The Marvels (2023)

[baldryanr]

7 hours ago, Dani said:

The final trailer was also released and I would recommend avoiding it and social media if you don’t want spoilers. They are really trying to build hype.

A lot of it can be summed up as follows: you really liked Endgame, right?  Wasn't that awesome?  Well, our lead was in that movie and is just as cool as the dearly departed Avengers!  Oh, and if you thought this was going to be a fun team up then you're wrong, this is a super serious movie with high stakes.  Don't worry though, there's a sprinkling of that MCU humor (thanks Fury!).

[Spartan Girl]

You know if it wasn’t for the studios being complete dicks, we would have had Brie, Teyonah, and Iman plugging the hell out of this with fun appearances that we wouldn’t need the MCU trying to milk Endgame, but noooooooooo….

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

You know if it wasn’t for the studios being complete dicks, we would have had Brie, Teyonah, and Iman plugging the hell out of this with fun appearances that we wouldn’t need the MCU trying to milk Endgame, but noooooooooo….

Yep. Frustrating to know there are so many factors involved in the movie’s success or failure, most of which have nothing to do with the characters, but if it fails there will only be one narrative. And the are marketing it really poorly. 

[Perfect Xero]

Unless there's a big twist that they've kept under wraps, it's an ... odd choice to devote so much of the final trailer to two characters who aren't in the movie and have only minimal connection to Carol.

[tv echo]

Mostly positive...

‘The Marvels’: First Reactions After the Premiere
BY AARON COUCH   NOVEMBER 7, 2023
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/the-marvels-first-reactions-1235545038/ 

‘The Marvels’ First Reactions Praise ‘Short and Sweet,’ ‘Astonishingly Wacky’ Film: ‘Exactly What a Comic Book Movie Should Be’
By Zack Sharf, Michaela Zee   Nov 7, 2023
https://variety.com/2023/film/news/the-marvels-first-reactions-brie-larson-mcu-1235781751/ 

First reactions to The Marvels roll in amid low box office projections
Jacob Stolworthy   November 8, 2023
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/the-marvels-review-captain-marvel-b2443638.html 

The Marvels first reactions call the film "an MCU win" – with a shocking post-credits scene
By Lauren Milici Contributions from Molly Edwards   Nov. 8, 2023
https://www.gamesradar.com/the-marvels-brie-larson-first-reactions/ 

THE MARVELS: How Many Post-Credits Scenes Does The Movie Have? Here's Your Spoiler-Free Answer!
By Josh Wilding    Nov 8, 2023
https://comicbookmovie.com/captain-marvel/the-marvels/the-marvels-how-many-post-credits-scenes-does-the-movie-have-heres-your-spoiler-free-answer-a207684#gs.055ns3 

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by tv echo

[Raja]

5 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

Unless there's a big twist that they've kept under wraps, it's an ... odd choice to devote so much of the final trailer to two characters who aren't in the movie and have only minimal connection to Carol.

The greater MCU was always the force multiplier for these movies.  However relying on two Disney+ TV characters without the built in normie fan base that the Avengers bring proved to be not enough of a draw.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

Unless there's a big twist that they've kept under wraps, it's an ... odd choice to devote so much of the final trailer to two characters who aren't in the movie and have only minimal connection to Carol.

I’ve thought all along that Marvel has no clue how to market this movie (or any of their movies) at a time when their reputation is tanking. And little understanding of what made the first movie successful.

 

This is the best thing they have done so far. Since the human cast can’t promote the film, they should have leaned harder into viral marketing with the cats.

I am going to be pissed if the studios finally end the strike just too late to help the movie or for the cast to get to celebrate.

[Guest]

And the strike will end hours before the start of Thursday previews. What a waste. It really sucks that Iman and Teyonah missed out on their first big premiere. 

[Spartan Girl]

42 minutes ago, Dani said:

And the strike will end hours before the start of Thursday previews. What a waste. It really sucks that Iman and Teyonah missed out on their first big premiere. 

I hope there will be others, but yeah, I’m pissed that a fair deal couldn’t be made sooner.

[Perfect Xero]

13 hours ago, Raja said:

The greater MCU was always the force multiplier for these movies.  However relying on two Disney+ TV characters without the built in normie fan base that the Avengers bring proved to be not enough of a draw.

I do wonder is the movie would be projecting any better if they'd just called in Captain Marvel 2 and focused the marketing on Carol and Fury and Monica being Carol's niece all grown up, the last movie did make a billion dollars even if it was probably boosted by being between Infinity War and Endgame.

[dkb]

Haven't caught up on this thread so don't know what the general feeling on here is... but I really really enjoyed it. Although I loved the first Captain Marvel, so maybe I'm just a Captain Marvel stan like Kamala. 

 

Kamala is hands down my favorite character in the MCU right now.

Spoiler

Did not realize her family would be featured as much as they were, but I love them so much!

Kinda reminded me of the first couple of movies in the MCU in a way. 

P.S.: I wish movies just included subtitles as standard these days. Sometimes the background stuff drowns out the actual dialogue, and I couldn't hear what characters were saying.

Edited November 10, 2023 by dkb
P.S

[Raja]

Ms. Marvel was the only Disney+ series that is in the I want to rewatch it someday besides Andor (Star Wars). and The Marvels also hits my would buy it on DVD for re-watching tier of MCU shows.

While some of the jokes ran toward the Thor Love and Thunder excess I came out feeling much better than I did in Ant-Man and the Wasp Quantomania.  I wonder why Kamala's sister in law wasn't along for the ride? The actress couldn't have been that much of an extra cost.

The last scene plays much like the and mid or end credits scene and there is only a mid credits scene. Maybe it is a change to make streaming easier for Disney down the line.

[thuganomics85]

I guess I need to just give up and accept that I am not on the same wavelength as critics and the majority of the internet when it comes to Marvel films.  Because while there were definitely some flaws here, this wasn't anywhere near the vicinity of being one of the worst MCU films ever.   Middle of the road at its worst arguably, but I think I still came out enjoying it more than half of the series.

Granted, it was definitely helped by its three leads.  Despite not sharing the screen before, I thought Brie Larson, Teyonah Parris, and Iman Vellani had natural chemistry with one another and I loved the interactions, rapport, and banter between Carol, Monica, and Kamala.  Obviously loved all of the stuff with Kamala fangirling over Carol and Carol interacting with someone who clearly thinks the world of her, but i also liked the insights between Carol and Monica, and the history there: especially Monica understandably upset over feeling like Carol abandoned her years ago.  And while not as significant, I even dug the stuff between Monica and Kamala, where it felt like the former almost became a older, protective sister to the latter.  Not just during all the dangerous parts, but knowing that Kamala has put Carol on a pedestal, and not wanting Kamala to be crestfallen if Carol doesn't live up to the image (because, in the end, Carol is human still.)  This alone helped carry the film through any questionable writing moments.

Looking at them individually, I definitely think Iman was the standout of not just the film, but I think she really could end up being one of the best casting decisions out of the entire MCU.  She just lights up the screen whenever she shows up and is charismatic on almost every level.  Whatever shakiness the franchise has been showing lately, I think she has been a shining light and gives me hope that the potential is there to get back to it.  Teyonah was right behind her and I think Monica can be a standout as well in her hands (kind of annoyed that she is mainly used as a meme by parts of the internet for admittedly the clunkiest/worst line from Wandavision.)  As for Brie, I've already accepted that some will never change their minds about her and think she is the worst actress of all time, but whatever.  I think she's great: her facial reactions were cracking me up and I think she has eased into Carol's confidence and snark, while still showing that there are a lot of emotions and trauma under all of it.

I swear, Samuel L. Jackson seemed 100 times more lively here than he did during the actual series he was starring in.  He just seemed to be enjoying himself way more this go around.  Great to see this Nick Fury again!

Loved seeing the Khan family again: only hampered over hearing that there have beens some very, very, very unpleasant accusations leveled at the actor playing Yusef recently.  But I love the dynamics and how important they are to Kamala, so hopefully a recast will happen going forward, instead of them being phased or written out.

I'm sure some will absolutely despise the musical planet where everyone communicate by singing Disney-style songs, but I kind of loved it.  Same with Nick using Goose and the Flerken kittens to "transport" people off of the space station.  As I mentioned elsewhere, whatever flaws post-Endgame MCU has, I do kind of love that they are going a bit nuts with things.  Nothing is off the table!

Thought they did a decent job introducing both Kamala and Monica for anyone who didn't watch their respected shows.  The opening drawling was spot-on for Kamala.  And I loved everyone's reaction to Monica's causal "Oh, I got my powers thanks to a witch hex when trying to save a town that was taken over."  First, it was initial shock, followed quickly by "Well, I guess that checks.  Not the oddest origin story I've heard!"

That said, I 100% agree with the complaints about Dar-Benn.  Might be the dullest villain since the one from Dark World (like I'm going to bother looking his name up again.)  I'm starting to wonder if it's just a Kree issue, because it seems like the Krees never really work for me.  Won't put too much blame on Zawe Ashton, but this seemed like an odd role to give to a relative newcomer and hope they shine with it.  This seemed like something tailor-made for a veteran looking for an easy paycheck and just letting them dine on the scenery.

My other big complaint was I do wish they explored more over how Carol's decision to destroy the Supreme Intelligence ended up doing harm to the planet and other unintended consequences.  Seemed to zip through that too quickly.  I wonder if some stuff got cut out there.

Enjoyed the cameo from Valkyrie and, of course, the end where Kamala is recruiting none other than Kate Bishop!  I can't wait for this to happen.  And while I know she's suppose to be in the Thunderbolt film, I really, really hope Yelena ends up joining them because I can only imagine what her reaction would be opposite of Kamala!

So, the mid-credit scene basically reveals that Monica is now in the X-Men universe!  With a CGI version of Hank "Beast" McCoy, but still voiced by Kelsey Grammer.  Also, Maria is still alive in this universe because everyone knows that you can't waste a perfectly good Lashana Lynch for just one film!

So, yeah, I've accepted that this film is likely going to underperform; possibly even be the biggest bomb of the MCU; and it's failure will no doubt be celebrated by certain parts of the net (the same ones no doubt still recovering from the ass-kicking Barbie gave them.)  And I will acknowledge there are legit issues here and it won't go down as the best the MCU has to offer.  But I still think this might go down as one of the films that I will appreciate more than others and I think is much better than what the critics are saying.  I'm usually not one for excuses, but I think it just came out during the perfect storm of not being able to advertise as much due to the strike and the MCU itself just being in the middle of a major slump.  But I hope this isn't the last we see of Brie, Teyonah, Iman, and their characters, because for whatever issues the film had, these three showed themselves to be worthy members of the MCU.  Hopefully the studio knows this and won't let whatever happens change this. 

Until then, I'm just going to stand against the horde of critics and certain sections of the fanbase and say that this film is actually really good on a lot of levels.  It may end in my defeat but I will go down swinging!

[tv echo]

The Marvels | The Return of Captain Rambeau | In Theaters Tonight
Marvel Entertainment   Nov 9, 2023

The Marvels | The Return of Ms. Marvel | In Theaters Tonight
Marvel Entertainment   Nov 9, 2023

The Marvels Is a Fun Time, Especially for Fans of TV’s Ms. Marvel (Review)
BY MATT WEBB MITOVICH   NOVEMBER 8, 2023
https://tvline.com/reviews/the-marvels-captain-marvel-movie-sequel-wandavision-ms-marvel-1235076988/ 

Quote

But what I do feel compelled to say, coming out of a Tuesday screening of the Captain Marvel sequel, is that if you were a fan of Disney+’s charming Ms. Marvel series, The Marvels will absolutely have you grinning ear to ear.
*  *  *
But as the tight-n-bright, 105-minute movie got unspooling, I found myself smiling, and even bursting with laughter at points, because The Marvels is the most wall-to-wall fun Marvel movie or series since Spider-Man: No Way Home. (This is where I remind you that Guardians 3 was heavy, folks.)

Edited November 10, 2023 by tv echo

[AimingforYoko]

I was going to quote thuganomic's post, but it would take up too much space, so instead I'll just say, "Ditto."

Iman Vellani just makes me grin from ear to ear. She'll be the best recruiter for Young Avengers ever. Who could say no to her?

So which Charles do we get, I wonder?

 

 

[Raja]

20 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Until then, I'm just going to stand against the horde of critics and certain sections of the fanbase and say that this film is actually really good on a lot of levels.  It may end in my defeat but I will go down swinging!

I think they just made up their minds that the MCU and perhaps the superhero genre as a whole is on a downswing and can't  see a partial rebound. "The MESSAGE" reviewer even said it didn't have those themes he normally complains about but at this point I don't think he can admit maybe this was just better than Ant-Man and the Wasp 3 or Thor 4 as that would cut the theme his corner of nerdom has been escalating in their complaints of for the past 3 years.

8 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

So which Charles do we get, I wonder?

The first theory video I have seen is guessing  X-Men:  Days of Future Past ending with an explanation for Binary being there. That would mean the original and the classic team of X-Men would be fully mature and the best of the younger generation available to punch into the MCU story with Young Avengers, assuming no reboot.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Raja

[Raja]

7 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

Iman Vellani just makes me grin from ear to ear. She'll be the best recruiter for Young Avengers ever. Who could say no to her?

I wonder did she get the pitch from Tony Stark, being one to talk and the documentary Peter Parker could have seen on the flight to Europe or Scott Lang and his book.

[dkb]

Haven't seen most of the  X-Men movies, so had a question. This beast is from the Ian McKellen x-men?

[Morrigan2575]

10 minutes ago, dkb said:

Haven't seen most of the  X-Men movies, so had a question. This beast is from the Ian McKellen x-men?

Yes, he was in X3 and Days of Future Past, the Stewart/McKellen X-Men series (DoFP featured both OG and New cast).

X-Men are finally showing up, MCU has turned to shit IMO and, now I'm worried they'll fuck up X-Men more than FOX did. What a sad state of affairs. ☹️

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Morrigan2575

[Raja]

8 minutes ago, dkb said:

Haven't seen most of the  X-Men movies, so had a question. This beast is from the Ian McKellen x-men?

Yes, but they did mix the timelines more than a bit, near Loki  Disney+ levels,  but he was in the older movies, and in the newer ones at the end of the timeline reset as the then elder X-Men were the staff for Xavier's school.

[MadyGirl1987]

Between this Guardians 3 and Loki season 2, I feel like Marvel is getting back on track, even if I feel like recent Marvel projects aren’t as bad as others have said.

I agree that Iman Velanni was the best part of the show. I must be a sucker for young superheroes because Spidey is my all time favorite superhero, and Ms Marvel is my favorite of the newer introductions to the MCU. She does well as a teen thrown into crazy circumstances and goes well portraying youthful exuberance and inexperience along with Kamala's fangirlish side, all of which could easily be overdone and come across as tiresome in the wrong hands.

This was the most I’ve liked Bre Larson as Captain Marvel. I feel like Larson needs the right scene partners to really do her best, as her best scenes in the first movie was with Fury and the Rambeaus, and her best scenes here were with the other 2 Marvels.

I was cracking up during the baby Fluerkin scenes. Playing “Memory” from Cats was an inspired choice.

All in all, the best superhero movie I’ve seen all year, and while I think it’s optimistic to think this will stop critics and internet haters from saying Marvel or superhero movies in general are dying, to me, at least, this is evidence that reports of their deaths are highly exaggerated.

[arc]

I liked it. Call it an 8/10. Something made a bunch of lines feel forced... Probably a victim of severe cutting for time?

As with the first Captain Marvel movie, I'm both extremely amused and disappointed with the toothlessness of the central metaphor for imperialism and colonialism. There was so much potential in the first movie about a displaced population, refugees from Kree wars of conquest. And here, how very on the nose that a colonial power now faces self inflicted ecological catastrophe and proposes to fix it by stealing resources. Speaking of which, they fixed the hole in reality that Dar-Benn caused, and Carol fixed Gala's sun and presumably Earth's as well, but what about the stolen water and air? Was the Skrull refugee planet fully destroyed? Are they being hosted by the Asgardians in exile on Earth?

I did like the leads a lot. And the joyful cheesiness of Kamala stealing Nick Fury's recruiting bit. And it was nice to see Kate Bishop again. But, and I realize Marvel has had its pedal to the metal debuting new series and movies, it still feels like there's a legit chance it could be another five years before the studio actually launches a Young Avengers/Champions film.

[Raja]

13 minutes ago, arc said:

Speaking of which, they fixed the hole in reality that Dar-Benn caused, and Carol fixed Gala's sun and presumably Earth's as well, but what about the stolen water and air? Was the Skrull refugee planet fully destroyed? Are they being hosted by the Asgardians in exile on Earth?

I don't think Earth's sun was able to be stolen as the Marvel's stopped that before the Kree could finish.  The other two planets where the peace talks were to take place and the husband's twice as much water as we have world world I assume are gone.

As for the Skrulls we are getting into Secret Invasion territory and things don't fit well all connected wise. Not like in Wandavision and Dr, Strange. In this case if you throw out Disney+  you would only be missing the origin of powers for two Marvels. As for Secret Invasion's space station/Fury I don't know how they fit in with this at all. And where Earth was left at the end of that makes you wonder if the Asgard themselves  are already fighting a slice  humans when King Valkyrie decided to bring in a few more ships with Skrulls. 

I could even pick at nits that didn't fit the Ms. Marvel show when looking at how the Khan's reacted to hearing "aunt Carol" with a joke about families when in their own show we had the non family "illumin-aunties" and every man of the next generation was uncle.

[arc]

12 minutes ago, Raja said:

don't think Earth's sun was able to be stolen as the Marvel's stopped that before the Kree could finish. 

Oh, indeed, but it dimmed visibly. (I mean if you really want to get into the science of it, siphoning off the surface of the sun just gets you some hot plasma; the fusion happens much deeper inside and at much hotter temperatures.)

16 minutes ago, Raja said:

The other two planets where the peace talks were to take place and the husband's twice as much water as we have world world I assume are gone.

The peace talks planet was also where the Skrulls set up their refugee camp. As the Skrull leader said, they had nowhere else to go. It certainly looked destroyed. But who knows, maybe Hala didn't need all of the water world's water.

18 minutes ago, Raja said:

I could even pick at nits that didn't fit the Ms. Marvel show when looking at how the Khan's reacted to hearing "aunt Carol" with a joke about families when in their own show we had the non family "illumin-aunties" and every man of the next generation was uncle.

I dunno how Pakistanis do it, but in the slice of Chinese-Canadian culture I know, we almost never say "aunt" in English. We say "auntie" in English all the time, for non-family aunties. But somehow "aunt" would be reserved for family relations. (But a brief websearch suggests this distinction is common usage in many cultures and countries.)

[shantown]

Wow, that movie FLEW (no pun intended). I was a little lost at times, possibly because I haven't watched most Marvel things lately and possibly because it seemed like they cut a lot to keep things moving quickly. I appreciated the way Carol, Monica, and Kamala all played off each other - some complicated emotions there(ditto everything @thuganomics85 said about their interpersonal relationships). I didn't watch the show Ms. Marvel but I appreciated the character here. Something about the mix of excitement, fear, joy, and confusion of a character joining the "super" world. It feels like every other new character that's come in, especially the younger ones, have just taken to the craziness way too quickly and easily. I liked that while Kamala was all in on the team-up she was still in over her head a little. ("Ooh, I saw some star maps!", "Okay, to where?, "... The... stars?")
 

On 11/9/2023 at 10:39 PM, thuganomics85 said:

My other big complaint was I do wish they explored more over how Carol's decision to destroy the Supreme Intelligence ended up doing harm to the planet and other unintended consequences.  Seemed to zip through that too quickly.  I wonder if some stuff got cut out there.

Yeah, for that being the main villain's motivation and the explanation for where Carol has been - it really was glossed over rather quickly, and near the end of the movie. Would have liked to see this explored/explained more. Thought I am happy we got into the action, the body-swapping, and the team-up sooner. It was nice to see a team actually training and practicing together and learning each other's powers. Everything always gelled together so quickly out of nowhere before.
 

On 11/9/2023 at 10:03 PM, Raja said:

The last scene plays much like the and mid or end credits scene and there is only a mid credits scene. Maybe it is a change to make streaming easier for Disney down the line.

Yes, this! As much as I loved to see Kate Bishop, it felt weirdly tacked on in the movie itself. Kate's got a point though... she's 23. A little old to be one of the "kid-vengers."

Overall I liked it! I'm glad that (minus the mid-credits scene) we weren't dealing with the multiverse at all, I'm already pretty over that concept. It had humor, heart, and fun fight scenes. And good music!

[Raja]

1 hour ago, shantown said:

Yes, this! As much as I loved to see Kate Bishop, it felt weirdly tacked on in the movie itself. Kate's got a point though... she's 23. A little old to be one of the "kid-vengers

Well considering the original Avengers a middle-aged playboy, a "blipped" WWII veteran, a PhD who messed up and hulked himself, a practically immortal Asgardian and two veteran S.H.I.E.L.D.  agents then a new college graduate might just be closer to a teenaged new high school graduate than a soldier at retirement age or a veteran of three years of fighting Hydra.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Raja

[baldryanr]

4 minutes ago, Raja said:

Well considering the original Avengers a middle-aged playboy, a "blipped" WWII veteran, a PhD who messed up and hulked himself, a practically immortal Asgardian and two veteran S.H.I.E.L.D.  agents then a new college graduate might just be closer to a teenaged new high school graduate than a soldier at retirement age or a veteran of three years of fighting Hydra.

To cross brands for a moment, she's really trying to set up the MCU equivalent to the Titans.  There are still plenty of adults around (Sam, Bucky, Strange, Rhodes, Bruce, Scott, etc.) to go do some Avenging without worrying about cutting class or finding that first job.

[Lantern7]

Good movie. I don't have D+, so I'm lost on some things . . . like how Kamala knows about Carol in the first place. Not like there were cameras present during Carol's big entrance in Endgame, right?

I'm guessing that Marvel wants to set up a Champions wing. Of course Kamala would go into recruiting. She's a certified superhero stan and she's way too cute to dismiss outright.

I'm confused by the last scene. Who is Monica's mom supposed to be? I recognize the outfit, but I can't place it. I'm thinking that was a shape-shifter intended to ease Monica into the whole "trapped in another reality" deal.

ETA: What is the next MCU movie? Or will we be getting a break from those?

Edited November 12, 2023 by Lantern7

[arc]

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

Good movie. I don't have D+, so I'm lost on some things . . . like how Kamala knows about Carol in the first place. Not like there were cameras present during Carol's big entrance in Endgame, right?

Well, diehard MCU fans know Scott Lang wrote a book (which Disney actually made into a real thing). But also, if Carol is famous all over the universe, she's probably famous on Earth. The Ms Marvel show actually had an "AvengerCon" where it was heavily implied the whole world knows a lot about the events of Infinity War and Endgame.

Actually, I gotta say, Kamala was also created in the comics as a fan of Carol Danvers' Captain Marvel, but I don't think in the comics Captain Marvel dropped an enormous capital ship on New Jersey, which I would think might have sapped some of her approval rating, at least in NJ.

This reminds me of a science nitpick I had. As Tarnax is getting destroyed, Carol smashes some falling concrete. This is not a great way to save people underneath from getting crushed! A block of concrete that large is many tons. Even if she smashed it so hard it completely turned to dust, you know how much all that dust weighs in aggregate? The same amount of tons! To be fair, it probably spreads out a little more and slows down more thanks to atmospheric drag, but probably not enough to not flatten the people underneath. (Then again, I guess Skrulls are superhuman, with enhanced durability plus the ability to shapeshift, possibly into crush-resistant forms?) Anyways, this is a common occurrence in superhero comics and every writer seems to think a big falling thing getting smashed just disappears like videogame detritus.

My other science nitpick is treating interstellar distances -- or intergalactic!!! -- as so meaningless that everything more or less happens at the same time. Hell, Carol has a live audio call with Fury from many light years away. Again, I know this happens a lot in genre fiction and in the MCU.

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

ETA: What is the next MCU movie? Or will we be getting a break from those?

It was just announced that Disney would be hitting a major pause button on most of their MCU output. Deadpool is now the only MCU movie scheduled for 2024; many others have moved to 2025.

[Raja]

4 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Good movie. I don't have D+, so I'm lost on some things . . . like how Kamala knows about Carol in the first place. Not like there were cameras present during Carol's big entrance in Endgame, right?

While the Russo's did not give us scenes of normal people, cops and soldiers around the Battle of Earth like Wheedon did at the Battle of New York scenes you did have a lot of high Stark tech suits and Wakandan warplanes on the scene each potentially carrying recording gear.  And before we saw Scott Lang's memiors and tours in Ant-Man and the Wasp 3  when Peter Parker flew to Europe one of those Easter eggs picked up was a menu of many documentaries on the planes TV screen of the  second biggest event galactic after the big bang. About the only secrets in the MCU are that Peter Parker is behind the mask, although he also outed himself during that battle. And that Fury rose in the ranks because he had Skrull super-spies on his side. Given She-Hulk the world knows all about other extraterrestrials being around now.

5 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I'm guessing that Marvel wants to set up a Champions wing. Of course Kamala would go into recruiting. She's a certified superhero stan and she's way too cute to dismiss outright.

Since Netflix burned the Defenders team name but the others remain in play. Although all indications point to Kamala and Kate Bishop being Young Avengers and if they don't reboot the end of Thor 4 would point to a Champions character.

5 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I'm confused by the last scene. Who is Monica's mom supposed to be? I recognize the outfit, but I can't place it. I'm thinking that was a shape-shifter intended to ease Monica into the whole "trapped in another reality" deal.

It seems that Maria Rambeau was the Captain Marvel "variant" there as she was also in Dr Strange and one of the variations of costumes/names she (Ms then Captain Marvel) went through in the source comics was as Binary being introduced in the X-Men comics when they went interstellar.  While Monica seemed destined for Photon being forced upon her as Kamala was throwing out names like US naval aviators get joke call signs they really didn't want  placed on them in real life and not the cool call signs of the Top Gun movies

 

One thing I didn't like was during the memory sharing scene was the use of "blip" by Carol and Maria. As a cute name after everybody returned I reluctantly accept from kids who returned 5 years behind some of their ex peers on Spiderman. As the term that came up during the 5 years of missing half of the people for folks to call it a blip in casual conversation about a daughter who vanished into ashes  would be beyond insensitive.

 

 

[baldryanr]

3 hours ago, arc said:

It was just announced that Disney would be hitting a major pause button on most of their MCU output. Deadpool is now the only MCU movie scheduled for 2024; many others have moved to 2025.

That's probably for the best.  As expected, the movie is headed for a very lousy opening weekend by MCU standards, with the potential for being the worst domestic opening of all the movies - it's not a good sign if the sequel to a blockbuster that made over a billion dollars worldwide ($400 million domestic) gets blown away by the openings of Five Nights at Freddy's and Taylor Swift.

Does this mean the movie sucks?  Of course not, but if you can just wait a couple of months for it to come out on D+, then why see it in the theaters?  It's not like the old days when you have to watch on a small CRT TV hooked up to a VCR, home entertainment systems are pretty good these days. 

[Sakura12]

I enjoyed this movie. The people that didn't already made up there minds about the movie when it was announced so they were never going to like it. This, Spider-man and Guardians 3 were the best movies in the past few years in the MCU.

It was a fun ride with great characters. Did it have flaws, yes. Just like every other movie. 

Iman was the stand out like I knew she would be. Carol had no idea what to do with a fangirl or even that she had one.

I think the Khan's were more confused that Monica and Carol looked the same age as well. I don't know if everyone knows that Carol is older then she looks. Auntie is usually for older friends of the family. Not usually ones that are the same age. They don't know that Carol is close to 60 years old. 

Did she give Maria's house to the Khan's or is she living on Earth now? She is going to need a big place for all of Goose's baby Flerkins. 

I'm glad Monica and Carol finally got to talk. I wish there was more. It did seem like a lot got cut to move the story along. 

Although I hope Carol went back to her husband's planet and helped them get their water back. It also kind of looked like Brie and Tessa were trying to imply that Valkrye and Carol may have a thing going on. But they couldn't add more hate to this movie. 

They said Kamela's a mutant so we have mutants on our universe. But now we have the Fox ones in another universe. And Maria is Binary and an X-men. 

[Raja]

3 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Did she give Maria's house to the Khan's or is she living on Earth now? She is going to need a big place for all of Goose's baby Flerkins.

As possible the only friends beyond Fury I think the Khan's were just helping Carol move from the spaceship to the caretaker of the Rameau estate.  Ms Marvel being as strongly identified with New Jersey as Peter Parker is to New York they don't just up and move, even if mom is waiting on her son to give her grandchildren and they will need more space..

3 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I enjoyed this movie. The people that didn't already made up there minds about the movie when it was announced so they were never going to like it. This, Spider-man and Guardians 3 were the best movies in the past few years in the MCU.

I can understand not liking a specific movie, it is the "this is the worst movie of the MCU run" that has me agreeing you that the critics need it to be the worst for their anti Disney narrative that has been escalating. I would add the Halloween and Christmas specials on Disney+ as part of the good list.

[anna0852]

Just saw it and loved it
 

Question: at the very end, when Kamala is talking to Kate, she references someone having a daughter. And I missed that person’s name. Did anyone catch it?

[Raja]

4 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

Just saw it and loved it
 

Question: at the very end, when Kamala is talking to Kate, she references someone having a daughter. And I missed that person’s name. Did anyone catch it?

Scott Lang (Ant-Man) referencing Cassie.

[anna0852]

39 minutes ago, Raja said:

Scott Lang (Ant-Man) referencing Cassie.

Thank you!

[Sakura12]

Kamala went to get the money first like Fury did with Tony. I assume since Kate's mom in jail she gets access to the family fortune. I know Yelena's in the Thunderbolts but I want her and Kate to hang out again.

Who do we have for the young Avengers? Kamala, Kate and Cassie. I guess Hulk's son, and Iron heart. Wanda's twins are supposed to be in it. I guess it depends on if they exist. 

[Raja]

35 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Kamala went to get the money first like Fury did with Tony. I assume since Kate's mom in jail she gets access to the family fortune.

Or she's back home in Jersey City and since she can't fly, only run on light like the bird flies, and rides her bike and takes mass transit then Kate Bishop  was the  easiest to get to. 

[Anduin]

I finally saw it! If I'd been more organised, I could have gone Friday. But Monday it was. Anyway, good fun. I'm looking forward to seeing this again at home. I may have more to say later.

[arc]

6 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Who do we have for the young Avengers? Kamala, Kate and Cassie. I guess Hulk's son, and Iron heart. Wanda's twins are supposed to be in it. I guess it depends on if they exist. 

And an outside chance they add Miles Morales if the MCU kinda merges Young Avengers with Champions plus if they can swing the deal with Sony. Honestly, now that I say it, I think it might happen but not for a first Young Avengers movie because I can’t imagine Sony introducing Miles in time.

[phalange]

That was a lot of fun. I especially loved the scenes of Carol, Kamala, and Monica on the ship working out the whole switching places thing by jumping rope and balancing books on their heads. All of Kamala's fangirling over Carol was hilarious, but I also like that she apologized for sort of putting Carol on a pedestal.

I get why Kamala's family was confused at Monica calling Carol her aunt since they look the same age and people may not realize Carol is decades older than she looks.

Carol being a princess to a planet because she has a marriage of convenience with the prince was great. Kamala was dancing and having a good time and Monica looked like she wanted out of there immediately. I laughed when Monica told Kamala she'll have a lot of material for her Captain Marvel fanfic.

My new favorite line in the entire MCU is now "Stop running and let the Flurkins eat you!" I would've gotten eaten by a Flurkin simply because I would've been trying to pet all the kittens.

So Monica is now in the X-Men universe with a Maria Rambeau who is presumably the Captain Marvel of that universe and has no idea who Monica is. I like Monica's character so I'm glad that she'll be in more movies in the future.

[arc]

Personally, I'm tickled that Lashana Lynch's character was killed offscreen (in Wandavision) after her first Marvel movie  and then Lynch has been in two more MCU projects since (Doctor Strange 2 and this one) with a pretty good chance to be in at least one more.

[Raja]

6 hours ago, phalange said:

Carol being a princess to a planet because she has a marriage of convenience with the prince was great. Kamala was dancing and having a good time and Monica looked like she wanted out of there immediately. I laughed when Monica told Kamala she'll have a lot of material for her Captain Marvel fanfic.

I think it was a great ideal which failed in execution. They just dipped their toe into the set up. A full out Bollywood style dance break was called for but with Kamala seeming to just recognize what was about to happen but not jumping in fully and Monica not buying in at all it was  just touched upon for the bilingual joke. 

[tv echo]

WEEKEND BOX OFFICE RESULTS: THE MARVELS WINS WEEKEND WITH LOWEST MCU OPENING
by Erik Childress | November 12, 2023
https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/weekend-box-office-results-the-marvels-wins-weekend-with-lowest-mcu-opening/ 

Quote

Leading the pack of movies in theaters this week is The Marvels, which ended up with $47 million. That is less than the first Ant-Man film in 2015 ($57.2 million) and even The Incredible Hulk with Edward Norton in 2008 ($55.4 million). While the latter film ultimately resulted in a casting change and has the most miniscule connection to the greater MCU, it is still the lowest-grossing film in a 15-year journey. Black Widow and Eternals are the only post-Endgame films to gross lower than $200 million, and each could at least use the pandemic as an excuse, even if Chloe Zhao’s film has the second-lowest score (47%) with critics and is one of only two MCU films to be Rotten on the Tomatometer.

This year’s Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania maintains the dubious crown on the worst-reviewed film of the lot at 46%. And despite some of the loudest voices out there on The Marvels, it is still treading water on the positive side at 62%. Let’s not get too crazy about that score, though, given it is the third-worst in the MCU, just below last year’s Thor: Love and Thunder (65%). But is The Marvels a near-final nail in the coffin in the appeal of comic book fare? While the grosses are more in line (and well below) the post-Endgame pandemic era releases, the last five MCU films still all opened to over $100 million, with four grossing over $340 million and two reaching over $400 million.

What The Marvels’ Big Twists Mean for Ms. Marvel, WandaVision’s Monica and That Other MCU TV Hero
BY MATT WEBB MITOVICH   NOVEMBER 10, 2023 
https://tvline.com/lists/the-marvels-ending-explained-mid-credits-scene-x-men-kate-bishop-cameos/ 

How ‘The Marvels’ Got Its Blerd Girl Energy
Nia DaCosta ignored the haters and made the movie her teenage self would want to see
By Angelique Jackson    Nov 9, 2023
https://variety.com/2023/film/features/nia-dacosta-the-marvels-1235785554/ 

The Marvels | Park Seo-Jun | Now Playing In Theaters
Marvel Entertainment   Nov 12, 2023

Edited November 13, 2023 by tv echo

[joanne3482]

I went on Saturday, specifically so my dollars count in the weekend box office. I really enjoyed it, but because I don't know the comics that well (or at all) there was a tiny part of me that wondered if there wasn't some "What do girls like? They like kittens and musicals" going on. Like in the source material is Carol married to a prince whose planet communicates in song? I don't know. It just felt like the singing and the kittens were tacked on because "girls like these things." 

I also didn't realize that Kamala would still have her powers without the bracelet/arm band thing. I thought that's what provided her powers so that was a little confusing. (I did watch her series, but it's been a hot minute). 

[Guest]

I really enjoyed it. The early fight scenes were among the best in the MCU. I thought all three of the leads were handled well. I loved that the didn’t just gloss over the emotional aspects with Monica and Carol. They actually had the tough conversations. 

It had it’s flaws but it didn’t detract much from my enjoyment. 

On 11/12/2023 at 4:34 PM, Sakura12 said:

Who do we have for the young Avengers? Kamala, Kate and Cassie. I guess Hulk's son, and Iron heart. Wanda's twins are supposed to be in it. I guess it depends on if they exist. 

America Chavez and Eli Bradley. 

[Lantern7]

On 11/12/2023 at 7:34 PM, Sakura12 said:

Who do we have for the young Avengers? Kamala, Kate and Cassie. I guess Hulk's son, and Iron heart. Wanda's twins are supposed to be in it. I guess it depends on if they exist. 

2 hours ago, Dani said:

America Chavez and Eli Bradley. 

Spider-Man. After the events of No Way Home, I figure he would be a free agent. And if you're going to do Young Avengers/Champions, he would be the biggest name.

Is it odd that I don't get happy from the lack of box office success of The Marvels? I admit that I'm a little burnt out of superhero movies (and I haven't even watch the D+ series), but some people are taking too much joy out of that.

On 11/12/2023 at 3:55 AM, arc said:

It was just announced that Disney would be hitting a major pause button on most of their MCU output. Deadpool is now the only MCU movie scheduled for 2024; many others have moved to 2025.

Probably for the best . . . though it does put a lot of weight on the shoulders of Ryan and Hugh.

[arc]

19 hours ago, Raja said:

A full out Bollywood style dance break was called for

Plus, Vellani is great as a dancer. I mean, I don't know about technical skill, but she was so watchable and clearly having fun during the little bits of dance in Ms Marvel. I figured when I first saw the singing and dancing planet in the trailers that they put it in there to play to one of her strengths.

[Raja]

5 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Spider-Man. After the events of No Way Home, I figure he would be a free agent. And if you're going to do Young Avengers/Champions, he would be the biggest name.

Is it odd that I don't get happy from the lack of box office success of The Marvels? I admit that I'm a little burnt out of superhero movies (and I haven't even watch the D+ series), but some people are taking too much joy out of that.

Probably for the best . . . though it does put a lot of weight on the shoulders of Ryan and Hugh.

A big problem with the recent lack of success is that Sony has less incentive to lease back its Spiderman characters to Disney and the MCU. Narratively speaking they can now keep Peter, or Miles, identity secret as most masked vigilantes are while the MCU characters are all known to the public in the movies .

Meanwhile Deadpool might be an attempt to punch the FOX acquisitions into the MCU.  Or its a goodbye tour as they  recast everybody since the FOX X-Men actors are even older than the Disney Avenger ones who are retiring from their roles.

The 2 year COVID and now the strike's year "blip" combined with another unplanned pullback to redo stuff already partially produced will see the remaining momentum lost. I was too young to appreciate the end of the western as a dominant genre but I think I am watching a similar thing in the rise and fall of the costumed superhero genre.

[Anduin]

27 minutes ago, Raja said:

Meanwhile Deadpool might be an attempt to punch the FOX acquisitions into the MCU.  Or its a goodbye tour as they  recast everybody since the FOX X-Men actors are even older than the Disney Avenger ones who are retiring from their roles.

While Kelsey Grammar was doing the voice, Beast's body was apparently CG. They could bring the younger cast in. James McAvoy, Michael Fassbender, and so on. Though they might still be too young even in two more years or whenever they'll actually film the next X-Movie.

As for the fall of the superhero genre, I'm not so sure. The Marvels was sabotaged by several factors, despite being very good. If they keep the quality up after a break, it'll be just the right kind of thing.