S08.E02: Armageddon, Part 2

[Trini]

Despero (guest star Tony Curran) warns The Flash that great tragedies will befall the speedster and cause him to lose his mind. Once that happens, Armageddon will begin. Determined to prove Despero wrong, Barry doubles down on proving his innocence but a devastating revelation from Iris pushes him to the edge and sends him to seek counsel from Black Lightning (guest star Cress Williams).

Menhaj Huda directed the episode written by Jonathan Butler & Gabriel Garza.

Airdate: 11/23/2021

Edited November 24, 2021 by Trini

[scarynikki12]

Oh, good, the Let Me Work The Case I Swear I'm Innocent Despite Having No Proof, trope. Look, we all know Barry's innocent but he needs to let the investigators do their job rather than giving in to tropes. We know Team Flash will go their own investigating so focus on that. 

I know the character has an actual name but he'll always be Markus to me.

It's cute that Barry's concerned about the public learning he's The Flash when he already happily tells everyone he meets.

The holographic seals are cool. RIP Flash Gideon.

It would be cool if the Star Labs lockdown leads to a new set but I'm sure they'll be back after the event.

Why does Barry always stop and chat with the bad guys? Take them by surprise, put on the dampener cuffs, and THEN have a chat. That's how you avoid getting your mind messed with by an evil psychic. Zotar (sp?) look is super cool at least.

So Joe is dead after all? I'm sure that will get reversed as well since it seems to be the catalyst for driving Barry insane.

Nice use of Twilight Zone music.

What are Kara and J'onn doing? Fall Break on Argo?

Hall of Justice with Jefferson is a great idea Barry. Hi, Jefferson!

[Primal Slayer]

The DEO doesnt have any info on Despero so he must be the most dangerous alien ever? I mean....how and why would the DEO expect to have information on every single alien lifeform? Come on now...even Star Trek hasnt encountered every single lifebeing out there.

I love how Barry and co. just encountered the future offspring a couple months ago where Barry was long and gone and Central City was intact but they dont even think about that?

Cecile....how you gonna slap anyone with anything when Barry hasnt been terminated. Just suspended pending investigation.

I am so over Chester and his dramatic backstories. Every episode they have him questioning himself and needing to be uplifted by the team. IT's OLD.

If Zoltar wants to steal some priceless paintings...was she just going to walk home with it? Does she have a car parked near? 

Barry's powers really have become so big that he can come up with anything for any situation. 

I will say that I will be impressed if the writers have had Barry in a mind warp since the start of episode 1. If this isnt a mind warp then...I cant with this season already. 

At least The Flash is making excuses for Supergirl to be gone compared to both Sm&L/SG making excuses for each cousin not showing up to help one another. 

The Hall of Justice needs an upgrade. Its very moody. 

Does Jefferson live in the Hall of Justice? Why is he there? Or did barry call him?

[scarynikki12]

5 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I will say that I will be impressed if the writers have had Barry in a mind warp since the start of episode 1.

I'm guessing this will be the case as it lets them reverse everything that's been done so far.

[bettername2come]

I'm so proud of myself for immediately recognizing Kandyse McClure even in her villainous makeup and outfit. And let me express complete surprise that it took her this long to appear in the Arrowverse. I mean, she's a Vancouver-based sci-fi actress, she should've been here five years ago.

Aw, Barry did the superhero landing. He usually just dramatically stops in a side lunge or runner's crouch. 

Grant Gustin and Danielle Nicolet play those freaking out scenes so well. I'm trying to remember if Barry was in the scenes where they hinted at Joe's death last episode. 

12 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Does Jefferson live in the Hall of Justice? Why is he there? Or did barry call him?

I don't know why Jefferson just showed up but I want to believe it's because there was a weird giant lightning blast and he just had to check it out ala "there's a disturbance in the force" kind of thing. 

[cambridgeguy]

22 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

I'm trying to remember if Barry was in the scenes where they hinted at Joe's death last episode. 

Yes, he was standing right next to Cecile when Chester said that he was like dead to Ray, but I guess Barry wasn't really listening.  Just like in this episode when Iris mentioned she was headed over to be with Cecile and Jenna since they had been having a hard time but he didn't have much of a reaction.  Sure, he was preoccupied but you'd think he ask why.

[rmontro]

I half expected Gideon to start singing "Daisy, Daisy" when she was being deleted.

[Lantern7]

 I forgot that Grant Gustin can do manpain so well, and that Barry is very prone to suffer from that. Also, general stupidity.

Flash: Zotar, eh? Shouldn't you be turning tweens into adult men?

Zotar: *tch* That's Zoltar. You are SO basic!

Flash: Cool. I'm just gonna subdue you by running in a straight line, knowing that your deal is making people go mad.

Still, it is painful to watch Barry go through the wringer. Watching friends and family be horrified that he forgot Joe died (uh huh) doesn't help. Given that this was the day Barry would jump off the deep end, wouldn't they at least consider he wasn't being cruel?

Despero is starting to annoy me. "You're gonna destroy the world, Flash. Your mind is gonna snap like a twig. Incidentally, my alien abilities are psychic in nature, and I have poked in your brain a few times already. Totally a coincidence!"

Chester burned a house down with a ray gun. And this was when he was a kid. AND his inspiration was Marvin the Martian. He really does belong on Team Flash!

(Hall of Justice)

Flash: (close to weeping) Oh, God! So much manpain!

Offscreen Voice: Manpain, huh? I can relate.

Flash: Jefferson?!?

Jefferson: Heard you were having problems and you don't have an older man to hold your hand. While I'm here . . . has anyone been in this room sine Crisis?

Flash: (wiping face) You know, I don't think so.

Jefferson: Yeah, we were gonna be the Justice .  . Round Table or something. And we never did find out what was making the weird squeaking noises.

Flash: Cisco found a few tufts of blue fur. We think someone dropped a Beebo doll into the crawlspace.

Hi, Alex! Bye, Alex!

[Trini]

Okay, the plot thickens... I dig it.

First off - I REFUSE to believe Joe is dead. JLM ain't going out like that! But it is an compelling twist that apparently Barry is the only one who thinks he's still alive.

The other twist - that must be someone else impersonating Barry/Flash (when he attacked the city) - that's still my theory for now.

Gideon better not be really dead either! Deleting herself seems like overkill for the situation; but Barry needed to lose everything, I guess.

Took a whole eight seasons for the city to pay attention to STAR Labs! It was interesting to see other civilians in there. On one hand, I've wanted Barry to be separated from STAR Labs for a while; but on the other hand it's a great resource. I'm guessing SL will be restored, but let me enjoy this while I can. Glad there was a shutdown protocol.

Alex! Wish she was here in person, but it was still cool to see her helping the Team. So Supergirl and J'onn are "off world"; what's Superman's excuse? Glad they got a mention, though.

So how do we know Despero himself isn't messing with Barry's mind?

On 11/23/2021 at 9:01 PM, Primal Slayer said:

 

I love how Barry and co. just encountered the future offspring a couple months ago where Barry was long and gone and Central City was intact but they dont even think about that?

 

Yes, I need someone to mention this.

Xotar (according to the closed captions) was a good threat; nice costume too! I like when they give the Flash a situation that isn't easily solved by running fast.

Black Lightning! I thought we'd see more Jefferson here, but I'm definitely excited to see what next week brings.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Trini

[Oreo2234]

Quote

First off - I REFUSE to believe Joe is dead. JLM ain't going out like that! But it is an compelling twist that apparently Barry is the only one who thinks he's still alive.

I am certain Joe is either not dead or will be alive again by the end of this story. 

 

[tennisgurl]

You know what we haven't seen in awhile? Barry getting kicked in the teeth over and over. If Barry was going to lose it over dealing with never ending terrible things happing to him, I still say it would have happened already. Grant Gustin really does do great when Barry is especially miserable, he really does look like he's about to burst into those beautiful tears of his in every scene in the back half of the episode. Also, looks like Central citizens have taken some lessons from the ungrateful dicks of Star City, who are all apparently convinced instantly that The Flash has become a villain despite his years of saving the city/world/universe on a regular basis. The anchor didn't even consider that its a clone or a robot like has happened before or he's been brainwashed, just like what that villain that The Flash just publicly arrested does to people? Poor Barry, if he does finally crack I cant even really blame him, he's needed serious therapy for years now considering what a clusterfuck his life is. 

I just cannot buy that Joe is dead, especially being killed offscreen for the sake of a plot twist, so I am just going to enjoy what is actually a fairly interesting idea of Barry apparently blocking out Joe dying while everyone else remembers instead of getting pissed about what a terrible way this is to kill off a major character or how out of character it is that everyone has been acting all chill in the wake of Joe's supposed death, even if its been six months. 

Hi Alex! Nice seeing Alex, even if it was just for a few Zoom calls, and at least they came up with a reason for Kara and J'onn to not show up and save the day. Mentioning them does bring attention to everyone wondering why Despero cares about Earth being pretty silly, I am sure that people like Kara and J'onn would certainly care about the Earth being destroyed despite being aliens, they still consider Earth home even if they aren't from here. Still no word on what Clark is up to, but he's had a lot on his plate so he might not be checking his phone much. 

Of course Chester has to get an even more tragic backstory on top of his already tragic backstory, he cant just not feel comfortable making weapons. It has to be some whole melodramatic thing which requires him to get yet another pep talk. I hate to agree with Frost, but I do have to point out that having some heavy weapons around just in case isn't the worst idea just in case every possibly world destroying threat cant be stopped by Barry running really fast or the power of love. 

Has Despero thought that maybe, just maybe, him dicking with the Flash with his psychic powers is actually what cases him to snap in the future? Has no member of team flash thought to check in with their time traveling kids to see if their dad has gone dark side in the future? Or their various time traveler friends, one of whom was crashing on your couch yesterday? No one even brings it up?

So ready for Jefferson to be here. I guess he saw the lightning signal in the sky?

Edited November 24, 2021 by tennisgurl

[dmeets]

Barry Allen's Terrible, Horrible, No-Good, Very Bad Day. Is that bad-luck meta back (leveled up, naturally) and stalking Barry now? STAR Labs is condemned and the loft is trashed. Did the budget for sets slashed this year? Hopefully this doesn't lead to half the episodes taking place in a giant warehouse going forward. Or is this leading to the sets being leveled up?

Joe :( Couldn't he have leveled up with everyone else?

What was with Cecile's "why won't you just let me move on?" Barry didn't even know she was in earshot. And wouldn't she know that Barry is mentally blocking things? Hasn't she leveled up?

Edited November 24, 2021 by dmeets

[tennisgurl]

2 hours ago, dmeets said:

What was with Cecile's "why won't you just let me move on?" Barry didn't even know she was in earshot. And wouldn't she know that Barry is mentally blocking things? Hasn't she leveled up?

Also, considering Cecile is am empath, shouldn't she be able to tell how confused Barry is? Why does everyone seem to think that he's just being a dick? Does Barry have to run into the room holding his head screaming "I don't know what's appending!" for Cecile to sense that he doesn't know what's happening?

[appositival]

I like Barry's alibi, "I don't remember trashing the loft, so I couldn't have done it!" You don't remember leaving Xotar, so maybe you are still there.

22 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Why does Barry always stop and chat with the bad guys? Take them by surprise, put on the dampener cuffs, and THEN have a chat.

Yes! It doesn't matter how fast you are when you just stand there. I blame the writers that apparently can't think of a reasonable way for Barry to lose, so they hand him the idiot ball and he starts dribbling.

[Terrafamilia]

Hey, Chester. Anything you built could have malfunctioned and burned down that house.

[scarynikki12]

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Does Barry have to run into the room holding his head screaming "I don't know what's appending!" for Cecile to sense that he doesn't know what's happening?

No but I must admit it would be funny.

[Cthulhudrew]

Is this show being written by a bunch of Twitch streamers now? I swear you could make a drinking game out of how many times per episode someone says "level up." 😕🍺🥴

[thuganomics85]

Dammit, Barry!  Would it kill you to actually just apprehend the villain of a week with a quickness and not feel the need to introduce yourself first and be all "Aha!  I'm here to arrest you, evildoer!" about it, so they can use whatever power they have to thwart you?  Yeah, yeah, I know if Barry ever truly used his powers correctly that most episodes would probably end after only 15 minutes, but I wish they found other ways to do it that didn't make him come off looking dim.

So, yeah, there is a lot of weird stuff going on here that is confusing, but it will likely make more sense at the end.  For now though, I doubt Joe is actually dead, but I actually kind of like the idea that Barry is the only one who doesn't know this.  But since everyone other than Cecile seem that broken up over it, I don't think it actually happened.  It's only been sixth months apparently, so one would imagine it would still feel rough for Iris, but she really isn't acting like someone who just lost her dad.  Not sure what is at play here.

I wonder if we'll actually see Alex again, or if her entire arc for the crossover will be through these Zoom calls...

Stop.  Making.  "Level Up." Happen!!!

Tony Curran is still great, but I wish Despero would do more than just slink around and monologue.

Jefferson!  Looking forward to seeing more of him and Barry together again.

[quarks]

So I have a number of questions, some addressed already, but which I think need repeating:

1. The biggest: Did the Justice League really just leave a nice burning fire right in the center of their Hall of Justice, hoping that if anything happened, Oliver Queen's empty suit would jump out of its display case and smother the flames?  (I mean, ok, yes, since Oliver is Spectre now, I guess that's not too far off, but. Still.) Why is the floor wet? Did Jefferson make it rain inside the Hall of Justice, and if so, is Jefferson planning on mopping that up? Because that's a safety hazard, Jefferson, especially with a speedster around. Is Gleek still there? Why are we focusing on Barry's ongoing manpain instead of answering these important questions?

2. The second biggest: Why is nobody telling Destro that they regularly meet with a couple of kids from the future who have never mentioned any of this, and that they have friends who regularly time travel who, again, never mentioned any of this, a constantly reappearing Big Bad who has also time travelled and again, not mentioned any of this, not to mention Mon-El and Wynn who just returned from the future and failed to say anything along the lines of "Hey, your friend Barry? Watch out. Well, this was fun and we need to head back here."

I mean I assume Destro has some sort of answer for this. I mean, I have some sort of answer for this. I would just like it stated in the show.

3. The third biggest: Cecile does remember that as an attorney she should really know the difference between "suspended" and "fired," right?

4. The fourth biggest: (hopeful) Have we finally - finally - seen the last of the Star Labs sets? (hopeful)

5. The fifth biggest: Why does the DEO assume that they have a list of every bad guy in the universe?

6. The sixth biggest: And why would the DEO assume that someone not on that list must be an absolutely super terrible awful worst of the worst bad guy? Maybe prior to this Destro just stole Oreo cookies, or used BitTorrent to pirate WB movies....ok, I can see where WB would argue that that would make Destro one of the worst ever villains. My bad. Carry on.

7. The seventh biggest: Is this ongoing repetition of "level up" actually going to have any sort of payoff?

I have more questions, but instead of asking them, I'll just join everyone assuming that this entire season so far is a fakeout/mind warp of some sort.

[Trini]

On re-watch:

Hopefully those comments about STAR Labs being like home to her are a hint that Caitlin is getting a life outside that building. For most of the past 8 seasons it's been just that and Frost for her.

Speaking of; who is Frost to be giving Chester directions on what to build?? In any case, he should have been run that by Barry. I wonder if they're actually going to stick with this pacifist character note for Chester, or is it just a nice anecdote for this arc? Because Cisco was all about them guns.

I think there's a good chance that Despero himself is messing with Barry's mind. And maybe even the minds of those around Barry? Or maybe it could be the same person who impersonating Flash.

 

On 11/25/2021 at 2:22 AM, thuganomics85 said:

... But since everyone other than Cecile seem that broken up over it, I don't think it actually happened.  It's only been sixth months apparently, so one would imagine it would still feel rough for Iris, but she really isn't acting like someone who just lost her dad.  Not sure what is at play here.

In the last scene at the West home, in particular, Cecile was overreacting while Iris was underreacting -- it was weird.

[Whodunnit]

On 11/23/2021 at 10:29 PM, Lantern7 said:

Flash: Cool. I'm just gonna subdue you by running in a straight line, knowing that your deal is making people go mad.

This. Are the writers even trying anymore?😡

I had to stop watching a third of the way into the episode because Barry (who used to be smart) literally got told that something would make him go crazy, finds out that there is a crazy inducing meta on the loose, and then just decides to just run up to her and hope for the best. *Headdesk*

[Whodunnit]

They could have used a distance weapon with smoke to blind her, or had him sneak up from behind or something, literally anything would have been better than announcing his presence and then charging.

[Daltrey]

On 11/24/2021 at 10:57 PM, Cthulhudrew said:

I swear you could make a drinking game out of how many times per episode someone says "level up." 😕🍺🥴

🤣🤣🤣🤣 That's the exact same thought I had!🤣🤣🤣🤣