basically figured why even bring up the fact that both Captain and the XO would have agreed to and initiate the self destruct command. I believe this was confirmed as required in both TNG and for sure DS9

TOS!Kirk needed Spock AND Scotty to authenticate Self Destruct...

[millennium]

On 3/4/2022 at 1:02 PM, benteen said:

While it's nice to get a deeper look at Picard past, I don't like the domestic violence angle they seem to be pursuing.  I don't think it fits with Picard's history or with Star Trek itself. 

TOS seemed to promote the idea there was little or no crime anymore, no poverty, none of the ugly human traits that formerly plagued society.   Something as violent and ugly as domestic abuse would seemingly have no place in Star Trek society, what with everybody being so enlightened and all.

On 3/4/2022 at 7:48 PM, paigow said:

Beverly could not deal with gay feelings - so she dumped the hot Trill dude that became a hot Trill chick.. so homophobia survived into the future as did 20th century marriage norms. 

I have seen that episode several times and never got the impression Beverly was homophobic.  She explained that while she loved the trill guy, humans can't so easily and immediately adjust to such changes.  I thought it was a fair and honest explanation.   On the same series we also saw Riker fall for a member of an androgynous/intersexed species without any self-flagellation.

On 3/4/2022 at 6:49 AM, Llywela said:

Also, it is Rios, not Rio.

His name is Rios and he dances on the sand

[cambridgeguy]

7 hours ago, salaydouk said:

They got it so wrong that I basically figured why even bring up the fact that both Captain and the XO would have agreed to and initiate the self destruct command. I believe this was confirmed as required in both TNG and for sure DS9( and would be in real life if a ship was to be scuttled.) 

That has been variable.  In TOS it took three officers to do it. Then in TNG it just needed the captain and XO before they switched back to three in First Contact (and Riker wasn't needed to do it, senior officers were good enough).  DS9 stuck to two, but then in Voyager Janeway was able to do it by herself. 

[Haleth]

I caught up on season 1 some months ago and have been looking forward to this.  While not a super fan I have always enjoyed the ST shows and I adore Patrick Stewart.  It was great that everyone from the first season is back and the characters are mostly together again (or will be, based on the previews).

I was watching The View when Patrick Stewart was a guest and the genuine affection he and Whoopi have for each other was evident.  At that time they joked about bringing Guinan back so I'm sure PS made it so.  Not sure if she'll have further scenes with him, it may have been just something fun for the two of them to do together.  I bet PS and John de Lancie had a blast together too.

10 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Also, why did Picard dress like a Dickensian street urchin as a child? 

Summer theater?

7 hours ago, SnarkShark said:

Kinda lame they wouldn't even confirm his mother was English.

Maybe that's why she was speaking English, not French.  😊

Edited March 5, 2022 by Haleth

[Sandman]

On 3/3/2022 at 3:38 PM, MissLucas said:

This might be sacrilegious to admit but I would watch this show even without Picard.

Does this mean I wasn’t the only one surprisingly brimming with affection for these characters and struck by how glad I was to see them again? After the cold open (er, “hot open”?), I kept thinking “Hi, Raffi! Hi, Seven! Agnes, aw. Hi, Cris!”

I thought Laris’s feelings for Picard kind of came out of left field, but I was glad to see the Irish Romulan again, too.

I was a little surprised to see almost everyone back in the Starfleet fold. Too bad we didn’t get a scene of Admiral Clancy’s choking on the offer to make Picard Chancellor of the Academy!
 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Sandman

[paigow]

4 hours ago, millennium said:

On the same series we also saw Riker fall for a member of an androgynous/intersexed species without any self-flagellation.

Riker [& Kirk] drew the line at necrophilia... anything else was on the menu...

[Sandman]

5 hours ago, millennium said:

TOS seemed to promote the idea there was little or no crime anymore, no poverty, none of the ugly human traits that formerly plagued society. Something as violent and ugly as domestic abuse would seemingly have no place in Star Trek society, what with everybody being so enlightened and all.

The existence of something like Section 31 has never sat right with me for similar reasons. It seems too Cold War-ish, too much of our time. (But that’s a whole other rant, I guess.) 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Sandman
I always get the name wrong.

[starri]

4 hours ago, millennium said:

I have seen that episode several times and never got the impression Beverly was homophobic.  She explained that while she loved the trill guy, humans can't so easily and immediately adjust to such changes.  I thought it was a fair and honest explanation.   On the same series we also saw Riker fall for a member of an androgynous/intersexed species without any self-flagellation.

Gates McFadden has always said that in her headcanon, Beverly was bisexual, and didn’t have a problem with the host being a woman. 
She’s also always said she thought it was stupid and regressive that they didn’t let the two characters kiss, which she had offered to do. 
 

Raffi was bi from the start. The woman she begged for clearance for the Artifact from was supposed to be her ex. 

[Sandman]

On 3/3/2022 at 4:32 PM, marinw said:

Because Jeri Ryan is gorgeous! 

Yes — and, I think, because Seven has a greater range of expression — vocal as well as facial — available to her now than when she was first learning how to be human again. The Picard version of Seven seems more fully alive to me. 

[MissLucas]

28 minutes ago, Sandman said:

The Picard version of Seven seems more fully alive to me. 

Probably because she's allowed to breathe.

[Mirabelle]

The writers, producers, and actors of Star Trek have mostly been far more progressive than the studio and network who made and aired the show. There were a lot of small things they wanted to do that were nixed by the studio or network - I remember reading the show wanted to have two men holding hands in the background of a scene set in Risa but a higher up wouldn't let them.

3 hours ago, Sandman said:

Does this mean I wasn’t the only one surprisingly brimming with affection for these characters and struck by how glad I was to see them again? After the cold open (er, “hot open”?), I kept thinking “Hi, Raffi! Hi, Seven! Agnes, aw. Hi, Cris!”

 

I would have been perfectly happy if the last episode of season one was the crew deciding to rename the ship Picard in honor of the man who had just died and then spent their time working with the Fenris Rangers. Think A-Team in space - they had the skills!

[dwmarch]

4 hours ago, Sandman said:

Too bad we didn’t get a scene of Admiral Clancy’s choking on the offer to make Picard Chancellor of the Academy!

He doesn't even like kids! The sheer fucking hubris!

[Mirabelle]

I forgot to mention regarding security ignoring Rios' order to cease fire - I've had a theory that security is where the mediocre or misfit Starfleet graduates end up. They can't all be officer material or research/engineering oriented. So where do you put the Academy graduate who barely passed the classes but didn't particularly stand out or show an aptitude for any particular science? Assign them to security. That would explain why security is so horrible in general. 

[paigow]

5 minutes ago, Mirabelle said:

So where do you put the Academy graduate who barely passed the classes but didn't particularly stand out or show an aptitude for any particular science? Assign them to security. That would explain why security is so horrible in general. 

Also the higher than average mortality rate of redshirts requires less stringent standards or ships would leave spacedock with hologuards...

[salaydouk]

7 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

That has been variable.  In TOS it took three officers to do it. Then in TNG it just needed the captain and XO before they switched back to three in First Contact (and Riker wasn't needed to do it, senior officers were good enough).  DS9 stuck to two, but then in Voyager Janeway was able to do it by herself. 

Yeah honestly there are too many instance of the self destruct mechanism being engaged in all of Trek that I have lost count... and I never watched enough of Voyager to even know they dropped it to one.  But for sure only the CO is wrong, that is too much power in one individual.  And having be CO and XO or at least the CO and one Bridge command officer would make sense. 

  

[paigow]

1 hour ago, dwmarch said:

He doesn't even like kids! The sheer fucking hubris!

The easy way out is that he marries Laris and subsequently adopts Elnor

[Llywela]

1 hour ago, Mirabelle said:

I forgot to mention regarding security ignoring Rios' order to cease fire - I've had a theory that security is where the mediocre or misfit Starfleet graduates end up. They can't all be officer material or research/engineering oriented. So where do you put the Academy graduate who barely passed the classes but didn't particularly stand out or show an aptitude for any particular science? Assign them to security. That would explain why security is so horrible in general. 

To be fair to the crew, most of the continued firing came from the security detachment just arriving on the bridge, who weren't there to hear the cease fire order, they just arrived to find a Borg queen in the middle of taking over the ship with bodies scattered all around, and reacted. The noise and chaos of the moment did the rest.

[salaydouk]

1 hour ago, Mirabelle said:

I forgot to mention regarding security ignoring Rios' order to cease fire - I've had a theory that security is where the mediocre or misfit Starfleet graduates end up. They can't all be officer material or research/engineering oriented. So where do you put the Academy graduate who barely passed the classes but didn't particularly stand out or show an aptitude for any particular science? Assign them to security. That would explain why security is so horrible in general. 

I dont think so... lower graduate or less smart does mean you don't know/understand the most basic tenet of the military - that you follow orders. This is simply not a hard concept.

1 hour ago, paigow said:

Also the higher than average mortality rate of redshirts requires less stringent standards or ships would leave spacedock with hologuards...

Redshirts = Security = Dangerous Situations... The red shirt joke being understood, it still remains it is straight probability - the more often you are in a dangerious situation, the more chances you have to die.  

Also there is a very real likelihood that there would be certain Federation races that would naturally be suited for and choose Security over Command or Sciences and it wouldn't mean they are dumb or that their skills are any less important. The Klingons are the obvious example and now the Barzan.  It really does takes a tremendous amount of smarts and ability to survive in the field especially in a combat situation for days on end - so I really won't discount them.  

30 minutes ago, Llywela said:

To be fair to the crew, most of the continued firing came from the security detachment just arriving on the bridge, who weren't there to hear the cease fire order, they just arrived to find a Borg queen in the middle of taking over the ship with bodies scattered all around, and reacted. The noise and chaos of the moment did the rest.

Yes and no... There were two insertions of security officers to the bridge and the bridge crew.  The bridge crew and the first insertion continued to fire after Rios told them to stand down - that is wrong. The second insertion came onto the bridge without hearing any stand down orders and they fired - based on the situation it is a toss up whether or not to take issue for them coming in "hot" and not assessing the situation or looking for orders first. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by salaydouk

[marinw]

What is with Rios' cigars? Smoking is now allowed on Starships? Or is it the synthehol equivalent of tobacco?

[paigow]

Fair to say that not every Security member is a dimwit. Also not every member is Jason Bourne / Ethan Hunt / Steve Rogers.

[marinw]

6 hours ago, paigow said:

Also not every member is Jason Bourne / Ethan Hunt / Steve Rogers.

Or Jack Bauer. Now I want Jack in Starfleet!

Edited March 6, 2022 by marinw

[salaydouk]

9 minutes ago, marinw said:

What is with Rios' cigars? Smoking is now allowed on Starships? Or is it the synthehol equivalent of tobacco?

I thought it was more of a "safety blanket." That he just needs to have something in his hands when he is bored on the bridge.  Though I have to say, I had hoped that when he was running back to his command chair that he would "chuck it" halfway across the bridge.  I think he had a lighter too, but I dont think he actually lit up?  Did he?

 

 

[Llywela]

 

1 hour ago, salaydouk said:

I thought it was more of a "safety blanket." That he just needs to have something in his hands when he is bored on the bridge.  Though I have to say, I had hoped that when he was running back to his command chair that he would "chuck it" halfway across the bridge.  I think he had a lighter too, but I dont think he actually lit up?  Did he?

No, he never lit the cigar. He flicked the lighter once or twice, but that, like holding and chewing the cigar itself, seemed to just be a a comfort thing. He likes to have something in his hands to fiddle with.

[paigow]

1 hour ago, marinw said:

Or Jack Bauer. Now I want. I want Jack in Starfleet!

Jack only seemed to like every other POTUS... Wonder where this Federation President would be in his cycle... Is she the new Logan?

[salaydouk]

5 minutes ago, Llywela said:

No, he never lit the cigar. He flicked the lighter once or twice, but that, like holding and chewing the cigar itself, seemed to just be a a comfort thing. He likes to have something in his hands to fiddle with.

Given the whole fire in space equals bad... wasn't there a TNG episode where the Enterprise sent out a beam/force field to contain and extinguish a fire that some passengers started?  So where was that system when Rios was turning his lighter on and off?   🤔

[Llywela]

Just now, salaydouk said:

Given the whole fire in space equals bad... wasn't there a TNG episode where the Enterprise sent out a beam/force field to contain and extinguish a fire that some passengers started?  So where was that system when Rios was turning his lighter on and off?   🤔

Maybe that's why he clicked it on and off so quickly and quietly, just for a second - not enough to trigger the alert.

Someone needs to buy that man a fidget toy! 😃

[Chit Chat]

2 hours ago, Llywela said:

No, he never lit the cigar. He flicked the lighter once or twice, but that, like holding and chewing the cigar itself, seemed to just be a a comfort thing. He likes to have something in his hands to fiddle with.

I would hope that in the future, tobacco will be a thing of the past.  Given the number of deaths that occur due to tobacco use, it's surprising that it's still around now.  Sigh.  I'm disappointed to see them use the cigar as a prop - lit or not lit.  

[Ceindreadh]

45 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

I would hope that in the future, tobacco will be a thing of the past.  Given the number of deaths that occur due to tobacco use, it's surprising that it's still around now.  Sigh.  I'm disappointed to see them use the cigar as a prop - lit or not lit.  

Maybe in the future they'll have developed a non-toxic tobacco to make cigars with. 

[Sandman]

3 hours ago, Llywela said:

Someone needs to buy that man a fidget toy! 😃

Cristóbal “Captain Spinner” Rios. 

[paigow]

3 hours ago, salaydouk said:

Given the whole fire in space equals bad... wasn't there a TNG episode where the Enterprise sent out a beam/force field to contain and extinguish a fire that some passengers started? 

I think some cargo containers accidentally [or sabotaged] caught fire and Geordi beamed them off the ship.  Another time Geordi & Beverly intentionally set plasma conduits on fire then dropped the cargo bay force field to extinguish it.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Loved that version of Time is on My Side. IMO, the Stones should've left it alone.

Poor Jean-Luc. Every time he thinks he's out, they pull him back in!

Dang, the Borg have seriously upgraded.

Q!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I heard the rumors but didn't believe it.

This season looks amazing. Good to have this show back.

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, Ceindreadh said:

Maybe in the future they'll have developed a non-toxic tobacco to make cigars with. 

Only if it's non-staining to the teeth!  As a hygienist, I'd rather clean 3mm of calculus wrapped around a tooth than I would tobacco stain.  That stuff is a bitch to remove!!   In the Star Trek universe, you'd think that they would have a simple remedy for addictions like this, seeing as how they seemingly cure some of the most serious diseases by then.   If not, maybe people will wise up by then and quit poisoning themselves with that shit.  ;) 

[Sandman]

24 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

That stuff is a bitch to remove!!   In the Star Trek universe, you'd think that they would have a simple remedy for addictions like this, seeing as how they seemingly cure some of the most serious diseases by then.

“Set phasers on polish!”?

[Chit Chat]

37 minutes ago, Sandman said:

“Set phasers on polish!”?

Dang, I need to invent one of those!!  :)  

[millennium]

1 hour ago, Sandman said:

“Set phasers on polish!”?

I'm reminded of an old Cracked magazine treatment of Star Trek that went something like:

Kirk: "Everybody set phasers on stun."

Sulu: "Captain, sensors indicate this planet is inhabited by beautiful women."

Kirk: "In that case, set phasers to 'caress.'"

4 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

Maybe in the future they'll have developed a non-toxic tobacco to make cigars with. 

And a non-smells-like-shit tobacco while they're at it.

[salaydouk]

4 hours ago, paigow said:

I think some cargo containers accidentally [or sabotaged] caught fire and Geordi beamed them off the ship.  Another time Geordi & Beverly intentionally set plasma conduits on fire then dropped the cargo bay force field to extinguish it.

I found the episode I was thinking of... It was S2 "Up the Long Ladder"  And the concept was a force field envelopes the the fire and starves it of oxygen thus ending the fire.  So no manual intervention is required the ship just does it.  I know the Geordi&Beverly episode you are taking about though need to rewatch but like most things the two eps will turn out to be incongruous.   

Either way Rios can make fire on a space vessel...

[Llywela]

4 hours ago, ChitChat said:

In the Star Trek universe, you'd think that they would have a simple remedy for addictions like this, seeing as how they seemingly cure some of the most serious diseases by then.   If not, maybe people will wise up by then and quit poisoning themselves with that shit.  ;) 

I'm pretty sure they do have simple remedies, but the individual still has to choose to accept that treatment. It was established for Raffi last season that she did not want to be cured, she enjoyed giving into her addictions too much, deliberately chose to wallow. Once she'd decided not to indulge anymore, though, she just stopped cold - I'm guessing medical intervention would have helped with that, off-screen.

We've never been told the content of Rios's cigars. He used to smoke freely on La Sirena, but only held and chewed the cigar, unlit, on Stargazer.

As for people wising up, TNG suggested that most have, but as with all things, it remains an individual choice, and people are still people.

[cambridgeguy]

15 hours ago, salaydouk said:

Given the whole fire in space equals bad... wasn't there a TNG episode where the Enterprise sent out a beam/force field to contain and extinguish a fire that some passengers started?  So where was that system when Rios was turning his lighter on and off?   🤔

I'm pretty sure the system can be configured not to react to such a ludicrously small flame - I'm reasonably sure crew have had romantic candlelit dinners and lit candles on a cake without activating some sort of forcefield. 

And if Starfleet is really worried about fires they should do something about their exploding consoles.

Edited March 6, 2022 by cambridgeguy

[Pallas]

I think everything that happened after Picard's seeing off his friends at the Academy, and his waking up back at Chateau Pétain, could be a Q-induced hallucination. Q would have loved the concept of the Kobayashi Maru test ("Sanctimonious sadism! Humanity at its finest!"); after spying on Picard's, he was inspired to invent a similar no-win scenario as his own cold open.

Very little that took place on the Star Gazer made sense: it was one anomaly after another, from the wacky procedures to Edith Piaf as a send-off and his mother's admonition. And Picard's conversation with Guinan not only employed Q's "I'll just age up!" trick, but also neatly laid out the themes for this adventure that Q is orchestrating.

[SnarkShark]

45 minutes ago, Pallas said:

I think everything that happened after Picard's seeing off his friends at the Academy, and his waking up back at Chateau Pétain, could be a Q-induced hallucination. Q would have loved the concept of the Kobayashi Maru test ("Sanctimonious sadism! Humanity at its finest!"); after spying on Picard's, he was inspired to invent a similar no-win scenario as his own cold open.

Very little that took place on the Star Gazer made sense: it was one anomaly after another, from the wacky procedures to Edith Piaf as a send-off and his mother's admonition. And Picard's conversation with Guinan not only employed Q's "I'll just age up!" trick, but also neatly laid out the themes for this adventure that Q is orchestrating.

It'd be weird though, mostly in the sense that (previously) Q didn't really do subtlety.  He's typically pretty overt in setting up his tests.  

[Llywela]

Yeah, I'm inclined to believe that everything we saw was real, those scenes used to establish where everyone is now - a few short cuts may have been taken for time, and the final escalation of the crisis was rushed, but nothing seemed 'off' to me. The scenes on the Stargazer were fine, the only real anomaly I saw was Picard ordering the self-destruct instead of the ship's captain and that was mostly I suspect done for the dramatic constraint of this being Picard's show and therefore all the biggest moments having to be about him. In-universe I can just about wave it away as fleet admiral's override, or something.

I've seen complaints about so many characters being back in Starfleet now, so I'll note that Picard, Raffi and Rios all make sense to me, since none of them wanted to leave in the first place; all three are clearly much happier now that they have smoothed things out and been able to pick up the threads of their careers in various forms. Elnor is the one whose reasoning I'd like to explore a little - it makes a certain amount of sense to me that he'd join up, given how much he was shown to idolise Picard (and Rios a bit) last season, but it's a huge big leap from everything he knew on Vashti with the Qowat Milat, and that feels like a character development worth exploring in a bit more depth.