S04.E01: More Joy

[ams1001]

7 hours ago, bros402 said:

It didn't look like she was at the hospital - I think Iggy visited her in prison, which is why she had guards with her - but then how did they justify giving her a field trip?

He did visit her in prison; not sure they explained how they justified the field trip to the hospital. As someone else pointed out, I guess the FDNY/NYPD knows nothing about arson investigation. 🤷🏻‍♀️ In the end he said they were going to treat her at the hospital and wanted volunteers among his group of residents to take on the challenge because he doesn't see patients anymore.

[DearEvette]

Just to mimic what so many are saying... it it ridiculous to give us Max and Helen, talk up and hype "More Joy' only to immediately do a heel turn and introduce clumsy barriers and harsh any joy.

It would have been smarter to just make this one episode super upbeat.  Max and Helen could have basked in their happiness of finally being with each other and sexy times, and then over the course of the next several episodes it start to sink in that meshing their personal lives is going to be complicated.  It would have been realistic and allow the story to play out naturally.  As it is, it just feels like they went straight to the "you can't write for a happy couple" trope. 

And speaking of tropes, I swear I ripped a cornea from rolling my eyes so hard at Iggy's storyline.  Come on!  Out of the entire city of New York with it's police depts. and fire depts. and colleges not a single expert other than a pyro prisoner can help them?  A fully engaged fire like we saw would have had the fire dept, and investigators swarming.  I HATE the brilliant psycho prisoner sage trope SO MUCH.  Everyone wants to create a damn Hannibal Lechter.  It is stupid.

Because they burned through so many plots last season, I can't get invested in Floyd and Lyn and Bloom and Leyla at all.

[Cloud9Shopper]

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Just to mimic what so many are saying... it it ridiculous to give us Max and Helen, talk up and hype "More Joy' only to immediately do a heel turn and introduce clumsy barriers and harsh any joy.

It would have been smarter to just make this one episode super upbeat.  Max and Helen could have basked in their happiness of finally being with each other and sexy times, and then over the course of the next several episodes it start to sink in that meshing their personal lives is going to be complicated.  It would have been realistic and allow the story to play out naturally.  As it is, it just feels like they went straight to the "you can't write for a happy couple" trope. 

And speaking of tropes, I swear I ripped a cornea from rolling my eyes so hard at Iggy's storyline.  Come on!  Out of the entire city of New York with it's police depts. and fire depts. and colleges not a single expert other than a pyro prisoner can help them?  A fully engaged fire like we saw would have had the fire dept, and investigators swarming.  I HATE the brilliant psycho prisoner sage trope SO MUCH.  Everyone wants to create a damn Hannibal Lechter.  It is stupid.

Because they burned through so many plots last season, I can't get invested in Floyd and Lyn and Bloom and Leyla at all.

I feel like the writers are trying really hard to get us to care about Floyd and Lyn’s fling, but the actress playing her seems so disinterested and the plot line is beyond stupid for Floyd. This is such a huge nobody cares moment and yet it keeps getting pumped up in promos. I too feel disappointed that they blew up Sharpwin like that after hyping happiness for the premiere. Why have them get together then only for Helen to say oh yeah I want to go back to London forever? That’s her choice but seriously, show? It’s not as if Freema or Ryan are going to leave the show so I don’t know why go there.

I do like Leyla/Leyren but the way Lauren treated her was not cool. 

For as much as Iggy is flawed I do hope he and Martin are still happy. Martin is a great husband and I hope we can see him again this season. (I decided they are still together just so I can feel something is going right for a relationship on this show.)
 

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Cloud9Shopper

[circumvent]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I feel like the writers are trying really hard to get us to care about Floyd and Lyn’s fling, but the actress playing her seems so disinterested and the plot line is beyond stupid for Floyd.

Not to mention that Floyd is acting like a teenager without agency that is just experimenting just for the heck of it. It looks like Hollywood found a new theme: they did the gay thing in the 90s early 2000s, then they spent the last few years doing the transgender thing. Now it is polyamorous, mixed with the bisexual thing. I think that pop culture is really important to bring things that are seen as controversial to light, to humanize oppressed groups (because so many are still seen as not quite regular people) and to educate. But the way TV shows are doing things is not education and it just feels like they are ticking boxes on  a list they need to fulfill. It is boring, specially when you have some knowledge or understanding of the "cause of the season" (I don't know much about polyamory, do know more than the average person about the other identities I mentioned)

[rove4]

They couldn't just let Max and Helen be happy together for five minutes.  *sigh*  And this is all for nothing because I don't really believe that either actor is planning to leave the show.

Reynolds just needs to let go of that whole relationship mess.  Unless he's truly ready to share his lover with another man...and all that that entails...then he just needs to let it go.  There's no chemistry there anyway, IMO. 

C'mon Bloom. You're smarter than that.  

Iggy needs Dr. Kapoor.  😢 

[KaveDweller]

I can't believe they had Max and Helen get together at the end of last season only to start trying to split them up five minutes into this season? Most shows gives couples at least a couple episodes of happiness. And clearly Max isn't moving to London. Unless Helen is actually leaving the show, this seems silly. I don't understand the logic behind the writers decision.

I did really like the deaf doctor Max was interviewing. I'd watch a show about her. I assume that's who Max was talking about as a replacement for himself. She seemed way more competent then any other doctor on this show.

[bros402]

15 hours ago, ams1001 said:

He did visit her in prison; not sure they explained how they justified the field trip to the hospital. As someone else pointed out, I guess the FDNY/NYPD knows nothing about arson investigation. 🤷🏻‍♀️ In the end he said they were going to treat her at the hospital and wanted volunteers among his group of residents to take on the challenge because he doesn't see patients anymore.

Yeah, I have no idea how they justified that. And, well, after the second explosion (since that was not just a fire), the FBI/ATF would've been there because that would've been assumed to be a terrorist attack until proven otherwise - and they have offices right in NY, or if they are busy they have offices right across the river in Newark!.

2 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I did really like the deaf doctor Max was interviewing. I'd watch a show about her. I assume that's who Max was talking about as a replacement for himself. She seemed way more competent then any other doctor on this show.

I very much liked the deaf doctor. The one thing this show does right is representation - they have the chief resident who is the little person without drawing attention to it, they have had patients with disabilities who are presented somewhat decently, they even portrayed young adult cancer decently! That's one thing this show has over The Good Doctor - authentic feeling representation without putting a flashing neon sign... well, except with Bloom and her relationship

[OLynn33]

Finally got to try and watch this show. I say try because I couldn't hear the dialogue over the damn music! I'm done. I'm out.

[tinderbox]

This is the first season I didn't record the show but I  felt compelled to come here today to see if things improved from last season and what I missed.  Looks like I did the right thing.  The show is still a mess.   I cannot believe New Amsterdam wasn't cancelled.  

[KittenPokerCheater]

The sound crew/supervisor need to be either fired or be given mandatory classes on Mixing.  This was going on last season but this episode seems even worse.  Did they hire someone even more inept to replace them?

[OLynn33]

7 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

The sound crew/supervisor need to be either fired or be given mandatory classes on Mixing.  This was going on last season but this episode seems even worse.  Did they hire someone even more inept to replace them?

Right?! It's so frustrating. How is anyone associated with the production of this show not (not) hearing what we are? A PA could notice this! I mean if they need an example of how to properly incorporate music into a show watch Alias.

[bros402]

10 hours ago, tinderbox said:

This is the first season I didn't record the show but I  felt compelled to come here today to see if things improved from last season and what I missed.  Looks like I did the right thing.  The show is still a mess.   I cannot believe New Amsterdam wasn't cancelled.  

Come on, hate watch it with us!

9 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

The sound crew/supervisor need to be either fired or be given mandatory classes on Mixing.  This was going on last season but this episode seems even worse.  Did they hire someone even more inept to replace them?

Yeah, seriously - the music is just so... distracting. In the first season, the jazz was inserted so badly that it was just distressing - I could've done better if I had been sat in front of a computer with a few youtube tutorials up!

[ams1001]

33 minutes ago, SilverLake0315 said:

On topic: am I the only one who just doesn’t care about the Max/Helen relationship? I’ve never been into it 🤷‍♀️

Nope. I find it difficult to care about anyone's relationship at this point.

[Whimsy]

All the comments about Chicago Med have been removed. This isn’t the place to talk about a completely different show. 

[knitorpurl]

On 9/23/2021 at 7:17 AM, Jillybean said:

Yesssss. I don't have any hearing issues and really could barely discern any of the dialogue in the first 10-15 minutes. The music was fine but it should be background music. Don't drown out the dialogue!

Same here. I immediately started hitting the sound quality buttons for my sound bar; turns out the "sports" setting helped a little bit not enough to really hear. 

Not sure I can make it through another season. All the characters have become ridiculous parodies. My eyes can only roll so hard!

[Leeds]

On 9/22/2021 at 7:29 AM, cathmed said:

Precisely - couldn't agree more!   After 3 years of WTWT, they  skip over showing a real relationship between them and just go to London??  After making fans wait 3 months, with a 180 turn, in the wrong direction--imo, for Sharpwin?   Made zero sense.   No need to rehash Bloom (unprofessional/unethical and really didn't care for the lesbian angle--why couldn't they just have been friends?), Reynolds (lost all integrity/self-respect) and Iggy (incompetent, gullible and easily manipulated) as I feel the same about their situations/characters.  I don't' know where the hell the writers are going this season or why this path.  Everything I've read states the actors are not leaving the show.  Appears fans are in for a very bumpy and unpredictable ride this season.  I hope I'm wrong and this Sharpwin is resolved quickly; fans just may leave if it isn't.  The heart-soul of this show is about Sharpwin - PERIOD

What's WTWT?

[circumvent]

58 minutes ago, Leeds said:

What's WTWT?

I think it is "Will-They-Won't-They". But I am just guessing because of the context.

[auntiemel]

As a former interpreter, it bugged me that the deaf doc's interpreter wouldn't interpret her cursing. First of all, that's totally against the code of ethics. You aren't a "person" in that moment, speaking your own thoughts and feelings. You are a conduit of information, providing a voice for the person you're interpreting for. You don't get to decide what's distasteful. You convey everything going on in the room to them, and you convey everything that they have said to the room at large. You are not their moral filter. You are there for ONE reason only - to translate ASL to English and vice versa.

It did seem that she and her interpreter knew each other quite well, though. If, for some reason, they had a system worked out between them where he said, for instance, "the s word" instead of "shit" and she was OK with that...that would have been worked out between them well before the meeting. You don't start arguing with your client in the middle of a conversation you're interpreting. The entire POINT of you is that the other people ideally forget you're even there. They talk directly with the deaf (or HOH) person, and the deaf person talks directly back to them. YOU ARE NOT PART OF THE CONVERSATION.

That really bugged me.


***Sidenote - I was interpreting once for a motivational speech that football player Deion Sanders was giving. My client was a nine year old boy. And Deion all of a sudden goes into this story about a threesome he had one time. And he was talking about this girl's boobs, and how the girls were tongue kissing each other and grinding on each other, and making jokes about them taking their clothes off and what their bodies looked like. It was AWKWARD. AS. FUCK. And in NO WAY appropriate for a nine year old kid to be exposed to. But you know what I did? I fucking interpreted it! Because every other nine year old kid in that audience heard it, and it's not my job to decide that that deaf nine year old doesn't get to because *I* don't think it's appropriate.

[Trini]

7 hours ago, auntiemel said:

As a former interpreter, it bugged me that the deaf doc's interpreter wouldn't interpret her cursing. First of all, that's totally against the code of ethics.  ...

Wait - did NBC actually air a curse word in ASL?

[auntiemel]

 

2 hours ago, Trini said:

Wait - did NBC actually air a curse word in ASL?

Actually, that's a good point, I wasn't watching her, I was watching him...so either the shot was on him at that moment, or it was a wide shot and I just wasn't watching her. LOL. And I'm not really invested enough to go back and find out. Haha. Maybe I will tomorrow.

[bros402]

4 hours ago, Trini said:

Wait - did NBC actually air a curse word in ASL?

I believe the camera was looking at the interpreter or had her hands blocked by her body at that point

[SnarkySheep]

Ugh...what does it say when it's only the season premiere and I'm annoyed by literally every single character's storyline??

[auntiemel]

42 minutes ago, circumvent said:

I get your point and I totally agree, but if the word choice was "fuck" they had to include that little exchange and the denial to interpret because of the FCC regulations. Not an excuse because they had the choice to not use the word and avoid the whole unethical little exchange. It is a disservice to people who don't know much about ASL and about the work of interpreters.

Absolutely, and I also understand from a storytelling perspective why they would want to include a little exchange to humanize him (the interpreter). If they don't, his presence actually becomes more distracting to the audience because they're wondering who he is, what the rules are, etc.  Giving him a small part of the action lets the audience categorize him in the scene.

In real life, btw, we generally introduce ourselves to the other participants and lay out the etiquette at the beginning of the conversation. Something like, "Hi, I'm Melanie, I'm going to be interpreting for _____ today. I'll be standing slightly behind and to the side of you so that ____ can take in the movement of your lips and my signing simultaneously. I'll also be voicing ____'s responses in the first person, but that's because I'm translating. Everything said is coming from ____, and you should direct all of your statements to him/her. Do you have any questions?"

It takes two minutes and clears up a LOT of confusion right from the jump. But that would be boring to include in a show.

I think my reaction here is just one of those things that happens, like when lawyers watch legal procedurals and get tied up in knots because the attorneys on the show met a client in the morning and were in court by the afternoon. That's not how it's done! LOL.

[circumvent]

19 minutes ago, auntiemel said:

I think my reaction here is just one of those things that happens, like when lawyers watch legal procedurals and get tied up in knots because the attorneys on the show met a client in the morning and were in court by the afternoon. That's not how it's done!

Your reaction is 100% appropriate. We learn with those exchanges. I do the same thing when it is disability related and I am confident I can say something based on what I have learnt from disable people - I am not disabled but my circle of friends is at least 80% made up of disabled activists, and I always make sure I am repeating what they say. 

As for the legal stuff, they are so bad in some shows because are even worse than the Law School of Law and Order

[auntiemel]

6 minutes ago, circumvent said:

Your reaction is 100% appropriate. We learn with those exchanges. I do the same thing when it is disability related and I am confident I can say something based on what I have learnt from disable people - I am not disabled but my circle of friends is at least 80% made up of disabled activists, and I always make sure I am repeating what they say. 

As for the legal stuff, they are so bad in some shows because are even worse than the Law School of Law and Order

I will note that there is one situation that the prevailing wisdom is that the interpreter should soften/censor what is said, which is that white interpreters should never sign or say the n word. Some interpreters fingerspell it, some sign n+word. Some use the intended meaning, such as "bro" or "man." When voicing, they usually say, "the n word" - sometimes with an extra explanation that the deaf client used the actual word.

Even that, though, like I said is controversial. Some black deaf activists argue that they have the right to know what was said uncensored, and formulate the appropriate reaction. If someone they are conversing with says something, it's up to THEM to decide the response, not up to the interpreter to decide to soften it.

However, other black deaf activists argue that there is simply no excuse for a white person to ever use that word, in English or ASL, interpreting or otherwise.

Honestly, I'm glad that situation never came up for me. If I were interpreting for a black client in a situation where it was likely to come up, I would probably have that uncomfortable conversation with them beforehand and ask them what they preferred I do - and then abide by their wishes, no matter how much everything inside me is screaming at me not to say it. Because, honestly, in that situation - they are the deaf person AND the POC, who am I to substitute my white and hearing judgement for theirs? Plus, I am there to serve THEM in that situation, it's not about what makes ME comfortable. However, like I said, I am just *REALLY* glad it never came up because that would have been really painful and uncomfortable to force myself to do.

[auntiemel]

I wanted to follow up on this and say that I talked to a friend of mine who still works as an interpreter. I thought maybe, since I haven't worked professionally in a long time, my take on this was "old fashioned" and there might be a more modern sensibility in the current climate.

(I won't get into a whole detailed explanation, but I will say that I was trained in and worked under what was called the 'communication facilitator' model, but also interpreted for older clients who were still more comfortable with the 'conduit/machine' model, so I often adapted to that as well. What is most in favor today is 'bilingual/bicultural' or 'ally' model, which I never worked in professionally, although I do keep up with the industry and have friends who still work, so I am familiar with the constructs. There is ample information available on Google!).

He said that he does know of a few interpreters who won't interpret curse words for reasons of personal conviction, religious or otherwise, but that those preferences/limits are well hashed out with their agencies and/or the entities they work for, and that they generally would never be sent on a job where it might come up. And if they were, for instance in an emergency situation where a regular interpreter had called in sick and no other interpreters had availability, the client would be made aware of it beforehand and the details would be worked out.

But that, no--under no circumstances would the situation of an interpreter arguing with their client and refusing to interpret what they've signed in the middle of their job interview, right in front their prospective boss, ever happen. 🙂

[tinkerbell]

On 9/21/2021 at 9:07 PM, ams1001 said:

What is with the music? I can barely hear the dialogue.

"Maybe we start that joy thing tomorrow." 😆

 

Thanks, everyone.  I was trying to figure out if it was my tv or my hearing.   I am relieved to know everyone else had the same issue.  Background music needs to be in the background.

The biggest issue I have with this show is that a single father with a demanding job needs to pend non-working hours with his kid. 

[Nessa]

On 9/22/2021 at 12:07 PM, ams1001 said:

What is with the music? I can barely hear the dialogue.

"Maybe we start that joy thing tomorrow." 😆

 

Ditto, I have to turn on subtitles just to "hear" what everyone is saying.

[possibilities]

Iggy is the worst! He stopped seeing patients, so now he's teaching others? So he didn't really face that he's a lousy therapist and he didn't get help for his issues. He's telling himself he was just burned out. And he's telling his students that it's inherent in the job to be burdened and miserable. He's teaching them to follow in his incompetent and unhappy footsteps. AND he thinks it's appropriate to have his students treat the pyromaniac psychopath, when she would need an experienced and highly trained specialist, not what looked to be a resident or intern newly hired and just beginning their clinical work.

I loved the Deaf doctor and I hope we'll see more of her. If the problem with having the interpreter voice whatever profane thing she said is the FCC, they could have bleeped it rather than setting up the argument between her and the interpreter. Or don't create a character who can't get past broadcast standards in the first place. But how they did it, they essentially just went and told all the viewers of the show that interpreters get to censor and it's ha ha, funny, to be laughed off. I hate that. And it undermines the doctor, that she is being infantilized right from the start, and not in charge with the interpreter. He should be fired, and replaced with someone who respects her and gives accurate voice and accurately represents her tone and personality alpong with her technical meaning. I would hav eloved to have her come back, with a different interpreter, and someone asks about this guy and she says she fired him because he was unprofessional, inserted his personal biases, and refused to do his job. But after this episode, where they laughed together about his insubordination, it would be hard to backtrack and do that.

I'm not in the mood for angst, so Iggy and his emo self, and the immediate wrench-throwing at the Helen-Max romance, are not fun for me. Likewise, having the bribe of Damocles hanging over the Layla-Lauren relationship is making me unhappy, as is seeing Floyd all messed up over Lyn.

I liked Lauren and Layla a lot until the whole "residency in WA state, well no, now she's gotten a job with her lover as her boss, and it was probably done with a bribe" debacle. I will admit, it's in character for Lauren. I find the bisexuality totally plausible, and also the bribe and the secrecy about it are well within her character's dysfunction zone. I'm not looking forward to that situation imploding.

Floyd, however, is out of character AND irritating. I like the husband, though I think he should stop pressuring people in the office to talk about their personal lives if they don't want to, and should definitely not give advice about a situation he hasn't been asked to give advice about and doesn't know the details of at all. I find Lyn annoying. And Floyd needs to get a grip and stop being so needy and weird. Just let it go, like an adult, and move on.

Where is Dr Kao? I was starting to really like her. I also wish they hadn't ditched Ella when Kapoor left.