S05.E06: Tired, Okay?!

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

A distracted Issa mulls over work and love as she stumbles through the consequences of her falling out with a colleague. Meanwhile, Molly — still struggling to cope with family matters — finds comfort in an unlikely source.

Original air date 2021.11.28

[ShellsandCheese]

Molly was driving me nuts this episode. Like you have the ability to do so, take some time off from work. Talk to your coworkers; she’s lucky that Taureen was so understanding….that being said Yvonne Orji is sooo stunning with the short hair. 
 

And while I think Nathan and Issa are just totally mismatched - Nathan was right. Issa is the one who has been all over the place. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by ShellsandCheese

[Amethyst]

Ugh, Crenshawn.  Issa could have handled this better earlier, but that doesn't justify Crenshawn's childish behavior since the event.  He's badmouthing Issa to other potential clients and he still wants an apology, despite his own business doing well.  If Crenshawn doesn't want to work with her then he needs to say that, because this plot is dragging and giving absolutely nothing.  Neither party looks good here.

Molly and Taurean were cute.  Wasn't expecting that, but they would be a nice couple.  I heard Taurean's "My mom has a mug" line was improvised.

This is the first time the ghosting label really did apply to Nathan, imo.  Completely understand why he would want to quit the shop, but LA altogether?  

That said, I wouldn't have blamed Nathan if he'd knocked the daylights out of the Suge right there in the shop.  What Suge said was just ignorant and cruel.  I get the impression that he does whatever he wants because he brings in lucrative clients.  Please.  Making your regular clients wait like that with no notice is just bad business and people don't have to deal with that.

[aghst]

I wonder if they planned for Molly to end up with Taurean at the end when they introduced the character a few seasons ago.  Initially he was an irritating presence in Molly's office, as a ultra competitive co-worker and then he wasn't even in most of the episodes since.

Or they just decided to pick him because they had to pair her with someone by the finale.  Though in the Wine Down, they talked about people being around each other for years and suddenly seeing a person in a new light.

I understand they were at a retreat but aren't lawyers generally conservative, trying to uphold a professional image all the time?  Someone posted Molly on social media dancing but she doesn't recall it because she was drunk?  Maybe not a good career move?

 

Issa is still struggling professionally, still references juggling her business with driving Lyft.  Well maybe she isn't driving but she's not financially secure.  So this beef with Crenshawn is the last thing she needs.  But I don't quite get street artists and fashion designers refusing to work with Issa's company.  She apparently has corporate sponsors, through her alumni networks.  So this group was willing to work with her and her sponsor until they weren't?  Crenshawn presumably got paid, even if he went off script.  He may want to hold a grudge against Issa for whatever reason, and demanding an apology when he's the one who didn't honor the understanding they had before the show?

Meanwhile this new group is passing on her company because of Crenshawn, who still got paid BTW? 

 

I enjoyed the daydream sequences, guess it's a different way to show what's going on in Issa's mind than when she's seeing her alter ego in the bathroom mirror.  The physical humor of both scenes is definitely a departure.  But in the second one Condola brags about being with Lawrence now, with him moving back to LA, with a job paying him a billion dollars, and a bigger dick than when he was with Issa.

Would she not mind it if she was back with Lawrence and had the financial security of his income to alleviate some of the worries she has?

 

[LydiaMoon1]

This episode legit pissed me all the way off. First of all, I despise how Issa turned turned Condo into the villain in each of her dream sequences. I'm like, honey, she's just a single woman who dated a single man and got pregnant and decided to have her baby. All of which were well within her rights. Stop blaming another woman for your problems. Issa and Lawrence were together for 5 years. If they couldn't get their ish together during that time or in the years that have passed since then, that's completely on Issa and Lawrence. You made your choices. She made hers. Everybody has to live with the choices they make.

Second, why in THE ELL did Issa apologize to Crenshawn? For what??? She promised him exposure and she gave him exposure. I don't know what she promised him when she recruited him, but I was so perturbed when he accused her of not having his back. Why would she be obligated to have his back? Her obligation is to her company and her clients, and all she owed him was the exposure and opportunity he received. I get so tired of everybody expecting black women to mule for them to the detriment of ourselves. EFF THAT and F U Crenshawn!

Third, why did it take so long for Molly to tell her colleagues that her mother was sick? That is a huge deal. I'm ready for black women to stop being superwoman and taking the burdens of the world on our shoulders. Step back. Ask for help. Get the grace that we constantly give to others. Why is that so hard for some of us to do?

Fourth, why is Issa trying so hard to make fetch happen with Nathan? She doesn't love him. He doesn't love her. You know, I got mad before when Nathan said that Issa was all over the place, but you know what? He's right. It's past time for her to pull up her big girl panties and decide what she wants once and for all.  Girl, if Lawrence is who you really want, go get Lawrence and accept the baggage that comes with him. If he's not what you want, let him go and move on. Tired of her acting like a leaf in the wind with no control over her life.

[Empress1]

6 hours ago, aghst said:

I understand they were at a retreat but aren't lawyers generally conservative, trying to uphold a professional image all the time?  Someone posted Molly on social media dancing but she doesn't recall it because she was drunk?  Maybe not a good career move?

There’s a lot of addiction in law because of the stress. 

I’m not a lawyer but I once had to go to a work retreat and everybody but me and the three pregnant coworkers I had at the time was drunk all the time we weren’t working, but the culture of that employer was pretty boozy (I hated it).

Molly really did need to tell someone what was going on. She’s trying to do too much.

6 hours ago, aghst said:

Would she not mind it if she was back with Lawrence and had the financial security of his income to alleviate some of the worries she has?

He was back on his feet professionally when their relationship fell apart. He’d gotten that new tech job - she showed up at it to apologize for cheating.

I was cracking up when Issa was trying to get Nathan to tell her he loved her during sex, but for one, Issa, you don’t want to talk somebody into loving you (and you can’t anyway), and two, you don’t love ol’ Nanceford anyway.

[Sheenieb]

1 hour ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

Second, why in THE ELL did Issa apologize to Crenshawn? For what??? She promised him exposure and she gave him exposure. I don't know what she promised him when she recruited him, but I was so perturbed when he accused her of not having his back. Why would she be obligated to have his back? Her obligation is to her company and her clients, and all she owed him was the exposure and opportunity he received. I get so tired of everybody expecting black women to mule for them to the detriment of ourselves. EFF THAT and F U Crenshawn!

Amen to your entire post, but I really want to do a praise dance to this part right here. I can't stand how the show is putting Issa solely in the wrong regarding this Crenshawn situation. It's fine for him to be petulant and badmouth Issa on social media, meanwhile, he conveniently leaves out how he agreed with the sponsor's changes, only to flip the script, not tell Issa, and potentially put her in a bad situation. Crenshawn was well within his rights to change his mind, but he should've clued Issa in and not leave her in the dark. His stunt could've backfired. But Issa's wrong? She's the one who didn't have his back? He clearly didn't have hers, either. But he's going on this Hotep-ass rant about them being in the trenches together. OK, bro. 

This was another so-so episode for me. If this is the arc of the season, then I'm OK with it ending. I was disappointed that the Lawrence/Issa/Condola meeting was a fake-out. That could've been an interesting scene, but instead, it went nowhere. 

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

I was cracking up when Issa was trying to get Nathan to tell her he loved her during sex, but for one, Issa, you don’t want to talk somebody into loving you (and you can’t anyway), and two, you don’t love ol’ Nanceford anyway.

Yeah, word. She's clearly forcing herself to move on, and she's using Nanceford in the process, so I didn't blame him for shutting her down. She is inconsistent. And pro-tip, Issa, you do not want to get anyone to declare love during sessions, they don't even remember their name when things are going well. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Sheenieb

[PrincessPurrsALot]

I am hoping that the Crenshawn storyline leads to Issa standing up to him and pointing out all of the things people on this board have said. She upheld her side of the contract; he did not.  He was very lucky the sponsor paid after he pulled what he did.  All artists in the public sphere compromise on certain things to get their names out there. If he gets bigger, he'll have more control.  His brand is not going to get bigger if he acts like a petty child. 

And yes, you don;t try to get someone to say they love you.  That doesn't work.  Heck, people "love" people all the time during sex.  They also become very religious, "Oh God!"  Doesn't mean either is real after the orgasm. 

[DearEvette]

This is the episode where it felt like everybody was working against their own best interests, like aggressively so.

- Issa -- I know part of her shtick is that she is awkward when it comes to communicating, and her business is new, but being conciliatory with Crenshwawn is the wrong take.  Like her dream alter ego told her, she needs to own her decisions.  She needed disabuse him of he notion that someone at his waay behind-the-starting line position gets to make no compromises. 

Also, Issa you can't force love.  It is so glaring that she is trying to force something between her and Nathan to bandage over what she no longer has with Lawrence.  She is putting herself and Nathan in a bad position.

-Crenshawn - While he is busy dissing Issa, IRL some of that would blow back on him.  I don't exactly know what  his current relationship with the sponsor is, but if he thinks he can negotiate with them in the future without Issa especially given his attitude he is in for a rude awakening.  Also it may give other promoters pause in wanting to work with him if his MO is to bad mouth people in Social Media.  My grandma always used to say 'Don't step on people on your way up because they'll be the ones greasing the pole when you start to slide back down."

- Molly.  Look, I get it that depending on the culture of the workplace you can not show ANY vulnerability.  One might think people are humane enough to give her a break or be understanding if they knew she was dealing with stuff with a sick parent.  One would be wrong.  There are workplaces where if you use any sort of personal anything outside of an actual death, to take time off or ask for more time, it can be held against you.  And this is especially fraught for women and POC.  And I could totally see something like that being the case in her previous firm.  But... but...  Molly did herself no favors.  She was distracted and sloppy.  So she just came off as looking unprepared and unprofessional without cause.  As a lawyer, she should know the need to to establish facts.  She could have still been there, been present while at the same time letting people know she needed to be available by phone to her family because of her mothers' condition -- she was the power of attorney, she is the one that needs to make decisions, financial arrangements etc. etc.  She could have spun it as something she was multi-tasking.  And made herself look stronger, not weaker.

- Nathan - I agree with him that Issa is all over the place.  And he is right to be wary about her.  But if possible he is a worse communicator than Issa is.  Use your words!

[tennisgurl]

If Issa is going to have fantasies about drop kicking people it should be about smacking that smug smirk off of Crenshaw's face, what an absolute prick. I hate that the show is making Issa have to beg him for forgiveness, he's the one who should be apologizing for screwing her over so that he can be "real" he certainly shouldn't be blasting her all over social media and making passive aggressive shirts. He really wants to act like he has the moral high ground for childishly going off script at the last minute after Issa worked so hard to get him the exposure that he asked for? I hate that Issa is just letting him get away with being such an asshole and that her business, which she has worked so hard on, is suffering because of this petulant ass. I would think that some of what really happened would be getting around though, I cant imagine future sponsors would want to work with him if he gets a reputation for bad mouthing people he works with on social media and ignoring the notes he gets. The guy is just starting out, Issa had to fight for him, does he really think that he will never have to compromise his vision even a tiny bit? I guess karma will catch up with him when his career falls apart after everyone sees what a pain in the ass he is. 

Speaking of being a massive prick, fuck Nathan's asshole cousin for throwing his bipolar disorder in his face in front of everyone, just because Nathan was trying to help him out. It sounds like, even if he does bring in big name clients, his cousin clearly runs a crappy business and being a dick about Nathan's illness is disgusting. 

Nathan and Issa are so awkward, its clear that they're over but neither of them want to acknowledge it. They have zero romantic chemistry, its obvious that Issa is back with Nathan because he's familiar and she feels like she cant be with Lawrence. The two of them have the worst communication skills, Issa is trying to awkwardly force Nathan to say that he loves her while not actually talking about it while Nathan is clearly annoyed that Issa isn't taking much interest in him, they really just need to talk, and hopefully realize they're better as friends before things get ugly. 

Molly has made so much progress in trying not to be so uptight, but she clearly has a lot more work to do. She was driving me nuts not telling her co-workers about her mom, I would think that even at a hyper competitive workplace her mom having a stroke would be a good reason to take some time off. Instead she came off as messy and unprofessional just because she wouldn't explain what was going on. 

I was annoyed at every story I think, especially that Issa seeing Lawrence, Condolla, and the baby was just in Issa's head, that would have been a really interesting way to get this plot moving. 

[LydiaMoon1]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I was annoyed at every story I think, especially that Issa seeing Lawrence, Condolla, and the baby was just in Issa's head, that would have been a really interesting way to get this plot moving. 

Agreed. I was so proud of Issa for greeting Condo and Larry. When she acknowledged the baby and even agreed to hold him, I thought to myself that Issa was finally growing up. Then, she tossed the baby and drop-kicked Condo and I knew it was a dream. I guess it was too much to hope for that Issa would stop acting 13. To clarify, I've always agreed with Issa's decision to walk away from Larry if she didn't want to deal with all that came with him, but that sequence was just stupid and childish.

[DearEvette]

Y'know -- the better side of me wishes we did get a real scene of Issa making nice with Condola and Lawrence and holding the baby.

But the petty part of me understands the need to disappear into your head and indulge in an immature reaction fantasy once in awhile.  It doesn't have to be rational or deserved or even righteous, it just needs to be that thing that in your own head makes you feel better.  I have cussed out and bitch slapped and smote with lightning and thunder close family members and total strangers in my head for real and imagined slights .  That's how people are  -- they create a public justice in their own heads that they could never (and should never) do for real.

And yes, i wish it had been Crenshawn instead of C&L.  But more than anything those two fake-out interludes just lets us know even more that Issa is pressed about Lawrence and she and Nathan are just not it.

[Hera]

This episode felt really off to me. Both the tension between Molly and Taurean and the ending with Issa and Nathan felt abrupt and awkward in a way that felt like a shortcoming of the direction/editing rather than an intentional choice. But maybe I'm just being too critical because I didn't like this episode overall. People complained that last week felt like filler, but to me that was this episode. Nothing was achieved on Issa's end: Crenshawn is still mad at her (and she is not nearly as angry as she should be at him), Nathan still doesn't love her, and she's still not over Lawrence. However, I enjoyed the fantasy sequences. I think I would have preferred seeing Issa work through her angst with extended fantasy sequences (in particular, I'd like to see one where Crenshawn comes back to her grovelling after he's burned every bridge he has) than what we actually got with her.

I really don't know what the writers are intending with Crenshawn. He is being so unreasonable and it doesn't seem like that's ever going to be addressed, much like Molly's belief last season that Issa was wrong to get Andrew's help in finding a new headliner (it was fair enough that Molly did not want to be the one to hook them up, but Issa was not out of line in seeking him out in a professional context). Issa should step back and let him be his own downfall. She should also quietly drop his fashion show from her portfolio. She's done a number of events by this point and should have other things she can point to when she's pitching herself to prospective clients. If she's asked about Crenshawn, she should have a canned response along the lines of, "He's very talented and I wish him well in his future endeavors," and, if pushed, "I know he's been saying things about me on social media. Obviously, I have my own perspective on what happened, but I am not in the business of feuding—especially not with former clients."

Similarly with Suge: are we supposed to think he had a point and only crossed a line when he brought up Nathan's bipolar disorder? Because I was on Nathan's side from the outset. You can't steal a client who isn't willing to be stolen, and Suge primed his clients to be stolen by not turning up for their appointments. That's totally on him. And he apparently doesn't clean up his station? Nathan's colleagues should have backed him way harder than they did, in my opinion. Intermittent visits from high-profile clients aren't going to save the shop if they end up getting a reputation for being flaky and unprofessional.

At least Molly got to progress a little bit: she gets on well with her coworkers now, she finally told someone at work about her mom, and her mom woke up. But seriously, Molly, if you're not going to check your phone during your presentation, put it in your handbag and/or on "do not disturb" so that you can't see it buzzing every 20 seconds (which is distracting to everyone who can see or hear it, not just you). I could see Taurean being end-game for her: he's her professional equal so he understands the demands of her career, but can also tell her when she's overworking herself. He's also assertive (in a way that Andrew wasn't), so won't be afraid to call her out and have the argument when she's being needlessly judgmental or does annoying things like change what kind of take-out they get without consulting him.

[qtpye]

I do not know why but something about the flow of this season just feels real off to me. I used to love this show but now I am barely paying attention.

I am sick of Issa and Lawrence-they have had years to make it work.

Crenshaw is an asshole and I am sick of Issa bowing and scraping to his tantrums.

Molly wilding out on the office retreat while her mother is in the hospital just did not feel like her character.

 

[lasu]

I am SO GLAD I'm reading so many of the same complaints here that I am having with this season's storylines.

1. Are we the viewers supposed to be on Crenshawn's side?  He entered into an agreement.  He agreed to certain parameters on his show.  He broke his agreement.  But Issa's the bad guy?  No, as it has played out HE took advantage of HER.  He gambled with HER professional career (if the waterboy hadn't liked it, he would have blamed Issa, not Crenshawn).  If he wanted to tell her she was a sell out, that she didn't have is back, that he didn't want to tailor his show, those are all fair things to do...BEFORE.  Instead, he used her professional connections to get ahead regardless of the consequences it might have for her, and now that he got EVERYthing he wanted exactly the way he wanted it, he's trying to ruin Issa?  It's not fun watching Issa grovel over this this close to the end of the season.  I don't get it.

2. Is Molly's work so cutthroat you can't even admit you are having a real family crisis without it looking like a weakness, or is it the kind of place where you can get blackout drunk and turn out with your coworkers and everyone sees it as a good time?  Because it can't be both.

3. Why was Issa wearing a sweater (THAT WAS NOT A SWEATER DRESS!!!) and heels?  Ain't got no pants on!

Those were my complaints, the rest are my comments:

I was bummed when I realized the baby scene was a dream, but for a different reason.  When I thought it was real, I thought that meant they weren't going with Lawrence as end game, and I don't want Lawrence as end game.  I genuinely like him and I actually liked him and Issa together, but with the baby it's too much for me personally to root for.  It would be different if he already had a kid, but watching this bond form between him and another woman (an appropriate and healthy bond, I might add - it's best for their child) would be too painful for me.  I 100% know he was not cheating and did nothing wrong, but it would feel wrong to me.

As far as Issa making Condo the bad guy?  Totally normal.  Just like Lawrence in my last paragraph, Condo did nothing wrong.  I get that. But as long as Issa is just drop kicking her in fantasies, I can't get mad about that.  It might not be reasonable or fair, but it's understandable to secretly hate the "other woman" in this case, because she was so close to getting her dream, and in no version of that dream is there a baby momma.  Even if they work it all out, I think Issa will always live with the "what if" Condo hadn't gotten pregnant, "what if" Lawrence didn't have a child with another woman?  It's a tough pill to swallow, even if there isn't anyone who did anything actually wrong.  Shit, maybe that makes it even worse.

I don't hate Taurean as end game for Molly; it works for me - they make sense together on paper, so if the sparks fly...But, that said, I wish they had developed it a little more.  It seems to obvious they just needed a male character who had screen time prior to this season.

[TVbitch]

Watching this ep, I kept thinking they will either put Molly and Taurean or Issa and Crenshawn together by the time this season is over. I don't like either. Too convenient. Can't Molly just receive some kindness and compassion from a colleague without it becoming a thing? And I've never bought into the "friction turns into passion" trope. Anyway, I hope they surprise me. 

 

[Joimiaroxeu]

The face. Not the neck, the face.

Clear the air? With Crenshawn? Forget brownies, AFAIC Issa better cut a bitch now that he's costing her business. 😉

Lol, Molly explaining to Taurean who Flava Flav is and his assuring her that he knew.

Yeah, Nathan had a point. Issa is looking at him to fix something in her life but is trying to call it love. But maybe instead of just leaving it hanging, he should've addressed it.

Quote

Issa and Crenshawn

WHAAAAAAT???!!!!??? OMG, no.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Joimiaroxeu

[lasu]

19 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Quote

Issa and Crenshawn

WHAAAAAAT???!!!!??? OMG, no.

No is correct.  I can't see it happening, but if they have Issa end the series with a guy who has been such an asshole and so disrespectful of her, it will ruin a show I have greatly enjoyed.  A bad ending can ruin EVERYTHING, right Dexter?? The only upside to such an idea is JUST LIKE THAT I'm back on board with Issa/Lawrence.  Taurean and Molly certainly had friction at the beginning, and I do think the story is way over rushed, but I can still follow it.  Crenshawn is a whole different ballgame, and I'm calling foul on the play.

[aghst]

There was recently a poll showing that college educated women prefer to date college educated men.  Meanwhile, there's a bit of a gender gap in people entering college in recent years, with a lot of young men eschewing college.

Among the potential beaus, only Lawrence went to college, seems to have a career going now.

Remember in the first season, Molly was dating a guy and he announced he didn't go to college and her jaw dropped.  She didn't reject him immediately and only for that reason but they fizzled out as a couple, don't quite remember the particulars of that arc.

Issa went to Stanford, has career aspirations.  Her friends all went to college -- the same college actually.  Issa Rae herself is a successful Stanford alumna.  You would expect the character and the actor both would end up with someone who has similar outlooks on career, art, life as well as shared experiences or interests.

Not saying a college educated career woman can't have these things in common with someone who didn't go to college but it would be easier  for couples with similar backgrounds?

But I wonder what the reaction would be, with the following this show has in the community, if Issa is seen as ultimately breaking up with Nathan because he only cuts hair, ends up with Lawrence who now has a very successful career.

[LuvMyShows]

 

On 11/29/2021 at 11:43 AM, DearEvette said:

Also, Issa you can't force love.  It is so glaring that she is trying to force something between her and Nathan to bandage over what she no longer has with Lawrence.  She is putting herself and Nathan in a bad position.

On 11/29/2021 at 9:49 AM, Empress1 said:

I was cracking up when Issa was trying to get Nathan to tell her he loved her during sex, but for one, Issa, you don’t want to talk somebody into loving you (and you can’t anyway), and two, you don’t love ol’ Nanceford anyway.

It seemed very out of character for her to have said the "That's why I love you" thing in the first place.  I feel like the Issa we've come to know would have reflected on it later, and realized how misplaced it was, and at the least, would have not said anything more about it ever.  But instead, she basically doubled-down on it by trying to get Nathan to say it during sex (stupid, something her character wouldn't have done, but it was funny), and then when that didn't work, initiated a serious conversation about it.  With all the growth that we've seen her character have, this seemed like an unrealistic regression, even given the setback she is experiencing in her work life.

On 11/29/2021 at 6:49 PM, qtpye said:

Molly wilding out on the office retreat while her mother is in the hospital just did not feel like her character.

I agree.  Were they trying to imply that her reason for doing that was sort of a tension releaser because of her concern about her mom?  If so, they didn't do a good job portraying that.  If not, then what was the reason for her doing something so out of character?  Yes, the retreat environment was more casual, but this went waaayyy beyond that.

And a question.  They showed Molly the footage of her dancing, because she had asked about how Taurean's watch came to be in her bed.  I still don't get it.  Were they implying that she was so drunk, as exemplified by her dancing, that Taurean had to put her to bed and that's how he left his watch?

[Empress1]

On 12/1/2021 at 11:52 AM, aghst said:

Remember in the first season, Molly was dating a guy and he announced he didn't go to college and her jaw dropped.  She didn't reject him immediately and only for that reason but they fizzled out as a couple, don't quite remember the particulars of that arc.

I think the bigger issue was that that guy had had a same-sex encounter and Molly couldn’t get past it. I think Molly was OK with him not going to college, and the guy was totally secure in it and with his unglamorous job (I think he worked retail?). But he revealed to Molly that he’d fooled around with a man and didn’t like it (and he was also totally secure in that; I think the show was trying to show that he was a really good guy & Molly was getting in her own way), and much of the group was like “um …” about it.

[Eri]

I feel sorry for Nathan. He needs to talk to someone in therapy because he has family that rejects him, work colleagues that shame him and a girlfriend that doesn't have the emotional capacity to understand him while she pines for another. They also have little chemistry so watching their relationship makes me cringe. It's going to blow up in their face spectacularly :(