Freestyle Skiing

[JTMacc99]

[crimsongrl]

I watched the qualifying for Men's and Women's Moguls and the lighting is so bright you can't really see the course. I hope they adjust the lighting or the final is in the daytime.

[Arynm]

I didn't think it was super bright, but they could fix the contrast so we can see more of the moguls, I agree there.

[choclatechip45]

It looked like you could see the dirt on the course!

 

[blackwing]

I'm a bit puzzled at the obsession of the American media over Eileen Gu.  Yes, she is beautiful, and yes, she is now a gold medallist.  But if there hadn't been the hullabaloo over her choosing to ski for China (and whether she did or did not give up her American citizenship), she would just be another great Olympian from another country.  NBC was positively obsessed with her.

There are more than a few Americans with dual citizenship that are representing other countries at the Olympics.  This is usually because they aren't good enough to qualify for the American team, so they use their dual citizenship to represent their other country.

But Eileen Gu's case is different because she was not a Chinese citizen and she acquired Chinese citizenship in order to represent China.  She has been cagey about whether she did or did not renounce her American citizenship.  Since the US generally doesn't allow one to acquire citizenship in another country without renouncing US citizenship, and since China doesn't allow dual citizenship, it's believed that she has gotten special treatment.

I'm not sure why there is so much focus on her, as opposed to others (like now-Hungarian short track speedskater John Henry Krueger and now-Russian snowboarder Victor Wild) who have done the same thing.  Especially Krueger, he was a huge star for the US short track team in 2018, and this time around, NBC hardly talked about him.  The first time we saw him this year was in the mixed team relay and it would have been the perfect time to do a segment about him and why he chose to do what he did.  But I guess he's no Eileen Gu.

Edited February 8, 2022 by blackwing

[cambridgeguy]

11 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I'm a bit puzzled at the obsession of the American media over Eileen Gu. 

I think you've just laid out all of the reasons why the media has blown up over her.

Attractive?  Check.  Elite?  Check.  Born and raised in the US but competing for the "enemy"?  Check.  You can draw in the people who just like skilled athletes, people who will root against anyone who pulls what they see as a Benedict Arnold, and the self righteous who will rail against her for affiliating herself with a country with such massive human rights violations. 

[Guest]

Poor Tess Ledeux was devastated after falling and "only" getting silver. She was clearly not feeling Gu's consoling hug and eventually fell to the ground in tears. Fortunately bronze medalist Mathilde Gremaud talked to her and seemed to bring her out of it, with Ledeux eventually putting her hand on Gremaud's shoulder as if to thank her for bucking her up, which was a nice moment. And then Randomly Appearing Thomas Bach was there to give her some kind words as well, which I'm sure she appreciated 😆

[meep.meep]

I watched the early runs of Big Air before switching to Peacock for the skating.  You could not pay me to even look down that course, much less ski down backwards.  I kept asking my daughter where the netting was!  It looked like you could hook a ski and just head over the side with nothing to stop you.

[Guest]

I found it somewhat amusing/horrifying that most of the coaches gave their skiers fist bumps before they headed out into the void, but some hugged as if they were saying "nice knowing you!"

[blueray]

5 hours ago, blackwing said:

.

But Eileen Gu's case is different because she was not a Chinese citizen and she acquired Chinese citizenship in order to represent China.  She has been cagey about whether she did or did not renounce her American citizenship.  Since the US generally doesn't allow one to acquire citizenship in another country without renouncing US citizenship, and since China doesn't allow dual citizenship, it's believed that she has gotten special treatment.

This actually isn't true. I know multiple people with US Citizenship and another countries (some live in the other country). They however, do have to "pay" US taxes. Which in my aunt's case, she lives in Canada  and became a Canadian citizen 5 years ago, after marrying (a Canadian citizen) and raising kids there. But she is still an US citizen as well. She didn't actually owe anything as she didn't make money in the US but still had to file. This is very common and lots of people are Duel Citizens. 

That being said, I personally don't care me which country she skies for and what her Citizenship status is. As the later especially is none of my business. The one complaint I had, was yesterday. The announcer was saying how great this is for China's skiing program. Perhaps she will inspire people, however she lives & trains in the US. And has plans to go to Stanford for college. So calling her win a great inspiration for China's ski team, seemed to be kind of a cheat. As she doesn't train there and has no plans to either. 

I kept thinking that she is completing in China because of the money and attention. Which she is hardly the only one to take the opportunity as it was available. I also thought that she was probably "stuck up and arrogant" as only that kind of person would do it for the money/attention. Up until I saw her (and the other girl) comfort the silver mentalist. It was nice to see. I'm not sure what her reason is for competing for China. But if that is where she feels her identity is, who am I to say otherwise. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by blueray

[DrSpaceman73]

Eileen gu chose to ski for China in the Olympics despite the chinese government being an oppressive regime acused of genocide and human rights violations. And she is doing it while they are hosting the event and doing all they can to cover up the injustices occurring in their country.  She is assisting them in turning a blind eye to the wrongdoings of that country.  

She either is doing it for money because China is a huge market or she truly believes in the actions if the Chinese government. Neither is a good reason.  

 

[greyhorse]

I'm a little confused by the Eileen Gu story as well too.  She said she is skiing for China because she wants to inspire young girls in China to take up skiing.  There was some comment about how she was excited to learn that 300 million Chinese have taken up ski sports, and she seemed to be sort of claiming responsibility for that.  There was some past video of locals watching her do some jumps, so I'm assuming maybe she had some clinics for kids.

So does she feel she wouldn't have the same kind of impact here in the US?  Probably is right.  America is obsessed with alpine and snowboarding, as evidenced by Shiffrin, White, and Chloe Kim.  But these aerial sports don't stir up much excitement.  And thus likely not much marketing and dollars.  I'm assuming she can make bank in China and sounds like she's already got a brand.

Watching the men tonight, I'm surprised that there's not much more injuries.  Several yard sales at the bottom of the hill tonight.  How do they avoid getting hurt?

14 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

Poor Tess Ledeux was devastated after falling and "only" getting silver. She was clearly not feeling Gu's consoling hug and eventually fell to the ground in tears. Fortunately bronze medalist Mathilde Gremaud talked to her and seemed to bring her out of it, with Ledeux eventually putting her hand on Gremaud's shoulder as if to thank her for bucking her up, which was a nice moment. And then Randomly Appearing Thomas Bach was there to give her some kind words as well, which I'm sure she appreciated 😆

Noticed this as well.  Unlike the other displays of sportsmanship in a lot of the other events we saw, she clearly wasn't feeling it and seemed to have missed the memo.

[NUguy514]

I fast-forwarded through everything related to Eileen Gu Monday night, and I wish NBC would ignore her completely. She was born in the US, educated here, and trained here and chose to represent her mother's home country of China. All that's well and good and happens often, but it usually happens when an athlete thinks he/she won't make the American (or whatever home country's) team (that's actually the case for Gus Kenworthy who was at least born in the UK and who wouldn't have made the US team this year); that's not the case with Gu, who would've made the American team without question and been the gold-medal favorite regardless of which country she represented. She said she made the switch to inspire even one girl to pursue skiing/sports, and that's utter bullshit: she switched so that she could make a shit-ton of money in endorsements, and she has indeed made a shit-ton of money in endorsements and is the face of the Olympics in China and a key cog in the propaganda machine. This young woman was raised in the Sea Cliff neighborhood of San Francisco (one of the richest neighborhoods in that city), learned to ski at Lake Tahoe, went to one of the most prestigious private schools in SF, and will go to Stanford next year; she is already incredibly privileged. If she were honest about the fact that she (and I'm sure her mom was hugely influential in this decision, too) is going after the money, I'd be less bothered, but she isn't being honest about that. Moreover, she has made public statements about BLM and anti-Asian violence here, which she can do since, for all our many problems, we still have freedom of speech in this country, but has said absolutely nothing about the Uyghur genocide in China or the crackdown on Hong Kong. She says she wants to use sport "as a force for unity," which is hypocritical bullshit when she can't and won't say anything about China's many human rights violations (lest she be given the Peng Shuai treatment) and actually be some kind of force for unity. She sold out for the money, and I find her prevaricating about it gross.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, greyhorse said:

19 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

Poor Tess Ledeux was devastated after falling and "only" getting silver. She was clearly not feeling Gu's consoling hug and eventually fell to the ground in tears. Fortunately bronze medalist Mathilde Gremaud talked to her and seemed to bring her out of it, with Ledeux eventually putting her hand on Gremaud's shoulder as if to thank her for bucking her up, which was a nice moment. And then Randomly Appearing Thomas Bach was there to give her some kind words as well, which I'm sure she appreciated 😆

Noticed this as well.  Unlike the other displays of sportsmanship in a lot of the other events we saw, she clearly wasn't feeling it and seemed to have missed the memo.

I wouldn't say it was bad sportsmanship; I think she was in shock. Gu came up to her right after she had fallen (and she hadn't gotten her score yet), so I think she was still processing it and was kind of in zombie mode, just staring straight ahead with no expression. Sometimes unexpected disappointment trumps the ability to be all smiley and gracious right in the moment. I felt bad for her.

[blueray]

As for the Tess Ledeux thing, I could have sworn I heard the announcer say something about her losing her father last year. It was in passing, I may have misheard. But if this is the case. Then she is sad that he wasn't there to see her win her first Olympic medal, at the same time she is happy to have won anything. So she was going through multiple emotions at the time. And I think just missing the gold medal would have been down the list. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, blueray said:

As for the Tess Ledeux thing, I could have sworn I heard the announcer say something about her losing her father last year. It was in passing, I may have misheard. But if this is the case. Then she is sad that he wasn't there to see her win her first Olympic medal, at the same time she is happy to have won anything. So she was going through multiple emotions at the time. And I think just missing the gold medal would have been down the list. 

Turns out you are correct. Her father passed in January 2021, so it's very near the first anniversary. That would indeed explain the emotions.

[Daisy]

boy i love ski cross. Canada has one rep - kinda sucky when one semi final had three LOL oh well. hopefully we can get a win here

[Daisy]

well our gold medal streak is over (in this event) but silver is just as lovely!

[greyhorse]

Watched women's ski halfpipe last night.  Is it just me, or is the halfpipe just not as exciting when the athlete is on skis as opposed to a snowboard?  Very few of the women could elevate out of the pipe, some hits looked like they barely cleared the lip because they were going so slow.  Do the skiing men get 20 feet out of the pipe like the Japanese boarders do?  I guess maybe there's less surface area on skis so maybe that's why you go slower?  Somebody smarter than me perhaps could explain the physics.

Because of this, I wasn't really that interested.  Sure, wanted to see if the American born but perhaps now China citizen Eileen Gu could medal and win.  And of course, to see if the US women could podium.

Eileen Gu has gotten a lot of flak here about her heart wrenching decision to ski for her mother's home country.   She said it was so she could inspire millions of Chinese girls to get into snow sports.  Uh huh.  Guess she thought she couldn't do the same here like what Chloe Kim and Shaun White before her did for snowboarding in the US?  These stars got their start on the little hills in Big Bear outside Los Angeles and rose to worldwide fame.  So it can be done.  

But we all know why she did it.  A reported $42 million in endorsements.  And it worked.  I know Eileen Gu's name because of the "controversy" but couldn't even tell you who skied for the US.  She and her mother are so business savvy and got it right, so kudos to them.  Everything about her image is perfectly attended to.  The makeup, the ski jacket, the lifting the goggles up to make sure the camera sees her pretty face when she's waiting for her score, etc.  Got to hand it to her. 

I heard her postrace interview where she made a comment about how she was one of only two women to ski all races, the only woman to make finals of all three disciplines.  And then she said something like "And I think somebody just told me that I'm the only extreme sports athlete to medal three times in a single Olympics."  As if she didn't know that?  I'm sure she did.  

I think she would have been less criticized if she was just honest.  "Hey, I can make bank in China because I'm half Chinese.  Nobody cares about freestyle skiing here in the US.  The amount of endorsements I'll get by becoming the face of the Bejing games far outweighs what I'd get here in the US.  I love my country and this is my home.  But it's simply a business decision to ski for China."  Mad props to her if she could have said that.

[legaleagle53]

Was I the only one who gasped out loud when Gus Kenworthy hit the wall on his second run? I was certain he'd snapped his neck from he way he slammed into the lip!

[choclatechip45]

so during the snowboard halfpipe they talked about how snowboarders just focus on the halfpipe.

Obviously Eileen is talented to do Big Air, Slopestyle and halfpipe so is it different in skiing? or is she just anomaly? 

[twoods]

I think she’s the anomaly because she did very well in Big Air when half pipe is her speciality. Both are completely different IMO and the fact that she got a ho-hum silver in freestyle just shows how good she is. It seems like the other skiers like her as well, she seemed to be very excited for the other medalists, so kudos to her for doing very well and making herself a household name in China. I saw an American bobsledder who deflected from Canada and don’t see her getting the same flack that Gu did, and it seems like the Chinese love her since she’s fluent in Mandarin. 

[choclatechip45]

3 minutes ago, twoods said:

I think she’s the anomaly because she did very well in Big Air when half pipe is her speciality. Both are completely different IMO and the fact that she got a ho-hum silver in freestyle just shows how good she is. It seems like the other skiers like her as well, she seemed to be very excited for the other medalists, so kudos to her for doing very well and making herself a household name in China. I saw an American bobsledder who deflected from Canada and don’t see her getting the same flack that Gu did, and it seems like the Chinese love her since she’s fluent in Mandarin. 

Thanks! I wasn't sure which one is her speciality!

Yeah as an American I don't care if she represents China. I do think giving up your American passport when you are a minor is a big decision for any 15 year old to make, but it seems like she didn't have too for whatever reason same with the American hockey players on Team China. 

[galaxygirl76]

This half pipe event should have been postponed.

[emmawoodhouse]

1 hour ago, galaxygirl76 said:

This half pipe event should have been postponed.

They said that weather conditions tomorrow were going to be even worse. Wind has fucked with several of the outdoor events. 

[Daygo88]

I started watching the Winter Olympics in the 90's. I was excited when Kristi Yamaguchi won gold in skating but I heard she didn't get a lot of endorsements and many thought it was because of her Japanese heritage. Then I remember waiting on my dial up computer in 1998 to see who won in Nagano and the first headline I saw on NBC was "American beats Kwan!" As an Asian American, it's kinda cool that people actually care now who Eileen Gu plays for. It's also a bit disturbing hearing pundits on some networks call her a traitor.

I agree it was really for the money but I respect her for being fluent in Mandarin. I moved to several countries in Asia in my 20's. I met a lot of Asian Americans who come to their parents' home countries. They can't speak the language and think they can become famous there just because they were born in the U.S. and think they have some unique self-confidence that sets them apart from the locals. Anyway, good for her for getting all those medals and actually learning the language of the country whose giving her all that endorsement money.

[blueray]

12 hours ago, choclatechip45 said:

Thanks! I wasn't sure which one is her speciality!

Yeah as an American I don't care if she represents China. I do think giving up your American passport when you are a minor is a big decision for any 15 year old to make, but it seems like she didn't have too for whatever reason same with the American hockey players on Team China. 

Ellieen is 18 I'm pretty sure. She is going to Stanford next year. So she's an adult and can make her own choices.

 

Also I think it was freestyle skiing that I was watching yesterday. I was really happy for the 36 year old to win silver. According to announcers he was the oldest skier to ever win a medal in skiing. 

Edited February 19, 2022 by blueray

[choclatechip45]

2 hours ago, blueray said:

Ellieen is 18 I'm pretty sure. She is going to Stanford next year. So she's an adult and can make her own choices.

 

Also I think it was freestyle skiing that I was watching yesterday. I was really happy for the 36 year old to win silver. According to announcers he was the oldest skier to ever win a medal in skiing. 

Eileen has said multiple times she had to make the decision at 15 years old. `You can't decide a few months before the Olympics what country you are representing. Those decisions are made years in advance. 

[NUguy514]

The racism directed at Gu is beyond disgusting; it also completely obfuscates legitimate criticism of Gu.  The issue for me where Gu is concerned is not that she chose to follow the money; to be fair, I think it's very reasonable to assume her mother had a huge hand in this decision.  However this decision came about, though, she isn't being honest that she followed the money and, as part of the deal, has allowed herself to be used as a propaganda tool for an authoritarian regime that is currently committing mass genocide and enforcing slave labor.  She is THE face of the Olympics in China and is getting massively paid for it, so good for her.  I wonder if the girls she proclaims so loudly to want to inspire include any Uyghur girls, as they're being enslaved, raped, and murdered by the government with which she made this lucrative business deal.  She'll get to return to the US now, go to Stanford, and enjoy the freedoms that come with living here, like continuing to post on social media about sociopolitical issues in the US (which is good); however, she won't say a single word about any of the Chinese government's policies.  It's completely hypocritical, and it's completely fair to criticize her for it.

[Rootbeer]

18 hours ago, Daygo88 said:

 

I agree it was really for the money but I respect her for being fluent in Mandarin. I moved to several countries in Asia in my 20's. I met a lot of Asian Americans who come to their parents' home countries. They can't speak the language and think they can become famous there just because they were born in the U.S. and think they have some unique self-confidence that sets them apart from the locals. Anyway, good for her for getting all those medals and actually learning the language of the country whose giving her all that endorsement money.

From what I've heard, from the time she was a toddler, Eileen spent several months every summer visiting family in Beijing with her mother.  I expect that accounts for her fluency in Mandarin.  I saw an interview with people on the street in China who seemed very impressed with her Beijing accent.  So, Eileen had a big advantage that most kids of immigrants from China and elsewhere don't get; deep immersion in the language and culture of her mother's homeland from an early age.  It probably made it much easier for her to say 'yes' when the Chinese Olympic officials dangled a big bundle o' cash in front of her.  And her familiarity with the language and the country itself probably made her more attractive to them and gave her some leverage in negotiating the deal.

I have no problem with her skiing for China, but it would be nice if she could acknowledge the privileges that she has as a Chinese Olympic athlete that the vast majority of the Chinese population will never have.  I realize why she cannot.  It's not just money, she's got a large number of family and friends there who would probably suffer if she were to speak out.

Edited February 20, 2022 by Rootbeer

[blackwing]

On 2/19/2022 at 12:15 PM, NUguy514 said:

The racism directed at Gu is beyond disgusting; it also completely obfuscates legitimate criticism of Gu.  The issue for me where Gu is concerned is not that she chose to follow the money; to be fair, I think it's very reasonable to assume her mother had a huge hand in this decision.  However this decision came about, though, she isn't being honest that she followed the money and, as part of the deal, has allowed herself to be used as a propaganda tool for an authoritarian regime that is currently committing mass genocide and enforcing slave labor.  She is THE face of the Olympics in China and is getting massively paid for it, so good for her.  I wonder if the girls she proclaims so loudly to want to inspire include any Uyghur girls, as they're being enslaved, raped, and murdered by the government with which she made this lucrative business deal.  She'll get to return to the US now, go to Stanford, and enjoy the freedoms that come with living here, like continuing to post on social media about sociopolitical issues in the US (which is good); however, she won't say a single word about any of the Chinese government's policies.  It's completely hypocritical, and it's completely fair to criticize her for it.

 

On 2/19/2022 at 9:15 PM, Rootbeer said:

From what I've heard, from the time she was a toddler, Eileen spent several months every summer visiting family in Beijing with her mother.  I expect that accounts for her fluency in Mandarin.  I saw an interview with people on the street in China who seemed very impressed with her Beijing accent.  So, Eileen had a big advantage that most kids of immigrants from China and elsewhere don't get; deep immersion in the language and culture of her mother's homeland from an early age.  It probably made it much easier for her to say 'yes' when the Chinese Olympic officials dangled a big bundle o' cash in front of her.  And her familiarity with the language and the country itself probably made her more attractive to them and gave her some leverage in negotiating the deal.

I have no problem with her skiing for China, but it would be nice if she could acknowledge the privileges that she has as a Chinese Olympic athlete that the vast majority of the Chinese population will never have.  I realize why she cannot.  It's not just money, she's got a large number of family and friends there who would probably suffer if she were to speak out.

The media always goes on and on about how she chose to ski for her mother's home country.  I get it.  She is half-Chinese, half-white, and apparently the identity of her father has never really been publicly confirmed or acknowledged.  There was a guy who said he was, whether it was true or not, who knows.  But she is obviously a lot closer to her mom than her dad, if she even knows who he is.

My issue stems from her lack of openness and transparency. 

1)  A large part of her decision is obviously about the money.  She is earning way more in China as a Chinese athlete than she ever could hope to earn here in the U.S. as a Chinese-American athlete.  Look at Chloe Kim... I'm sure she does OK for herself but even with her stardom, to most people she was one of those "oh yeah, I remember her from four years ago, she's great, she's still competing?!?" athletes.

2)  The whole caginess about whether she did or did not give up her American citizenship.  Supposedly China doesn't allow dual citizenship.  Why not just be open about it?  "No, I didn't have to give it up.  From an American perspective I am American and from a Chinese perspective I am Chinese.  China doesn't recognise my dual citizenship but America does, and I still have my American citizenship."  Her repeated dodgings of the questions seem a bit shady to me.  Did she get a special deal from China?  Is it the same deal as those other Americans, like the ones on the Chinese hockey team?

[Mittengirl]

23 hours ago, blackwing said:

2)  The whole caginess about whether she did or did not give up her American citizenship.  Supposedly China doesn't allow dual citizenship.  Why not just be open about it?  "No, I didn't have to give it up.  From an American perspective I am American and from a Chinese perspective I am Chinese.  China doesn't recognise my dual citizenship but America does, and I still have my American citizenship."  Her repeated dodgings of the questions seem a bit shady to me.  Did she get a special deal from China?  Is it the same deal as those other Americans, like the ones on the Chinese hockey team?

This ^ is the part that is annoying me.  What is she/her “people” trying to hide.  Either she gave up her citizenship or she got a deal from China.  The fact that she won’t give a straightforward answer is what keeps people asking the question.  Just answer the question honestly or be prepared to face it forever.