S23.E12: Tommy Baker's Hardest Fight

[WendyCR72]

Airs January 20, 2022:

Quote

When a popular fighter doesn't show up for the biggest bout of the year, Rollins and Velasco are drawn into a complicated web of secrets. McGrath confides in Benson.

 

[Xeliou66]

This episode sounds kind of interesting - seems like a different type of case and I also wonder why McGrath would be confiding anything in Benson, given how antagonistic their relationship has been. Also, since SVU will apparently be off for a month after this, the next new SVU will be on the night the Mothership Season 21 premieres, February 24, so I wonder if they will do anything to set the stage for it.

[dttruman]

51 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I also wonder why McGrath would be confiding anything in Benson, given how antagonistic their relationship has been.

Do you think this will be another one of those scenarios, where Benson's male superior (at the time) or friend comes into the picture and cries about the uncertainties in life or the pressures of his job are just too much and he wants to recommend her for his job or she gives another of her inspirational speeches to lift his spirits?

I don't exactly know what to expect for this episode, especially how a popular fighter misses a big fight and gets SVU involved.

[wknt3]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

This episode sounds kind of interesting - seems like a different type of case and I also wonder why McGrath would be confiding anything in Benson, given how antagonistic their relationship has been.

Because Benson is just that super special and empathetic and understanding - duh! Have you not been paying attention to the show the past decade or so? It's just like the into says. "In the criminal justice system, sexually-based offenses and some other random loosely connected or adjacent crimes are considered especially heinous. In New York City, the dedicated detective who investigates these vicious felonies and understands the victims and everyone else and solves all their problems by whispering and making constipated faces is Olivia Benson. These are her stories."

 

8 minutes ago, dttruman said:

Do you think this will be another one of those scenarios, where Benson's male superior (at the time) or friend comes into the picture and cries about the uncertainties in life or the pressures of his job are just too much and he wants to recommend her for his job or she gives another of her inspirational speeches to lift his spirits?

Maybe. I did say back when he was introduced there are only two ways this can go. Benson wins and he is forced to leave or Benson wins him over and he becomes another acolyte of the Prophet Oliva, blessings and peace be upon her. Although maybe they are going to go both ways and he will be forced to admit how special she is before he is forced out and they find someone even cheaper to replace him at the end of the season?

[CrystalBlue]

31 minutes ago, dttruman said:

Do you think this will be another one of those scenarios, where Benson's male superior (at the time) or friend comes into the picture and cries about the uncertainties in life or the pressures of his job are just too much and he wants to recommend her for his job or she gives another of her inspirational speeches to lift his spirits?

I don't exactly know what to expect for this episode, especially how a popular fighter misses a big fight and gets SVU involved.

Someone tracks down Tommy Baker's whereabout and finds him with an underage girl?  Boy?  Tommy Baker commits sexual assault in a hotel room or somewhere else in the Big Apple and SVU takes on caring for the victim and Carisi goes after the rapist?  We shall see...

[dttruman]

37 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

Someone tracks down Tommy Baker's whereabout and finds him with an underage girl?  Boy?  Tommy Baker commits sexual assault in a hotel room or somewhere else in the Big Apple and SVU takes on caring for the victim and Carisi goes after the rapist?  We shall see...

Now that makes sense for SVU's involvement. What I don't understand is how a fighter's entourage doesn't keep him on schedule for his big bout.

[dttruman]

Already I have questions. When there is a body found that doesn't look obviously dead, are the police suppose to check for a pulse?

McGrath is a real peach, telling the SVU, to rap it up the night it happen

Edited January 21, 2022 by dttruman

[CrystalBlue]

1 hour ago, dttruman said:

Now that makes sense for SVU's involvement. What I don't understand is how a fighter's entourage doesn't keep him on schedule for his big bout.

Or the complicated web of secrecy.  Prostitution ring for those who fight in the ring?  Is that even a thing?

[Xeliou66]

I think this may have been the best episode of the season, it’s not often that I praise the show, but a lot of this felt like classic, golden age SVU, it wasn’t perfect but given what we’ve had this season, it was superior to the usual quality of the current show.

The case took a lot of good twists and turns, and there was good detective work from everyone. I never saw it coming that Phil would be involved, and I didn’t peg the culprit, my money was on Duke the first half of the episode, and I really liked the twist that instead of being a bigoted asshole Duke turned out to be an okay guy who wanted to make things up with Tommy before he died, that surprised me and I liked that. I didn’t see the culprit coming or that Phil was involved.

Each detective got a good role - Fin finally got a large role, Velasco was good, Rollins was good, even Benson was solid most of the time. I liked how everyone got to work together and get to the bottom of it. I did miss Carisi and wish he had been in a couple of scenes, but this was an investigation heavy episode and I liked it, like I said above, much of it felt like classic SVU.

The opening was good, I liked Rollins and Velasco getting ready to watch the fight, and Fin telling Benson that McGrath should get a life. I loved that instead of an opening where everything was spelled out, this time we had no idea who the culprit was, it was a well done opening, something I rarely say about modern day SVU.

Now to the weaker part of the episode - McGrath. St Olivia giving him one of her sermons near the end was just the typical “let’s make Benson look awesome” part of the episode, and it felt weird that McGrath unloaded about all of his personal problems to Benson given that they are always at odds, and then Benson at the end seeming to care about him, I’m not sure what to make of it, McGrath has proven himself to be a turd over and over, forcing Garland out, denying justice to the one rape victim because he only cared about the rapist being convicted of his friend’s daughter’s rape, and generally being a politically obsessed dick, I’m not sure where his story is going but I wonder if he will become the latest convert to the church of St Olivia or if he’ll stay the same. McGrath just isn’t compelling, he’s a one dimensional jerk, and he’ll either get forced out or start worshipping St Olivia, and I just don’t find it compelling. That being said, I would rather see McGrath than Noah or the Rollins family, so the episode having no personal drama on that front was nice.

Overall this was arguably the season’s best episode - a strong case with suspense and good twists and investigation with a nice role for each squad member and no personal drama. I don’t often praise modern day SVU but I liked this one.

 

[Cotypubby]

Wow this episode was actually really good! Felt more like classic SVU with the whole squad getting involved and lots of actual police work, not just Benson by herself saving the day. A case with twists that I did not predict coming from the beginning.

[wknt3]

The Good:
Fin! For the fist time in a quite awhile they actually gave Ice-T some good material. A nice mixture of snark and dramatic moments and he was well used as a connected NYPD veteran and Benson's confidant.
Rollins!!!??? Have they finally figured out how to write her as a functioning adult? With the exception of her spur of the moment trip to the bar to watch the fight there were no real WTF moments. She was professional and non-judgemental. And Giddish continues to have great on-screen chemistry with all of her cast mates. I just hope that they don't make the same mistake they have in the past of taking that natural chemistry and ruining it by making it textual. Let's keep her and Velasco friends who happen to have a lot of scenes in the field together because they are young enough to run. I don't need to see Carisi acting like a jealous middle schooler or Rollins being, well, Rollins.
Velasco. Once again he was well used as the newbie to SVU without being unbelievably naive or stupid. Just a good detective who hasn't seen this all a million times.
The COTW. Just a good old fashioned sexually based offense being investigated by an elite unit of detectives and exploring some of the social issues connected to said crime. The investigation flowed nicely and it did keep me guessing a bit. I figured the PT was involved because he had gotten so much attention and then disappeared, but I wasn't sure what the motive was or who his associate(s) was/were.
All the stuff that wasn't there. No Benoah. No badly edited musical montage opening showing the crime. No Benson speeches saving the day. No detectives as experts in fields other than criminal investigations. With the exception of McGrath and Mariska's overacting there was none of my usual pet peeves.

The Bad:
Benson/Mariska. Can't Benson show some real flaws that are acknowledged as such? No once again she is a saint. And they need to tell Mariska to dial it down. In an otherwise excellently acted episode moments like Benson's big sweeping gesture putting her hand over heart are even more glaring and clunky and disrupt the flow.
McGrath. Yes it's good that they are trying to give him another 1 and 1/2 dimensions so he is at least finally a 2 dimensional jerk boss, but it just never quite gelled. And I am getting a queasy feeling that instead of being a political hack who is a cause of police dysfunction he will turn out to be a victim of toxic masculinity who is redeemed by Benson's holy earth mother wisdom. Yuck!

Overall this was another solid episode that makes me even more cautiously optimistic that we are on the right track. It had that classic SVU feel and if there was nothing really new or fresh, well that's just a function of being on the air for too long and it being time to end with your head held high.

Edited January 21, 2022 by wknt3
fix typos

[Ms Blue Jay]

I'm sorry but I thought that episode sucked.  The perp came out of nowhere.

[gesundheit]

This show is really committed to the idea that the suburbs of Atlanta are some super podunk, backwards towns from the 1930s. Wow.

"Oculus Train Hub" for an Amtrak train to Florida also cracked me up.

[UnikornRainbowz]

It was a good enough episode, but the show seems to be moving into lets virtue signal vs. let's just have a crime and solve it. I dont need lessons from my tv shows, I need a good criminal procedure show, crime, search, arrest.  

[Xeliou66]

16 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

This show is really committed to the idea that the suburbs of Atlanta are some super podunk, backwards towns from the 1930s. Wow.

"Oculus Train Hub" for an Amtrak train to Florida also cracked me up.

Yeah I used to live near Atlanta and it’s blatantly obvious the SVU writers have never been there, as it’s not a podunk, redneck area. There are places in South Georgia a few a hours away from Atlanta that would qualify as very redneck areas IMO, but not Atlanta and it’s suburbs. To be fair, SVU’s writers have never been that good about depicting places outside of NYC, but yeah it’s noticeable they’ve never been to Atlanta. 

[gesundheit]

24 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah I used to live near Atlanta and it’s blatantly obvious the SVU writers have never been there, as it’s not a podunk, redneck area. There are places in South Georgia a few a hours away from Atlanta that would qualify as very redneck areas IMO, but not Atlanta and it’s suburbs. To be fair, SVU’s writers have never been that good about depicting places outside of NYC, but yeah it’s noticeable they’ve never been to Atlanta. 

That's just it, there's a whole state full of places in Georgia that are like what they describe and they just didn't bother! Seems like all they'd need to do is hop on Google maps and find a county that isn't right outside a major city. And yes, you're right, they're bad about that in general -- all of "flyover country" is treated like Little House on the Prairie.

 

Of course the writers room is in L.A., so they get plenty of NYC wrong too! It's all fair game, I guess.

[tennisgurl]

I am actually surprised, I assumed that the fighter would be found unconscious with an underage girl or some other photogenetic young woman for Olivia to save, but they actually went in a more interesting direction. They went so long without male victims that I am still always a bit shocked when they pop up. I thought this episode was actually really good, they did a pretty decent job at telling a compelling story while touching on some social issues, without one overtaking the other. Plus they had a really good guest cast, with the dad probably being the standout for me, and the guy playing Tommy really made me feel for him in his one speech, so much that I wished he had woken up a little earlier so we could get more of him. 

I like that they focused on the investigation for the most part, I admit I didn't see a lot of the twists and turns coming although I really should have. You should always be suspicious of the person who gets interviewed at the start of the episode then seemingly disappears, but there really were a lot of surprises, I was about as surprised as Olivia and Rollins when the wife said that she knew Tommy was gay and was fine with it. Poor Tommy, his boyfriend certainly isn't going to be winning any boyfriend of the years awards, no matter how many crocodile tears he shed. At least he survived and still came out in a big video, and can still have some time with his dad. I was sure it would be his dad who was behind the attack, but I like that they went a different way, he really was just trying to make things better between them before he died, and was one of the few people around Tommy who really didn't seem to have some kind of agenda. 

The character stuff was mostly decent, it was a bit awkward how they tried to force all of this into Rollin's backstory, but she was mostly alright and I like her friendship Velasco. As long as they resist the urge to start some kind of stupid love triangle. Finn finally got a lot to do, which was much appreciated, getting to snark as well as show a lot of competence. I especially loved his long suffering sigh at the uniformed officers saying how they pulled his pants back up, which is a nice thought but terrible for solving crimes. My main gripe is that everything with McGrath and Olivia seemed annoying and pointless. I don't care at all about McGrath, he's been nothing but an embarrassingly one note villain since day one, and I dred the idea that he will be redeemed by Saint Olivia, our lady of perpetual speeches. 

If the writers are going to keep using Georgia as a background for various characters and backstories, they really need to do some basic research on the place. I know that most writers are convinced that every place in the continental US that isn't LA or New York is a vast wasteland of trailer parks, trashy honky tonk bars, creepy churches, and meth labs, but this is pretty ridiculous. A three second Google search is all it takes. Or, god forbid, get out a little bit more? Visit a few of the places you write about? 

Edited January 21, 2022 by tennisgurl

[Broderbits]

I found this episode soooo boring, and I loathe Rollins. Carisi can do much better.

[melon]

Being an MMA fan, I had high hopes for this episode.  However, I simply didn’t enjoy it as much as some other well respected contributors here.  I didn’t find the plot very believable.  On a side note,  I liked it better when there was tension between Benson and her boss. 

[dttruman]

6 hours ago, gesundheit said:

This show is really committed to the idea that the suburbs of Atlanta are some super podunk, backwards towns from the 1930s. Wow.

"Oculus Train Hub" for an Amtrak train to Florida also cracked me up.

 

6 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah I used to live near Atlanta and it’s blatantly obvious the SVU writers have never been there, as it’s not a podunk, redneck area. There are places in South Georgia a few a hours away from Atlanta that would qualify as very redneck areas IMO, but not Atlanta and it’s suburbs. To be fair, SVU’s writers have never been that good about depicting places outside of NYC, but yeah it’s noticeable they’ve never been to Atlanta. 

 

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

If the writers are going to keep using Georgia as a background for various characters and backstories, they really need to do some basic research on the place. I know that most writers are convinced that every place in the continental US that isn't LA or New York is a vast wasteland of trailer parks, trashy honky tonk bars, creepy churches, and meth labs, but this is pretty ridiculous. A three second Google search is all it takes. Or, god forbid, get out a little bit more? Visit a few of the places you write about? 

Three great observations to show that the producers need to spend more money on researchers so as to put characters in a proper perspective and not stereotype

[dttruman]

8 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I'm sorry but I thought that episode sucked.  The perp came out of nowhere.

Were you expecting a typical sexual assault, manhunt, apprehension, and then a trial of some kind? It seemed like they had some suspects (some obvious and some not) and they tried to eliminate the suspects like a Who-done-it.

[wknt3]

7 hours ago, gesundheit said:

This show is really committed to the idea that the suburbs of Atlanta are some super podunk, backwards towns from the 1930s. Wow.

 

7 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah I used to live near Atlanta and it’s blatantly obvious the SVU writers have never been there, as it’s not a podunk, redneck area. There are places in South Georgia a few a hours away from Atlanta that would qualify as very redneck areas IMO, but not Atlanta and it’s suburbs. To be fair, SVU’s writers have never been that good about depicting places outside of NYC, but yeah it’s noticeable they’ve never been to Atlanta. 

As long as we're being fair to the writers let's not forget that what we see of Atlanta on SVU is the people who have a connection to Rollins. I mean it would be pretty much straining credulity even more than usual if that family came from anywhere other than the "Staten Island" of the Atlanta metro...

[MarylandGirl]

I found the first half of this episode interesting, but kinda zoned out for the second half. So maybe my zoning out meant I didn't fully understand what was going on with the money aspect of it? The wife was giving Ricky money--and then Tommy was upset about it? Is that what was going on? So Ricky wanted to kill him so he could keep getting money, then Tommy's boyfriend just happened to be there and helped cover it up?

I did like both Fin and Rollins in this. Benson's hand over her heart was so eyeroll-worthy...

[Xeliou66]

32 minutes ago, MarylandGirl said:

I found the first half of this episode interesting, but kinda zoned out for the second half. So maybe my zoning out meant I didn't fully understand what was going on with the money aspect of it? The wife was giving Ricky money--and then Tommy was upset about it? Is that what was going on? So Ricky wanted to kill him so he could keep getting money, then Tommy's boyfriend just happened to be there and helped cover it up?

I did like both Fin and Rollins in this. Benson's hand over her heart was so eyeroll-worthy...

Phil, Tommy’s boyfriend, was mad that Tommy wasn’t going to leave Chrissy and move in with him, and so he started using Tommy to get money as well, and Tommy found out about it and about Ricky using him, and wanted to confront them both,  Phil and Tommy had a confrontation in the basement of the building when Ricky showed up and attacked Tommy and I think Phil was scared and left and that’s when Ricky staged everything. That’s basically what happened. A bit complex but I followed it. I thought it was a good case with a good investigation, a lot of it felt like classic SVU. Benson did drag it down some though, with her usual lecture to McGrath and then her facial expressions at the end, overboard as always.

[MarylandGirl]

21 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Phil, Tommy’s boyfriend, was mad that Tommy wasn’t going to leave Chrissy and move in with him, and so he started using Tommy to get money as well, and Tommy found out about it and about Ricky using him, and wanted to confront them both,  Phil and Tommy had a confrontation in the basement of the building when Ricky showed up and attacked Tommy and I think Phil was scared and left and that’s when Ricky staged everything. That’s basically what happened. A bit complex but I followed it. I thought it was a good case with a good investigation, a lot of it felt like classic SVU. Benson did drag it down some though, with her usual lecture to McGrath and then her facial expressions at the end, overboard as always.

Thank you! I knew I must have missed something in there, as it didn't make sense to me.

[TM101]

I guess it’s obvious that there’s a future episode involving McGrath facing serious domestic allegations and Benson in the middle of it? 

[Wizardpatch]

Okay so this guy is gay, is happy to be openly gay in public etc., but he is going to stay married to his wife because he really appreciates her or something? Wouldn't this just force the both of them to treat their marriage like an even bigger absurdity than it already was? Why not just divorce and stay friends?

[Cotypubby]

13 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Phil, Tommy’s boyfriend, was mad that Tommy wasn’t going to leave Chrissy and move in with him, and so he started using Tommy to get money as well, and Tommy found out about it and about Ricky using him, and wanted to confront them both,  Phil and Tommy had a confrontation in the basement of the building when Ricky showed up and attacked Tommy and I think Phil was scared and left and that’s when Ricky staged everything. That’s basically what happened. A bit complex but I followed it. I thought it was a good case with a good investigation, a lot of it felt like classic SVU. Benson did drag it down some though, with her usual lecture to McGrath and then her facial expressions at the end, overboard as always.

What I was unsure about was that Ricky and Phil thought Tommy had been killed by the blow to the head? And then Ricky raped him to stage an assault? After he thought he was dead!?

[dttruman]

3 hours ago, TM101 said:

I guess it’s obvious that there’s a future episode involving McGrath facing serious domestic allegations and Benson in the middle of it? 

Will it be something like Dodd's exit where after his son's untimely death, he asks for a transfer to another post and then recommends a promotion for Benson to Captain? Will McGrath recommend Benson for his job, when he conveniently leaves?

[dttruman]

2 hours ago, Wizardpatch said:

Okay so this guy is gay, is happy to be openly gay in public etc., but he is going to stay married to his wife because he really appreciates her or something? Wouldn't this just force the both of them to treat their marriage like an even bigger absurdity than it already was? Why not just divorce and stay friends?

 

2 hours ago, Wizardpatch said:

Okay so this guy is gay, is happy to be openly gay in public etc., but he is going to stay married to his wife because he really appreciates her or something? Wouldn't this just force the both of them to treat their marriage like an even bigger absurdity than it already was? Why not just divorce and stay friends?

Sounds like another run of the mill Hollywood marriage.

Edited January 22, 2022 by dttruman

[gesundheit]

I do love how much time these detectives have to just hang out at work watching TV.

 

My favorite thing about the episode, though, was Finn being the one who mocked everyone else's interest in the fight.

[Iguessnot]

In an earlier scene when McGrath was talking to the SVU staff, he had so much red eyeliner on that I thought the detectives were going to wonder if he was sick. He looked like the early stages of ebola. And then a scene or two later, Rollins is interviewing the dad, and that same red eyeliner is used. I really thought McGrath and the dad were involved in the assault. 

Obviously that wasn't the case but anyone else notice the over zealous use of the red eyeliner?

[dttruman]

12 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

In an earlier scene when McGrath was talking to the SVU staff, he had so much red eyeliner on that I thought the detectives were going to wonder if he was sick. He looked like the early stages of ebola. And then a scene or two later, Rollins is interviewing the dad, and that same red eyeliner is used. I really thought McGrath and the dad were involved in the assault. 

Obviously that wasn't the case but anyone else notice the over zealous use of the red eyeliner?

Nope, you got me

[Iguessnot]

1 hour ago, dttruman said:

Nope, you got me

Maybe it was my tv. The promoter also had very bad scarring on his cheek. 

[FozzyBear]

On 1/21/2022 at 1:37 PM, Broderbits said:

I found this episode soooo boring, and I loathe Rollins. Carisi can do much better.

Are they setting up a love triangle with Rollins, Carisi, and Velasco? It really seemed like Rollins and Velasco were on a date at the beginning of the episode.

[dttruman]

4 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

Maybe it was my tv. The promoter also had very bad scarring on his cheek. 

I'm not saying you're wrong at all. I just wasn't paying that much attention to the eyes. So it's probably my blunder.

[Sake614]

On 1/21/2022 at 1:06 PM, gesundheit said:

"Oculus Train Hub" for an Amtrak train to Florida also cracked me up.

OMG! I saw that and said, ‘wait, what? When did Amtrak start making stops in the World Trade Center?’

then I walked through Penn Station, which currently looks like a war zone. And figured they didn’t want to film there. It was still ridiculous.