S02.E17: Heart

[DittyDotDot]

Sam and Dean track down a werewolf that has made San Francisco its hunting ground

 

 

_______________________________________

 

 

Overall, not an episode I care much about. I really hate the whole trope of boy-meets-girl-and-instantly-is-in-love-but-tragically-she's-a-monster-and-boy-must-then-kill-girl-to-save-the-world (yeah, I'm pretty sure it's a thing). Add on the mawkish level of angst and I'm basically out. I get that most of the story is really about how Sam thinks he might be a monster and saving Madison would be hope that he can be saved, but didn't (and apparently still don't) care for the heavy-handedness.  Plus, didn't really feel many sparks between Sam and Madison, nor did I find that sex scene was all that sexy or hot. (I suited up for the rotten tomatoes so go ahead and do your worst, seriously, I'm ready! ;) ) I also didn't get why there was sympathy for Madison because she didn't know what was happening to her, but they didn't seem all that concerned about Glenn, who apparently was in the same boat. Just because you want to sleep with the hot chick, doesn't mean the goofy guy down the hall is more worthy of being dead, IMO. It could have been a really fascinating discussion about what makes a monster a monster, instead it feels like one of those Sweet Valley High books my friends read when we were 12-years-old. ::looks around nervously and coughs:: Of course, I wouldn't know much about those things, other than what my friends told me. ;)

 

There are some moments I actually do like (other than the direction of Kim Manners, because that's kind of a given with me)...as I said before, Rock-Paper-Scissors amuses me more than it has a right to; Sam being all uncomfortable and awkward at Madison's and Dean knowing that's what was happening was nice; and I also liked that they followed through with killing Madison because they didn't have any other choice. The job is a hard and sometimes they're going to need to make some tough calls and at the time, there were no other options. Of course they worked pretty hard to make this be a null and void situation recently, but since it's one of the few things that actually worked for me, I'm keeping it anyway.

[AwesomO4000]

I have mixed feelings about this one, but there were some things that I did like. I agree with you about the trope, but I did see some of why Sam fell for Madison. He was obviously projecting, but I think he also admired her strength and her willingness to try to take a bad event and use it to turn her life around.

 

I thought both Jensen and Jared did a great job in that last scene - sort of like how they did their best with "Croatoan." It could have easily been way over the top, but I think they both did a good job with putting emotion into it without it getting too bad. "Silent Lucidity" was perfect, in my opinion. I felt for both Sam and Dean here. I could see why Sam felt that he had to be the one, but I also felt bad for Dean that he wanted to shield Sam from that, and he couldn't... Same as usual for Dean - he wants to protect everyone, and sometimes he just can't.

 

I also didn't get why there was sympathy for Madison because she didn't know what was happening to her, but they didn't seem all that concerned about Glenn, who apparently was in the same boat. Just because you want to sleep with the hot chick, doesn't mean the goofy guy down the hall is more worthy of being dead, IMO.

 

 

I'm not sure that Dean really knew that Glenn also didn't know what he was either at that point. When Dean killed him, to me, he seemed surprised that Glen didn't know what was going on. And then Dean was truly unsettled and disturbed that Glenn didn't know and that he'd killed him. Dean even remarked to Sam about Glen not knowing in the car and mentioned how sad it was when Glenn died. I actually thought that Dean thought the werewolf did know - that maybe Madison didn't know because she was "new" rather than all werewolves didn't know - so I felt that there was an attempt to show sympathy for Glenn as well, but I'm perhaps not remembering the sequence of events correctly... since I tend to mostly remember the ending part from Glenn's death to the end. (I also get distracted by half-naked, muscled Sam... which I won't say is entirely my fault. Though I do wish they would've filmed that not so close so it wouldn't be so, I don't know, claustrophobic maybe? And less choppy? Though apparently the two bunnies went at it for a while, based on the number of position changes... which I must admit is impressive considering they had no sleep the night before (proving Dean is right, and that Sammy really did need to get laid more often)... so I guess that's where all the quick cuts had to come in to save time in the scene. But I liked it much better than the Dean/Anna scene, so there is that. Also nice that Sam found a fellow biter - but kinda... interesting or maybe just intuitive that Dean knows that about Sam. Maybe they share info? Guess upon reflection, I found the scene more sexy than you did ;) )

 

instead it feels like one of those Sweet Valley High books my friends read when we were 12-years-old. ::looks around nervously and coughs:: Of course, I wouldn't know much about those things, other than what my friends told me. ;)

 

Heh. I think when we were 12 - or at least by 13 anyway -  my friends had already graduated to Harlequin Romances which I did not read. I read part of one and that was enough for me - and I truly think those things warped my friends' minds. Seriously - it was like porn for tween girls.

[Demented Daisy]

it feels like one of those Sweet Valley High books my friends read when we were 12-years-old. ::looks around nervously and coughs:: Of course, I wouldn't know much about those things, other than what my friends told me. ;)

 

 

I'm sure you only read them (if at all) because your friends did and you wanted to join in the discussion.  My friends roped me into reading Twilight, so I feel your pain.  :-)

 

Seriously - it was like porn for tween girls.

 

 

*giggle snort*  So was Twilight.  Except mine was smart enough to stop before she got even halfway through with the first book.  *single tear*  I'm so proud of my little girl.

 

Right.  The episode.  Not one of my favorites.  Hell, not even fond of it much, except for "Silent Lucidity", as @AwesomO4000 mentioned.  

[catrox14]

I pretty much hate this episode. I love the actress that played Madison.  But gods, I wanted to hork through most of it. I liked the closing scene with Dean looking on at Sam and being broken hearted for him.  That's it.

[GirlyGeek]

There are some moments I actually do like (other than the direction of Kim Manners, because that's kind of a given with me)...as I said before, Rock-Paper-Scissors amuses me more than it has a right to; Sam being all uncomfortable and awkward at Madison's and Dean knowing that's what was happening was nice; and I also liked that they followed through with killing Madison because they didn't have any other choice. The job is a hard and sometimes they're going to need to make some tough calls and at the time, there were no other options. Of course they worked pretty hard to make this be a null and void situation recently, but since it's one of the few things that actually worked for me, I'm keeping it anyway.

 

This is a prime example of an episode I watch for certain scenes.  Overall, not my favorite,  but there are scenes that get to me in different ways, so it always makes the cut onto the list of episodes I like (even though I don't like a good portion of it!)  Strange

Rock, paper, scissors originated here, and I still love it!  Dean's "Awwww, Sammy" is adorable.  Jared's delivery of that final scene is great, and Jensen plays the hell out of being devastated for Sam.  Love it, even if its a little... intense.  And the song is a fantastic choice.

On a side note (and this is big, since I'm a Dean-girl), Jared looks fantastic in this episode.  Its probably the best hair of all seasons IMO, his big grins and boyish charm is so cute here (especially during the scene where Sam and Madison are watching tv).  Just cuteness all around.

Jensen/Dean is awesome and beautiful as usual... goes without saying of course. ;)

BUT, I don't like how they handled werewolves and the lore.  And I just can't buy that this Madison chick, who's fairly well adjusted and normal, decides she's A-OK with being shot in her own apartment, less than 24 hours after learning she's a werewolf.  No bargaining, no trying to make it work?  No I want to live, I'm too young to die?  No I could lock myself down and be OK?  How about the fact that she'd have another 30 days or so to try and figure out a miracle fix/system of keeping others safe/etc before the next full moon?

No?  Really??  Instead she agrees that they boy she just met and slept with should shoot her?  Does she have no one she'd like to say good bye to or spend another day with?  Really?!

Its like they said, 'well we don't have time for more character development or making this a tad more realistic cause there's only 5 minutes left in the episode... so let's have Madison be really understanding about being killed".

Do.not.like.  

:)

[DittyDotDot]

GirlyGeek, on 20 Feb 2015 - 8:10 PM, said:

Its like they said, 'well we don't have time for more character development or making this a tad more realistic cause there's only 5 minutes left in the episode... so let's have Madison be really understanding about being killed".

Do.not.like.  :)

 

Well, then we would've had to lose the nooky. ;) 

 

I agree the episode felt very rushed with regards to Madison. It really made no sense to me that they had to kill her on that particular day since the lunar cycle was finished and they could've taken a whole other month to do some research and be certain there was no other option. However, maybe it was kinder to just do the deed rather than give her false hopes and stretch out the inevitable. Now that you point it out, it does seem weird that she had no one to say goodbye to though.

Edited February 22, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[DittyDotDot]

I've been thinking about this episode since yesterday and this morning I realized why. I once had a notion they should try and do an episode where the boys had to stick around in one place for more than a few days. I never knew why they would stick around, but thought it would be interesting to see them settle into a community for a period of time. This would've been a perfect opportunity for them to stick to the same place for a whole month. Doing research by day; Sam and Madison doing other stuff by night and Dean going absolutely stir crazy from sitting still for so long. I think it would've helped with that whole trope problem I had with Sam and Madison's instant love and it could've also helped with Madison asking Sam to kill her and I think the angst at the end could've felt more earned. Not that it matters much at this point, but just something I  was thinking about.

[supposebly]

That's a great idea! Of course now, with the bunker, the whole idea that Dean would go stir-crazy is kinda moot since he "nested". But before teh bunker, that would have been interesting, and as, you said, the end would have been earned.

[lmdreamer]

This episode made me mad.  I was spoiled by buffy the vampire slayer and being human so when dean kept saying they had to kill her, I kept saying, "why?" They could have found her a secure place to lock herself in during those three days now that she knew.  Even later when they figured out the change only happened at night during the full moon while she was sleeping I was like "could this be avoided with a simple lifestyle change, maybe some caffeine pills, idk?"  They barely tried and of course later episodes made Madison's death even more senseless than it already was. I actually like that anime version of this episode better.  In that version a fully turned madison attacked sam forcing him to shoot her in self-defense.

[CocoaGoddess]

I used to have bittersweet feelings for this episode (it's airing right now, which is why I'm commenting on it), and I thought the actress who played Madison had insane chemistry with Sam. Ten seasons later, it just feels like a massive waste of a potentially good character and a kind of bastardization of the lycan lore on this show, knowing what we know now. I agree, this definitely should have been a mini arc with the boys sticking around for a couple of episodes, working to come up with a solution to save her. 

 

I don't know why I watch the older episodes, it just continues to rile me up that they have eliminated so many awesome side characters and actors. And worse, they're still doing it. 

[sarthaz]

Agree with most of the comments.  Vaugier is excellent as Madison, and there's genuine chemistry with her and Sam.  What stands out at this point in my rewatch is how most of these early episodes have amazing guest stars who turn in wonderful performances.  Latter seasons are all about recurring characters and disposable bad guys. Also, as Dean's tear drops and Silent Lucidity swells in the background, I'm totally lamenting my decision to binge this on Netflix (for convenience), because I completely cheated myself out of all all the great music that had to be replaced in Season 1.  Stupid me.

[Dobian]

I also liked the episode but thought they rushed to a conclusion.  Sure, they were never going to find a cure for lycnathropy, they're monster hunters not miracle workers.  But how about work out some arrangement where she could live but  be voluntarily contained each full moon?  They did this with Oz on Buffy.  And I would think that Madison's survival instinct would be strong enough where she wouldn't so quickly submit to letting herself be offed liked that.  Plus I have a soft spot for werewolves.  To me they're just a wild predator.  When a wolf takes down a deer in the woods, it's just doing it's job, lol.

 

I didn't know that about the season 1 soundtrack.  That's disappointing.  At least the other seasons have the original music I guess.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Dobian

[sarthaz]

... a single man tear ...

[bethy]

48 minutes ago, sarthaz said:

... a single man tear ...

So beautiful.

[Hanahope]

So, (1) did she really fall asleep while tied to a chair?  and (2) do full moons last 4 nights?  Not to mention (for glen) how do you wake up several times month without clothes on in a strange area and not wonder wtf is going on?

[bettername2come]

"After we kill it, we can go to Disneyland." - Ah, beginning of the episode Sammy. So young, so innocent.

Dean saying "dogfaced boy" gave me a desire to rewatch Dark Angel and see Alec and Joshua again. 

Sam and Madison were cute. I love his enthusiasm as he gets hooked on the soap opera. God, his smile when he talks to her. Jared reaches peak attractiveness in this episode. God, he's so cute when he smiles and when he looks sad, and with the scratches on his face and the sex scene when he's sleeping there afterwards all shirtless and sculpted and content.

Poor Madison. She wakes up injured, her pajamas missing, and suddenly the cute guy she was flirting with the night before is waving a gun and ties her up. Then she discovers she's a monster and just when she thinks it's cured, bam, her new cute guy has to kill her so she won't hurt anyone else. I applaud you, Madison. You were a great chick of the week. 

And Dean, such a protective big brother, trying to protect Sam from having to kill someone he cares about and being an adorable shipper who just wants his little brother to get laid.

The giantest man tears the show has ever scene. It's actually a double man tear!

[catrox14]

On 5/24/2017 at 3:14 PM, bettername2come said:

Dean saying "dogfaced boy" gave me a desire to rewatch Dark Angel and see Alec and Joshua again

Honest to Gods, I want to see Jensen reprise Alec in a Dark Angel update. I LOVED Alec. He was so great.

[Iju]

ARUUUUGH!!!! F THIS SHOW!!!!!! so much to talk about, okay i'll just start from the beginning...

sam acting like a virgin in the room with madison was so cute. and when dean called and said "Let me guess, you're on the couch and you can't think of anything to say." spot on! 

i didn't really care for the girl until i saw how much sam cared for her and how much in pain he was when they said there was no cure (oh i had an idea the christian dude was the werewolf).

when dean left them and madison said "I bet he thinks you're getting laid" i thought it was a perfect situation for sam to say "He always wants me to get laid."

and the love scene i lowkey expected for madison to "turn", lmao. when that didn't happen i couldn't help grinning and ruining the scene because i could imagine dean being happy for him that his little bro was finally getting laid.

jared again good acting with his crying at the end. i was already near in tears. and when dean jumped when sam shot madison (well done on jensen's acting as well), i had to swallow a scream. for sure he was thinking what if he had to do that to sam one day? i really loved this episode, i was an emotional mess. i was even considering quitting the show! lol

Edited March 2, 2018 by Iju

[jay741982]

Really liked this episode. Sam and Madison were cute and it was sad how it ended. I had known of the Song "Silent Lucidity" before this episode and this episode was the first time Listened to it. Made it go to YouTube and listen to it In full and love the song so thanks Supernatural for that 

[Katy M]

On ‎8‎/‎1‎/‎2014 at 8:30 AM, DittyDotDot said:

but they didn't seem all that concerned about Glenn,

Dean was trying to be nice to him as he lay dying.  It's not like they knew that it was Glenn before Dean went out looking.  And, they probably would have had a harder time trying to figure out who bit him.

[The Companion]

On 2/20/2015 at 8:10 PM, GirlyGeek said:

This is a prime example of an episode I watch for certain scenes.  Overall, not my favorite,  but there are scenes that get to me in different ways, so it always makes the cut onto the list of episodes I like (even though I don't like a good portion of it!)  Strange

Rock, paper, scissors originated here, and I still love it!  Dean's "Awwww, Sammy" is adorable.  Jared's delivery of that final scene is great, and Jensen plays the hell out of being devastated for Sam.  Love it, even if its a little... intense.  And the song is a fantastic choice.

On a side note (and this is big, since I'm a Dean-girl), Jared looks fantastic in this episode.  Its probably the best hair of all seasons IMO, his big grins and boyish charm is so cute here (especially during the scene where Sam and Madison are watching tv).  Just cuteness all around.

Jensen/Dean is awesome and beautiful as usual... goes without saying of course. 😉

BUT, I don't like how they handled werewolves and the lore.  And I just can't buy that this Madison chick, who's fairly well adjusted and normal, decides she's A-OK with being shot in her own apartment, less than 24 hours after learning she's a werewolf.  No bargaining, no trying to make it work?  No I want to live, I'm too young to die?  No I could lock myself down and be OK?  How about the fact that she'd have another 30 days or so to try and figure out a miracle fix/system of keeping others safe/etc before the next full moon?

No?  Really??  Instead she agrees that they boy she just met and slept with should shoot her?  Does she have no one she'd like to say good bye to or spend another day with?  Really?!

Its like they said, 'well we don't have time for more character development or making this a tad more realistic cause there's only 5 minutes left in the episode... so let's have Madison be really understanding about being killed".

Do.not.like.  

🙂

On 2/23/2015 at 7:57 AM, DittyDotDot said:

I've been thinking about this episode since yesterday and this morning I realized why. I once had a notion they should try and do an episode where the boys had to stick around in one place for more than a few days. I never knew why they would stick around, but thought it would be interesting to see them settle into a community for a period of time. This would've been a perfect opportunity for them to stick to the same place for a whole month. Doing research by day; Sam and Madison doing other stuff by night and Dean going absolutely stir crazy from sitting still for so long. I think it would've helped with that whole trope problem I had with Sam and Madison's instant love and it could've also helped with Madison asking Sam to kill her and I think the angst at the end could've felt more earned. Not that it matters much at this point, but just something I  was thinking about.

Agree with all of this. Madison was written really strangely and unrealistically so that the plot could be moved forward and I think having them try to save her for some period of time and then having Sam shoot her would have been a huge improvement. Instead it was like, welp we made one call and it didn't help so I guess it's time to shoot you. Not to mention the weirdness with the way she casually mentions her stalker and seems not a bit phased by her boss's gross advances. I mean, he literally used his position in an attempt to get her alone (also, wtf Madison's friends or co workers for laughing this off). She wasn't a character, she was a walking plot point. 

Meanwhile, poor Dean just wanted an uncomplicated werewolf hunt. Poor guy.

[Katy M]

9 minutes ago, The Companion said:

seems not a bit phased by her boss's gross advances.

Well, she did kill him.

[The Companion]

4 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Well, she did kill him.

Yeah in werewolf form but at the bar she is just like: "oh you, I already called you a cab." 

[Katy M]

10 minutes ago, The Companion said:

Yeah in werewolf form but at the bar she is just like: "oh you, I already called you a cab." 

I probably would have done the same thing. Honestly, he seemed like was more of a nuisance than a serious harasser.  She even said something about that he was nice, but after a couple of drinks he'd hit on anyone.  Simple solution would be to drink somewhere besides your boss's favorite bar.  That's a good policy anyway.

[The Companion]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I probably would have done the same thing. Honestly, he seemed like was more of a nuisance than a serious harasser.  She even said something about that he was nice, but after a couple of drinks he'd hit on anyone.  Simple solution would be to drink somewhere besides your boss's favorite bar.  That's a good policy anyway.

Definitely a good policy. He tried to get her alone by using his position as her boss. At a minimum, I would have talked about what a skeeze he was when he left. 😆

As an aside, do you remember all these details off the top of your head? I am so impressed.

[Katy M]

18 minutes ago, The Companion said:

As an aside, do you remember all these details off the top of your head? I am so impressed.

I do because I've seen all the episodes S1-7 anyway like 10 times each.  I have a sickness:)  Although sometimes I won't be quite sure, so I'll look up the transcript.  If I give an exact quote, I probably looked it up.  If I've parapharased it's probably off the top of my head.

[The Companion]

5 hours ago, Katy M said:

I do because I've seen all the episodes S1-7 anyway like 10 times each.  I have a sickness:)  Although sometimes I won't be quite sure, so I'll look up the transcript.  If I give an exact quote, I probably looked it up.  If I've parapharased it's probably off the top of my head.

That is impressive. I am a Whovian and I have rewatched certain episodes so many times, it is embarrassing, so nothing but respect over here. 😊