The Cassadines: Cold as Ice (Princess)

[ulkis]

I keep seeing speculation that Helena is going to implant Robin with the Stavros/Lulu e****o (I can't take typing that fucking word anymore) and if that happens I'll just be in the corner rocking myself. WHY would Helena use Robin to do that instead of a healthy, younger, non-resistant donor who'll just think Helena is a cuddly grandmom. But this is Ron, so anything goes. gah.

[TeeVee329]

I personally still think that embryo is going to be used for a future WTD situation - whose embryo was Lulu implanted with, Dante's or Stavros'?

[HeatLifer]

I don't see Robin being implanted. Hasn't she suffered enough? Damn.

[ulkis]

oh lord, both options are both super unappealing. Lante don't need another baby and Stavros needs no babies ever, especially not with his son's half-sister. If that happens, I can only hope Lulu miscarries.

 

oh, and since I'm here, what the hell happened to Molly? I wonder if HP got another job.

Edited October 15, 2014 by ulkis

[TeeVee329]

oh, and since I'm here, what the hell happened to Molly? I wonder if HP got another job.

 

I was just wondering that myself, Molly and TJ have both vanished.

[OnceSane]

Your Cassadine topic!

Talk about the crazy of Stavros, Helena, or Mikkos. Discuss Alexis Davis' penchant for bad boys, Kristina Corinthos-Davis' Mob Princess ways, or Molly Lansing-Davis' writing abilities. Or even ponder what could have been with the never-seen Valentin, the seldom-seen Victor, or the should-be-seen Stefan.

[Ambrosefolly]

To bad, because the one good thing about Michael running ELQ is that he could hire both TJ and Molly as interns. 

[jsbt]

I keep seeing speculation that Helena is going to implant Robin with the Stavros/Lulu e****o (I can't take typing that fucking word anymore) and if that happens I'll just be in the corner rocking myself. WHY would Helena use Robin to do that instead of a healthy, younger, non-resistant donor who'll just think Helena is a cuddly grandmom. But this is Ron, so anything goes. gah.

 

That's what I thought when that happened too, sorry to say.

[ulkis]

My God, if that happens, it's like how many women can Ron grossly violate.

 

Not to mention, it just makes no fucking sense why Helena would do that.

 

Not to make light of a serious subject, but it would crack me the hell up if at the end of all this shit everyone was like "what was your master plan Helena! What?" and some Greek nurse runs out and is like "uh sorry I forgot to tell everyone but Helena's been fucking senile for a while now. Her plans are just bullshit she pulls out of her ass."

[loveigniting]

All these resurrected Cassadines and annoying-kid-Cassadines and newbie-not really Cassadines and still no fucking Stefan. Sigh. 

 

I actually started watching GH as a kid during the Lulu-gets-sick storyline so those Cassadines and their relationships were, like, formative shit in my soap viewing experience. It's a shame to see how they've fallen - all that gothic potential wasted smh. 

 

Stefan was always my fave. Nikolas too - TC was beautiful and I remember ranting in my diary about him hooking up with Katherine. My tweenie self was not okay with that shit lmao. I still hold onto my love of Alexis for nostalgic reasons.

 

I still ship Stefan/Alexis tbh. I have no shame. They thought they were cousins anyway until they found out they were brother and sister so, I mean, it could have happened!

 

Nikolas - I love him in anything familial and hate virtually all his relationships, Nikolas/Gia being the exception and the outlier. I prefer to forget Nikolas/Courtney though I guess it was just symptomatic of who Nikolas had become at that point. Nikolas/Lydia had potential IMO and that never got off the ground - damn you Nem for getting in the way of my fondness for arranged marriage tropes. I liked Nikolas/Liz and Nikolas/Britt for half a minute in 2013 and then I got irritated by both. Nikolas should just be a monk and be the best family person and friend he can be because I can't handle him romantically.

[ulkis]

I could have liked Nem if the actress weren't so bad and the writing not so treacly. Too bad.

I saw someone suggest that maybe Nik is working with Stefan and I was like I could have gotten behind that except for one thing - I need to see the moment Nikolas and Stefan reunite, if he ever comes back. No reunited offscreen crap.

[HeatLifer]

I've only really shipped one Nik relationship and that was Nik/Gia. I liked Robin/Nik for a hot sec, though.

I just think Nik is a product of what usually happens on soaps when you have a longtime character....they hook up and fall in love with too many people and the fans are left exhausted from the ride. There are only a few soap couples that really last and everyone else just flounders from one person to another.

I'll always love Nik no matter what, it seems. They nearly destroyed him with Nem and Em's rape and then Liz, though.

[loveigniting]

I could have liked Nem if the actress weren't so bad and the writing not so treacly. Too bad.

I saw someone suggest that maybe Nik is working with Stefan and I was like I could have gotten behind that except for one thing - I need to see the moment Nikolas and Stefan reunite, if he ever comes back. No reunited offscreen crap.

 

Back when Amber Tamblyn played Emily, I thought they could go there someday and, eventually when they did, I hated it. It was too sweet and the soulmate nonsense ugh. Their slobbery love scenes, the faux Johnny Depp, and the past lives nonsense traumatized me. Emily was adopted ffs so how did a Q ancestor look like her??? <breathe breathe> Same thing with Liz. When Lucky 'died', I thought that would have been the perfect time to do Niz and then have Lucky come back and...drama. It was horrible and character destroying when they eventually did it.

 

 

I've only really shipped one Nik relationship and that was Nik/Gia. I liked Robin/Nik for a hot sec, though.

Same for me as well. I forgot about Robin/Nik. His crush on her after he was shot in the throat and she was reading (?) to him was pretty cute.

[HeatLifer]

Robin helped him with his speech. Nik's jealousy over JnR was hilarious. But a part of me is glad they never went there with Robin/Nik 'cause I really like their friendship.

[SlovakPrincess]

I didn't like the Cassadines in the 90s, but, yes, they were ten million times better than the nonsense we're getting with them now !

The show hasn't really known what to do with Nik in years. In the last decade, they just kinda move him around based on what's getting a lot of attention at any given moment ... Courtney was a thing for a while, so they put him with her. Emily and Sonny was a huge bust, so Nik ends up back with her for a bit. JJ coming back as Lucky was a big deal, so Niz happened to ratchet up that drama. Then the stuff with Britt, then the show got tired of Britt, so now he's in the middle of the insane super villains plots. Oh, and he's there to facilitate Spencer.

He doesn't have much of a consistent view point and hasn't for a while.

Edited January 21, 2015 by SlovakPrincess

[LeftPhalange]

 

so now he's in the middle of the insane super villains plots. Oh, and he's there to facilitate Spencer.

 

And he'll be there when Liz gets bored with Ric.

[jsbt]

If they gave him a consistent focus and story, Tyler could really own the role again. Let Nik be scheming or some kind of force in the town, or give him a very strong new partner. They don't have an interest in that because to Ron, Nikolas - and most males in particular, IMO - are just clueless chess pieces for story. It's part of why I wanted the newly-outlawed Anna to conspire with him against Helena and maybe they can end up in bed for a fling. Why not? What are those two doing otherwise that's so great? And you know they'd jump in.

[ulkis]

I've only really shipped one Nik relationship and that was Nik/Gia. I liked Robin/Nik for a hot sec, though.

I just think Nik is a product of what usually happens on soaps when you have a longtime character....they hook up and fall in love with too many people and the fans are left exhausted from the ride. 

 

I don't think they paired him off with too many people after Emily died. I think they didn't write any of his pairing with any effort after that and they all flopped because of that. Guza just stopped caring at that point. They didn't have to try with Emily/Nik because it had a built-in fan base at that point.

 

But yeah in general for such a hot guy Tyler has not really had the best luck with chemistry and romance. I'm surprised they never gave him anything during his first stint (well they tried with the ridiculous Sarah but it was a shitty effort) but I guess Guza really couldn't really fit it in with all the other stuff going on in the Cassadine story.

[Tiger]

It's part of why I wanted the newly-outlawed Anna to conspire with him against Helena and maybe they can end up in bed for a fling. Why not? What are those two doing otherwise that's so great? And you know they'd jump in.

 

You want Anna to cheat on Dante?

 

REPENT REPENT REPENT REPENT!

[ulkis]

And it's a shame because a story of Nikolas embracing his darker Cassadine instincts could be a good one, but this story is half-baked and makes no sense.  "Nikolas is doing awful things, but he feels suuuper bad about it, so it's okay!".  No.

 

 

The problem is with these "Nik goes evil/grey" stories is, first of all, Nik hasn't been a boy scout since 1999. And even then, his very first scene on the show he was a jerk to pipsqueak floppy haired Lucky. Secondly, they always have to spell it out. Ohhhh nooo you're becoming like a CASSADINE now! Why can't he just do whatever without constant comparison? Just do it. Don't have Lulu or Liz pop in and go "aaach, Cassadine!!" and then pop back out. Third, Stefan and Alexis are not evil, so this "you're becoming eeeevil like your family now is dumb." Sure, Stefan's last stint was ridiculous but everyone knows it was bullshit. Stefan was manipulative, he was hardly evil, certainly no more so than Luke. Plus, we know Nikolas is not gonna go full blown on Cassadine. Does anyone want Tyler Christopher muha-ha-ing about how Liz is his ice princess now? No.

 

Nik has always been grey since about 2003. He doesn't kill and rape people, but he's hardly some boy scout. He's just been grey in one of the most boring ways possible, contributed to by Tyler's often apathetic performance. He's often just come across as an bored skeeve who thinks he's entitled to whatever he wants and then when it messes up for him, blames it on the fact that Emily died. Or that Emily was so cold to him after his rape and so that's why he turned to Courtney.

Edited February 21, 2015 by ulkis

[HeatLifer]

My question is does anyone actually believe that Nik would keep this Jason information to himself? Thinking back to the Nik on our screens for years and years and how he's interacted with friends and loved ones. Would he sit back and watch Liz possibly fall for and enter into a relationship with Jakeson? Would he sit back and watch Sam go on with Patrick? Would he sit back and not ask Helena follow up questions about Robin?

IMO, he would never. Not unless lives were being threatened. So, for me, Nik may not be a good guy in the way Dante and Nathan are good guys, but there are lines Nik would never cross and hasn't crossed in a very long time.

[jsbt]

Sure, he's always been grey, but I just don't buy the sudden changeover to hardcore schemer for Nikolas. Sure, he's had his dark periods, but there was always a reason or motive. Nik literally began enabling Helena's schemes and telling his son to love her and harboring her with no problems overnight. It makes no fucking sense.

[HeatLifer]

The only way this makes sense is if Nik is playing Helena to try to bring her down for good. I mean, it's still dumb, but it's not like the alternative of ELQ and the election rigging is better.

[ulkis]

My point was  (well one of them) was just that I get annoyed everytime Nikolas does something relatively "evil" his friends and family are like, "oh no Nikolas you're going Cassadine!" Can't they just say he's acting like an asshole. 

 

Would he sit back and watch Liz possibly fall for and enter into a relationship with Jakeson? Would he sit back and watch Sam go on with Patrick?

 

 

No to the first, and I think yes to the second. Since when does Nikolas particularly care for Jason? I can buy he'd want to keep his relatives away from someone who used to be a hitman. Of course they haven't articulated it on screen so it's kind of a moot point.

 

Sure, he's always been grey, but I just don't buy the sudden changeover to hardcore schemer for Nikolas. Sure, he's had his dark periods, but there was always a reason or motive. Nik literally began enabling Helena's schemes and telling his son to love her and harboring her with no problems overnight. It makes no fucking sense.

 

it doesn't make any sense, but my point was these stories are annoying because the other characters always act like "oh shit son he's going full blown Cassadine" when he hasn't raped or tried to freeze the world and we know he probably won't.* What he's doing is bad now and you're makes no sense but it's not full-on cartoon Cassadine stuff.

 

*If he does I'll be the first to go WTF.

 

It's too bad because I've always loved Nik, Stefan, and Alexis and now Ron has used Nik's presence as an excuse to bring on every schlocky think about the Cassadines back. (I acknowledge that Ron is hardly the first to do this though.)

Edited February 21, 2015 by ulkis

[dubbel zout]

Would he sit back and watch Liz possibly fall for and enter into a relationship with Jakeson? Would he sit back and watch Sam go on with Patrick?

No to the first, and I think yes to the second. Since when does Nikolas particularly care for Jason? I can buy he'd want to keep his relatives away from someone who used to be a hitman. Of course they haven't articulated it on screen so it's kind of a moot point.

 

I disagree he wouldn't tell Sam that Jason is alive. Nik might not like Jason, but he's supposed to love Sam and want her to be happy. She was happy with Jason. 

 

Nik is essentially a decent person who allows himself to wallow when things don't go his way. That's a lot of people. If he's doing all this to finally bring Helena down for good, I'll be surprised. Nik isn't that smart or capable, for one thing. And why is now the time to get rid of her? Why didn't he do something when she returned with Faison? Plot points, of course, but I don't think Helena is so much more terrible this time around that Nik has decided he's had enough.

Edited February 21, 2015 by dubbel zout

[ulkis]

I guess, I've never gotten the impression that Sam and Nikolas care that much about each other. If Nikolas could date Brook Lynn after she tried to screw Lulu over and he slept with his brother's fiancee, keeping the secret from Sam doesn't seem as out there for him to do (just to use examples from previous regimes instead of Ron's stuff).

Edited February 21, 2015 by ulkis

[OnceSane]

I guess Ron wants Nik to be the new dangerous Cassadine everyone worries will cause destruction and pain. It makes sense to retire Helena (though I don't think that's Ron's plan AT ALL), and have a new younger villain. I'm also sure it will suck.

[ulkis]

Yeah, I think he would have left her dead if that's the case.

 

I doubt Nikolas will descend that far into villainy, but you never I guess, with Ron.

[HeatLifer]

Nik and Sam have never been besties, but she's just one part of the equation. There are too many reasons Nik would never keep this secret.

And I kinda feel like this is a way for the Robin stuff, when it's eventually going to be exposed, to fall all on Nik. I can just see Patrick and Sam now. "Nik never told us!!!!!"

[TeeVee329]

I guess Ron wants Nik to be the new dangerous Cassadine everyone worries will cause destruction and pain.

 

But then why show Nik being all conflicted, "woe is me!" about it?

Edited February 22, 2015 by TeeVee329

[OnceSane]

But then why show Nik being all conflicted, "woe is me!" about it?

Because bad guys have feelings too, dammit!

IOW, I don't know.

[HeatLifer]

I think it's another case of Ron's half-ass characters and having his cake and eating it, too. Nik can keep the secret and feel bad, so it makes it OK!

[Melgaypet]

    In the episode thread, Rancide said:

 

TC has always been a champion cryer.  Right up there with KMo and JT.  Remember when people used to call him the snot prince?  Because his nose runs uncontrollably when he cries, and he used to cry all the time.

 

Possibly UO, but I think TC is one of the better actors on the show.  He's just unfortunately somewhat limited as a romantic lead and has had perpetually terrible material to deal with.  I actually liked him with Britt because they were both weirdos, so the lack of traditional "romantic chemistry" worked.  TC is pretty terrible at stereotypical soap romance, and his fairly tale romance stories always fall flat, but he makes a good family member, friend, and business person.  I think the character is under- (and poorly) utilized.

 

I'd love to see the show experiment with some RoNik once Robin comes back and kicks Patrick in the balls for the way he's acted for the last year.

 

I agree, Tyler is a good actor when he makes the effort. Even back when he first started he was a great raw talent, and I think GH was his first real acting job. Of course, he then had the advantage of excellent scene partners - Stephen Nichols, Genie Francis, Jonathan Jackson, Tony Geary (back in the days when he made the effort). For a long time, TC was one of those actors who lived or died with his scene partners - opposite good actors he would raise up to their level, opposite bad ones he would slide down. I think he's well past that now - he can easily carry a scene or elevate other actors.

 

And word on the hit-or-miss romantic chemistry.  I've only seen him manage it with Mary Beth Evan's Katherine and Alicia Leigh Willis' Courtney (two characters I loathed), Kelly Thiebaud (in a low-key way and whose Britt I still miss), and Kimberly McCullough (and Nikolas and Robin were never actually a couple!). It's kind of weird.

[ulkis]

Anyone who hasn't read this hilarious parody of the "endgame" storyline must do so now

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20050207021427/http://www.generalshmospital.com/endgame1.htm

Edited March 10, 2015 by ulkis

[ulkis]

so Stephen Nichols tweeted a picture of an eyepatch yesterday, and it's not the first time, so I guess he's going over to DAYS. Damn it, Frank Valentini should have thrown in some sample toothpastes into whatever they were offering him, damn it.

[SlovakPrincess]

So ... Alexis. I only had a small window of liking her, and that was only because Sam was being such a pill in the mid 2000s era, getting mad that Alexis wouldn't give up her MonkeyVirus! antidote to Sam's foster brother and die for him or whatever, and then sleeping with nasty Ric while Alexis had cancer. I at least had some sympathy for Alexis, even though I thought Sam being her daughter was dumb.

But I have many issues with Alexis. First, she teamed up with Luke for a series of laughably failed attempts to kill Helena. You're a lawyer, lady. Get your shit together and stop commiting crimes ... or at least do a competent job at it using your knowledge of evidence and such.

Then the Sonny sex. Ok, fine, she made a mistake. She developed a healthy hatred of the mob after her sister got killed. But then she married Ric after the panic room grossness. Really? You want to procreate with that guy? And now she's with another mobster? And she keeps lawyering for Sonny?

Alexis isn't the worst or dumbest character in this sea of idiocy. But she has always bugged me. And as a general rule, I didn't care for the Cassadines circa 90s, anyway.

Is Alexis Mikkos' illegitimate kid? Is that why Helena killed her mother?

[OnceSane]

Yes, Alexis' mother was Mikkos' mistress.

[dubbel zout]

Alexis has one point going for her that none of Sonny's other women can say: She slept with him exactly once and has never wanted to do it again. That will always keep her in my Like column.

[SlovakPrincess]

That is something. But then she married Ric! Did she not know the full story of panic room (that's actually an honest question - was that covered up somehow?).

[dubbel zout]

She told Ric his penis was bigger than Sonny's, so still on the plus side for me.

[JaneDigby]

Anyone who hasn't read this hilarious parody of the "endgame" storyline must do so now

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20050207021427/http://www.generalshmospital.com/endgame1.htm

 

Holy guacamole, the Marzipan's Endgame parody!!! The Shmospital board was so dang awesome. Intelligent debate about the show at a time when there was something worth thinking about. I loved that place. Good times. 

[Ambrosefolly]

There's nothing to infer Kristin Bergman was a golddigger, though. She was an opera singer, so it's not like those singers cannot amass income.

 

I think Helena was just evil. Evil doesn't need a cause.

Didn't Mikkos sponsor Kristin? She was fucking another woman's husband, in all honesty, I don't feel too sorry that Helena killed, just that Alexis saw it (something I remember reading Constance Tower was against). I am not denying that Helena was evil, but I just think that Kristin was gold digger. I also dislike how somehow Mikkos was totally wonderful because he loved Alexis (only told to her in a letter and Stefan had to take it upon himself to protect her) and how Alexis implied that Mikkos, that attempted world freezing psycho, was somehow driven to his evil because of Helena. Helena was evil, Mikkos was evil, they deserved each other and Kristen wasn't that special and lower than a whore.

[ulkis]

No, I think both Helena and Mikkos first spotted her at the opera but I'd have to go back and check.

[SlovakPrincess]

Helena is a nasty, petty POS, and there hasn't really been a rhyme or reason to her evil-ness for a while.  She just pops up whenever the idiot writers want to "explain" something.  All the villains on this show now are complete trash.   

 

Now Mikkos ... he at least had some gumption and some vision and some creativity.  I mean, yeah, he built an evil weather machine.  But he was only going to threaten the world with freezing and then build a new world order where nobody would go hungry again.    At least he had a plan for all his wickedness.  He didn't just go around kidnapping and threatening people willy-nilly like his witch of a wife.   And he would have killed Dr. O within seconds of meeting her, just for being annoying and pathetic.  

 

And never forget ... he had enough class and manners to die and stay dead.  

[tallyrand]

Admittedly I have been watching on and off, but has Sam and Nik had a scene yet where she tells him off?  Other than the fall with Jason, has Nik had any comeuppance at all? Any scenes with Alexis or Carly?

[Oracle42]

Nope - because this show is determined to make shitty choices

[dubbel zout]

Nik and Carly don't interact much anyway, so that doesn't bother me. It would be like Michael railing on Liz. There's really no history between them for it to mean much.

[tallyrand]

That wouldn't stop Carly though LOL.  But really, no scenes with Alexis?

[UYI]

Nik and Carly don't interact much anyway, so that doesn't bother me. It would be like Michael railing on Liz. There's really no history between them for it to mean much.

 

I mean, there was the whole John Jr./Spencer mess, but Carly would be the one confronting Nik here. Not that she minds screaming at people in general, though. 

[dubbel zout]

The baby thing was ages ago, and no one has mentioned it in years. For which I'm eternally grateful, as it spares us more "But you did this thing that was worse!" "No, you did this and it was worse!" arguments.