S05.E06: And the Two Partners Had a Fight...

[Cranberry]

Quote

When Reddick/Lockhart associates start posting anonymous hate messages about Julius and Diane on a new interoffice app, Diane's name partner position at the firm is once again questioned. At home, Diane grapples with her marriage after learning Kurt is considering a job offer from the NRA. Meanwhile, Wackner goes to real court to have his approach and sanity questioned.

Original air date: July 29, 2021

[txhorns79]

Do I really think Diane is going to speak as a leader at a black law firm at a black lawyer's association function about how to create more opportunities for black lawyers?  No.  She isn't stupid and she would know immediately that the optics of that were not going to be favorable for her.  Having said that, I liked the tension in the episode, and the split forming between Liz and Diane.  It's not an issue that can be easily resolved and I'm curious to see where they go with it.  

I'm not sure why the show keeps mining the well of having the characters interact with famous dead people, but I did appreciate the Diane/Justice Ginsburg talk as it related to she and Kurt.    

I also wonder how much Jesse Tyler Ferguson enjoyed getting to say the F word and showing off his butt after years on Modern Family. 

[Roseanna]

7 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I'm not sure why the show keeps mining the well of having the characters interact with famous dead people, but I did appreciate the Diane/Justice Ginsburg talk as it related to she and Kurt.

I don't think that Ginzburg's relationship with her colleague can be compared with Diane's marriage. Friendship is different than marriage.

Even more wrong was IMO (fictional) Ginzburg's answer that she wouldn't have resigned although she would be sure that Obama would appoint a black justice, because she couldn't be sure if he/she would be as good she knew herself was and one must choose certainty before uncertainty. But the real uncertainty was: who would be the next president. Thus, the only way to guarantee certainty for the issues was resign in time.

[Quark]

This season has just been one glorious episode after another. I'm just loving it. The storylines are great, it's superbly written and the acting is just a class of it's own.

[cardigirl]

I'm wondering who sent the goons to hurt Jesse Tyler Ferguson's character enough to make him pay out the $3 million.  Suddenly that fake court is looking kind of dangerous. 

I enjoyed Diane's moral dilemma, and I think all women would be struck by it. We've been asked to stand aside so much and now once again she was being asked to step back from something she had earned so another underserved group could have a better opportunity.  Maybe the way she went about it was not great, and it looks like she lost a friend, but I understand the disappointment she was feeling at being asked to step away.

And the interoffice chat system would not be tolerated anywhere at all.  I don't know if Slack allows you to sign in anonymously but no email system I know of is anonymous.  The corporation owns access to your business correspondence and your chat system as well. 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by cardigirl

[marny]

Are we supposed to believe that none of these professionals knows how to put their phones on silent or vibrate?

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, marny said:

Are we supposed to believe that none of these professionals knows how to put their phones on silent or vibrate?

I'd take it a step farther.  Are we supposed to believe that the same firm where Liz immediately fired three lawyers for using a slur about Hispanics in the last episode is going to allow the continued use of "Donk" after one of the lawyers called Julius a slur for black people? 

[NutMeg]

This show is brilliant, this season more than ever. Despite unlikely hijinks, like Diane representing the firm at that panel, it still manages to be both crazy and relatable. The brilliant posters who posted before me already made excellent points, so I'll just add what was not said yet:

- it's been in all episodes so far and I wasn't a fan at first, but the idea of this parallel, disrupting court is growing on me. I like the idea of a forum where an arbitration is available for free at a time when hiring a lawyer or suing with cause is too expensive for people who might need it the most. I also liking the "disguising" of the parties, even if it didn't make sense this episode because we a video of the plaintiff was shown in "court";

- the office app is bonkers but so reflective of office culture, and of the way well-intentioned initiatives can end up being extremely time consuming, distracting from the work that needs to be done, and produce unintended consequences;

- loved Diane's evening of woes with classical music at high volume and brandy; (also her convos with RBG, or rather her view of what her convos with RBG would be like)

- diverging political views amongst friends or lovers used to be a interesting topic for (sometimes heated) debate, but the chasm that has built up makes it much harder to overcome, and it's a rare show that goes there (or maybe there are more that I'm unaware of - please let me know if that's the case); 

- absolutely loved the Liz/Diane conversation at the bar. This work relation which has the potential to become a real friendship between two clever women who respect each other and are willing to talk about serious issues without sugarcoating them is definitely something I will always want more of. (For those who watched the Good Wife, there was so much potential there too once, and it all went to dust.) I fully get where each of the two is coming from, and I very eagerly don't want a chasm to build up between them. 

[Roseanna]

18 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I enjoyed Diane's moral dilemma, and I think all women would be struck by it. We've been asked to stand aside so much and now once again she was being asked to step back from something she had earned so another underserved group could have a better opportunity.  Maybe the way she went about it was not great, and it looks like she lost a friend, but I understand the disappointment she was feeling at being asked to step away.

I think there is a problem in this show: we know and like Diane, so it's easy and natural to sympathize her, but those who demand that the firm should be "black", are only the nameless group that speak anonymously. When they also slander Julius, it just seems mobbing (I don't like his political opinions, but it's just ugly how he is persecuted for them).

I think formerly when Liz' father visited the firm the crux of the matter was shown better: whether the firm is "idealist" or is it a firm like others. Diane who had brought big firms clearly represent the second alternative, although there is also an idealistic streak in her.

On the other hand, the rebels clearly forgot that they can't have it both ways. And as David Lee showed, the decision isn't even made inside the firm.  

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Roseanna
adding a word

[showme]

yawn! This show has become boring, it is a gradual decline, but now it is obvious. All these political messaging and posturing makes a very dull show. Where are the intriguing legal cases? Where are the clever legal maneuvers? I am losing interest of this show.  

[jada]

Diane taking advice from her right wing husband ....woo chile! #mess #mess #mess 

"RBG" telling the story about having to step aside for  men, it not the same as the optics of a white woman and a black firm. You can tell this show is mostly written by white people.  What of the black women? Do they not deserve things? They have had to step aside for white men and white women. 

The white client asking "who is she?! about a black female senior partner - yikes! All the white clients who are more comfortable with having a white lawyer.  And it is really messed up that none of the other partners have any kind of back story or character development like we had with other partners at "Lockhart, Gardner". 

Diane was definitely being a snake with the way she told her clients about her "step down" chicken. 

And a white man decides the way forward., calling it a "race war"...smh.

Quiet as its kept, I can see why this show lost a lot of its original black cast members. 

to be honest, I'm not sure why I'm still watching this show. 

Edited July 31, 2021 by jada

[akr]

On 7/30/2021 at 6:47 AM, cardigirl said:

I'm wondering who sent the goons to hurt Jesse Tyler Ferguson's character enough to make him pay out the $3 million.  Suddenly that fake court is looking kind of dangerous. 

I suspect the wealthy benefactor. He was centered in the shots of the spectators in Wackner's courtroom at the end, with him giving a slow clap and a nod of satisfaction in the midst of the applause in the last shot. Then they cut from him to Marissa, looking as though she's pretty sure she's figured out the connection. Wackner, however, does not seem to have put it all together. 

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, akr said:

I suspect the wealthy benefactor.

I would think it was him.  Didn't they suggest in the real court they would start looking at his finances and holdings to see if there was potential bias with his financing of Wackner?

5 hours ago, jada said:

 

Diane was definitely being a snake with the way she told her clients about her "step down" chicken. 

It's an interesting situation.  Diane certainly knew what she was doing, and it appears to have cost her, her alliance and friendship with Liz.  I'm curious if we will see it further blow up in Diane's face down the road.     

[Joimiaroxeu]

Timely episode, given that the originator of the #savagechallenge on TikTok just got a copyright approved on the dance she created.

"Coon." Ehhh, I would've gone with "house Negro." More shock value.😉

Liz finally realized she got used by the Wayne Brady character. I was surprised to see they were even still together. He must seriously be putting it on her.

GhostRBG, no. That said, I think the firm's Black partners and other Black lawyers have some valid arguments about Diane's position as a named partner. However, until and unless they start losing business because of it, IMO they should shut up and remember who ultimately is paying their salaries.

TMW the man you're fcuking screws you in open court. 😐

Interesting to me how the show has avoided using the term "reverse racism." Maybe that's why they made a point of also showing the non-Black lawyers enthralled by those app messages about Julian and Diane.

I don't know how I feel about that billionaire nutjob apparently putting a hit on the plaintiff in the TikTok case. Now it seems even more like he's using Wackner to run his personal kangaroo court.

[Milburn Stone]

On 7/30/2021 at 12:39 PM, NutMeg said:

- it's been in all episodes so far and I wasn't a fan at first, but the idea of this parallel, disrupting court is growing on me. I like the idea of a forum where an arbitration is available for free at a time when hiring a lawyer or suing with cause is too expensive for people who might need it the most.

Loving the season, including the fake court, but we've seen people of means use it and I can't understand why. It would be great if you knew the judge would be rational, reasonable, and as impartial as humanly possible--and it appears Judge Wachner is--but what if you get a judge who's none of those things? You would want to appeal his decision! And the fake court does not hold out the possibility of successful appeal.

I would say I'd watch Elaine May read the phone book, except that's not saying anything, because Elaine May would make the phone book hilarious and everyone would watch it. (I'm purposely avoiding the "there are no phone books" observation.)

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Milburn Stone

[Ms Blue Jay]

I really like this show in general, but this episode focusing on Diane was a huge letdown after the last episode focusing on Jay and Covid which I thought was incredibly powerful and well done.

[wendyg]

On 8/5/2021 at 1:25 PM, Milburn Stone said:

I would say I'd watch Elaine May read the phone book, except that's not saying anything, because Elaine May would make the phone book hilarious and everyone would watch it. (I'm purposely avoiding the "there are no phone books" observation.)

Do you mean Jane Curtin, who played the judge?

PS: I do have to admire this show's consistency. Way, way back at the beginning of THE GOOD WIFE, Will (Diane's original partner) talked about her periodic paranoia.

Edited August 7, 2021 by wendyg

[Milburn Stone]

49 minutes ago, wendyg said:

Do you mean Jane Curtin, who played the judge?

No.

[statsgirl]

Elaine May played Ruth Ginsburg . Fitting.

[wendyg]

Oh! I didn't recognize her and didn't see her on the cast  list.

[Hanahope]

On 7/30/2021 at 5:18 AM, Roseanna said:

I don't think that Ginzburg's relationship with her colleague can be compared with Diane's marriage. Friendship is different than marriage.

Even more wrong was IMO (fictional) Ginzburg's answer that she wouldn't have resigned although she would be sure that Obama would appoint a black justice, because she couldn't be sure if he/she would be as good she knew herself was and one must choose certainty before uncertainty. But the real uncertainty was: who would be the next president. Thus, the only way to guarantee certainty for the issues was resign in time.

I was waiting for the question/comment about how Ginsburg's failure to step down ultimately led to ACB and isn't that even worse?

 

On 7/30/2021 at 9:47 AM, cardigirl said:

I'm wondering who sent the goons to hurt Jesse Tyler Ferguson's character enough to make him pay out the $3 million.  Suddenly that fake court is looking kind of dangerous. 

I enjoyed Diane's moral dilemma, and I think all women would be struck by it. We've been asked to stand aside so much and now once again she was being asked to step back from something she had earned so another underserved group could have a better opportunity.  Maybe the way she went about it was not great, and it looks like she lost a friend, but I understand the disappointment she was feeling at being asked to step away.

And the interoffice chat system would not be tolerated anywhere at all.  I don't know if Slack allows you to sign in anonymously but no email system I know of is anonymous.  The corporation owns access to your business correspondence and your chat system as well. 

 

 

Yeah, it has to be Cord who sent the goons, as no one else had the means or really the interest in doing so.  Wackner wouldn't do that, at least based on what we've been told about his character.  But some super rich person whose financial records were about to be looked into.... yeah

 

On 7/30/2021 at 12:49 PM, txhorns79 said:

I'd take it a step farther.  Are we supposed to believe that the same firm where Liz immediately fired three lawyers for using a slur about Hispanics in the last episode is going to allow the continued use of "Donk" after one of the lawyers called Julius a slur for black people? 

Honestly, I can't imagine any lawfirm allowing this kind of app.  its a time suck and a huge distraction, plus really the firm could find out who was who.  if they want to commiserate and bitch, go somewhere else.  

[Hava]

On 7/31/2021 at 8:56 AM, jada said:

"RBG" telling the story about having to step aside for  men, it not the same as the optics of a white woman and a black firm. You can tell this show is mostly written by white people.  What of the black women? Do they not deserve things? They have had to step aside for white men and white women. 

 

This episode was a complete miss for me. It was the epitome of white feminism and lacked awareness that it was such. Using RBG to assuage Diane's guilt about not stepping aside for a black partner felt super disrespectful to RGB's memory. The show is pitting women against black people--completely missing the fact that black women exist!

Also, asking Diane to step aside is not "reverse racism." White people are not a marginalized group. Keeping a black law firm black is a way to elevate black lawyers who are discriminated against in majority-white law firms. 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Hava

[Lorboono]

On 3/18/2022 at 7:21 AM, Hava said:

Also, asking Diane to step aside is not "reverse racism." White people are not a marginalized group. Keeping a black law firm black is a way to elevate black lawyers who are discriminated against in majority-white law firms. 

Then they should never have hired her. They did and made her a name partner because she was capable and brought in big clients. Suddenly bullying her to resign because 'Oops, you aren't black' is racism. 

[Anela]

I’ve enjoyed Mandy Pattinson, but not anymore. I thought he was just doing some good, but this guy with the money  is behind it, and getting people beaten up, to relent in court? Not good.